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POLL : What did you think of Game of Thrones - The Laws of Gods and Men?

12 May 2014

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74 comments:

  1. Debsterforever12 May 2014 at 03:01

    Tyrion and Ramsay&Reek made this show worth watching again. Can't wait to see Tyrion let Shae and Cersei pay. It's time for Tyrion's revenge and it's going to be awesome.

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  2. Midnight12 May 2014 at 03:07

    The Iron Bank: Where we treat kings and commoners alike!

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  3. Ralph Hartman12 May 2014 at 03:18

    Peter Dinklage was fantastic in that final scene. That better be his Emmy nomination submission.

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  4. Slimneb12 May 2014 at 03:46

    I'm gonna bet that Shae was forced by Tywin to say what she said. Probably said he'd free him or something.

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  5. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 03:46

    First off, how cool was it seeing Braavos in the credits!
    It even had coins traveling the battlements! Valar Morghulis!

    - Davos just saved Stannis's ass again, eh?
    - A nice return for Salladhor Saan and Yara Greyjoy!
    - Reek, my name is Reek. It rhymes with freak.
    - About time someone attempts to open Dany's eyes to the realities and consequences of her actions. Not that she takes much note, yet.
    -I loved the Small Council meeting! Such great actors sitting at a single table!
    - A Varys sighting! He adds so much to every episode he appears in. More Varys!!

    - Cersei is such a hateful character and also a character worthy of hating!


    A number of changes from the books in this episode as well, but I think most scenes worked out nicely as far as the arcs of the TV series are concerned.


    I quite liked the scene between Jaime and Tywin, and I enjoyed seeing Stannis and Davos at the Iron Bank, but Yara's failed rescue of what used to be Theon I'm not so sure about.


    The trial was very good overall, but the last scene was brilliant!
    Dinklage was astounding.

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  6. nobody12 May 2014 at 03:47

    The scenes with Stannis and Davos along with Tyrion's last scene after Shae's testimony was among this series best scenes to date. Peter Dinklage, without a doubt gave a phenomenal performance in that last scene! So far this season has been even better than last season, and I thought last season really kicked - @$$! This season has so far built - up a ominous atmosphere with "Death seated at the dinner table waiting for a banquet..........a pound of flesh or a bucket of blood is the question?" I'm looking forward to finding out in the coming episodes. 4 THE IRON THRONE AND THE LAST TARGARYEN, I am still Nobody!!!

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  7. Songformylove12 May 2014 at 03:47

    Tyrion!!! My darling, good night I could feel the tension and the heartbreak. So much range is amazing and PD hit me right in the feels, going from broodingly handsome, heartbreaking adorable to down right scarily hot in anger is amazing. He is a lion.

    I didn't and couldn't blame him tho for what happened with Shae, he tried, but poor communication just got in the way poor baby. I vote A+

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  8. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 03:50

    It truly has been an amazing season. IT has just been hitting on all notes. You can tell that the creative has learned lessons from past mistakes and found ways to make things work that may have been hit or miss in the past.


    Honestly, though, I still wonder how the next season will be!
    This season has a real conclusion built in, but the next couple seasons will need to be reworked so much to really play well on screen. This stellar season has made me trust D&D more, but I do still wonder a bit.....

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  9. nobody12 May 2014 at 04:01

    Your concerns are shared. This series continues to raise the standard of excellences in writing and acting.............so one would have to wonder how much longer can this excellences continue before it plateau's or worse...........takes a nose dive. So far Game of Thrones hasn't let me down...............yet. 4 EVER, Nobody!!!

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  10. TeamLexana12 May 2014 at 04:13

    It did feel like a letdown of all the amp up that she was gonna get him and then to leave without Theon and to state that he was dead. It started great and she looked badass but ultimately just felt flat to me too by the end.

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  11. TeamLexana12 May 2014 at 04:20

    Poor Tyrion! I felt so bad for him, especially during Shae's speech! I know it was coming too since it was in the book but I guess I still had some small hope that Shae wouldn't testify against him and be so hurtful in the HBO version since their relationship felt more real to me then the one in the books. Shae may be hurt due to their last scene together, but come on now! If he's found guilty, he's gonna die, is that really worth it? Especially with tossing Sansa under the bus as well since she's stated that she loves her in the past. Being uber pissed off at someone that's wronged you is always okay but to actively help in getting them killed? NO. Sorry Shae but you's gots to go to hell now. :p

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  12. start_wearing_purple12 May 2014 at 04:22

    That was easily one of Peter Dinklage's best scenes of the series and that's saying something considering the number of gems he's produced. Tyrion staring down Tywin, the man who engineered a final humiliation of him, was just perfect. I'm really hoping he doesn't get killed off, I'm too invested in the character.

