2.07 - Deliverance (03-Nov-2014)
Henry Parish’s most recent mystical attack against his mother, Katrina, begins to bear fruit, and while Abraham (aka The Horseman of Death) is aware that some mysterious ailment has befallen his love, he is unaware her sickness is the doing of his demonic compatriot. The two Horsemen of the Apocalypse reach an impasse when Abraham resists Henry’s attempts to take Katrina back to Fredericks Manor – ostensibly at Moloch’s command – and in the ensuing struggle, Katrina manages to escape. Ichabod and Abbie soon locate her and make the stark discovery that whatever the source of Katrina’s ailment, it appears to all be part of Moloch’s as-of-yet unknown “new purpose” for her. Upon getting Katrina to the relative safety of the Archives, Crane consults Benjamin Franklin’s notebooks and determines that whatever ails his wife has its origins in the ancient – though still active – secret society known as The Hellfire Club. As the Two Witnesses work to keep Katrina safe until a cure can be unearthed, they make a startling discovery about her condition, and come to the unlikely conclusion that in order to prevail against a ticking clock and a setting sun, they will need to put their faith in the most unlikely of sources... a hope that may in the end prove futile.
Meanwhile, Ichabod and Katrina come to realize that despite their now close physical proximity, recent events have succeeded in driving an emotional wedge between them. And while Ichabod continues to hold out hope that his son is not wholly beyond redemption, he remains cognizant of the fact he is, after all, The Horseman of War.
Henry Parish’s most recent mystical attack against his mother, Katrina, begins to bear fruit, and while Abraham (aka The Horseman of Death) is aware that some mysterious ailment has befallen his love, he is unaware her sickness is the doing of his demonic compatriot. The two Horsemen of the Apocalypse reach an impasse when Abraham resists Henry’s attempts to take Katrina back to Fredericks Manor – ostensibly at Moloch’s command – and in the ensuing struggle, Katrina manages to escape. Ichabod and Abbie soon locate her and make the stark discovery that whatever the source of Katrina’s ailment, it appears to all be part of Moloch’s as-of-yet unknown “new purpose” for her. Upon getting Katrina to the relative safety of the Archives, Crane consults Benjamin Franklin’s notebooks and determines that whatever ails his wife has its origins in the ancient – though still active – secret society known as The Hellfire Club. As the Two Witnesses work to keep Katrina safe until a cure can be unearthed, they make a startling discovery about her condition, and come to the unlikely conclusion that in order to prevail against a ticking clock and a setting sun, they will need to put their faith in the most unlikely of sources... a hope that may in the end prove futile.
Meanwhile, Ichabod and Katrina come to realize that despite their now close physical proximity, recent events have succeeded in driving an emotional wedge between them. And while Ichabod continues to hold out hope that his son is not wholly beyond redemption, he remains cognizant of the fact he is, after all, The Horseman of War.
Source:
Finally a horsemen plot. One that included Katrina as well.
ReplyDeleteSounds like an interesting episode.
ReplyDeleteUgh. This is going exactly as I hoped it wouldn't.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped that Sleepy Hollow wouldn't keep Ichabod and Katrina separated for a large chunk of the season. Nope. I had hope that even if the show chose to do so that they wouldn't do it with the intention of driving the husband and wife apart. Again, nope.
At this point I can see one of three things being an eventuality for Katrina.
1. She does actually end up with Abraham when he inevitably turns on Henry.
2. Henry and/or Moloch somehow turns Katrina and she switches sides.
3. She ends up dead at, around, or before season three.
"I had hoped that Sleepy Hollow wouldn't keep Ichabod and Katrina
ReplyDeleteseparated for a large chunk of the season. Nope. I had hope that even
if the show chose to do so that they wouldn't do it with the intention
of driving the husband and wife apart. Again, nope."
THIS^^^. I have very similar thoughts. :(
Also, I will go with the third possibility regarding her fate.
If she does die I'm sure the show will frame it as a noble sacrifice, whether that sacrifice is for her family or for the fate of the world but the truth is that no matter how useful or interesting a character she is she's still seen by many as an obstacle between the two main characters. It's a damn shame.
ReplyDelete*keeps nodding in agreement*
ReplyDeleteI like your cautious optimism even if I don't share it.
