Whats the point of showing us the brothers all sweet with each other after breaking their relationship into little pieces in the last season and a half, Carver? Why are these two even hunting together any more after what was said at the end of the last two or three episodes? X What you made Sam say to Dean in the last episode can't be ignored, but of course now that we have a ghost in the useless bunker and we get to see the ghostfacers and Snookie, that should take our minds off what you did to the marvellous brothers we used to have; those who would save each other at any cost!
Not at the cost of Sam no , if people seriously believe it was Sam's words that damaged this relationship then they have been living far too long in Dean,s view .
It's not Sam's words that have ruined their relationship. They were fine at the end of season 7. The one to ruin it has been Carver from s8 onwards, and no-one else. X Both brothers have said and done bad and good things. Both have stuff to to forgive and have forgiven. Neither is a saint nor a devil! x I love them both and I'm not going to blame the characters for the crappy writing.
The basis of the show is that these two brothers care obsessively for each other, be that as unhealthy as you will, and would do anything to save the other. Even with all the bad moments between them, that should never change.
AMEN, that is just the way I feel. To keep from pulling my hair out I have made season 8 forward Carver's SPN and have divorced it from the SPN that I have loved for 7 years. Canon means nothing to the show now, so I don't think about what has gone before.
But it has changed and if we have reached a point in the 'brothers' relationship where Dean can do that to Sam and still emerge the victim because of the bias of alot of the fandom then I can not honestly for me personally say that that brothers relationship right now is worth it.
Your method is probably the best way of watching the show now. x Up until S7, SPN was, with the occasional glitch, certain in its emphasis of the brothers' close bond, and in more or less keeping to canon.
From S8 onwards, it's another show, and if one can watch without getting annoyed with these writers, that's surely the best way to go.:)
If you listen to fandom , you will go crazy. I don't care what others may say. I make up my own mind, and I love Sam even more when they speak out against him. x However, if we follow the actual canon, you're correct in saying that the brothers' relationship has changed, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it lying down. x Sam was demonized for not looking for Dean because it was such a non-Sam thing to do. Even if Sam had wanted to leave hunting and live a normal life,( a just aspiration ) , the fact the writers threw him to the dogs by not even allowing him to TRY and look for Dean, blackened his character and gave a juicy excuse to those fans who already didn't like him to go all out and criticize. x I understand your POV, but for me the brothers belong together although I really don't see how this latest blow-up can be smoothed over without leaving consequences.
I can tolerate the Ghostfacers and Becky as these are actual parodies. Charlie is fanservice to Felicia Day fans tough, not a parody but a Superhero-version of herself...god even the thought of that character makes me angry
Well, this does confirm that Snookie can't act. However, having her as a crossroads demon is pretty funny and marginally acceptable. This could actually be a pretty funny on-going gag...
I am so psyched to see what all of this is actually going to play out as, especially snooki. Shes a horrible actress, but its hilarious that she agreed to be in an episode as a demon (from what i'm assuming)
I wonder which episodes were in it. Supernatural CW facebook has named it 'Captives Clip', but they couldn't all be in one ep, I guess 14 and 15 (Ghostfacers)?!
The comic theme of it was totally uncool in current circumstances.
Dean emerged the "victim" b/c Sam's dialogue was awful. He didn't just condemn Dean for this one particular incident; he condemned Dean, in general. He rebuked the whole of "Dean," IMO. And Carver stomped all over Kripke's message that "family came before the hunt." This last conversation was so awful that I honestly don't see why the two are staying together, and I am a diehard "brother" fan. Why is Sam still there? Why is Dean there? That said, like Isle, my main beef is w/the writers and Carver. I don't care for Carver's vision for the brothers or the show.
Dialogue it would not of mattered how he said it or what he said . Of course the writers are partly the issue but the fandom is not stupid or naive , it has to take some responsibilty for how Sam is treated. How many times as Dean sat there and rebuked Sam , said awful cruel things to him and yet somehow Sam deserved it , Dean has a right to be angry . Sam needs to earn Dean's trust back , and I could go on. Esp after season 4 . Dean emerges as the victim every time because Sam is treated badly all round.
I don't have a problem with the Day, but when I see an ep is going to have Charlie I know she will have to rescue one or both Winchesters and tell them how dumb they are.
If people could get past Sam nearly beating Dean to death and killing a nurse, then surely Sam trying to make sure Dean doesn't violate his consent again is somewhat small fry.
