Those of you who have been with me since the beginning of these reviews know that I occasionally complain about the time and effort it takes to write them. The labor is rewarded when the episode is good like The Hunter Games. It’s cathartic when it’s an episode I’ve been dying to take apart, like Charlie’s latest adventure. When the episode is along the lines of I Know What You Did at Final Destination however, it’s like doing taxes.
Hello and welcome to the Gripe Review for lucky number 13, a standalone episode which looks more like an attempt to bring the show into the current decade and ground it in the latest pop culture in hopes of attracting younger viewers of its generation. Sadly, as it is the habit of this group of writers, it is done in the most anvil-on-the-head kind of way.
The writers are so eager to prove they ‘get’ today’s youth they use every bad-writing tool in the toolbox to create the script. As a result the young actors are practically crippled in their performance and become cartoon version of their characters. Their entire time on screen is spent on showing us just how obsessed they are with social media, online apps, mobile gadgets, as well as texting, chatting and bad driving. According to this episode there’s nothing else that occupies a young person’s mind in 2015 than these shallow past times.
What bothers me the most about this and other standalones like it, is that they seem to start and end on an idea alone, in this case making an episode about the current generation’s obsession with Wifi, and a ghost who lives in it. It is an interesting premise, yet the execution is so lazy and uninspired it dates as far back as the slasher movies of the late 90’s.
Aside from its socially and technologically up-to-date premise the story has nothing unique to offer. A group of teens act reckless and kill a man in a car accident. His ghost comes back and starts killing them one by one to exact revenge. That’s basically it. Even the resolution is mind-numbingly tepid. The ghost’s fiancé talks him out of it. No twists or payoffs, no creative use of the premise that would justify the existence of this episode among the dozen or so movies and TV shows that dealt with the exact same plot.
That’s really all I have to say about Halt & Catch Fire. It’s excruciatingly, wearyingly drab. There is no blind-side at the end like Roadkill, or pull-at-your-heartstrings moment like in Long Distance Call, there isn’t even a canon violation I could point at and rage about. It screams minimum effort to fill episode quota for season 10, which means someone, somewhere, got paid to phone in their work by copying screenplays from 1999.
I want to focus on something else now, something I wanted to talk about for a while and came to a head in this episode. The de-characterization of Dean Winchester. Beside the lameness of the plot and lack of creativity, this was the biggest and most irritating gripe I had watching this episode.
The Defamation of Dean Winchester
The first time I touched on this subject was in the review for Rock and a Hard Place. 28 episodes later we’re back in the same mud pit, with writers taking what used to be considered (and confirmed by Supernatural's canon) as Dean Winchester’s mask to hide his real personality and inner pain, and making it his true identity. Here are the instances in this episode that made me want to pull my hair.
Dean Gripe #1 – Dean is a tech oaf
One of the tropes established by the new writers in recent years is the idea that Dean Winchester is denser than your grandma when it comes to pop culture or technology. Since some of these writers seem opposed to watching old episodes I won't ask how they don't know about the EMF meter Dean once made out of an old Walkman and an electromagnet, which was powerful enough to wipe out a room full of computers (Ghostfacers.) The girl in this episode blames Dean’s lack of familiarity with
Dean Gripe #2 – Dean is a womanizer
This is a major one that nearly made me shoot my TV with nerf darts here and during 9.08. For some odd reason the show likes to portray Dean as a guy who thinks with his little head, instead of the big one with the brain, when he's around beautiful women. It was bad enough in 9.08, where women for reasons related to traumatic pasts or religious beliefs, had chosen to remain abstinent, which of course mean Dean had to bulldoze over all those issues on his way to their pants. It’s worse this time because the episode makes a point about how young and oblivious these girls are at the same time it shows a 30-something-year-old Dean sneak a peek at their booties.
Last time I complained about this a few fans argued that Dean being a ladies man was part of his canon personality since season one. Allow me to explain the difference between a ladies man and a womanizer. A ladies man is a guy who impresses women with his charm and skill, gaining their attention by showing them courtesy and respect. A womanizer is one who checks their body parts as if he’s at a buffet and they’re the latest meal being served. Dean’s behavior throughout this episode reminded me of that.
I wished I knew why the writers occasionally do that to him and why the showrunner, or Jensen himself, never complains. If there was an urgency to show Dean still had a libido that only tingled for the ladies, we had Tina for that last week. She and Dean had a nice, adult conversation, with enough chemistry to warrant a night of passion. The writers missed that respectful, natural opportunity, yet went for making him the uncle your parents warn you about in this episode.
Dean Gripe #3 – Dean is a glutton
This isn’t as grating as the others but should be mentioned. Throughout the show we’ve had jokes about Dean eating unhealthy food and being a bit of a glutton. It was mostly about the type of foods he liked to eat though (pie, fast food,) not so much the amount he ate, and that only occasionally and in artful, joyous, funny ways.
Why was he then stuffing his face with disgusting cafeteria food this episode? Couldn’t they at least have gone with pie instead of showing him gorge himself on a revolting mix of Italian and Chinese? Is there a secret mission to turn all of his adorable traits into gross, exaggerated versions of themselves?
Dean Gripe #4 – Dean is full of anguish and guilt
I didn’t get what Dean was saying in that last scene in the car, why he wanted to give up, what he was upset about. It was like the start of season 9 when Sam all of a sudden decided life wasn’t worth living anymore and was asking dream deities to kill him for good . Much like then with Sam, nothing that happened with the MoC so far warrants Dean to have such an I-tortured-souls-in-Hell reaction.
I have no problem with characters feeling desolate and suicidal as long as it is backed by a solid reason. Being marked as an angel condom while your brother is hopped on Demon blood and destined to host Satan who would then bring down the apocalypse is a solid reason. Killing a mob of bad guys and beating up the nasty side of Ginger Spice isn’t.
Episode Gripes
I have to mention these or people will accuse me of phoning it in and I don’t want to be guilty of the same flaw I criticize the writers for. Here are the final Dean-free gripes of this episode:
Bad acting
I know the actors are young, for some of them this might be the first big role on television. I also know the script is in parts unsalvageable. But the acting in this scene is 'The Room' levels of bad. While listening to her say, “Kyle, are you listening to me?” in that stiff overdramatic voice I had visions of Tommy Wiseau yelling at people for tearing him apart.
Bad CGI
Did we really need that image of the mutilated ghost inside the screens of every device the camera panned by? It’s not that the idea itself is bad, but when you are operating on such a low budget that it would make it look like a highschooler used an outdated version of Adobe After Effects to put it there you might want to pass it up.
#7 Bad story resolution
I already talked about this, but it bears repeating. The ghost literally gives up because his fiancé talks him out of it. And it’s not something poignant like a memory they shared or false reassurances that she’d be all right. It’s on-the-nose PSA with lines such as, “Revenge, it’s hollow, and it’s pointless. It won’t bring you back.” They could have Youtubed a motivational speech by Arnold Schwarzenegger and it wouldn't have been as cheesy. Not to mention she’s talking to a scorched zombie of her late husband and holding a meaningful conversation instead of throwing the phone across the room and running for the hills yelling WTF, WTF, WTF!!!
Please give me your thought-cookies in the comments. I may not be able to reply to all of them on time, but I read and cherish every one of them. Next week Cain and Castiel are back, which is two good things at once. I’m looking forward to an exciting mythology episode with lots to talk about after the mundane run of Monster of the Weeks.
Happy Valentines Day everyone.
Tessa
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twitter.com/tessa_marlene
The biggest crime this episode committed for me was the use of ghosts before we found out what the crap happened to the veil! As far as we know ghosts are trapped in the veil and their numbers are increasing, and they should be getting angrier and angrier as the days go on. But this episode didn't even mention that, and at the end the ghost moved on? what the crap? As far as we know heaven is still closed apart from that one door in that playground, that is the only way into heaven for anybody. Unless reapers (who are now Angels which means that they cannot fly and appear all over the world) are travelling by car/bus/plane/boat/trains all across the planet and somehow grabbing each ghost by the hand and dragging them back to the playground, the veil should still be a mighty problem. Yet this episode didn't mention it. Are the writers hoping that we all just forgot about this plotline? Some of us still remember Kevin!
ReplyDeleteI know, I know. Here's a confession: I kind of don't consider anything that happened after Carver came on as canon, especially in regards to Heaven and the angels. His whole Reapers are now angels and Heaven is sealed but somehow angels still run the place and and grace is no longer the angel's true form but the energy they run on yet they still turn into it when they leave a body and ghosts who are in the veil yet they still move on... it hurts my head so I ignore it. But you are absolutely right. As I said, the only thing on their mind while making this episode was the idea of making an episode about Wifi and kids these days.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is out of character, remember the whole issue is regarding the Mark. Dean bascially wants to be himself without the Mark being a constant reminder to his problems. Therefore Dean wants to feel normal like his old self. Noe you argue about Dead being courteous and nice with ladies about respecting them and not treating them like an all night buffet. Where Dean's concerned he is far from a gentleman, he reads Asian Babes and isn't afraid to show it, he sleeps with more than one girl and loves it, it's what makes Dean Dean. He also eating because when the Mark took over Dean stopped eating, so for him eating is like a comfort thing, as long as he's eating he's in control and not the mark. Dean wants to feel human but to compensate he's over compensating.