ReplyDeleteYour point about 'this ship' or 'that ship' revolting just makes me really mad at the current shenanigans of different fandoms and their use of social media to make their hysterical views known loud and clear. The most depressing part is that slowly but surely writer/creator integrity is being compromised while lending a eyes and ears to fandoms. Some network executives/show runners follow these shrill vocal cues and change the promotions/promote only a part of the show to fit a fandom's demands, change plot lines, modify/kill off characters, change couples etc. etc.
ReplyDelete😉 Cautious or not if I didn't have any optimism, I'd be leaving this show behind. I like it when ALL characters are used and circled. She piped my interest in Season 1, she is the only witch allied with the witnesses, she is the wife of one witness and the mother of one horseman, the love of another horseman. For me she has colossal amounts of potential. An that's just her wife/mother roles. Who was she before that can also be explored.
ReplyDeleteI just don't like the writers soft toed slow approach to revealing Katrina. She like her son can be re-introduced with a bang.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to upset you and I agree with your comment. I read last year that SH writers were off social media completely to just concentrate on the story their way. But since the break, I've seen them on twitter and just before every episode. They didn't do it in a Season 1 but I get the impression they are pandering to both ships this season. It's a shame because such tactics only bring more shippers and you lose the viewer who watch for the plot, character development, growth of the show.
ReplyDeletethey better not break them up just for the fanservice of ichabod and abbie shippers, that would piss me off, and i thought katrina was the one holding out hope and ichabod was treating parrish as an enemy
ReplyDeleteWhy are people here getting upset that Katrina is finally getting more screen time here, and in an interesting way? It makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I'm not ready to start worrying yet with this synopsis. I don't see any of this as an automatic sign that they'll break Ichabod and Katrina up, or even necessarily kill her. It's obvious those two love each other, but they've been separated for a long time, and now their son is causing extreme havoc. That alone would be enough to make any couple, even the most devoted one, be a little distant from each other, and have some struggles within their relationship. I'm not surprised that there's going to be some more hurdles for them to cross. This whole season's about the issue of trust-remember, Abbie's been wondering about how beneficial her trust in Crane would be to her, and to him, too. I think EVERYONE is going to get their moments of suspicion towards those they care about this season.
ReplyDeleteI for one am looking forward to seeing Ichabod and Katrina debating what to do with Henry, or seeing their different takes on the modern world now that she's a part of it. Those differences (and possibly similarities, should they share an opinion on something, which I firmly suspect they will somewhere along the way) could really make their relationship that much more interesting and complex in a good way. Emotional wedges don't always automatically mean a breakup, just means there's new stuff they have to deal with. All I wanted was for them to not be physically separated for too long, mostly because I want Katrina to be more actively involved in the action and goings-ons. Now that she's going to be with Crane and Abbie, that makes me happy, and I hope Katrina does play a more significant role from here on out.
I do agree with people's sentiments about shipping wars, though. People can ship Crane/Abbie all they want, that's fine, I certainly get why they would. But I do hope the show stands their ground with allowing Katrina to be part of the action, and doesn't find some way to dispose of her just to make shippers happy. I'm so tired of female characters being hated as it is; when they're hated because they get in the way of another pairing, that's really obnoxious.
Meh. Anyway, I'm willing to remain optimistic about these events. For now, Ichabod and Katrina are going to soon be reunited, and that makes me happy, so I'm looking forward to seeing how things go with them from then on out.
Ugh, seriously? Katrina has to be saved again? Isn't she a "great and powerful witch"? Why does she constantly need to be rescued? So sick of Princess Peach.
ReplyDelete😊it's like you've been travelling through my mind.
ReplyDeleteHahahahaha "driving an emotional wedge between them." That's an understatement. Thier marriage is toxic. Oh wait, their fake marriage is toxic, seriously you guys want to be "married" again, then renew your freaking vows! and have a wedding in this century. Also, really?? Saving Katrina again?? translation...risk your life (both you and Abbie's) for that "wife" of yours, only to be disappointed yet again.
ReplyDeleteHappy to be in agreement, then :)! I do understand the concerns others have, they're very valid ones...but I'm just gonna take a "wait and see" approach with this setup before I start worrying. To each their own, though.
ReplyDeleteAnother Katrina in peril episode? This stale awful character that will never quit! Ugh, this seems like the perfect episode to miss.