I don't think Sam's dialogue would have made a difference. Dean gets a ton of POV and sympathy in the writing. Sam generally gets some pep talks and no POV. He's a stranger in some ways, and has been for years now.
I thought the episode showed why Sam is still there, that he still cares about Dean. He was in a panic when he learned Dean had been drugged.
Kripke's message went out the window when Dean was throttled and then told to "suck it up, princess." I never believed in family on this show again.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as dismissive of people who were upset by the last episode. I guess sometimes I have heard people talking about destruction of the brother relationship for such a long time (I think going on 5-6 years now) that sometimes I become numb to it. I do understand why people were upset and I hope the show can get the writing in place to repair it.
Sam and Dean have each lifted their hands to each other; Dean more than Sam, but I have no intention of playing 'who has been the worst or best brother' game.
I understand perfectly why Dean did what he did. His boundless love for his younger brother made him carry out an action which is definitely to be censored, but which was the only option Dean had at the time. Or perhaps it would have been better killing off Sam, and letting someone else be his hunting partner?
Dean has these supernatural solutions at hand, which ordinary humans don't, so I can't see why they can't be used to keep each other safe. X As for those who watch Supernatural, the majority do so specifically for the brothers' bond, especially those who have watched from the beginning, and have been caught up in the uniqueness of the brothers. X I'm afraid I don't share your problems with Castiel. He should have been paid off ages ago. Even the most rabid fan of his can see that he has no role at all on the show. He is only there for fan service, nothing else.
Like I told Sharonally, it would have mattered to me and many other bi-bro fans from the comments I'm reading.
I have no idea why Sam is still hanging around b/c he can care about Dean from afar. Hanging out in Dean's face but "not being his brother" seems kind of pointless and deliberately cruel to me.
I disagree that family message went out the window in S4. To me, Carver has done irreparable damage to the brothers and their relationship.
I imagine that messed up some of their plans, but Kripke struggled (to me anyway) even after this season, so I think it was just him losing most of his focus on what worked in the first two seasons. The first episode of season 3 really sets a bad tone, in my opinion.
I'm not saying it's about who is better or worse, I'm saying that Dean was never allowed to feel any reaction about what was done to him. The writing just flat out refused. At least Sam is able to vent, although the writing is murky.
Fan service is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen people dismiss Dean/Sam brother moments as fan service. I don't think that's true, of course.
I don't think he just cares about Dean - I think he wants to work with him and help him. He was concerned about him in this episode.
The writing in their confrontations is hard and cold, but the rest of the time, he seemed to more a little more amiable.
I respect your opinion. For me, the brother relationship has never been the same since season 4. I am invested now, which I wasn't in season 6 or a lot of 7, but it's never been the same.
I love whats happening and I love how the show is going. I have been excited over Season 9 episodes and love them all. I think Jeremy Carver is doing a great job with the show and where its going. This is my fav show of all time and I think the cast and crew is doing a fantastic job. This season has been one of the best. Good Job to all of you I really am impressed. Also for everyone who is negative there are 10 people who are positive and love it
Wow I really like this and it had to change after 9 seasons I have to admit I am at the point where I want to see them get back together I love that it changed alittle It needed to and it ll be even better when they get back together on the same team in every way and they will. It is understandable that Sam is mad but now they do need to get together. However I loved this season and it makes it more realistic that Sam would be mad, It wouldnt have seemed right if he didnt react to those major decisions. They are not little decisions that have no consequences. Kevin got killed because of them and Sam may not be the same either so yes he should be mad but he needs to understand. THis is a great season
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Whats the point of showing us the brothers all sweet with each other after breaking their relationship into little pieces in the last season and a half, Carver?
ReplyDeleteWhy are these two even hunting together any more after what was said at the end of the last two or three episodes?
X
What you made Sam say to Dean in the last episode can't be ignored, but of course now that we have a ghost in the useless bunker and we get to see the ghostfacers and Snookie, that should take our minds off what you did to the marvellous brothers we used to have; those who would save each other at any cost!
Not at the cost of Sam no , if people seriously believe it was Sam's words that damaged this relationship then they have been living far too long in Dean,s view .
ReplyDeleteIt's not Sam's words that have ruined their relationship. They were fine
ReplyDeleteat the end of season 7. The one to ruin it has been Carver from s8 onwards, and no-one
else.
X
Both brothers have said and done bad and good things.
Both have stuff to to forgive and have forgiven. Neither is a saint nor a devil!
x
I love them both and I'm not going to blame the characters for the crappy writing.
The basis of the show is that these two brothers care obsessively for each other, be that as unhealthy as you will, and would do anything to save the other.
