Unlike last week’s episode, which I had to watch three times in order to get a mangled mythology around angels and reapers straight in my head, this week’s episode was cleaner and moved along smoothly. But I still had to watch it an extra time to nail down what happened because I got bored about halfway through and started playing a word game on my phone.
The Highlights
We start off with black-and-white flashbacks of two men of letters from the 1930s, which apparently is when the batcave was built. They are James Haggerty, a seasoned, cynical pro (presumably the Dean in this story), and Peter Jenkins, a younger rookie excited about becoming a man of letters (presumably Charlie).They’re visited by Dorothy, a hunter straight back from Oz, who is the daughter of a man of letters and the author of the Oz books. Dorothy is looking for help in killing her captured witch. The witch escapes and kills Jenkins/Charlie, and Dorothy and the witch are magically bound together in a gooey liquid in a jar, which is accidentally let free decades later by Sam and Dean.
Charlie, who is brought in as IT support to turn a cool-looking ‘50s sci-fi looking computer into an angel locator, teams up with Dean, dies, is brought back to life by Zeke, and runs off to Oz with Dorothy after slaying the witch with the stiletto heal of the ruby shoe.
The Good
The idea was cool! Dorothy was a hunter. Ha! While an episode so far into the fairytale realm has a danger of coming across as hokey, making Dorothy a hunter from a previous era and looping in the Men of Letters bunker connection worked. The actress who played the role of Dorothy delivered her performance with the right amount of hunter-seriousness to ground the story. Supernatural has delved into bizarre alt realities before, so that part didn’t feel too off to me.Bringing Crowley into the mix was a good move. “Love your work!” Awesome line. While the episode stopped short in making clear a connection between demons and witches (season 4 mythology in which we learned witches get their powers from demons), the fact that the witch seemed to be reporting in to Crowley makes me give Robbie Thompson, the writer of this episode, the benefit of the doubt and assume that connection was intended.
I thought the duotone flashbacks to the '30s when Men of Letters were building the complex worked very well. It was nice to learn more about the history of the place – and, oh, and we learned there’s a garage where Baby is being well cared for!
Crowley refers to Sam and Dean as the scarecrow and the tin man. Are we supposed to infer that he thinks one doesn’t have a heart and one doesn’t have a brain?
We saw Sam’s room! And we learned that he hasn’t really moved in yet. This contrasts well to what we’ve seen of Dean, who has been nesting since last season and cooking up a storm. I’ll admit, I’ve done what Sam’s done before – started a job that I always considered a temp one, and three years later, still hadn’t decorated my work area. This isn’t going to end well. Dean considers sharing the bunkers with Sam home – the best they’re ever going to get – and Sam still considers hunting a temp job.
Nice music picked for the ending, with had Dorothy and Charlie setting out into the magical world of Oz to the tune of AC/DC’s “For Those About to Rock.”
The Bad
Charlie has come across as likeable to me in the past, but all of her talk about being wanting more magic in her job felt whiney to me. It’s called a job. Most people have them, and most people’s jobs don’t include magical quests. Which brings me to the next point. This episode was written by a writer who seems to have all but given up writing Sam and Dean (he does write Charlie and Dean though) and appears bored with Sam and Dean’s non-magical life of hunting things and saving people. Instead he keeps focusing on Charlie and magical fairies and worlds like Oz. Channel much?Why is this a problem if the occasional episode focuses less on Sam and Dean and more on other characters and worlds? Because this isn’t occasional anymore, and it’s not just Thompson. And because Sam and Dean carry this show. If the writers become bored writing for Sam and Dean, we get bored watching what they write for Sam and Dean. That’s how it works.
Next issue under the “Bad” heading is that this is the second consecutive episode in which one of Dean’s best friends died and he had to use Zeke to heal her, making Zeke weaker and prolonging the time Zeke will stay in Sam and continue whatever leaching he’s doing while in there. While there are a lot of deaths on SPN, people that important to the Winchesters don’t really die that frequently, so this felt like a heavy-handed way of shifting Dean’s actions away from choice. The set up in the season’s premiere, which showed Sam and Dean viewing death and resurrection differently, felt like an organic source to the conflict. Showing Dean being forced down a path, rather than choosing it, weakens the story.
Next, there are occasional episodes in which everything seems a little over exaggerated. It's not just one actor over-acting, it's all of them, which leads me to think it's the directing. This was one of them. Whenever this happens, it always bugs me because the dialogue doesn't flow naturally and I'm pulls me out of the moment.