ReplyDeleteWhere Dean's concerned he is far from a gentleman, he reads Asian Babes and isn't afraid to show it, he sleeps with more than one girl and loves it, it's what makes Dean Dean.That's the argument I was referring to. That doing such things as sending lecherous looks at every T&A that walks by is 'just Dean." Erm, no. Dean had a way with the ladies. He charmed them, talked they up, made them feel special, and yes, he got into their pants, but he did it in an adorable, charming way. Unless he's lost it all in his old age and turned into a horny old man it's out of character.
ReplyDeleteReading porn and sleeping with more than one consenting adult doesn't make you a womanizer. Leveling 'the gaze' on every woman who walks by, without making eye contact, reducing them to the sum of their body parts instead of human beings, does.
He's also eating because when the Mark took over Dean stopped eating, so for him eating is like a comfort thing, as long as he's eating he's in control and not the mark. Dean wants to feel human but to compensate he's over compensating.<.blockquote>But that's another fan analysis that's not confirmed by the show. In fact even Dean's eating habits have been all over the place since he got hit with the mark. Two episodes ago he was eating healthy and staying away from alcohol, now he's eating like a pig and neither has any effect on him as far as we could see. I wished the writers could make up their mind so if we have to tie every weird behavior we see from Dean to the mark at least there's consistency.
I dunno, I think that Dean's always liked to look at the ladies. He did it back in season 1. An example comes to mind when Dean is trying to get Sam to have fun and stares at a waitresses ass and says something like "Now thats fun!". He did something similar the first time he met Bella when she was a waitress. I personally don't think Dean was too out of character this week, especially not because he checked out some women.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I disliked goes back to Carver's everything is a shade of gray. We have been getting sympathetic monsters out of him. In this episode, the wife really was an innocent. Her husband gets run down by kids texting. He sticks around as a ghost which comforts her. Suddenly SHE is the one saying his killing "coeds" (note someone pointed out that coed means female students, hes was killing students period) all her fault. She's not a hunter. There is no indication that she has any idea there are hunters out there. I have no idea how she was supposed to stop her husband because she knew nothing about ghosts. Heck even Sam and Dean didn't have a way to get rid of the ghost and had to resort to telling her to tell him to move on. But the story is clear, both the wife and the kids who KILLED HER HUSBAND are equally wrong and bad. In a season where we were told that we would question whether Sam is a worse monster than Demon!Dean, this does not bode well. I have the sinking feeling that, if they ever decide to give Jared lines again, that he will be equally blamed by the writers for whatever fallout there is from Dean and the Mark. My even more sinking feeling is that Cas and Dean will talk about all the awful things Sam did OFF SCREEN that make Sam responsible for Dean and his actions under the influence of the Mark.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the idea itself isn't every original. But sadly that's how I've felt not only about recent MOTW, but the myth-arcs too.It is plain to see that no one is putting any effort into this show, aside from the cast. Even the props people have become lazy. Remember when the Winchesters had clever disguises and all those small details that got put into everything?
ReplyDeleteBut frankly, I'm glad to see an episode that is not as offensive as so many of the others. The pop culture jokes are boring and I agree the characters acted juvenile and cartoonist. But at this point in my desperation I would take it over racist, misogynistic and outright offensive scripts we've gotten in the past (because what is funnier than things like bestiality, am I right?). They weren't subtle, but we've had two rape jokes in the past season alone.
There were parallels, but not as in your face as with Paper Moon or #Thinman. It is also refreshing to see the boys care for the people they save and not just making them some forgettable characters or ones that overtake the plot.
Yes, the ending was anticlimactic. But the biggest offense was forgetting the Veil once more. It's just so...*sighs*
I have to agree with you on all Dean-related gripes. I can live with Dean being not up to date with latest greatest apps and social media platforms (young Dean didn't know that Facebook is at its popularity peak, he downloaded translation app in season 8 and was extremely proud of himself, and its actually overlapping very much with JA's resistance to join social media platforms (seeing how JP was showing JA how to use Twitter and explaining what hashtag at the one of the conventions reminded me of Sam-Dean ). And its not about how old person is: there are young-ish people out there who just not so interested in all this toys, and some much older who love it. So all this Gen-X thing is something teens made up to poke at older generation and support their own self-esteem.
ReplyDeleteBut Den lasting over 20+girls was just not funny. Him checking out butts and turning his head each time female student passing by was just creepy and troubling. Those girls are somewhere is the age-range of his own kids could be ( Ben, and it could be kid (and my be he is, who knows) , was what, in season 11-12 in season 6, so now with all time jumps he is what, 17-ish?) Yes, Dean and Tina in last episode was totally there, I actually was disappointed she left, but teens for Dean? Blah, too much, too unreal, and make character unlikable and creepy.
Food thing is overdone s well. Ok, Dean loves trashy food, I can leave with it, ut why make him an idiom and show his eating manners are not better then 3yo child. Why dumb down 36yo man, hunter for just cheap laugh only teens can find funny. It was disgusting more then funny. And I love Dean deeply, but I couldn't watch this without throwing remote in my TV. It was cute when Dean was staffing his face in season one or in Tall Tales (which was Sam's exaggerated version), but grown-up man eating like idiot just way too out of the line.
I actually did like MOW story itself, visual effects were good, Sam was using his very underused brain to solve the case, Dean was choked this time (my be excessive eating slows down his reflexes and all that cholesterol blocks MoC effect ) and Sam saved the day. I didn't find acting to be too terrible except for the guy in motel room scene.
Overall this was very average filler ep for me, and if not for horrific Dean portrait, it could be even good one in my book.
I couldn't even wrap my head around the wife's role in the story. First of all she seems completely a-ok with the ghost of her husband talking to her through a computer, instead of you know, being suspicious that it might be a stalker or a troll with incredibly bad taste. She simply accepts it was her husband's ghost as if that's a normal thing in a normal person's life. Then she just agrees that Sam and Dean are hunters, that her husband is the killer, and that she could stop him through the power of love and AT&T. Again, a sane person would throw the FBI impersonators out of her house and call the police. Then, at the end, she simply lets one of the people responsible for her husband's murder into her house. How about charges for being involved in a manslaughter and covering it up? If this college student is admitting she was in a hit and run, shouldn't they all go to the police station and take down a statement?
ReplyDeleteAs for Sam being held responsible for anything I wouldn't worry. That cross seemed to have been passed to Dean this season, and it looks like it's Sam+Cas bonding time over what to do with a troubled Dean. I would worry even less about Cas and Dean talking about anything, let alone Sam. The writers seem to have decided to make Sam the conduit between those two out of fear that the evil Destiel might rear its head if they let them breathe the same air.
If I could up this a million times, I would sit here and painstakingly do it. Everything with the wife was fucking ridiculous. You wanna have a lady talking to her dead husband through the computer... fine, then make it OBVIOUS that there is a strong chance that SHE HAS LOST HER MIND. She should have been a shut in, who people in the neighbourhood whisper about, she should piles of mail on her front door and have both moments of lucidity and extreme paranoia and insanity.
ReplyDeleteAnd episode should have ended with a stop at the police station. Not cookies with the widow of the man you killed.
Since they were ripping off movies anyway, I figured they were going to rip off THE FRIGHTENERS (which would have made more sense), and wifey was going to be in on it. That a simple facetime chat stopped a homicidal ghost is laughably bad. That he was travelling through WIFI in the first place was headache inducing eyeroll bad.
I missed reviewing your last few reviews and its a bummer that this is the episode I have to start with because it definitely was one of the less than stellar ones. Both the plot and its resolution were trite and uninspired and all of your episode gripes were pretty spot on.
ReplyDeleteThere are, however, some points in Dean-gripes that I disagree with. Basically, I think you've misread Dean's situation here. At the end of the episode, I didn't see him as being anguished or guilty - he appeared to be more at peace with the idea of living with the Mark .
Now this is an important point to focus on - when Dean is angsting or feeling guilty, he turns to alcohol and he avoids food, light humor and sex. You raised the point about there being a solid reason for Dean to be desolate and suicidal - brother hopped up on demon blood, being marked as an angel condom, apocalypse on the horizon etc. - if you recall, during that time Dean was avoiding food and sex. I think that Dean's attitude this episode about girls and food was a sign that he was making his peace with the idea of having to live with the mark. Not giving up out of despair - simply accepting it. Which is why his womanizing and gluttony didn't bother me as much.
As for not being tech-savvy, I didn't think it was that bad. Dean not knowing the latest apps - especially nav-apps that he'd never allow inside the impala - isn't a big deal. I was more miffed at his "surprise" that Sam could pull deleted conversations from the internet or at Sam saying that "nothing was ever really deleted". Other than that, the rest was about as much familiarity with social media as I'd expect from Dean Winchester.