ReplyDeleteI don't see a romance between Icabod and Abby ever happening.....I really like this aspect of the show. They are more like family IMO.
ReplyDeleteYou know this because you're in the writers' room when they're brainstorming and penning these episodes. The show needs a social media presence as well as promotion by the network to ensure its longetivity and due to the less-than-stellar ratings. Why is it that whenever a storyline goes in a certain direction, people automatically assume the creators are pandering to fans? Which not only insults the creators, but the fans, too. In an early draft, Katrina was a ghost and was supposed to die in the finale etc. I cite these example to illustrate that scripts evovle and change in the final cut.
ReplyDeleteShippers are the bread and butter of any fandom because they will actively fight for a show's survival, engage in social media to spread and promote the show, go to cons and buy merchandise etc. Fan interaction rather, is about finding out what works, what fans like, or don't like, and what they want less or more of - many positives for the show have come about because of this (I won't spoil upcoming episodes by posting examples here.)
Sleepy Hollow is about Two Witnesses coming together to stop the Apocalypse, not Ichabod and Katrina's love story, a mother finding redemption for her son, or her regaining her absent powers. Ichabod and Abbie are the main reason fans tune in, and their chemistry is what critics comment upon, and sells the ridiculous plots.
Katrina derails the plot whenever she becomes the focus because it distracts from the larger mission, which she has contributed nothing to, and has in fact accelerated literal hell being brought to Earth. We were told all these wonderful things about her character - powerful witch, coven leader, spy, Quarker, civilian nurse etc., but haven't seen a jot of this in effect. So, why then, should we invest or care about a character that was a plot device in the first season, showed no personality (what do we actually know about her from her own POV?), was a hindrance rather than help (all her lies), and gave a forgettable performance? Whatever she might eventually bring to the plot, or powers she manifests, I'm indifferent 17 episodes in waiting for her to move more than a twig and provide information that isn't vague.
Funny that no one goes to bat for Abbie when trolls hurl both racist and sexist abuse at the character and the actress who plays her (but I digress), but rail against those that have legitimate reasons for disliking Katrina, wondering at her usefulness to the plot, and their entertainment in her scenes.
It's always the Ichabod and Abbie shippers bringing the show down. Well, in case you might have forgotten he is the Horseman of War and is responsible for three deaths (which could have been four if not for the Witnesses intervention), enslaving Irving, arson, an innocent man being unfairly imprisoned, and we're only on episode four, so excuse them for treating Henry as the enemy when he is in fact working to destroy mankind and many more atrocities to come
ReplyDeleteJust because you don't see a romance between them that doesn't rule it out in future seasons. "More like family," really? If anything, Ichabod's interactions are more familial with his canon wife on the show. Nothing about Ichabod and Abbie's relationship from day one suggests that that is the way the creators intend it. I could go into detail about the hugs, the handholding, the declarations and vows, the intense eye contact, the flirting, the causal contact, the intimacy, the willingness to die for the other, the way they are so in tune with each other's emotions and moods etc. It's all very intense and intimate, and lays the foundation for something to be explored further than the road.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to your last statement, speaking for myself, I've apparently been fortunate enough to not run across those kinds of comments about Abbie online when talking about this show with other people. Every place I've gone, Abbie, as well as her portrayer, Nicole, have been highly praised and are well-loved. Granted, I pretty much talk about it here, on TV Line and TV Guide's websites, and sometimes on AV Club, too-I've yet to really branch out beyond that to discuss this show elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteBut I will say this: if there are people out there saying that kind of crap about Abbie, or about Nicole Beharie, please by all means do call them out. If I ever run across comments like that, I'll tell them where they can put their stupid, ignorant remarks. I love all the women on this show-Abbie, Jenny, and Katrina-and I hate that there has to be any competition about who's better. But I hate that when it comes to female characters on shows in general-I've always been one to like all the characters on a series I watch on some level or another (unless they're a villain and meant to be disliked. And even then, like in the case of Henry on this show, it's a "love to hate them" sort of deal because the actor plays the evil role so well).