Charlie has an annoying habit of turning away from Sam and talking mostly to Dean when she’s supposed to be talking to both of them. Frankly, unless Dean and Charlie are in a much more intimate relationship than what has been suggested, it’s inappropriate and just rude. I’m not sure I would have been as nice to Charlie as Sam was to her if someone was being that rude to me.
Finally, why is a powerful angel like Zeke talking like Dean is his boss? They started this partnership as a mutually beneficial arrangement, but now Zeke is letting Dean make the big decisions, and answering with “as you wish.” Last week’s Zeke, who set down some ground rules with Cas, seemed more realistic.
The “Huh?”
Dorothy’s line that you’re not a hunter until you’ve died at least once and come back felt like a violation of canon for me, considering that in the earlier seasons, people weren't routinely brought back from the dead. Other than through demon deals, it was unheard of prior to the pre-apocalypse arrival of angels.The Speculation
Did anyone else get the feeling that Crowley’s request to stretch his legs was a trick that we’ll see come back on Sam and Dean later?What are your thoughts on this episode? Hit or miss? As a note, I'm not expecting to have much TV time next week, so you probably won't get a review from me for the next episode.




I said alot in the other review so I won't repeat everything. I like this episode, Dorothy is very modernised but its cool by me and Charlie was deserving of her magical quest.
ReplyDeleteI was abit squeamish when Crowley wanted to stretch his legs, I thought keep your eyes on him for your dear lives!. I don't see he did anything, everything was trapped but how that would not surprise me if he managed to send for help.
On a sidenote I wonder if Crowley will break the news to Sam about Zeke?. I said alot about Zeke already especially the last post, so onto other things for now.
I think Crowley is actually taking the human thing really hard and I think he will accidently show his emotions to the boys or if anyone, Sam because of the interaction they had with the trial.
I'm glad we got to see Sam's room. I heard that we were suppose to hear Sam's feelings to Dorothy, I don't know how accurate that is but in my opinion we kinda did in a factual ways. Rather than saying his feelings like Dean he used it factually which is insight even though we may know already.
So Dean things just get harder!. He really took some risks of healing Charlie and saying Zeke's name but that's what its all about. Those risks had saved Cas and Charlie, even though it will take Sam longer to heal I can see where Dean is from. He's breaking the lifespan code (bringing back) but its not new and those are people that did something for the Winchesters.
I don't think Dean told Cas what going on but he must of known it was temporary. Dean doing well since he have no one to lean on.
I like this episode and I love the ending with the AC/DC
A miss for me because I find ultra perky ‘genius’ Charlie to be annoying and I hope she stays in Oz. I prefer my characters with flaws a la Sam n Dean. (BTW I’m not liking the dumbing down of Dean these days.) And the Zeke inside Sam story is already boring. Is Zeke going to spring someone back to life every week? Death is now totally meaningless. The placement of this MOTW is irritating too and has slowed the momentum.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to see more of the bunker and that garage is amazing. Hope to see some shots of Dean on the motorbike.
The season so far in a nutshell=Just how big is Dean's God Complex?
ReplyDeleteI am just happy that the first 3 eps were good, because this one was a loser for me..not as bad as Bitten but close. I am tired of Charlie coming in and saving the boys..I was very disappointed that Dean chose her instead of Sam and had Zeke bring her back..I thought Dean told Sam he would ALWAYS pick him..guess always does not last for long. I am hoping Charlie stays in Oz and I never see her again. This is nothing against Day, I have liked her for years, but the character is so boring.
ReplyDeleteBest part of the ep for me was Crowley showing what the witch had said..so funny. I liked the talk between Dean and Zeke and finding out this was hurting Sam, that Dean did not care about.
I usually like Charlie and I don't mind her occasional visits, but the fact that these episodes are always written with Charlie as the shining light that Sam and Dean should aspire to are starting to get annoying. I miss the old days when guests were everyday characters like Ellen, Bobby, Ash. They didn't need to be the star of the whole episode to have an impact.
ReplyDeleteCrowley and the witch may have been the best scenes of the episode.
I've speculated before about what this might mean for Sam's character, but Dean is also wading into dangerous territory. Death gave him a one-on-one lesson a few years back about the consequences of bringing people back from the dead, and now Dean has seemed to have lost all restraint.
ReplyDeleteI definitely prefer flaws too. As I said in another post, I loved the guests of old who were normal people- like Ellen. I agree with you about dumbing down of Dean, and of Sam too. The show is based on the idea that these two average guys, who were raised in crazy circumstances and survived on their wits, were able to accomplish things greater than powerful angels. It doesn't do the show any good to dumb down either.
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. As I said in the review, I liked Dorothy too, and was expecting something when Crowley wanted to stretch his legs.