But at this point in my desperation I would take it over racist, misogynistic and outright offensive scripts we've gotten in the past (because what is funnier than things like bestiality, am I right?). They weren't subtle, but we've had two rape jokes in the past season alone.
ReplyDeleteThat's a valid point, although Dean checking out college age bootie really put my teeth on edge. I used to idolize that man. I'm feeling let down.
It is also refreshing to see the boys care for the people they save and not just making them some forgettable characters or ones that overtake the plot.Again, valid point. However it would have helped if the characters themselves weren't so forgettable. I have trouble feeling touched by Dean caring about a bunch of bird-brain kids who killed a man and just ran off. The one they saved was in the backseat, yes, but shouldn't she be held responsible for the coverup? As Percysowner said in the below comment why was it made so that the ghost and his wife were the only villains?
Yes, the ending was anticlimactic. But the biggest offense was forgetting the Veil once more. It's just so...*sighs*Yes, the veil. I should have mentioned it in the review. But even now I don't feel like it, mainly because it gives legitimacy to that mess Carver and his writers made of Heaven's story. If they themselves can't remember were they put their canon, why should I?
I couldn't even wrap my head around the wife's role in the story. First
ReplyDeleteof all she seems completely a-ok with the ghost of her husband talking
to her through a computer, instead of you know, being suspicious that it
might be a stalker or a troll with incredibly bad taste. She simply
accepts it was her husband's ghost as if that's a normal thing in a
normal person's life. Then she just agrees that Sam and Dean are
hunters, that her husband is the killer, and that she could stop him
through the power of love and AT&T. Again, a sane person would throw
the FBI impersonators out of her house and call the police. Then, at
the end, she simply lets one of the people responsible for her husband's
murder into her house. How about charges for being involved in a
manslaughter and covering it up? If this college student is admitting
she was in a hit and run, shouldn't they all go to the police station
and take down a statement?
I think this was explained. She did initially think that her husband's ghost was a prank, but it knew a lot of private and intimate details about her so she eventually accepted it. Once you accept that your dead husband's ghost is talking to you and then find out that it is getting obsessed with revenge and people are dying, it is not that hard to accept the guy who says he's here after the ghost.
I think you've said it best. It's not that Dean enjoying a good looking woman or food is OOC, but it's been "dumbed down" so far, that now it actually is. Dean noticing when an attractive woman is talking to him makes sense, Dean breaking his neck every time anything that can be seen in the realm of good looking is stupid and verges on parody.
ReplyDeleteHis idiocy when it comes to technology is another old joke that's run it's course, his time with Frank means they need to work harder for those laughs. I don't mind him being disinterested in technology but he shouldn't be dumbstruck by it either.
At the end of the episode, I didn't see him as being anguished or guilty - he appeared to be more at peace with the idea of living with the Mark .
ReplyDeleteI should have clarified. I understood that it meant he was accepting and making peace with his situation. What I was referring to was the fact that he had to have been anguished and guilty in order to reach this decision. It was in the last episode I assume with him locking himself up and avoiding alcohol, and now him getting over it. My problem is with the scenario as a whole. He doesn't have a reason to be any of it. The Mark hasn't bothered him as much as say Sam's soullessness or blood addiction and Michael's constant harassments did. Even his hell flashbacks had been worse. IMO if they wanted to milk the Mark idea for this season's angst generator they should have sold it better. The way it is now it doesn't strike me as anything more than a bad tattoo that needs removing. So why not let Cas look for the best tattoo removal specialist and do your thing in the meantime? Why make such a fuss over it?
As for not being tech-savvy, I didn't think it was that bad. Dean not knowing the latest apps - especially nav-apps that he'd never allow inside the impala - isn't a big deal.The big deal for me was that it wasn't just a passing comment like before. If it was that I would have no problem. Even if we accept Dean as completely tech illiterate it gets a little grating when an episode dedicated a dialogue every ten minutes or so to drill that point into your head. Much like Dean checking female butts. I usually let one or two instances pass. But when it repeats more than five times I take issue with it.
That doing such things as sending lecherous looks at every T&A that walks by is 'just Dean." Erm, no. Dean had a way with the ladies.
ReplyDeleteHe charmed them, talked they up, made them feel special, and yes, he
got into their pants, but he did it in an adorable, charming way. Unless
he's lost it all in his old age and turned into a horny old man it's
out of character.
Except, Dean didn't even try to hit on co-eds this episode. He didn't flirt with them or try to charm them or get into their pants. That would have made him much more of a horny old man than simply looking at them.
Leveling 'the gaze' on every woman who walks by, without making eye
contact, reducing them to the sum of their body parts instead of human
beings, does.
But that's something Dean has always done.
It's not that Dean enjoying a good looking woman or food is OOC, but it's been "dumbed down" so far, that now it actually is.Bingo. Thank you. That's what I meant. I have no problem with Dean being Dean. Dean asking for and stuffing his face with pie was cute and in character. Dean playing Casanova with the ladies and feeling jolly when they paid him attention was nice. But dumbing it down to the level of Dean being a lecher and a glutton, then anvil slamming it several times in the space of one episode is unacceptable. Same with the tech illiteracy. Did we really have to watch him be dumbstruck so many times at once about how to Internet?
ReplyDeleteI should have clarified. I understood that it meant he was accepting and
ReplyDeletemaking peace with his situation. What I was referring to was the fact
that he had to have been anguished and guilty in order to reach this
decision. It was in the last episode I assume with him locking himself
up and avoiding alcohol, and now him getting over it. My problem is with
the scenario as a whole. He doesn't have a reason to be any of it. The
Mark hasn't bothered him as much as say Sam's soullessness or blood
addiction and Michael's constant harassments did. Even his hell
flashbacks had been worse. IMO if they wanted to milk the Mark idea for
this season's angst generator they should have sold it better. The way
it is now it doesn't strike me as anything more than a bad tattoo that
needs removing. So why not let Cas look for the best tattoo removal
specialist and do your thing in the meantime? Why make such a fuss over
it?
I don't think guilt was a major factor here. Sure, Dean felt guilty about killing the roomful of scumbags, but it wasn't the debilitating, soul-crushing guilt of previous seasons. The anguish about the mark isn't about what it has made him do, its about what it might make him do. So far, Dean has been lucky - his time as a demon was brief and tempered with Crowley providing demons to kill and for now, the only time the mark has gone off is when he was in deserving company. His anguish seems to be more about where it'll lead.
I thought she was his wife but other then that I completely agree! Blah story and a WTF?! resolution. No wonder why Carver is dragging MOC on cause he knows once resolved he's going to lose a lot of viewers.
ReplyDeleteTwo things Tessa: first off the woman clearly said they were newlyweds. They were husband and wife.
ReplyDeleteWhat I thought about was why she would live 3 doors down from where her husband died; I personally would move.
And that business about being a horndog: Dean did not make ONE off comment to any of the young women. He actually appeared embarrassed to me that he could not keep his mind on the job and kept staring at women's butts. I thought the food was a distraction for him.
I agree that the tone of his adult conversation with Tina last week (and if you noticed they had at least 6 drinks between the two of them, well him one before they began their talk, he should have been plastered from FOUR effing shots) was much better presented. I think what is going on is almost hormonal roller-coaster-ing here. He was ok last week (killed two supernaturals but didn't hulk out) and he was ok this week. I so appreciated how he protected Delilah, putting his own life in danger.
I agree that business about The Veil is SO unresolved it is stupid. Open or closed, is Kevin still at Mama Tran's or did he make it to his Own Private Paradise (which would probably include his Mama anyway, don't you think?) OR is he set to come back because there have been intimations about SOME tablet plot later this season?
When my daughter and her fiance came by for Christmas I noticed they were texting all the time.
I just found it weird that when we did the car accident flashback three of the four in the car were networking on their phones. And then I wondered why Delilah didn't pull out her phone to call 911.
Billy took a few minutes to say, I'm on a suspended license. Why didn't blond #slut dial 911? They were in the back, they didn't KNOW Billy's issue, so why didn't #slut call 911?
Also Billy's girl from the teaser should've just said, GPS ap. A lot of people don't know the names of new aps, they come and go.
Oh I felt so OLD that Dean mentioned "Christine" and coed had never heard of Stephen King. Oh, I am OLD.
Thanks, Martin. It seemed to me that Dean was embarrassed that he could not STOP looking at girls' asses. He did NOT make an inappropriate comment to anybody. Or even Hold his Gaze too long.
ReplyDeleteFor me the idea is that the Mark takes away impulse control. He could not control his eyes, but I sure thought he was trying.
Please Mitch Pileggi (Sam Campbell) was in a movie Shocker 1989 where he was a serial killer who gets uploaded into a computer and starts killing people. Dean said it himself lawnmower man 1992 where Jeff Fahey and Pierce Brosnan costarred. Brosnan as a scientist trying to make Fahey's character smarter.
