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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - The Born-Again Identity?

24 Mar 2012

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378 comments:

  1. Denise24 March 2012 at 01:58

    Best episode. In like - forever. Heartbreaking. Still sobbing

    ReplyDelete
  2. klutzy_girl24 March 2012 at 02:00

    I absolutely loved it! I finally got my Hospitalized!Sam (with a side of crazy) wish after seven years, so yay! Loved Hallucifer's trolling.

    And I'm glad Meg's back. Am I getting it right that she's working at the mental institution to protect Cas? Because the Cas/Meg shipper in me is very happy right now.

    And aww, Cas. It was very sweet of him to do what he did and actually apologize.

    And I ship Sam/Marin. I'm glad he helped her!

    It was an amazing episode.

    ReplyDelete
  3. ScottA24 March 2012 at 02:00

    Meg looks like she's been on Lenny Craig.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Elena Wonderland24 March 2012 at 02:00

    I.HAVE.NO.WORDS.BUT.ONE. :MASTERPIECE

    ReplyDelete
  5. Sara24 March 2012 at 02:03

    Great episode. I'm glad we got to see enough of Sam and not just a few scenes. Also really cool how Sam even went on a hunt especially in his condition. Love that Cas is finally sorry and paying for what he did to Sam. Jared did a great job with crazy!Sam.

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  6. ambthecreative24 March 2012 at 02:04

    I called it last sneak peak. But damn!!!!!!! But God is on his side! He'll be okay! He can't die until he does whatever the hell God needs him to do.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Ally724 March 2012 at 02:05

    :'( :'( ooohhh cass....I can't talk now....*return sobbing under my bed*

    ReplyDelete
  8. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:05

    Why do I feel like Dean's character was assassinated? And Sam just lost the only storyline he had.

    I've dealt with morally ambiguous choices before but I hated this. It over shadowed the good parts of Sam & Lucifer, and Dean's approach to Cas. I hated it, and don't get why some of you loved it. I missed the point apparently.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Sherry24 March 2012 at 02:07

    Wow, What an incredible episode!!! That was amazing!

    ReplyDelete
  10. klutzy_girl24 March 2012 at 02:08

    Dean's character wasn't assassinated. The mental hospital is the safest place for him now, especially with Cas losing his mind. Meg's there to protect him. Dean did the right thing, tbh.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Sara24 March 2012 at 02:09

    Not for me. This is just the first step. What he did was pretty bad. It takes more than just feeling sorry and switching places with Sam. After all Sam had to endure that when he didn't even deserve it.

    ReplyDelete
  12. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q24 March 2012 at 02:09

    ****SPOILERS*****Purely AMAZING episode.  Actually made me sob in a few places.  And Cas was so upset for what he'd done.... And Dean talking to him, not in bitterness or spite but almost, dare I say forgiveness?  Or as close as one can come in that situation I suppose.  And giving the trenchcoat back!  Hahaha, even if Cas looked horrible in it, the sentimental value brought another tear to my eye!  And those last scenes?  EPIC. I'm glad it wasn't a simple solution like just healing what was done.  Cas took it into himself to save Sam.  Brilliant episode.  Simply brilliant. Perfect blend of Sam, Dean, and Cas in this episode.  And the preview for next week looks better then the promopics haha.  Sadly I'm just ready to skip to the next Castiel episode, kthxbye  

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  13. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:14

    DAYUM!!! That was freakin' awesome!!
    I was actually dreading coming into this one because I didn't want to see what was going to happen to Sam and I worried that the eventual solution they'd come up with wouldn't be credible, but man did they hit this one out of the park!
    MAJOR kudos to Jared...he handles the tough, angsty stuff SO freakin' well! And only Sam would be completely falling apart himself and still coming to the aid of a damsel in distress. I absolutely loved that.
    Nice to see some actual focus on Dean's part for a change...and especially to have it directed at his brother. I missed that big brotherly concern. Loved the very beginning when he stormed into the doctor's office...that's more like it!
    Mark Pelligrino continued to rock. The man makes your skin crawl and makes you laugh at the same time...how brilliant is that?
    Not thrilled with Rachel Miner's Meg...she just lacks the menace that Nicki Aycox had. But at least now we have an idea of where things stand with the demons...they're up to their usual tricks.
    And then there's Cas. Love how they played that out...the comeback, then getting his memory back. Sigh...man, it was just nice having Misha back again. I'm sorry the way it shook out but, hey, Cas did say he'd fix things for Sam...unfortunately, he had to sacrifice himself to do it.
    I was on the edge of my seat for the last few moments there, just hoping they'd get to Sam in time...whew!
    Oh...loved the added touch with the book falling off the table. How cool was it to have Bobby reaching out and helping his boys? Awesome!
    My one small complaint is the very end...would it have killed them to have given us the emo moment? This whole episode had a classic SPN feel to it, but it lacked that moment. It's almost as if the powers that be are determined not to give it to us for some reason and that's annoying.
    But otherwise, this episode totally rocked. I have to take off one point for the ending, but I'm giving it a 9 out of 10!

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  14. SmallvilleSupernaturalCastle24 March 2012 at 02:15

    definitley one of the first episodes of this season that I absolutley loved and put in top 20 or so of the best in the series. This season has been really hard to watch with cas dead (except for now which he's back!) and bobby dead (i'll talk about that next) and most of the episodes were ok (the worst was the wedding episode absolutly despised it) this season. I have said this once and I’ll say it again I love this show big time its in my top 5 and want it to be renewed for season 8 but I think the show has run its course and think they should make it the final season next season. 8’s a good number and the only reason’s I would want more then 8 is if they can add back cas or bobby, integrate new characters to the cast that we could learn to love like them, and go like full steam ahead on the leviathan story and not go 3 steps from where it began… There’s been little to no progress except for learning the leviathan boss is Dick Roman and that they have a weakness to….soap…Even the whole Lucifer story was a little more exciting. But if they do only go one more season they need to go full steam and bring back a lot of great characters ( I recommend bobby and cas get large story arcs). And I really loved this episode bringing back Castiel was great. As a healer I liked the character because its just like the old Cas when he had an episode where he acted less stressed and different. And bringing Cas literally back with memories and all was great and im glad he really feels the pain of the mass destruction he caused. I mean he pretty much did as much damage as Lucifer. Lastly with him I like the way their keeping him in the story like Elijah on VD without having him. Having him take on Lucifer for Sam is a good way not just for story but for Cas’s redemption. He caused Lucifer to come out and now because of it he has to take that burden on fully. As much as I love Cas im actually happy he’s been cursed with the devil it makes up for the evil he did and in a lot of shows heros that turn villains don’t usually get the redemption where they have to face their problem literally like that. Lastly (I promise) I am 99.9% sure bobby is officially a ghost or spirit that is helping the brothers out. If its not bobby then I hope maybe john Winchester! That would be great to bring him into season 8! But I wonder how bobby knew of Cas being alive I don’t think many ghosts could leave far from where they are tied to which is dean and sam (because dean something of his but I forgot what it was exactly).

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  15. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:16

    She's working there to keep Crowley away from Cas because she wants to use him herself.  It was an amazing episode! :)

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  16. ambthecreative24 March 2012 at 02:16

    There's nothing more Castiel can do. Hell, he wishes he had stayed dead. This is just plain not being fair.  In other words, there's nothing he can do. He can never be forgiven.

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  17. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q24 March 2012 at 02:17

     I wouldn't say its insant forgiveness, far from it. No one on this show is perfect though, and I think Dean's realizing that.. well, they're all broken.  That's why he wasn't beating Cas over the head with the 'you're an evil bastard' bit.  I FAR from think Castiel feels like this is all he needs to do.  There's only so much you can fit into one episode. 

    Besides, who actually wants Castiel to go around with his two finger fix-it-all and make up for /everything/ that happened? 

    And we have at least two more Cas episodes this season.. Lets see what happens :)

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  18. rehabber24 March 2012 at 02:18

    I am thrilled with this ep and the way they brought Cass back.  Tears were flowing.  How can they finish this story in 3 eps, I want many more.  Is Meg going to hang around to take protect Cass from Crowley? I was disappointed that Sam's trouble was over so soon.

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  19. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:18

    I wish I could feel that. At least when Dean killed Amy, I felt it was in character, though it hurt. This ambiguity just makes me cross my eyes. Dean just did not feel in character to me much at all, except the parts as big brother worrying from Sam, and the part talking to Cas.

    And what is up with Sam? Suddenly all is well and no hallucinations? This ep left me angry and confused, and I'm struggling to understand why others loved it.

    Where were the parts in the promo? Some lines were cut.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Kate Lee24 March 2012 at 02:20

    Jared, one again, totally knocked it out of the park. He was awesome in this satisfactory episode. Satisfactory because Cas *finally* is feeling and experiencing all the Hell that Sam experienced, which needs no reminding that all started with Cas in the first place i.e. knowingly using Sam to start the Apocalypse and telling Dean to leave Sam in Hell in order to let the soulless hunter survive.  I thought wanted Dean to kill Cas but this is soooo much better, that Cas is left behind to suffer Sam’s pain that he had caused.

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  21. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:20

    Uh he did a little more than just apologize...he took Sam's problems on himself and healed Sam.  I'd say that was a pretty big gesture.   Instant forgiveness?  No...forgiveness is a process, but he definitely showed that he wants to earn it.  I give him credit for that.

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  22. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:21

    Wow.. just wow. Welcome back Cas. :)  I absolutely loved this episode. I'm not even sure how do review it. I'll try like I do most of them, by character.

    Meg.. is it me or did she turn into chubby chipmunk cheeks? A few times I had to look twice to recognize her. I have to say I wasn't really blown away with her. She didn't have that nasty Meg edge to her and she kind of left me.. eh...

    Dean.. Welcome back big brother. Yeah I would have liked a bit more big brother with Sam helping him deal but he was doing what he needed to do. This episode had a lot of "Faith" flashback moments. Faith: Sam telling Dean to get mad and fight. Tonight: Dean telling Sam to get mad and fight. Faith: Sam working non stop for a cure. Tonight: Dean working non stop to find a cure. Cudos to Dean (Jensen), he was great. I thought for a moment he was going to go wimpy with the reminiscing scene but he pulled it out.

    Lucifer.. Man how can you NOT love him? He was fantastic....I have to say if he were in my head I'd be bonkers in a day. The food thing... ewww...