ReplyDeleteIf Sam's and Dorothy's conversation was an attempt at showing Sam's feelings, it was pretty weak IMO, since I don't think we heard much more than a line from Sam about home not working out for him.
I like your reviews :)
ReplyDeleteI got to say it is Sam, he dosen't really express his feelings, which I think because its a dude thing?. I'm a girl so that's how I percieve it. The real emotions will probably be shown once all the Zeke stuff comes around. I agree Dorothy was good and I liked her and the episode was very different but weirdly fantastic :)
Your point about characters like Ellen, Bobby and Ash not needing to take up an entire episode to have an impact is so on point. I get that Felicia is a bigger name and that's why they're utilizing her so much but Supernatural has never really needed that before. And honestly, I felt like Mark Sheppard saved this episode because of how fantastic he is. He doesn't even need to get up out of a chair to show off his acting skills. He's been in shackles for the last three episodes that we've seen him in and he's acting circles around everyone.
ReplyDeleteLOL, yes!!! Mark saved it for me also, that one scene where he was showing what the witch had to say was worth watching this ep for, but I did like the scene with Zeke and Dean about taking longer to cure Sam...that just showed me how off the rails Dean is.
ReplyDeleteLet me answer your question about why Charlie could not just be knocked out...She HAD to save Dean, she HAD to be the star of the ep, she HAD to be the HERO. UGH. Dean HAD to pick her over Sam. For me I was hoping this was going to be the end of Charlie and Dean would do what was right..feel bad for a friend that died saving your life, but worry about your brother more.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to be upset with the show..yet, this was just one ep and I really loved the first 3. The next one looks promising so am looking forward to some Jensen comedy.
I was watching Scandal and wondering why they did not seem to ever have a weak ep and stay on point of the show and they have 22 eps..are their writers just better? Maybe we need less eps like White Collar, Covert Affairs and stop with the filler eps if the writers are not up to the task of a full season.
Dean DID care about it! Zeke said he had to choose between killing the witch or saving Charlie. I agree I wish they'd just let Charlie die, but NOBODY can ever tell me that Dean doesn't love his brother over everyone else.
ReplyDeleteAnd were you also this hard on Sam last year when he deliberately chose to let Dean be dead or alive without lifting a finger to find out because Sam did indeed choose Amelia over looking for Dean?
You mean the guys who thinks he's totally worthless and whose only purpose is to revolve around Sam? Some God complex that.
ReplyDeleteDean is making serious bad decisions because he acts emotionally on impulse without stopping to think things through. And now he just has to keep coming up with ways to keep Zeke's secret from everybody. I am so far very disappointed in this arc for Dean, I
ReplyDeleteI was harder on Sam last year and still have not forgiven him for NOT LOOKING FOR DEAN. The writers threw Sam under the bus as he would have ALWAYS looked for Dean. That was so out of character for him and ruined season 8 for me. I still have not bought the DVD..it is going to have to get around $10 used before I buy it and then only for the bonus material..can not watch that season again. Where have you been, I have been on this bandwagon for a year. I HATED it and I could not look at Sam last year without thinking about it. Made me not like Sam at all and I had loved Sam for 7 years.
ReplyDeleteDean did not just chose Charlie over killing the witch, he chose her over Sam, Zeke said it was making him weak and would take longer to heal, so to save Charlie he is letting Zeke stay in Sam longer. I did not see it as just the witch or Charlie.
There has,been a shift in the way guests are promoted. They used to be woven in for shorter appearances over several episodes. Now they're set up like they're headlining, and even have their own music.
ReplyDeleteBut even still, I wouldn't have as much problem with this if there was more substance to the episodes that did focus more on Sam and Dean.
I'll attest to this. You definitely didn't let Sam slide. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI think the key to your question about the point of killing Charlie is Zeke's line that this will force him to stay in Sam longer than either had hoped. We don't know the consequences of this yet, but I'm betting there will be some.
ReplyDeletenot what I meant at all
ReplyDeleteLOL, I am much better this year. You know it is hard to have your hero have feet of clay.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't know, I wasn't here, that's why I ask.
ReplyDeleteI HATE what they've done to Dean this season so far. If you thought they threw Sam under the bus last year, well I think they're doing that right now with Dean, putting him a position where he feels forced to violate Sam's free will, is forced to throw his best friend out in the cold at the time that he needs him most, spinning one lie after another, and on top of that, having to play supporting role to an episode which stars the fabulous Charlie ( being sarcastic). And the witch possession was so cheesy, I was embarrassed for both Jared and Jensen.
And now the writers have talked Jensen into humiliating himself by acting like a dog.