ReplyDeleteAbout Dean being a horndog, as I said in another comment, it wasn't so much what he did (I don't mind the occasional look we get every other episode,) as the number of times we saw it happen this episode. It was as if they told Jensen to look at every extra who walked by, then added that bit about the woman bending over and Dean checking her butt. It's the anvil effect once again. We get it, he likes girls, could you please not drive it to the ground? Same with his tech illiteracy, and food fetish.
ReplyDeleteAlso Billy's girl from the teaser should've just said, GPS ap. A lot of people don't know the names of new aps, they come and go.At first I thought it was show's version of Siri and thought it made sense. One would expect people to have heard of Siri since it's part of iPhone's system as opposed to an external app. But when she said it was a talking map I thought, unless it's as well known as Google, you have no case.
Yes she was. I don't know why I said fiance. I was thinking "new bride" but it sounded too long.
ReplyDeleteIs that what the writers were trying to show us; that they "get" the youth of today? I thought it was just a 42-minute public service advisory -- Don't Text and drive.
ReplyDeleteI get you about Dean's characterization, and that's what turned me off on the episode. Dean, who reads Vonnegut; Dean, who thinks quick on his feet when things go south; Dean, who could be an mechanical engineer; Dean, who not too long ago was teaching Sam new things learned from Frank Devereaux about hacking.
When has Dean not ever been respectful to women? One of his historic endearing characteristics, has always been that he acted like a rogue, but deep down, he always has had a high regard for women -- because he loved his mother so much. Personally, I would have liked to find out what Dean thought when he learned his mother made a deal with YED and was the cause of Sam's demon blood and for everything that happened in their lives.
The food thing was because of his deprived childhood, but also as a way to show that Dean was a person who got the most pleasure out of the simple things of life.
I get that everyone connected with the show these days is just coasting (milking it) until the end, and I get that the network has made a decision to try to get a younger demo. It's not working. If you look at the demos, the ones that are still carrying this show is the 18-54 year olds and the 18-29 year olds have the lowest demo.
I'll also never understand why writers who come onboard with a wealth of history for characterization just throw it out to write their own cardboard caricatures of the two Winchesters. That shows no professionalism at all and could very well earn them the title of "hacks.'
Then there is the veil thing. Another dropped plot. I am assuming the wingless angels thing is dropped, too, and that is why Cas can be off learning about riverboat gambling. I wonder which one of the writers just got back from a gambling trip? I also wonder which ones and how many of them are having a mid-life crisis and are writing out their 'aging' fears.
Excellent article and very well said, Tessa. As you can see, I completely agree with your take on this one.
It is something i think Crowley did for Dean. Dean was some sort of human- demon hybrid. In Reichenbach he was coming out of the strip club and some kids bumped into him and were rude. He DIDN'T kill them. He saw them as dumb kids. So while he was demonic I didn't think he was a true "demon" if that makes any sense. I don't think Crowley wanted to lose "Dean" because he "loves" him in a way that only Crowley could.
ReplyDeletei thought Dean was embarrassed to be looking at all the female backsides. Normally he would glory in being surrounded by pulchritude.
Of course Tessa feels different but personally I FELT Dean's embarrassment.
That he was perving on coeds and KNEW IT.
His anguish seems to be more about where it'll lead.But where is that? Did we have a prophecy, like for example if he lets it stay for more than a year it would consume him and make him a monster? I just feel like I missed something and don't get the urgency of this plot?
ReplyDeleteI missed the checking college girls out part, so I can't comment on how old or young they looked (I'm in college and I'm 22). But also, they had him check high school girls once so I'm not even that bothered yet. Yes it is creepy. But Dean is also 35-36, not 60. Yes it is a little immature and a step backwards for the character. But at least he was checking legal /humans/.
ReplyDeleteI never got the impression that the wife was made to be a villain? Otherwise that little kid in Bad Boys was portrayed as a villain too. Sam nor Dean blamed her. She felt guilty over ignoring his strange behavior. But that's different from being a villain. And it was her who chose to forgive the girl for her actions. Not the other way around. Unless I missed something?
I found that during Kripke's years they changed Reapers once or twice. Like how could Tessa be possessed by YED? That bugged me seriously.
ReplyDeleteThat may be the view to take, but some of us actually have followed the Winchesters for a decade now and it's hard to put what is going on with them aside. I foolishly thought Dean may be going to deal with a lot of issues this season while on his "personal journey," but I am left to conclude that his little chat with the co-ed made his decision to be a hunter again and that's the end of it. Of course, I could ask when has Dean NOT been committed to hunting, but that would be futile.
ReplyDeleteI am kind of curious as to what Dean's plan is, though. He hunts until...what? He can't die, unless that little point is now gone, too. Does he think he'll hunt until he hulks out and Cas will throw him to the sun? Does he now have complete control over the Mark? No sign of it in this episode.
What drives me the most crazy, though, is the writers keep talking about finding a "cure." Is the MoC a disease?
One of his historic endearing characteristics, has always been that he acted like a rogue, but deep down, he always has had a high regard for women -- because he loved his mother so much.Yes. This. Dean's story the way I saw it (and loved) was that on the surface he acted like a Casanova, but deep down he was a true romantic with huge amounts of respect for women due to his mother being such an iconic loss in his life. They did that well in the first five seasons. The balance worked and delivered the message. But now they just seem to want to pound it that Dean's a playboy, and they do it in the most short-circuited kind of way. A look here, a comment there. Done.I get that everyone connected with the show these days is just coasting (milking it) until the end, and I get that the network has made a decision to try to get a younger demo.Yes, agree. That's the feeling I'm getting too. The, "Let's ride this to the end with minimum effort," feeling. I'll also never understand why writers who come onboard with a wealth of history for characterization just throw it out to write their own cardboard caricatures of the two Winchesters. Laziness and ego. They're basically acting like amateur fanfiction writers.Then there is the veil thing. Another dropped plot. I am assuming the wingless angels thing is dropped, too, and that is why Cas can be off learning about riverboat gambling.Like I said, I don't think about or remember the post-Carver canon much since it seems neither does he or his writers, so why bother.
ReplyDeleteI think he thinks he'll die if he doesn't have the Blade in his hand. He is probably wrong (Crowley said the Mark brought Cain back) but he may be operating on the assumption that he has to DIE with the Blade in his hands and then have the Blade in his hands to regenerate. I could be wrong, it is just my idea of what happened at the end of Miracles. Or just what I think is Dean's perception of what happened.
ReplyDeleteI don't think wife would have gone to the police; they might've thought SHE was killing her husband's killers. She probably felt guilty because she could not stop Andrew and accepted Delilah's apology. She knew Delilah felt badly, horribly for her lack of moral courage. But the whole thing happened so fast, I don't think calling 911 would have saved Andrew.
ReplyDeleteIt was the number of times they made him do it. Once or twice, in passing, in an episode I have no problem with. But they hammered it so much in this one I had a suspicion someone told Jensen to check out every female extra who walked by. It's when something passes the point of being hinted at and goes into the pound-over-your-head territory that you begin to get suspicious about what they mean by it.
ReplyDeleteAgree on all points, Annie.
ReplyDeleteShe did initially think that her husband's ghost was a prank, but it knew a lot of private and intimate details about her so she eventually accepted it. That's when I thought it got even creepier, like a stalker who hacked her emails or read her diary. Let's face it, most of us in real life don't immediately think ghost in the machine when we see someone spill out our intimate secrets on the Internet. I personally would think hacker with mad skills and call the authorities.
ReplyDeleteBut it was a passable gripe that they tried to explain so I didn't put it in the review. the motivational speech at the end was much worse after all.
I don't know about "he can't die". He was pretty dead until MoC was activated full power by Blade. I think he can be easily resurrected, but I am not sure he can't die period. DD didn't have a fraction of supernatural power Cain had without holding the blade.
ReplyDeleteActually, as I pointed in my comment above, I think Dean can die without the Blade. Mark may held soul from leaving its body, but Blade is a power source to actually bring him back (twisting soul in the process). The Mark brought Cain back but he is first bearer and seems like much more powerful without blade then Dean with
ReplyDeleteWhere you trying to reply to someone else?
ReplyDeleteI don't know what they do about Destiel and the rabid shippers. I've gotten the feeling that Jensen is sick to death of answering the constant questions about it at conventions. I know that at least one publicist for the CW who addressed the question with "it's not happening" got run off of Twitter because of the backlash. I also know that the really rabid shippers see Destiel even when Dean and Cas aren't together. I know there is a three act theory proposed by fans who are convinced that when Carver said he had a three season arc planned that the plan was for Dean and Cas to get together on screen. I know that many of these rabid shippers think TPTB are giving them clues that Dean and Cas will get together based on wallpaper in an episode.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a Destiel shipper and I think TPTB are in a pickle. They may have put themselves there by playing to the fandom the exact way they did to the people who shipped Wincest in early seasons. Now it's like they climbed on a tiger and can't get off.