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  13. M.12 May 2014 at 04:58

    I don't think Tyrion will forgive Shae or trust that she was forced by Tywin to lie

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  14. DiabetesMan8812 May 2014 at 05:06

    I loved the whole court scene and that to me will stand out as one of the best scenes on the show in its history. Dany also is starting to show her weakness. She is just too stubborn and thinks she can have everything.

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  15. Luana Arturi12 May 2014 at 05:51

    That was fricking intense! It was all about Peter Dinklage, he was amazing, I'm glad Tyrion called them on their shit even if it can't come to much good. That staged trial was disguisting and enraging. And Tyrions face whe he was hearing Shae was heartbreaking. THat's a stupid whore for sure, he was only trying to protect her and she tried to have him not only humilliated but killed.

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  16. Luana Arturi12 May 2014 at 05:55

    It'd still be dumb for her to believe that man. Even if she's not evil she's a fool.

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  17. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 07:21

    Yeah...
    Last season when Yara spoke of a rescue I was against it since we knew it would turn out to pointless in the end..


    That said,the beginning of the rescue mission was ok, the action was good as well, but for warriors in armor with swords and shield to run from dogs is just nonsensical to me. Maybe if they were outnumbered by Bolton men


    The actors did their job well in the scene though!


    I chalk it up to one of those necessary scenes that gets shoehorned in to keep background players that are important in later seasons in the viewers minds.
    Still... should have been better.

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  18. ShatteredOne12 May 2014 at 08:14

    Awesome episode, but mainly because of the whole trial. I really could not care about the Greyjoys and Ramsay, so more screen time for them bores me.


    Stannis and Davos was good, if because I love when Davos gets a chance to shine. Also enjoyed Dany's bit, getting her to see what ruling is like.



    This episode had one of my favorite scenes from the whole of the show. Tyrion's outburst at the end was a long time coming and so perfectly executed by Peter Dinklage. His portrayal of that entire sequence, the little smirk he gets when he's staring down his father, and the intensity between Tyrion and Tywin's glare.


    And for the love of God, can someone kill Ser Meryn? I absolutely hate that guy, would love nothing more than to see him suffer like Joffrey did. Meryn and Cersei are 2 that I would love to see suffer in agony.

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  19. Lou12 May 2014 at 08:41

    + The Tyrion trial was as good as I hoped it would be, his speech at the end was phenomenal and sadly all too true. Prejudice in Westeros runs strong.

    + The Red Viper continues to be hilarious and great with everyone he talks to, love the scene with Varys.

    + Oh Reek, you messed up damaged man.

    + Davos and Salladhor Saan! Those two could have a pirate themed spin-off.

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  20. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 08:45

    I hate how in the show they made Tyrion look like the bad guy when it comes to Shae for sending her away in an abrupt way to justify her treacherous part in the trial. In reality she had no reason to betray him. Well, other than being a whore. It was a nice twist however which made the last 5 minutes awesome. Kudos for keeping her out of the promo, I bet many people didn't see that coming.

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  21. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 08:49

    Yes. I don't know much about acting and PD has got to be possibly the best actor in Got. I found his performance incredible, he definitely stole the whole episode.

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  22. MurderMondays12 May 2014 at 08:58

    The Dany scenes worry me. It seems like they'll be just as boring in the show as they are in the books.


    A lot of characters are going to start spinning their wheels soon so it will be interesting to see how they handle that.

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  23. Bob12 May 2014 at 09:12

    How on earth did the show make Tyrion look like a bad guy sending Shae away? The show has routinely shown the evil at King's Landing and how twisted his own family are, it'd have been pretty clear to every viewer the reason that the pretended to have no feelings for her... it was clearly the only way he could get her to leave so he was sacrificing his own happiness for her freedom.


    Anyway... ridiculously good episode.

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  24. Debsterforever12 May 2014 at 09:21

    Not forced by Tywin. Paid by Cersei. Shae has no idea about real love. She's jealous because of Sansa and now she wants to destroy Tyrion.