I had wrongly believed, because of the misleading promos, that this season would FINALLY be Jensen's turn to shine after season after season of being thrown to the sidelines. I was mistaken. All they've given him so far is a thankless arc designed to turn the fans against him. But hopefully it will get better.
The line where Stanford educated, high IQ'd Sam tells Dorothy to "help the smartest person there" almost made me puke in my mouth a little. Really show? And on top of that, she seems to have gained a boatload of hunter knowledge in such a short time that she can work with Sam and Dean, who've spent their entire lives garnering hunter experience and knowledge.
ReplyDeleteIf they were gonna focus on a side character it should have been Crowley or Kevin. They actually are a part of the supernatural universe that Sam and Dean inhabit, and actually are tied in with the Winchesters' arc.
Because that was pretty much all we did get there. That would have been a nice opportunity to discover what Sam may be thinking. But Dorothy didn't have time to be Sam's shoulder because she was too busy playing special guest star in the Charlie show, featuring supporting players Sam and Dean.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I do think that there has to be other characters in the Winchester universe to flesh out the characters and also they have to have other people that they care about and have relationships with, but still, at the end of the day those relationships STILL should revolve around their direct impact on Sam and Dean, it should STILL in the end be about THEM. This had hardly anything to do with Sam and Dean, it was all about Charlie.
Past characters like Ellen and Jo, Pamela, Ash etc, were great characters in their own right, were an actual part of the hunting world that Sam and Dean inhabit, and I thought that we learned more about Sam and Dean through those relationships. In other words, those relationships expanded Sam and Dean's characters, not supplant them.
I didn't include Bobby there because I always saw him as the third lead, not a recurring guest star.
ReplyDeleteThe point here (agreeing with you) is that some viewers will see this as Dean being forced into an action rather than making choices. Good drama often comes from well-developed characters clashing over those gray decisions that some people consider right and some wrong. But if the character really doesn't appear to have much choice, then they're just being set up.
ReplyDeleteI actually didn't has as much of a problem with that, although there could have been more banter a out Sam's brains so it wouldn't look like Thompson didn't know that Sam was super-smart.
ReplyDeleteWhat i'm having more of a problem with is that this looks like Charlie is someone really important to Sam, when in reality the only relationshipbeing developed is between Charlie and Dean. It's like what they did with Sam suddenly seeing Bobby as a father or Cas as a brother when those relationships were never developed.
I agree that Dean is driven by emotion and his super strong attachment to the idea of family.
ReplyDeleteGlad you're enjoying the reviews. The problem I have with dismissing Sam's lack of dialogue on his character is that he was so different in the first few seasons. He was the one who was outspoken with John and often trying to get Dean to open up. People sometimes change, but it should be clear on when and why Sam changed.
ReplyDeleteI won't disagree that he have changed, at least we're on the same page on that. Both the boys of have changed as they got older, more mature but still the same Sam and Dean, I think that what Kripke said.
ReplyDeleteI think Sam changed more after when he got out of hell and stop using his blood addiction. I was going to say powers but that isn't happening. That's where I have noticed some changes but Sam still outspoken, not as much like with John and he still compassionate and he stills tries to crack Dean to open up (not lately understandably). I admit Dean more straightforward with emotions than Sam. The thing is it is Sam personaility not the always the writers, he's the mysterious type, more introverted. Dean the extrovert and talk out his feelings more. These boys are very different to each other but that's what makes the show great :)
I agree with tvmonkey; Dean has 'violated the natural order' 3x this season, via Dean's allowing Zeke to possess Sam to heal Sam and himself and Sam instead of just Sam die of his mortal illness, then Zeke resurrected Cas on his own and Charlie at Dean's request. To me, that's playing god.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised that you felt Thompson wasn't writing for Dean or Sam in this episode. Dean, I could see, but I actually thought he wrote more for Sam than most writers have in recent seasons. We got Sam's POV on something besides tension with Dean or on his past mistakes. We finally got to hear how he really feels about the bunker, instead of Carver or Singer telling us oh of course, he's happy there, he likes books.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Dorothy's comment about hunters as a violation of canon because Dorothy hasn't even been in "our" world for 75 years. She wasn't going to be talking about what we've seen. She also seemed to be speaking about herself, as she'd been brought back from the dead.
I don't think Charlie saw hunting as a job. She had a job, which she left because of their unethical practices. She saw hunting as a passion, or something to look for an ideal in. That was the main reason Dean was at crosspurposes with her, because he can't see it that way, as that thinking can be dangerous.
I agree about the direction. Like Torn & Frayed, one of Singer's last episodes, everything felt vacant, in spite of a few good performances.