The only thing I liked about this episode was that it was set in Spencer, IA which is a town I lived in as a kid so that was cool.
ReplyDeleteThere is no urgency to this plot. That's the problem w/the plot, IMO.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'm trying to say - I think the point they were trying to hammer in was that Dean was more or less trying to be back to his usual self and getting over his mark-induced anguish.
ReplyDeleteI think Dean was afraid to be a hunter - or more specifically, afraid to go out in the field for the fear that he might go off on innocent civilians. Last episode, he thought he'd rather shut himself in and keep looking for the cure. Now, however, he has simply decided to let go of the cure and do his job the best he can with the mark.
ReplyDeleteHow is that a change when there was no previous indication that reapers couldn't be possessed?
ReplyDeleteI lived there, too :). Only during my high school years, from 10th to 12th grade, but still.
ReplyDeleteIt's a nice little town. Neat that it was picked for a location in an episode.
Every place on the show looks like Vancouver to me, which is where I live, so I don't notice the locations sometimes. This one was filmed at UBC so I subconsciously thought it was UBC. :)
ReplyDeleteAfter 10 years of being on the same show, I would think any questions at the conventions would make JA and the gang sick to death.
ReplyDeletePart of me wants to say buck up, so what if you keep getting asked about Destiel, just acknowledge that there is group out there who wants it, but unfortunately it's not canon. After saying that 100 times, I would think even the most rabid fan would get the point.
But then recently I was exposed to some anti tumblrs regarding The Originals and their EP's and writers, and I realized how far down the rabbit hole this level of fan obsession can get. People can get a little scary. And more than a few won't ever get the point.
Still, I am of the mind that people start to nitpick and get snippy and latch on to 'ships and fandoms and canon in an extreme way when shows aren't doing their job. Stay entertaining, stay smart and relevant, know your own history, keep the characters fresh but recognizable and know when to go off the air and you don't have to worry about fan servicing to get your ratings or keep interest.
"I know that many of these rabid shippers think TPTB are giving them clues that Dean and Cas will get together based on wallpaper in an episode."
That made me laugh like a crazy person. Some people are just nuts.
You assume human beings are logical creatures. People deal with lost in different ways. There is a reason there are people who have made "talking to your dead relatives" a profession.
ReplyDeleteI think it is a guy thing (I THINK you are a guy, your name is; if you turn out to be a girl, I am so sorry for mentally mis-labelling you.) I am not saying you are WRONG I am saying I got an embarrassed vibe in those scenes, like he could not help himself and it pissed himself off. Like he was TRYING to concentrate on whomever they were interviewing. He kept dragging his eyes back to HER.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I sometimes discuss the show because I think whoever it is that decides these things decides to play up the "love" aspect. He tells me repeatedly that I have no idea of how men who are in a combat situation interact, that he sees nothing at all in Sam and Dean or Dean and Castiel's constant "close touching" and that he knew guys in combat who acted like this but weren't in love. I (who have never been in combat) think that it is the "combat" situation the leads are in which leads to what I find to be surprising amounts of touching or outpourings of affection. Again, I may be seeing it "wrong" because I am a woman here. Maybe I was embarrassed for Dean, being unable to control his eyes? Anyway, I am not arguing with you, I am willing to admit that I could see this from a "personal" perspective which the show wasn't projecting.
In Faith, the first Reaper was a creepy old guy; he malevolently (I think) went after the wife after Sam smashed her crystal. Tessa, next Reaper, in her "true" state was sort of a floaty spirit-being. She came back as Tessa in order to "make the sale" with Dean. Tessa always seemed to me to be above it all.
ReplyDeleteSo I don't think she would've gone after SueEllen (?) she simply would've gone on her way and done her job. Also, why was first Reaper, in "true" state so icky looking; he did not look like Tessa (that actor always plays creeps, he came back in 8.02 and partook in the soul auction) in "true" form. Then YED possessed her. IF she was a spirit in the first place, how could he possess her? It made no sense to me. Later Reapers (like at Carthage, when Lucifer was raising Death) did not appear creepy or malevolent or ANYTHING. They appear mission-oriented to me. I think that is the right way to express it.
Later Tessa fit in when Dean "died" to meet Death again. But still I could not figure out how she was possessed by YED. And THEN we come to the Carver years. I can see the Taxi Driver Reaper selling out, Ion the Angel sold out to Crowley. So that didn't bother me. And the April and the Bounty Hunter Reaper, again, natural order has been disturbed, if angels are selling out, why not reapers? NO PROBLEM for me.
But that business about Reapers being Angels? Well, as Cupids were a branch of angels who liked to naked-hug, OK. Cupids are Angels from their first appearance. I gather there are branches of angels (like the death dealers) so I CAN shoehorn it in.
But I still think the FIRST Reaper we met was different from every other Reaper, and the way Tessa was portrayed was all over the place. So again, if there weren't going to be angels (per Kripke) then whatever Tessa was was not supposed to be an angel. I can ACCEPT that Reapers are a branch but that Faith character was so different from what came after.
You raise a lot of good points, and I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who at one point identified as a Destiel shipper. Though I never really insisted on a romantic relationship between them, I found it a nice twist if they decided to go down that path, but mostly I was willing to settle for brothers in arms and best friends.
ReplyDeleteI think the whole thing really went sideways when fans started believing it was going to happen due to a few rumors flying around social media. A bunch of people involved with the show, who were looking to increase their twitter followers, started pandering to the shippers, pretending they knew more than they actually did about how the story was going to go, and naive shippers ate it all up. That was what started the whole Destiel push and later scandal.
Imagine this: There were all these people - from writers to the location manager - spreading false spoilers about Destiel becoming canon soon, and fans were taking it as fact. I remember at one point the Destiel tag was filled with quotes from different crew members interpreted as prophesies on how it would happen by the end of the season and people were seriously buying it. If you consider this misdirection - which was mostly hidden from anyone not checking those tags and accounts - you get why fans kept asking questions at conventions (they wanted to know if it was truly the case,) and why, when they were told "No" they got angry (they thought they were lied to) and accused the show of queer baiting. They were being misled by people who had no idea what they were talking about yet because those people were marginally involved with the show they thought it was the show, and the showrunners, who had lied to them.
I understand why Jensen got confused about all this. It would be hard for anyone who wasn't involved with social media and all the behind the scenes noises to comprehend what was going on and why so many focused on this relationship, which as you said had nothing more than wallpaper hinting at it on the show. Everything was happening in the social media sphere and away from the show yet the show was the only place that it could all materialize.
It's sad though because of such a baseless drama TPTB now feels like they're trapped and need to fight the ship, something that should have been just for fun and boost the show's ratings. I wished Carver had better control over his staff and told them not to say nonsense online. It's too late now and having Dean and Castiel act like strangers on the show is only one of the many side effects this caused. We have to suffer bad storytelling because shippers felt wronged and overreacted and cast members were harassed and writers decided to make a point by making the only friend Dean had outside his brother a stranger and a pointless element on the show.
The wife shouldn't have gone to the police but Delilah should have. I imagine there's an unsolved case sitting in the archives that could have been closed had she come clean about what she and her bffs had done that night. There might have been more people grieving and needing closure for the guy's death and somehow I doubt the wife would tell any of them what really happened for the reasons you just mentioned.
ReplyDeleteI really doubt that there is an unsolved case here. The guy swerved his car to avoid something and hit a pole instead - then the power lines electrocuted him and blew up the car. There is no evidence of any foul play and no reason to look for any culprits. He could've swerved to avoid an animal on the road or he could've blown out a tyre (who could tell after the wreck) or he could've been checking his emails while driving. The cops ruling it an accident and closing the case seems like a likely scenario to me.
ReplyDeletehi Tessa, i only have 1 comment, Sam wasnt unconscious in this ep, but that may change tuesday
ReplyDeleteFirst I take offense at the "Dean Winchester is denser than your grandma", I am a Great Grandma and not dense at all...at least not about tech. lol As far as phoning in the scripts, that has been the way Carver works, just look up Bad Showrunner in the dictionary and I bet a picture of Carver is there.
ReplyDeleteI also cringed and worried that Dean was going to hurt his neck with all the girl watching. For me the real Supernatural ended with season 7. The only way I can stay with it is forgetting all that came before..sad.
I may not be understanding you well, but I can't get on-board with readily excusing reaper canon-trashing by trying to head canon it, mostly because reapers were depicted as working for Death, not God as some form of angel.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the first reaper in Faith, that was early on it was believable when they were more fully developed when Tessa came along Tessa sort of explained that by saying they could appear in a form that was acceptable to the soul being collected. Never, though, did we see them in corporeal form that everyone could see or eating pizzas, or having human feelings to the point of becoming despondent and wanting to commit mass murder or suicide.
In the end, reapers did nothing more than work for Death and collect souls until the Carver years screwed that up royally. What I hated most about that is that they have made Death's character completely irrelevant, to the point I see no reason why he would ever come back on the show. I really liked that character.
