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SpoilerTV's Weekly Round Table: 57th Edition

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Hello and Welcome to a slightly belated new edition of your favorite Round Table at SpoilerTV! SpoilerTV members featured in this issue are Milo (MJ), Klutzy_girl, Lisa Macklem (LM), Popcultureguy (PC), Laura B, Beth Whitley (BW), Ellys Cartin (EC), Joey Hendrick (JD), Giulia Del Buono (GB), Katherine Meusey, Jamie Coudeville, Angela Niles, Abi Baker (AK), Marko Pekic (MK) and me Yon (YN). You just have to sit back enjoy the read and join the discussion in the comment section down below.

The Big Bang Theory is ending its quite impressive 12 season run this upcoming season. Just in time or far too late?

MK: If you asked me this question last year I would say far overdue. But season 11 had some amazing episodes and the show delivered. 12 seasons are an amazing run and the show had some exceptional seasons. It was different, entertaining and opened a whole new world of comedians. The Revolution of the Nerds.

YN: I'm somewhat immaterial over this. The Big Bang Theory is a show I've dipped in and out of over the years due to the amount of re-runs it gets on TV and obviously to be watching I had to have enjoyed it at one stage, but that was a stage a long time ago. I've never really understood why exactly it was so popular. The character of Raj is an extremely stereotypical, not to mention racist interpretation of an Indian person then his whole 'can't talk to women unless he's drunk and when he does he's a pig' thing got old real quick, Sheldon has to be one of the most annoying characters I've ever watched, Leonard's treatment of Penny at times has left a lot to be desired, Howard was basically a creep for the first few seasons until he was toned down and I guess Bernadette and Amy have been good additions and given the show a bit more of a female voice since it was just Penny beforehand, but storywise and dialogue wise the show has always left a lot to be desired. Having said all of this though I have respect for any show that manages to get past 5 seasons. That's incredibly difficult to do especially in the landscape that we're living in now, so for The Big Bang Theory to get 12 seasons? it's pretty damn good going, and it is always best to end things when you're still on a relative high and a ratings goldmine, rather than disappear with a whimper.

MJ: Far too late. The Big Bang Theory is a show that I have multiple issues with, and what's more, even though I've tried to get into it, it never really won me over. It's lazy and incredibly stupid. Putting aside the issue that having laugh tracks to tell audiences that a joke is supposed to be funny will always be a bad idea, their reliance on tired jokes and offensive stereotypes makes it a show that should have ended way earlier. There are much superior comedies out there that deserve attention much more than The Big Bang Theory does, and to see it ending now is overdue, but welcomed.

LM: I for one will miss this show SO much. It's one of the few comedies that I watch that has managed to re-invent itself and remain fresh and funny. They've let the characters grow. I think the very fact that I will miss it demonstrates that they are ending at about the right time. I'll be interested to see if they take any big risks this season - like addressing some of the really negative fan stuff that's gone on recently. Often I'm most sad to think about missing the characters - but especially the actors once a show ends, but I'm betting all of these super talented actors will be able to find new parts to love them in.

PC: “The Big Bang Theory” is a show I stopped watching regularly, not because it got unbearably bad or anything, just because I’d had my fill, so I do think now’s a good time to end it. And I’m glad it’s ending before, like often happens with long-running shows, cast members started to leave.

BW: I never was a huge TBBT fan but 12 years is impressive for any show and I believe it was still bringing the ratings which is also impressive. I think it is easier for a comedy to go that long than a drama and impossible if the drama is serialized.

EC: I have probably only watched 10 episodes total of The Big Bang Theory, and they never made me laugh or cry or feel good about myself. I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand how it made it this long. But at least fans won't be left hanging or anything.

JD: I've never taken the time to watch the show from the beginning, but nothing I've seen ever remotely made me think I needed to change that. As far as I'm concerned, it's gone on at least 2 times longer than it deserved, so I will be celebrating it's ending the same way I've spent its run: not watching it. But I do wish the best for the fans this season.