I don't really see Dean being dumbed down. It was just two episodes ago that he was smart and in charge. The main reason for the book comment this week was because Jensen and Jared didn't like the original lines (Dean was the one joking to Sam about reading a book).
ReplyDeleteScandal has only been on a few seasons. Even then I've already heard people saying the show has become about stunts and ruined some key characters.
ReplyDeleteI think they've done a decent job of explaining everything Dean has been doing. Whereas with Sam last season, they didn't even bother. I think even Jared might have said he didn't understand what Sam was doing not looking for Dean. Everything Dean is doing is based on his need to try to keep people safe, and the failure he feels if that doesn't happen. It's not always pretty - what he did to Sam was terrible and is going to be difficult to get over - but it makes sense to me, and I think it's given Jensen an opportunity to give some nuanced and strong performances.
ReplyDeleteI'd expected them to just throw Dean to the wolves, but they haven't, so far.
I think it depends on the character. I felt like some of them were just on there long enough to be a plot device or to die (Pamela), and they never gave them a chance. Others, like Jo, they tried hard to make her a central part of the show and to give her her own voice, to the point where Dean and Sam, especially Sam, were sidelined. They only stopped this due to fan backlash.
ReplyDeleteI think some of Charlie's episodes have given Dean and Sam a chance to shine. Sam had a lot to do in Pacman Fever, as he was a major reason they got out alive, and he was trying to prove his strength to Dean and to himself. Dean got so many fun moments in LARP and the Real Girl that showed off the geeky side of the character I love.
This episode seemed like Sam and Dean took more of a backseat, I guess because of Dorothy + Charlie, but I still thought they had some moments for Sam. It was mostly Dean who was furthest in the background this time, in my opinion.
I think he stopped after Dean died the first time.
ReplyDeleteYes 2 eps ago, it is when Charlie shows up that the guys get dumbed down so she can be the HERO of the story. Any ep she is in it is like that. For me enough is enough and I hope she does not come back from Oz.
ReplyDeleteI was not pushing Scandal, my point was they don't seem to have a weak ep, they are always moving along and not boring...at least to me, and they have 22 eps, just one less than SPN, but they don't have filler eps.
ReplyDeleteOutspoken?. Thats what I'm assuming, I still think he speaks his mind but not necessarily his emotions. But thats what your opinion is then thats that :)
ReplyDeleteI didn't think of this before but Dorothy was a stranger. Yes they let her run around and she was cool but it would be unusual for Sam to let out all his feelings to her. I'll haveto say if Charlie was in every episode saving the day over the professionals I would be kinda annoyed, but we got her in moderation which is fine by me.
ReplyDeleteI wish Ellen and all the others in past seasons had never died and most importantly Bobby!.
Dont worry Dean will come up smelling like roses as usual.
ReplyDeletewell the next 3 are either Dean centric or Cas and Dean so it was only right that Dean actually take a back seat for a change but that didnt mean they should have made the episode the Charlie and Dorothy show with a line from Sam added just to make it seem like it was more about him. Now we'll have to wait till the second half of the season for any Sam centric because up till 8 is Dean and/Cas and then 9, 10 and 11 are myth arc.
ReplyDeletewell thats more Fanwank than anything else because according to Carver and Singer Sam is more open with his feelings while Dean is the more reserved one. Its been the reverse for more than half the shows existence now.
ReplyDeleteI think he stopped because the writers couldn't be bothered to write for him.
ReplyDeletehe's less outspoken than Dean on both fronts.
ReplyDeleteAnd when is that? You mean how all through the seasons EVERYBODY has been saying how smart, special, and wonderful Sam is, while telling Dean he is worthless, unimportant, holding Sam back, stupid, and needs to get the hell out of Sam's way so that Sam can do ALL the important things? That's coming up smelling like roses?
ReplyDeleteFor a change!? You've GOT to be kidding!! Dean has ALWAYS taken a back seat on this show! It's about damned time SOMETHING is about HIM for a change! Every single season, save for 7, has ALWAYS centered around Sam!Including THIS one!
ReplyDeleteEvery single season except 7, which wasn't about either brother, and 3, which was the ONLY season that Dean got as much focus as Sam, has been TOTALLY Sam-centric. SAM can take a back seat for once!
ReplyDeleteMy comments about Thompson were more in reference to his overall record than this paticular episode. He write two episodes when he started that focused on Sam and Dean, but since Time After Time, all five of his episodes have focused on Charlie - with builing the Dean-Charlie relationship, with the exception of one Cas episode.
ReplyDeleteHe does sometimes throw in a line or two with some insight into Sam, which is more than some writers do, but is still far short than what I would expect for development of one of two lead characters.
