SAM AND DEAN MEET THEIR GRANDFATHER — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are stunned when a man who claims to be Henry Winchester (guest star Gil McKinney), their grandfather, suddenly appears in their hotel room demanding to know where he can find John Winchester. Henry has time-traveled to stop a demon named Abbadon (guest star Alaina Huffman) and was looking for John’s help. Through Henry, Sam and Dean learn more about their father and the Winchester blood line. Serge Ladouceur directed the episode written by Adam Glass (#812).
Source: CW
Supernatural - Episode 8.12 - As Time Goes By - Press Release
10 Jan 2013
Supernatural
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Wait, what the fuck? The Winchesters were hunters, too?
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for this!
I dont think this press release tells the whole of how/why Henry went to the future
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the retcon people! Of course it isn't the "Sam really did look for Dean" retcon I was hoping for. Instead everybody and their cousin are hunters. Good to know.
ReplyDeleteReally? What happened to the Winchesters being civilians?
ReplyDeleteSo John didn't know his family hunted or what?
Maybe he had amnesia.
ReplyDeleteWell this sucks, John knew nothing about hunting until Dean and Sam went back to try and save them..what now all of a sudden he knew. Maybe his dad was not in the picture when he was young, but that can't be right either because he was told to tell his dad hello. I'm so confused. lol This should be interesting to see how the writers work this out without messing up what we have already seen.
ReplyDeleteyou kind of complain a lot. This isn't a retcon and he wasn't a hunter.
ReplyDeletePeople that are complaing
ReplyDelete"In 1958, Henry was involved in an anti-demonic cult. Henry became involved in the cult in the interest of protecting his 7-year-old son, John."
Wasn't a hunter, was just mixed up in something.
If John had knowledge of the supernatural, and having Henry looking for John to help him defeat the supernatural implies that he did, then it is definitely a retcon. Of course this is only a snippet and they have lead us the wrong direction before, but this whole season is based on a retcon so thinking it will be is not that far of a stretch.
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't mean John knew. John didn't know about Mary being a hunter. She kept that from him for over 10 years. Henry could have kept what he was doing from John. He may need John, not because John was a hunter, but because of another reason. Or this whole season is an alternate reality and nothing we have seen can be relied upon.
ReplyDeleteAhhh I forgot about that.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right that it could have happened that way but Mary was out of the hunting life so it wasn't like she was hiding her activities in the present. It would have been much harder to hide if she had been actively involved with the supernatural when John and she were together. John apparently had a close enough relationship with his dad that people in the diner expected John to see him when he was an adult. Who knows? Maybe his dad did hide it. Maybe his dad wants something from John now that is not supernatural help. We've had wrong press releases before. It would be strange though if John Winchester did not know about the supernatural and Henry just showed up and said "Surprise, I need your help with a powerful demon," especially one so powerful as Abbadon. In the end we won't know what happens until we see it.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that if John knew about hunting, or demons from his father then "I learned the truth when I went to Missouri" makes no logical sense. He would have already known that there were supernatural beings in the world and Mary's death would not have been quite as mysterious.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, knowing about demons would explain how John was able to track down Azazel's plan. But why would he pretend that Missouri was the one to clue him in on the supernatural IN HIS JOURNAL? I'm about to throw up my hands and just say WHATEVER! because really we have had continuity problems before, but if the description is accurate then everything we know is up for grabs.
I'm guessing that since John was only 7 when all this happened, he may be part of what Henry was doing, but didn't really know what he was doing. Maybe Henry had him remember a spell or something but just told him it was a poem? And then after this adventure Henry quit demon hunting and John never knew anything else?
Probably not. Probably we are going to get the lesson that hunting evil is on both sides of the family and the only ones who were weak enough to even DREAM of quitting were Mary, who sold her child to a demon and poor, pitiful Sam, who is a coward and deserves to be hated and despised.
Thanks :) I was searching for this
ReplyDeleteOr the angels wiped his mind, AGAIN.
ReplyDeleteThat was my first thought actually. Decided to go with the genre amnesia theme. :-P
ReplyDeleteRetconning again I see. I do not trust Glass, notoriously known as a violator of continuity, to write any Winchester history. just ugh I dread this one now. I wish it was one of the old writers in control.