Katherine Meusey: Glad we're finally seeing the back end of BBT. I watched it originally but soon became tired of the largely one-dimensional characters. Some have grown, primarily the Sheldon character, but the others seem to have stopped. I'm sure that they'll try and pack everything they can into this last season (maybe Leonard and Penny will have a baby, despite the fact that neither of their characters have expressed a desire to want one; or maybe Raj will find a girlfriend. Who knows, maybe Sheldon and Amy will get pregnant!). Yeah, yawn. Bye!

Jamie Coudeville: I think it's just in time. 12 seasons is a lot but I did enjoy the most recent one, especially the finale so for me it hasn't gotten to the stage where I can't stand it anymore. But I do think it's time to end it. I'm sure the cast is ready to move on as well.

AK: I personally think it's way too late, but I've never been a fan of it. From the network's point of view it's probably about right because it still has huge ratings for a show of it's age but if they end it now it may leave people wanting more and from what I've heard of the show, the characters have gone through a lot of the major life milestones so there might not be much more to cover. It is an astonishing feat that it's gone on this long though.

ABC is going for another reboot! The team surrounding Kenya Barris is putting a Bewitched Reboot in development with a Black lead. Reactions are mixes, especially with the synopsis hitting similar notes like the synopsis of the Charmed reboot. Why are we as viewers afraid of the Big Words like feminism, racism, sexism?

MK: Bewitched was an iconic show and the reboot really needs to deliver to come even close to it. I dont have anything against reboots but they really have to deliver to honor it. Look at the Comic world there are multiple versions of heroes and how their stories are told, so why not have a new take on Bewitched. As for the Big scary words, people on one side wanna watch TV to relax and tune out of the world we live in and mute all those issues. But TV has to be about representation and withening horizonts, showing people, situations and countries we cant experience in our day to day life.

YN: Apparently I really haven't paid any attention to TV in the last week because I know nothing at all about this reboot. I feel like TV Networks have had their heads soaked in criticism over TV being too white or too straight, and now they're attempting to be diverse but without putting any effort in. I'm honestly completely sick of reboots. Sure. I get that when you're in an era of Peak TV sticking with the old and tested is a better money maker than spending money on a brand new idea that could completely and utterly tank, but it's extremely insulting to the audience. We want new ideas to have diversity. I don't wanna be tuning in to some remake of some show from the 80's or whatever that has a black witch, Hispanic husband, and Asian sisters; I want a brand new show. I also think it's about the fact the American audience is extremely conservative, so the minute you start talking feminism, race and sexism, they're already getting a billboard to say WE'RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT, WE'RE GOOD AMERICANS, WE BELIEVE IN EVERYONE. It's just really boring.

MJ: I'm always open to giving new shows a shot even if Reboots seem to be especially common now. The main draw for me will largely be the showrunner over the topic and someone who has an excellent track record like Kenya Barris will register my interest no matter what the subject matter is. I've never seen the original show, but Barris' involvement has earned at least a viewing of the pilot episode when it airs.

LM: I think that Bewitched is too embedded in my childhood for me to be objective about this one. But we shouldn't be afraid of words like racism or feminism. However, we also should look at the original in the context of when it was made and appreciate the fact that the lead character (and her mother) really were feminists for their time. I more object to vilifying the original... But at the end of the day, the original is part of my childhood, and I don't think that I'll watch this reboot.

Laura B: I think that it's not the worse reboot idea I have heard yet, because I could see it being re-imaged for a modern audience and having it work well, given there aren't a lot of situational comedies with a fantastical premise. With that being said, it feels like there is a revival of "witches" going on and it's a bit heavy-handed, but I do think that this has an opportunity to be a little different and it could add the right flavor for somebody who maybe doesn't want the teen-angst of Charmed remake and somebody who maybe will find Sabrina too dramatic/serious. Why are people afraid of words like that? I think it's two fold. I think we have witnessed an audience that honestly is not ready to progress and change scars them, but I also think we have another audience that is quite smart and they feel like "branding" something with those terms is patronizing and defeats the purpose of just accepting people as people and not overtly point out a categorization. I personally think it's a hard thing because on one hand I have friends that want representation and want to know when media is doing so and I have others that just want to it to be "normal".

