Thanks to arrowshieldfan for the heads up.
David Ramsey: "From my understanding, H.I.V.E. is going to be a big part of next season's big baddie. We are going to delve right into why H.I.V.E. hired Deadshot to kill Andy and what H.I.V.E. is all about to begin with. There will be a lot of Diggle's connection to H.I.V.E. next season so stay tuned."
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Cisco & Laurel is one of "our most fun stories" per @AJKreisberg. Cisco builds her a new Canary cry like the one from comics.— Flash TV News ⚡ (@FlashTVNews) April 5, 2015
ReplyDeleteSnape - "Obviously"
ReplyDeleteWill this happen on Flash or on the Arrow? If Flash, then damn!!! I feel like I am starting to miss out on many things that happen in crossovers due to me not watching Flash.
ReplyDeleteNothing new, about H.I.V.E. I mean. We already knew they were season 4 big bads.
ReplyDeleteSorry to say that happens on the flash, Laurel and her dad will appear on the next episode I think.
ReplyDeleteThats so cool that she finally gets a new canary cry.
ReplyDeleteI think she asks him for the device Flash episode airing on the 21st. But doubt he'll build it right away, so she'll probably introduce it in a future Arrow ep.
ReplyDeleteDiggle... more Diggle? nooooo.. kill him, please
ReplyDeleteso H.I.V.E. means more Diggle.. who the hell cares about him? and this say more interesting things: Lois Lane, Luthor, Teen Titans.. but no... they can't mention Superman, Gotham etc......
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.I.V.E.
SAME!! That Flash promo with all the Arrow stuff made me mad. I think I'll have to catch up or something (I left on episode 9).
ReplyDeleteAll i got from this that Diggle is completely safe,at least until next season!
ReplyDeleteSEEMS LIKE THERE WAS A TRAILER SHOWN AT WONDERCON! AND IT WAS CRAZY
ReplyDeletePlease don't make the big bad Felcitiy's dad. She needs to go back to what she was in Season 1 hacker/tech sidekick. The Olicity thing jumped the shark and part of this season was ruined because of her.
ReplyDeleteyup, pretty much my takeaway as well.
ReplyDeletePlease don't put all the blame on Felicity just coz the writers didn't know how to handle the romantic relationship.And no matter what happens,as we are now in season 3,felicity certainly won't go back to being the mere geeky sidekick just for the sake of convenience.It's called character evolution.
ReplyDeleteIt will happen in ep 19 of Flash. You need to catch up.
ReplyDeleteIs it just me or do you think that in the end it's going to end up being laurel and Oliver as the happy couple?
ReplyDeleteSo, because the writers can't do the will they/won't they stuff well, the female character needs to take a back seat again? I get saying that Oliver and Felicity shouldn't be together romantically because of this season, but saying that Felicity should go back to just being a "sidekick" when she was certainly more than that last season without any damage, and in my opinion much improvement, to the series just seems kind of squicky. And now everything that happened between Oliver and Felicity is Felicity's fault somehow? Maybe that's not how you meant it, I don't know, but it comes off like "She didn't work as a love interest, and it's clearly all her fault, so back to the sidelines for her." Whether or not they work as a couple shouldn't change Felicity's standing in the show, as she is still a great main character, she just was the victim of being written in two romances at once in a show where that isn't the writers' strong suit.
ReplyDeletemy gut says no, but who knows what they have planned.
ReplyDeleteI'm seeing a pettern here: Oliver's son nod? On The Flash. Felicity's némesis? On The Flash. Laurel gets her Canary Cry? On The Flash. How many developments for Arrow will happen on Flash? I'm not ok with that...
ReplyDeletewell, that can hardly be considered news. I'm not really familiar with HIVE, who could be the big baddy?
ReplyDeleteright, but have they all been exclusive? they mentioned his son on a episode of Arrow. They will probably mention the cry on Arrow as well. like "where did you get that...."
ReplyDeleteIt could very well be. I don't think anything is set in stone... But after everything they did on Season 3(her being his last dying tought, the one he sees himself if he were "normal", etc) would be difficult to swallow. If Felicity dies at some point it could be very likely.
ReplyDeleteIdk, this show sometimes asks you to forget things of the past, but the buzz the gave Oliver and Felicity in S3 will be hard to forget.