That is all assumption. Fans should have a clear enough picture of the story, especially by now, that having to fill in the blanks isn't necessary. We don't know how the Mark works, what it is doing to Dean, how it is affecting him (he's not coughing up blood and on the verge of dying this time around). We don't know what Dean thinks about the Mark, other than he has decided to hunt while he can and then....something. We don't know if it has given Dean any powers or not -- certainly none that we have seen and certainly none even close to what Cain has (blade or no blade). Is Dean immortal? Don't know. Cain is immortal because he is a demon. Is there still some demon in Dean? Don't know.
ReplyDeleteRight now, it still appears as if the writers are winging it. Granted, it appears that they may have come up with some resolution, but we don't have enough information to know what that is.
We don't really know that. Except that Cas said if Dean couldn't be cured of being a demon, he was a ticking nuclear bomb by being a Mark-bearer, and then Dean implied that he couldn't die when he told Cas to throw him into the sun. In this last episode, it was left unclear as to what Dean's plan is, except he will hunt until....what? He kills innocents? He loses control? Then what? Is Cas supposed to throw him into the sun or does he just die? The writers have put no parameters on the Mark story, so they can pretty much do anything the want and call it good.
ReplyDeleteAgree; huge numbers of accidents in suburban areas are caused by deer. If not a deer a dog (we once hit our breaks to avoid a dog in the middle of the road and went over a cliff; dog wasn't hit so there was no "evidence" why except other people saw it and were willing to testify what happened). One-car accidents are generally ruled inexplicable if no one is there to testify.
ReplyDeleteI understand: Tessa is the first Reaper we meet who explains herself. But to me (and again, this is religious wanking) all Creation comes from God. Death said that he believed himself coeval with God. BUT I don't think Death could "create" his assistants. So I can religiously understand that God created the Reapers to assist Death, which is part and parcel to life.
ReplyDeleteI KNOW that because I am trying to put the Supernatural universe into a religious order (like the Leviathan were the first creation, various commenters have posited that Eve was a Leviathan who began birthing monsters -- works for me but only as an understanding of the world that Supernatural created -- I know the SHOW never said anything like that) so I can understand it. But I also understand that Show Never Said Any of This. But I don't think I am just "fanwanking" it either. I can accept Reapers going Rogue (when the Winchesters rebelled from their destiny it set a lot of things in motion, free will for angels like Balthazar and full-scale sell-out for angels like Ion) but will have to say I agree with those who say that Castiel unknowingly slept with rape-victim April. Poor woman (she herself was probably a nice person -- I believe April gave him the sandwich but the April who took him home was the Reaper).
I can get down with that as an explanation for what happened in the episode and what Dean said at the end.
ReplyDeletePeople are always talking about "altruistic" people who do good and get nothing out of it. I always think the opportunity to do good gives ME the feeling of receiving grace. One day last year I was driving home from a movie. Live in a small town. Nothing open on Saturday after 5:00 (library closed, Mass at 6:00); went home. Ran into a couple outside of town who ran out of gas. Gave wife a ride to gas station, back to car. Waited for car to start and them to go home.
It was then time for 6:00 Mass. I went, but it wasn't going to Mass that made me feel "grace" it was doing the right thing by this couple. So I had already done my "religious" thing.
Dean I think feels Grace when he saves somebody, putting his life on the line like he did for Delilah. TRYING to talk Andrew into giving it up, calling Sam who was with Andrew's wife; I don't know it Dean wanted her to try, but he USED the phone to call Sam who I think said he was going to wife's home (or was in the vicinity as home was near accident site). And feeling Grace in anyone's life is a powerful Good Feeling.
PS I don't think Dean is religious at all, but he does tap into that while saving people from harm (like Tina and Sam last week and Delilah this week). And, Ginger, I do KNOW the Show doesn't say any of this. But we all have to put the episodes of this monster-show in some kind of understandable cosmological order.
Nope to you. You said the idea wasn't original. Carver rewrote badly Gamble's story now he's badly rewriting not only Kripke's (Dean going to hell bit) but he's rewriting badly films that SN alum have been in and that's saying something cause movie gave new meaning to the word bad to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI still say that SPN hasn't been the same since they allowed fanboys to become writers and producers.
ReplyDeleteThese writers do not have the depth and emotion that Raelle Tucker, John Shiban, Cathryn Humphries, Sera Gamble and Eric Kripke and others had. They allowed Jeremy Carver control and the fanboys to write. You're supposed to be a fan of the show you're writing for but it's not great when you rip apart canon, make a mockery of success that got you 10 seasons and generally just write silly daydreams into a script, With the exception of a few scenes and moments, a lot of these episodes could come straight from poorly edited fan fiction. That's my biggest problem. The fanboys go for "cute, funny, man cave hijinks" instead of STORY. I love SPN, I love Sam and Dean. I love Crowley. I hate the writers, the shippers, and anyone who thinks I want to see my Dean Winchester with chinese food hanging out of his mouth for shits and giggles. This is not a shit and giggle show. At least it wasn't until the childish fanboys took over.
THIS episode left me too apathetic to even bother to gripe. I have to admire LC’s commitment
ReplyDeleteto Spoiler TV. If it’d been me, I’d have called in sick.
It wasn’t just bad; it was a great big fat YAWN.
Well, it was already done in Bad Boys, when little Timmy (who didn't get stuck in the well!) just told his ghost!Mama to go (and since the veil was already screwed up, didn't that just send crazy ghost!Mama to a happy place); so wife (whose name NONE OF US seem to remember, just Andrew's wife) telling Andrew to just go was already established canon. Come to think of it, it was the same thing in Ghostfacers when Ed helped Corbin move on. So that's canon back to Season 4 that a loved one CAN assist a ghost in leaving. TADA.
ReplyDeleteDont worry too much it was just a stand alone, next week will be back to Dean and Cain, with Cas getting his scenes with Cain too and Dean with Crowley. Jared only filmed a day so he wont be in the episode much so good news, something for you to look forwards too. Though after that you might not like the Cole episode coming up (not sure if you're a fan or not) but it ill be Dean centric, then a MOTW episode so unfortunately more Sam but then Jared didnt film much of the next episode after that which I believe is the one rumored to be Dean going undercover/becoming a double agent. I have read s spoiler that the brothers will be separated in the last couple of episodes of the season which might be better for Sam fans, as it seems like he might have his own thing going on but Dean fans who dont like Sam can just skip his scenes if they want.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's the ticket: let's move people from Wincest to DESTIEL. And then not do anything to move THAT along either.
ReplyDeletePercysowner (I assume Percy is a pet?) as just a human being who tries to make sense of two OTHER human beings raised into a TOTALLY bizarre lifestyle by their dad, I can see Wincest as the outgrowth of two boys raised with "nobody else" in their world. Dad probably renting rooms with "two queens" and the boys sleeping together until maybe pre-teens. One brother forced by circumstances to fulfill the "nurturing" role in the family for BOTH Dad and Brother. When I think about the life these two led, I can SEE some lines being crossed.
So, they keep the universe, but everybody is getting freaked about the "morethanbrothers.com" stuff. So they write in Destiel to get the heat off the brothers. BUT it was a conscious decision to have Castiel too close, too "stare-y" at the mouth, looking uncomfortable when Dean and Anna kissed (and I will say, my FIRST view of that was, did Cas like Anna? or maybe he didn't like the idea of inter-species sex? But then I watched again and the sight-lines were ALL ON DEAN.), or just doing creepy thing when Dean was sleeping. They wrote it in, it TOOK OFF. Go for it. Or have Castiel explain that he was created to love GOD and when GOD left he had nothing and then he found Dean and was sorry if he was making Dean uncomfortable. DO SOMETHING, writers. Just resolve the issue.
I wonder how they explain Sam's absence through most of the next episode, they dont need to have him knocked out do they? Why cant they just have him stay at the bunker after the first scene. H isnt relevant to the storylines so why does he even need to go with Dean? I would prefer he just stayed behind than be knocked out for the rest of the episode.
ReplyDeleteAmen, sister. They did this and then they didn't resolve it. EVERYTHING you said is true, BUT I can totally get behind Destiel never happening. I did not know people were tweeting "hints" like you said, BUT unlike you, I don't think that happened on its own. I think they wanted "social media" to explode like it did. For instance I always found it hilarious that people didn't know Xena and Gabrielle were gay. I was at work, two 20-somethings were discussing the latest Xena and then one said, there is something about that show, I just don't get it, I feel they are reaching for something, yeah yeah in reply. I said, don't you know they are gay? But rather than "gay" gay they have an episode of Xena and old boyfriend, Gabrielle and old boyfriend, THEN some chick comes around and tries to steal Gabrielle from Xena, then back to the beginning. They both looked OH and got it. We all went back to work.
ReplyDeleteThat show had Xena and Gabrielle kissing (usually one giving mouth to mouth but more than once in a while) and people KNEW but could not GET, Weird stuff from the writers.
