CJ, The ODI and guest Bradley debate on the issues of Shipping and does it help to save shows from being cancelled. They also discuss The Walking Dead, The Following, Blacklist and more.
Welcome to Spoiler TV's official podcast. This week we discuss the latest episodes of TV and CJ brings back the weekly debate. This weeks debate is all about shipping. Can the ships / relationships in a show help to keep a show on air and stop it from being cancelled?
Share your thoughts in the comments below or even give me a tweet (CJ Twitter below)
Share your thoughts in the comments below or even give me a tweet (CJ Twitter below)
Please enjoy and follow us all on our Facebook page, Twitter or email us at cjsonic@spoilertv.com
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@STV_Podcast | @TheODI | @CJSonic | @AdDHarris |
Podcast recorded on Sunday 16th Feb 2014
0.00 - Introduction / Site News / Cancellations
0.08 - The Walking Dead
0.22 - The Following
0.38 - Person of Interest / Blacklist & more
0.56 - Debate: Do ships/shipping help to stop shows from being cancelled
1.23 - End
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No.
ReplyDeleteVary Rarely.
ReplyDeleteNot unless they could find a way to somehow make money off the ship. So in other words, no.
ReplyDeletea... NO
ReplyDeleteNo, only viewers do, and the "right" viewers at that.
ReplyDeleteWow, i wanted to say a straight out NO...but now thinking about it. I think it depends on the Show itself. But even if there were plenty of shippers for a show that was in danger of being cancelled it wouldn't help. Ratings count. Not shippers. At the end of the day, the writers are going to do w/e feels right to them, not the fans. (regardless if you think writers are pleasuring their fans, most times they aren't.) I mean if every shipper out there had their way. There wouldn't be ANY Shows. So No idt shipping helps save a show at all.
ReplyDeleteIf they did I think Beauty & The Beast would be a mega hit by now, and so New Girl; from what I've seen shippings don't save shows. The only show I've seen rise from being borderline to hit is Scandal and that was for all the momentum it got when Fitz was shot. The slogan "Who shot the president?" is very attractive for new viewers and as we know Scandal became a big hit.
ReplyDeleteNew Girl while in no danger of being cancelled, saw no benefit from the Nick/Jess pairing which the fans have been asking since season 1. OUAT also didn't see any major bump when it was advirtised that Emma and Hook would kiss. Gossip Girl got killed by doing too many shipping and getting all twisty and nonsensical.
The ratings never rose for shippings, it seems ratings rises are mostly seen when the storylines are improved
hell no, writers who focus only on ships kill the shows themselves
ReplyDeleteNo, good writing does. Many shows make the huge mistake of making a popular ship the main focus of a show, and don't get me started on love triangles/squares.. alienates half of the fans and I'm personally not a fan since I think if you're going to sell the 'epic romance' on TV, two people should be so madly in love they wouldn't be thinking about another person.
ReplyDeleteNo. Honestly, shipping does more harm than good in certain TV shows.. *cough TVD *cough.
ReplyDeleteI think writers/producers are starting to realize that there is an audience that can sometimes be rabid about shipping and they play into it. I'm not so sure it can save a show because while that audience is vocal and social media savvy, its usually a small percentage of the total audience for the show. So if the show is in trouble they can scream as loud as they want, the question is whether it translates into ratings and advertising dollars. I'm not against shipping in general as long as its a part of a cohesive story line and done in a smart, intelligent way.
ReplyDeleteI know personally I wanted to watch OUAT less, not more, when they started doing all the shipping/love triangle stuff. So I think it can definitely hurt the show - it's the writing that saves shows.
ReplyDeletenot really, look at the Secret Circle... I loved the show, but we dont have that power
ReplyDeleteA big fat no. I'm sick of all that shipping crap. Give me a good storyline, good characters and I don't care who is with who, the show will be worth watching. The only way shipping can help a show from being cancelled is if enough people are talking about the ships or fighting about them. Some networks care more about fans talking on social media more than how many people are actually watching the show.
ReplyDeleteHey what does ships or shipping mean
ReplyDeleteNo, I don´t think it does. But it is an interesting question. What does save a show? I´m thinking of a show like The Killing...what saved The Killing? It wasn´t the number of viewers and it wasn´t shipping. I´m happy that they took the time to make a prober end for Linden and Holder, but I am also puzzled.
ReplyDeleteWhen fans 'ship' a couple, it means relationship. Shipping is wanting a certain couple/pairing together on a show. Those who root for a certain couple to be together are called 'shippers'. Hope this answers your question.
ReplyDeleteIn the end only ratings can really save a show, ships don't mean anything. Shippers may be loud with their love but are often in reality they the minority of the audience and most casual viewers aren't as invested.
ReplyDeleteThe Killing is a strange one, I think what saved it from its first cancellation was AMC having gaps in its schedule. As for Netflix picking it up well they don't release viewing figures/data but maybe the previous seasons do well with its subscribers.
