The brother bond is back! Woo hoo! Judging on fan reaction, I wasn't the only one to be pleasantly surprised by the lack of brother sniping in this episode. Plus we had Crowley snark so there are plenty of quotables. Don't forget to nominate your favorite 2 quotes for our ultimate quote game this summer. Also because I can never stop messing with the format of these posts, I've decided to add quick reviews at the end. These are only my opinions of course. Your mileage will vary.
Funny/Snarky quotes:
11. Crowley: "Nah, are all young people so horribly cynical? Depresses me Kevin. Here's the thing. I really want you to read the tablet because frankly this lot failed to inspire. However, better a stupid prophet than a stubborn prophet as they say it goes."
10. Justin: "You're aliens right?" Crowley: "Possibly a long shot. This mean anything to you?" Justin: "I don't read Chinese." Crowley: "Talk about the dumbing down of America."
9. Crowley: "I hope the ruckus down the hall wasn't too off putting. Construction standards aren't what they were during the Inquisition."
8. Crowley: "It's all very West Side Story but let's be logical. You look like hell and I should know. You're not up for this."
7. Sam: "You look like you've…well I was going to say you look like you've seen a ghost but you'd probably be stoked."
6. Crowley: "Well I suppose there's no reason to keep torturing you then." (Crowley stabs Samandriel again.) Crowley: "Sorry. Once you get going, it's really hard to stop."
5. Mrs. Tran: "I hired a witch." Kevin: "A witch?" Mrs. Tran: "Off of Craigslist. Her name is Delta Mendota and she is a smart cookie. She's scrappy, reliable, and she's willing to kill."
4. Crowley: "So, read any good tablets lately?"
3. Crowley: "Blah, blah, blah. Does anyone ever edit this stuff? So far as a writer God's a snooze. No fun at parties I hear."
2. Crowley: "Which Castiel is it this time? I'm never sure - madman or megalomaniac?"
1. Crowley: "Anyone else want to complain? Hmm."
Mytharc/Story-moving quotes:
11. Cas: "Heaven? I've never been here before." Naomi: "Not many have. My name is Naomi. We rescued you." Cas: "Purgatory." Naomi: "An excursion of angels which cost us many lives. Consider these chats your repayment."
10. Sam: "Why would demons want them?" Dean: "Why do demons want anything?"
9. Benny: "Putting a lot of trust in you brother." Dean: "You earned it." Benny: "I'll see you on the other side."
8. Kevin: "This one describes sealing the gates of hell." Crowley: "So it's true. It's there. Clearly humans can't possess this thing. What was God thinking? We'll get back to that. Just getting to the sexy part."
7. Kevin: "You just killed my mother." Crowley: "Very unfortunate but to be fair, she was plotting to kill me and my kind."
6. Cas: "Maybe you were lied to. Maybe there is no seam." Benny: "I lie. I don't get lied to. Aren't you guys all about faith?" Cas: "Not particularly."
5. Crowley: "Don't provoke my Kevin. You still have 9 fingers."
4. Crowley: "The power grid in heaven is so whacked out they don't even know you're not there. So on the count of 3. I…2…" (Crowley stabs Samandriel) Samandriel: "What happened to 3." Crowley: "I lied. I do that. Just give me the other names."
3. Naomi: "It's not your concern. Help the Winchesters. Come when they call. You will report in to me regularly and you will never remember having done so."
2. Cas: "Yeah angels instinctively know the names of every prophet, past, present and future." Dean: "So this list if the name of every one of them that exists?" Cas: "Yes until the next generation is born. Plus Kevin Tran of course. The other 7 are future prophets since uh only one can exist at a time."
1. Crowley: "There are more tablets. More than Leviathan and demon."
Emotional quotes:
7. Dean: "Exactly. What? What the hell happened? Back there, Purgatory. I told you I would get you out. Okay we were there. It's like you just gave up. It's like you didn't believe we could do it. I mean you kept saying that you didn't think it would work. Did you not trust me?"
6. Dean: "I did everything I could to get you out. Everything. I did not leave you." Cas: "So you think this was your fault?"
5. Dean: "What the hell are you talking about?" Cas: "It's where I belonged. I needed to do penance for the things I did on earth and in heaven. I didn't deserve to be out and I saw that clearly when I was there. I…I planned to stay all along. I just didn't know how to tell you. You can't save everyone my friend although you try."
4. Dean: "I tried so damn hard to get us the hell out of there." Sam: "I know you did."
3. Dean: "You do see something severely wrong here right? Sammy I remember every second of leaving that place. I mean I remember the…the heat, the stink, the pain. Even the fear. I have that whole ugly mess right here and he says he has no idea how he got out. I…I'm just not buying it." Sam: "So you think he's lying?" Dean: "I'm saying something else happened. I saw the shape that he was in. I mean there was no way he was fighting his a** out alone. No way!" Sam: "Alright, so who or what got him out?" Dean: "Yeah exactly."