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  25. Debsterforever12 May 2014 at 09:24

    They showed that Shae obviously would be a stupid fool if she misunderstood Tyrion's intention to save her. But also in the series she appears to me like a whore who has no idea about real love. She saw that Tyrion felt more for Sansa than for her and that's why she wanted to destroy what she couldn't have.

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  26. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 10:57

    I am not sure you got what I said. Pretended to have no feelings for her. You said it yourself. He was mean and sent her away after all this time, which is a way to justify her betraying him. She had no reason for that in the books, which is another reason to justify what he did to her.

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  27. Marc Hartkamp12 May 2014 at 12:11

    Definitely my favorite episode of the season. Amazing stuff. Braavos! Mark Gatiss was awesome. Stannis finally did something! yay. The trial was so great. I don't really have any bad things to say about this episode. And it didn't even have any Stark.

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  28. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 12:16

    Yes, but in some way you can understand why she did it. He sends her
    away after all this time, not really understanding the reason behind
    his decision. She just thinks he used her and got bored with her, and
    now that he's married his wife comes first. I get he had to be the bad
    guy for her own safety, but that's just a way to justify her actions in
    the trial.

    In the books he actually treated her differently, in a
    more special way. But in the books Shae is just a whore that tries to
    survive. Tyrion never provoked her in any way to turn against him,
    especially considering all he did for her. Which makes her
    betrayal much worse and shocking since she had absolutely no reason to
    twist the knife in his back.

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  29. laura334112 May 2014 at 12:46

    Shea,oh Shea you know not what you do!... Could she really have misunderstood Tyrion's feelings for her after all this time? I can't believe she brought his act when he sent her away..

    OMG Theon,err Reek. I am left speechless,i thought he would recognize his sister after a few minutes. Is he lost forever?...

    Seeing Tywin on the throne made me realize just how perfect he looked up there.Everything dark and black except his scruffy beard and silver hair,ooh,sent chills down my spine!

    I loved how Jamie watched everyone and every move during the trial.You could tell he didn't miss a thing that was going on. I have new admiration for him standing up for and believing in Tyrion's innocence,and standing up to his father fighting for Tyrion.

    Cersei always hated her brother so i didn't expect her to be any different but jesus she left me cold,once again..and

    I wanted to cheer Tyrion on when he declared his innocence once again.Wanted to cry for him as he listen to Shea,and how he declared his innocence once again to his father,sister and everyone else. My god Peter is nothing short of brilliant in this series,and he was outstanding once again in this episode.

    Do we really only have 4 episodes left? REALLY?

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  30. Slimneb12 May 2014 at 14:30

    Well she really does betray him in the books, but i could totally see the show deciding to make her more sympathetic.

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  31. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 15:50

    -Braavo to Braavos and the Iron Bank!!! (but sadly no exterior scenes!)
    -Evil Shea...and too passive of a Cersei...
    -Dinklage played that last Tyrion scene so so dark! Nice to see he has it in him!
    -Poor Yara and "Reek"! I hate that Ramsey Snow with a passion!
    -Oh Jaime, I love you for trying and willing to give up something so important to you, but plans seem to be thwarted!
    -Oberyn is like the best judge ever!XD
    -What did I say, that perhaps not NOT all Masters were bad people, Dany!
    -Lord Vary's first time I'm ashamed of you! (and what happened to that "guy" you had in the crate?! :p)
    -Margaery's face during the trial = priceless.

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  32. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 15:58

    Except that she did this all to herself and is a horrible hypocrite. Tyrion told her he was not ever going to leave with her and he offered her a comfortable life in Pentos, but she refused and insisted on staying. She wanted him to protect Sansa, but yet every time he spoke of her she got jealous and made him feel guilty. There's also the prospect that she may have accepted something like money from Tywin or Cersei, which makes it all so much worse, because she wouldn't except it from Tyrion, but yet she might have excepted it from his known enemies...

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  33. tsavonglah0812 May 2014 at 16:29

    I thing, maybe her feelings have influenced clear thinking and she really believes that he has never loved here. Or there are other forces pressuring her to make such a strong statement against Tyrion. If you can't even trust Bronn to get her on that ship, everything is down the gutter.

    That physical and especially psychological torture really has left its mark on him. Thinking now the many scenes last season were necessary, otherwise many viewers might not have bought that shift for him.

    I wonder why Tywin never attempted for himself to sit the Iron throne. Is the pact between Jamie and Tywin now cancelled, due to Tyrion's decision not to plead for mercy?