As for the topic of shipping, I've no problem with people doing that-I do it, too. And yes, they can be very beneficial to a show's success. But they're also the very same ones who can bring a show down when they get into ridiculous, stupid shipping wars-when that happens, it messes with the show in a bad way and can really ruin the fun for those out there who either aren't shippers or who do ship, but don't get rabid about it. I have my favorite pairings on shows I love, both canon and non-canon. I love Ichabod/Katrina, and I also love Ichabod/Abbie. But I'm not going to harass the writers about one or the other, I'm not going to start making demands that they do this or that. I want them to tell the story THEY want to tell, not the story I want them to tell. If I don't like the way a story's going on a show, well, that's what fanfiction's for. I think a lot of fans need to remember that.
Hence why I said In My Opinion. Of course, there could be a relationship between them....hopefully the show will do this well, if they should choose this course of action.
ReplyDeleteVery well put. :)
ReplyDeleteThanks :).
ReplyDeleteI am with you on marraige vows meaning something. I like it. Honestly, and I am going to be careful saying this, given folks prediliction to react and respond versus read and comprehend, but here goes....Not every show, when there are male and female main characters, needs to have a romantic element. This is shocking for me, given I am all about the couples....but part of the reason this show works for me, is that it is about the stopping of evil....first and reuniting families (Abby and Her sister, and possibly mother; Craine and his wife and possibly son). I won't be mad at the show if they choose to maintain this path, as it just makes sense.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. I am quite frankly enjoying the story and how the powers that be are telling it.
ReplyDeleteYes, I too think Katrina will wind up being turned .....
ReplyDeleteI also wonder could she be turned into a Horseman herself ?
I am all about shipping. I just am not about it on this show. I love inter racial couples - In fact, I mostly ship those shows that are all about it. However, I just don't feel it for this show.
ReplyDeleteBTW - just because folks don't share your view point, does not invalidate their points. Respecting peoples points of view, helps to build healthy dialogue. Divergent points of view are great, cause who would want everyone to think the same way.
I agree and I am watching this show for myself, so I speak for myself. I find it refreshing having a very old world viewed man hold on to some integrity In his devotion and beliefs. Too often you see this formula of an immortal man blended within the 21st century, leaving nothing about his original makeup. I think it's sweet the devotion the show is holding onto a married couple surrounded by War. It's not the show, only part of the story. But I enjoy it. It's a little hope in all that evil and death. Same with Abbie and Jenny holding onto their strained relationship. You need your loved ones to fight for the most. Saving the world isn't just for the strangers in it. Sure Abbie and Ichabod are partners. But they give each other strength through the people they individually love.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good twist but I don't think the writers will make both of only Ichabod's family members turn towards Moloch. Ichabod and Abbie share witness fates. What one happens to one should happen to the other. Otherwise it's to much in one witnesses favour. Namely Abbie.
ReplyDeleteI hear you Raven12, but I think something is going to happen. That was too heavy a comment from Craine to Abby.
ReplyDeleteIt also work because of the time period that Craine is from. Marriage was forever in those days.
ReplyDeletewow!
ReplyDeleteExactly. If he weren't so devoted to his wife and his vows, it'd be easier for me to completely jump on board the Crane/Abbie ship as a thing that should actually happen on the show. But I'm with those who like him honoring his vows (and I think the fact that he is so devoted to his wife would make it that much more powerful if she does wind up deeply betraying him or turning evil or dying down the line, too-his reaction to any of those possibilities could provide a very dramatic, intense moment and course of action). I don't object to the concept of adultery in and of itself being explored on TV shows, 'cause, well, it's a thing that happens. But if a character is going to cheat, it has to fit who they are, it has to be something I could believably see them doing. And I just can't see Ichabod up and leaving Katrina for another woman, even if he does have some sort of attraction to her (and I don't deny that he probably does find Abbie attractive on some level. How could any man not?). And even if Katrina is turned evil or dies or whatever, I think it'd still take Crane some time to fully get over that betrayal or tragedy before he'd consider getting into a new relationship.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying such things absolutely CANNOT happen, 'cause of course they can, and if this show gives us evidence down the line that maybe it's not so implausible for Crane to break his vows that easily, then okay (he knew Katrina was engaged to another man and yet still was interested in her, after all, so...). But as of now, they'd have to really convince me of that possibility before it happens, is all.
Plus, I freely admit I'm a bit of a sucker for the "unrequited feelings/love" trope, so if there is any sort of attraction between Crane and Abbie and they want to explore it and wonder about it but can't for various reasons, I feel that provides its own set of interesting moments for shippers to play around with and have fun exploring in their discussions or their fanfics or whatever, too :).
