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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Arrow - Episode 3.21 - Al Sah-Him - Sneak Peeks *Updated*

29 Apr 2015

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Update: 29th April Here is a 2nd Sneak Peek, thanks to Sparky.




Sneak Peek 1

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306 comments:

  1. Koky27 April 2015 at 22:31

    Yeah I'm not watching that and not just because I don't want to be spoiled.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Brandonrowe1427 April 2015 at 22:32

    I believe the episode name is Al Sah-Him.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:37

    wOw. Gone for the emotional one here. Almost teared up.
    Fel already won quote of the Week: Concealed identity

    ReplyDelete
  4. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 22:37

    where Laurel how could she not be there.....

    ReplyDelete
  5. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:37

    I assume this is the begging of the episode, she will get there with them.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:38

    Probably job. But she will join them.

    ReplyDelete
  7. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:39

    because she's not Felicity

    ReplyDelete
  8. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:40

    God dammit Mac. Just stop. That is bad flame war material.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Koky27 April 2015 at 22:40

    Training with Nyssa probably. Maybe that's when she'll call asking for their help.

    ReplyDelete
  10. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:40

    Felicity suggesting Diggle getting a costume... YES! I'm excited to see diggle in a mask!

    Also I absolutely love that they're having this dinner. Whether or not thea has interacted with Felicity or Diggle, Oliver brought them all together and they're family whether they like it or not. So I appreciate the bonding.

    ReplyDelete
  11. XeXu1827 April 2015 at 22:40

    Its nice to see them all supporting Thea

    ReplyDelete
  12. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:40

    not really, it sparks the flames and has some truth to it.

    Felicity is considered more major by fans and the show, Laurel is a mere side character now

    ReplyDelete
  13. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:40

    all of them except Laurel you mean

    ReplyDelete
  14. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:44

    Dude no one cares. There's no secret conspiracy to screw Laurel over for Felicity or whatever crap. It's obnoxious. You want the truth? Laurel doesn't have the emotional connect Diggle and Felicity has. Or the relevance of Thea at this dinner. And she's going to help latter in the episode so your point doesn't even work well.

    ReplyDelete
  15. XeXu1827 April 2015 at 22:44

    yeah well...Im used to it by now

    ReplyDelete
  16. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:44

    I figured Laurel isn't there because she's with Nyssa? Laurel helping Nyssa is the main premise of the episode so it has nothing to do with the fact that she's not Felicity.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:46

    R U bit out for blood?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:47

    He's always out for blood.

    ReplyDelete
  19. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:47

    Oh come the f**k on. Emotional connect? Sure, why is that again? Yeah right because her characters screentime got dramatically reduced to make more time for "the original team arrow".

    Dude, you want the truth? Laurel is an obstacle, the show knows it can't get rid of her because there is a.) a small but existing fanbase and b.) a contract with Cassidy. This show has shifted its lead ladies, there's no conspiracy (something I never claimed there was) just a very clear intent to reduce her screentime to a minimum to reduce the backlash.


    Can you deny that Felicity is the lead lady these days? If you can't my point stands

    ReplyDelete
  20. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:47

    He likes to create controversy lol

    ReplyDelete
  21. XeXu1827 April 2015 at 22:47

    Seems like it. All we have to do is not get into it. I enjoy as much of Laurel as they give us and Im a Felicity fan too. So Im not gonna get into a fight for them.

    ReplyDelete
  22. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:48

    Nah just adressing the obivious fan hypocrisy that doesen't like to talk about the touchy issue of ignoring the significance of Laurel (iE Laurels scenes being cut last week, minimal screentime)

    ReplyDelete
  23. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 22:49

    Laurel know what it like to lose Oliver already.....I pretty sure she and Thea knows each other before the island days

    ReplyDelete
  24. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:49

    no, I'm just out for bullsh*t that is being blatantly ignored by fans that really try VERY hard to ignore the negative aspects of the show.


    Man, it's like you let someone purposefully punch yourself so you only see 70% of the show

    ReplyDelete
  25. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:49

    And you're wrong as f*ck. Laurel is here because the writers like Cassidy, and clearly want to write her character. If they didn't Sara would never have died, Laurel would never have become the Black Canary, and here's something you can't seem to get: a decent amount of people (actually a lot) like Laurel now. So this defend the wronged thing is getting gratuitous.

    ReplyDelete
  26. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:50

    ^ this

    ReplyDelete
  27. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:50

    I know and I like U for that, but Ur bit pushing it more than usual.
    I agree with U and hate what the writers did to the character even though the screen time she gets now is much better than in S03

    ReplyDelete
  28. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:50

    Y'all better calm down and stop swearing. This is a tv show, no need to get too worked up over it!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Sparky27 April 2015 at 22:51

    Who says this is the first dinner of this type? 3 weeks have passed since the end of 3x20.

    ReplyDelete
  30. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:51

    it's not, because her character got wronged. Robbed out of screentime. Making place for characters the fans enjoy more. Tell me, why does it matter so much to you to ignore the drastic reduction of Laurel ever since season 2.


    Laurel missed multiple episodes since season 2 came along, unlike Felicity who is omnipresent

    ReplyDelete
  31. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 22:51

    what significance? you say it yourself, she gets very little screentime in some episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  32. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:52

    the show ignoring her significance but you strengthen my point: she gets very little screentime and is given no significance.


    So....I agree

    ReplyDelete
  33. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:52

    Dude this is a forum. Everyone here gets worked up about Arrow and tv shows. And I'm sorry, but Mac's constant need to start flame wars is annoying.

    ReplyDelete
  34. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:52

    Hey Mac! I've always had trouble figuring out Laurel's importance to the show... What's your take on it? Because I honestly don't get why she's important to the main premise of the show (Oliver's journey). At this point, she could leave the show and make little to no impact on the overall arc.

    ReplyDelete
  35. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:53

    we still have season 3 and they just recently cut Laurels goodbye to Oliver at the airport...wich really wasn't important right? Because she actually knew about Thea and wasn't shown to know about it

    ReplyDelete
  36. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 22:53

    A lot people also don't like her. And that's putting it nicely.

    ReplyDelete
  37. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 22:53

    you're confusing me. where's the hypocrisy in that?

