I ... AM ... SPEECHLESS. H-O-L-Y C-R-A-P I can't even.AAAAAAAAAAAAAH.It happened almost exactly as we thought :O I can't believe it!!!Ezekiel will indeed be inside of Sam!!!Something tells me he won't want to leave him when the time comes...THIS SEASON IS GOING TO KILL MEEEE
I LOVE the premeire! We're sure are off to a great start and for once, I understand the dilema and the secret, first time in a *very* long time it actually make sense
Great start. So emotional with Sam and Dean. Castiel's storyline was done well. Liked Ezekiel, hope he keeps his promise (I suppose it'll be unlikely).
Whoa! That was an amazing premiere and I can't wait to see where this season goes.
Poor Sam. Understand why Dean did what he did, but I don't like that's he's hiding it (nor that he let an angel inside Sam without his consent, but the brothers are really co-dependent).
Hee at Ezekiel being inside Sam. Already ship Ezekiel/Sam. Oops.
And oh God, crying!Dean and "There ain't no me if there ain't no you". I can't. And he meant what he said in the church!
I thought that was a pretty solid start to what I hope is a great season. I love that Castiel has his own journey separate from Sam and Dean (for now), and it's going to be really interesting watching him figure out who he is now. I think he's going to have a super difficult time defining his relationship with the boys now that he can't fix things with the snap of his fingers (thank goodness).
It's going to hit the fan if Sam ever finds out what Dean did, though. This was a bit more understandably "for his own good" but we see what happens when they lie to each other. Here's hoping it doesn't blow up too badly. And as always, Death was perfection. I hope that wasn't all we'll see of him!
Awesome start! I really like the scenes inside Sammy's head - Bobby and Dean arguing made me smile. It was fantastic to see both Death and Bobby again. Hope that the next episode is just as good as this one!
I was prepared to hate the possession angle, but Jensen was so believable and moved me so much, as Dean worked through to that conclusion, that I find myself sold on the story, in spite of my disgust that they went there. I hope Sam finds out quickly, because the deception is going to be - not fun to watch. It's such an odd difference between the "do anything" approach in S9, compared to the "didn't even try to look for you" in S8. They really need to balance this out...
I'M STILL SHAKING. AWESOME PREMIEEEEEEEEEEERE! I loved all storylines, and I liked Esekiel :)) And omg Death! YEAH! And awwww por baby Cas :3 Cant wait for the next episode!
When I heard that Dean had a secret from SDCC interviews, I was thinking something more about himself. But it's about Sam. Ezekiel being in Sam. I powered through SPN this summer and besides Dean getting a year to live before Hell or his drinking problem, Dean has always been the one being on the side of Sam having some problem or being the only one who can do something. It's not a bad thing, but I was hoping for a change.
That said, I loved the episode. It was great to see Bobby and my #1 dude Death. I think it'll be a great season. I'm excited to see what Jared will do acting as two different people; he's usually great at that. And Cas struggling to be a broke human who wants to help the angels that all seem to want to kill him. And their brotherly love, man. So much feels. Should be fun.
Hopefully they can build on this. They got more out of redeeming Sam which was good and the Angels of Anarchy on a manhunt for a powerless Castiel will be interesting.
Crowley's lucky his legs are so short, being locked in that trunk for so long.
This was such an amazing ep that it scares me, can they keep it up? Will watch again in the morning and have more thoughts then. This is the first time in a year that I have even wanted to watch an ep again..FANTASTIC.
Finally the wait is over :) This was an amazing season premiere. Loved it. Loved the scene with Bobby in the car. Loved Dean prayer to Cast and all angels. But the "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" was the best part of it.
Was it perfect ? no it had some flaws like "the trench coat " like what did cas do with it ...Saying that , it wasn't amazing but it was really good that my eyes were clued and i felt as though every single word was like what somebody ,would say if you were in that same situation.The acting was very very well done especially by jensen . Not sure if i agree with dean's discussion but i understand it as it's hard just to let your brother slip away , and hay at least it's an angle not a demon , but i douno what the angle wants to be honest... Loved the glass breaking in the hospital and the angles felt old school spn . Wonder what will happen to cas what will he do this season will he not get boring ?? douno but we shall see..Next week's OMG
Hurry up next tuesday , give this a 8 out of 10 on the whole
OMG! I don't know if I love Dean or hate Dean right now? I love him for saving Sam that way but I hate him for Lieing to him Damn when Sam finds out its going to be bad. But thank God Sam alive that that's all that matter to me that's all. Man this is going to be one hell of a season and I hope it going to be Awesome.