Catch up? More like start from scratch. :(
ReplyDeleteI haven't watched a single episode but I have kept myself informed of major developments in the Flash verse - Harrison Wells/Eobard, Reverse Flash, Snowstorm, Time travel, Barry/Iris etc, etc. It's just that I hate having important Arrow stuff happen on Flash because I miss seeing it on Arrow.
yeah, it does feel like they are building Felicity up to be an end game type relationship. He was with Laurel for how long and never said he loved her (that I can recall) and he has already told Felicity that.
ReplyDeleteOh no never going to happen. Worse idea ever.
ReplyDeleteIt is mentioned on Arrow but plot points are just relegated to throwaway lines. "Oh! This happened in Central City. Moving on,,," And as a Arrow watcher only, I am sitting there going "WTF, show?"
ReplyDeleteWell, Damien Darhk may be Felicity's father and the "Sebastian Blood/Maseo" of Season 4(the left hand of the Big Bad).
ReplyDeleteThis year was very Thea/Malcolm centric with the League and Laurel's transformation into Black Canary(i love Nyssa training her btw!). Next year could be very Diggle and Felicity centric with HIVE/Papa Smoak.
Season 4 MUST have less "personal drama". Season 1 and 2 were dark too, but in S3 all characters were crying, fighting and brooding ALL THE F**KING TIME. I would love a funnier dynamic without taking Starling City's bleak atmosphere.
Hopefully if there's a new love drama i would like to be someone for Laurel. I'm done with Olicity's "will they/won't they" and be best to put them as a couple so we can go back to the more funny stuff and further Oliver's personal development as "Oliver Queen".
Laurel is pretty lonely and the girl needs so fun. She's a very dark character(like Oliver) so it would be good if she could get a lighter chaarcter(Like Tommy was). Also Lance and Donna, i would TOTALLY watch that.
God forbid a character evolves in 3 seasons. Romance arc aside how can she not change with all the events happened to her Slade, Sara, Oliver's death etc. She cannot always be portrayed as the comic relief side character with no depth.
ReplyDeleteI honestly believe that she will end up with some as Oliver says "normal".
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling that they might stick to the comics on this subject.
ReplyDeleteI like Felicity and Oliver together better but I feel the writers are going in another direction.
ReplyDeleteYeah unless there was residual energy or something it wouldn't work.
ReplyDeleteThey already did GA/BC, a couple that ultimately ends being apart. They change A LOT of more important things and to be honest, GA/BC isn't as iconic as they want the people to believe. They're not Lois/Clark, Barry/Iris or Dick/Babs.
ReplyDeleteWell I don't want to read the whole article. But we all knew this and I'm very excited about it. I miss having a lot of scenes with Diggle, and I want him front and center as opposed to what we've been getting with him.
ReplyDeleteand what makes you think they are besides just feeling?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind oliver and felicity taking a break for the moment but I never want to see laurel with oliver. She deserves better. And I hope she finds someone that will treat her right.
ReplyDeleteif Damien Darhk was her father would they bring the whole immortality into it? would that have passed on, since it was in his blood, to her?
ReplyDeleteIdk, Arrow is Green Arrow just in name, so they can toy as much as they want. Especially since he's an unknown character to the masses.
ReplyDeleteyeah, they have deviated in many ways from the GA comics and since they introduced the pit and the idea of immortality I can see it happening.
ReplyDeleteDarhk being Felicity's dad, cool
ReplyDeleteI think so and also odd because he looks like he is in 20s (if they go with the immortal route) would explain why he "left" them, i.e not aging etc...
ReplyDeleteIts strange how flash has way more crossover appearances than arrow. Yet on arrow the whole season 3 only two episodes.
ReplyDeleteFlash has too many episodes featuring arrow characters, but not enough for arrow.
Cisco? Who is he? Will he be her new romance as well? Or just a trainer?
ReplyDeleteoh cool.
ReplyDeleteno, the Laurel and Oliver ship has crashed and burned. I don't see that coming at all. And it would really suck, Laurel is just annoying, the actress very bad.
ReplyDeleteWatch The Flash treat Laurel better than her own show, LOL. Can't wait for the Cisco and Laurel fun story and for her to have a Canary Cry like the comics (I'll take tech, just give it to me).
ReplyDeleteThe comics basically I understand that not all the time it sticks to it but I feel like the writers first though was that Oliver would end up with Laurel little did they know that Felicity would become a fan favorite and that's why they started the Oliver - Felicity ship I would really like to be wrong but I think I'm not
ReplyDeleteI thought Arrow's been treating the Laurel character great this season. But, I wouldn't be surprised if her one appearance in The Flash is better than her entire arcs in S1 and 2, haha.