They're most dragging it on because they dont know how much longer the series is going to go on and don want to start a new major storyline. Viewers are up this year but demo is down interestingly, which tells me that a good chunk of Dean fans seem to be either younger or older than the key 18-49 demo. More importantly this current storyline allows for Jared to only have to work a day or two an episode as he requested more time off to be with his family.
ReplyDeleteYou're RIGHT: No Samsel, No chair-fu, No concussion syndrome. I am in shock!
ReplyDeleteWhat do you want to bet Castiel and Sam go to talk to Cain, and either one or BOTH of them are taken prisoner and then Dean says, It's down to me. And the fight is on.
ReplyDeleteI'll be here next week to collect my huzzahs.
Aside from the suggestive dialogue on the show, I fault Misha Collins for constantly tweeting "Dean likes to bottom" repeatedly over the years. Naturally, the rabid shippers falsely got their hopes up: "Well, if Misha keeps talking about it on Twitter, then destiel will certainly happen, right?"
ReplyDeleteWrong.
Ben Edlund's stupid dialogue ("Cass, get out of my ass!") was bad enough, but Collins' tweets were the icing on the cake. I always assign mishmash a large amount of responsibility whenever this subject comes up. He's earned and deserves his share of the blame.
The best way to get Jensen Ackles to break his contract and leave the show? Make destiel canon. If Jensen dislikes answering destiel questions at cons I doubt seriously if he wants to climb into bed with MC or get into an onscreen liplock with him. And let's face it, hardcore m/m sex is what those fans want to see. Make destiel canon and JA will be out of there so fast he'll make the Flash look like a snail in comparison, and if Jensen goes it's very likely Jared will too. On at least two separate occasions that I know of J2 deliberately changed dialogue that implied destiel to something neutral. In "Goodbye Stranger" Dean was supposed to tell birdy "Cas, I love you." Jensen changed it to "Cas, I need you. We're family." In another episode Sam had dialogue in which he admitted that he knew Dean "loved" bird butt. Jared changed that dialogue to "we're family" or something similar.
That's another reason why I don't worry about destiel. Carver isn't very imaginative, but he knows better than to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. The shippers can continue to delude themselves with hints that bird butt was coming even as far back as Route 666: Dean's GF in that one was Cas(sie) and her mom wore a tan raincoat. Every time Dean and cassbutt look at each other they're having eyesex.
The more those fans harass and send death tweets to the writers the more resistant Carver and company will become to the idea of destiel as canon. I believe destiel will be ignored right up to the moment SPN goes to its final scene in the series finale, and after that those shippers will have their manips and their fics to keep them warm.
You said, "Yes, agree. That's the feeling I'm getting too. The, "Let's ride this to the end with minimum effort," feeling."
ReplyDeleteDo you get the felling, as I am, that the network has decided not to invest in a spin-off (from these writers) and have given Carver the directive to go after the younger audience and just keep the show on the air as long as possible knowing that the loyal long-term (and older) fanbase will stick with the show and keep the number just good enough. Meanwhile, they are giving the Js part-time work and full-time pay using them as bait, and having them attend an increased number of cons to keep the audience pumped? That's kind of how I see the direction of the show at the moment.
And you know all of this for certain how? No viewer knows what will be in the episodes yet. We don't even know how much the MoC story plays into the last part of the season, nor do we know if Dean gets rid of it this coming week or keeps it while Sam veers off to have his own promised "personal journey," and we don't know if JP will be sitting in Texas having that personal journey or not.
ReplyDeleteGeez, JP filmed 4 days out of 8. Get a life, seriously.
ReplyDeleteOh, I know that telling the ghost to move on worked previously in canon. What bothered me was that the wife didn't know that and she was still being blamed for what her husband did. I liked that it worked. I didn't like the OMG it's all my fault those kids died because I didn't tell my husband to not be a ghost. As I said, she wasn't a hunter or anyone with knowledge of the supernatural. She was just a grieving widow whose husband came back as a ghost, who accepted the comfort of him still being with her.
ReplyDeleteI didn't get that the wife was to blame in any sense. I think she felt badly because the good gentle man (just my idea, the woman was nice and I bet Andrew was nice) she loved had gone ghost-crazy and murdered three people. What they did was wrong, but an accident. What he did was intentional. So she felt bad. But I didn't blame her. Do you think she was blameworthy or just believed the script pointed out that she was blameworthy?
ReplyDeleteI did not feel she was blameworthy. I think the script told us she was because she said she was and that she should have done an unnamed something to get Andrew to move on.
ReplyDeleteSo you felt the script pushed the audience in that direction. Ok, I didn't get that at all, but I understand you did. Thank you for responding.
ReplyDeleteOne way to look at it is that creation is antithetical to Death's whole purpose.
ReplyDeleteThe original scene of Dean's resurrection had the Mark glowing once Crowley put the FB in his hand. But I think they changed it to keep it slightly ambiguous.
ReplyDeleteHe's always checked women, in every season I'll be damned if you don't find a few episodes where he's checking out a women.
ReplyDeleteExcept the specific examples she gave didn't seem like stuff a hacker would find in an email.
ReplyDeleteThat is true. I mean you look at Tumblr, and there are metas about Dean eating cake in "About a Boy" = Destiel (though they do ignore that Dean said he didn't like the cake) and the croisookie in this episode. It's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteTPTB really don't play to the shippers with it though, the Gamble years they tossed out literally a handful of jokes about it and that was it, everything else is people making out of context gifs and screaming about subtext.
Hell last year Jensen finally gave his thoughts on the whole thing, and he shot it down as something people are blowing out of proportion, he of course got his head ripped off for speaking his mind about. Jared said some things about it too, that shippers didn't like.
ReplyDeleteMisha is the worst about it though, because he constantly throws gas on the fire. Like he actually told a con audience it was going to become canon once.
I don't know about all these hints, but I do recall Robbie Thompson jokingly tweeting "it's not canon?" to a shipper once. And that's the problem, the shippers can't differentiate between reality, and a dumb joke.And I know Adam Glass has oft repeated the sentiment, 'see what you want, I can't tell you to stop.'
ReplyDeleteThat also seemed like kind of a retcon going back to season 2. Like what is the reapers role in a ghost moving on of it's own accord? Cause I remember Tessa telling Dean, you only get one shot, go with a reaper or stay and become vengeful.
ReplyDeleteTowards the end there seemed to be some guilt on her part, because she knew he came back for revenge, but it was still her husband, etc...
ReplyDeleteThat was my only problem with it also, I was afraid he was going to get a crick in his neck. ;)
ReplyDeleteBut in Roadkill the Molly ghost did not seem like a vengeful spirit, she had none of the ghost powers, like throwing people around. Matter of fact, she seemed to be a Sixth Sense type of ghost, not knowing she was a ghost.
ReplyDeleteAnd in the end Sam and Dean "talked" her into going into the light. So that negates also what Tessa said. She got to go when she was ready to go.
Now the dude she accidentally killed, HE was a vengeful spirit.
I just don't think that there is any way to "resolve the issue" without writing Cas out. Now, I don't agree that Destiel was written to get rid of the Wincest. Cas wasn't originally supposed to be the long term character, Anna was. So he wasn't created to provide an alternate slash pairing to Sam/Dean. Yes, the pairing took off with many fans. Yes, the writers gave nods to that pairing the way they did and still do to Wincest. But a certain part of the Destiel supporters became extremely invested in the relationship be on screen and made canon. As they became more insistent, they became more aggressive and they attributed every interaction between Dean and Cas as leading to onscreen Destiel. Most of the cast and crew have repeatedly stated that on screen Destiel will not happen. That didn't stop the demands. It intensified them and had some fans saying that anyone who didn't support Destiel was homophobic. Then came the charges that the show was queerbaiting by not having Destiel be canon. So the writers went with Plan B keep Dean and Cas apart and hope the demands would die out and to not queerbait any longer. This still hasn't worked. As Hellboy and I have described part of the fandome is claiming that the writers are still promising Destiel by looking at wallpaper and Dean eating cake.
ReplyDeleteThe only resolution some of the fans will accept is giving them on screen, 100% undeniable Destiel. The writers may have poked the bear with this, but really this kind of campaign for a canon slash relationship is unprecedented in my experience. I like slash. I have slash couples I ship. I have never demanded that my ship become canon and I have never been downright nasty and insulting to the writers who didn't make it canon. I don't know how to resolve this issue without caving to those demanding Destiel. Even if they do, they risk alienating those who are sick of the demands that Destiel become canon and who would be just as angry as the fans who want it are now. If you are upset by the lack of Cas and Dean interaction, you need to look at the actions of certain rabid fans.
Note: I like shipping. I think shipping any pairing is great. I do not ship Destiel, but more power to those who do so IN FANFIC, manips, artwork, etc. I am in no way saying all or most people who ship Destiel are being problematic. I suspect the writers would be far, far happier if they could keep Dean and Cas interacting and not be called homophobes and queerbaiters. They certainly prefer writing for both Cas and Dean over giving any dialog to Sam. But this is a hornet's nest that just won't go away.