    Regarding your words for Peter Dinklage's performance, yeah, that was spectacular. Though still 4 episodes left. Enjoy the Vorfreude for the last ca. 220 minutes. :)

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  34. tsavonglah0812 May 2014 at 16:30

    That scene confused me. Either the dogs were pretty lame, or Ramsay somehow decided to give them a head start before opening the cage.

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  35. tsavonglah0812 May 2014 at 16:31

    Looks like the show has no problem to live on, without any Stark character appearing in this episode. #Premiere

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  36. tsavonglah0812 May 2014 at 16:33

    I don't expect to see that "magician" again. Some things are better left to the imagination. :D

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  37. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 16:54

    Yes. Whatever was the case that made her turn against Tyrion, it's bad. She could've been coerced, bribed you name it. I just insist on my initial comment. Tyrion sending her away and treating her badly was unnecessary. They didn't have to make Tyrion being an *** and her angry and hurt. She would've betrayed him anyway. IMO it's actually really simple. She plays the role of a whore. She's supposed to act like that, even if it's still shocking considering all the things you mentioned and their relationship which wasn't as typical as anyone would have expected.

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  38. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 18:07

    "Tyrion sending her away and treating her badly was unnecessary."


    I disagree, only because he tried being nice before and it totally didn't work. The only way he thought he could save her life was by being mean, but like you said no matter what it wouldn't have worked, simply because of whom Shea is and that's exactly why it comes back to bite him anyways.

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  39. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 19:09

    I just think it would have been better for the show if he had treated her the same way he did in the books, or at least without hurting her prior to his arrest and after the wedding. It would have been much more dramatic for Tyrion seeing the person he cared the most betray him in a such way. And how stupid it was to fool himself into believing he could have an actual relationship with a common whore.. Deep down I just don't understand why they had to make her reasons for her testimony and character more complex than they actually were.

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  40. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 19:22

    Re: Meryn Trant
    Could not agree more!


    In the books a handful of the Kingsguard were tools of one kind or another, but I never felt a real strong dislike for them... more disappointment.


    By having Trant basically be the only Kingsguard we know, D&D have made me hate the character. Not a bad thing really, just different. If it was their intention it has been quite successful!

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  41. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 19:29

    What a shocker huh? Her executing people indiscriminately. I recall I was discussing that very same thing with someone last week. About her sense of justice, which isn't very just to say the least. Also a good point about not understanding/respecting the tradition and culture of the people she tries to rule over. That's another fault of its own... I am disappointed that the dragon killed the goat. It'd be interesting how she would have dealt with it having be the case, and how would people react. But most of all I am surprised that they painted her (even just a little) in a bad light with the noble situation.

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  42. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 19:33

    It's sad really, but I agree.
    She is the one arc I have never been comfortable with or really even understood what D&D are doing to the character.


    They delayed her character growth in Season 2 and 3 to a large degree instead focusing most of her scenes on her conquering cities/ freeing slaves and of course... dragon scenes. I think the highly cinematic visuals and impact moments have distracted some people from how bad her arcs have been as far as character development goes.


    She could easily be in Meereen for this season and next. She could really use an episode that focused on her with 2 or 3 god scenes in it. I hope we get some real personal scenes that allow her character to evolve and gain a little depth. Other wise it could be a long 2 years in Meereen as many feared.


    If they choose to use it I think the Sons of the Harpy plot could work if they handle it well, but I am curious/ concerned to see where are going.

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  43. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 19:35

    I know!
    It seemed like either they killed the dogs and escaped, or he threatened to unleash the dogs and waited for the Ironborn to start running before actually releasing them. But then why run in the first place!

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  44. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 19:40

    I wonder if we will get another dragon kill this season and this was just foreshadowing to the real drama to come.


    I was pleasantly surprised they showed Dany as being unjust and basically a tyrant after years of whitewashing her. I really hope they go somewhere with it though. They need to give her some scenes that allow the character to reflect and evolve otherwise a comment in one scene will pretty much just be wasted.


    Let's hope!.

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  45. Eva Oktabcova12 May 2014 at 20:09

    Noone here is worried about Tyrion's fate? I didn't read the books...(so I welcome any allowed spoiler). He's fantastic, I could watch only for his scenes (not the case though, there are incredible scenes in all the story lines). The last scene.... phenomenal!

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  46. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 20:13

    I won't give any details to you since I think the scenes will be improved if you get the full shock value etc... but...


    He has some really intense moments coming up this season and by season's end will be in a very different place, emotionally and physically.

