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Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review

29 Mar 2014

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It’s finally here. The highly anticipated, highly publicized, Tumblerized and Twitterized episode 17, otherwise known as Misha Collin’s directorial debut.

Hello Supernatural fans and welcome to the Gripe Review for the 17th episode of season 9.

A lot of my online friends are Castiel fans, and by extension Misha Collins fans. Weeks before this episode aired my social media dashboards were abuzz. From Twitter, to Tumblr to Facebook it seemed everyone was talking about it. Knowing that I was a Castiel fan many expected me to join the party.

Here’s the kicker though. I like Castiel. I’m not a hard core Misha fan. I hear about his antics online. I know he is a super nice guy (he started Random Acts) and does a lot of interesting things (Gishwhes, West videos, Twitter battles with other celebrities.) But the main reason I care about him is his character on the show.


That’s why when several people asked me if I was excited about his episode my answer was a virtual shrug. I was certainly curious to see what a Misha directed episode looked like, but considering two things: A) a well-directed episode means you don’t notice the director’s work and B) a Misha-directed episode means no Castiel, you could say I was on the fence about it.

The episode however turned out to be one of the better ones this season. Or perhaps it is my favoritism toward mythology episodes and the Henry/Abaddon combo but I found myself enjoying and at times guessing the story. I had no major problems with the plot other than the typical expository and one dimensional style of Adam Glass’ writing. I’ll discuss that, and some other issues, in the gripes. But overall, this was a strong episode, mostly thanks to Jensen, Jared, Mark and Misha, plus a set of skillful and likable supporting cast.

Gripe #1 – Who swapped Sam and Dean’s prescriptions?


Remember two weeks ago, when Dean was the one trying to talk to Sam and Sam was the one giving him the cold shoulder? Did we just watch the reverse of that happen at the beginning of this episode? Did they accidentally take each other’s medications or – as one poster said on the IMDB message board – did someone switch Jared and Jensen’s scripts?

I know I complained about the brothers being at odds, so the consensus must be that I am happy about Sam talking to Dean. However if there’s one thing I dislike more than the brothers fighting it’s lack of continuity. You can’t just sweep things under a rug and pretend they didn’t happen. The reason people worried about the Winchesters not being able to come back from this spat was because they believed in that continuity. If we suspected things would magically resolve themselves from one episode to the next we would have no reason to get excited over anything.


Of course one can blame the Mark of Cain, arguing that Sam’s sympathy toward Dean in his current condition has taken over his anger. Meanwhile Dean’s enthralment by the mark might be the cause of his mopeyness. However that explanation still ignores everything that came before last episode, and isolates the brothers’ story to the MoC – a similar scenario to what we had last season with the trials. People, when faced with a new dilemma, don’t just drop the old ones and pretend they never existed. They mix them up. That’s the nature of human psychology and a challenge every writer faces while creating believable characters. Dean might suffer from the MoC’s effect, but when he sees Sam finally opening up to him he would most likely jump the chance to repair his broken relationship with his brother. Once he has done that, and garnered Sam’s support, he would have enough time to brood and study ancient books.

Gripe #2 – Who parked Dean at the bar?


I know there needed to be some Crowley-Dean bonding time this episode, to establish whatever mythology they have planned for them at thetail end of the season (more on that in Gripe #4.) But do they have to sit in a bar and do nothing? Of course it wasn’t exactly nothing: they played pool, drank beer, used the men’s room for no reason and Dean even had a bonding moment with a dude there who turned out one of Crowley’s lackeys …but compared to what Sam was doing it didn’t feel all that exciting. In fact, like the Castiel/Bartholomew scenes a few episodes ago, the Dean/Crowley scenes slowed down the action. Of course it was Jensen and Mark so it wasn’t entirely boring. But couldn’t they bond whilst doing something other than a boy’s night out? Something a bit more exciting?

Someone told me this happened because Jensen asked for some down time due to being too tired. That was also why he and Jared were separated this episode. If that is true then I can’t blame the writer, or the show runner, or Jensen. The gripe falls on little JJ. Her daddy deserves all the rest he could get.

Gripe #3 – the return of the bottle


This week we saw the return of Dean’s infamous drinking problem. He was moping and studying books like a failing college student and whiskey dropped by.

Dean’s heavy drinking always came alongside bouts of extreme trauma. He did it after he came back from 40 years in hell, when Sam was in the throes of demon blood addiction, after he lost Castiel to the Leviathans, and after Bobby died. He didn’t resort to it after purgatory which made me think he had finally kicked it, but its reappearance this episode refuted that theory.

What did trigger this relapse? Was it the Mark of Cain? Was it Kevin’s death? Was it Sam’s constant rejection of his attempts to reconcile? It must have been something serious to compete with the above list. Dean is a tough guy. For him to go back to a bad habit the trauma must be gargantuan.


Which is where my problem lies. I don’t think anything that tragic happened to Dean this season. Sure it sucked that Gadreel possessed Sam and killed Kevin. But if that was the reason we should’ve seen the bottle two episodes ago. The Mark of Cain has a severe effect on the bearer for sure. But it looked more like intense anger and aggression rather than a slump. And if it’s because Sam had been cold to Dean lately, having Dean hug the bottle and ignore Sam, in an episode where Sam finally opened up to him, makes no sense.

My problem with Dean’s drinking in general is that it is used too often as a plot device rather than a character trait. Even in previous seasons when he had legitimate reasons to turn alcoholic the issue was immediately dropped as soon as something new happened in the story. It was as if the writers used it to give Dean something to do while Sam grappled with plot heavy issues like lack of a soul or Lucifer in his head. Then when Sam’s ailment was cured so was Dean’s, like magic. The writers never spent any time exploring this side of Dean. To bring it up yet again with so little incentive and the introduction of yet another brand new storyline seems like spinning the same wheel.

Gripe #4 – You already told this story


A beaten down guy with remarkable powers. The king of Hell seeking to exploit him. A reluctant meeting between the two where the beaten guy keeps rejecting the devil while he sweet-talks him into an alliance by bringing up all that he could gain from it. A shared, powerful enemy. And most significant of all, human souls as bargaining chips.

Does that sound familiar?

Let me refresh your memory with a picture.


There’s already talk on how this will be the season when Dean falls. If that’s the case then his story – aside from its details – will parallel Castiel’s in season 6. And, if we get a little laxer with our comparisons, it will also parallel Sam’s in season 4, leading me to believe these writers either have no original ideas, or the ones they have are so weak they rather resort to retelling tried and tested stories.

Gripe #5 – The Evil Nun of Babble-on


I am a badass demon nun. Look how easily I got your badass knife, Sam. You might think I am going to cut you with it and steal your soul. But I have something far more insidious in mind.

First I’m going to tell you all of my boss’ plans so you – and the audience – could understand what’s going on. Then I’m going to let you ask questions, which I’m going to dutifully answer because I care about your full understanding. Then, when time finally comes to kill you, I’m going to choke you instead of using the knife, giving you enough time to defeat me with your exorcism app you have at hand. And then, after getting quite upset about the app, I’m still not going to use the knife. I’m going to crawl toward your cell phone in slow motion while moaning and grunting, so you have the opportunity to easily stab me in the back.

You say I’m the dumbest villain you met? You have to talk to the writer about that.

Gripe #6 – Souls in jars


This one was the subject of some debate. It is here because we don’t have enough canon information for this to make sense, even though there are some speculations that might resolve the problem. Still without them, much like stealing the grace of another angel, this plot element runs against others that were established before season 9.