    ReplyDelete
  38. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:53

    wich is my point. She used to and should have had impact. However now she's treated like a second tier character in favor of other characters.


    Wich is my problem here....you're really not disproving anything there to me

    ReplyDelete
  39. ivan27 April 2015 at 22:54

    LOL Diggle "do not say costume" poor Thea, i completely forgot Thea and Oliver live together

    ReplyDelete
  40. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:55

    I hoped they would at least release it post episode, but they cut it together so it seems she had no clue.
    I assume there were a couple of scenes cut along the way and it's awful. They are really loosing themselves when they writer for Laurel. All over the place.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Aydrian27 April 2015 at 22:55

    Wait, are you telling me they're giving more screen time to characters that people actually want to watch?


    Wow! Mind. Blown! This show should be more like TVD, where they keep giving screen time to characters no one gives a crap about, because no one has ever complained about THAT before coughenzocough

    ReplyDelete
  42. Graydon27 April 2015 at 22:55

    Right. Or we could have different perceptions. Oh wait that's it. But sure insult me again it really proves how right you are. Oh wait no it doesn't.

    ReplyDelete
  43. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:55

    whenever one mentions Laurel being ignored as a character the defense brigade jumps ship and claims that everything is fine. Ignoring the fact that she has been reduced as a character is (in my opinion) the wrong approach to this but looking at Graydons comments the "ignore all the flaws" mentallity is still there

    ReplyDelete
  44. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:55

    The difference between Laurel and Felicity is that Laurel got her OWN arc. Felicity got most of her screentime this season because of her interactions with Ray. She supported Ray's arc. She was basically the support for the supporting actor. IDK about you, but that says a lot.


    Felicity didn't rob Laurel's screentime because their roles aren't interchangeable.

    ReplyDelete
  45. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:56

    wich is my point...and again the defense squad does its best to discredit the person that has issues with the episode.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Koky27 April 2015 at 22:56

    Marc released the script pages for that scene.

    ReplyDelete
  47. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:56

    LOL I know this is a forum, but sometimes it's more effective to be calm than to swear and be angry.

    ReplyDelete
  48. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:56

    thank you, it's true.

    And that is why she has been reduced, ignoring that fact is worse than condoning it.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:56

    U want to say that Laurel didn't have impact on Oliver and his journey in the first season?
    And than that was pushed aside with the raise of Olicity and that hideous addiction storyline, not to mention them making her crazy?

    ReplyDelete
  50. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:57

    I never thought she had an impact on the show whatsoever. Not even in season 1 when she was a love interest. She's never had importance, which is my main issue with her character.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Spindae227 April 2015 at 22:57

    Really had no clue? Where? Tw or Insta?
    And terribly that is even more demeaning! She didn't even get a clip.

    ReplyDelete
  52. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 22:58

    now I get it. that's true. some people will always defend something just for the principle of it. I see it all the time, it's destroying and discussion.

    ReplyDelete
  53. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:58

    I'm not even starting a flame war here, I have a genuine issue with the blatant and constant absence of a character that should be significant to the show.

    I know you're havng a REALLY hard time to see the shows flaws but let's be fair here: Laurel has been reduced to a third/fourth tier character even missing episodes despite being credited second and originally intended to be the lead female. It's just wrong in my book to denounce your characters like that

    ReplyDelete
  54. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:58

    I think Stephen said in an interview that the key people who guided Oliver and helped him change into the man he is today are Diggle and FElicity. He didn't mention Laurel. So no, I don't really think that she had an impact on Oliver's journey in season 1. I actually think that she made him regress as a character. But that's just my opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  55. maclives27 April 2015 at 22:59

    I disagree, she was the emotional link that held Oliver alive on the island, a motivator and an ally. Ever since the end of season 1 she has been significantly reduced (can you disagree on that?)

    ReplyDelete
  56. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 22:59

    I want to know, why do you think she SHOULD be significant to the show? Because she's BC in the comics or...?

    ReplyDelete
  57. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:00

    this comment hurts and shows what's wrong with this show.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Koky27 April 2015 at 23:00

    Tumblr. And Oliver didn't tell her what happened that's why she was surprised when Felicity told her.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Brian27 April 2015 at 23:00

    Sara Diggle's face when Diggle says "costume".

    ReplyDelete
  60. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:02

    Are you disagreeing with me? :p


    I think Oliver sleeping with Laurel after he told Tommy to go after her just showed that his character regresses when he's around her.Again, that's my opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  61. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:02

    That wasn't ment as an insult just pointing out that you're oblivious to a flaw the show has (as am I, I couldn't care less about Malcolms shitty writing this season).


    The Laurel situation (should we call it that?) is depressing because it really goes to show how removed the show is from its original intentions. Want to see it or don't, the fact that Laurel is being mostly degraded these days is pretty much indesputable simply due to having missed several episodes

    ReplyDelete
  62. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:02

    She was the only one who cared about the Arrow, who didn't punish him away and supported his quest for justice. How isn't that impacting Oliver and his path?
    The issue is that people confuse Laurel behavior toward the cheating as*hole who hurt her and her actions and support she gave the Arrow, someone who finally did something right for the city.
    Apparently Stephen didn't really followed the show? Nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:03

    Mac for god's sake I'm not in denial or whatever crap you're saying. I just perceive Arrow differently. Yes her role has been changed. That happens on TV shows. But she's still important. The Brick arc, her becoming Black Canary, helping Oliver when he's arrested. Helping fight the league as Black Canary, and now helping to save Nyssa and get Oliver back. She's still important. I agree, but they're not denouncing her. At all.

    ReplyDelete
  64. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:03

    Oh she's been reduced after season 1 that's for sure. I also agree that her photo was Oliver's link to his old life. However, their relationship changed and in the end, she became less important to Oliver. That's life though. sometimes we just lose that connection we've had with people.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:04

    But Mac we don't know it's original intentions. Besides becoming more comic book orientated and including Felicity. And resurrecting Sara we know nothing about how this deviates.

    ReplyDelete
  66. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:04

    I accept your opinion but it's very clear how the show change is accepted.