BW: I think the words they are using in these reboots are being picked apart because they are reboots. I don't think viewers are afraid as much as fans of the original are taking exception to the fact the original may not have done those things. The 'Fierce, Funny, Feminist' thing with Charmed deserved to be picked apart because as I binged the show earlier this year, I found that they did all those things during their run. It did get a lot of attention, so that may have been the point to generate buzz. People may 'hate watch' but they will STILL be watching so who wins? The network.

EC: Most people haven't quite realized the best way to show you don't like a reboot is to not care about it and not protest it. Woke Bewitched will probably get made. The comments I see from people are not so much about it possibly addressing social issues is they are the now familiar "Some things shouldn't be touched" and "You can't top the original". It's an entirely separate existential crisis that reboots/revivals seem to be such a trend right now. But I no longer understand the anger over reboots. The original still exists. Just watch it and pretend the new one doesn't exist. I don't think viewers are afraid of Big Words. Most of these shows were popular decades ago. Their original audiences are older, growing older, feeling irrelevant. They may view reboots as just another way they are being written off. They have nostalgia for the good old days, not so much because they want to say racist and sexist (some do of course), but because those were their glory days. They were young and full of dreams and hope yada yada yada. But, in the end, the reboot doesn't need them to be a success. It just needs to market itself enough to attract a new audience.

Of course, witch shows are something of a trend at the moment. Sabrina, Bewitched, Charmed are all getting reboots. But they are not connected to the original show, so thus they can't either improve or tarnish any elements of the originals. They can be seen as their own thing. And for every Old Witch show so far, there is a New Witch show. See Freeform's Witch Army project "Motherland", which is a very "German" sounding name they might change. See "A Discovery of Witches", the upcoming romantic epic, adapted from a fairly new trilogy of books. No one is forcing anyone to just watch reboots.

JD: I don't have any problem with reboots, other than the inherent lack of fresh ideas for new shows. It's fun to see what the creators attempt to do to change it from the original. If it ends up being terrible it won't suddenly render the original show unwatchable, so I don't understand the negative hubbub of reboots. I do find it odd that we're recycling these established shows for the sake of seeing what they'd look like with actors/actresses of color rather than creating new stories for these groups of people, but that's an entirely separate argument.

Angela Niles: First off, I'm going to say that I fully agree with Ellys' comments regarding people's reactions to all the reboots out there. Yes. Thank you.

Second, it's really funny to me that people get so freaked out about those words, or those issues being discussed on TV. There's a strange thing happening out there where some seem to be acting like TV is just now getting political and are all annoyed by it. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here like, uh, TV shows have been addressing topics like racism, feminism, etc. for decades-and what's more, a lot of them were just as "in your face" about it as many politically-minded shows today are. The original "Bewitched" touched on things like racism and feminism, for cripes' sakes. So it's not surprising, in and of itself, that this reboot would do the same.

That said, I think the biggest reasons people tend to get wary when those topics come up are a) the obvious one: they may not like having whatever views they have on those kinds of issues being called out or questioned, and may disagree with the message; or b) even if they do agree with the show's stances on the issues in and of themselves, some shows can still be rather clumsy/hypocritical/whatever in HOW they address those issues, and that can sometimes dilute and hurt whatever message they're trying to get across. Either that, or, in the case of a reboot, they may dismiss whatever progress the original put forth regarding those issues and act like their take is somehow new. I've noticed that second option seems to be the main concern regarding this "Bewitched" reboot among some out there, and it's a valid concern to have.

I do think, though, that at this point, the best thing for people to do is wait until things become official regarding this reboot (if they do), and then once they have a better idea of how the show will tackle the topics involved (after all, things can change dramatically between the initial show pitch and when the show actually gets filmed), they'll be able to have a better idea of how well, or not, this show will do at tackling important issues.