Remember how demons had to make deals to get human souls? Makes me wonder why the crossroad variety wasted as much as a decade in the trade if they could simply cut it out of people. If this was possible why didn’t Crowley do it in season 6, instead of going after illusive purgatory souls? Why didn’t Alistair or Lilith make themselves an army of demons using this method? Did Lucifer forget he could jar human souls to give himself more battery power for his battle with Michael? Why did Azazel go through so much trouble getting John’s soul through a deal instead of ripping it out?


Some fans argued it’s not the demons’ way, that Abaddon is playing dirty and going against the natural order of things, which isn’t right even by Hell’s standards. Does that mean the other baddies had standards? You might convince me Crowley and Azazel did, but Lucifer wasn’t playing by anyone’s rules. If there was a way for him to give himself a boost against his brother he sure would have taken it. Besides, we still haven’t been given reason to believe Abaddon is worse than the rest of the denizens of Hell.

Kudos – someone remembered season 6


The episode gained my praise in some areas. One was the case of the week, which for once kept me guessing. I couldn’t tell why the humans were acting evil when they were clearly not possessed. I wasn’t counting on lost souls so when Sam mentioned his own soulless condition in season 6 – and how it paralleled what was happening with the humans – I was delighted. True there’s that issue with ripping the souls with a knife, but for any SPN writer to remember what happened in the previous seasons, let alone use it as a plot element, it is praise worthy and a major improvement over the canon crushing random rabbits they usually pull out of hats.

As always comments are welcome. I’m away this Saturday and won’t be able to respond to them. Please don’t mind me and keep the chat going until I rejoin the conversation on Sunday.


Tessa

tessa-marlene.tumblr.com/
twitter.com/tessa_marlene 

73 comments:

  1. Thanks Tessa, love these Gripe reviews

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  2. Great review. I agree with every single one of them. My main issue with this episode is how every person who became soulless acted. When Sam had no soul he was an asshole, yet suddenly being soulless means you kill people a few hours later and smear blood messages on the walls. That bugs me. It also bugs me that Sam suddenly cares and Dean ignores Sam. I can forgive continuity sometimes in this show as it's been on for so long, but the writers better make sure they keep continuity in the same season.

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  3. Thanks for the review. I like Misha a lot so I would have been biased about his episode. It's nice to hear people who had no opinion one way or the other have a positive opinion of his work.

    I agree with you about the talking. The soul thing, I don't know how to feel about it. I don't think it's as much about standards as recklessness. Lucifer and Azazel seemed relatively restrained in their plans. Crowley was restrained for a while and he went off the rails last season. Abaddon seems to be "want. take. have." and she knows she has to fight off Crowley.

    Still, it's certainly not something that stands up to scrutiny.

    I know I complained about the brothers being at odds, so the consensus must be that I am happy about Sam talking to Dean. However if there’s one thing I dislike more than the brothers fighting it’s lack of continuity. You can’t just sweep things under a rug and pretend they didn’t happen. The reason people worried about the Winchesters not being able to come back from this spat was because they believed in that continuity. If we suspected things would magically resolve themselves from one episode to the next we would have no reason to get excited over anything.

    I think it's been relatively gradual. Sam was never so furious with Dean that he didn't care about his well-being. He was just trying to get Dean to see that he was wrong about the idea that they had to save each other at all costs. And he was angry about the whole thing, enough to distance himself for a while, to not get too close. But he doesn't want Dean to fall apart. As Dean has gradually fallen apart, Sam has become increasingly concerned. Over the last 3 episodes he's been more and more concerned.

    Which is where my problem lies. I don’t think anything that tragic happened to Dean this season. Sure it sucked that Gadreel possessed Sam and killed Kevin. But if that was the reason we should’ve seen the bottle two episodes ago. The Mark of Cain has a severe effect on the bearer for sure. But it looked more like intense anger and aggression rather than a slump. And if it’s because Sam had been cold to Dean lately, having Dean hug the bottle and ignore Sam, in an episode where Sam finally opened up to him, makes no sense.



    I think we did see the bottle several episodes ago. In some of the early scenes from The Purge, Dean had been up all night, and I think he had been drinking. In the bar scene in First Born, he was also slurring his words and sluggish.


    As for Dean and tragedy this season, I think it's more that he lost everything he believed in as good or true. All his friends are gone (Charlie, Garth, Cas). He had to kick Cas out, after having spent over a season wanting Cas by his side and waiting for Cas to return. He had to helplessly watch Kevin be murdered, and know that he was one of the main reasons why. Kevin's last words to him were that he always pays for helping Dean. He could justify all this that at least he saved Sam, because he always saves Sam, that's his job, that's what he does, but Sam made it very clear that he disagreed and that this was toxic and deadly.


    Everything Dean had survived on - that he was doing the right thing, that protecting Sam was right and good, that he would protect his family and friends as best he could - was torn away. And that means he has to look at himself and wonder what he is. And he just sees himself as a tool, a time bomb waiting to go off. As a result, he just has this suicide mission to go on.

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  4. Thanks for the review, though the gripes you mentioned weren't actually gripes IMO, or just about this episode. This ep was great, like you I'm not a hard core Misha fan, but his work here was really amazing. Now I honestly regret the numerous times they could use his talent but missed it.

    #1. Actually the problem is in the nature and the extend of the disputes. Last season, Sam not looking for Dean was crazy and unbelievable. This season Sam's massive anger and his words about not being brothers and accusing Dean of being selfish and practically stumping on all they've done for the past years, was crazy and unbelievable. I mean their fight plots are so fake and exaggerated they really can't resolve them in a logical manner, so this sudden turn of attitudes.

    Here I have a gripe about Dean's expected response from some fans, why do you assume Dean should be jumping at the slightest glance from Sam and happily embrace it? Dean is not some little plant waiting for Sam's anger to lessen to come and pet and water him! Those words Sam told Dean were as destructive, if not more, as Dean's lies. And now I really don't know how Dean is supposed to think Sam means well. I think Sam needs to assure Dean that they're brothers first and then expect to get accepted as his most trusted person again.

    #3. This really bothers me too, Jensen can convey how crushed Dean is w/o alcohol, they don't need this, as you said, plot device to magnify it.
    ----------------------
    I have 2 story-wise gripes, not just in this ep, but the current story line:
    1. Why are they looking for Abaddon?! She's not hiding, they just need to devise a trap plan and simply call her. No need for such intense search.

    2. Why don't they cure Crowley? This way they could use his vast knowledge and resources AND be safe from his evil scheming. And why they scorn him for his addiction? Supposedly it should lead to a more human Crowley, the opposite of Sam's case, right? So it's a good thing.

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  5. The only way to cure Crowley was for Sam to die, wasn't it? Weren't they tied together?


    I guess they could just do it the way the Men of Letters did in the old reels from Clip Show, but they may think they need his powers and influence. He also has the blade to hold over their heads now.

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  6. Yes, I was talking about the MoL way.
    Well I guess a human Crowley would give them the blade... But anyway, I'm wondering why they're insisting to kill him after they're done w/ him. With his vast knowledge and resources, even a human Crowley could be so helpful for them in the future.
    I'm afraid this 'curing demons' was just another plot device for playing w/ Crowley character and is just a loose end!

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  7. IIRC, their original plan in season 8 finale was to cure Crowley and then kill him. We don't know what the effects of curing would be, but as a human, Crowley would lose all his power and resources - after all, a great deal of both of those comes from his command over his demons who'd abandon him if he's cured Also, I think the idea was that even a human Crowley could not be trusted (he did choose to make a deal when he was human, after all), so his knowledge could not be relied upon either. Basically, curing him won't do any good right now.