I don't think the writing team as a whole is putting the same love and excitment into writing Sam and Diean as they are their favorite per characters, but that's a longer discussion for a time then I'm not typing on my phone.
Your point about Charlie's job is taken, but my annoyance at having to listen to her when she's not even interested in Sam and Sam's world of hunting still stands.
I was also bored toward the end. I just didn't find the witch to be a threat. I loved when Dean got upset at the messed up kitchen saying "I just cleaned in here!"
ReplyDeleteI do agree w/Peter in that Scandal is in its infancy as a show. I've never watched it, but this is the 2nd season, right? I would hope a show would still have some juice in its 2nd season. Supernatural is on its 9th season.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought every show has a shelf life, and S7-present prove it.
Jared didn't understand it. He even said it was OOC for Sam to not look for Dean. I'm sure his confusion re: the story is why he spoke to Carver early in the season. He knew his character was being trashed.
ReplyDeleteI was just complaining about the same thing on Supernatural.tv. It's lazy writing. Instead of actual writing scenes that show the bond/friendship btw Sam and Charlie, Sam and Cas, or Sam and Bobby, they just piggyback off of Dean's feelings or just "tell" instead of "show." It's annoying!
ReplyDeleteAnd did you notice how crushed and devastated Dean looked when it became clear that Charlie was leaving versus Sam. Sam looked somewhat amazed and confused about how sad Dean seemed to be. Sam didn't care that she was leaving. Haha :-)
Neither did I, Sam! Neither did !
Yep . . . it's all in their attempt to make this more of an ensemble show instead of a two-lead show.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the original line? Dean teased Sam about reading as if Sam wouldn't read a book? I'm really curious.
ReplyDeleteWell, apparently, Jared said Sam could talk to Dorothy and really open up to her BECAUSE she was a one off character who would be gone soon.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Jared's scenes ended up on the cutting room floor b/c I know he couldn't have possibly considered that one line "opening up in a way he never had."
Are you forgetting S2 where the first half was about Dean and how he was coping w/John's death? Or S3, which was all about Dean's demon deal and how to save him from it? And S4 where Dean returned from Hell and had a mission from God, plus all his Hell memories and issues. What about S5 where Dean was pegged to be the "Michael sword?" I don't care how that arc ended but it was all about Dean. Plus, we got Dean's depression and his anger w/Sam. In S6, Dean had an arc with Lisa/Ben that was sprinkled throughout the season. In S7, the writers even said that Dean had a 13 or 14-episode arc. Granted, it wasn't good, but it was devoted to Dean.
ReplyDeleteDing, ding, ding . . . . WE HAVE A WINNER!
ReplyDeleteLOL! Sam didn't suddenly lose his ability to express himself. The writers just stopped writing for him on an emotional level!
Everyone entitled to their opinions but I diagree and in regards to your other comment he's not oversensitive he will voice out something if necessary.
ReplyDeleteThat's your view so fair enough.
ReplyDeleteApparently so, yes. I guess maybe it was predicated on the idea that Sam would be surprised Dean would want to read the book, and then Dean would tease him about it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this way around felt more familiar to them (and could also be a porn joke).
If it were an ensemble show then more people would be around for good. I think it's just that after 9 seasons they need some voices to appear that are a little different, every once in a while.
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on who runs the show. Some of my favorite Knots Landing episodes were from post season 7. Even with Supernatural, I've had a lot of issues with the show since season 3 or season 5, and have enjoyed some parts of the later seasons. I feel like the show has been up and down for a long time.
ReplyDeleteI see what you mean, but even then, I've heard Scandal fans complaining about filler episodes (one last week). I guess it's in the eye of the beholder.
ReplyDeleteI thought he gave Sam short strift in the LARP episode, but the last two I thought Sam had a decent amount to do, and a POV.
ReplyDeleteI generally enjoy Thompson's episodes because I enjoy his Dean - the goofier and caring side of Dean. This time didn't really have that, unfortunately.
I feel like Charlie is interested in Sam (some Dean fans even insist that she is Sam's cheerleader and puts Dean down for Sam - I don't agree with that), but unfortunately they rarely show it. They did have a little more interaction this episode.
Oh please. Season 2 was all about Sam's psychic powers and chosen one status. Dean had no real attention until the end with his deal.
ReplyDeleteI DID say that season 3 was more balanced, did I not?
Season 4 was all about Sam's demon blood addiction and relationship with Ruby. Dean was supposed to have importance but then didn't. They only touched on his Hell memories briefly at the beginning, after which Sam mocked him.