ReplyDeleteCisco Ramone on The Flash.
ReplyDeleteyes now I remember
ReplyDeleteBesides regressing her fighting skills (she was pretty kickass in S1 and 2) the first half of this season could be dubbed "Laurel gets berated by someone", whether it was Oliver or her father, she always did something that was meant to be wrong and they always made sure to let her know. That plus inconsistent screen time, she had a few episodes with decent screen time, but then other episodes with less than 5 minutes, at best.
ReplyDeleteThe second half, minus the writing for Lance, has been really good to Laurel, but even then we can't even get on screen training for Laurel, despite making a point of saying Nyssa is training her, and they care so little for Ted, they don't even bother telling us on screen if he's alive or not.
But I do think her story line this season is one of the strong ones and she's finally given something good, so for the most part I'm happy.
I still wouldn't be surprised if Laurel gets treated better in one episode of The Flash than S1 and 2 of Arrow, though.
Her fighting skills weren't regressed any. She knew how to defend herself, but it was alluded to early this season that she couldn't defeat some drunken boyfriend because she was trying to focus on "Sara's killer" and not trying to protect/defend/fight for herself. I THINK it was in "Corto Maltese", or in "The Magician".
ReplyDeleteHer lack of screen time doesn't mean anything either. Arrow was heavily packed in the beginning of the season much more than the latter half which has given Laurel a lot more to do(ironically since the first half was meant to show her being trained by Wildcat and we saw little of this and more telling of this).
I disagree, look at her fighting scenes in S1 and 2 and compare them to her scenes in S3 (not just the wife beater) and I definitely think her skills took a step back, so she could be shown to be even more novice. And after months of training with Ted, you'd think she'd show even more improvement.
ReplyDeleteLack of screen time indicates the writers clearly didn't know or care what to do with her in the first half. How hard would it have been to add training scenes? Or have her help an Arrow case at the DA office? The writers just don't care about characters anymore and I'm not just talking about Laurel- what do we even know about Roy's backstory? He never got a flashback episode, he's another body in the field and even then he's always knocked out so Oliver gets the big moment. How about Diggle, despite all his screen time, he only gets 1-2 episodes a season devoted to him and the rest of the time he's supportive background and there for relationship advice. Felicity has the #2 amount of screen time after Oliver and got zero story lines that weren't about her love life, even her flashback episode was more about the villain of the week than about HER. Thea is lucky if she gets 5 minutes of screen time per episode and suffers from inconsistent writing, Merlyn is a joke this season and Lance is being character assassinated, when he shows up for more than 1 minute of screen time.
If the writers really wanted to, they could find a way to service all these characters, flesh out their backstories and give them story lines. But they don't care about them as characters, especially this season, but it was also there last season.
Her fight scenes as the Black Canary have her using a weapon in the same manner in "Betrayal" when she used what appeared to either be a cane or umbrella. Same manner and same form when she's using the baton. And in regards to her fighting with just her hands, she has shown to be much more impactful in her punches this season as well, with comparing how she landed a punch in previous episodes before S3. I know this, I've been re-watching S1 as of late.
ReplyDeleteAnd a lack of screen time doesn't mean the writers don't care; a lack of screen time also means they had way more to deal with and Laurel ending up getting the back burner, which is sad but you did get enough to know what was going on with her arc.
Roy doesn't need a backstory; we know enough about him. We know about his parents already in the "Dodger" episode; his father is dead and he lied about his mother so all we know is that she's dead too. We know that he was a 'thug' but he started to idolized "The Hood" just like in the comics. If anything, all we really need to know about Roy is about his mother, but what would be so important about that? Regardless, this does stay true to the comics as Roy never knew his mother either.
If she's so much better at hand-to-hand than using a baton, she really should be using her boxing more, especially since her first trainer was a boxer.
ReplyDeleteA lack of screen time means the writers don't know what to do with a character so said character is on the back burner. I'm actually pretty happy with Laurel's story line this season, it's other characters that are really suffering- Thea, Lance and Merlyn are all regulars who have less screen time and story lines than Ray Palmer, who is a guest character (like last season with Sara).