AK: Part of me is sick of reboots. Mining old material and adding a twist is not new or original in any way BUT the idea of casting POC for roles which were originally played by white people and therefore creating opportunities that weren't there previously is always a good thing. I think some viewers aren't afraid of those words, but it is true that ideas such as feminism and racism are considered dirty words. If a show for example doesn't draw attention to those elements (as in doesn't tout it in a press release) but still shows feminist ideas and race equality then people are usually much more open to it, which doesn't make much sense. When it comes to putting a modern (i.e. non-sexist/racist etc.) spin on an old show then I think people push back because it's 'different' and because of the memories they attach to watching it the first time around. Times are definitely changing surrounding this kind of thing but maybe not fast enough for the TV climate.

Summer is slowly coming to an end. Which show was the best hideaway from the heat outside?

MK: Summer shows. Glow and Younger are surely the best shows I watched this summer. The development of dramatic and comedic stories these shows delivered was truly outstanding and made me look forward to their new upcoming seasons.

YN: Hands down Wynonna Earp. This 3rd season has massively upped its game. Its left the show feeling a lot more cohesive which I guess is what happens when you're in your 3rd season and have already set up the rules etc for the world the show is in. It's still as hilarious and emotional as always, with the cast always at the top of their game. The Bold Type was ok but the 2nd season had a noticeable drop in quality which was a shame. The Sinner is back and has been even better than that fantastic first season, which has surprised me in the best way. Outside of them my summer has been spent catching up on other shows like Daredevil, Dynasty. Glow and binging Las Chicas Del Cables aka Cable Girls.

MJ: I spent much of the first few months of the Summer watching the World Cup, following it up by binging on Lost and Alias. I never got around to finishing both shows like my initial plan was, instead stalling at the end of Season 4 on the former and reaching halfway through Season 2 on the latter, but they're pretty fun shows that I've really enjoyed watching these Summer months. A recent discovery for me has has been the brilliant A Very Secret Service on Netflix, a period French spy comedy that's The Office meets The Americans and is essentially the closest to a Man From UNCLE sequel that we're ever going to get. I'd highly recommend it, and it's been a nice end of Summer palette cleanser. I've also been very much enjoying catching up on the Brazilian dystopian drama 3%, directed by the cinematographer of one of my favourite films, City of God - and there's no surprise that it looks just as good as the film, making the most of a small budget that it has to offer.

New shows of course deserve a mention too and this has been a great summer. Castle Rock, Sharp Objects and Preacher have all brought their A-Game to the table with the latter delivering its best season yet.

Klutzy_Girl: Take Two! I was so surprised by how much I loved the show and I'm going to enjoy whatever we get of it. Plus, I'm thrilled Wynonna Earp and Killjoys are finally back.

LM: I'm really enjoying Sharp Objects and Castle Rock. This season of Preacher is definitely (so far) way better than last season. I was going to stop watching and now I'm glad that I didn't!

PC: The show of the summer for me was definitely “GLOW”. It’s the show I watch that is, IMO, the most bingeable, perfect for when you’re on the couch with the air conditioning cranked up.

Laura B: I'm really enjoying the four current shows I'm watching, The Sinner, Better Call Saul, Castle Rock, and Sharp Objects. It's hard for me to say, which has been the most enjoyable summer treat so far since three of them are still in progress and all of them have pretty serious subject matter, but if 12 Monkeys season 4 airing is still considered "summer" viewing, then I think that was most rewarding and just felt like a good fit for the season.

BW: I binged 12 Monkeys and loved it. I also enjoyed that The Originals and The 100 went so deep into the summer and I had them every week to look forward to. I was a bit miffed at first that they put them there, but now I appreciate that they were. For a new show, I am really enjoying the Canadian import Burden of Truth.

EC: My summer has primarily consisted of binge watching The Office and Parks and Recreation and Wrecked. All the dramas this summer have been insanely amazing but not exactly chilling kind of shows. 12 Monkeys definitely was a highlight though. Its final season packed in so much payoff. Just really satisfying.

JD: Animal Kingdom kept me gripped, as always. This unexpected second season of Trial & Error was a fun treat as well, though I'm sad it seems there won't be another miracle this year. Also, it just came back but Wrecked is continuing to do a great job being a comedy version of LOST, so it's been somewhat able to fill the absence in my heart left by LOST's farewell.