Season 5, Dean couldn't kill Lucifer, and then Death told him how unimportant he was, and that ONLY Sam could stop Lucifer and the Apocalypse. Dean didn't matter there at all.Season 6, are you kidding me? We touched on Dean with Lisa but almost ALL of the season was devoted to Sam being souless, until Cas took over at the end. Season 7 was about neither of them, being depressed and drunk is NOT a story arc.
Season 8, Purgatory story meant nothing, was more about Cas than Dean, and was very quickly dropped with no lasting impact whatsoever on Dean, while we got flashback after flashback with Sam and Amelia.And then of course killing the hellhound doing the trials, and the illness. And now in season 9, Jared gets yet ANOTHER meaty and important arc, that of being able to play both Sam and Ezekiel, while Dean's whole arc consists of spinning lies to keep the secret. Once again, SAM is the important one, it's all about HIM, with whatever's left going to Cas.
It's great that Jared can show off his acting skills, but he ALWAYS gets to do that. It's Dean's turn, aftger 8 seasons, to be important on his own merit for once, and not just because his whole existence revolves around Sam.
Again, totally scratching my head here, they ONLY write for Sam! And a bit for Cas!
ReplyDeletePlease tell me what alternate universe you guys watch SPN in cause I'd be interested to see that.
I guess so, because I did not think Scandal last week was even close to being a filler. To me that is something like this week SPN or Bitten. Does not really have anything to do with the story going on in the series. Most of the ones Charlie is in are fillers to me, the only one that was not was the first one when she was hunting the Levis for the boys.
ReplyDeleteI only ask b/c Dean knows Sam reads so if the writer wrote the same lines we got but w/Sam and Dean switched around then that writer clearly knows nothing about this show.
ReplyDeleteBut that's not to say Dean doesn't read either b/c we know he does.
I honestly think the only thing preventing them from including masses of other people on this show are the fans. If they thought the audience would accept it, everyone Sam and Dean know would be in that bunker, and we would rarely see Sam and Dean together.
ReplyDeleteI was a kid when Knots Landing aired, but you liked that season about water or dams or whatever? I only remember the season w/Jason Lochner - the kid who was physically abused by his dad before Mac adopted him.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that it depends on the show and the showrunner. In its early seasons, I thought Supernatural would be able to go on forever, but I have since changed my mind. I feel the show has moved much too far away from what it used to be and from its premise. To me, the show feels like it should be winding down at this point. I honestly can't see how many more seasons they can get out of it. I expect S10 to be the last.
However, I could be wrong :-)
S2 was not all about Sam's powers! Dean had a story arc that season. He was dealing w/his father's death as well as the burden of John's secret. Did you forget the Impala bashing? The confession at the end of CSPWDT? The bonding w/Gordon? The anger and resentment toward Sam? The confession in Croatoan? That was ALL about Dean. I'm not sure how you can deny it as those were some really good scenes for Jensen and present some show highlights.
ReplyDeleteS4 was NOT all about Sam's blood addiction. We only learned about the blood addiction a few episodes prior to the end. Kripke even admitted that Sam's story was told in the background (i.e., off screen) b/c the focus was on Dean. All Sam did during S4 was sneak around behind Dean's back w/Ruby. Nothing else. We learn late in the season what Sam was doing b/c the writers couldn't be bothered to spend some time on his crazy behavior. Dean had a huge arc in S4. He was resurrected from Hell. He was dealing w/Hell memories. He bonded w/an angel. He was tapped for a mission from God. He was brought into the much coveted mytharc. Are you denying that these things occurred w/him?
What does Dean killing Lucifer in S5 have to do w/him having a story? Much of S5 was spent on Dean. Zachariah spent the majority of the season trying to get Dean to say yes to Michael. He only gave up a few episodes before the end. Just b/c Dean didn't become Michael doesn't mean he had no arc or story. Sam didn't complete the trials last year; that doesn't negate the actual story.
S6 was NOT devoted to Sam being soulless. Sam was soulless for 10-11 (literally half the season) episodes. He was fine after that until Cas dropped his Wall in the finale. Dean had a story in S6. Neither of us may have liked it, but he had a story w/Ben and Lisa, his desire for family, and how to balance the two worlds. A crappy story, but a story nonetheless. It's not like Dean was forgotten and given nothing to do.
How can you say depression is not a story? If it's not a story, what is it? That was Dean's story in S7. I'm not saying it was a good story, but a story doesn't have to be good to be qualified as a story. The writers said they were spending 13-14 episodes to explore Dean's depression. They certainly considered it a story.
Again, S8 had a story for Dean. Was it told well? No. Was it consistent? No, but then it's not like S8 did Sam any favors w/his crap story either. I will agree that towards the end of S8, Dean had nothing to do, which was annoying.