    Sammy, man did he break my heart. Jared knocked this one not only out of the park but into orbit. He had me in tears, and he had me smiling. Only Sammy would try and save someone else while he was dying... The scenes with him and Lucifer were fantastic. 

    And finally.. Cas... Man I didn't realize how much I missed him until I saw him. And I LOVED how he was like Castiel from the beginning.. That kind of deadpan no sense of humor but funny Cas. Please, please, please Sera, don't turn him into something ugly again... Welcome back Misha, we missed you. 

    My rating.. 10 out of 10.. my one tiny tiny bitch... I wanted a chick flick moment with Sam and Dean. I mean Sam was dying.. We couldn't get 3 minutes of the brothers hugging or something... Sigh...

    ReplyDelete
  23. klutzy_girl24 March 2012 at 02:21

    Sam isn't hallucinating anymore because Cas took them on.

    ReplyDelete
  24. rehabber24 March 2012 at 02:22

    When Cas broke Sam's wall, he did not know that he was going to run into the Levi problem and would have fixed Sam then.  He told Dean he was sorry and would have healed Sam then except he was to weak.  

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  25. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:22

    Dean's character was assasinated?  I honestly don't see what you mean about that.  Cas did what he had to do...Dean, for once, stopped feeling sorry for himself and focused on helping his little brother.  If anything, I'd say Dean's character was restored, not assasinated, but that's just me.

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  26. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:24

    Did you watch it? Sam has no hallucinations because Cas took them. He took Lucifer into his own head. 

    As for Dean's character being assassinated... you lost me there. Dean was finally more like Dean than he's been in ages. 

    ReplyDelete
  27. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:25

    I'm glad to read that some other Dean fans do not feel the same as me. I hope you can convert me eventually. I missed the point completely here.

    ReplyDelete
  28. ScottA24 March 2012 at 02:27

    I pretty much agree with you, Zoe. I felt Dean would have shown much more emotion than he did upon seeing Cas.That wasn't like Dean. And tell me if I just missed something but who was Dean calling when he stopped at the store? And how exactly did Cas come back from the dead?  Cas didn't fear Lucifer before, (or at least didn'y show it) why now?

    It just seemed to me that the extreme contempt Dean showed for PuffyMeg was equalled by the lack of compassion for Cas.

    Sorry for the punctuation and spelling. Too dark in here!

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  29. chris68424 March 2012 at 02:27

    Voted "Great."  Loved seeing Cas and Meg back.  Also enjoyed the Dean/Cas reunion and the Sam/hospital girl pip scenes.  It was missing something to give it a "wow" factor, so it didn't get "awesome," but it got a "great."  Maybe it's because I like Cas with a little more attitude and Sam a little more aggressive.  I'm not sure yet.  I'll have to rewatch.

     'm not sure what I think about Sam's post Hell trauma being transferred to Cas.  It's fitting as far as Cas's redemption story is concerned.  I thought his story would involve some sacrifice.  It's also fitting for Sam considering his whole trauma has been treated as something physical this season rather than something emotional, so while this development is not surprising, it makes Robert Singer's comment in EW about Sam having an "emotional story" this season seem even more bizarre.  At this point I'm wondering what show he was watching that he confused with Supernatural.  Part of me at this point just wants to bury the whole Sam/Hell storyline anyway and get Sam back to being a functional person again, so I'll move past this.

    I'll probably comment more on this tomorrow after I've had a chance to rewatch.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:28

    You really did..Deangirl is right this was one of the better episodes for Dean.

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  31. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:30

    But doesn't that sort of take away Sam's ptsd storyline? Does it mean we'll never see Sam interact with Lucifer again? That bothers me almost as much as OOC Dean tonight.

    I 'm big on the brothers saving themselves in the end. I get the justice of Cas feeling what Sam felt in this - but it also takes away his story. And Dean... I just don't know. It felt like it needed a stronger finale for sure.

    Thanks for trying to comfort me :)

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  32. Sara24 March 2012 at 02:30

    I found it odd that Dean showed more emotion when Bobby was dying than Sam. Don't know what was going on but considering he's usually the emotional center, he really didn't seem too emotionally invested for some reason.

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  33. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:30

    What ambiguity?  What about that episode was ambiguous?  I actually thought they did a great job at giving a credible solution to Sam's problem (as klutzy said, Cas took the hallucinations on himself to heal Sam) and to further the Leviathan storyline...I knew we hadn't heard the last of the demons.  I'm sure there will be more to come between the guys and Cas, as Dean in particular still has a lot of weight he's carrying around on that count, but so far, I think it was brilliantly handled.

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  34. rehabber24 March 2012 at 02:32

    I was watching the bonus material on disk 6, season 5 and don't know how I had missed it as many times as I have watched, but Eric said that John was supposed to be God.  I loved JDM as Papa John, but never thought of him as God.  Since God was missing from Heaven I thought Chuck was supposed to be God.  Sorry, you mentioned John and I thought of this. ;)
    Do disagree, I don't want it to end at 8, I could go on for years.  But as good as these guys are, they would land another series quick, I bet.

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  35. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:32

    I'm pretty sure Dean was calling the hunter that gave him the lead. Or maybe Sam, to see how he was doing. As for Cas, he explained he washed up on the shore. And he didn't fear Lucifer before because he didn't have him in his head. AND he didn't have Sam's memories of hell in his head before.

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  36. Ally724 March 2012 at 02:35

    He said John was ''''like''''' God (it was a metaphor since they compared the boys to Luci and Micheal)


    CHuck is the real God (not the metaphor), Rob confirmed it a couple of time already

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  37. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:35

    Yeah I need to rewatch because I'm bleh on this.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:37

    Uh...he just realized Cas was alive...I think he was in shock.  And Cas was the only person with a chance at healing Sam.  How about he was putting his own feelings aside for the moment to help his brother?  If he'd punched Cas in the face or brought back his memories he might not have helped Sam. 

    I don't know what you folks were watching but that was the closest we've come to a kick ass big brotherly Dean in ages and I thought it was awesome!

    As for Cas coming back from the dead, he explained that...he stumbled into the road wet and naked...obviously the Leviathans spit him out for some reason when they took to the water supply.  Who knows why?  This is Supernatural...and just like life, not everything has a nice, pat answer.

    Oh and fearing Lucifer...I'd say there's a big difference when you're confronting him face to face and when he's living in your head.  Hell, even Sam wasn't that afraid of him until after he said yes and let him in.  I can't blame Cas for that particular change in attitude.

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  39. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:38

    Did you really want Sam talking to Lucifer forever? He will still have his memories of hell and that won't be easy but there was no way they could have him function if Lucifer was in his head. Frankly I wouldn't want them to try.  Reading your reviews (no offense intended) I feel like we watched two different episodes. 

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  40. C P24 March 2012 at 02:38

    Cas is terrified of Lucifer. Remember Abandon All Hope in Season 5? Cas was scared when he saw Lucifer, though he did swallow it, cover it up. Lucifer is the strongest angel besides Michael. Cas has a reason to be scared. 

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  41. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:39

    You have a point there. But I think Dean was in Save Sam mode.

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  42. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:41

    I'd say you do need to rewatch.  I don't see how you could feel it was negative regarding Dean.  He did everything he had to to help Sam...that's the Dean I've been wanting to see all season!

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  43. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:41

    I was thrilled to have him healed. I want normal Sam back. 

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  44. Kat24 March 2012 at 02:42

    So I wasn't seeing things...Meg definitely looked puffy. Thought it was my TV at first.

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  45. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:42

    I never heard anyone "confirm" that Chuck was God...it was left ambiguous on purpose.
    And yeah, John was "like" God...the whole absentee father expecting you to just blindly follow his orders thing.

    ReplyDelete
  46. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:43

    Help out someone who didn't like it, please. Am I understanding it right?

    So, Crowley is searcghing for Cas to do whatever, and has his demons out for that. Meg is out to use Cas herself, under guise of protecting him from Crowley? And Sam & Dean are... what? Ok with that? Ignoring it? Moving on?

    Just, ugh. It's like starting another unnecessary storyline in a season that isn't dealing with the one it has. And the ambiguity of it really bothers me, after the Anna storyline, where they learned the danger of leaving angels with demons. I just hated the whole idea.  

    ReplyDelete
  47. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:45

    How was his trauma shown as physical?  Until the last two episodes when he was sleep deprived it was pretty much all in his head.  So much so that everyone was complaining that it wasn't manifesting itself physically enough.   It was definitely emotional...it was in his mind, and now it's in Cas'.   Frankly, you've totally confused me with this whole assessment.   I thought the whole thing was spot on the way they handled it.

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  48. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 02:46

    Meg pretty much admitted she wanted to use Cas's "angel juice" in her own war with Crowley. Or did I misunderstand? She'll protect him, to use him. I see where they need to move on and deal with Leviathan and can't babysit Cas, but trusting Meg is not going to use Cas herself... it's very morally ambiguous to me.

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  49. littlesis1424 March 2012 at 02:47

    Awesome episode. Felt so sorry for Sam. Both Jared and Jensen did a great job. It was a mouth opening episode the whole time. Glad to see Sam better. Can't wait till next week. voted awesome Great job to everyone.

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  50. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:47

    Agreed.  It had to come to an end, especially if Sam and Dean are going to take down the Leviathans.  They can't do that with Sam not functioning.  I was just afraid if they did it this quicky it wouldn't be credible, but it was.

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  51. Bec66624 March 2012 at 02:48

    I think you really, really, really need to rewatch the episode. Crowley wants Castiel because he's an angel and quite possibly the only one that can stop the Leviathans. And Crowley has NO love for them. Meg is most likely looking to make a power play, use Cas to not only stop the Leviathans  but use him to kill Cas too. 

    As for Sam and Dean you lost me. Dean did what he had to do, use Meg to get Cas to Sam. .I don't get what ambiguity you are talking about... you totally lost me there. 

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  52. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:49

    Amen to that...I wanted him healed too!