ReplyDeleteEvery so often you get shows which in theory should be cancelled survive against the odds.
I think the only place shipping makes a difference is online on certain sites where either like-minded shippers gather and big up their ship, or opposing shippers gather and war. If networks pay any attention to either of those situations, more fool them imo!
ReplyDeleteThe thing that might have helped Awake wasn't ships... it would have been getting away from NBC.
ReplyDeleteI will never be over how Awake was mishandled! I totally agree it didn't belong on NBC, especially not during that particular TV season.
ReplyDeleteYes, you might be right about why Netflix picked it up. I´m just glad they did and don´t spend a lot of time wondering why. It´s a mystery. Just can´t wait to watch the last few episodes.
ReplyDeleteShipping perhaps not per se. BUT I think that if writers and cast create a pair good enough to ship, people will watch to follow these characters.
ReplyDeleteDitto! I have this exact problem with at least one of my shows. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteNo. In fact, rabid ship fans have spoiled my enjoyment of some of a shows characters!
ReplyDeleteI don't know for sure what motivates writers and showrunners these days, but shipping is certainly great fodder for blogs and fansites.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the song at 55:20? :D It's sound familiar, but i can't remember it!!!
ReplyDeleteShipping may help a show stay afloat in an indirect way. Since, for some reason beyond my comprehension, people are a hundred times more interesting in romantic relationships than any other aspect of TV shows, and those spark far more heated discussion than any other topic (have you SEEN ship wars?), it seems they can get the show front and center in a sense. If shows like Glee and TVD didn't have fans ripping into each other about which ships are better all over the internet, and always asking Ausiello, Kristin and all of those questions like "When are we going to get another Stelena moment???!!!", I don't think they would be as big as they are. Because in the end, "there's no such thing as bad publicity." The more noise about a certain show, the better for it. However, of course this depends on whether the shipping gets noticed and draws people to the show. I know I think part of Nikita's failure on The CW, for example, is the lack of love triangles and romantic competition. Yes, you had Nikita and Michael as the main couple but they weren't in any danger, despite vague hints of Owen and Ryan having feelings for Nikita. If the show had gone the route some predicted in the first season - turning the main trio of Nikita, Michael and Alex into a triangle - it would've sucked, but ironically I think the ratings would've been better because CW-esque shippers would've had a reason to watch and been able to tear each other's hair out over which ship is better. *eyeroll*
ReplyDeleteSo in short: I think they can help, but the equation isn't as simple as shipping -> not being cancelled. If anything, it's: shipping -> more buzz and publicity for the show -> higher ratings -> not being cancelled.
I know shippers can make me like a certain couple less than I otherwise would have, because I'm sick of seeing it everywhere. For example, I'm not opposed to the idea of Oliver and Felicity being together on Arrow, but every time you look at their Facebook page a bunch of comments are like "When are Oliver and Felicity going to get together already?" (I mean comments on posts that have nothing to do with the subject, of course). Whenever I search clips from an Arrow episode on YouTube, the search results start with 17 different videos titled "Oliver and Felicity scenes". It grates that people are so obsessed with these relationships. It seems some of them only even watch the shows for that aspect.
ReplyDeleteIt's especially grating how two characters can just glance at each other for 2 seconds and the internet already explodes with "OMG, did you see that? They're my new OTP! OMG THEY'RE SO EPIC!". Ugh. It's impossible for a male character and a female character (or, really, two male characters, considering all the slash out there) to have an interaction without people immediately interpreting it as romance.
ReplyDeleteActually, it doesn't even take two characters glancing at each other. Near the end of Nikita's first season, a rabid fanbase appeared for "Olex" - Owen and Alex - two characters that had never MET. That didn't stop the shippers from shouting all over the internet about how the characters are perfect for each other and need to get together. Eventually, the Nikita writers wimped the hell out, killed off the character Alex had an actual developed (for nearly 2 seasons) romance with, and threw together some ridiculously convoluted last-minute storyline so Alex and Owen can seemingly end up together. It was one of the most laughably blatant cases of pandering to shippers I've ever seen.
Honestly, sometimes I long to see a show about a special species of humans that are all asexual and aromantic. Maybe then we'd get to focus on the actual plot, as well as platonic relationships (which I usually find more enjoyable to watch than romantic ones, perhaps because they're not so littered with cliches).
I hate how love is turned into some kind of "playing field" on TV, with two characters "competing" over the heart of a third one. Characters act with zero dignity, change their minds every two seconds, lead others on and whatnot. Obviously, the ethical thing to do when you're torn between two people is not to pursue a relationship with EITHER of them until you figure your shit out - but if TV characters acted respectably, we wouldn't have DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!! So of course everyone acts like hormonal teenagers. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on the show. Sometimes the fans shipping characters together seems to work fine but when the writers of the show do it it becomes a problem. The writers need to know their characters and when shows get too bogged down with everyone hooking up wither everyone else often times it seems like the plot goes lost (TVD is an example of this - five years of Elena see-sawing between two brothers has taken over the entire show).