I can't speak to S9 until it's complete.
In any event, I completely disagree that Dean has never had a story. You should blame the writers for their lack of creativity when it comes to Dean. They seem to wan to keep the characters to their established boxes. Who knows why.
Purgatory was almost entirely about Dean. There were a number of cool fight scenes for Dean, a friendship with a new character, a struggle with PTSD after he got back. Cas had a bit part in episode 2, a bit part in episode 5, and that was it.
ReplyDeleteThe season 9 arc so far has focused in large part on Dean's emotions and choices.
Season 4 was also in large part about Dean, all the way through. Cas was brought in solely for this purpose, as was Anna, as was Alastair.
Sorry, the main thing that I saw placed front and center in season 4 was Sam's addiction to demon blood and his relationship with Ruby. Compared to that, Dean's story with Cas and the angels felt like a side story.
ReplyDeleteWe got exactly two episodes in the beginning of season 8 that only just grazed Dean's PTSD from being in Purgatory, and then it was dropped and forgotten. Purgatory turned out to be just an excuse to introduce Benny, himself only a reason to have tension between Sam and Dean, and for Dean to feel guilty about Cas, but aside from that, it was hardly a story and had absolutely NO real impact on Dean whatsoever.
At the same time, Carver pushed what he and Singer thought was the more important story, Sam's year with Amelia, front and center, it definitely was the featured arc in the first half of season 8. I will agree and admit that it was a sucky storyline, and Jared deserved better, but still, in comparison, the whole Purgatory arc felt like a small subplot.
Season 9? Well, I see Jared getting, yet again, another meaty acting assignment that allows him to wow reviewers and fans alike, while Jensen just gets handed the exact same plot he always gets and by now can do in his sleep, existing only to worry about and look after Sam, with the added insult if being the guy who violated his brother's free will, turned his best friend out in the cold in his hour of need, and spins one lie after another. I just don't see that as any great story arc. Sam will end up being the hero, again, and Dean will be the unimportant possessive brother that has no worth of his own and holds his brother back from his happiness, according to the show.
Well I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. To me, in every season except for 3 and 7, Sam's stories always overshadowed Dean's and were presented as being more important. I did feel that Sam's demon blood addiction and relationship with Ruby was far more prominent than Dean's story with the angels.Season 5, I still say was more Sam's than Dean's what with being Lucifer's chosen vessel, remnants of the demon blood addiction still there, EVERYBODY including Cas AND Death, telling Dean that Sam was the ONLY one who could stop Lucifer and the Apocalypse and Dean had to get out of his way. Sam's actions had impact, Dean's didn't. Season 6, well, touching on a few episodes towards the beginning and then dropping it is not a storyline to me. Having a major arc about not having a soul IS.
ReplyDeleteUmm, I DO blame the writers, for everything! I certainly don't have anything against Jared or the character of Sam. Of course, any Dean fan who dares to express what they believe is unbalanced and unequal treatment is always thought to somehow dislike Sam. Totally untrue in my case.
Oh, I thought you were saying Dean never had any stories. That's where I disagreed w/you. The significance of each story comes down to the individual.
ReplyDeleteFor me, neither brother's story was more important than the other's unless it was a romance. So, Sam being soulless was much more important than Dean's family troubles, and Dean's PTSD and time in Purgatory was much more important than Sam's boring relationship w/Amelia. I swear my mind drifted each time a Samelia FB occurred. I just always found myself thinking of other things. I can't say that happened in S6 w/Dean.
I don't really see the meaty acting assignment. It's cool to play an angel, I'm sure, but he has one or two scenes an episode where he does the same few things over and over. I think the same happened in season 4 - I'm sure someone would say Jared got to play powers and flashy moments, but the huge emotional material and the challenges mostly went to Jensen, aside from things like the episode where Sam was being detoxed.
ReplyDeleteSam's season 9 material is flashier than what Dean gets, but I'd say Dean has the more interesting material, and I wouldn't say it's the same story Dean has had. The codependency is the same, but the rest that he's having to make himself do is different, and has the potential for much darker material.
With Purgatory and the aftereffects, Dean had 4-5 episodes of strong emotional material and action that Jensen knocked out of the park. Benny was a great character who, yes, was there for Sam/Dean tension, but who also gave some new shadings to Dean. Dean deserved more, but it was still some of the best material for anyone on the show in years.
I wish there had been more of Cas, or more focus on Cas, in Purgatory, but I never saw it.
I think they would bring in one or two more people if it weren't for fan backlash (even the actors have said they would like more people). The other reason I would say is budget.
ReplyDelete