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  8. I think the idea was that even a human Crowley could not be trusted (he did choose to make a deal when he was human, after all)

    Making a deal is hardly proof of lack of trustworthiness. Dean made a deal after all. So did Evan, and John and Sam tried. And Cas made a deal that didn't involve his soul, but was still a deal, even if he didn't intend to keep it. Now after all the years of being a demon, Crowley may not be trustworthy, but making a deal is the least of his issues.

    I was never sure what they intended to do with Crowley. He would be human again and straight out murdering a human being is pretty skeevy. Plus, since it was going to close the Gates of Hell, Crowley would have had no resources to turn to. Crowley might have killed himself. The other demon that was cured was horribly guilt ridden. How could Crowley live with all the destruction he did as a demon? Also we know that the bodies that demons use retain the injuries they sustain while being used, the demon doesn't heal them, just keep the body going. So there is a good chance Crowley would have died from whatever injuries his body had suffered in the years since he took over. In any case, I think it was somewhat unclear what they were going to do with Crowley after they healed him.

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  9. Its not just "making a deal", its what the deal was made for. Crowley's history isn't unclear - his mother was a witch, its indicated that he practiced witchcraft when he was human, he hated his son to the point of wanting to torture him (the feeling was mutual) and he made a deal for a bigger penis. That's hardly what you'd call a noble or desperate.

    Further, at that point, Crowley was responsible for a lot of bad things - primarily, killing Mrs Tran (or so they believed). So, even if Crowley had turned human and regretted his actions, I don't think that either the Winchesters or Kevin would've been able to forgive him. Plus, I think there was a throwaway comment at some point that once they cure him, they'll kill him.

    I think all this makes for a pretty good case that Crowley is only useful to them as a demon with resources and once they have what they want - human or not - they'd kill him.

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  10. All we saw from the soul removal was a blue light, nothing more. Souls being able to be ripped out doesn't seem that left field, I mean the show has had supernatural creatures that are able suck out souls of their vicitms -- the crocotta and shtriga.

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  11. It always gripes me how people who claim to like a show bitch and nitpick about it
    so much, SPN and its team of TALENTED writers must be doing something
    right as it enters its TENTH season! And about the writers who create
    Supernatural, why don't you go to College for 4 years apply for a job at
    Supernatural get hired and see if you can do better. Also maybe the
    parallel of Deans arc and Castiel's is, among other reasons, so he can truly
    understand and forgive Cas for his working with Crowley that season. I remember
    a lot of people hating on and criticizing season 6 and now some of those
    episodes are Supernatural Classics.

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  12. Very few gripes for me. This episode was solid. I could nitpick but I won't. Now if we were talking about episodes 12-15 then I write a massive multi-page article of gripes for those. Just glad to see things finally picking up again. Really hope the last batch of episodes remain good with a strong season finale. Also lets end the angel/demon war once in for all. Whose with me? lol

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  13. The thing is these writers haven't been with the show for 10 years. Only two or three. And none ever watched the show before joining.

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  14. I don't think a Shtriga qualifies - it was clearly stated that they absorb the life-force and not the soul of a person. The results were different there as well - the person got sick and died, he didn't become a psychopath.


    The Crocotta actually fits my theory - so thanks for reminding me. My idea was that for someone to be able to rip the soul out, the human has to "come to the monster" in some sense and Crocottas mimic loved ones to lure humans. There seems to be more to it than souls simply being ripped out.

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  15. Umm... Dean has forgiven Cas for working with Crowley. And Cas sees his actions of season 6 as wrong. Dean following Castiel's footsteps won't do anything for their relationship - two wrongs don't make a right.

    And yes, I believe that a lot of fans can do a better job of writing the episodes. The reason Supernatural is still doing well is because the core of the show - which is what fans love - hasn't really been tampered with. But the quality of writing has gone down. As Tessa points out every week - the writers ignore canon, commonly use cliches like a villain monologuing, have inconsistent characterizations often to show the guest stars in a better light at the expense of the main characters and pass the "idiot ball" around quite freely - all this is not evidence of good writing.

    All you have to do is re-watch some of the earlier seasons and you'll notice the shift in the tone of the show. Just because I think that even with declining quality, Supernatural is still one of the best shows on TV does not mean that I don't want the quality back up.

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  16. The writers don't ignore canon any worse than the Kripke years. In fact the Kripke years have bigger and more egregious canon retconning than not remembering a single reference to the Grand Canon 7 years ago.

    Villain monologuing is nothing new with the show, and Sam and Dean have not been dumbed down in the least. Just because a character may figure something out or know something before Sam or Dean, doesn't make them dumb. If that was the case they've been dumb shits for the entire run of the show, considering they would frequently call up Bobby or Ellen to give them an answer to something. It reeks thinking Sam and Dean have to be completely perfect at everything, when they need to fallible on occasion, otherwise a story won't work.

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  17. Life force, soul, tomato, tomatoe. They retconned a lot of things from season 1 in the subsequent seasons.

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  18. There is a difference between retcon and ignoring the canon - but I'd like some examples of retcon from Kripke years.

    Sam and Dean's "fallibility" isn't about having to consult other hunters in matters of myth and lore. Its about them getting railroaded by the MotW and needing the guest star to barge in, be the hero and solve the problem for them. This used to be an occasional occurrence - but now, this seems to to happen every other week.

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  19. Except, the soul and spiritus vitae are not the same thing, have never been the same thing and have been treated differently - so there was no retconning required.

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  20. The big ones I can think of right now is the inconsistency with angels, Cas says at the beginning of season 4 six angels died protecting a seal, but then later on in the season there's this big mystery regarding who/what is killing angels, and then it's revealed by Uriel that only an angel can kill an angel, which gets dropped by the next season. And then there's Alastair claiming he got the scythe from Death himself, who was hoping the Apocalypse, and then when we meet Death, he doesn't care about it. There's also the fact that Azazel's and Lilith's endgame, don't match up with what was going on in the prior seasons.


    Then you can get into the really nitpicky stuff, like how demons changed from the first appearance to the next, and how saying "Christos" causes pain, Sam and Dean being ready to shoot a zombie in the head in season 5, when they know should know that wouldn't work.


    Compare that stuff to a flubbed line about the Grand Canyon or a ruguru, which is worse?


    Unless you want to count the pack of dogs in "Dog Dean Afternoon," there have been two instances of that happening this season, once with Charlie and once with Jody. That hardly constitutes "every other week."

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  21. All that isn't retcon because not everything that comes out of a character's mouth can be taken as true and factual. Cas said 6 angels died protecting a seal - not killed or murdered. The idea that only angels can kill other angels comes from the fact that you need an angel blade to do so, which demons wouldn't normally have. And why would you take Alastair's words as true? Death was sealed away at the time and his scythe was being passed around in hell until it ended up with Crowley. Azazel's endgame seemed pretty clear in hindsight - prepare Lucifer's perfect vessel, open the devil's gate to free Lillith and get a righteous soul in hell.



    And how exactly did the demons change? They've always had the black smoke/black eyes/possessing people thing going on and it was established pretty early that while the weaker ones are affected by "godly" things like holy water, sacred ground or name of god, it doesn't work on the big leagues. And the zombie they faced in season 2 was of a different kind from the onee in season 5. All that doesn't come under retcon.