Even with all the bad moments between them, that should never change.
AMEN, that is just the way I feel. To keep from pulling my hair out I have made season 8 forward Carver's SPN and have divorced it from the SPN that I have loved for 7 years. Canon means nothing to the show now, so I don't think about what has gone before.
ReplyDeleteBut it has changed and if we have reached a point in the 'brothers' relationship where Dean can do that to Sam and still emerge the victim because of the bias of alot of the fandom then I can not honestly for me personally say that that brothers relationship right now is worth it.
ReplyDeleteLOL at "What is this? An intervention?" This looks good! I can't wait for the rest of the season.
ReplyDeleteAnd Ghostfacers! They're actually coming back for real.
Your method is probably the best way of watching the show now.
ReplyDeletex
Up until S7, SPN was, with the occasional glitch, certain in its emphasis of the brothers' close bond, and in more or less keeping to canon.
From S8 onwards, it's another show, and if one can watch without getting annoyed with these writers, that's surely the best way to go.:)
If you listen to fandom , you will go crazy.
ReplyDeleteI don't care what others may say. I make up my own mind, and I love Sam even more when they speak out against him.
x
However, if we follow the actual canon, you're correct in saying that the brothers' relationship has changed, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it lying down.
x
Sam was demonized for not looking for Dean because it was such a non-Sam thing to do.
Even if Sam had wanted to leave hunting and live a normal life,( a just aspiration ) , the fact the writers threw him to the dogs by not even allowing him to TRY and look for Dean, blackened his character and gave a juicy excuse to those fans who already didn't like him to go all out and criticize.
x
I understand your POV, but for me the brothers belong together although I really don't see how this latest blow-up can be smoothed over without leaving consequences.
Looks good, now I know where they set video of Jared playing the tiny violin came from. The Ghost thing is interesting.
ReplyDeleteGhostfacers & Charlie are both a big minus for me.
ReplyDeleteI can tolerate the Ghostfacers and Becky as these are actual parodies. Charlie is fanservice to Felicia Day fans tough, not a parody but a Superhero-version of herself...god even the thought of that character makes me angry
ReplyDeleteWell, this does confirm that Snookie can't act. However, having her as a crossroads demon is pretty funny and marginally acceptable. This could actually be a pretty funny on-going gag...
ReplyDeleteI am so psyched to see what all of this is actually going to play out as, especially snooki. Shes a horrible actress, but its hilarious that she agreed to be in an episode as a demon (from what i'm assuming)
ReplyDeleteI wonder which episodes were in it. Supernatural CW facebook has named it 'Captives Clip', but they couldn't all be in one ep, I guess 14 and 15 (Ghostfacers)?!
ReplyDeleteThe comic theme of it was totally uncool in current circumstances.
Maybe Carver is a real life demon?
ReplyDeleteha, I can get on board with that.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should think about doing a 13-15 ep season and have eps that make sense.
ReplyDeleteI do like Sam, but I don't think I can forgive the writers for making Sam not even look for Dean.
ReplyDeleteDean emerged the "victim" b/c Sam's dialogue was awful. He didn't just condemn Dean for this one particular incident; he condemned Dean, in general. He rebuked the whole of "Dean," IMO. And Carver stomped all over Kripke's message that "family came before the hunt."
ReplyDeleteThis last conversation was so awful that I honestly don't see why the two are staying together, and I am a diehard "brother" fan. Why is Sam still there? Why is Dean there?
That said, like Isle, my main beef is w/the writers and Carver. I don't care for Carver's vision for the brothers or the show.
Dialogue it would not of mattered how he said it or what he said . Of course the writers are partly the issue but the fandom is not stupid or naive , it has to take some responsibilty for how Sam is treated. How many times as Dean sat there and rebuked Sam , said awful cruel things to him and yet somehow Sam deserved it , Dean has a right to be angry . Sam needs to earn Dean's trust back , and I could go on. Esp after season 4 . Dean emerges as the victim every time because Sam is treated badly all round.
ReplyDeleteShe's apparently a fan of the show.
ReplyDeleteBeen saying the same thing about Charlie/Felicia Day since the introduction of that annoying character.
ReplyDeleteNot even the demons would tolerate that kind of evil.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with the Day, but when I see an ep is going to have Charlie I know she will have to rescue one or both Winchesters and tell them how dumb they are.
ReplyDeleteFor some, it wouldn't have mattered, but it would have mattered a great deal to me and other bi-bro fans who are disappointed.