2. Dean: "You know I could have pulled him out. I just don't understand why he didn't try harder." Sam: "Dean…you did everything you could." Dean: "Yeah but why do I feel like cr**." Sam: "Survivor's guilt." Dean: "Hmm." Sam: "If you let, this is going to keep messing with you. You've got to walk past it."
1. Dean: "Save the Hallmark. It's gonna work. Nobody gets left behind."
Special Quote Awards:
Oh Kill Me Now Line: Dean: "Look I don't need to feel like hell for failing you okay. For failing you like I fail every other God forsaken thing that I care about. I don't need it."
I thought we left Guilt-Entrenched Dean in Purgatory. I thought we were getting new, improved, mature Hunter Dean this season. Let's stifle the guilt and go kill some evil. Besides this line is bound to start yet another round of who really failed whom in the fandom.
Best Answer to a Dropped Plot Line: Sam: "Uh how…how is Kevin a prophet if Chuck is a prophet?" Cas: "Not sure what happened to Chuck but um he must be dead."And good riddance in my opinion. Here's to never having Chuck back. I still blame him for Becky and his two hideous meta episodes. In all fairness though, I did like him in The End and the actor who portrayed him is awesome.
Quote to Live By: Dean: "Save the Hallmark."
It's the season 8 version of "No chick flick moments." Oh how I wish the authors would remember this mantra. We went from scary cool mini-horror movie to emoangsty melodrama for a while there and we still haven't fully recovered yet. I'm hoping for an action-packed quest in the second half of this season.
Review:
However, we also got a return of one of its fatal flaws - secondary characters saving the day. Not that this has been lacking in season 8 at all. This time it was Castiel's turn. While Dean gets thrown by a demon, Cas palm waves him away. Cas saves Kevin and probably his finger. Yet the most glaring time was when the big confrontation was between Crowley and Cas and the brothers weren't even in the room. At least in episode 2 they got to be lovely wallpaper. It's time for Dean and Sam to become the heroes of their own story again. Of all the things I miss from the first 3 seasons, this is the biggest. Here's hoping for the second half of the season quest to give us solid Winchester wins. In the end, this episode gets a C+ and ranks as the third best of the season for me.
Screencaps by Home of the Nutty
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I still say Crowley's quote: "Anyone else want to complain? Hmm." is directed at the fandom. It made me laugh.
ReplyDeleteLOL,had not thought of that, but it just might work.
ReplyDeleteI went with one you did not like, Dean: "Look I don't need to feel like hell for failing you okay. For
ReplyDeletefailing you like I fail every other God forsaken thing that I care
about. I don't need it." I liked this one, because it is true as far as Dean feels, but I am hoping that the talk with Cas can help with this problem.
2nd one Cas: "Maybe you were lied to. Maybe there is no seam." Benny: "I
lie. I don't get lied to. Aren't you guys all about faith?" Cas:
"Not particularly." I liked the Cas comment about faith.
I have to go with this one, it's the only thing that made me laugh all 4 times I watched it - Crowley: "Which Castiel is it this time? I'm never sure - madman or megalomaniac?
ReplyDeleteDean: "Look I don't need to feel like hell for failing you okay. For failing you like I fail every other God forsaken thing that I care about. I don't need it."
ReplyDeleteThat's my favourite quote of the episode. I've watched the episode three times, and that line has stabbed me in the heart every time. And maybe I just tune out the people who like to start arguments, but so far all I haven't seen anyone using it as fuel for a who-failed-whom debate. I've just seen people take it as an expression of how much Dean cares about Cas. It harkens back to when Dean said that lets down the people he loves. When there are some fans who still argue that Dean doesn't even like Cas, and the only reason Dean said he's like a brother to him was because he was trying to get Cas to do what he wanted, it's nice to have Dean say something, without any possible ulterior motive, that basically puts his relationship with Cas into the same category as his parents and Sam.
My other favourite line:
Castiel: Better?
Because, YES, oh my god, so much better. I feel like that was the writers addressing the fans, saying, "Here is Castiel back, no more god-complex, no more amnesia, no more crazy. You're welcome."
Huh... I missed a bunch of those Crowley quotes. I guess I take back what I said before about him being less snarky than usual haha... I loved his one about the Inquisition :) I also loved Cas' little speech to Dean about how everything ISN'T his fault, and he can't save everyone. It speaks so much to the every fiber of Dean's being, and is one of the things about him that I love yet also drives me crazy haha
ReplyDeleteAlso, I was thinking about this today, and I don't think that having secondary characters save the day is a problem. I think the problem is that the main arc of the episode doesn't relate back to both Sam and Dean in some way.