Vengeful, not vengeful Molly still missed the boat on moving on with a reaper when she died.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment. I know that Anna was supposed to be the angel support character and that Castiel was supposed to be a short-term character (I wonder how they planned to write him out? I get curious about this background stuff.) and that Anna would have been a more "acceptable" love interest for Dean (after she became an angel and became "alien" again I suppose she was supposed to remember human passion somewhat; but I don't know, am only positing).
ReplyDeleteI just think the writers "fed the beast" too long (through all three showrunner regimes); I have never felt the NEED to see Destiel on screen and I would never ever push/expect it to happen.
I don't attend conventions, I am not on tumblr; I gather the conversations THERE get very heated. I was unaware that Supernatural is unique in this regard but thinking on what you said I am willing to believe that it is unique to Supernatural. Thank you for your response.
Sometimes I find people put SO MUCH on the show: for instance, the idea that they always drive the Impala. Season 7 and hiding "Baby" from the Leviathans made sense, get rid of the rock star aliases, be Smith and Jones and Johnson and Parker. They have to change SOME things about the formula. People who complain about the bunker are wrong to me, I think these are guys in the 30s, I want them to have a base. I disliked the idea of killing Bobby because he was too "helpful" (there might have been other story reasons for killing Bobby, but I would have liked to have seen him still as a character). And I am considering what others have said, that sometimes the show operates too much as a fan service. There is a difference between giving your fans a good story and giving them what they WANT. Because what they WANT can be a repetition of certain stories just a "little" bit differently. Again thanks for the reply.
Hellboy: what the hay? I am gobsmacked to think eating case equals destiel.
ReplyDeleteAre those people 'shrooming in the ball pit? Why would a cross between a croissant and a cookie equal destiel. Normally I would say, what are the sites for this kind of off-the-wall but I don't think I want to go there.
I do think Sera Gamble worked really hard to resolve the issue without having Destiel on screen. All of season six led to the reveal that Castiel was using the brothers to find Purgatory. He killed Dr. Visniak the friendly Purgatory native. He then attacked Sam by breaking his wall, something that should have been unforgivable to Dean. She then killed him off in the second episode in season seven and she intended to have him stay dead. Rumor had it that she had trouble managing the budget and Robert Singer was made co-producer. He insisted Cas be brought back. So however it played out, Sera Gamble did her level best to write the show out of the Destiel quandary, only to have Singer write it back in.
ReplyDeleteI agree she missed her Reaper: she appears to have been concentrated on "saving" her husband and was looking for him for 15 years. Once she saw he was safe she "let go" and went into the light. So it was canon from the get-go that a spirit could "let go" and I like that idea. Oh, and Corbin got peace too. (I liked Corbin.l)
ReplyDeleteThank you for the behind the scenes info. I had heard that Gamble wanted Castiel out of the cast (still don't know why but maybe because she wanted to end the shipper wars -- just a surmise); do you know why Singer insisted? As an aside, on soaps the writer who creates a character gets a bonus depending on how popular the character is. That's why when soaps got new writers you would find they would bring in new characters to "freshen up" the show. So was Singer instrumental in bringing Castiel in as a recurring character?
ReplyDeleteI don't know how anybody else feels, but HOW a show is put together (and this show in particular) is fascinating to me. Stuff like Sam being Kripke's avatar and Dean originally going to be REALLY just dumb muscle. And the production team sees how things develop and they change them as needed.
Eric Kripke wrote Lazarus Rising, which was Castiel's first appearance, so he would be the person getting royalties, if the structure is the same as daytime writers. I haven't heard why Gamble wanted to get rid of Castiel. Perhaps she felt she couldn't do much with him after season six. For me it has become a merry-go-round of Cas has angel powers and therefore makes it too easy to solve every problem that comes along so we will take away his powers, but oops now we can't write him as anything but comic interest, so we will give him back his powers, but now he's so strong he can solve any problem that comes along. Lather rinse repeat. But that may not have been Gamble's reason.
ReplyDeleteAs for Singer insisting Cas come back, Cas is a popular male character who isn't Bobby's age. The show has been more than willing to get rid of popular female characters (I'm looking at Ellen here and many felt Abaddon could have had a longer more interesting part to play). I think Singer wanted to retain the fans who love Cas, which is understandable. Personally I think it was a slap in Gamble's face as well. A way of putting her in her place and showing her she no longer had control of the show. That I totally MY feeling and not anything I read or have heard talked about. I will note that in the run up to the 200th episode when they were talking about all the great contributors to the show, Sera Gamble was only mentioned once and that was by Eric Kripke. That adds to my feeling that there was bad blood there. Again this is just my feeling, nothing like this has ever been said publicly.
But then what are the reapers role in that. Do the spirits just get an elevator to Heaven? Does the reaper come back to guide it?
ReplyDeleteIt also extends to wallpaper, and Dean sleeping on one side of the bed, or the shirt Dean is wearing. Remember the punk angel that was guarding the portal from a few episodes back? Her mohawk was purple/blue/pink -- the bisexual pride flag. So naturally they tried to tie that into Destiel, of course the actress said that the hair was all her, and she didn't know about bi pride flag colors, when she dyed her hair.
ReplyDeleteI have understood that Castiel is literally a deus ex machina and that becomes a plot problem. People are running from werewolves, Castiel shows up and glows blue, problem solved. The BEST way to deal with that, and it was ended far too quickly for my taste, was Crazy Castiel of Season 7. He had all the powers in the world but had to be persuaded to do anything. So they had a solution but didn't stick with it. (And then Crazy Cas could have continued to ACT crazy even when he wasn't because that's was just how he behaved. People would get used to Talking Like This to him so he would Respond Like This. He would not/did not want to return to Heaven (guilt) so would stay and try to take care of things but be crazy taking care of things.
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily comic relief, just he would be overburdened by what he had gone through. But maybe it would've fallen into comic relief and they did not want the angel of the lord to be comic relief only.
Gamble wrote a lot of good scripts. That was crummy nobody mentioned her but it is understandable, we have the guy who started the show, we have the guy running the show now, I can see why her two years in the middle were short-shrifted BUT I did think she had good uber plots. The execution was often off, but I liked the idea of Purgatory and then the Leviathans. I did NOT like her idea to kill Bobby and Rufus so Sam and Dean would be alone again (and as you said, Castiel too); bad idea imo.
Well, when Bobby went "on" they said their good-byes and burned/melted the flask; he disappeared. We later found out he was SUPPOSED to go to Heaven but that Crowley behind the scenes had subverted that and brought him to Hell. So in Bobby's case we know he rejected his Reaper and then "left" when they melted the flask.
ReplyDeleteSame thing with Molly; she rejected her Reaper (I think because she was tied to worry about her husband after the accident like in 6th Sense -- did not KNOW she was dead) and then when she saw her husband was safe she went on.
It works for me.
Thanks for the laugh. Now I can go to bed with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart.
ReplyDeleteHated this episode for almost all of the reasons you listed.
ReplyDelete(Pervy Dean) is not sexy, attractive or funny. He could be their dad now and it's just creepy.
(All you can Eat Dean) is #supposed to be him feeding the MARK with food instead of the blood and the kills it wants. BUT the writers need to say that instead of making him look like a buffoon who has not had a meal in a thousand years.
(TechoNo Stupid Dean) has been researching and working with computers when Sam was not around and FRANK taught him computer stuff that even SAM said teach me that. Or did the writers get amnesia again.
They make Dean be the grunt, the hunter while Sam is the brain, the Men of Letters. Dean is not book smart but he is intelligent, resourceful and has been raised with survival and street smart savvy instincts that books will NEVER give a Charlie or Sam.
Sam is getting better in the brother department BUT while still haven't forgiven him for leaving Dean in purgatory so he could chase puppy tail with that Dog girl. He is at least fighting for his brother's life and in some ways soul in a way he hasn't before. Now can he just get a haircut and a clue that maybe the answers to the MOC being neutralized are inside of Dean. Cain was able to find an on/off switch. So too must Dean.
My only Gripe remains Demon Dean ended to soon and we don't know everything that he did during that time beside sing karaoke and bromance Crowley. Would love an episode or -flashback- of Soulless Sam and Demon Dean
I love everything you wrote! We need more same people like you in this world. Although it might get boring.
ReplyDeleteMost Victoria Secret Angels and many models for men's magazines are very young. Late teens to early twenties. They aren't getting jobs for being smart. It's biology that we are attracted to then generation in peak reproduction years. It's not creepy when it happens all the time. Is it creepy to watch middle aged women freaking out over much younger Chippendales dancers?
ReplyDeleteI re-read her comment and I think maybe you misunderstood what she meant by it. She meant the same thing you just said - the idea isn't original because it's been done before, more than once.
ReplyDelete