    Originally Katie was cast as the female lead, what is she now? A sidecharacter replaced by [insert name of female character I'm not going after right now but forces others to ignore the negative aspect of her being upgraded]


    That's my issue, the show was intended to be something else, now we have....this

    ReplyDelete
  67. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 23:04

    I think the writers are scared of the Olicity/Felicity fans and how they react to Laurel get some bonidng with Oliver. It mess up situation

    ReplyDelete
  68. Shannon27 April 2015 at 23:05

    Ohhhh myyyyyyy goddddddd! BEST. SNEAK PEEK. EVER!!!! I'm so sad and so happy at the same time!!! I got everything I wanted in this clip. And how cute is baby Sara!

    ReplyDelete
  69. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:05

    Because Laurel was hyped up by the show itself as being important to Oliver and his family ever since. Letting that aspect go hurt the show more than it helped.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:06

    I doubt that. If you watch 3x20 and her scene with Laurel on youtube. Shippers love the scene and Laurel in it. She's not a threat anymore. In fact a lot are pissed she wan't more in that episode.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:06

    Thanks for the info gonna check it out. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  72. Shannon27 April 2015 at 23:06

    It was beautiful. I've missed Diggle and Thea conversations.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Koky27 April 2015 at 23:07

    Anytime :D

    ReplyDelete
  74. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:07

    we don't know but we do know the initial casting of Katie as the female lead intended her to be more significant than she is now. It's saddening for me to see that the character was intended to be more than she now is (I counted she missed 4 episodes since her initial appearance, Felicity none, Diggle none

    ReplyDelete
  75. ohlisa27 April 2015 at 23:08

    I'm kind of glad they cut it, since it was just Oliver lying to her again, although I thought the part where he asked her to look over the city would've been a nice moment for them. If they had to cut the hangar scene, they should've had Laurel ask Felicity how Thea was when Laurel saw her in the doorway, first off (come to think of it, they should've had her do that anyway). That way at least we'd know if she knew she was hurt.

    ReplyDelete
  76. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:08

    That's the nature of TV shows, mac. Some characters are important, then they lose importance as the series goes on. Sometimes it's because the character simply isn't working and the writers have trouble with said characters, other times because the fans don't care about the character...


    The only role Felicity replaced Laurel is being the romantic lead. Laurel still has her own arc which Felicity doesn't. Otherwise their roles aren't interchangeable. Felicity had more screentime this season because of Ray. If Laurel needs to be a romantic lead in order to be important, then she doesn't belong on this show.

    ReplyDelete
  77. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:09

    yes because she wasn`t interacting with Oilver. They actually cut out a bonding scene between her and Oliver (why is that?)


    I don't particullary care for Laurel (give me Malcolm and I'm fine) but it's upsetting me that the shows willingness to deviate from its source, original plan and character structure is ignored and NOT blamed for the shows current very bad state (it's not just Laurel in that aspect, the show chose to take a different direction in season 2 wich certainly had an effect on the mess we have in 3)

    ReplyDelete
  78. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:09

    Just read it. Hmmm hoped it was much more. Maybe on the second page is more.
    Hoping for the scene to get released in the dvd set.

    ReplyDelete
  79. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 23:09

    Felicity miss the "The Magacian" episode

    ReplyDelete
  80. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:09

    I believe Felicity missed a bunch in season one. After her first appearance. Yeah but Laurel just joined Team Arrow and became a hero. Diggle and Felicity have been there far longer. Of course they're in more episodes. The show is about Oliver as a hero.

    ReplyDelete
  81. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:10

    she appeared in a scene in the end

    ReplyDelete
  82. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:10

    no, she was recurring, I'm talking of when under contract. She never missed an episode she was credited for unlike Katie.

    ReplyDelete
  83. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:10

    I guess it's how we perceive things. I thought Laurel's interactions with Oliver hurt the show more. In fact, I think Laurel flourishes and is more likable when she has an arc separate from him.

    ReplyDelete
  84. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 23:10

    I completely agree. I bet a lot of viewers wouldn't even notice if she would just be gone.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Koky27 April 2015 at 23:10

    Maybe when she saw Felicity crying she thought Thea died and was afraid to ask. I did like that Oliver told her to fix her relationship with Quentin but essentially the scene wasn't that great because , as you said, once again he was lying to her.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Koky27 April 2015 at 23:12

    The second page he asked her to look after the city and fix her relationship with her dad.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Nick27 April 2015 at 23:12

    Ughhhh!!! This Sneak Peek did critical damage to my feelings...

    ReplyDelete
  88. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:13

    Time probably. I like the deviation straight up adaptions bore me a lot, and honestly from hat I've heard villain wise Green Arrow's gallery isn't great. And the show is not in a bad state. It knows where it's going, where it's taking the characters and how it wants to do it. Maybe not as good as two, but this isn't Gotham where it has no idea of what it's doing.

    ReplyDelete
  89. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:13

    Or it's because the fandom has gotten so greedy and agressive that the writers decide to give into fan demands (wich were there, the "Laurel has to leave" crap is still coming up to this day) wich....I admit is where my issue is coming from.

    The writers obviously let themselves influence by the internet fanbase and are purposefully leaving her out of certain stuff.


    It's not about the romance but the personal relationship to a character the fandom would explode over. Have you seen a profound Laurel/Oliver friendship scene in season 3 that wasn't Oliver being a dick to her? Me neither. Why is that? Because the writers picked up the soap for the internet fanbase

    ReplyDelete
  90. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:14

    Yeah but again she was on Team Arrow and is the only hacker. It makes sense.

    ReplyDelete
  91. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:14

    And I feel like the romantic interaction between Felicity and Oliver hurt the show...guess we got to learn to accept each others points?

    ReplyDelete
  92. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:15

    I don't ignore the flaws. Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  93. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:15

    really? Because as far as I remember they did well when she wasn't around as well. The hacker focus and need for a hacker was introduced with her.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:15

    Thanks again. Ur sweet. This stuff quickly got out of control.

    ReplyDelete
  95. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:16

    I feel like you do. Moses

    ReplyDelete
  96. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:16

    And they did better after she joined.

    ReplyDelete
  97. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:16

    I think you underestimate the writers/EPs of the show. The writers know that the internet is a very small portion of the fandom (less than 5%, if I'm not mistaken), so that's why I never believe the fan pandering argument.