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  47. nobody12 May 2014 at 20:15

    Wait until his (Tyrion's) trial by combat (who fights for Tyrion and who represents the council) and then see what he does from there. This is one story arc that should remain unchanged from the books.................more or less because it will be right up there with the "Red Wedding" as far as scenes/story arcs go (No Spoilers)! 4 EVER, Nobody!!!

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  48. laura334112 May 2014 at 20:19

    I'm sure Shea was probably paid by Cersei or Tywin offering to set her up very comfortably if she testified against Tyrion. I'm sure she believed he was trying to get rid of her,not knowing the demands Tywin placed on Tyrion about having kids.She doesn't realize he was trying to save her by sending her away.In her eyes he was through with her,used she and now that he was married he didn't need her....a women scorned,badly.


    Yeah,what about that pact now that Tyrion wants to fight for his innocence?

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  49. laura334112 May 2014 at 20:27

    Yeah,Dany had blinders on when it comes to seeing what she wants to see.Maybe in the future she will be less likely to rush into a city,dismiss what her trusted council has to say and actually find out what has been going on before she shells out 'her' brand of justice.

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  50. Eva Oktabcova12 May 2014 at 20:31

    Thank you, I really can't wait for more, I was just... blown away. :)

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  51. Eva Oktabcova12 May 2014 at 20:34

    Thank you, sounds exciting (though not that much reassuring! lol)
    Uh, I watched right before I went here and can't get over it. :)

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  52. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 20:36

    Not too much shocker for me (unless you're being sarcastic?)! I felt that there was a nice build over her brand of justice and beliefs in last batch of episodes (Justice with justice and not mercy, Grey Worm's lack of past identity and need to be a soldier verses Missandei's home sickness and questionings over free slaves and sentimentality, realization that the places Dany freed reverted back) and I felt like they needed to play with this for certain lines and scenes to really mean anything at all (Like Jorah trying to explain that she can't "tame" her dragons...).


    Right now her dragon's just killed goats, what if next time it's a child, which it could of easily been here? It's not that I think it's that she's bad, but more over she just didn't see all of these consequences or pitfalls in her approach. I think the fact she's milling them over/experiencing them is a good thing although I don't know if she can really trust all of these people either...

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  53. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 20:38

    Yeah! It's not that I think that necessarily everyone she's listening to is trust worthy, but reality checks can be good things for those that recognize them and at least she's acknowledging and considering things.

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  54. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 20:46

    I know what you mean, but I kind of like how the TV show Shea is, because what's coming is more acceptable to me. I feel like there's more justice in for Sansa this way. The complexity makes it all more dramatic and feeds into that melodrama characteristic of Shea.

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  55. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 20:53

    "I'm sure she believed he was trying to get rid of her,not knowing the demands Tywin placed on Tyrion about having kids",/i>


    I think she did know. I'm pretty sure Tyrion told her this is why he had to Marry her and Shae just didn't care or understand and instead used it as a weapon against him all the time. That's why it's SO distasteful of her. She said she would fight the Lannisters and wouldn't take Tyrion's money/offer, but yet here she is possibly taking Cersie's or Tywin's and now not protecting Sansa either after saying she "loves that girl"?! XD

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  56. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 21:06

    Sorry, I meant no offense to you. But I was being sarcastic with Daenerys and what I believe about her character.

    Not much of a spoiler right now, but it should've been the kid the dragon burned and ate. Her decision was to chain and lock up all of them which took more than enough effort and wasn't very wise. Just as bad as thinking she could tame them. She can't trust anyone evidently, besides Selmy. And him she doesn't even listen most of the times.

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  57. DarthLocke412 May 2014 at 21:13

    No, I apologize! I read it wrong! XD (who's the idiot-whore now!)
    (and I didn't take offense anyways. I enjoy our discussions! :D )

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  58. Jacktbx6 .12 May 2014 at 21:17

    This is Got, so there's gonna be lots suffering for everyone. But when we're talking about Tyrion, while he's been through a lot of ****, he always seems to come out on top. No need to be worried about him, and I'll just say that he's going be around for a very long time. He is the author's favorite character after all

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  59. Eva Oktabcova12 May 2014 at 21:22

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, exactly what I needed to hear. :)

    ReplyDelete
  60. laura334112 May 2014 at 22:27

    Agreed!

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  61. DarqueMode12 May 2014 at 22:44

    It's odd too, to a large degree they have kept Daenerys in her "pre-destined fate" mindset without using many of the prophecies of the books.