Not true, divorce was possible and most marriages was a joining of family's rather than couple. But written as Ichabod is, his marriage was for love alone. According to Ichabod's journals both their parents disapproved of their match. But they had each other, that was all that mattered to him. Have you read the journals? I recommended it. It tells more than the show can cover.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I say, written as he is. According to the journals, Katrina lives in Ichabod's soul.
But I don't see the writers making Ichabod's family evil. Both his wife and son. I would consider the twist but I honestly don't see it. Plus his journals give a good vide impression of Katrina.
ReplyDeleteAgreed :). I just want to see these people having their fun, silly moments amidst their attempts to fight the apocalypse and all the creepy creatures that come with it. Anything else that happens beyond that point is just a nice bonus.
ReplyDeleteThe show it driven on cryptic messages. The obvious ones are the ones to mislead the most, because they are too predictable.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on that, and I hope they don't make her evil. I think that'd be too easy and obvious a route to go. I would love it, though, if they expanded more on Katrina's powers and made it where they are being used for good on behalf of the mission Crane and Abbie are on...and yet Katrina's not afraid to get a little dirty with her powers to help the team out along the way as well. I know they're saying she'll escape from Abraham soon, but I certainly wouldn't mind her getting a little manipulative with Abraham's mind to allow her, Crane, Abbie, and Jenny to get whatever information they need for their mission.
ReplyDeleteIf any of that makes sense :p.
Yes, you are right that divorce was possible...but it was rarely done.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I wish she would USE her powers. That would be awesome in my books.
ReplyDeleteYes. This. Lord knows they've got a killer special effects department, after all, so they could easily really have some fun with her powers in that regard. Here's hoping they do more with that down the line.
ReplyDeleteAs much sense as if it was coming from me :)
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with the writers slow approach with Katrina, but I think too many people have set their minds about her from Season 1, and a huge powerful dose from her when she has been so quiet would only raise more 'is she evil' questions. With 18 episodes I hope by 9/10 she has revealed her full potential.
I do feel some people compare Katrina to Abbie and Jenny. If that is the case then it's no wonder she will disappoint. I see Katrina as one of the good characters but a complete opposite to the modern women. 21st women have had more freedom than Katrina. She works within her demure lady persona. I love that difference.
thought this show was about saving the world from evil not working to setup a romance between the two main leas.
ReplyDeleteFLOVE!
ReplyDeleteA fair argument indeed. Yeah, I get the frustration about taking their time with her character-as my posts indicate, I want more to be done with her, too. But you're right, there can be a benefit to that approach, too. We viewers do tend to be an impatient bunch sometimes :p. It's easy to forget that sometimes a slow buildup is necessary, even if it's not always "action-packed".
ReplyDeleteExcellent point about the comparisons, too, and why they're so different in their approaches. I too like her demure lady persona, and it'll be very interesting to see how she reconciles that part of herself with her sudden thrust into the modern world, and observing how the modern woman behaves.
Its kinda crazy, that she hasn't used her powers thus far. I know she wants to get closer to her son, to see if she might a) get to know him and b) sway his allegiance. Henry, even though he appears older then them all, is still locked in the traumas of being left behind and discarded. It remains to be seen as to whether she will be able to reach him. A mother's love is very powerful, and comes in many forms, as we see with Abby's and her sisters relationship with their mother.
ReplyDeleteWell I could not see Abbie or Jenny taking on Katrina's role as a spy. They are too impatient and have other weaponry resources. But then I can't see Katrina storming into a house guns drown. Which is why I think Katrina partnering with Jenny within the group is a great idea. Fire hot temperamental Jenny, and calm as gentle water Katrina....they can learn a lot from each other. It will also give both actresses a prominent role in the show and not separate the witnesses too much.
ReplyDeleteYeah, maybe there's a good reason she's holding off, or maybe she's wary of the havoc they can wreck along the way-the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" sort of mindset, if you will.
ReplyDeleteI'm really looking forward to seeing how she and Ichabod handle everything with Henry. 'Cause, yeah, he's their son, so I totally sympathize with Katrina's hopes to try and save him. But, he's also a manipulative psycho who's one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, so...I sympathize with Ichabod wanting to stop him, too. It's going to be fascinating to see where Ichabod and Katrina agree and disagree in regards to him-not your typical parental dilemma, for sure!