    Even the writers have stated that they've dropped the ball on Laurel numerous times because they didn't know how to write her or incorporate her into the center fold. What does that have to do with the fandom? That's all on the writers for not understanding the character.


    YES. Episode 2 when Oliver supported Laurel and listened to her and comforted her about Sara. That's when I saw a glimpse of a friendship between them. But Oliver got pissed off at Laurel because he thought she was going to get herself killed by becoming a vigilante. That's why he's aggressive with her. Because he feels as though Laurel is in over her head and she doesn't even know. It makes SENSE narratively

    ReplyDelete
  98. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:17

    F*ck we're alike.

    ReplyDelete
  99. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:17

    Yeah and TVD is such a good example to use because it's Arrow replacing the heroes with hot vampires

    ReplyDelete
  100. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:17

    The issue is that they didn't have a direction for Laurel. They tried to do something in S02 and went all over the place lost themselves and than went to avoiding her and reduce her screentime.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Nick27 April 2015 at 23:17

    Isn't that freaking annoying? Where's the super bond Laurel and Thea had in Season 1?
    What are the writers thinking by not having Laurel there? In Season 1/2 it was because she didn't know Digg or Felicity... And now? Seriously, this clip is about supporting Thea, not about Team Arrow! ¬¬

    ReplyDelete
  102. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:18

    It's really creepy isn't it? I'm constantly afraid that I have a canadian(?) twin :P


    Great discussing with you though, it's not everyday you find people to actually withstand such a discussion

    ReplyDelete
  103. Shannon27 April 2015 at 23:19

    I'm not gonna lie I had tears in my eyes.

    ReplyDelete
  104. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:19

    I guess. I honestly feel like they made some missteps with O/F. BUT, I feel like what hurt the show more was bad writing with the LoA arc and redeeming Malcolm and Ra's being a nonentity. O/F are the least of the shows worries when the main plot of the show is lacking. People tend to use romance as a scapegoat because it's the easiest thing to blame... But there are far bigger issues such as structural ones, the main plot being nonsensical, the main villain, the murder mystery being totally dragged out for no reason...

    ReplyDelete
  105. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 23:19

    she either busy with work, training with Nyssa bonding with her father or who knows

    ReplyDelete
  106. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:19

    Wich isn't to the characters credit but the writers way of making things easier via Deus Ex Machina (Felicity hacks quickly into a highly guarded super computer...yep...totally not a deus ex machina)

    ReplyDelete
  107. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:19

    I know, right? It's like I have a American doppelgänger. Agreed, not enough people are willing to discuss and can have one.

    ReplyDelete
  108. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:19

    Kill me with the feelings why don't you? At last a Felicity/Thea interaction. I have to look outside. Is the pigs flying?


    So its 3rd episode in a row now that Laurel Lance has not been included in Team Arrow/important character building events. So what does the show want me to think? Is she friends with these people? Is she a part of this team, this family? Should I, a viewer who barely started to like Laurel even care about her?

    ReplyDelete
  109. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:20

    Oh no doubt. She's hollywood hacking in its bubbliest form.

    ReplyDelete
  110. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:20

    Not, it's about appeasing the "original Team Arrow 4evaaaa " fanbase that is ment to accept Thea as the 4th wheel now

    ReplyDelete
  111. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:20

    I am with you. Its hatrick now. Three episodes in a row. I am pissed off because my logical mind is annoying me.

    ReplyDelete
  112. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:21

    At least we can fight and talk later on, it's like we're keeping a pretty good scoreboard of not harbouring hard feelings :P

    ReplyDelete
  113. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:21

    ODA coming and crashing the party. Everything Laurel related was digested down under.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:22

    As friends I like them. But I prefer her interacting with Roy, or Felicity and Thea. There isn't that baggage and bad history. Plus this show can always use more female friendship.

    ReplyDelete
  115. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:22

    thank god, I was actually waiting to see wich side of the spectrum you would end on. Read further and loose hope in the show my friend :P

    ReplyDelete
  116. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:23

    I just generally have an issue when the romance is more impactfull than the villain, wich it is because (like you said) Ra's is a nonentity and Olicity is a little too big for what it is.


    But we all love to ignore the things we like (in my case Malcolm and your case O/F)

    ReplyDelete
  117. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:24

    Honestly I feel as though the writers don't understand the Laurel character and neither do I. They don't know how to write her, don't know how to incorporate her into things... I just really don't care for her. Some may blame Felicity for this or the fandom, I just blame the writers for just not caring enough about Laurel.


    In the end, I simply don't care about her. I don't care about her relationships either. I never really thought that she was friends with Digg/Felicity apart from a couple of sweet moments. I thought she'd have a bigger connection with Roy, but that doesn't seem to be the case. IDK now I just feel like she doesn't and won't ever fit into the whole O/D/F and now T dynamic without it feeling forced. The writers sort of missed that window.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:24

    I do like that. We argue and fight but no one is butthurt in the end. :D

    ReplyDelete
  119. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:25

    Wich I usually love and in Arrows case actually like.However it came with paying the price of loosing a bit (of wich I mean more but "bit" sounds more diplomatic here) of Laurels significance. Wich should have been more to give her a proper storyline

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  120. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:25

    There was that Malcolm scene before the pit where he says to Thea you don't have to come back if you don't want to. It was also cut. IMO they should have cut the last Felicity/Laurel scene and put the good bye scene there. It would have made more sense.

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  121. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 23:25

    this episode should have a lot of Laurel, even if she isn't here. And she will be interacting with Diggle and Felicity. But overall you have a good point.

    ReplyDelete
  122. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:25

    If we ever went into politics on opposing parties...now THAT would be fun :P

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  123. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:25

    Meh I think you're reducing Felicity's role significantly. Yes, she made it easier for Team Arrow. BUT She and Diggle helped humanize Oliver, helped the audience see a softer side of him. Felicity was also the voice of the audience with some of her quips and lightened the show. SHe's far more than a Deus ex machina.

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  124. GermanShipper27 April 2015 at 23:27

    So far no personalty change of Thea visible. do you think that was all just bullshit? or are they just waiting with that for next season?