    And yes, I do count the pack of dogs as guest stars who saved the day. I also count the kid who had to get rid of his mother's ghost, the angel possessing Sam, two wannabee hunters, Mrs Tran and Crowley. And there are many more examples from the previous season as well - Larping Charlie, the boy and his golem, the witch and his dog, Prometheus, teenage hunters, geriatric psychic and so on. That's practically every "filler" episode for the past two seasons.

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  22. Dean needs to go juggernaut and clear all boards, and Cas needs to return to Heaven. Cain needs to turn out to be the bad guy (the King of the Damned) and onto S10. Definitely, the angels need to go away permanently.

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  23. I am sorry that you feel the need to criticize fans who have invested almost ten years into this show. It's not a group think bunch and the show is far from perfect. It never was perfect, but they used to be able to tell a decent story. The reason the show has lasted so long is because of a loyal fanbase and because they have the J2s in the show. It certainly is not for the inferior writing going on.
    I did like that the tone of this episode was more like the earlier seasons, and I did like that equal time was given to the three separate stories. That was the good part.

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  24. I'll tell you the worst of all, and that is the reaper mythology that was completely trashed in Taxi Driver. The Grand Canyon remark by Edlund was just a third finger to the fans who were complaining about the trashed canon. IMO, that was a parting shot.

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  25. Few comments:

    Gripe #2 - "Personally, I thought the whole story could have been told in the few
    Dean/Crowley scenes. Sam’s case in learning Abaddon’s plans (the
    audience already knows this)..."

    Did we know this before? I mean, we've been hearing a lot about how Abaddon is worse than Crowley and how she is getting ready to make her move, but I think this was a good concrete example.

    If the whole Crowley-Abaddon war was just about hell then the Winchesters could simply sit it out and then take on the victor. We needed to see Abaddon's plans having a real effect on humans and this was a good way to show that.


    Gripe #3 - "I don’t think Dean is an alcoholic..."

    I think he is. A functioning alcoholic, but an alcoholic just the same. We always see him with a beer or whiskey in his downtime and there have been other indications like how he consumes an upward of 50 drinks per week and how he can't get drunk anymore.


    Gripe #4 - "I think they are just rewriting S4 Sam and S6 Cas..."

    I sincerely hope they are not repeating the same storyline. It seems to be heading that way, but there is sufficient differences - Dean's own character being one - that they can still head it off.


    Gripe #6 - "Abaddon has been doing this for fifty-plus years and nobody in the factory towns have noticed..."

    I don't think that was the case. Sister Agnes had to lay low for a while after Abaddon possessed Josie - after all, it'd have given away her game if the things that Henry and Josie just stopped started up right after they left. Then Abaddon went missing for 50 years and Agnes laid low (while keeping the meatsuit) and the whole project was scrapped. Now that Abaddon's back and she has gotten her bearings, she is restarting it on a larger scale.

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  26. This is tit-for-tat that I talked about. When the real Sam showed up, he was thinking that his life was only worth a big self-sacrifice. Now it's Dean's turn to think that. I would really like to see some creativity and thought put into a season's story.

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  27. Gripe #2 about the whole story could have been done with the Dean/Crowley scenes. I think the opposite. We didn't need the Dean scenes. We already knew he was affected by the blade. I hope the writers will be careful with Dean's story. It's great so far, but they focus so much with his character's feelings that when he's despondent, I feel they show too much of the angst and it borders on self-pity. Sometimes, less is more. I want SO MUCH for Dean to grow and realise that most of his constant misery is a product of his bad choices, not what he is. He's not poison. He's a good person who has made a series of bad choices which have turned the person he loves the most away from him. I want him to apologize and start to earn Sam's forgiveness. Of course, we'll have to wait until the Cain story is finished I guess. But I'm tired of Dean remaining such a static character.

    Gripe #3 I think it's been made clear over the years that Dean is an alcoholic. IMO.

    Gripe #4 about the story repeating Sam's and Cas' S4 and S6 stories. I agree and it's frustrating. The Mark is Sam's demon blood, Crowley and Sam's Ruby, etc. BUT, it's the first time that Dean is infected with something demonic, and it's also the first time Sam will have to deal with that, maybe even wrestle with killing him. So there's lots of potential there and I hope it's not squandered.

    Tessa, I don't think that Sam worrying about Dean is so jarring. I see his anger lessening over time and he's softening, but, like Dean in Season 5, things are not the same, especially that Dean said he'd do it all over again.



    About the inconsistencies with the souls, I've pretty much given up on looking too closely at the mytharc since last season. It's too frustrating. I just go along for the ride.

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  28. Thanks for reading. I enjoy writing them, and reading the comments.

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  29. I could work with the soulless side effects being different for each person. Not as bad as reapers suddenly possessing humans and finding back doors to Hell. The part about Sam and Dean is Gripe #1, so it obviously bothered me too.

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  30. Dean could be considered as a functioning alcoholic, but he does stop and go at will. I like the drinking, because I think it is realistic for a dedicated hunter. Mostly, I don't like political correctness to carry over in my entertainment.
    We'll see how the retread goes. I hope it isn't another "power of love" thing like Swan Song.
    Sister Agnes roaming around in a dilapidated convent, by herself, for fifty-seven years is a bit more than I can suspend belief on. I am okay with others buying into that. I just don't.

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  31. I don't think she was roaming around in the convent. She probably went around doing what demons do when they are not under orders. She might have gone back once she was ordered to resume the work.

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  32. We knew Dean was affected by the Blade, but we did not know how. This episode showed that Dean liked the feeling of power and the idea that he could kill Abaddon with it, but he is afraid of what that will do to him as a person. That is what he was considering -- does the end justify the means. The young hunter (demon) reminded Dean that he hunts to save people, and killing Abaddon is what using the Blade will do, so he committed to using it. I don't see him as 100% on-board with Crowley at this point at all. My hope is that Dean is playing Crowley, more than Crowley is playing Dean. I'd like to see Dean (and Sam) remain smart characters.
    Dean's 'addiction' to the blade is precisely Sam's demon blood story. I am not yet sure if Crowley is Dean's Ruby, because I don't know what Crowley's end game is. Right now, we just know Crowley wants to use Dean as his tool, but after that, then what? I just hope that this doesn't end with Sam saving Dean out of the power of love, and I certainly hope it's not a "if you can't save him, you have to kill him" story.

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  33. Thanks for the comment, always very insightful and detailed.

    I think it's been relatively gradual. Sam was never so furious with Dean that he didn't care about his well-being. He was just trying to get Dean to see that he was wrong about the idea that they had to save each other at all costs. And he was angry about the whole thing, enough to distance himself for a while, to not get too close. But he doesn't want Dean to fall apart. As Dean has gradually fallen apart, Sam has become increasingly concerned. Over the last 3 episodes he's been more and more concerned.

    Fair enough. But couldn't we have Dean acknowledge it? Perhaps with a gesture of surprise, like "Wow! Sam initiated a talk. He does seem to care about me." Dean isn't in Sam's head. For all he knows Sam is still mad at him. And he wouldn't just give up and say screw it I'm going to mope instead of care about Sam and our relationship. What bugged me most about that scene was that there was no transition between their previous one-on-one and this one. Had there been something that connected the two, and communicated what you wrote in your comment perhaps, I would have rolled with it.

    I think we did see the bottle several episodes ago. In some of the early scenes from The Purge, Dean had been up all night, and I think he had been drinking. In the bar scene in First Born, he was also slurring his words and sluggish.

    Yes, but they didn't "feature" it like they did this episode. There was an entire shot of just the whiskey bottle while Dean took it out of a bag. Obviously they wanted to make a statement about Dean being back to drinking.