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  53. Ally724 March 2012 at 02:50

    In a Con, last year I think, Rob said it was more obvious in the first script (wihout cutting/editing) that Chuck was God and in an interview, from the last Con (where he's with Matt and Richard), he talked about Swan Song and said he didn't see understand it before someone came and tell him ''how does it feel to be God?'' and he was like ''...wait what? 0_o''

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  54. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:53

    The demons want the Leviathans stopped.   They believe Cas is the only one who can do it.  But the demons are still having a power struggle amongst themselves, so while they all want the Leviathans taken down, they each want the credit for doing it and the power (as in ego type power) that comes with it.  So Crowley has his minions out searching for Cas and Meg is now at the hospital to prevent Crowley from getting to him.

    The guys can't really do much to help Cas at this point, so they're getting out while the getting is good, but I seriously doubt it will just be the last they do on the subject.  They're still dealing with the Leviathans themselves and they'll regruop and get back on the job.  They just broke Sam out of the loony big after he tussled with Satan and didn't sleep for almost a week...let them come up for air for a sec!

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  55. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:56

    Of course trusting Meg isn't ideal, but at the moment they have no other choice.  They can't exactly trust Crowley.  They're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They're not saints...they're human.  Nobody said they were perfect.

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  56. chris68424 March 2012 at 02:56

    Physical might not be the right word for hallucinations, but what Sam was going through was never emotional.  We saw Sam afraid of the hallucinations, but there was no emotional fallout from the actual memories of being tortured. Once Sam was able to control the hallucinations though a physical act (pressing on his palm), he was fine.   Where was the whole process of emotionally working through what happened to him?  Why doesn't he need therapy?  If you really suffered an emotional trauma, you'd be suffering a whole host of symptoms that wouldn't go away with a simple fix like a trick that helped you distinguish reality from illusion.  That trick might be the first step, but it wouldn't make you better.

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  57. Kat24 March 2012 at 02:56

    It was a solid episode. I actually liked Meg toward the end. Though her endgame is yet to be seen it's great she's taking care of Cas for now...I like them as an odd couple.

    However my heartstopping moment came when Dean was at his end with the journal and calling hunters, goes to get a beer and the address book falls off the table and the business card with the name of the man who could help is underneath. Bobby is still helping his boys...made me tear up.

    Sam is upright and the brothers are back (almost in black...if they would only bring back the Impala) to hunting things. Castiel will be alright. It was nice having Misha back. Liked how Dean wasn't sure of him and had to keep things inside so he could help Sam. There was so much emotion for Dean to portray in such little time I think everyone did well.

    Enjoyed this episode a lot. Missed last week's due to hosting an alcoholic leprechaun  (a.k.a. mother inlaw) but so GLAD I got to see this one live!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 02:58

    I was under the impression that Chuck's ultimate identity was left up to our imaginations...was he God?  Was he a prophet?  It was never made clear...for a reason, I think.  And God has never been represented onscreen...I think the writers couldn't figure out how to represent him, which is why they left the whole Chuck thing in question.  It's actually always bugged me that they never directly represented him.

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  59. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q24 March 2012 at 02:59

     Oh I don't know, I totally saw an emo moment in that last bit of the episode, with Dean and Sam by the car, and dean saying 'mutually agreed upon destruction' or osmething like that.  THought it had a nice ring to it, but I know some are going to be all 'emo Dean gah!'. 

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  60. Kat24 March 2012 at 03:03

    Meg is on the run from Crowley and has always been out for
    herself only so however to accomplish that is what she will do. Crowley wants
    the Leviathans stopped, that's all we know at this point. Demons want to make
    nice to Crowley by bringing him this "person" who might be able to
    fix the mess. Hell is fractured so you have all these various demons fighting
    it out.

    As for Castiel being left with Meg, Misha is coming back for two more episodes
    so just wait and see how that plays out.

    ReplyDelete
  61. KatAdams0324 March 2012 at 03:07

    I'm not sure how I feel about this episode. I really missed Sam and Dean together.

    I thought Jared did a really good job and Mark Pelligrino was wonderful too. Sam seemed so quiet and lost.  And yet, still wanted to help the girl who was helping him! We didn't get a lot on the Sam's Hell story, but Jared definitely brought it for this episode.  I cannot believe this is the same guy who was so excited in interviews for his new family member!  How in the world did he do that? 

    Dean! I have missed you, big brother! I thought Dean was wonderful. I missed watching Dean Winchester killing demons!  We haven't had enough of that this season! And Dean trying to keep Castiel together and be gentle with Castiel's memories.

    Meg was a little odd. I didn't really like her in this episode.  I don't know.  It just felt off.  Maybe because of Jo and Ellen, I just don't want to see anyone working with her other than to kill her.  It just feels off.  

    Castiel was alright. I don't know something seemed lacking. I felt that way a bit in this episode.  Maybe it was the hype or maybe it was because it kept jumping around and then you had a commercial break which slowed it down? Still, Castiel's memories returning were a little much.  I don't know I felt like parts of this episode were sappy about Castiel.  Like it didn't really matter he didn't have his memories, because two seconds later he did.  We didn't see anything about his new life and his wife was hardly memorable.  Why couldn't they of had Jimmy with Castiel dormant inside or something?  At least we know his wife and daughter.   

    I'm ambivalent about Castiel taking Sam's hell. It doesn't make any sense to me.  Nothing about why Castiel was there made sense in this episode to me.  How did Castiel survive? Why? Was it another God resurrection thing? Why didn't he remember anything? Why did he get married to some random woman? I don't understand his comments about Sam's wall. He said it was crushed and in bits.  Didn't he break it, so what was he expecting? What was going on with Sam's wall and Hell?  I don't think we're ever going to get this questions answered. So, that has me confused.  And that's Castiel's redemption?  How am I suppose to feel about that? On one side, I'm glad Castiel got some redemption, but on the other side, I'm like that's it? Shouldn't this be a two-parter? Should there be more for both of them? (Then naturally, I have to read comments elsewhere about Castiel being more valuable right now than Sam and Dean saving the guy who will betray him to the first monster who is nice to him makes no sense and Dean making Castiel do this has no logic.  I thought it was Castiel made this decision on his own?  Did I miss something?  I feel like I missed a lot, but I swear I watched the whole episode! Even all the commercials! I really thought Castiel made the decision to save Sam by taking the memories to try to make things right?  Dean didn't do anything wrong! Dean didn't save the wrong one.  Castiel made up for breaking Sam's wall.  We get to love him again?!  Don't we?) I'm so confused. I feel like I'm in the middle of physiology right now.  It's not a good feeling. :(  
     
    At least that acting was good. But I'm still not sure. That's all we're going to get about Sam's emotional story and Castiel's redemption? Is it? Huh? Please, sir, I want some more with explanation on the side.  This is exactly why I wanted two episodes.  One for Castiel and one for Sam. I hope we get more on this later, but I think they're just going to get drunk.

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  62. ScottA24 March 2012 at 03:11

    I was kind of expecting one of Dean's lectures for Cas. Dean admitted thet all their friends were dead so I guess I just thought it would be a little more intense.

    He didn't show fear when trapped in the holy fire. He holy molotoved Michael and I don't believe he showed fear when he saw Raphael.

    Just my opinion. Kind of off the subject, though:  Why would Lucifer stay in Cas' head? He just liked to screw with Sam.

    Please excuse me if I;m rambling. Got a very nasty back surgery coming Monday. Painkillers are a wonderful thing!

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  63. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:15

    thanks for the answer! I'm glad it's an arc, because this left me cold.

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  64. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:15

    Yes! The Bobby moment was the only thing that made me smile.

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  65. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 03:16

    I know it's super mean to think this while poor Sammy was spiraling, but Lucifer was extra entertaining in this episode.. especially his singing!  It was so sad to see Sam so defeated and ready to accept that he wasn't going to bounce back from this.  And only Sam could find a hunt while on mental lockdown haha.  

    I loved Castiel's return!  I'm a huge fan of both the character and Misha, but I've been really worried about what they were going to make him.  The memory montage was fantastic.  Even before he remembered, I really loved how he was so similar to Castiel in a lot of ways, but so different in others.  His shifty eyes toward Meg in the backseat were hilarious.. and adorable!  

    I wasn't necessarily expecting so much to be resolved in this episode, but it was great!  The return of the trenchcoat warmed my heart.  I'm glad Cass got a chance to face what he did, own up to it, and in the end, take the weight upon himself.. promptly breaking my heart again in the process haha.. but I've got to hand it to the writers - I did NOT see that coming.  

    As a last thought, I thought the balance between the two stories was really good as well.  

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  66. Kat24 March 2012 at 03:16

    Don't worry...Misha is coming back as Castiel for two more episodes at least. We might get more explanation then.

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  67. SuePo24 March 2012 at 03:17

    Despite what was alluded to with Crowley, there's (so far) no proof that it was Crowley who sent the demons after Dean (except for a demon's word). It could all have been staged by Meg to get under Dean's radar. I'm not sure who to believe here. And no ZoeF, you're not alone. I never liked this wall/Lucifer storyline, I think the writers backed themselves into a corner with it because Sam had to get fixed or else he was of little use. So I'm just glad we're past it now. A drunk monster hunt sounds way more fun than all the angst. :)

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  68. Mekina24 March 2012 at 03:19

    The scenes with Sam were so awesome! Mark P is the perfect Lucifer, and it was fantastic to see him again. Jared and Mark have great chemistry, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of Sam in this episode. I was worried he would only have a few minutes worth of time.

    The scenes with Castiel just made me want to be sick, especially when Dean handed over the trenchcoat. The idea of him transferring that mouldy, nasty old thing from trunk to trunk of all the cars he and Sam have used makes me feel even sicker, and the fact that he threw away the amulet but kept that stupid coat makes me angry. I was glad he left Castiel in the mental hospital.

    Overall, Sam and Lucifer's scenes were awesome, Castiel bored me to tears, and Dean didn't make much of an impact on me this episode. Although seeing him kill some demons was pretty awesome, until Meg stepped in to save the day.

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  69. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 03:19

    I'm with you on Castiel - I love him SO much, and I was thrilled to have him back, but the way they dealt with his making amends is really poetic justice.  What better way to understand and (hopefully) make up for what he did than being forced to endure the things that Sam did?  That being said, I hope they don't leave him broken forever... *sniff*

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  70. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:21

    I read she's been sick and the medication caused it. I hope she's well now because I love her. I loved Niki's Meg, but Rachel is excellent too.

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  71. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:24

    You'll convince me yet.