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  125. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:27

    I totally forgot about that Malcolm scene until some poster mentioned it a few days ago but I'm good with that, less nice Malcolm gives us a shot at more evil Malcolm scenes

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  126. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:28

    I think people don't like Laurel calling out on his bullsh*t. It's like "Ohh Ur going against him and she is bad for doing it. How she doesn't realize what he went through" I'm not saying it's U but that is the way I feel the fans are mostly treating Laurel. Which interactions between them hurt the show?

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  127. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:28

    Well hopefully they'll be more focus on her as Black Canary next season once she keeps integrating and improving her skills. But I kinda want her to operate solo a lot. But still work with the team and get a lot of focus.

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  128. Shannon27 April 2015 at 23:28

    "Concealed identity." Hahahaha that was really funny. Even cuter when Sara looked at her daddy after he said costume. If Sara's first words are, "Team Arrow" I'm gonna lose it. LOL

    ReplyDelete
  129. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:28

    Did she because up until the middle of season 2 Felicity was a non-character to me. Quirky but not really a character with needs and....a personality

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  130. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:29

    We were hoping for that since season 2 ended and look what we have?

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  131. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:29

    I forgot about that, didn't even notice that. I agree we could've survived the episode without the hug. I just hope there is a reason why Laurel isn't with them or she at least gets a mention.

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  132. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:29

    IMO I really didn't like how adversarial O/F were this season. I don't ignore the issues of the show regardless of what I like. If it weren't for certain episodes (1, 8, 9, 16, 19, 20) I'd think that the writers forgot why people liked O/F in the first place.. Angsty O/F just isn't natural. That's why in season 4 I want them to be together and have little to no romantic drama. The writers can make up for it by creating a compelling villain.

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  133. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:30

    Think it will happen in some solo moments or after she says goodbye to Roy?
    Let her personally harbor with it or infront of Malcolm to give him a purpose.

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  134. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:31

    People are not wrong too. I get their point even though I don't agree. Did you get a chance to see the deleted scene script? So Laurel gets a call from Oliver comes to the airport hangar and he lies to her face about Thea's situation and where he is going? He just says Thea is sick and he is going to show her a specialist. So if Laurel is important to the show, Oliver and a member of TA what should we infer from this scene if it was aired? That she is not important enough to be told the truth? What are the writer's intention for this character? Audience demand or not do they even want us to cheer for this character?

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  135. Nick27 April 2015 at 23:32

    In all honesty? I think the writers have an "ego" and will make everything they "created" from scratch the focus. I'm sure they had multiple orgasms when Lemire asked them if he could use Digg on the comics and the moment Kreisberg took over he went and put their Felicity in there.


    I don't believe in fan-pandering. Twitter/Tumblr/Facebook are a very small and irrelevant fanbase. What are they in total? 100,000 out of 3 millions weekly?


    Meanwhile the press is obsessed with Felicity, for example. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE FELICITY. SHE'S MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER AND I LIKE THIS SEASON'S MORE EMOTIONAL ARC(Oliver's identity crisis).


    I really think they don't like writing for Laurel and they don't even look for ways to use her. She had 3 minutes screentime in the last 2 episodes.


    They want Arrow to be remember for their take on Oliver Queen and his two partners, two characters they created from scratch.


    That's my honest opinion, and i'm a HUGE FELICITY, DIGG AND OLICITY SUPPORTER.

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  136. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:32

    hahahahahah! Team Arrow! Killing me here.

    Wasn't it an amazing scene! Such a nice flow, it just felt good, even though Thea barely interacted with any of them earlier.

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  137. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 23:32

    I sure they could have reduce Oliver/Felcity sex scene because it not needed.

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  138. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:33

    I don't think they want us to cheer for her because they have given up. Hell, there was apparently a change.org petition to get rid of her character when season 2 aired (third hand information)

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  139. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:33

    Pretty well. Dude I hated Laurel in two, this season I like her a lot and I'm looking forward to her becoming more involved and helping get Oliver back. I have no problems with her arc this year. Easing Laurel in I have to say was probably the best bet, given how hated she was. Now a lot (I'd say most from from what I've seen her, on reddit and gin and youtube) like her a lot. Instead if just forcing it and getting people to hate her, she is actually liked now. And that's a miracle. Personally I think the writers did good. And I'm looking forward to her greater role in these last few episodes.

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  140. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:34

    I think everyone should call Oliver out on his bullshit. People got upset with Felicity for calling Oliver out on his BS in episode 12. There are always two sides to the argument. People usually side with the male lead. Which is sad.


    Which interactions?
    -Laurel was reduced to merely a love interest in season 1
    -Laurel sleeping with Oliver thus hurting Tommy
    -Her manhunt against Arrow
    -Oliver forgetting about Diggle in order to help Laurel in season 2
    -basically their romantic interactions
    -Most of their interactions in season 3 where they're both hostile towards one another. doesn't make either of them look good
    -It''s obvious Oliver still doesn't trust Laurel because even in the last episode, according to the script, he lied to Laurel about Thea
    -Laurel being introduced as female lead but was constantly making disparaging comments. I know she had a right to do so, but you don't introduce a character like that which is why people didn't connect with her in the first place

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  141. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:35

    Oliver knew she was training with Nyssa, that was quite obvious since that wedding scene. So I think he wanted to prevent her from interfering, Oliver played it smart there. At least that is what I want to believe.
    I assume she as the DA found out about the stabbing victim and sought out the team.

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  142. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:35

    I think that you're right, they have an ego and their focus on Dig/Felicity to Oliver shows that in some way.


    I did hear that the first thing Green Arrows new creative team did after taking over from them was reboot it and scratch Dig/Felicity.


    I like both characters, hate the romance but am pissed at the way Laurel, a character that should be more than she is, is treated due to fandemand and (apparently) ego pushing

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  143. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:35

    You mean like L/O fans made a petition to fire Guggenheim?

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  144. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:35

    Its a lame excuse that they don't know how to incorporate her. In the last two episodes she needed literally two more minutes on the screen for the show on the whole to make sense. Its bull shit that they are not doing it.


    I know how you feel. And that is my point. Every episode the writers miss one more opportunity to bring her closer to the team. It won't happen over night. It needs to be gradual. They need to sprinkle small scenes every episode for it to be believable.

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  145. Graydon27 April 2015 at 23:35

    The feels are real.