    In many ways she still seems to think that she will rule well because she is the rightful Queen. In the first season when Vicerys dies she realized despite being the true heir, he would have been a very bad king. It takes more than just blood to rule well. Then after that point on the TV show she has basically regressed.

    For 2 seasons we have seen her march from one city to another proclaiming she is the mother of dragons (and a list of ever-growing meaningless flowery tittles), then massacring those who held slaves without considering any one individual in that group. Something Vicerys would do perhaps, but not something an enlightened ruler should do.

    Her advisers have offered contrary views, which she inevitably ignores as they give her worried looks. It all feels less evolved than the book version of Dany. Even while she did those same acts in the books her world view was evolving and she was maturing as a leader, as a person.


    Maybe I'm reflecting on the books and only seeing the more mature ruler at Meereen and forgetting who she was and what she did prior to reaching that city?

    I think we need to see more of those personal scenes of the first season. Dany with her handmaidens, bloodriders or advisers etc. Scenes that lead to her thinking outside of herself and maturing.

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  62. DarthLocke413 May 2014 at 00:04

    "Her advisers have offered contrary views, which she inevitably ignores as they give her worried looks. It all feels less evolved than the book version of Dany. Even while she did those same acts in the books her world view was evolving and she was maturing as a leader, as a person.

    Maybe I'm reflecting on the books and only seeing the more mature ruler at Meereen and forgetting who she was and what she did prior to reaching that city?'



    Well I think it could definitely be a by product of not being in characters' head-spaces (but I have to say I have never been a fan of POV style writing anyways) and also, like you say, the show hasn't really made the fate/reincarnation and relationship between past, current, and future anywhere near as clear or impending the way the books do either, which also takes a way the argument that her role may be her role, regardless.


    I agree with you that we haven't seen a lot of personal scenes from her and that also makes her come off more thoughtlessly forthright, but also I think each of past two episodes brings her down more and more in both by showing an ability to question her definition of justice, but also as you say, does she really have a right to be queen, if she doesn't consider customs, culture, and the fact that her dragons are becoming unruly? If she would be a really bad leader, she wouldn't listen at all. She would just march on and tell ALL of these people to stuff it or she'd burn them or whatever, but another point might also be that things might have ensued this way anyways whether Dany was thoughtful or not, because like we were saying before, cultures take time to change and such threats to change will almost always be met with hostility, despite how and with what intentions.

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  63. TeamLexana13 May 2014 at 01:06

    Maybe Yara is vegan and while she'll kill humans like it's going out of style, dogs are a no go. lol.

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  64. laura334113 May 2014 at 02:25

    Ya,and unfortunately willing to help destroy the person who actually cared/loved her.

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  65. 2460113 May 2014 at 04:28

    Another slow-burner with a great payoff. The whole Tyrion trial was great, especially Tyrion's "F-U" moment. Quite a turning point for his character.

    However, I thought the Yara thing was a bit contrived, almost Lancelot-crashes-the-wedding-in-Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail contrived. Row the boats up, run into Ramsay and a completely de-humanized Theon, have a skirmish, "K never mind, let's go over to Pizza Hut instead".

    The Greyjoy thread, with Victarion, Euron, and Asha/Yara vying for Ironborn supremacy, along with Asha/Yara going AWOL would have been much better. Perhaps that will still happen. We'll see.

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  66. Jacktbx6 .13 May 2014 at 12:41

    That entitlement of her is the reason many people don't like her. It's
    just annoying considering the fact that is based on some false idea that
    her family was unjustly removed from power. It just makes her quest
    folly. If they had included most prophesies things would just be worse.
    Seeing enemies and conspiracies everywhere and living in constant fear
    of someone betraying you, wouldn't be the best way for her character to
    grow. At least now, she's trying to rule, or at least learn how. She has
    enough to worry about without having her being obsessed and paranoid.
    It would just speed up the progression into where I personally believe
    her character is headed. And that is being in her father's shoes. He was
    also a kind person in the beginning of his reign and brought peace and
    prosperity to the realm. If anything I can even note that she's started
    down the bad road even in a younger age. Displaying symptoms of
    anger/cruelty, excessive punishment, and we know for a fact that she's
    suffering from megalomania and pyromania which are traits of being a
    Tararyen. Things don't go particularly well down the road and while her
    problems in ruling amplify, her traits do as well.