    I was loving the big brother Dean, badass hunter parts alot. Then the end just felt so off the rails, I don't know why. Maybe it was a lack of Dean POV at the end, so I wondered what he was thinking and feeling through all that.

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  72. Sybilla7524 March 2012 at 03:28

    About Sam's wall, i think that back in the S6 finale Cas only scratched the wall but didn't break it completely so he could have fixed it back later. However, what he did made Sam's hell memories come back and later the hallutinations. Now, it seem like the wall was completely shattered with so much time passing and Sam interacting with the hallutinations and he couldn't reconstruct it.

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  73. Ally724 March 2012 at 03:29

    I found the video where Rob pretty much said he talked to Kripke about that and it doesn't seem like Eric told him that he wasn't God or anything


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZOEDMP_w4Y&feature=player_embedded  

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  74. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:29

    You're right, I wouldn't want Sam to suffer and the story wasn't really working the way they did it.

    From the Cas POV it's a great development. But I'll wait and see how they develop Sam's character now. I'll be glad of no more hand wringing. But I hoped from some clever way of healing, while still leaving Mark P some guest visits. Also, does that mean Sam has no more ptsd, the memories, the depth it gave him?

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  75. C P24 March 2012 at 03:33

    The wall when Castiel broke it was like breaking a part of a brick wall, I imagine. But as time went on the wall broke down more, got wider to the point there was just rumble. Cas couldn't piece the bricks back together. So Cas transferred the rumble to himself. 

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  76. KatAdams0324 March 2012 at 03:38

    That makes sense.  I just wished the show had said that earlier or something and it wasn't just guess work. It makes me appreciate shows like "Buffy" and "The Vampire Diaries" when they did episodes explaining what is going on.  I wish "Supernatural" would do that sometimes.

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  77. KatAdams0324 March 2012 at 03:38

    That's what I'm hoping for!

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  78. Ally724 March 2012 at 03:43

    I just have one stupid question:
    Assuming it was Bobby who showed Dean who to call, how did he know which hunter has an encounted with Cass (Or with a healer at least)?

    I mean, spirit are attached to what's keeping them here. For Bobby its either his flask (since he only appear when the flask's near, don't think we saw that flask in the episode, but I guess the flask was a the house with the rest of Bobby stuff) or he's attached to the boys. But neither the boys or the flask got anywhere near the guy who had his meeting with Cass, at least not since Cass's disapeared

    Unless Bobby met that hunter between the premiere and his own death, but why didn't he said anything about that to the boys? :S

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  79. C P24 March 2012 at 03:49

    In less he just showed Dean one contact he'd missed and Bobby was pointing it out to him? And it just happened the guy knew the healer.

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  80. Debbie Combs24 March 2012 at 03:52

     The return of the trench coat was my least favorite part. When I saw that all I could think is "Dean threw away the amulet because Sam had fond memories of some of Dean's worst memories" (probably with a touch of running off with Ruby -- and Kripke trying to save Jensen's teeth), but "Dean keeps the coat through how many car changes and presents it to Castiel after Castiel broke his brother's wall" (with a touch of meglomania and a huge murder spree)...

    The rest of the episode was better than I expected, but I was also disappointed in the quick fix. I so, so, so wanted Sam and Dean to help each other heal. I wanted Castiel to get Sam back on his feet, but I want to have more warehouse scenes like in 7x02... Warehouse Scene! Now!

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  81. Ally724 March 2012 at 03:55

    I guess it's possible, thanks :)

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  82. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 03:57

    Very good point!

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  83. Debbie Combs24 March 2012 at 04:06

     I just said the same thing about the trench coat a minute ago. We were probably typing at the same time. :-)

    Still, the episode was better than I expected. Of course, I wasn't expecting too much. I really wanted to see more Sam & Dean time. This was our first Sam in the Hospital scene and we didn't get much interaction between Sam & Dean. Of course, Sam was too tired to really converse.

    Besides the obvious references to Faith, this episode also reminds me of Free to be You and Me because of the pairings. We had very little brotherly interaction and we had Sam and Lucifer with a touch of an unknown, probably never to be seen again, girl and Dean and Castiel; however instead of Raphael we get Meg.

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  84. Debbie Combs24 March 2012 at 04:09

     I agree with the "why would he see Lucifer" comment. For one thing, I thought Sam's hellucinations were because of his soul being shredded and abused on top of the memories. Castiel doesn't have a soul. So did he shift Sam's memories and just get a constant Lucifer download?

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  85. brunna24 March 2012 at 04:11

    AMAZING. 

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  86. Kerinda Hartson24 March 2012 at 04:20

    HOLY SHIT! WOW my mind got blow on this one guys, no words can say how this ep went but you guys have alot of word so go at it but for me it just WOW and Cas I forgive you thats all.

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  87. Kerinda Hartson24 March 2012 at 04:28

    sara I was like you I said I will never forgive Cass for what he did to sam but damn it look what happen here I was thinking cas would have taken sam's soul again but he did not he did something that really made me like WOW that is forgiving and I know you are still mad but hey someone told me it just a tv right? and a damn great one at that.

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  88. Emily24 March 2012 at 04:42

    I voted great and not awesome only because I know what this show is capable of.  It was great and all for obvious reasons.  Finally big bro Dean returned.  I missed that side of him.  The only reason this episode did hit it out of the park is because it lacked that one scene that we all love, the brotherly moment.  It was kind of there, but I'm really hoping for them to actually talk about everything.  At the beginning of this season, hell even last season, my dream was to have a scene where Dean compared his time in hell to Sam's.  I want Sam to talk about how difficult it WAS rather than just physical side effects. Bottom line WE WANT EMOTIONAL TALKS.  Thank you. P.S. the return of the amulet would be nice too.

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  89. Kerinda Hartson24 March 2012 at 04:49

    well on the 1st part jared is one hell of a great actor and this just awesome so talented and DAMN IT NEEDS TO DO MORE COME ON! all of them are good but know and bring out my crying and screaming and being happy more then jared he is that good.

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  90. ShatteredOne24 March 2012 at 04:59

    Holy crap!  An episode of Supernatural I enjoyed in...well since Death's Door (well enjoyed that is the wrong word there, I loved it but it was heartbreakingly sad). 

    Every episode that has featured Mark Pellegrino I've enjoyed (the one before this was probably the weakest of the 4) and it sucks that we won't get to see him.  I was going to be really pissed if they simply put that wall back up in Sam's head, then Cas couldn't and I was happy cause I feel like it was the best storyline of the season and we didn't see enough of it.  Now, Cas has the crazy and...well that was definitely my least favorite part of the episode.  Yes, yes, sacrificed his own sanity, that's all nice but I liked that dynamic for Sam.

    Meg was cool, curious how she'll use/protect Cas.  I think she kind of has a soft spot for him but definitely wants to use him for her own gain.

    All in all, Awesome episode (first time I've voted that since Death's Door, and only 4th time this season), hopefully it can keep this up.

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  91. brianna armstrong24 March 2012 at 05:19

    i absolutely loved everything about this episode!!!! when i saw that dean kept cas' trenchcoat...i almost died! and i loved seeing hospitalized sammy...his face broke my heart! overall..terrific episode :)

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  92. Wilson Crawford24 March 2012 at 05:35

    That episode was handled VERY well. It had just enough going for it that it didn't feel cheap at all that we ended up with Full Castiel at the end of the episode, and somehow Sammy is better without it being a crappy way to handle it (as in, Cas just took on the Devil so that Sam can rest!)

    I am impressed.

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  93. Abhishek Bilkan Aind24 March 2012 at 05:38

    After today's episode, I've a feeling that Bobby' sentience has been promoted to something heavenly... like guardian angel or something... (*_*) becoz as per SPN universe any lingering essence of human soul becomes something fallen and eventually demons and I would be damned if in future they need to fight a Bobby Ghost. BTW Awesome episode... I was having a weird recall mechanism watching the whole episode. I mean I've read each kind of fan-fiction and I saw almost every aspects of it fulfilled. Broken Sam, Emo/Calm Dean, Frightened/Guilty Castiel and whatnot. I'm happy that brothers 'analogy in anthology' is still very much alive. Yo SPN \m/

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  94. ravenclawwit24 March 2012 at 05:56

    Dean and Sam are really really busy right now. They have this little thing going on with the Leviathans. Meanwhile, Crowley's demons are hunting for Cas. And Cas, now beset by Lucifer, is helpless right now. Dean and Sam can't take him with them because they wouldn't be able to protect him from demons while fighting off the Leviathans. So the safest alternative both for them and Cas is to leave him there with Meg to watch over him. I think Dean is quite aware that she has her own agenda, but there simply aren't any other good options. It's not like they can leave him with Bobby.

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  95. C P24 March 2012 at 06:00

    I gave up on the amulet a while back. 

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  96. Rachel Scott24 March 2012 at 06:00

    i did like this episode very much, but I am kinda upset by the way that sam's storyline with lucifer ended. i guess i just thought it would be more dramatic (don't know if that is really the word i mean)
     

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  97. C P24 March 2012 at 06:22

    Well technically Lucifer is supposed to be a figment of imagination. He wasn't actually talking to Sam from the cage. That's what the writers have said. So he'd have no say as to which head to be in. 

    When Castiel was in the ring of fire in 5x10 I could see nervousness when he realization Lucifer was in the room. There was some brave face in the scene too though. I could see he didn't want Lucifer thinking he was intimidating him. 

    And when he molotoved Michael I'm pretty sure that was a move he didn't think about/did not have time to fear. He just did it. His confrontation with Raphael in 5x03 was more defiant, I believe he was putting on face. When Dean said it was Castiel's idea to trap Raphael Cas gave Dean something like a WTH face. He didn't want Raphael more angry but then he got brave and smart mouthed Raphael on the way out of the house. XD 

    Cas doesn't have a lot of obvious expressions and they can be interpreted in different ways, so it's tough, even for me, even though I spend time watching the actors facial expressions. 

    But I firmly believe Cas has always on some level been scared of Lucifer. I don't know who wouldn't be intimidated by him, knowing who/what he is.

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  98. ScottA24 March 2012 at 06:25

    I don't know. I just think Lucifer would say "What am I doing in here?" and then boogie off somewhere else.

    And where's Michael in all this?  He was in the cage with them.I can't see him sitting this one out.