ReplyDeleteIn the episode commentary on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, one of the writers (it might have been Jane Espenson. Or maybe Joss Whedon. I forget.) said that when they break episodes, one of the questions they always asked was, "What's the Buffy of it?" Unlike, Supernatural, BtVS was an ensemble show. So there were often episodes that focused largely on not-Buffy characters. They could have episodes where Willow or Xander saved the day, or that were mainly about Tara or Anya, or even an episode entirely about an occasional recurring background character (Jonathan). But there was always some kind of arc for Buffy in the episode. Even if she didn't save the day, even if the main plot wasn't about her, it still related back to her in some way.
I think that's the mistake the writers make, is that they don't ask themselves, "what's the Sam/Dean/Sam'n'Dean of this episode?" Maybe it's because they're unused to balancing the arcs of various characters, because it's typically been so rare for secondary characters to have fleshed-out arcs of their own on Supernatural. I dunno.
That is also my favorite line, Dean always tries to save everyone he cares about and the response he got from Cas reminds me so much of the first time when Cas said "you don't think you deserve to be saved". Good writing and I am loving season 8, almost 100%.
ReplyDeleteTo follow with the Buffy analogy, I remember watching the Jonathan episode and being taken by surprise by the small, subtle differences that I had never even noticed. It felt so bizarre to see everyone looking to Jonathan for direction, and seeing Buffy as more of a typical teenage girl than a leader. It made me realize how Buffy usually drives the episodes and how "off" if felt when Jonathan was doing it instead. I think that's part of the issue here. Nowadays when Dean steps up as a "leader," it's more posturing than anything else. And when he does get a victory, they have to dumb down or depower the bad guys beyond credibility to make it work, because the truth is Dean as a human is way outmatched by Crowley, the Leviathans, and all of the other recent villians they've faced. If Crowley really considers Sam and Dean a threat, why wouldn't he just snap his fingers and break their necks the way he did with Kevin's girlfriend? And as for Sam, no one tries to make him a leader anymore. It was more of an equal partnership between Sam and Dean in the first few seasons, but now he's mostly the research and ask questions guy.
ReplyDeleteSo I do think you're partially right in that the issue isn't so much having side characters occasionally step up, as it is the fact that they writers seem to be bored with Sam and Dean and prefer to focus on other characters (Sam even more so than Dean, now that Dean has the Purgatory action). But the balance is also off as well. It should be a pleasant surprise when a side character has a centric or steps in to save the day. Instead it's become the formula, and it's a surprise when Sam and Dean are driving the action and realistically winning the victories.
To be fair though, Supernatural was never Buffy. Although Sam had supernatural powers for a time, he was discouraged from using them, so Sam and Dean aren't super-powerful like Buffy was. And Sam and Dean's storyline has always been reactive. John and YED were driving the mytharc in the first season. YED was in the second. The third was a little more balanced between Sam and Dean and the demons. The fourth and fifth I think were more balanced. Sam and Dean were starting to understand the game they were in and were therefore able to make their own plans and take back some control. In season 6, the mytharc was driven by Cas and Crowley. And in season 7, there wasn't much of a mytharc. But with that said, I think the story should shift to where Sam and Dean are more proactive than reactive. They're at the point now where they know the major players, they have some strong victories under their belts, and they should start being considered and acting like players themselves.
I completely disagree about Buffy. The Scooby Gang were always main characters in that show. They appeared in all of the episodes and were an integral part of the story. we grew to know them better in every episode. The actors were billed as main characters too. In Supernatural the only main characters are Dean and Sam. Even Bobby was only in one third of the episodes and often only in a short scene or two. Giles, Willow, and Xander's importance to the show as a whole cannot be compared at all with Bobby, Castiel, and random guest #3.
ReplyDeleteWe have had 156 episodes of SPN air. Of the 7 episodes that have aired this season, guest stars have saved the day more than the brothers have. It breaks down like this: Kevin Tran saves the day, who has been in 4 episodes. Mrs. Tran - 4 episodes. An episode where no one saved the day. Garth - 3. Castiel - 49. This season is actually worse than the previous ones at having the brothers be central to the action of the story. In Buffy they were a team right from the beginning with the characters taking the lead at different points. In Supernatural they are a duo with some people coming back more than others but still never a main character. In Buffy the main characters saved the day almost every single episode. In Supernatural there are far too many times when the main characters watch someone else save the day. That takes the story away from the brothers and shifts it to whomever happens to be in the episode that week. For me this is a fatal flaw that needs to be fixed.