And yeah, the parallels between Katrina's feelings for Henry and everything with Abbie and Jenny and their mom will be a good thing to explore, too. I'm looking forward to getting to know more about Mama Mills as well-that family's backstory is so interesting from the bits we've learned thus far.
Exactly. They all have their strengths they can play to.
ReplyDeleteI would LOVE some Katrina/Jenny interaction. Ooh. That would be fun. Yes.
Katrina, still has the biggest weapon of all....magic.
ReplyDeleteGiven that Henry will attack his mother with a powerful illness, I wonder if this will now sway Katrina into using hers on her son. She must have learnt by then that Jeremy can not be reached with the gentle approach. Abraham is different. I don't think he ever gave Katrina the credit for being an individual spirit in her own right. Soft approach works on that fool.
ReplyDeleteHenry is just plain naughty! He needs a good spanking.
ReplyDeleteThis made me laugh :D. Yes. He does.
ReplyDeleteThat's another reason I think people are confusing and getting disheartened by. Ichabod said Katrina was the 'most powerful witch' no one on else on the show said that. How many witches does Ichabod know? He has never seen Katrina work her magic.
ReplyDeleteKatrina can't be the most powerful brcause then the questions raise
Why do we need witnesses then?
Why isn't she that powerful to get out of purgatory on her own?
She must be evil?
I'm not expecting fireworks from her, just enough to establish that yes she has powers which she only uses when necessary. She was a spy I during the war, surely she relied on her wit more than magic. An being labeled a witch would only haven't gotten her burnt that sooner.
So yes I hope she gives enough but not too much and not to becomes the 'get out if the jam' plot device.
☺️don't feed my imagination. I'm already trying to curb by infatuation with father and son!
ReplyDeleteI think expecting Katrina to get out of purgatory with magic is a bit much, given she is fighting forces of biblical evil and magic is said to be grounded in earthly endeavors. We are talking bible evil versus earthly....may not be the same thing. You are right the writers need to clear this up. Yes, I am in agreement that she needs to use it. Its weird that she doesn't, but it also makes me believe that she has a longer plan in motion - which is to convert her son to her side.
ReplyDeleteLOL!
ReplyDeleteRaven12 and Angela you are a delight!
BTW - I can't follow you Raven as you are private, but know that I would if I could. I am enjoying myself immensely! Angela I am already following!
@Angela and @Bertha Thank you both for a most interesting debate and conversation.🌺
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry I didn't realise. I don't often come to this site. I'm enjoying both you companies.
ReplyDeleteSee SH fandom it is possible :) 🌺
You're welcome! And likewise :). This is the sort of discussion I love having about TV shows.
ReplyDeleteFollowing you!
ReplyDeleteHopefully, you guys are into other shows on the board. I am currently into Sleepy Hollow, Arrow, The Flash, The Originals, and obsessed with the Fosters. (Also many other shows!)
Angela: I wish that was the case, but sadly that isn't the reality. And what's even sadder is that it is mainly women spreading the vitriol and doing the bashing. Nothing irks me more than pitching women against other, especially in relation to a man.
ReplyDeleteBertha: Since you've replied to three of my comments, and in the interest of not repeating myself I will respond in one post. You've taken my passion for the show to continue beyond this current season as not respecting other commenters opinions. You mention opening up "healthy dialogue," but then state that some replies are an overreaction. This is exactly the type of reply received whenever I've written in support of Ichabod and Abbie eventually getting together, which is why I took exception to your comment. Fair enough you don't see them as romantic, but "friends," is an apt description for the relationship as it stands. I've seen too many people use "family" to sum up their relationship in order to strip Abbie of her feminity (and other detestable things).
Isn't it a contradiction to say on the one hand that you don't want a romance on the show, but on the other we have the Crane marriage and love triangle with Abraham?
Lastly, why the need to mention "interracial couples?" When you do that you make it about race, which frankly these for and against arguments always seem to boil down to.
🌺Thankyou for the follow.