I wasn't blown away with this episode like a lot of SPN fans. I figured out after the finale most of what was going to happen, especially since this show centers around Sam with Dean as support. Dean lying to protect his brother, to save him, of course that was going to happen. It happens nearly every season in one form or another, so it's a common trope at this point. I enjoyed seeing Death. The story with the angels needs some more development as it's full of plotholes, but otherwise, I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Again, the introductory female character (Hael) is shown to be a villain and quickly killed off, like most female characters (meaning that most, if not all, are killed). Everyone that says "Dean did this" when in reference to what happened in Sam's head, I still hold that it was Sam's figment, his divided consciousness and a way to play out Sam's storyline while having Dean in it for obligatory screen time. There was a couple of funny moments, Ezekiel showing up had me interested until he possessed Sam and turned into a robot when he'd been acting relatively normal in the other human. It laid out a couple of storylines, Cas' arc with the angels, Sam's arc with the possession, Dean's arc as....??? oh, wait. He doesn't get his own set-up for an arc, yet again. He's the supporting member. The acting was, as always, spot on with the main characters. Jared and Jensen have really grown from S1 and I look forward to seeing what they do through S9 - but all in all, it was a good start to a season, and as a fan who has watched this show since day one, I haven't said that about all the seasons.
it's not like they'll spend episodes and episodes searching a way to find what's wrong with him and cure him, he's fine for now, no need to search.
And what do you expect, it's the story of the boys saving the world over and over, they can't stay wihout a scratch and win every single fight. Normal that they get hurt, bad, from time to time and have to fight to stay alive. And staying alive just to keep fighting and getting hurt for what it seem like forever is sure hard, so it was understandable and a new angle to pursuit to have Sammy wanting to give up the fight.
Wow that how you start a season. I think you guys are right about Ezekiel not gonna get out of Sam that easy. But than again cass trust him so for now i will I think lol.
Dean interacted with every single important character on the show; Sam, Bobby, Castiel, Ezekiel, 3 angels who tried to kill him, the doctor and grief counselor, Death and probably others. Sam interacted with Dean, Bobby, Death, and Ezekiel. Castiel interacted with Haley, Dean, the guy on the phone, the guy in the truck.
How can you call Dean's time with Sam obligatory screen time? Yes, most of it wasn't really Dean, but to Sam Dean was the part of him that wanted Sam to fight to live. Compare that "obligatory screen time" to the short time Sam had in What is and What Should never be when the Sam in Dean's mind was a vanilla, clueless automaton. Then, compare that to the 5 minute stint of Sam as Lucifer in The End. That wasn't really Sam, but without that scene Jared wouldn't have hardly been in the episode... kind of like the episode that he wasn't in for even a minute... In the Beginning.
In this episode, Dean was the focus of everything. His goal was to save Sam, but Sam didn't really even have a goal. Sam was just reacting. Dean was acting. Heck, Sam was unconscious for about half of his screen time. Just because Dean cares about Sam and fights to save him, it does not make him a supporting character. Is the person in the passenger seat in charge, or is the driver? Who makes the decisions, who interacts with the characters?
I got very excited for a minute during the episode because I thought "OMG, Sam is going to have a talk with Bobby... just the two of them!" Then, I remembered, Bobby is just a representation of the part of Sam that wants to die... So, they aren't really having a heart to heart. The only real person Sam talked to in the entire episode, besides himself was Death for a brief scene (that too is a first), and the real Dean briefly or it could have been a "too good" Ezekiel imitation of Dean.
If Sam doesn't interact with anybody and lays in a bed for 1/3 of the episode, how can the show revolve around him? How is Sam being possessed an arc for Sam? What are we going to learn about Sam by having Ezekiel riding shotgun. It is something interesting for Jared to portray, but it is another quick way to wipe out damage that was supposed to be permanent -- like Sam's Hell trauma. At least Dean's Hell trauma stuck around for years and was explored and discussed by Dean. Sam's trauma was mostly discussed by other characters until it came to a head right before Castiel erased / shifted it.
I just don't understand your thinking. When Dean's time on screen for an entire episode is less than a minute and Sam has 35 minutes or more, then I would call it obligatory.