I agree with your added comments. Since season 4 the story has been too epic, going beyond the scale of what humans can conceivably do. Supernatural is the very human story of two brothers fighting great odds to rid the world of evil. By continually trying to make the bad guys more powerful instead of making the story more powerful, the show has gotten itself into too many corners. Miracle saves by other people are now the norm instead of the exception and it's hurting the show. Even worse, many of the "saves" this year are being done by people with no more power than Dean and Sam and a whole lot less experience. All they are doing is sidelining the focus for people we haven't had time to really care about or be invested in. Guest characters should not be placed above the main characters and especially not episode after episode.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Crowley has been as snarky as he usually is all season. The level of snarkiness is definitely down across the board, which is a huge shame. The reason Crowley looks so snark heavy here is because no one else has any. Even Dean has been relatively snark-less this season.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It was perfect that Crowley pointed out the constant shifts in Castiel as a character.
ReplyDeleteI have not seen it hurt the show much in ratings and for me I have loved every ep, except Bitten. They could have just stayed at 22 ep season instead of putting a throw away in. It hurt me so much to ever say I did not find something in an ep to like. ;) The story has always been more than a normal human could do and I like that they know they need help.
ReplyDeleteNothing hurts Supernatural's ratings. It's about as steady as they come. Even the ratings this year haven't been that different when you look at the live +7. It's just that more people are watching live vs DVR now that it's on a Wednesday.
ReplyDelete1. Dean: "You know I could have pulled him out. I just don't understand why he didn't try harder." Sam: "Dean…you did everything you could." Dean: "Yeah but why do I feel like cr**." Sam: "Survivor's guilt." Dean: "Hmm." Sam: "If you let, this is going to keep messing with you. You've got to walk past it."
ReplyDelete2. Justin: "You're aliens right?" Crowley: "Possibly a long shot. This mean anything to you?" Justin: "I don't read Chinese." Crowley: "Talk about the dumbing down of America." (Talk about speaking the truth. Wow)
Supernatural is NOT Buffy. Dean and Sam always saving the day is unrealistic. They are only human and not perfect, superior beings who can always defeat every single villain. It's more realistic in a show about human beings saving the world that sometimes they need help and sometimes other characters step up and save the day. I see nothing wrong and no reason why Dean and Sam must always save the day or else the show somehow becomes lesser. Even on Buffy with her being THE SLAYER, aka having superior powers over the vampires and demons, she still didn't always save the day. Sometimes the main people coming through were the "regular" humans around her. I'm really sick of the constant complaints that secondary characters detract from Dean and Sam. It's getting very, very annoying.
ReplyDeleteI will get on this train with you, if I wanted superman powers I would just watch Superman. I love humans trying to do the right thing and of course they will need help. Very annoying is not strong enough words. lol
ReplyDeleteI am sorry that you are unhappy with my opinion but it is my opinion. I agree that occasionally a secondary character saving the day would be refreshing and believable but only when it is occasional. It hasn't been occasional for some time now and that is my issue with it. They have sidelined the main characters so often that sometimes it feels more like they are spectators to the action instead of participants. I have a real problem with that especially since it seems to be getting worse instead of better this season. If they cannot write the vast majority of episodes where the main characters can realistically get a win instead of watching someone else get a win, then they need to rethink the overall plot. The story shouldn't be so big that it renders your main characters useless. That was a flaw in seasons 4-7. This season is worse. Now even humans with less experience and no special powers are getting the win. Mrs. Tran took out a demon like no one's business but Dean is rendered useless by one until Cas takes him out. Sam can't managed to punch out a possessed Dean but Garth can. Kevin, whom the brothers come to save, ends up saving the brothers from the demons instead. This season has been brutal for the brothers as main characters and until they fix that, I will continue to state my displeasure on articles I post.
ReplyDeleteI know that the shows are structured entirely differently in terms of characters. That BtVS was an ensemble show is part of my point - it managed to be an ensemble show but every episode related back to Buffy herself in some way. SPN is not an ensemble show, but when they have episodes that are not about focused so much on Sam and Dean, the writers often don't make the other characters' stories relevant to what's going on with Sam and Dean. It's not simply about who saves the day, but whose story is being told.
ReplyDeleteI would say that "Blood Brother" is an example of doing it right. The episode was largely about Benny. But if you ask, "what's the Sam of the story," it's that Benny's story has strong parallels to Sam's, offering another lens through which to understand Sam, which was made more explicit by the flashbacks to Sam's year off. If you ask, "what's the Dean of the story," it's Dean's trust and friendship with Benny. If you ask "What's the Sam'n'Dean of the story," it's the tension that Benny introduces into their relationship.
On the other hand, and episode like "The Girl With The Dungeons etc." - while I really enjoyed it - Sam and Dean didn't have a story in it. If you ask the same questions, it's difficult to come up with an answer.