    I didn't like
    Viserys (who did anyway), but I believe he was a bad person out of
    necessity. His bitterness and anger helped define his character. He
    would've been undoubtedly a bad King and cruel most likely, but if you
    look closely he was forced to become like that from a young age and
    because of who he was supposed to be but couldn't. Whereas the stories
    of Dany and her father are different and their characters further
    developed while they were rulers. They both had/have great power at
    their disposal, unlike Viserys. One was a King of a whole realm and the
    other has an army and 3 dragons.

    The only way for her to mature
    it would be to sit her royal/entitled *** down, and listen and learn
    from Barristan Selmy, instead of setting impossible goals (however noble
    it might be) that are impossible to accomplish. I don't know whether
    she reflects upon her personal story and how she grew, or just perceives
    slavery as an evil thing. What I know is that she'll never eradicate it
    completely. Something she obviously believes and gone to extreme
    lengths to accomplish. But no, she prefer being in complete dark about
    her family's history/westeros (the place she claims is rightfully hers)
    and hell-bent on shaping a world like she thinks it should be, which is
    idiotic considering is far away from her main goal, the thing she first
    set out to accomplish, and will most likely be reshaped the second she
    sails off, just like it happened in Yunkai and Astapor.

    I must've
    missed some of the things but enough ranting for today. I know I sound
    like a broken record, but I just believe Daenerys is a lost cause unless
    something dramatic happens and shakes her pretty good to a point that
    she has to reconsider everything and change course. Believe it or not I
    used to like her in the beginning (I had watched the first two seasons
    before reading the books and with the way the portray her it wasn't too
    hard), but as her chapters became progressively more boring and stale
    and everything she tried unraveled, so did my opinion of her changed.

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  67. 2460113 May 2014 at 12:52

    After a full night's sleep, i realized I drop the ball on "RUN AWAY!!!" It was right in front of me and I missed it completely.

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  68. Sandi13 May 2014 at 13:26

    One thing that puzzled me about Dany was where the hell was she getting this cash to pay back the goat herder three times what his flock was worth, surely she can only do that with wealth she has just stolen herself?? Well, wealth her freed slaves have just gained on her behalf really, which makes it even more hypocritical when you think about it....


    The council meeting was one of my favourite scenes, agreed at so many great actors (and characters) round one table. Had to laugh when Tywin made Mace go and fetch his quill and the idjit immediately jumped up and obeyed like a trained dog XD I thought it was very effective as a way of showing us how easily manipulated he will be as a judge in Tyrion's trial.


    Varys always makes for a good episode, I like how they are sowing seeds of what's to come from him bit by bit :)

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  69. DarthLocke413 May 2014 at 16:16

    "If they had included most prophesies things would just be worse.


    I disagree, because a writer uses things like that to make a statement about the nature of this reality. It allows for their to be an a debate over if their is such thing as free will and pay back in this universe and what the actual truth of everything is....


    For example if the series ends with all the prophecies coming true, the white walkers killing everyone, then there is some kind of existentialist philosophy in that everything dies/changes inevitably and/or that because also the White Walkers include some of this worlds ancestors, that the atrocities of the past were so horrific, that having no future is some kind of justice.


    If the series ends with a few characters living after they've defeated the white walkers, but then tey go back to fighting over the throne and all kill each other, then Martin is being Nihilistically existential, because he point blank is saying that these people did not deserve to live...


    Now if the series ends with the White walker being defeated, the COF come and help restore a more peaceful order, and where the remaining characters that are left are redeemed and more just, then he's making a non secular pro-humanism statement about natural cycles and rebirth.


    But the idea that their is magic in this universe is playing to the idea there is something bigger than the characters, which adds a more complicated look at their actual roles, conscience efforts, and reasons to exist.

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  70. Jacktbx6 .13 May 2014 at 16:42

    You misunderstood what I meant. Perhaps I should've been more clear, but I was referring to prophesies regarding Daenerys, not in general. On a side note the big picture is about the fight between good and evil, or dark and light if you prefer. It's been prophesied that AA/PTWP/LH which I believe it's one an the same will be reborn and lead the fight against the others. Whether the outcome might be, that's not clear.

    As for Dany IIRC most of the prophesies are dire and kinda ominous. That could only help to make her situation and her character worse. She's already pretty dark IMO, nothing good will come (in the show at least, cause in the books it is the case) having her being paranoid as well, and mistrusting anyone out of fear for they might betray her.. I was just comparing her with her father who was also paranoid and saw enemies everywhere and we know where that led. Not to mention about her brother whose all life was formed based on a prophesy. First he thought he was supposed to be tptwp, and later his obsession with fulfilling it was the cause of a war.