I disagree about Roy not needing a backstory and I thought Roy implied he made up the backstory he gave Thea? Even if you ignore the family issue, they could always do what they did with Diggle and Felicity- have his flashback connect with a villain of the week, show us him growing up on the streets. I'm sure something worth telling has happened to Roy in those years or he crossed paths with someone who could be dangerous. Even the cop story line they gave him could have been a good story line if they treated it as such and given us a bit of it here and there instead of introducing it, then ignoring it for almost 10 episodes until he told Thea about it. We could have seen him looking up the cop's family, debating whether to reach out to them or not, seen more about his guilt and feeling like he deserves to be locked away.
I care about characters first and foremost, storyline for me is meant to service the characters, not the other way around. So if someone is a regular, they should have decent screen time (over 5 minutes, other than special episodes that are focused on one specific character), consistent characterization (poor Lance) and development/story lines. They could have done so much with Thea being trained by Malcolm, but other than 2 seconds of training scenes every now and then, they didn't do much with them and now Merlyn is just there, completely pointless.
Sorry, I have a lot of feelings about Arrow and the way they've been treating the characters since last season.
Disagree. She shouldn't be using her hands more if she has a weapon, a weapon that has been to good use as she's Black Canary. In fact, I'd rather see her using her hands and legs once she's training with Nyssa, to which she has been at the moment.
ReplyDeleteA lack of screen time doesn't always mean the writers don't care, but have a lot of things to juggle on their lap, which is true for S3. As I said, with enough being given to Laurel, she has been fine, as well as the three characters you mentioned. Honestly, the only character falling through the cracks this season has been Diggle. I love the arc we've been given with Thea, Merlyn and Lance.
I never said Roy wasn't lying about his mother, but it doesn't matter because if Roy actually doesn't know his mother, it's true to the comics where Roy isn't aware of who his mother is. In fact, it would be the best to never show her until or unless DC gives the writers permission on who should be Roy's mother. And the idea of who Roy is, as some "thug" on the street before he idolized 'The Hood', there is no reason to give Roy any kind of backstory. Diggle went through war and even brought up a character that we later saw in "Suicide Squad" and Felicity was always a mysterious character until her episode in S3...the same cannot be said for Roy, who has never been viewed as a mysterious character with a mysterious past like Felicity, or ever referenced to any other characters like Diggle.
The extra stuff you mentioned wouldn't be necessary. It was made to be a nice reveal in showing that Roy is trying to "fix" his own mistake by telling Thea that she needs to find a way to forgive herself as well; in fact, the viewer finding this out earlier wouldn't be as much as an impact as it would in that moment where he's with Thea. I would agree that we should have gotten more about how guilty Roy does feel and how he wishes to be in prison, but "Broken Arrow" seems like it'll be a big Roy episode and this will further develop that plot for sure.
It's fine if you feel that way about Arrow, but I've been the total opposite. I think S3 has cared much more about the characters than S2 has which seemed to only focus on Ollie, Slade, Sara and partly with Diggle. Diggle has been falling through the cracks this season, but this season has also cared more about everyone else as well while also introducing Ray Palmer.
I don't mind the baton, but it's Black Canary- I want to see some hand-to-hand fighting at some point. And after several months with Ted training her, I wanted her to be slightly better than the show is showing her to be, because she didn't seem to struggle as much with taking out bad guys in early S1. I would really like to see some of her training with Nyssa, but I don't think we'll get any, so just show me her becoming a better fighter. Her getting her Canary Cry can certainly help her be more efficient in fights until then.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest, yeah, we really feel the opposite of one another when it comes to the show and its handling of characters that aren't called Oliver Queen. We'll just have to agree to disagree, but that's cool.
Black Canary is hands-on when she's one of the finest martial artists out there, amongst guys like Batman. Knowing simple boxing maneuvers since basically she couldn't have learned a lot from Wildcat is understandable that she continues to use her weapon, but now being trained by Nyssa, who obviously knows many techniques, I think we'll be seeing a lot of her fighting without having to use a weapon. And then with her new Canary Cry device that Cisco will make her...she will finally become a real threat.
ReplyDeleteWell, Ted Grant wasn't just a boxer, he was a vigilante and in episode 6 he showed her a move that wasn't boxing, so I think he knew more than that and probably taught her some of those moves off screen (since that's the only training we're getting for Laurel, off screen, one has to speculate a bit). But yeah, now that Nyssa is taking over her training, I want to see more and varied fighting techniques from Laurel and I look forward to her using her new Canary Cry and finally becoming a real threat, while she perfects her martial arts. She'd better be the best or one of the best martial artists by the time the show ends, because they did Dinah Laurel Lance so dirty by having her be the last hero to suit up and train (and not giving her the benefit of off screen, in between seasons training like Roy and Thea got).