I enjoyed every second of it. I loved Tahmoh, I'm sorry that's the last we'll be seeing of him. The parts in Sam's head were very interesting. I'm pleased that Bobby wasn't actually ~brought back~ it was just a part of Sam's psyche taking his form. Great acting on Jensen's part, as always. And I was just giggling or swooning over everything that Castiel did. Misha is very, very attractive.
I think we're supposed to be discussing if what Dean did to save Sam was right/wrong or fuzzy and in between. And this is a case where the show is telling us there's no perfect answer, just as Ezekiel told Dean. Dean chose *his* best answer - he wants Sam to live.
I agree. Ezekiel said it wasn't a good option, but it seems to be working. If Ezekiel leaves when Sam is better, it is not the worst secret these guys have kept. If Ezekiel doesn't leave, that is another story... but I don't think it would be Dean's fault. What option did he have? Even if Sam would have been happy enough to have passed over, it would have destroyed Dean (as it should have destroyed Sam at the end of Season 7).
I want to cling to the hope that Ezekiel is one of the good guys. While I am open to the possibility that he might deceive them, I want to hope for the better because of his promising first appearance.
I don't think that'll be the last we'll see of Tahmoh. For a while, sure. But I think eventually, he'll have to go back to that vessel once he leaves Sam.
I have to agree with this. And judging the spoilers we got so far, the first 7 episodes are going to be heavily on Dean exploration.
Ep 1 - Dean did everything pratically.
Ep 2 - Focus on Dean and Abaddon. Ep 3 - Dean is worried about Castiel and he needs to find him. Ep 4 - Despite Charlie being a caracter that I thought would be more Sam related at first, we are going to get more Dean/Charlie bounding, according to Thompson gushing about it. Ep 5 now 7 - Heavily emotional to Dean, where we and Sam are suppose to learn a new side of Dean. The one with the Dean's hook-up. Ep 6 now 5 - Dean talks to animals. It is supposed to be a dream coming true for him. Isn't the same guy who hates dogs and cats? Ep 7 now 6 - Jared was barely on set shooting this one. According to SE Hinton is a very Dean episode, and he will be the hero, helping Cas.
So how are we going to get some Sam development in middle of all this? If part of his time, he is not even him but Ezekiel? If he has nobody to talk to beside Dean? Castiel will get it, since his storyline is happening away from the Winchesters, so he has to be the focus.
This is not a hate this or that caracter situation. I really don't understand why there is complaining about no central storyline for Dean. The guy gets everything else, to the point that some people think that him being way too much explored is killing some of the enjoyment of the show. There are so much they can do with Dean before repeting issues, and we already saw that.
Exactly. I have said before that without these type of sl's for Sam he would not have much else. It isnt really character exploration it is using Sam . The stories are what they are and Dean is always in the thick of it.
Mediocre episode. This show has put together 5-6 consecutive "meh" episodes. Last years finale was the worst season finale I could remember that didn't come from the team that did the series finale for Dexter. Prior to that, I don't know if they had 3 consecutive "meh" episodes ever. Its like watching an All-star athlete returning from a disappointing season, you expect he'll bounce back, but this might actually just be the continuation of a declining skill set.
I completely disagree. This episode has got me excited for the next 22 episodes. I loved every minute of it. I thought the boys were great. I thought Cas having difficulty with the fact that he wasn't angel anymore both touching and funny. Everyone did a great job. The addition of all the angels and their anger and confusion was great. The emotion between Sam and Dean fighting over if Sam would live or die was heartfelt and reminded of season 2 premiere. I also love the season 8 finale as well.
I tried to just be OK with whatever we got. Between Sam being possessed without his consent (which is sickening, and will likely be completely glossed over, beyond some angst and brooding and yelling and maybe a thrown punch around midseason), and yet another female character brought in solely to be "evil" and be killed, I can't say I was thrilled.
I liked the performances, and I liked that Cas and Dean were acting like adults in their conversation.
If they shrug off Sam being violated, yes, I will. I don't watch TV shows to see something like that treated as no big deal, or as "hot," as I have seen some people call it.
I really don't know what to think about this episode... In one way I loved it, it had good pace, great acting, interesting set up for characters storyline this season... but there were a few things really wrong for me like: -the whole possesing Sam thing: one for the "morality" of this and the second - s5 was about how saying yes works - if it was that easy, why Lucifer didn't do that? -do angels know or not what expelled them from heaven and if they know, how? They just assumed it (Heal asked him so she wasn't sure) because it is always Castiel's fault or what? And if they don't know, why are they hunting him?