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  71. DarthLocke413 May 2014 at 17:23

    I didn't misunderstand you this time. My response was about Dany and anyone, because my point was I think it's possibly all the same, whether we're talking about Dany character or anyone else, because playing a destined role is playing destined role. It makes it harder for me to judge her, because of the possibility that her own nature goes beyond herself.


    I would actually prefer to see those prophesies and a certain someone, because it show's one WHY she feels the need to do what she does, despite that they are dark and ominous. Without them she looks more like a crazy brat who doesn't know what she's doing at all, even though I think she has some good intentions, but with the p,prophecies you at least know that there are things bigger than herself pushing her to react. You can understand her fear and concerns more easily.


    For all we know she has right to be paranoid (her instincts have done her credit in regards to her own life), because the things she sees/are being told could be "true" and I think it's possible that the Iron Throne becomes obsolete due to the White Walkers, in which then her strengths and flaws in these circumstances could suddenly become strengths in those! It's just it all still remains to be seen what the true nature of this reality is including the nature of magic...but it could be that magic is bad and this will turn into a story about denying certain kinds of it in some way. But without knowing it I can't fully determine is Dany is "good" or "bad", but can only conclude that she's playing a role for one reason or another and that she could easily just be a part of nature in this universe...


    Setting fate argument aside, girls in this universe are often really mistreated as well and there is an argument to be made that if she wouldn't be the ways she is, she wouldn't survive it anyways. And people I think people generally only learn by experience.

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  72. Jacktbx6 .13 May 2014 at 20:49

    Pardon me for the confusion then. All those comments sometimes I forget what I've said :D.

    I would've liked to see those prophesies as well, since it reinforces my opinion about her character, but the show has changed it and the way they portray her. So far she looks like a savior on some just crusade to reclaim what's rightfully her IMO. She just takes a detour for her main goal, and so far I don't think people have been fed up yet with her for abandoning her plans. On the contrary they see her quest to free the slaves as a noble one and realizing fruitless and waste of time it is. Like I said she has enough on her plate already to have her constantly reflecting upon the prophesies which will very consuming and will only lead her further down the road of where I think she's going to end up. Soon enough though something is bound to happen, so we'll get to see some of that.

    Sure she's a Targaryen and the dragon has 3 heads. She'll probably have a role to play along with her dragons in the upcoming battle. She'll need to have a serious change of course for that to happen however, Perhaps Tyrion will manage to knock some sense into her, if they meet. Though I like to believe that the 3 dragon heads is one person with just 3 different identities. Also the last hero who defeated the others didn't need dragons, just his dragonsteele. Besides about the scene you mentioned, I take its meaning as more symbolic rather than a glimpse of the future. But all these is just speculation. Nobody, including her is good or bad. Nothing has been decided yet.

    Like I said before I did like Daenerys in the beginning. Most people did based on what she'd been through. It was later I changed my mind. Sure she did what she had to survive. But power corrupts and personally I believe she's lost. And about the ending I think she'll end up getting another army, or kill them all, or be dragged by the hair in Vaes dothrak . Either way I see her surviving once again the odds and come out on top. However shes gonna have to face the reality of her actions and some sad news. There's a battle going on in Mereen and people she cares about will probably die. Whether that develops her character in a positive/negative way, I cannot say.

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  73. DarthLocke413 May 2014 at 22:11

    I totally understand! --and I too question her brand of justice, but like you said, compared to some of the other character's motives, freeing slaves isn't necessarily a bad prospect or character trait, just that like many Tars, she forgets herself in fury, but I also think she's up against things that are not fair to begin with...


    Ya that Betrayal and her reaction, isn't going to help viewers perspective of her much! XD


    I just think it's not yet to late for her to try and try again and/or for her destiny to go beyond the Iron Throne...although I find what Quairthe tells her really amusing considering what Tyrion may or may have not discovered!!!!


    Personally I really like where DWD leaves her, because it's hard to tell what that exactly means...if she utterly failed and get what she deserves and/or is it a red hearing to make readers think, sigh, here we go again!? :D

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  74. tsavonglah0814 May 2014 at 20:04

    Sadly Trant won't go out hunting The Hound for the gold dragons. That would have been a fun match to watch. lol

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