ReplyDeleteI watch Sleepy Hollow, The originals, trying desperately to quit TVD, resurrection, Turn, Salem, The Strain, Penny Dreadful, GOT, Vikings, Outlander, In the Flesh, .....I love shows with an old world feel. An usually I watch season while after it's finale. But Sleepy Hollow is an except his year :)
hmmm... I hear you on the interracial couples. You are right it is about love and not race. However, it is not inappropriate to call it such. By using the word in no way reinforces, racialized norms. Nor is it prejudicial.
ReplyDeleteThis is not the reason why I don't see Abby and Craine together....frankly I just see them as working towards saving the world. By having them in a relationship, this would in some way dilute this purpose....which to me comes before romance. As well, I like Craine with his wife - the powers that be have done nothing to disuade me from not liking them together. Yes, Katrina lied, but to save Craine....because her love for him was just that great.
By seeing Abby and Craine as friends, by no means strips Abby of her femininity.
No way! For too long Black women on screen have been overly sexualized, due to the history of slavery in the America's. In fact, having Abby get with Craine would only reinforce these stereotypical notions of Black women, rather then to dispel them, or deconstruct them for what they are. Remember, Icabod Craine comes from this time period, where slavery was still thought of as being ok, he fought in the Civil War against it (arguably this war was about much more than this -- but this is for another post), but by and large he is still a product of this era.
I like that he respects Abby and feels that he can work with her, but no, I don't think that it would be a good idea for the show to put them together. There are many historical issues that would not make this ok.
We are all passionate about the show, but as I have said, its hard to dialogue when folks don't respect that people have the right to an alternate point of view. :) But its all good!
Oh yes, FLOVE Outlander! Still watching TVD (loving Damon and Bonnie - now there's a couple!), and Salem. Same with me, I am all about binge watching!
ReplyDeleteAngela: I wish that was the case, but sadly that isn't the reality. And what's even sadder is that it is mainly women spreading the vitriol and doing the bashing. Nothing irks me more than pitching women against other, especially in relation to a man.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct about that, unfortunately. I really don't understand women tearing other women down. No man, I don't care how good a person they are, is worth that. And if a man is encouraging such nasty competition between females for his own benefit, he's DEFINITELY not worth any woman's time or respect.
And mind, I understand simply disliking a character, male or female. I get that some characters won't connect with certain viewers. That's fine. Just...the rabid hatred I've seen some people employ for fictional characters really boggles my mind. Unless they ran over the viewer's dog or beat their children or something...said viewers should.chill and back off a little on the extreme hate.
I am with you on this, 100 percent. I love tv, but at the end of the day, its not real.
ReplyDeleteIts horrible that folks tear one another down for fictional characters.
I say we all work towards eradicating this and respecting all POV regardless if they are not our own.
I find bingeing whole fun. After a warm bubble, cuddled in my large comfy sofa, with/without friends and hot chocolate. Best thing about watching so many shows. When one season finishes another starts. So there always one binge or another 😊
ReplyDeleteThe only plot keeping me on TVD is Bonnie and Damon's , only wish Stefan was amongst them. Tried of everyone else.
Do you watch any British shows?
Aw, thank you! So are you! I need to add to my follows list, it would seem!
ReplyDeleteAs for TV shows we follow, heh, I must say I'm not nearly as up on a lot of the popular shows out there as you guys are. A lot of my favorite shows are ones that ended years ago :p. But as far as current shows, aside from this one I'm also a fan of "Criminal Minds" and I'm enjoying "How to Get Away with Murder" thus far. I also like "Bates Motel". I have a bit of a thing for shows with a creepy, dark bent, it seems :p. And for lighter fare, I love "Community" as well.
I would like to check out some of these other shows you guys list sometime, though-I'm not a comic book person, yet there's things about "Arrow" that have me rather curious, for instance.
Exactly. No argument there.
ReplyDeleteI will gladly co-sign that suggestion! Debate and discussion about TV is great, I love the variety of opinions about characters and storylines and whatnot. And as observed above, it can be done in a mature, respectful, fun way. So yeah, let's have more of that for sure.
Angela: Yes girl you must check out Arrow. Flove. Felicity and Oliver are the thing!
ReplyDeleteI too am watching "How to Get Away with Murder", well let's be frank all of Shonda's shows. :)
Raven12: I love Brit TV. I am currently only watching Sherlock. But FLOVE Misfits and Being Human.