    Kevin's last words to him were that he always pays for helping Dean.

    But Kevin's ghost sounded pretty content. He talked to both of them like he held no grudge. I know Dean has a habit of blaming himself. But again it just seems a little random that it happened in this episode and not earlier. Same with the Mark of Cain since he's been wearing it for a while now. Unless killing Magnus was a big deal I can't tell what happened between the last time Dean was drinking normally and this episode that triggered the "lingering shot on the bottle" effect.

    He could justify all this that at least he saved Sam, because he always saves Sam, that's his job, that's what he does, but Sam made it very clear that he disagreed and that this was toxic and deadly.



    That's a nice analysis. I wished they had highlighted it in the show, through a dialogue of some sort followed by Dean reaching for the bottle . Anything to tell me what is happening inside his head that is causing his funk this time.

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  34. Well, that is what a retcon is. When the show says one thing and then decides down the line to change it, that's a retcon. The Trickster actually being Gabriel, that's another retcon. The fact is angels still died, and then later on in the season there was a big mystery as to why/how angels were being killed.

    And again the Alastair thing is an obvious retcon, they were setting up Death as one thing and then decided to change it.

    You're confusing guest star that helps them out in the climax as saving their lives.

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  35. Reaper mythology was not trashed. They added on to it, just like Kripke did in season 2.

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  36. Thanks for the comment.


    This season Sam's massive anger and his words about not being brothers and accusing Dean of being selfish and practically stomping on all they've done for the past years, was crazy and unbelievable.


    Amen to that. I might have said something similar in one of my earlier reviews but I too think they exaggerated Sam's anger on purpose to milk it for their plot. Maybe it's meant to be what pushes Dean over the edge? We'll have to wait and see.


    Here I have a gripe about Dean's expected response from some fans, why do you assume Dean should be jumping at the slightest glance from Sam and happily embrace it? Dean is not some little plant waiting for Sam's anger to lessen to come and pet and water him!


    Because that's how the show portrayed him, especially last season when, despite Sam being the one who left him in purgatory, it was Dean who constantly fought for Sam's approval of Benny, and who let go of his friend when it proved to be the only act gained him that approval. I don't like Dean orbiting around Sam either. But show keeps throwing me evidence that says that's the case so I take it as one of his traits. For show to now kick it to the curb without an explanation is cheating, not something I personally miss or want for Dean.


    1. Why are they looking for Abaddon?! She's not hiding, they just need to devise a trap plan and simply call her. No need for such intense search.


    The mechanics of calling a demon have been vague at best. They were looking for Azazel for two seasons and obviously couldn't call him. Maybe demons show up only when they want to. I know this has been subverted at times on the show, but we're talking about writers who still haven't gotten their Heaven and Hell mythologies strait. So for them to mess up demon summoning is not a stretch.


    2. Why don't they cure Crowley?


    Maybe it no longer works outside the trials. The real answer of course is the writers like him better this way and could get more out of him plot wise.

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  37. It's obvious the reason he was hitting the bottle so hard was because of what the mark of Cain did to him.

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  38. Except, the show didn't say one thing and then change it - the characters did, which is completely different. If the show had shown something as a fact and then added something else to contradict it, that would be retcon. Showing something that contradicts what another character said is not.

    For example, while the Winchesters believed Gabriel to be the trickster spirit, his powers were beyond what he had seen so far from Pagan gods. He could alter reality at will, he survived the prescribed way of killing a god and he could mess with timelines - all of which are powers of an angel's arsenal.

    Similarly, the big mystery on the show was how Lillith was suddenly able to kill angels en masse. That angels were dying wasn't the surprising event in itself.

    And again, nothing Alastair said could reliably considered as true. Which is why his statements about Death were not considered a part of continuity.


    And I'm talking about guest stars being shown as helpful at the expense of the brothers' expertise. Sam and Dean are supposed to be the experts here. They are supposed to be able to take care of business without needing help from the guest stars. But all to often nowadays, in order to make the guest star appear useful, the show makes it appear that they couldn't have solved the problem without the help.

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  39. No that is exactly how retcons work, the method of how the retcon is implemented does not matter, whether it's through an act or a line of dialogue it's still a retcon.


    Also Gabriel totally a retcon. His first appearance was in season 2, before season 4 Kripke had no intention of introducing angels to the mythology.

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  40. Sorry, that's not how retcon works. For it to qualify as retcon, the concepts being changed have to be established as facts (or reasonable facsimile thereof) within the continuity.


    The only reason Gabriel qualifies as retcon is because according to the creator, angels weren't a part of the continuity before. It is one of the examples of a retcon done well - since it doesn't contradict any definitely established fact in the continuity.



    Simply contradicting what a character said before or even believed to be true does not make a retcon.

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  41. It always gripes me how people who claim to like a show bitch and nitpick about it so much

    Me too. Isn't that annoying?

    SPN and its team of TALENTED writers must be doing somethingright as it enters its TENTH season!

    Or people, like me, like its talented actors (and characters established in the days of yore, when the writing was actually good) and tolerate the terrible writing by bitching and nitpicking about it. Or, you know, writing reviews.

    why don't you go to College for 4 years apply for a job atSupernatural get hired and see if you can do better.

    Because I already went to ten years of college, got two degrees, one of which is related to media studies, and have a really good job. Still, even my sister who has no writing experience and no degrees in the field would do a better job than these guys.

    Also maybe theparallel of Deans arc and Castiel's is, among other reasons, so he can truly understand and forgive Cas for his working with Crowley that season.

    If you honestly think that you haven't been paying attention to the show. Chances that these writers are going to make characters learn or understand anything from the past is lower than Kelvin's Zero, especially when anyone other than Sam or Dean is involved. That is why I was so impressed they remembered soulless Sam.

    I remembera lot of people hating on and criticizing season 6 and now some of those
    episodes are Supernatural Classics.



    Some of those episodes were classics even back then. It was the overall stroyline that was all over the place and lead nowhere.

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  42. Tessa, I don't think that Sam worrying about Dean is so jarring. I see his anger lessening over time and he's softening, but, like Dean in Season 5, things are not the same, especially that Dean said he'd do it all over again.


    But in season 5 there was a definitive moment in Free to Be You And Me when they came together and forgiveness happened. I guess I was looking for something like that. I'm not supposed to rationalize Sam's actions from one episode to next. There needs to be an organic transition in the form of a scene or dialogue that shows the progression of this issue in a reasonable, natural way.

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  43. Ginger, I think what is different about Dean/addiction to Blade vs Sam/ addition to demon blood is here Dean is worried about the effect on himself. I don't think Sam thought about it that way in Season 4. He just believed he was right/doing it for the right reasons and that was that.
    I have read everybody's comments on WHAT the heck the demon/hunter deal was and I am still confused. I thought Dean saved the hunter's life it was not about saving Crowley's life, as Dean believed Crowley was in no danger from the guy with the wrong type of blade. I don't think at all it proved Dean was "Crowley's bitch" as I have seen it colorfully alluded. Just that Dean still cares about a single person which is what his credo is.
    I have known functioning alcoholics: they are drunk, you may not think they are drunk-drunk. But I know when they are drunk. I find it weird that Dean is not affected that much. But the way the camera showed him taking the bottle out of his pack was heavy-handed to me. I get it, I got it, I have it.
    Lastly, I didn't see it that much as a switch in prescription that Dean wouldn't really look at Sam while Sam wanted him to hunt. I think that Dean is BEYOND fed up with Sam's conflicting signals and is just not going to play the game anymore.
    I think my ideal end-game for this storyline would be for DEAN to be dead/ on the verge of death and SAM has to do something bizarro (I don't know what that could be, just something that has repercussions in the future and then SAM to see it's not easy NOT to do off-the-wall stuff when you know how to do it. (I saw Season 2 as being sort of a primer for Dean to sell his soul: Daddy Dearest does, he finds out from Evan and the other guy HOW to sell his soul in Crossroads Blues, the demon laughs and says he COULD have gotten his daddy out, then Sam dies and Dean sells his soul in a paroxysm of grief /he failed everybody and shouldn't be alive anyway/ and we go on from there. It's the example of his dad and the knowledge of the method that bring him to sell his soul.) I really want SAM to be in the same position as Dean was at the beginning of Season 9 and see what HE does.