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  99. ravenclawwit24 March 2012 at 06:36

    Oh gosh I have so many feelings I don't even know where to start. I thought it was wonderful episode, though bittersweet in many ways.

    First, Castiel. I have missed this character so much. I loved that even though he didn't remember who he was at first, he was really still Cas. The mannerisms and his little line about not knowing how to ride a bicycle. I also loved the scene where he remembered. Very neat. I like that they did provide a way for him to redeem himself. It was a great sacrifice, but needed. It was very Castiel like. His scenes with Dean were amazing, every one. There was so much going on there, it was fascinating to watch. Dean was obviously feeling a lot of mixed emotions over it. I think he was glad to see Cas again, but he also still has a lot of anger and hurt over how things ended up between them and what Cas did to Sam. But it seemed like he was well on his way to forgiving Cas by the end. The scene with the trenchcoat was awesome, but I'm a little bummed that the line from the promo, "Part of me knew you'd come back" got cut. Jim Michaels said on twitter that it got cut because the ep ran long so they gave it to promo instead. But still, great scene. I think it shows that deep down, Dean does want to forgive Castiel and have his friend back. I don't know if he's quite done it yet, but I think it'll come in time.

    About Daphne. That was odd. I actually expected her to feature more heavily, but it seems like we're done with her now. Castiel has remembered who he truly is so he's not really Emmanuel anymore. I kind of got the feeling that she was just another poor sucker conscripted by God or whatever holy entity has decided that Castiel shouldn't die. Kind of like Jimmy really. Especially when Emmanuel!Cas said that she thought God had told her to find him. It made me feel really sorry for her.

    Ok now Sam. I was very pleased with the balance we got between the Castiel and Dean scenes and Sam's scenes. I thought it was a very good balance. That whole beginning with Sam running around hallucinating and suffering just about broke my heart, especially when he actually bought drugs from that dealer in an attempt to gain some peace. That shows how desperate he must have been. Also, the way that Sam helped that girl in the hospital, even when he was being tormented and he was dying? I found that really really moving. It was so beautiful, so quintessentially Sam. Jared did an amazing job. I also liked the girl (Marin?), and I know it probably won't happen, but it'd be cool if we saw her again. Sam needs people too!

    Meg was kind of eh for me. I've never been a fan of Rachel Miner's take on Meg, and she seemed even more strange this time. Although I just learned that she's ill, so maybe that's why? Her being there seemed fairly pointless other than annoying Dean, even though I understand plot wise why she was necessary.

    All in all a very worthy ep. Definitely for me, the best one this season.

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  100. Wilson Crawford24 March 2012 at 06:50

    I noticed that as well, but hey, I say the more the merrier, because I'd rather see her a little more filled out than a stick figure... *coughLoriGrimescough*

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  101. pinkphoenix198524 March 2012 at 07:05

    Well the episode went exactly how I expected. No surprises at all...
    I thought that all in all it was a good episode, even great for S7. 

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  102. KatHale24 March 2012 at 09:20

    I haven't read the comments yet,but for me the episode was very well handled.The balance between Sam in the mental hospital and Dean with Cas was perfect!

    I was very pleasantly surprised with Sam's mini hunt in the hospital and I wonder if we'll see the girl(can't remember her name right now) again.
    I was also surprised that Daphne,Cas' "wife",didn't end up possessed,dead,or possessed and then dead.Thinking about it,I think we've seen the last of her.Seems like her only purpose was to find Cas..Although,I won't be surprised if later on it turns out that she's an angel or something.

    While I'm glad that Sam is okay,I'll miss his one sided conversations with Lucifer.Jared and Mark were amazing,as always.And as for Sam,I think he just got rid of the heavy hallucinations..Like Dean he'll always remember Hell,which I like cause it makes the brothers understand each other even better.

    I'm not gonna comment on Dean's interaction with Cas because I think it is too soon.I'm not saying I didn't love their scenes,because trust me,I did.I just think that they just scratched the surface of their problems.Despite Dean's initial shock,they didn't have time to go any deeper with Cas spending most of the time without his memories,Dean wanting to get to Sam as fast as possible and Meg lurking around.Speaking of,it was fun to see her..Her motives remain to be seen though..

    I loved the ending,mostly because I didn't see it coming.First of all,I didn't expect Cas to remember much of anything in this episode.Also,my theory was that he was gonna help Sam by giving up his powers or something similar.I did not expect for him to tale Sam's hallucinations..!
    I really want Cas to have some interaction with Lucifer,but I'm wondering if these memories will trigger some of Cas' ghosts to appear,like Balthazar(wishful thinking) or Rachel..Also,at some point Crowley or the Leviathans will find out that he's alive,because this is Supernatural,and then things will get really interesting!

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  103. Nikita Ahn24 March 2012 at 09:27

    Exactly.  PTSD and other trauma-related ailments cannot be managed through simply minimizing symptoms - you have to get to the root of the trauma and work through the serious emotional aspects of what you went through to cause the trauma in the first place.  Having Sam use pain and jogging as a means of treating PTSD and psychosis is very unrealistic (and yes, I know this is Supernatural - home of unrealistic, but the boys are still humans so there should be SOME psychological realism).  Like you said, they never delved into the emotion of his experiences - Dean got to cry and feel shame and guilt over torturing souls, but when Sam said "this is what happens when you toss a soul in Lucifer's dog bowl" it was very matter-of-fact, almost emotionless.  They made his madness seem like an outside factor rather than something his own mind was creating - an enemy to combat rather than a symptom of great trauma and pain.  We still don't have any idea what actually took place in the cage and we never got to actually see Sam in hell, not even for a few seconds like Dean.  We never see him cry or really break down emotionally - this ep at least had some of Sam driven to the limits of his physical endurance and some stress/desperation, but it still wasn't EMOTIONAL in the truest sense.  we got more emotion over him shooting Madison than we did about him spending a century in the worst part of hell, and that's pretty telling.  

    As someone who has had PTSD most of her life and who now works in mental health, I'm really bothered by how poorly they portrayed/addressed Sam's trauma.  

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  104. prpleight24 March 2012 at 10:26

    Another ep that gave Jared a chance to shine.  Lucifer's torture methods were pretty effective.  Would have driven me nuts.  And he got to exorcise a ghost. :-)  I really liked Cass' exit. It was especially nice since I was really dubious about the need to bring him back.  Do you think Meg's gonna be able to resist messing with Cass every now and then?

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  105. Sybilla7524 March 2012 at 10:27

    I'm hoping for a Balthazar appearance in Cas' head too! i think it would make sense given Cas' state of mind and those Lucifer hallutinations loving to torture the mind they're in that Cas will be plagued by all the stuff he feels guilty about, which would be a great way to explore that Cas is not the unfeeling being some people love to make him out to be and it would work as a fitting "punishment" if he's forced to deal with the memories of what he did in a vivid way. And imo Balthazar should be #1 on that list of things to deal with.

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  106. KatHale24 March 2012 at 10:46

    Okay,I just rewatched it..Interesting fact:The moment Cas remembers everything,the deep voice comes running back!  : )

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  107. Neon Jedi24 March 2012 at 10:47

    Awesome would be an understatement. I loved it.

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  108. chris68424 March 2012 at 11:56

    To add to what I wrote earlier, Sam's trauma has been portrayed as something physical, like a defect or a disease, since the start of season 6.  At first he was missing his soul, like someone else might be missing a kidney.  It was physical - something Dean could fix by finding someone who could get his soul back.  Then when his soul was returned, we found out it had an appearance and a texture. It was bright, could be carried in a bag, and Cas said Sam's soul/trauma felt like it had been skinned alive.  Sam's trauma could be managed by Death building a physical wall in his mind - a wall that Cas again alluded to in a physical sense in this past episode.

    And then this season, as I said in the last post, Sam's only symptom was hallucinations.  I'm not in the mental health field, but I tend to think of hallucinations as often having a physical cause like a chemical imbalance, and being able to be managed by drugs.

    All this would have been more OK if they had also covered what this meant to Sam, the person.  How did this trauma affect the way Sam thought of himself?  How about his soullness - did he take away any lessons from it?  What does Sam dream about now for a future?  How has this whole experience affected what he thinks about his future?  Since the start of season 6, Sam has been reduced to an object of Dean's that Dean needs to fix - on a similar level as the Impala.  The Impala is untarped when Dean first learns that Sam is back from Hell.  When Cas crashes Sam's wall, the Impala crashes.  Dean doesn't know how to fix Sam in the season premiere, so he fixes Impala instead.  Maybe now that Sam's trauma issue is fixed rather than being pushed down and off to the side, we'll see the Impala poke its head out again.

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  109. rehabber24 March 2012 at 12:00

    I also wanted Sam healed, but Jared is so good playing crazy, I would have liked to see a little more of it.  The ending was kind of flat to me, Sam had not slept in several days and then poof he was up and working.  But I loved the ep and called it awesome.

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  110. rehabber24 March 2012 at 12:05

    Well Cas did have me in tears but not bored. ;)  I also thought about the amulet when Dean brought out the coat, but still brought tears to my eyes, what can I say, I'm a sucker for Cas and Dean scenes.

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  111. rehabber24 March 2012 at 12:22

    I like the way you think, I am all for getting Baby back. lol

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  112. chris68424 March 2012 at 12:27

    Like you said, it's Supernatural, and I don't really have high expectations that Supernatural would take something this intense and portray it realistically, but they've moved so far from writing Sam as human that I'm not sure what to think.   Should I assume that one of the theories - about this not being real - is true?  Is Sam still in the cage with Lucifer, and the reason Sam doesn't seem human anymore is because he only exists in Dean's mind?  If they go this route, I'm not going to be happy.   Were Dean's emotions for Bobby more intense because Bobby was real, but Sam and Cas are not?

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  113. Tee Tag24 March 2012 at 12:38

    I agree 100%. I was so pissed when he pulled that stupid trench coat out. 

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  114. Debbie Combs24 March 2012 at 12:40

    It reminds me a bit of Sam's reactions in Yellow Fever (without the humor. Sam gets into a fix it or else mood and didn't show a lot of concern. Most of his concern he showed to Bobby.