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  146. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:36

    they could, didn't even need to take it out completely, just a few shots less. But that scene was too precious to the fandom

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  147. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:36

    Just saw it. Not much to say than being said. They simply don't care about creating a rounded show without plot holes.

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  148. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:37

    Watch the writers use the 5 month break to integrate her into TA. So by the season premier she'll be a full fledged member and have a great relationship with the team etc. Which IMO won't be that earned because we didn't see it on screen.


    And I know it's a lame excuse. I just don't think the writers care enough about Laurel. And it has nothing to do with Felicity. That's my main issue. People say it's because of Felicity. NO. It's because of the writers not giving a damn about her character.


    Even if they did incorporate her though, I don't think that she would've said much. I think the writers are trying to avoid her becoming Roy2.0 where she's just in the background and says nothing.

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  149. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:38

    Not really a miracle, if you want people to like a character just take them out of the equation and make them support what the general public supports.


    I never hated her (well...early season 1 and the whole Tommy-Oliver hookup thing was borderline annoying) but it got obvious that the writers degraded her as a character when actively reducing her screentime (wich is where this discussion originated)

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  150. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:38

    ...I don't think he knows

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  151. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:39

    they did? Where do I sign?


    Nah but really? (Like I said, third hand information)

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  152. ohlisa27 April 2015 at 23:39

    Maybe she has episodes? She said she couldn't really leave the loft, so maybe there's a reason for that? I thought maybe it was to keep up appearances that she was still recovering, but not that many people seemed to even know she was even ill.

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  153. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:39

    No I don't think he knows.

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  154. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:40

    you just summed up two hours of discussion o.O

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  155. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:40

    All about perception. I feel like Felicity has one of the strongest personalities on the show. On the other hand, I don't think Laurel has a personality. Yep. Perception.

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  156. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:41

    yup. At the moment i saw it, it had like 39 signatures.

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  157. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:41

    Petitions are dime and dozen in this fandom. Fire Laurel last year. Fire Emily and MG this year. This will again happen. As far as I have observed they really want to make BC a hit. They gave her a big arc of four episodes. And I appreciated the character coming out of it. So clearly they haven't given up. Now if they won't follow up on it how can I take this character seriously. Why even bother making her BC. Most loud people on the internet did not want that. So why didn't they listen then?


    This is their sheer inability to write a show without plot holes. Or KC was unavailable for shoots during these three episodes for a part of the time.

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  158. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:41

    That really has to be it, because I'll be frank here: when she first appeared I wanted her to stay as comic relief and never saw her as more (and eyecandy) up until the fanbase started telling me that she was supposed to be more


    Perception...

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  159. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:42

    a regular gets paid goodmoney to BE available at all times. Kinda defeats the purpose of her contract

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  160. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:43

    Its not a matter of they made the petition that I dislike. Had they done it last season or earlier this season when the plot holes were staring at us I would have understood. But this petition started because Oliver slept with Felicity and that is just sad.

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  161. Romen Nykolyn27 April 2015 at 23:44

    I'm suprised Laurel wasn't there!

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  162. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:44

    I feel bad for Marc, as much as I like to ignore his senseless hyping I don't think he's responsible for this mess. TheCW is certainly telling them to give in the certain demands

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  163. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:44

    - In S01 L was more or less only a love interest, they intended to develop her as a character further along but at that point she was just an attorney who had a really messy past with Oliver.
    -That sleeping scene was there to humanize Oliver, something on what U insist Fel and Dig do for him. He was so in love with Laurel, or better said he was in love with the way Laurel loved him. In that moment Oliver felt special for being loved by a person like Laurel who forgive him at that moment for all the pain he caused her.
    - The whole S02 Laurel hurt the show. And truth to be told she wasn't hunting Oliver, she would never do that if she knew at that point.
    -I mean come on, I love Diggle but Oliver knows Laurel much longer and of course he would go to help her.
    - I agree there where a bit to many hostile moments but I think U worry more about Oliver in them cause he wasn't right. He wanted to control everyone and Laurel not letting him do that is right from her. It finally gave her the space to evolve.

    -I think he lied Laurel cause of Nyssa, not cause he isn't trusting her.
    - I agree with that she was rough towards Oliver to many times, it felt repetitive and by the time she stopped when she took Thea under her wing people just saw her for that.

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  164. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:45

    I was just guessing. I don't follow shoot patterns but there were days when she was in LA when others were in Vancouver. Who knows. Nothing else makes sense. If there is any two bits of brain in these people's heads to rub they would understand why LL scenes, 2mins is more than enough, is needed in the last two episodes and this scene along with Diggle and Felicity.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:45

    Lol he just started trolling them even more. The more you play that kind of game with him the more he is gonna troll.

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  166. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:48

    they need to create a relationship between these characters and they fail to do this for Laurel.
    My guess: to potentially evade fanbacklash ("Laurel is coming in the way of Dig/Felicity friendship" or stuff like that....boy I could really see this happen).


    Maybe I consider the fandom more powerfull than it is but who could blame me? Most of the shows changes were exactly what the fans wanted.


    "Get rid of Laurel" -> less Laurel
    "We want Olicity" -> Olicity comes out of the blue in the s3 premiere (it was an OTP until that as far as I was concerned)

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  167. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:49

    I know it's hard, Roy was the most recent sacrifice for them not being able to keep it well rounded and flowing.
    I think I even discussed with U how they aren't able to follow multiple stories at one time and switching from arc to arc. I hope that changes, cause at this moment it creates a lot of problems for all the characters.

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  168. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:49

    That's my point. She doesn't have to say much in last two episodes or here. She just have to say good bye to Roy, tell Oliver to do whatever it takes to save Thea because she would do it if it was Sara and just be there in this dinner. Hardly one minute worth scenes. All these if it was done would have slowly helped people get the feeling she is a part of this team.


    I agree with you it's not about Felicity at all. Its about the writers.

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  169. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:50

    At times I actually get some subconcious vibes from him like he really isn't happy. That whole fern video felt more like him outright saying "look, theCW wants us to promote the ship more so I took all the money and made this spot, here you go CW"

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  170. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:50

    They can't write for more than 3 regulars at a time. Its simple. They need fresh blood and fresh ideas.