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  44. I know people are frustrated with the angel and demon stories. Most of it is because of how grossly those stories were mishandled in the post Kripke era of the show. Unfortunately the previews show runner tried doing something else, with the Leviathans, the Alpha monsters, and the Mother of All Monsters, and all of it failed. That is probably why they have run back to the Heaven and Hell stories because no matter how bad a job they do, they at least have a solid base to build their plots on. I fear the thought of them getting rid of that base and ending up spinning their wheels in the wind.

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  45. RE your end game. Sam could never be in the same position Dean was at the beginning of Season 9. My guess is Dean will be on his way to becoming evil, and that wasn't Sam's case at the beginning of the season. Sam's soul wasn't in danger of being damned, he was just dying a human death. Yes, Sam might have to do something crazy to save Dean from becoming evil and I hope he'll be able to.


    What would really disappoint me is Sam tricking Dean into remaining alive in a way that Dean would never accept, while Dean is having a natural death. That would be a validation of Dean's betrayal and a continuation of a very dysfunctional relationship.

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  46. "Last season's big finale..... "

    About Cas's story.

    I'd say that the writers are deliberately keeping it separate. In fact, they have been keeping it separate since season 6. Then we had some big angelic battle going on which was mostly offscreen and things merged at the finale. Again, in season 8, while Cas interacted with the boys when it came to the tablets and Crowley - but the whole Naomi gang was pretty much kept away. I'm not sure why I expected that to change in season 9. I think Cas will remain mostly separate from the Winchesters until the finale when the two storylines would converge and then break-off again in season 10 premiere.

    I don't know why the writers want it that way - its not efficient story-telling. I think they think that the angels are still big enough powerhouses that Winchesters won't be able to contend with them in a consistent manner (the other option being, making them weaker) and Cas is too much of a Deus ex Machina to be regularly involved with the hunts. So they keep their stories separate and bring them together when they feel like it.



    "Like I said in my other reply.... one aspect of their relationship"

    I think we have been seeing the transition. Sam never consistently gave Dean the cold shoulder - he did it only when the topic of their fight was brought up. He always shows concern when Dean's life is at risk and we saw him concerned in last episode as well - when he was asking Dean to drop the blade.

    Dean's non-reaction wasn't surprising either. While, as you said, Dean wants Sam approval, he doesn't want Sam's concern. His reaction to Sam being concerned has always been to downplay everything and shut it down.


    "True, but they highlighted it... given us any."

    My point is they weren't highlighting the drinking itself but using it to underscore the fact that Dean was in an emotional slump. My theory is that among the stuff that gets Dean down, the top contenders are failing someone he cares about (or fear thereof) and thinking of himself as a monster. That is guilt and self-loathing. He had the guilt from Kevin's death and now there is the way the mark makes him feel. That's enough to go on for the moment.


    "Does Sam know about this...."

    Except, so far, there is no indication that Dean has changed his mind about killing Crowley once Abaddon is dead.


    "She said...."

    That's not enough to go on. That she gestured at him with a knife does not mean she intended to stab him. In fact, since it was Sam's demon-killing knife, needing it rip Sam's soul out wouldn't make any sense. She choked him to stop him from saying the exorcism.

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  47. Actually, I liked the whole mother-of-monsters storyline while it lasted.

    A primordial evil - older than angels and more powerful - capable of creating new creature - that story had potential.

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  48. I think you mean at the end of "The end". I thought is was forgiveness too but as the season progressed we saw it wasn't the case. Even as of episode 18, Dean said he didn't believe in Sam. I think that forgiveness came at the end of that episode, and we could even argue from Dean's subsequent comments in later seasons that he never really forgave Sam. Things certainly have never been the same between the two, except for Dean's obsession with saving Sam.

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  49. Yes, sorry, I meant The End. And perhaps it wasn't full forgiveness, but it was something that explained the new state of their relationship in the next episode. Dean saw first hand what losing Sam looked like and decided to at least start on the road toward forgiveness. The fact that it wasn't full forgiveness didn't intrude on his working alongside Sam in the next episode because we knew what led to it and it was shown to us. It wasn't something we speculated that happened in their heads.

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  50. I agree with you that Dean was saving the young hunter/demon. I also think it reminded him of why he hunts -- to save people -- and that was why he committed to using the Blade despite the consequences to himself.
    Gamble once said in an interview, in talking about Dean's drinking, that these guys were heroes; therefore, they could do things so much bigger than normal people -- meaning that is why Dean can drink so much and not be affected. I can agree with people that Dean is a functioning alcoholic, but my personal take on it is that he can turn it off and on at will, and I don't consider any kind of an alcoholic to be able to do that. It really doesn't matter, though, because heavy drinking is one of Dean's characteristics; whereas, Sam isn't. BTW, the end scene where Sam has a beer in his hand and none for Dean, I thought was a sign of the continuing rift between the two.
    I know a lot of people want to see Sam save Dean for a change, and I am sure that is the predictable thing the writers will do. Personally, I think they each need to solve their own problems. I don't see how Sam saving Dean will give Dean any more self-worth than he has now. He would just think he screwed up again. I don't see how it would help Sam, either, since he started the season thinking that his life was only worthy of some big self-sacrifice. What it would do, in my way of thinking, is put everything back to the status quo, and I would find that not a good payoff to a story we've spent a season on. It could be, though, that they have dropped the 'maturing' and 'co-dependency' issue and are going to wrap up the angel storyline and the Crowley/Abaddon contest. They are running out of time, because they have juggled their multiple storylines for far too long, I think.

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  51. It's a fact Castiel says "Six of my brothers died in the field this week." If the only way to kill an angel is with an angel sword then how did they die? And why would it be such a mystery that angels would be dying later on in the season? It's either a retcon or a canon fuck up.

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  52. There is no Sam exaggerated anger in this or victim Dean. There is no point in the fandom downplaying what Dean did so that Sam's anger seems wrong , there is no set of rules into how someone reacts to non-consent possession nor is the reaction supposed to suit the other person. Dean's reaction and holding onto grudges is well documented and see neither a Sam being bellegerent or sitting there refusing to either work with Dean or talk to him.

    What Dean did was too someone who already has been hurt by possession and hurt others because of it and he knew it. The fandom seems to have had a hard time reconciling Dean's actions to how it would affect Sam and then accusing Sam of being in the wrong for some harsh words to Dean. Betrayal is not just a byword for what is done to Dean and Dean alone.