ReplyDeleteYou had me until the last paragraph, which I don't think anyone but the most fringe fans think and you can't do anything about them anyway. Other than that, this is the core of my issue too. They already ret-conned Mary. To retcon John's journal is way beyond and I can't see them being able to sweep it under the rug no matter what else they have been sweeping under the rug lately. (Let's just say the rug is full - no more room there.) If they are going to say that John knew, they are also going to have to explain how he un-knew and we've had quite enough un-knowing already. If they are going with the idea that John doesn't know and Henry's just going to waltz into his life and spring it on him, then Henry continues the Winchester-Campbell fathers as douches tradition. However in the end, this is not likely to be the most bothersome thing about the episode for me. Presumably the only way that Henry can track the brothers to their hotel room is through their blood and bloodlines are going to play a part in the story. Just how super special can the Winchester bloodline continue to be? It already got them hot seats in the Apocalypse. Where else are they taking this story?
ReplyDeleteI have no IDEA where they are taking this story! Maybe Sam really never got out of the Cage and the last 3 years have all been an hallucination? Or maybe he did get out of the Cage and he hallucinated everything after he stabbed Castiel? This is just such a mess.
ReplyDeleteI've been seriously toying with the Sam is in the cage, only a couple months have gone by, it's all been a Dallas dream scenario myself. It would be the most drastic ret-con imaginable and it would suck storytelling wise but it could make fans who haven't been happy since season 5 ended happy. I would hate making RoboSam snark, Purgatory flash backs, and a lot of seasons 6 and 7 fun merely a dream, but then again I really liked seasons 6 and 7. Still it would open up a lot of possibilities the writers/show runners have pretty much decimated with their choices.
ReplyDeleteThis sucks.
ReplyDeleteI liked the twist when we found out that Mary was the one involved in Hunting and I liked John's innocence in knowing nothing about that world until after Mary died. That journey was what SPN was all about.
Now why on Earth do they have to come out with John's father being in on it too?
What the heck! Is nothing inviolable any more?
What happened to closing the gates of Hell. It might not have been the most enthusiastic of story-lines but it's way better than this random rett-conning of the show.
All we need now is for more amnesia thrown in-Shake the bottle and take a dose twice a day. It helps you forget!!
So based on this and other spoilers Henry kept the truth from John, they werent a family of hunters but Henry encountered the supernatural and he is important to the time line. Demons have been messing with the Winchesters for years which will really bring home the importance of the hell gate closing mission for Sam and Dean. Its time to end the demons V Winchester death match for good. This ties the brothers in nicely with the upcoming mythology on a deeper level and gets the boys heads moe in the game leading to episode 13 where I belive we have been told they will finally have a real heart to heart.
ReplyDeleteYeah I'm not really seeing retonning.
If these writers ret-con everything I'm sure it will turn out a hundred times worse than season 6 and 7 could ever have been.
ReplyDeleteAnyway I liked both those seasons, I wish they would rett-conn season eight instead!
Okay, not sure how valid evidence this is, but in 5x13 John is absolutely shocked and stunned by the revelations about his wife and her family. If I remember correctly, the line goes like "Monsters. MONSTERS? Monsters are real. And you fight them? All of you?"
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure he didn't know anything about monsters and demons until the fire and Missouri. Even if he did learn something when he was seven, well, he was seven. People tend to forget a lot from their childhood.
I thought Henry was coming to the present, not Sam and Dean going back in time?
ReplyDeleteJeremy Carver has no limits in erasing the show canon, so I'm expecting everything.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe I was excited when he was announced as the new show runner. Sera gamble had her problems with the running and plot holes, but at last she never tried to change the core of the show, its whole basis (and I don't mean only the brothers relationship this time) to fit her view, new plot and characters.
Season 8 for me is being more a Supernatural AU First season than Season 8 of the same show. To many and unnecessary changes, all around.
Yes.
ReplyDeleteIf one reads the synopsis carefully, it clearly says that Henry time-travelled to seek out John, which would assume he even knew a spell or something to be able to do that, so he would have to be quite expert in supernatural stuff.
X
Then he appears in the boys' room therefore he knew exactly how to orient himself to the Winchesters. Another sign of expertise.
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Last of all he is looking specifically for John to help him with a demon, which presumes he doesn't think that his son would be too surprised at his dad turning up from 1958 asking him for help.
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Even if John had known and forgotten all his knowledge of the supernatural, it's a fraud towards us the viewers who have followed this story down one road and are now being asked to turn back from all they have known and go down a completely different one.