-as it was stated in the beginning of the episode: they stopped the trial so that Sam could live - I get why he would like to finally have peace and die but in this situation as stupid as it sounds it is a real waste and he should have just proceeded with the trial
-Bobby was kind of a projection of Sam's mind so why did he say that Dean didn't help with rescuing him from hell? If it wasn't for him and Benny, they'd stay in Purgatory
But not to say that I only complain: I liked a lot the whole idea of the things happening is Sam's head, Sam being Sam and Ezekiel, I really liked Heal, the way they managed Castiel in this episode, Dean and Cas conversation mature, even them filled with care and not with accusations etc., Death as always ;), Crowley in the trunk. I also like Ezekiel even thought I think it was stupid of Dean to just believe him (and if Cas says he is a good soldier, I would be even more careful) and yeah, I know how desperate he was. I don't think that when the time comes, he would just leave Sam. Maybe he will try to hurt Cas while in Sam's body?
Also, goodbye trenchcoat, you will be missed:(
But, overall the premiere definitely left me wanting more and that is a good thing :)
This start was great and all as everyone is saying, but I want to point out something which is ignored,.. or doesn't bother the others(?). I was so excited about Death and what grand role he will play this time, but this... this was so un-epic, I mean what? Just swinging around to do a reaper work?!!! And he feels honored?!! One of the most dashing characteristics of Death was his vast ego and self respect, someone who doesn't take himself less than God, and now a mere human (like an ant in his words, no matter what huge role they could play in the universe) gives him honor!! A major OOC here if you ask me. At first I thought he was the portrayal of dying in Sam's mind, ... would be better if it was that way.
But it's a device to lead Sam down his road to his redemption. He said he's willing to cross over as long as no more people get hurt and he can't be brought back. Dean's talk in the car, like Bobby's walk in the woods was validation of what Sam has done. It was as if Sam thought he was only killing monsters all this time.
That interesting I wonder why? It seem when Dean said his name and smile that he was a good guy. But all the angel are got to get them so I guess it can be a trick. That sad because I kinda like him.
Lucifer probably could have done that. I guess he didn't because it would have been too easy. Perhaps the archangels are just really cocky in thinking they can convince stupid little humans of letting them in? That would be my guess anyway.
Carver: you did it again! It was a very cool episode. Good mix between humor and drama. A bit repetitive brothers arguing scenes.... (I'm a little tired of that and hope it will finally over) I love Ezequiel, I trust him. He could have others intentions, no doubt, but I hope he will not betray anyone, I saw it in Cas eyes when he listened his name. Dean care about Sam, but i feel he also care about Castiel, perhaps it was only me, wish not.
But Dear Jeremy I'm not gonna forgive you by having the King of Hell this whole time in the trunk! Dean: you gonna pay this one xD
To me, the first half of season eight almost chased me away from the show. The second half broght me back. The Purgatory stuff was good, but Sam not looking for Dean was so out of character that I couldn't even watch the show and take it seriously. The MOL added something good enough to help me get past Carver's sin.
I'm with you, the first ep of season 8 let a bad taste that tainted the whole season. My favorite part of the season was Purgatory and Benny and they ended that to soon for me. Sam NOT looking ruined the whole thing and I still have not bought the DVD...waiting for it to get down to $10 or less.
IA, it's stunning and the Angel "earsplitting voice sounds" is a great addition to the demonic roar sounds! I'm not the biggest angel storyline fan but new title card was an exact fit with the S8 finale.
Totally agree with your whole post. Outside of enjoying 'Sam' in a few episodes up to 8.09, the Purgatory storyline 'saved' the Fall episodes for me. "Samelia" and the whole "Sam-not-looking-for-Dean-at-all" were ***huge fails*** for me.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
I ... AM ... SPEECHLESS. H-O-L-Y C-R-A-P I can't even.AAAAAAAAAAAAAH.It happened almost exactly as we thought :O I can't believe it!!!Ezekiel will indeed be inside of Sam!!!Something tells me he won't want to leave him when the time comes...THIS SEASON IS GOING TO KILL MEEEE
ReplyDeleteMy soul wasn't ready for such feelings and pain!
ReplyDeleteAawww Sammy fight it!
I LOVE the premeire! We're sure are off to a great start and for once, I understand the dilema and the secret, first time in a *very* long time it actually make sense
''Ezekiel will indeed be inside of Sam!!!''