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  53. My impression was that the drinking had come back gradually, starting with Kevin's death and learning that he (Dean) was toxic to those around him, just as he told Sam before he left. That was also one of the reasons he didn't care about the consequences of the MoC. He's on a almost 'suicidal' mission to kill as many as he can as long as he can. From there, he started not sleeping and researching which showed up in the Purge then it came to what it is now because of the feelings invoked by the combination of the First Blade and the MoC. Killing Magnus and the flow of power involved in it, I believe, reminded him too much of what he became in Hell. AND he liked it! Like Magnus said, he would come to welcome it.
    He got a taste of what was to come with the MoC/First Blade and it scares the hell out of him. That's why he's trying to lose himself in a bottle. He's been lost for a while and now he knows where he's headed. I'm sure that he will try to keep pushing Sam away to protect him from what Dean believes he will become in the end.

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  54. Excuse me? Reapers are now corporeal and eat pizza right out in the open where everyone can see them. Since when do reapers eat? When Dean goes back to Ajay, he finds a real solid and very dead body. Reapers now possess people, just as angels and demons do (and Cas has sex with one). Any reaper can go rogue now, and Death, boss of the reapers, just doesn't notice or care? Or how about Crowley and Castiel spending a whole season plotting to find Purgatory, when they could have just paid a rogue reaper to tell them where it was. Why did Naomi sacrifice a bunch of angels to get Cas out of Purgatory, when she could have hired a rogue reaper to do it. But there is more. Angel swords can now kill reapers. Death, who used to be the reaper boss, means nothing...they have free will to be free agents.
    No, there was no expanding the reaper mythology. The pair of writers trashed canon, and I don't even think it was deliberate. I think they got their demon mythology mixed up with the reaper mythology.

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  55. Its also a fact that Castiel does not say they were killed or murdered. Maybe they sacrificed themselves to protect a seal. Maybe they were sacrificed by an archangel for some ritual to save a seal. Maybe they tried to force their way into a place littered with anti-angel sigils which rendered them powerless and easily dead. Maybe the demons were protecting themselves with a ring of holy fire and six of Castiel's brethren threw themselves on it to create a way for others. Or maybe, six of them simply got exorcized by demons and were punished with death for their failure.



    The angel sword is not the only way to kill an angel and the mystery later that season was how were demons suddenly capable of straight-up killing angels. So, its neither retcon not canon fuck-up.

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  56. Exactly. Repeating Sam's story and padding it with elements from Cas' story not only deprives us from all the original things they could do with the mark, it undermines Dean's disapproval of both Sam and Cas. It runs the risk of some seeing him as a hypocrite.

    Some have always seen Dean as a hypocrite. This started years ago. I'd rather see Dean get a story where he makes mistakes than him be written as perfect and have no story.

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  57. It should have had potential, but she was there for three episodes mostly to be called slurs and kill off recurring characters.

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  58. I think the demons are more of a threat now than they've been in a long time. Kripke made Lucifer the biggest wooby ever, and Gamble continued that mindset by pushing that demons are just like people.


    Carver brought some of the fright back with Abaddon, even if she isn't on much.

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  59. Since reapers are spirits (remember Tessa's true form), it would make sense that they could take possession of a body. Why would a reaper eat? Why does Death eat? Why do demons eat and drink? Why not? All Death cares about is that soul is reaped when it is supposed to go, If he knew Cas and Crowley were going to crack open Purgatory, and did nothing, I doubt some reapers hiring out their services gives him any thought.

    Why Cas and Crowley didn't use a rogue reaper, well for one maybe reapers hadn't decided to branch out at that time, and two they were looking to open a doorway to suck the souls out of Purgatory, a reaper could only take them into Purgatory. Who's to say she didn't use a rogue reaper to get into Purgatory, as for the angels dying, Castiel was being pursued by Leviathan, Leviathans can kill angels.

    Why shouldn't an angel sword work on a reaper? This is supernatural everything can die, even God. That's kind of the point of going rogue: Operating outside normal or desirable controls.

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  60. Retcons in the Kripke years - there weren't supposed to be angels (he said this in an interview)


    The rewrites of angels were shocking and lazy. The show claimed in season 4 that angels felt nothing. Sexless, emotionless. Anna said they just couldn't feel. This was stated as fact. The show made it clear that angels felt no sexual desires whatsoever. Then, not only did Cas get emotions, but we learn that Gabriel, an archangel, loved sex...even though none of the other archangels ever had that same inclination. Nothing about Gabriel as an angel made sense. Nothing.


    My favorite retcon of all time is that Adam could have been Michael's vessel all along. None of this was ever mentioned. And it makes the angels look incredibly stupid, because, instead of going to Adam before he died and offering to save him and his mother in exchange for a later "yes" if they couldn't get Dean, they let him be murdered and then had to go try to dig his body up.

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  61. I can't believe this was the show I considered one of the best written on TV only four years ago,

    I don't think SPN's ever been a particularly well-written show. The strength is in individual moments and in the performances. The show had potential, but Kripke squandered it in season 3.

    True, but they highlighted it this episode, by specifically holding the camera on the bottle as Dean took it out. They wanted us to know that this drinking was different from all the other drinkings.



    They wanted us to see how drinking affected him after he had the mark. I don't think they were saying this was the worst drinking bout ever.

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  62. Unless killing Magnus was a big deal I can't tell what happened between the last time Dean was drinking normally and this episode that triggered the "lingering shot on the bottle" effect.

    He had the blade in his hand. He craves that now. He's using alcohol to try to dull the craving.

    Fair enough. But couldn't we have Dean acknowledge it?



    I think we had some of that during The Purge, when Sam was uneasy about Dean's drinking and Dean reminded him they were just business partners.


    I agree we should have more, but Dean keeps so much to himself.

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  63. Ross part of Dean blowing Sam off was because he was beyond fed-up with Sam's previous behavior. Yes no hot cold, Dean's fed-up. Other part I think Dean "felt" the Blade and the way he looked at Sam right after he killed Magnus telegraphed to me that he was thinking about killing Crowley AND Sam.
    Yeah, years have gone by and Soulless Sam STILL shines for assholery. I got a question (always had a question about that): WHY did Sam WANT Dean to hunt with him? He really had NO affection for Dean. Why was Sam so hell-bent himself on hunting alphas? It's like he was supposed to have everything but Hunter burned out of him but why was Hunter still there and why wasn't he still hunting with Grandpa Shady? That always bugged me.
    I generally don't have problem with DEAN's motivations, but I do with SAM.

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  64. I so agree with you re Gripe #1. When Dean was going out on a hunt by himself a couple of weeks ago he was just heading out for the dugout. Bye Sammy. Dean is now expressing his displeasure with Sam's attitude as well.
    Yeah, while it's a meme of the show I am sick of the brown tea bottle coming out (I assume that's what the actor is really drinking).

    YOUR gripe #1: Dean got the Abaddon-killing bug from Crowley. He felt guilty about her getting free in the first place (question: I know demons can be in anybody;'s body but do you think they generally pick the same sex? Abaddon was going for Henry but took Josie; she was already in mother superior. So was Abaddon male or female in human life? Meg generally picked girls. Not they CAN'T be other sex but just feel better in one or the other) when she put her body back together.
    YOUR gripe #2: Curing Crowley could be done. The priest in the original tape survived. It could be done. But maybe curing him cuts him off from hell and they were using him for intel.
    I got nothing other than that.

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  65. I like the way you analyzed the issues from the Gripe Review. I see most things like you analyzed. Re drinking gripe: if Dean drank that much he'd be prone so I can't see him really being drunk all the time. He NOTICED demon-hunter. If he was DRUNK he wouldn't have noticed anything going on. I keep reading "functioning alcoholic" but that doesn't mean he'd NOTICE things.