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  115. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 12:48

    I was also disappointed in the quick fix, as were a lot of people, I think.  I was very resistant to the idea of Castiel coming in, putting two fingers to Sam's forehead, and magically making everything better.  They really threw me off with Cass taking everything into himself, though - that's what made it almost okay for me.  It wasn't "poof, Lucifer's gone!", and someone's still suffering.  I still wish they would have shown a better progression of Sam's crazy, so it wouldn't feel as rushed, but in the end I guess I was pretty happy.  

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  116. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 12:50

    I'm holding out hope that Lucifer's not gone, though I don't know if Mark Pellegrino is slated to be in anymore episodes - I figure Castiel has two more episodes to go, and since he took all the crazy into his head, Lucifer's going to be partying it up in there.  Maybe we'll see him again!

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  117. JMC0024 March 2012 at 12:52

    Misha Collins said he was in 2 (or 3, not sure if he meant 3 more after this one or 3 episodes including this one) more episodes. So I expect one of them will focus on him figuring out how to deal with or beat the hallucinations. Then the other would probably be the finale where he'll help Dean & Sam take care of the Leviathans, finishing his redemption arc.  And also maybe bringing back Bobby. I mean it has been established with Adam and Samuel. I know Samuel is debatable but I'm sure he had some instruction to one of the other Campbell's to burn his body. 

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  118. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 12:53

    I noticed that, too... and poor Misha was probably so excited to talk like a normal person for a great deal of the episode, too haha!  :)  

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  119. Debbie Combs24 March 2012 at 12:57

    It would make me happier with the ending if it gave us a reason to see Balthazar again.

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  120. Bec66624 March 2012 at 13:06

    How do you know they just erased all of Sam's storyline? The season isn't over with and he still has the memories of hell, just not Lucifer yelling in his head. Frankly I don't care if they don't bring Hell up again. I'd much rather they focus on Sam AND Dean, together as brothers again. Fighting together and laughing together. 

    I miss the amulet too but the trench coat scene didn't bother me at all. It was two totally different instances. Dean tossed the amulet because he had lost faith in God and his brother. He kept the Trench coat because even after everything Cas had done he still tried to fix things before the Leviathans took him over. I'm pretty sure if Dean could have gone back and gotten the Amulet he would have. Perhaps keeping the trench coat was his way of not making the same mistake twice. 

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  121. Tracy Knight24 March 2012 at 13:29

    The episode was solid with wonderful performances by Jared and Jensen.  Misha was great as well.  My main complaint comes at the end of the eppy.  Not the Cas storyline, but how things were too quickly resolved in the last 5 minutes. 

    This ep would have been better served as a 2 parter and the writers missed on a great opportunity for a brother moment between the time Cas took on Lucifer and before Sam left the hospital. 

    I had expected at least one good brother moment in this one, but it severly lacked in that, despite having and easy set up for it.  There almost seemed to be a bit of disconnect there between them.

    The 2 storylines worked well and Jared esp knocked it out of the park.  Mark P may have stolen the show though.  He was just awesome and hilarious at the same time.  Who knew the Devil could be so much fun?  LOL!

    Anyway, a solid ep, but the ending which lacked a good Sam-Dean moment (in an ep that was begging for one) knocked it down a notch for me.

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  122. rehabber24 March 2012 at 13:43

    I like this theory, I was not upset about the coat, but it did remind me of the amulet and I am still hoping that Sam pulled it out of that trash can, so not making the same mistake twice, works for me.

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  123. Mekina24 March 2012 at 13:47

    I think we must have been! :D

    It is better than I expected, I agree. I enjoyed everything but seeing Castiel. Sam's scenes, and seeing Lucifer, were so awesome. But I also have to agree, there was nowhere near enough Sam and Dean time, and it would have been nice to see a little more concern from Dean.

    It was good, but not the most amazing episode ever. That title still goes to Mystery Spot. I don't even think this ep is in my all time top ten, but it wasn't horrible. 

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  124. Mekina24 March 2012 at 13:48

    It made be absolutely furious. I figured something like that was going to happen, but it didn't make it any better. If I ever rewatch the episode, I'm definitely skipping that scene.

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  125. Watched27times!24 March 2012 at 14:04

    I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED, this episode!

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  126. chris68424 March 2012 at 14:12

    I just rewatched the episode.  I liked it the first time, but liked it even more the second.  I agree with comments that it could have been spread out over two episodes, but it worked as one too.  It felt like there was a lot packed in there, but that that's not necessarily a bad thing.   If there was more time, I would have liked to have seen more reaction from Dean.  Considering this whole season has been about losing everything, and Sam was the last domino to fall, I would have expected at least a few moments of despair when he realized that Sam was going down and there was no one left to help him.

    I really liked the interactions between Sam and Meredith and wouldn't mind seeing her again.  They had nice chemistry, and I think Sam could use a friend who also knows what it's like to be broken/crazy, and who is aware of the supernatural world.

    I loved it when Cas's gravelly voice returned.  I missed that. I hope the trench coat goes to a dry cleaner if it's going to show up again.

     Lucifer was awesome, as always.

    I like that it looks like Crowley and Meg will be more involved in the Leviathan fight moving forward.  I've found the Leviathans boring, but getting the demons and Cas involved might give the storyline the spark it needs.

    Someone else may have mentioned this earlier (was looking for the comment but couldn't find it), but I was wondering if what happened with Meredith's ghost brother was meant as foreshadowing to what will happen with Bobby.  At first Meredith missed her brother and welcomed his presence, but he started changing and became a threat.

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  127. Jimi Sturges24 March 2012 at 14:22

    Was awesome was hopping Cas would be an angel but now he is crazy lol

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  128. keithfan24 March 2012 at 14:28

    I thought it was one of the best episodes ever! Yes, we finally got to see a hospitalized Sam and we got Cas back (if only for a little while). In order for Cass to apologize to Sam and Dean for what he did to them-the ultimate betrayal-he gave up his sanity so that Sam could have his back. My only question is, will Sam be normal from now on? I read somewhere that this could on longer, but seeing the awesome previews for next week, it seems we are back to monsters once again (but one of the guys has to be drunk to actually see it and kill it, if I am correct on that one). I wish the episode could have gone on just a little bit longer to see if Sam just passed out once he got into the car and he and Dean were on their way back to where ever they were staying.
    I hope no one was disappointed last night because I sure was not. From the beginning to the end it kept me going. This season is one of the best ever and I sure hope we get some good news soon about another season pickup!

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  129. sharonally24 March 2012 at 14:32

    They stopped writing Sam has a human since season 4.The writers give Sam what they think is the easiest for them not what he has a character actually needs.The writers dont see Sam has a person thats obvious which is why the way they dealt with this even more heartbreaking .

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  130. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 14:41

    Balthazar returning (as a hallucination) would be FANTASTIC.  That's something at the top of the list of things that Castiel has to atone for, and it's not something the Winchesters can absolve him of.  I'd love to see him struggle with that memory, since Sam and Dean weren't the only casualties of his power trip.  Bobby would be a cool person to see, too - he'd smack some sense into the idgit!  

    I'm also holding out hope for some Crowley - it wouldn't be unheard of for Meg's boss to pop up for a visit!  And I'm sure Crowley will want to revel in Castiel's crazy.  

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  131. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 14:44

    The ending DID feel a bit rushed.. and you'd think Sam and Dean would have a bit more of a moment after Sam got released from the crazies.  I also thought the beginning could have been developed more.. what the heck led to Sam wandering around in the scary part of town in the middle of the night?  Where was Dean?  I'm pretty sure Sam couldn't have left quietly... it was kind of strange to just pick up in the middle of something like that, especially since he wasn't doing THAT badly last time we saw him.   

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  132. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 14:49

    Lots of people were disappointed, but I don't think many of the complaints were about the episode as a whole.  People didn't tend to like the "quick fix" of Sam's recovery, for one.  I'm in that camp, too, but Castiel taking all of the crazy into himself kind of redeemed it a bit.  At least the hallucinations didn't just magically go "poof!", leaving everyone happy and friends again.  

    I've noticed people were super angry about the return of the trenchcoat, too - Dean threw away the amulet that Sam gave him in Season.... 5?  And that had a longer history attached to it, so people were angry that Dean actually carried around that trenchcoat for as long as he did after Cass tore Sam's wall down.  I get that, but I was just so happy to see that piece of Castiel was still there!   It gave me warm fuzzies to see him put it back on.  

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  133. chris68424 March 2012 at 14:50

    I don't know, I liked season 4 and parts of season 5.  Sam's storyline wasn't perfect, but I felt like they were still trying to show his internal struggle.  This is different.  They're not even trying anymore.

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  134. Laurie Edwards24 March 2012 at 15:03

    What's her weight got to do with anything? Jeez.

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  135. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 15:50

     Wow, I love you justify Castiel's act of whatever he did for Sam. And Castiel didn't throw him in the pit? Seriously? I can't stand you people who blame Sam because he threw himself into the pit. If it weren't for Sam throwing himself into the pit, your precious Castiel wouldn't even exist. If Castiel hadn't broken the wall, there is nothing suggesting at all that Sam would be in the state he was and could still be in. Jared described this as putting on a brace and getting back on the field. I doubt we've seen the last of Sam's Hell trauma. There's a difference between memories and hallucinations. Sure, Cas may be on the path to redemption by taking Sam's hallucinations into himself, but instant forgiveness? Yeah, far from it.

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  136. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 15:53

     It's disappointing, but if Lucifer hadn't gone away, Sam was going to die. Sam was already dying. You saw his nails were starting to deteriorate and fall out. His organs were going to start shutting down. Sam took drugs and medications and everything. Lucifer still kept him awake even on all those medications. He just was not allowed to sleep. Cas took the hallucinations, yes, but he didn't take the memories. Sam is still damaged goods and is most likely going to suffer with that PTSD for the rest of his life, so no it really doesn't because if it had gone on any longer, Sam would be dead.

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  137. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 15:55

     Show more emotion over seeing Cas? He's pissed at Cas. Cas broke Sam, so why the hell would he show more emotion over Cas being back? Dean hasn't forgiven him and Dean doesn't trust him, that much is clear, regardless of what Cas did in the end. Sam almost died because of Cas.

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  138. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 15:57

     Personally I thought it was kind of nice to have a lack of Dean PoV for once. We're constantly getting it shoved in our faces. It was nice to see more Sam PoV in this instance.

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  139. isleofskye24 March 2012 at 16:01

    I'm curious to see if Misha Collins' return has boosted SPN's ratings.
    That would be the only reason I would be happy with Castiel's unfortunate rebirth.