ReplyDeleteSay like it.....it sound wrong ;)
Great start. So emotional with Sam and Dean. Castiel's storyline was done well. Liked Ezekiel, hope he keeps his promise (I suppose it'll be unlikely).
ReplyDeleteWhoa! That was an amazing premiere and I can't wait to see where this season goes.
ReplyDeletePoor Sam. Understand why Dean did what he did, but I don't like that's he's hiding it (nor that he let an angel inside Sam without his consent, but the brothers are really co-dependent).
Hee at Ezekiel being inside Sam. Already ship Ezekiel/Sam. Oops.
And oh God, crying!Dean and "There ain't no me if there ain't no you". I can't. And he meant what he said in the church!
And I love Human!Cas so far.
Great start to the season.
I thought that was a pretty solid start to what I hope is a great season. I love that Castiel has his own journey separate from Sam and Dean (for now), and it's going to be really interesting watching him figure out who he is now. I think he's going to have a super difficult time defining his relationship with the boys now that he can't fix things with the snap of his fingers (thank goodness).
ReplyDeleteIt's going to hit the fan if Sam ever finds out what Dean did, though. This was a bit more understandably "for his own good" but we see what happens when they lie to each other. Here's hoping it doesn't blow up too badly. And as always, Death was perfection. I hope that wasn't all we'll see of him!
Awesome start! I really like the scenes inside Sammy's head - Bobby and Dean arguing made me smile. It was fantastic to see both Death and Bobby again. Hope that the next episode is just as good as this one!
ReplyDeleteI was prepared to hate the possession angle, but Jensen was so believable and moved me so much, as Dean worked through to that conclusion, that I find myself sold on the story, in spite of my disgust that they went there. I hope Sam finds out quickly, because the deception is going to be - not fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteIt's such an odd difference between the "do anything" approach in S9, compared to the "didn't even try to look for you" in S8. They really need to balance this out...
Loved it soo much happened can't wait for this season it's going to be amazing
ReplyDeleteI'M STILL SHAKING. AWESOME PREMIEEEEEEEEEEERE! I loved all storylines, and I liked Esekiel :)) And omg Death! YEAH! And awwww por baby Cas :3 Cant wait for the next episode!
ReplyDeleteWhen I heard that Dean had a secret from SDCC interviews, I was thinking something more about himself. But it's about Sam. Ezekiel being in Sam. I powered through SPN this summer and besides Dean getting a year to live before Hell or his drinking problem, Dean has always been the one being on the side of Sam having some problem or being the only one who can do something. It's not a bad thing, but I was hoping for a change.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I loved the episode. It was great to see Bobby and my #1 dude Death. I think it'll be a great season. I'm excited to see what Jared will do acting as two different people; he's usually great at that. And Cas struggling to be a broke human who wants to help the angels that all seem to want to kill him. And their brotherly love, man. So much feels. Should be fun.
Hopefully they can build on this. They got more out of redeeming Sam which was good and the Angels of Anarchy on a manhunt for a powerless Castiel will be interesting.
ReplyDeleteCrowley's lucky his legs are so short, being locked in that trunk for so long.
This was such an amazing ep that it scares me, can they keep it up? Will watch again in the morning and have more thoughts then. This is the first time in a year that I have even wanted to watch an ep again..FANTASTIC.
ReplyDeleteFinally the wait is over :) This was an amazing season premiere. Loved it. Loved the scene with Bobby in the car. Loved Dean prayer to Cast and all angels. But the "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" was the best part of it.
ReplyDeleteWas it perfect ? no it had some flaws like "the trench coat " like what did cas do with it ...Saying that , it wasn't amazing but it was really good that my eyes were clued and i felt as though every single word was like what somebody ,would say if you were in that same situation.The acting was very very well done especially by jensen . Not sure if i agree with dean's discussion but i understand it as it's hard just to let your brother slip away , and hay at least it's an angle not a demon , but i douno what the angle wants to be honest... Loved the glass breaking in the hospital and the angles felt old school spn . Wonder what will happen to cas what will he do this season will he not get boring ?? douno but we shall see..Next week's OMG
ReplyDeleteHurry up next tuesday , give this a 8 out of 10 on the whole
OMG! I don't know if I love Dean or hate Dean right now? I love him for saving Sam that way but I hate him for Lieing to him Damn when Sam finds out its going to be bad. But thank God Sam alive that that's all that matter to me that's all. Man this is going to be one hell of a season and I hope it going to be Awesome.