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  66. You may be the only person on the planet who did not think reaper mythology was trashed in Taxi Driver. In fact, canon trashing was a hot topic on most of the boards during S8. Don't get me wrong. If that is what you believe, then that is what you believe, but I distinctly remember Taxi Driver as the episode that named the writing team the 'Nepotism Duo,' with several reviewers suggesting they needed to move on. Here are a few comments that address the reaper mythology that was trashed.

    From the Blogcritic review: the lack of respect for canon or emphasis on story logic in the writing room this season is hurting the integrity of the overall story

    From an unnamed reviewer: ...the rest of the story surrounding Ajay is complete tosh and grabbing the shorthairs of canon to make it scream. For a start, Ajay is a Reaper, yet he’s in a solid body and can be seen by the living. Plus, he works out of a taxi. Every single other episode has shown that the Reapers are incorporeal and can only be seen by the dead… We have met Death on this show and he likes this thing called the “Natural Order.” He is far more powerful than any other character so far on the show, especially Crowley...

    ...demons can do all the things Ajay claims to be able to do and it would work just as well with a demon coyote, without any butchering of canon.

    From a WFB review: Plot holes happen, continuity errors happen, but it is troubling to me that so many happened in one hour. (Continuity is a nice way of saying screwed up canon.)

    From the tv.com review: And by "this way" I mean WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING? (This reviewer got it wrong, because he/she thought it was a demon): “The boys wracked their brains to figure out how to bust in downstairs before calling an expert—a demon.”

    And this from a couple of fans in the comment section:

    ….supernatural has let itself down by- making it look so easy to talk to reapers, without being dead

    The first episode with a reaper fully established that a normal, healthy human can't see them even if they're standing right in front of them. In season 2 Dean met Tessa only because his injuries from Yellow Eyes put him in a near death state. In season 4 Sam and Dean had to be sent into the spirit world to save Tessa from Alistair. In Season 5 Cas and Crowley were able to see DOZENS of them even though Sam and Dean couldn't see any despite standing next to them. Heck, in season 6 Dean had to medically kill himself in order to talk to Tessa and Death, and even in season 7 when Bobby summoned his reaper in "Death's Door" it was in his head. And yet the Coyote Reaper can be seen as clear as day with no spells, hearts stopping or anything.
    That said, this team of writers have been given the mytharc episodes this season and seem to be doing a little better. There is still often gaping illogic in their episodes, and plot holes, and I think this episode reflects both of those statements.

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  67. I guess I want to see Sam save Dean and tell him he loves him. SCHMOOPY.
    Or I want the season to end with Dean having killed Abaddon and a bunch of demons (like Cain did) and being possessed by the Blade; then Sam is facing him down to kill him but he can't and Dean is telling him he HAS to and yelling some of Sam's own lines about Dean back at Sam. And Sam saying "but I didn't mean THAT." I really want SAM to be in the hard place morally for once and know it.
    Remember John telling Sam to shoot him in Devil's Trap? And Dean said no?
    And Sam did what Dean said, even though Daddy yelled? Sam did not feel any moral problems with that it seemed to me. But if you think about it, if he did then Dean wouldn't have been in the truck wreck and then wouldn't have made the deal. It was morally right but sort of ambiguous WHO was right in that cabin, Dad or Dean. And nobody ever discussed that. (Of course Dean's condition was mostly related to the damage Azazel did not the truck, so I may be full of hooey here.)
    I do agree with you on the drinking; Dean never appears to be "searching" for a drink IMO. You never see him drinking in the car and I gather they spend 14hr a day in the car when they are traveling. When they are at the job they just appear to be having a beer in the evening, NOT when they out investigating. I guess everybody has a different idea of a functional alcoholic (btw SAM drinks a lot too; it's just not telegraphed as much.)
    Oh I love this show.

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  68. Tessa. I don't see Dean as a hypocrite. He thought he had a straight-ahead type of job: get the Blade kill Abaddon. And then Crowley afterwards (I am SURE he means to kill Crowley). It got more complicated.
    In First Son he KNEW that Crowley "manipulated" him but decided the Blade was the most useful tool he could ever obtain.
    NOW he feels how he is changing inside (I read somewhere that Jensen said it was like the attitudinal changes steroids cause?) and is trying to control it ALL to GET THE JOB DONE.
    I think him "saving" hunter/demon guy meant to him that he still wanted to save people and that to him is the world.

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  69. Think how much better the Dean/Crowley scenes would have been if Dean actually had been hustling. We've never gotten to seen Dean in action. What if he was hustling the young 'hunter', so that we got to see another character - maybe someone who reminded Dean of a younger version. Like maybe he was trying to hustle _Dean_.
    I thought that the reason that Dean talking the kid out of killing Crowley had nothing to do with wanting to save Crowley, or even the blade. I thought it was because he saw the kid heading down the same road he had - which he now regrets- and wanted to save him, not just from Crowley, but from taking the kinds of losses he had.
    If the kid had been in those earlier scenes, such that we were reminded of a younger Dean (who we all miss, right?) that parallel would have been stronger and the whole set of scenes would have made more sense.
    Because why does Dean even care about the blade? I mean, he and Sam offed Abbadon without it once before. The only reason she's up and walking around is because they dug her up and stitched her together.
    So the blade is irrelevant - as is the MOC. The whole thing just makes Dean look like an idiot. It would be much better if the arc was about Dean learning to look before he leaps, changing because of his regrets, and understanding he doesn't have to be right all the time.

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  70. No, they comprehensively destroyed reaper mythology. Originally reapers were totally non=corporeal, invisible to anyone incarnate - unless they were dying. Instead, when you were in the veil, they could take on any appearance. They were under Death's control, a being older than god, who would eventually reap even him. They didn't have vessels. They were incorruptable.
    Taxi driver turned death into an incompetant CEO that didn't know what his employees were doing. Reapers became corporeal, in need of a day job, and corrupt - taking orders from hell and smuggling people across the veil. It was the worst canon trashing in the entire series.

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  71. Unless he has built up a high tolerance level for alcohol. Here's a handy little reference for Dean's drinking habits.

    http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Alcohol

    From the site : "He later goes to a bar to speak to a witness, and downs three double
    scotches in quick succession, only switching to beer when the bar tender
    indicates an interest in hooking up with him.
    Six standard shots of liquor consumed in a short time raises the blood
    alcohol content of a man Dean's size to .15, a level that causes serious
    impairment, including slurred speech and reduced motor function, unless
    the drinker has developed a high alcohol tolerance. It is nearly twice
    the legal driving limit in the United States.
    "

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  72. I went to supernaturalwiki.com as you suggested.
    I KNOW you are right by "human" standards. It just seems like Dean is NEVER impaired. I KNOW you are right.
    But in the last episode Dean "saw" the demon/hunter. When I have had two drinks I don't really notice things that are sort of off. I guess I am using my once-a-week type of drinker for what I notice around me.
    Somebody else quoted somewhere in this thread said Gamble (?) said these guys were Heroes and they don't have regular human limitations (consider the number of times they have been thrown into walls: they should have back injuries or brain damage by now - talk about concussion syndrome).
    In fanfic both Sam and Dean have multiple scars and old breaks. Because believe it or not fanfic is more realistic than SHOW.
    So Martin I will NOT disagree with youin reality. In reality Dean would be a drooling stumbling person due to head injuries/limb injuries/alcohol and let's not talk about the number of times he's been shot. Osteoarthritis, baby.
    It's just that I think that Dean's drinking alcohol is no different than physical injury.
    But in reality YOU are right.

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