Either the whole seven seasons are going to be submitted to us as a collective hallucination or the writers are changing history when it's already been written, and I don't like either option.
Past synopses for eps.have always been more or less unsurprising, so there's no reason to think this one will be any different.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteThis show is so full of potential plot-lines and half-forgotten details that could have been used to create interesting story arcs but the 'co-dependent, we'll die and go to hell for each other' relationship between the brothers was what made it unique and stand out from other sibling tv shows.
SPN was all based around the brothers and their family bond.
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If Carver takes that away there is nothing left, and so far he hasn't proposed anything better to take its place.
If Amelia/Sam is one of his biggest plot ideas, then he has failed miserably.
I thought the mom was the one with the hunter family past and John was just a normal dude before she got killed? I'm so confused. Did I miss something?
ReplyDeleteYes, that's the way it has been up until now, ie. John knew nothing about the supernatural until after Mary died, but this episode might change everything!
ReplyDeleteI too liked seasons six and seven, and there are certain parts of them that I don't want to lose, but if they decide to reset things, doing it to the end of season five makes the most sense. The HUGE problem for me is that we were told, by Castiel, that in order to spring Dean they had to send a group of angels to grab him and that several died saving Dean. (Which really parallels Naomi's story about saving Cas, so huh?). Also we were told that the Cage was buried so well that no one really knew where it was. Then suddenly Cas can just take a jaunt down to the unknown location of the Cage and pull Sam out, all by his little lonesome, no problem? As much as I would love to lose the rift between Sam and Dean in seasons 4-5 that is probably going back too far.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Henry Winchester in 1958 was given knowledge that his son, John, would be a hunter therefor when the issue arose he decided to travel to the future to seek his help. Henry just did not know that he has already passed away, because John passed before his time by turning himself over to Azazel to save Dean. Just because Henry Winchester was having issues with a demon doesn't necessarily mean he was a hunter.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the idea of Sam being still in the cage, if they try to pull that off it is going to tear season seven to the ground because they will never be able to tie all the ends together as far as building the wall in Sam's head and Cas taking over the hallucinations It's just going to be too much to try and fix, but then again it leaves it open for Bobby to come back & I miss Bobby!! I believe we are going to learn that Amelia was only a hallucination because they are showing us pointless flashbacks that don't really sum up anything. Maybe Sam went crazy when dean left and this was the world he created for himself. Either way I am dis appointed with this season so far and I really hope they start pulling things together. They have already took Bobby out of the scene(the one person who could help their brotherly issues) and they have taken away the brother bond that makes the show unique. I just can't imagine a world where Sam doesn't look for his brother, and if that is the reality this show is going to hell. (Pun intended)
You are right. Henry is coming to the brothers in the present instead of the brothers going to Henry in the past. However, if Henry makes it through the episode he's got a chance at being recurring which would entail more time travel on someone's part.
ReplyDeleteThat did always seem farfetched to me, especially since Raphael should have been able to stroll right in and let everyone out if Cas could get Sam. No need for a civil war at all. But then again they still haven't clearly explained who's standing guard at the cage either. If angels are then Raphael and Cas would have been better off trying to sway them to their side. If demons are then why all the hullabaloo to spring Lucifer. There's been no indication that Purgatory's finest are guarding it and I'm hoping like crazy it isn't fairies.Then again if no one is guarding it and it's just a matter of finding it and passing through obstacles to get to the door, then why did Raphael sound like by winning the civil war he would be able to break them out quickly. Nothing at all about the cage has ever made sense.
ReplyDeleteok there could be a very simple explanation for this theres no reason to go all crazy everybody. How about that Mary died before Johns father died so John told his father all about the supernatural stuff. I don't remember the show ever saying both Mary and Johns parents were dead before Mary died. I mean Mary and John weren't married for that long if you think about it. Also remember John took the boys and just left without a word to anyone when he started fighting the supernatural. I bet his father didnt even know where they all were half the time and probably didnt believe him about all this supernatural stuff till he saw it for himself.
ReplyDeleteI will keep my fingers crossed that it is something like this and not mess with 7 years of story. These kinds of things don't usually bother me, I say wait for the ep, but this one scares me..I do like your thoughts on this.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that this is the 1950's Henry that comes to the future. John hasn't even met Mary yet in Henry's world. He's only 7 years old when this Henry comes. So unless this Henry can see into the future, he wouldn't know about Mary or her death.
ReplyDelete