GB: Dietland, for sure. I started watching it because Marti Noxon and Julianna Margulies were involved, but then the storylines and the message behind the show kept me gripped and wanting more. I really do hope AMC will renew it, because shows like this are important, stories like this need to be told. And Joy Nash is a revelation.

Jamie Coudeville: I feel like I've been at an all time low when it comes to summer shows. I've barely had anything to watch. But I have enjoyed Wynonna Earp, Killjoys, The Bold Type and newbie show The Outpost.

Angela Niles: The second season of "Trial & Error", definitely. It was fun to escape to this weird little town and its goofy cast of characters for a few weeks. I feel like viewers could very much sympathize with the strange stuff this town went through, given we're living in pretty weird times as it is for real.

AK: I had some serious issues with The Bold Type this season but it definitely hit the mark and was profound, realistic and funny on more than one occasion. Harlots however has been absolutely stunning and I don't think enough people watch it or give it the recognition it deserves. I've been watching other shows like Take Two, Wentworth, Andi Mack and Alone Together but they don't quite reach the same heights as TBT or Harlots.

The fall season is just around the corner and some shows are promoting themselves better than others. Which returning show`s promotional campaign has you all hot and bothered?

MK: A Million Little Things has a great promotional campaign so far. I can`t wait to see more of the show and the story unfold. I really hope the show brings in the big numbers for ABC.

YN: Not technically a fall show, but Netflix did finally release the trailer for season 3 of Las Chicas Del Cables aka Cable Girls and I'm still SHOOK. I have absolutely no idea what on earth is in store for us! It seems like the writers found a whole new level of crazy and I'm totally here for it as long as nothing happens to Francisco. I'm really enjoying the Charmed promotional campaign which I hope changes people's minds about the show. But apart from that I haven't really been paying attention to the promo run, since I have enough shows I'm watching/have to catch up on and with Uni literally weeks away, I ain't got no time to be adding even more shows to my list.

LM: This summer has been too crazy busy for me to even start thinking about the fall shows!

Laura B: I haven't really been following much of the network promotions, since there are only three network fall shows I will be watching, but I like to take this opportunity to say that Amazon Prime Video has been pushing Man in the High Castle's third season premiere much harder than normal, which is probably one of the things I'm most excited see this fall next to Outlander and hopefully, The OA.

BW: Well first and foremost, I smile every time I open Amazon and see The Man in The High Castle front and center! The trailer they released this week got me super excited for its return and I didn't think my excitement could get any higher! It is not returning but a spin off so I will give it some love and say FX is doing a fantastic job of promoting Mayans MC to get people interested and bring in new fans that may not have seen SOA. They have released individual character tweets every couple days and also released a great featurette this past week that made me want it NOW. For the network side, I have seen a lot of promotion for 9-1-1 on social media which gets me super pumped for it to come back.

EC: FOX has rolled out its last shred of red carpet to promote its best remaining shows The Resident and 9-1-1. That's a combination that I am eagerly looking forward to on Monday nights/Tuesday mornings this season. Otherwise, there's not much else to comment on. Very little promotion from any of the broadcast networks. The constant upbeat social media from the casts of American Housewife, Speechless, and A Million Little Things makes me excited for those shows though. For streaming, THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE is doing amazing. Its key art, its teasers, its trailer.....Gimme gimme gimme!!!

JD: I don't catch a ton of live TV these days, especially network TV, but the promos I've seen most are for 9-1-1. I'm really hoping they're just deciding on over-the-top advertising and won't actually be doing as much gimmick as the promo implies. It was a fairly grounded show last season and I'd hate to see them turn season two into a constant hype fest of larger than life disasters.

GB: I have to say Murphy Brown and American Horror Story: Apocalypse. We haven't seen much (just some teaser trailers and posters) but I am really excited!!

Angela Niles: I haven't really seen much promotion for most of the shows I watch thus far, and what I have seen is pretty well par for the course, so...woo.

AK: The teaser trailer for The Good Doctor was incredibly well edited, but the promos that have me hyped the most are those for It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia. I can't wait for it to come back!

That is a wrap guys! Your turn now, come and join the discussion down below. Till next week. . .

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