ReplyDeleteTed Grant is a brawler, but what we've seen if him just showing her boxing method except for that one instant. We even see Wildcat using brass knuckles as his weapon, so being a brawler was never going to 'fit' with Black Canary who ended up depending on a baton.
ReplyDeleteAnd Thea will be the last one to suit up, really. There is still no Speedy around.
He stood his own against Oliver pretty well, but yeah, we didn't get to see enough of him to know if he was more than just a brawler or not. Such an insult to Ted Wildcat Grant, but what can you do.
ReplyDeleteThe might be the last to suit up, but she can probably fight better than Laurel, from the little we've seen from all her training scenes. So Laurel is almost the last to suit up and the least proficient fighter, it's still not great.
And that isn't even Arrow's fault, really. The guy who played Wildcat was cast in something else which is a shame. Arrow should have gotten the guy who Wildcat tapped in as a series regular, at least for just this season.
ReplyDeleteArrow should have either recast or found a way to work things out, other shows had people guest star even when they were regulars on other shows, but maybe J.R wasn't interested, I don't know. They brought him back for 3X12 and they must have known at some point he'd be unavailable- they could have just brought him in to film a bunch of training scenes and spread them across the episodes (like Hannibal did with Gillian Anderson in S1, she filmed all her scenes at once and then they spread them over 4 episodes). Hell, I'm just mad they never officially, on screen told us if Ted is even alive or not- how hard is it to put in a line of dialogue, saying he's recovering in the hospital from his injuries?
ReplyDeleteI won't complain if right now Laurel is already a much better fighter due to Nyssa's training, I guess we need to really see her in action to find out. And even if Thea is the last to suit up- Speedy has always been a sidekick, Black Canary should be more than that and a hero in her own right, but in this universe, Roy suited up before her and is a better fighter, but there's nothing I can do about that. So I just want Thea to finally suit up and I want Laurel to become the kickass fighter she was meant to be, those are the two big things I want by the end of the season. I've waited since S1 for both of them.
Look at Manu though, Arrow pretty much had to work around his schedule and we barely got like ten minutes with him as Slade. It's harder said than done when it comes to working around peoples' schedules.
ReplyDeleteBlack Canary will never feel like "her own", though. This series is the progression of Green Arrow and everyone around him is "Team Arrow" or the "Green Arrow family" if you will just like the comics, but in this case...BC will be just like Arsenal/Red Arrow and Speedy(or whatever Thea is named). It's disappointing considering the kind of character BC is in the comics, but that's the obvious outcome.
Did they even try though? And I thought the return of Slade was completely pointless, as did Manu apparently. How many episodes did J.R shoot before he knew he was a regular on another show? He was only in 3 episodes before he disappeared, how hard would it have been to just recast him like they did Tatsu? He wasn't in a lot of 3X03 or 3X05, it wouldn't have taken long to reshoot those scenes at the gym.
ReplyDeleteI don't expect Black Canary to be separate, but eventually I'd like it to feel like she's his partner and an equal part of Team Arrow, rather than a sidekick, which Roy is and which Thea will probably be. Black Canary is NOT a sidekick, whatever she ends up doing on the show- working with Oliver or leading a team of her own and as of now, I'm happy with how she's functioning within the team and how she doesn't take Oliver's BS and stands her ground.
I just hate how the whole season she had people telling her no, that she wasn't a hero (she didn't need an island and suffering to learn to care about other people, she's always looked for justice, even at the risk of her own life, she's a hero in my book), that she wasn't Sara, that she's not good or skilled enough. People came around eventually, but I'm getting a bit tired of people berating her all the time, I'm ready for her to be respected and appreciated more. Nyssa is a step in the right direction, as is Cisco on the Flash. Giver her her Canary Cry, let her skills become formidable and stop having people berate or belittle her.
The comparison of Tatsu isn't there because the original actress never showed up in an episode and was re-casted so early before the season really started filming.
ReplyDeleteReally? I thought I head they had to reshoot her scenes in the episode. Even though, Ted only had scenes at the gym until episode 6, I assume they knew by then, which means it wouldn't have taken a lot to reshoot those scenes, OR use the fact that the actor is still there to film a bunch of training scenes and figure out what to do with the character's story line. It's just a waste of a good character and it lead to them not really knowing what to do with Laurel in the first half.
ReplyDelete