    ReplyDelete
  171. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:51

    I think she was merely the comic relief until she found out about Oliver's identity.
    She showed:
    -her strength and backbone by standing up to Oliver ("you're not the only one who can reboot my system" part)
    -bravery by staying in the Glades during the undertaking
    -persistence and agency when she constantly said "My life, my choice"
    -intelligence through her hacking
    -awkwardness through her babbles
    -loyalty when she jumped off a plane with Digg to get Oliver back
    -honesty when she told Oliver the truth about Thea's parentage
    -wears her heart on her sleeve which you could tell this season considering how emotional she got
    -tends to be short sighted when she's under emotional duress
    -Has a lot of sass (Calling the LP a hot tub)
    -supportive of the people in her life
    -sympathetic which was shown in this clip
    -not humble at all (she knows she's a genius)
    -craves human interaction


    I mean I can go on...

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  172. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:51

    He was showing a sneak peak for S4. The fern as the big bad!

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  173. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:52

    not seeing any of this at all and (to me) it sounds like fan-reading-too-much-into-it but that's down to you and your perception

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  174. Spindae227 April 2015 at 23:53

    Yep. I assume they just need to simplify things, they tried to hard this season and failed. Hoping for improvements for all the characters along seson 4

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  175. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:53

    This is a huge reason why I just don't want Laurel on the show anymore. She has little importance, the writers don't understand her, nor will they ever give the character what it needs. I think she would actually benefit moving to a different show. Maybe the one with Sara in it.

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  176. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:54

    at times I feel really bad for shippers. I mean, not the aggressive ones but those that want balance. Their ship is abused by writers/fans/network to fuel the marketing monster and to create controversy.


    I believe firmly that a big chunk of the Olicity base likes to ignore s3 as much as I do for what they gave Olicity

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  177. arrowshieldfan27 April 2015 at 23:55

    but the Flash has about the same size but they oly focus mainly on barry, joe, harrison caitlin and Joe plus Iris/Eddie as supporting character......it cant be that hard to do. The problem is they have no good storyline outside the main three.

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  178. JustGotLittUp27 April 2015 at 23:55

    I mean, a part of the audience's job is to interpret the character. Shows aren't supposed to spell everything out to the audience.


    I don't think I read too much into the scenes. I just think you're ignoring the importance of the scenes regarding Felicity's character development.

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  179. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:57

    I dont think they ignore it. I felt they were waiting for a payoff that still isnt there yet. Like if they endure this shit, it might get better.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Nick27 April 2015 at 23:57

    Yeah, thank God for that! Kreisberg is a horrible comicbook writer. He came after Lemire and it looked even worse cause of that(Lemire's Broken saga was AWESOME!).


    It's not that the problem was Felicity being on the comics, per se(even if i want the tv, movie and comic worlds to remain apart), THE WHOLE STORY WAS AWFUL! It was a bad comicbook.


    After Convergence it's an old Green Arrow. Nothing to do with the TV Universe. What i read was good. I could be a good story. We'll have to wait and see.


    I like the romance and i think it's pivotal for the arc they choose to follow this Season. It's about Oliver having a life as Oliver Queen: his relationship with Thea and Felicity are pivotal for that, just like how Digg is his mirror.


    I get you don't like this season's arc, but it has lots of romance becaus eit helps propel the A Plot for Oliver.


    Now, any of this has to do with Laurel. She isn't defined as a love interest and the diservice the writers did to her wasn't about "fan-demand" but because they couldn't found or were too lazy to found a way to integrate her.


    AND THEY ARE LAZY. On the BC/Laurel Trilogy, instead of think of ways to use all characters they simply choose to send Digg to the background. That led to people hating her AGAIN. Lifes were at risk and Digg stays on the lair? A person died because of that...


    They really don't care. I came to the conclusion that, for them, Laurel and Black Canary is a secondary character. Period. I made my peace with that.


    Season 4 will be more lighthearted and more action centered and, you know what? HIVE and Felicity's father will be pivotal. Digg and Felicity will take center stage of a serious A Story. David Ramsey said that, for the writers, Oliver, Digg and Felicity are the core of the show.


    That's the show we have... and it has nothing to do with the amount of romance they do.

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  181. Sparky27 April 2015 at 23:57

    Yeah they are having problems icorporating Iris into the main story. Just as they did with Laurel.

    ReplyDelete
  182. maclives27 April 2015 at 23:59

    isn't that like the very definition of masochism?

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  183. O D A27 April 2015 at 23:59

    I disagree. I think when the show comes at the cutting floor they find Laurel scenes least important. In season 1 and season 2 it was Laurel scenes that was cut the most. Same is happening here. If they were writing for the whims of fans they wouldn't even shoot Laurel scenes. Either all directors dislike KC's acting or they simply don't find her important. My question is why should I consider her important to this show?


    Get rid of Laurel and keep Sara BC slogan was the most aggressive in post season 2 hiatus. What did they do? They killed Sara off in the first episode.


    We want Olicity was happening way before. And I actually saw a growing closeness between these characters in season 2 and given there was a 6 month time jump and Oliver's reactions to Felicity after the ILY in season 2 finale I could jump on that band wagon. Was it crammed in season 3 premiere. Hell yeah. But it was not unbelievable for me. But for people who did not see any sparks between Olver and Felicity in season 2 even in the finale I get what you are saying.


    Honestly I don't think it is the audience they are responding to. I think what we are seeing is their lack of love for Laurel as a character.

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  184. Sparky28 April 2015 at 00:00

    Isnt that how these ships work. Angst fuels them.

    ReplyDelete
  185. O D A28 April 2015 at 00:01

    They have some problem there too with Iris/Eddie. The sad part is we audience who has no writing ability can tell them what small things they can do to make this show more rounded. I wonder why they don't see it?

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  186. Shannon28 April 2015 at 00:02

    No no, that's where we differ. Thea being at the dinner table was HUGE! I always loved the gatherings at Diggle's house, and now with Thea being part of it makes it all the more special. I've missed Thea's interactions with Diggle, and I've been dying for Thea/Felicity to haVe scenes together. I loved their scene last week and to see them interact here is just great. (And duh makes a shitload of sense.) Then you have little baby Sara and Lyla, just one big Team Arrow family dinner support session. LOL Then at the end you have a picture of Oliver and Diggle, highlighting the bromance. Sigh....having Roy there would've made it 100% completely. But I'll settle for 99.9% complete. Swoon. It really was a bittersweet sneak peek. I didn't expect this and i couldn't have asked for anything more, i really do cherish their dinner gatherings.