ReplyDeleteIf people could get past Sam nearly beating Dean to death and killing a nurse, then surely Sam trying to make sure Dean doesn't violate his consent again is somewhat small fry.
ReplyDeleteCanon hasn't meant anything to the show since somewhere in season 4.
ReplyDeleteBecky is a very vile parody and a toxic one. I think the show took it way too far with her.
ReplyDeleteIf season 3 is any indication, that isn't very easy.
ReplyDeleteThe promo is for casual viewers. Most of them aren't going to care about what happened with Sam and Dean.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Sam's dialogue would have made a difference. Dean gets a ton of POV and sympathy in the writing. Sam generally gets some pep talks and no POV. He's a stranger in some ways, and has been for years now.
ReplyDeleteI thought the episode showed why Sam is still there, that he still cares about Dean. He was in a panic when he learned Dean had been drugged.
Kripke's message went out the window when Dean was throttled and then told to "suck it up, princess." I never believed in family on this show again.
That one Ghostfacer with the short dark hair never ages.
ReplyDeleteI was probably most interested in the scene where they're both tasered when they walk in. I'm surprised more people/demons/etc. never tried that.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as dismissive of people who were upset by the last episode. I guess sometimes I have heard people talking about destruction of the brother relationship for such a long time (I think going on 5-6 years now) that sometimes I become numb to it. I do understand why people were upset and I hope the show can get the writing in place to repair it.
ReplyDeleteThey did not know ahead of time that a union would mess the season up. If they knew the writers could get to work on a story without the fillers.
ReplyDeleteSam and Dean have each lifted their hands to each other; Dean more than Sam, but I have no intention of playing 'who has been the worst or best brother' game.
ReplyDeleteI understand perfectly why Dean did what he did.
His boundless love for his younger brother made him carry out an action which is definitely to be censored, but which was the only option Dean had at the time.
Or perhaps it would have been better killing off Sam, and letting someone else be his hunting partner?
Dean has these supernatural solutions at hand, which ordinary humans don't, so I can't see why they can't be used to keep each other safe.
X
As for those who watch Supernatural, the majority do so specifically for the brothers' bond, especially those who have watched from the beginning, and have been caught up in the uniqueness of the brothers.
X
I'm afraid I don't share your problems with Castiel.
He should have been paid off ages ago. Even the most rabid fan of his can see that he has no role at all on the show. He is only there for fan service, nothing else.
Like I told Sharonally, it would have mattered to me and many other bi-bro fans from the comments I'm reading.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why Sam is still hanging around b/c he can care about Dean from afar. Hanging out in Dean's face but "not being his brother" seems kind of pointless and deliberately cruel to me.
I disagree that family message went out the window in S4. To me, Carver has done irreparable damage to the brothers and their relationship.
I imagine that messed up some of their plans, but Kripke struggled (to me anyway) even after this season, so I think it was just him losing most of his focus on what worked in the first two seasons. The first episode of season 3 really sets a bad tone, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying it's about who is better or worse, I'm saying that Dean was never allowed to feel any reaction about what was done to him. The writing just flat out refused. At least Sam is able to vent, although the writing is murky.
ReplyDeleteFan service is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen people dismiss Dean/Sam brother moments as fan service. I don't think that's true, of course.
I don't think he just cares about Dean - I think he wants to work with him and help him. He was concerned about him in this episode.
ReplyDeleteThe writing in their confrontations is hard and cold, but the rest of the time, he seemed to more a little more amiable.
I respect your opinion. For me, the brother relationship has never been the same since season 4. I am invested now, which I wasn't in season 6 or a lot of 7, but it's never been the same.
I love whats happening and I love how the show is going. I have been excited over Season 9 episodes and love them all. I think Jeremy Carver is doing a great job with the show and where its going. This is my fav show of all time and I think the cast and crew is doing a fantastic job. This season has been one of the best. Good Job to all of you I really am impressed. Also for everyone who is negative there are 10 people who are positive and love it
ReplyDeleteWow I really like this and it had to change after 9 seasons I have to admit I am at the point where I want to see them get back together I love that it changed alittle It needed to and it ll be even better when they get back together on the same team in every way and they will. It is understandable that Sam is mad but now they do need to get together. However I loved this season and it makes it more realistic that Sam would be mad, It wouldnt have seemed right if he didnt react to those major decisions. They are not little decisions that have no consequences. Kevin got killed because of them and Sam may not be the same either so yes he should be mad but he needs to understand. THis is a great season
ReplyDelete