Hehe, ah, yes, I've heard all about the Olicity thing :D. Yeah, it sounds like there's some really exciting, intense stories on there and some fun characters, so that'll be on my "to watch" list for sure.
ReplyDeleteI've not seen "Scandal", but I have seen a bit of "Grey's Anatomy". I remember seeing a two-part season finale for that series involving a shooter roaming a hospital-I liked that one, it was really tense and moving.
Regarding British TV: old series, but I like "Spaced". Then again, I tend to like pretty much anything Simon Pegg/Nick Frost do :).
If there is a path to redemption for Henry, it's going to be via Katrina. I think Abby was correct in her assessment of the tie between the two and I think at some point it's going to provide a critical turning point for Henry. Despite everything he has done, he will still want her approval.
ReplyDelete@Bertha and @Angela so glad we have some shows in common. I'll Check out the ones you've mentioned that I don't see. Love how a healthy conversation makes you friends.
ReplyDeleteI'm from England so most of the shows I watch are British, Luther, In the Flesh, Whitechapel, Sherlock......
@Bertha and @Angela. Very well put. Wish I could add more but honestly I've only come in view to this issue of interracial couples in America from this show. In British shows it's so common that you don't bat an eye at the coupling.
ReplyDeleteMy wanting Ichabod and Katrina together has nothing to do with race ( goodness I'm of mix heritage as well) it's because within the story they are a devoted couple who have War/family drama separating them. Amongst all the evil and magical destruction it will be good to see those fighting to keep the world safe, also fighting to regain their lives with their loved ones.
I don't see how his will reinforce these stereotypes. In fact, it would be quite the opposite as firstly, we don't have an abundance of black female leads, and secondly interracial relationships between the male and female lead on TV is still very rare. Also, Ichabod respects, admires and cares for Abbie, and the very nature of their partnership is one of equality. Furthermore, the show has established that Ichabod was very progressive for his time and unconcerned about race (even whilst still fighting on the side of the British.) In the pilot, he was more shocked by Abbie's station and ladies wearing trousers than her skin colour; so I cannot fathom why her race would deter him from pursuing a relationship with her if he felt so inclined.
ReplyDeleteYou feel as if you cannot have an interesting discussion with me because
I'm not accepting of viewpoints that disagree with my own, yet what you have written is very insulting and similar to some of the arguments given as to why Ichabod would never find Abbie desirable or worthy as a romantic partner. I can only guess as to the historical issues that couldn't' make it work in light of your comment that: he "feels" he can work with her - I'm not even going to begin to dissect that sentence.
The stripping Abbie of her femininity comment was in connection to some
people using the argument that they are more like siblings to negate a possible relationship and deny any attraction between them.
This is the last I'm going to write on this as it's clear that we will never
see eye to eye on the subject, and because of the offensive nature of your last post.
Or on the other hand, one would think the show would be about saving the world from evil and not preserving the marriage of a couple
ReplyDeletei don't really give a shit about either. i just want to watch a show about saving the world not a romance/soap couched in it.
ReplyDeleteWow and wow. I had almost given up finding a truly open mind out here. I am so tired of the now cliché, albeit obligatory adulterous arc shows embrace. And they do so because adultery is so widely accepted, even celebrated. One CAN have a close opposite sex friend, without benefits. I am in my 50s and not ashamed to say that I thought it was a good thing to have "friends with benefits" because that meant they had HEALTH INSURANCE! I have a few very close male friends, some since childhood, and we have weathered some major, major storms and yet refrained from cheating on or dropping our significant others to be with each other. Like you pointed out, committed means something to us. I do not need to see Ichabod and Abbie together. Katrina made the best choices she could given her circumstances. Whether her intentions were to save her family or the world, she did what she thought was best. She should not punished for doing so. And for the record, Henry/Jeremy is a whiney punk! Why should he be excused for his monstrous choices? Abbie and Jenny were orphaned and thrown in purgatory, yet they are FIGHTING the demons not becoming them!
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with everything you have said... soo much more can be explaned about who Katrina was before she became the wife and mother of these 2 very different important characters. I also agree why is it necessary to have the 2 leads 'joined at the hip'for every episode just because they are the witnesses. They are adults and can surely work not only on their own but alongside others and not have to be in each others pockets at all times.
ReplyDelete