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  187. lilah_lilah28 April 2015 at 00:05

    Sometimes I wonder what KC is thinking about all this. Usually contracts are what? 5 years? Arrow is going for the 4th year. IMO, she could be doing something much better.


    And it's not like she doesn't get along with the staff and the other actors. She and Emily went on vacation together after Season 3 finished. She is always on other actors IG, except Amell's.


    KC was even casted before there was someone for Oliver. She was the one that had a fanbase at the start of the show. Look how bad this show has been for her career...

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  188. Spindae228 April 2015 at 00:06

    Flash in S01 and still is pretty fresh to write for. And is much easier with the Flash mythology, to introduce characters and give them storylines. In the Flash right of the bet 4 out of 6 main cast members(not counting Barry as he is the Flash) knew who Barry was and that made the writing much easier.
    They tangled themselves into a web which is really hard to fall out of. Diggle's story was compromised so far, Felicity was all over the place, Laurel had solid moments but as this whole discussion started she isn't really followed on her path. Oliver as the main lead has a solid story but still far away from what he had in S01 and S02.

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  189. JustGotLittUp28 April 2015 at 00:06

    -Laurel sleeping with Oliver made him look like the biggest as*hole because right before that Oliver encouraged Tommy, HIS BEST FRIEND, to go after Laurel. That didn't humanize Oliver in a positive sense, that made him look like a d*ck. Which sort of reinforces my point that when they're romantically involved, they regress as characters.


    -Just because Oliver knew Laurel longer doesn't mean it didn't hurt his character when he basically dropped his promise to help Diggle (which got him HURT btw) just to go help Laurel. Sorry, but that didn't help Oliver at all.


    -You're right. Those hostile moments highlighted Oliver being controlling. But Oliver didn't learn from his mistakes through Laurel, which made their fights exhausting. He learned to be less controlling through Diggle when he took Oliver aside and told him that when he died, they all had to make choices and he can't just come back and control them. He learned to take the backseat with Felicity and not Laurel. Most of Oliver's character development comes through with his interactions with Diggle/Felicity/Thea.


    -What does Nyssa have to do with Oliver lying to Laurel about Thea?

    ReplyDelete
  190. O D A28 April 2015 at 00:09

    I agree with this to an extend. But the sad truth also is that even though they like Diggle and Felicity they are unable to write significant arcs just for them. Diggle did not have any this season and Felicity's was all about romance. They have these both dip their toes in all the pies but they actually don't have a pie of their own.

    ReplyDelete
  191. Spindae228 April 2015 at 00:09

    I'm not saying it's bad Thea is there, I meant the scene had a good flow even though she didn't shared to many scenes with them.
    It was a really well set up, it reminded me on when Oliver and Roy stopped by I think after the events of Guilt for dinner with the Fam, while Fel was playing with Ray.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Shannon28 April 2015 at 00:10

    Hahahaha yeah I know, I read that wrong. I just edited my comment. Lol

    ReplyDelete
  193. JustGotLittUp28 April 2015 at 00:11

    I have a feeling season 4 is going to be big for them :) If I'm wrong, I'm probably gonna want to punch someone in the face so bad...

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  194. O D A28 April 2015 at 00:12

    Sara fans would annihilate her there. Olicity fans are so much better compared to that LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  195. Spindae228 April 2015 at 00:19

    -We are humans and we make mistakes and Oliver was dark then, he couldn't see the light in him. He wanted to do everything right and restrain his feelings for Tommy, who saw all that sacrifice and didn't want it on his back. The love that Laurel gave him at that moment gave Oliver the strength to fight against Malcolm cause he felt wordy. Was it perfect, honest and everything else, no but it was human.
    - I didn't say it was okay what Oliver did, but he made a decision at that moment. Not every decision U do has to be approved. At the end of the day Oliver is the one constantly on the battlefield. There was one beautiful moment in Buffy, tremendously played by SMG, where she said something like "At the end I'm the slayer and every decision ways on my back." Oliver is the one dealing with all the rage and things, at the end of the day he has to decide with which he can live.
    - I agree with U that the writers make it look like most of Oliver's development comes from D-F-T, but that is the mistake some of us are indicating. There where some really strong moments between them and they just neglected to find some development for both of them out of it. At the end of Canaries Oliver accepted Laurel and her wishes what was okay, but at that moment she deserved much more.

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  196. O D A28 April 2015 at 00:22

    I am okay with that too. I was just reiterating the fact that more scenes were cut in that episode apart from Laurel good bye one.

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  197. arrowshieldfan28 April 2015 at 00:23

    The Flash already have 1 minute promo and another 45 sec promo. I think they already release comic preview too

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  198. Spindae228 April 2015 at 00:24

    Yep anything. This way, even though a great scene, lacks something but that is probably cause of my expectations.

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  199. JustGotLittUp28 April 2015 at 00:24

    In the end, I'm just saying Laurel deserves better than Oliver. And Oliver as a character usually is more rootable (is that a word?) when he interacts with Diggle/Felicity. Is that right? Maybe not. But that's just how the show has been written. We see a softer side of Oliver when he interacts with Diggle/Felicity. But when he's interacting with Laurel he's just harder/controlling just not the kind of guy I'd root for. It seems like whenever Oliver's around Laurel it looks like he's just tolerating her, and that's just not a good dynamic.


    Will that change? It depends on the writers and if they give a damn about Laurel. This is why I don't think it'll change. He'll be more accepting, he'll fight with her. But I don't think they'll ever really have the same level of connection as Oliver does with Felicity or Diggle. IN the past she was important to Oliver. Now she isn't. Relationships are forever changing, she won't always be the most important to Oliver and vice versa. It's just like how Digg/Felicity weren't important to Oliver but that changed during the course of season 1 and 2.

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  200. JustGotLittUp28 April 2015 at 00:26

    LMAO true. I forgot about the fandom... I always thought that they would spin Laurel off into her own show with Helena/Sara and now Nyssa. That would be a cool show tbqh.

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