     

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  140. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 16:04

     I actually really don't think we're past it. Jared described it as putting on a brace and getting back on the field. A brace is temporary fix. It doesn't heal you completely. There's also a difference between hallucinations and memories.

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  141. chris68424 March 2012 at 16:05

    If it's a low night for ratings overall, as appears may be the case based on Fringe, then it will be impossible to tell.  The only way you could really tell is if all other things stayed equal, and that's never the case.

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  142. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 16:06

     Save Jensen's teeth? LOL It was Jensen who kept forgetting to switch the original out with the rubber one, which they did have. Just sayin'! ;P I'm pissed about the trench coat, but yet the amulet can't come full circle? Really writers? That's pretty 'effin cruel.

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  143. isleofskye24 March 2012 at 16:16

    Not necessarily.
    If there was all this acclamation for Collins' return then all his fans should have been tuned in in mass and so pushed the ratings up, or if it is a bad night for ratings, at least have kept them on a level with last week.

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  144. numer0six24 March 2012 at 16:17

     I agree with everything you said.

    Cas sacrfied himself once more for the boys.
    Cas choose to be a healer.  He didn't remember being an angel, so he  didn't do it because god commanded it. He choose to help people all by himself.
    that say a lot about him. Despite what he said (I'm not here to perch on your shoulder), he is a guardian angel, a protector. And unlike some of his brothers, he love humanity.

    Cas is a high-minded, unselfish character.

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  145. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:22

    Over time, the wall would have broken itself without Castiel's interference.  Death even mentioned that as Sam already started to "scratch" at the very same episode when he woke up after taking back his soul.  That suggests, to me, that yes, the wall would have still crumbled down eventually, but obviously not as fast as when Castiel broke it.

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  146. chris68424 March 2012 at 16:22

    But how can you know what the ratings would have been tonight if this had just been another filler without anything special?  Without knowing that you can't judge whether Cas pushed the ratings up or not. Maybe the show would have dropped three points but only dropped one instead?  I'm not saying Cas had an impact on the ratings.  I'm just saying without a controlled environment, it's impossible to tell.

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  147. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 16:24

     I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with that logic. People try and justify Cas's actions by saying the wall would have eventually crumbled? As soon as Dean told Sam to stop scratching it, he did and there were no problems until Castiel took the whole damn thing down himself. 75% chance at the wall staying is up better than a 25% of it crashing. Just sayin'. It could've been years upon years before it came down completely and if it had started coming down, at least Sam would've been getting glimpses bit by bit instead of having Lucifer in his head almost instantly.

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  148. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:26

    The season isn't over yet, so I would just say....don't think you know that all the hallucinations are gone just because of what Castiel did.  Castiel took away the hallucinations as it seemed, but he didn't take away Sam's soul which was still destroyed in Hell.  There WILL still be something that will affect Sam, but it won't be Lucifer keeping him up, though.

    And how is it an assassination of Dean?  He said at the very end that Meg is not a friend and all their actual friends are dead, so it's not as mutual as he would like it, but Meg is their only hope in watching over Castiel especially if Crowley is looking for Cas.

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  149. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:29

    It can always change in canon on the form of the series itself.  I mean, they tried to make Ruby's knife a creation from Samuel Colt but that reference was cut out of "Frontierland" so it's not canon anymore, so Chuck could  definitely have just been a prophet.  It's all a mystery until we hear it/see it on Supernatural.

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  150. isleofskye24 March 2012 at 16:33

    The control comes from Nikita, which has held steady and maybe has even got better ratings than usual.
    0.5 Nikita 1,56
    0.6 SPN   1,57

    They should never have brought Collins back.
    His arc was finished just like all the other angels'.

    The money they had to spend paying his wages could have been put to better use for more rock music, or towards better special effects.

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  151. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:33

    Why should the amulet come full circle?  The trench coat made sense, the amulet does not.  Season five was a de-construction of Dean with taking away his amulet, his ring, his jacket, all said be Jensen and Kripke himself that that was the plan for Dean and it happened.  There is no reason to bring those elements back when they were trying to get rid of them in the first place.

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  152. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:34

    Why should the amulet come full circle?  The trench coat made sense, the amulet does not.  Season five was a de-construction of Dean with taking away his amulet, his ring, his jacket, all said be Jensen and Kripke himself that that was the plan for Dean and it happened.  There is no reason to bring those elements back when they were trying to get rid of them in the first place.

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  153. Thomas24 March 2012 at 16:37

    Hey, my logic still sticks.  You just said the wall would've crumbled down as well and that's all I am saying.  It was still memories of Hell behind that wall and over time it would have just crumbled down, perhaps not into dust as it was now as Castiel suggested, but through time those memories would have flooded Sam's mind.  Maybe in twenty years, but it would have still happened.  To think such a thing would've and it was all because of Castiel's doing isn't thinking of the whole picture.

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  154. numer0six24 March 2012 at 16:41

    Having just read SammyWsGirl reply to your comment, I would want to add that unlike her, I don't see anything in your comment about blaming Sam.
    Did I misinterpret your post, or am I right?

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  155. chris68424 March 2012 at 16:49

    But Fringe has been getting a 1.1 or 1.2 for new episodes, and it dropped to .9.  Fringe has been kicking ass in terms of producing good shows, and it's in the same time slot as SPN, so who is to say that Fringe wouldn't make a better control variable?

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  156. numer0six24 March 2012 at 16:52

    Good may be on the side of Cas, but he is a  "tough love father" :-D
    He broke Cas heart in "dark side of the moon", and he didn't answered either when Cas was begging for some advise in "the man that would be king"
    Poor Cas, he cannot have a break.

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  157. isleofskye24 March 2012 at 16:55

    Because SNP and NIkita are both on the unfortunate CW and their parallel journey can be confronted better than that between a CW show and a Fox show.

    Then this episode  with the  return of Collins has been hyped all over the sites for weeks, and so any one interested would have known to tune in.
    Nikita which aired a normal episode performed within its usual parameters.

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  158. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 16:57

    I read somewhere that she's been sick and it's a side effect of the meds she's on. It must be hard when you're an actress constantly in the public eye.

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  159. Bec66624 March 2012 at 17:03

    I don't get the trenchcoat anger either. It was a totally different set of circumstances than the Amulet. 

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  160. ZoeF24 March 2012 at 17:05

    I like how you put this. It helps clear my mind. I feel some of the story got left out in editing (at least that's what I read.) So maybe the rushed end isn't deliberate. I'm still struggling with it.

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  161. chris68424 March 2012 at 17:16

     What does the network have to do with whether there was an overall temporary dip in ratings?  I'll repeat what I initially said - you can't tell for certain whether one factor affected ratings because there are too many variables.  

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  162. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 17:25

    I don't know much about ratings, and I wasn't sure where to jump into this discussion, but from what I've heard, it might be hard to get a good read on last night's shows based on the huge Hunger Games premiere.. just a thought. 

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  163. numer0six24 March 2012 at 17:25

     "Why do I feel like Dean's character was assassinated?"

    I haven't the slightest idea. I don't see it at all, maybe you could try to express and develop that POV? It would be interesting.

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  164. numer0six24 March 2012 at 17:33

     Agree that Dean did a logical choice, but I'm not sure Meg is there to protect Cas. I think she want to use him for her own agenda.
    Cas has his angels power again. I don't think he need protection. Demons won't try anything against him now.

    My concern is how is about Cas hosting the devil.
    Dean couldn't do anything to help Sam and apparently, there are no others angels left.
    Who's gonna heal the healer?

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  165. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 17:40

    You didn't misinterpret it.  Nobody was blaming Sam, just pointing out that jumping in the pit was his choice...a selfless, very human choice, but his nonetheless and not Cas'.   At least that's how I saw it.

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  166. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 17:41

    How do you know he didn't answer?   Sometimes, no matter how much we'd like it otherwise, the answer is no.

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  167. CyanaT24 March 2012 at 17:47

    Per TVBTN. several's tenths more A18-49 watched this Friday than last Friday, so per Robert Seidman (TVBTN) blaming "The Hunger Games" is just "fan excuse bingo". Fringe was a series low, too, and I've read differing opinions on that episode - some thought it was great, others thought it was the most boring, or close to, episode of this Fringe season. 

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  168. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 17:49

    I had to rewatch that last exchange between Sam and Dean because I felt I missed something and I did...Dean said Cas was better off staying in the hospital because he and Sam are on the top of the Leviathans most wanted list so they couldn't keep Cas safe if he was with them.
    So despite all the obvious issues he's still got with Cas, Dean was still looking out for him when they left.  He wasn't just blindly trusting Meg...last thing he'd do...but he was doing what he felt was the best thing.  If that's character assasination, then I'm the first female Pope. :p :D

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  169. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 17:49

    Oh, okay - good to know!

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  170. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 17:51

    Bingo...Lucifer is NOT actually Lucifer.  He's a figment of Sam's imagination.  He has not control of who's head he's currently in. 

    And I do wonder why Sam wasn't conjuring up Michael too since he would obviously have been in the cage and been pissed too, but who knows?

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  171. numer0six24 March 2012 at 17:55

     Evidently Zoef watched the episode, otherwise she wouldn't be here making comment about it :-)

    What I find interesting is the fact that Cas being able to took Hallucifer in his own head mean that it wasn't a figment of Sam imagination or an incarnation of his fractured psyche as some fans suggested.
    Hallucifer is indeed Lucifer. The angels are able to get into humans dreams, it make sense Lucifer could do something like that.

    I don't understand Zoe POV concerning Dean either. Dean helped his brother, he tried to let emanuel-cas be in peace instead of revealing the truth. I loved that, he was still angered but he didn't try to get some revenge by hurting Cas.
    Dean as always, put others people needs before his own.

    San didn't seem to hate Cas either. And Cas, despite his obvious fear of lucifer, took that burden away from Sam. Those character have such a noble and open-handed mind. Love them!

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  172. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 17:55

    Exactly.  I watched the vid and nothing there confirms anything to me.  He was talking about a random remark by a crew guy...who knows if the crew guy in question was interpreting the script as Kripke intended?   I still say Chuck's ultimate identity is up in the air and that that was intentional on Kirpke's part.