ReplyDeleteI think the ships/love triangles are killing OUAT. Especially because the show used to be about family, good vs evil and true love (not relationship drama or contrived romantic stuff).
ReplyDeletePersonally I'm tired of the media focusing so much on the romance or worse making bait articles that pit fans against each other.
ReplyDeleteThis. I don't care if Oliver sleeps with Felicity, Sara, Laurel or some random woman but I don't want the romance to take over the show.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the love triangle took over TVD until Kevin Williamson left. The love triangle has always been important but during S1-S3 (first half) there were other storylines and the secondary characters matter.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if killing is the right word, but it wouldn't hurt to step back a little, or if you are going to embrace couple drama then they should work on that to make it better
ReplyDeleteI think it can help a little but it won't save a show. Also romance helps creating buzz. For example I have seen that a lot of people have started watching Revolution or at least got curious about it when the Charloe ship started getting buzz.
ReplyDeleteYeah, in Season 1 Elena & Stefan were together and Damon was still obsessed with Katherine so it didn't really get started until Season 2 when Katherine rejected Damon and Damon decided to transfer his feelings onto Elena but at this point it's totally taken over the show. The first two seasons had more focus on the other characters - Matt/Tyler (who had no scenes together in Season 4 - their friendship vanished and only returned once Tyler & Caroline broke up in Season 5), Bonnie was treated like an actual character and not so much a plot-device, Jeremy was actually a character not just there, etc...
ReplyDeleteI don't think Damon "transfered" his feelings but I agree with the rest. The show used to have friendships and a lot of non romantic scenes during the first three seasons.
ReplyDeleteNo it usually works the other way around. Shipping kills shows.
ReplyDeleteI agree. But nothing can be done about it. Its the internet era. Social media, blogs and podcasts have opened up the world for audience to communicate with actors and creators and demand what they like. Creators should have the gumption to stick to their guns and tell the story they want to tell, which some of them don't have especially on CW network.
ReplyDeleteI have always felt the vague answers to please every fandom from the creators are the reason most of the ship wars happen.
I don't mind shippers. I have learned to navigate the waters and find boards where I can discuss my show without bias. Thats why I love spoiler tv less rabid fans. What I hate is when creators alter the story to placate every fandom.
ReplyDeleteyup it was touch indeed. Shame the intro was the best thing about it
ReplyDeletePersonally, it's no. because I've never been invested in ships or shipping. Mostly because ever since I've been trying to do it, ships I like never happen, they happen then one dies or the writers screw it up or they break up, one character dies before he/she can say they want to be with the other person, blah blah ... SOMETHING WILL KILL IT. So, no, I don't find it saves a show for me. Mostly because if they do a ship, it's one that I HATE anyway.
ReplyDeleteCurrently Arrow is the only show I watch which is heavy on shipping...and I certainly don't watch it for the love triangle of the week.
ReplyDeleteGrimm, White Collar, Vikings, Sherlock - those are all shows in which shipping isn't the focus at all, which is exactly why I like them. It makes them less predictable.
True. :)
ReplyDeleteNo, only ratings count, live with it.
ReplyDeleteBig..NO! Good writing save shows! Ships and shipping just could more easily dragged a show to death..of course, it's depend on the show..the truth is when a show start to focus more on the ships than the history, the writers and the show have a BIG problem.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the show. If the shipping is strong for one couple, and if the show is done well, yes. But if its mainly shipping wars, No. coz people get angry and leave the show if their ship doesnt happen, coz there that petty. especially if they constantly fight. The Vampire Diaries come to mind.
ReplyDeleteBut for some shows the shipping keeps the show alive, but only for a little bit longer.
I tend to feel ships take a mediocre show (especially early season 1) and help it last longer. I stay on to see where things are headed and sometimes the show hits its stride. Some shows need to hold onto people until the set-up has occurred and then it takes off in popularity. So I don't think it saves a show from ruination but I think it can keep people watching longer.
ReplyDeleteNo. Shipping doesn't save the show. But shipping keeps the show in the fore front of media. There are more articles and more mentions and more interviews if shipping is involved. So that is an advantage and they gain some new viewers out of that. But if the story, writing and ratings are not good nothing is going to help a show.
ReplyDeleteI feel like it's a mixed bag. The most important thing is good writing, but I'll admit that having a couple I cheer for definitely can make me more eager to tune in the next week to see what happens and ratings are what matter. I like a good story too, but most of the shows that are my favorites have a romance worked into them in one way or another. It can work against them though, as I've liked shows and then been completely turned off when they broke up a couple and stuck the former members with other people I disliked and couldn't see any chemistry with.
ReplyDeleteA ship in itself cannot save a show. Good characters AND original storylines are far more important. If you have those then you can throw in romance but WRITING IS EVERYTHING.
ReplyDelete