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  173. CyanaT24 March 2012 at 17:58

    Thank you, I agree that the show should never have brought Cas back - the angel storyline is dead and what's dead should have stayed dead. So much for the mega -hype for weeks about MC's return and all the "(more extreme) Cas fans" who claimed they were only returning to live viewing for the episodes where Cas (and the Dean-Cas bromance) would be featured. 

    Evidently Cas fans did not comprise a greater average than "0.75 demo" or the prelims would be at least 0.7 with a possibility of adjustment to 0.8. 

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  174. isleofskye24 March 2012 at 18:02

    Nikita did not have a dip in ratings and SPN did.
    Whatever the cause of that is, I am not expert enough to decipher it.
    I am just pointing out that the fact exists.

    I can't really believe that anyone would boycott SPN just because their favourite is or is not on the show; I would always watch the episodes regardless.

    However I don't believe that Collins has as big a fan-base as you think.
    He may certainly have more vocal fans and maybe lots of them are followers of Twitter and all that jazz, but I'm betting that there are many more silent lovers of SPN who are perfectly happy to watch the show with or without Castiel, and who don't bother their heads with making their preferences known on-line or anywhere else, but simply sit down each week and enjoy an episode of Supernatural.

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  175. numer0six24 March 2012 at 18:03

     Yep Cas was scared by lucifer as he was scared by the archangels. It was quite evident in his scene with lucifer in "abandon all hope"
    He is not an insensitive robot-like angel, he is curious, he care, he fear, he love.
    He faced his fears to help Dean and humanity.
    I love him all the more for that :-)

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  176. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:05

    I hear what you're saying but with all due respect to you and Nikita, what exactly do you want?  Would you like Sam to be on a psychiatrists couch for the entire season spelling out every second of what he went through in hell and how it's making him feel?  What exactly would that achieve?
    Again, I disagree that it's been physical...it's anything but.  Please remember that Sam's issues all revolve around the SOUL, which is an extremely metaphysical entity.  There's no real way to wrap your mind around that concept...there's no black/white, right/wrong, so it's difficult for any group of writers to accurately portray it.  No matter what they did it was going to be frustrating simply because they CAN'T just spell it out.

    And also remember, in "Wishful Thinking', back in Season 4, when Sam was pressing Dean to talk about what he'd gone through in Hell, Dean refused...his exact response was "There are no words'.  That's literally true.  There are no words to accurately describe the experience.  Dean never did so fully... he mention the one detail of having tortured souls himself, but that's it.  The rest manifested itself by him crawling into a bottle and having nightmares.

    So how was Sam supposed to express something that, as we all know, had to have been a hundred times worse of an experience than what Dean went through.  He went to Hell, he was locked in a cage with Lucifer...suffice to say it wasn't a vacation.  Maybe we just need to fill in the rest ourselves?  Personally, I wouldn't like to see the Sam's psyche flayed and dissected in front of us...that's not what this show is about and certainly not what I want to see.  We get that both brothers have suffered, I'd just like to see them allowed to heal a little, but that's just me.

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  177. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:11

    Good point on only having Meg's words.  That's the problem with the demons...you can never trust them.

    And for the record...I never liked the wall/Lucifer storyline either, but I did like how they handled things last night and I really hope we get to move on from here.

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  178. numer0six24 March 2012 at 18:18

     That is likely. I'm on medication since two years and I gained weight. Before that I never had weight increase.

    Fortunately, my unwelcomed change isn't all over the tv screen. That suck for an actress.

    Like her anyway. And I find good for women that we can have a female character ho isn't slim on screen.
    Enough with the "always slim, always sexy" diktat on female characters!

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  179. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:21

    I hadn't thought about the amulet connection and that is annyoing because it really, really pissed me off that they did away with the amulet, but still found it touching that Dean had kept the coat...and transferred it from car to car...the way he had kept Dad's leather coat.   I still believe Sam has the amulet...I can't believe he didn't take it out of the trash and will continue to believe that until proven otherwise!

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  180. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:22

    Spirits, folks...stop trying to think logically.   Who knows what they can really do? ;)

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  181. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:24

    Count me in as wanting more emotional talks, but I draw the line at Sam giving every excruciating detail of his time in Hell and comparing it to Dean's.  Why?  What could that possibly achieve?  I want to see some healing and that means getting beyond focusing on the crap that happened and putting it behind them.

    I'm still holding out for the return of the amulet myself!

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  182. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:27

    So you'd prefer that Sam remain a drooling mess?   Sorry, but I'm glad that part is over.  I want a little Sam and Dean against the world action...that's what we've been missing!

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  183. numer0six24 March 2012 at 18:31

     Hello Deangirl!

    You're right, at least for dark side of the moon. Maybe joshua was indeed reporting God word.
    I persist to say He didn't answered Cas cry for help in the man who would be king. There was no "no", no "yes", no advice, nothing :-/
    Sometimes, The "God work in mysterious way" thing is quite frustrating ;-)

    At least, until proved otherwise, I can theorize God brought back Cas from death a few times.

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  184. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:37

    THANK YOU, Bec!!!!!   Could not have put it better myself and could not possibly agree more.  Love the point about Dean not making the same mistake twice too...hadn't even thought of that myself.  Excellent response!

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  185. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:40

    He was having hallucinations and trying to get away from him...that's why he was running.  And Dean was asleep in the car...they showed a glimpse of him when Sam imagined the windshield breaking and jumped out.  Then he looked back and the windshield was intact and you could see Dean asleep in the front seat.  Then Sam ran off.  I didn't have any problem with how that was handled, but I would've liked a brotherly moment at the end.

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  186. ravenclawwit24 March 2012 at 18:41

    This whole discussion is just fanwank. Yeah Castiel's return did not increase ratings, but you can't say that it decreased them either, because there are simply too many variables and a lot of shows had a bad night last night. Therefore you can't make any objective statements about whether Misha returning to SPN was negative, positive, or a wash based on ratings. Your assertion that they "should never have brought Collins back" is based on your own opinion of the character.

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  187. Jimi Sturges24 March 2012 at 18:41

    Was awesome but Cas should be able to deal with Sams hell a lot better since he is still an Angel

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  188. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:43

    God, I hope they're not going to change Bobby into a threat.  They do that and they will have undone all the good they did with "At Death's Door" and with  having around and helping them since...not to mention just totally destroy the character.  They can NOT do that!!

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  189. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:45

    Exactly.   People tend to grow and learn from their mistakes, or so we'd like to hope.   As you pointed out so well above, bec, hopefully that's what the trenchcoat symbolizes for Dean...that's he matured and learned from his mistakes.

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  190. Sara24 March 2012 at 18:46

    I agree. I know people like Cas but sometimes they really twist and bend things around to avoid criminating him even when he deserves it. What Sam did was heroic and instead of blaming Cas for tearing down the one thing that protected him from what he endured, it's Sam's fault for doing it in the first place. I guess the world should've ended then.

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  191. Deangirl24 March 2012 at 18:50

    The amulet was a physical symbol of the brotherly bond between Sam and Dean.  By throwing it out, Dean was expressing his lack of trust in his brother at that point, which was a painful thing for fans of the show to see,  which is why so many of us would like to see some resolution on that point.  The brotherly relationshp is SUPPOSED to be the heart of the show...for the show to come full circle that needs to be restored.  That's my feeling on it, anyway.

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  192. sharonally24 March 2012 at 18:52

    When was Sam a drooling mess? not this season or last night .You may want a certain aspect of the show but others feel differently.Sams story has hardly been a strain on the audience.He has been fine all season and even in last nights he was still functioning so that what we get a functioning Sam who always functions .

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  193. chris68424 March 2012 at 18:54

    I would agree that the majority of fans are not online fans and are not the extreme fans - both lovers or haters of certain characters - that you seem to find a lot of online.  But when it comes to characters that tend to be fan favorites, I'd guess those who are more popular with online viewers are more popular with offline viewers as well.  A lot of offline viewers were probably very excited to see Cas back again this week - even if that didn't change their viewing habits.

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  194. rehabber24 March 2012 at 18:57

    All the Misha fans that I know, and I am one of them, are also die hard fans of the show.  We did NOT stop watching when he left, so for our group the ratings would have stayed the same.  We are not fair weather fans that are only there when things go our way.

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  195. ShatteredOne24 March 2012 at 19:00

    The only time I saw him being a drooling mess was this episode.  I just wish we got to see more of Lucifer in his head and the struggle he was going through this season instead of just glimpses that weren't satisfying.  We barely saw him unable to function which is what we expected based on his wall crumbling, but he didn't.  Sure, it's nice that Sam and Dean are kind of back to normal, but I just feel cheated with that storyline and that it was a big letdown in the end.

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  196. ShatteredOne24 March 2012 at 19:01

    That'd be cool if we got to see some more of Mark Pellegrino because I've loved him every time he showed up this season, he was hilarious this episode.  Hopefully with Cas returning a couple more time we'll get to see him, like you said.

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  197. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 19:04

     A mess? Oh yes. He was a mess, that's for sure. A drooling mess? Not so much. A drooling mess was Raphael's vessel back in S5. ;P Sam was loosing his ability to function. He could barely open a candy bar on his own. Had it continued on, Sam would have died so honestly it's not that big of a letdown and considering Jared described this as "putting on a brace and getting back on the field" I doubt Sam's trauma is over. Cas took his hallucinations. He didn't take his memories or his soul. Sam's soul is broken. He's damaged goods and most likely this isn't the end of Sam's Hell trauma.

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  198. Ally724 March 2012 at 19:05

    He said he talked after to Eric and if Eric had told him it wasn't that, he wouldn't said ''yeah i was surprise I was God''


    He said he talk to Eric and answer he was surprise being God after

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  199. SammyWsGirl24 March 2012 at 19:10

     No, he never had any intentions on fixing Sam. Misha Collins said that himself. Castiel purposely did what he did and he wanted Sam to suffer for it, all because they didn't stand down. To even remotely try and justify that is just pure denial that precious Cas purposefully hurt Sam.

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  200. Lissie_Bee24 March 2012 at 19:15

    I'm pretty sure the guy asleep in the car the weird druggie that Sam met in the alley.  He promised him something that would knock him out or something like that.  And I get that he was having hallucinations, but as it began, I just felt like I was flipping channels and randomly settled on the middle of an episode or something.  It was just kind of jarring to me.  

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