ReplyDeleteThis had to be one of if not the best premier episodes since I started watching with season 6. It was awesome.
ReplyDeleteAnother "Let's fix Sam" storyline? Geez....
ReplyDeleteI wasn't blown away with this episode like a lot of SPN fans. I figured out after the finale most of what was going to happen, especially since this show centers around Sam with Dean as support. Dean lying to protect his brother, to save him, of course that was going to happen. It happens nearly every season in one form or another, so it's a common trope at this point. I enjoyed seeing Death. The story with the angels needs some more development as it's full of plotholes, but otherwise, I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Again, the introductory female character (Hael) is shown to be a villain and quickly killed off, like most female characters (meaning that most, if not all, are killed). Everyone that says "Dean did this" when in reference to what happened in Sam's head, I still hold that it was Sam's figment, his divided consciousness and a way to play out Sam's storyline while having Dean in it for obligatory screen time. There was a couple of funny moments, Ezekiel showing up had me interested until he possessed Sam and turned into a robot when he'd been acting relatively normal in the other human. It laid out a couple of storylines, Cas' arc with the angels, Sam's arc with the possession, Dean's arc as....??? oh, wait. He doesn't get his own set-up for an arc, yet again. He's the supporting member. The acting was, as always, spot on with the main characters. Jared and Jensen have really grown from S1 and I look forward to seeing what they do through S9 - but all in all, it was a good start to a season, and as a fan who has watched this show since day one, I haven't said that about all the seasons.
ReplyDeleteit's not like they'll spend episodes and episodes searching a way to find what's wrong with him and cure him, he's fine for now, no need to search.
ReplyDeleteAnd what do you expect, it's the story of the boys saving the world over and over, they can't stay wihout a scratch and win every single fight. Normal that they get hurt, bad, from time to time and have to fight to stay alive. And staying alive just to keep fighting and getting hurt for what it seem like forever is sure hard, so it was understandable and a new angle to pursuit to have Sammy wanting to give up the fight.
Wow that how you start a season. I think you guys are right about Ezekiel not gonna get out of Sam that easy. But than again cass trust him so for now i will I think lol.
ReplyDelete"Dean in it for obligatory screen time?"
ReplyDeleteDean interacted with every single important character on the show; Sam, Bobby, Castiel, Ezekiel, 3 angels who tried to kill him, the doctor and grief counselor, Death and probably others. Sam interacted with Dean, Bobby, Death, and Ezekiel. Castiel interacted with Haley, Dean, the guy on the phone, the guy in the truck.
How can you call Dean's time with Sam obligatory screen time? Yes, most of it wasn't really Dean, but to Sam Dean was the part of him that wanted Sam to fight to live. Compare that "obligatory screen time" to the short time Sam had in What is and What Should never be when the Sam in Dean's mind was a vanilla, clueless automaton. Then, compare that to the 5 minute stint of Sam as Lucifer in The End. That wasn't really Sam, but without that scene Jared wouldn't have hardly been in the episode... kind of like the episode that he wasn't in for even a minute... In the Beginning.
In this episode, Dean was the focus of everything. His goal was to save Sam, but Sam didn't really even have a goal. Sam was just reacting. Dean was acting. Heck, Sam was unconscious for about half of his screen time. Just because Dean cares about Sam and fights to save him, it does not make him a supporting character. Is the person in the passenger seat in charge, or is the driver? Who makes the decisions, who interacts with the characters?
I got very excited for a minute during the episode because I thought "OMG, Sam is going to have a talk with Bobby... just the two of them!" Then, I remembered, Bobby is just a representation of the part of Sam that wants to die... So, they aren't really having a heart to heart. The only real person Sam talked to in the entire episode, besides himself was Death for a brief scene (that too is a first), and the real Dean briefly or it could have been a "too good" Ezekiel imitation of Dean.
If Sam doesn't interact with anybody and lays in a bed for 1/3 of the episode, how can the show revolve around him? How is Sam being possessed an arc for Sam? What are we going to learn about Sam by having Ezekiel riding shotgun. It is something interesting for Jared to portray, but it is another quick way to wipe out damage that was supposed to be permanent -- like Sam's Hell trauma. At least Dean's Hell trauma stuck around for years and was explored and discussed by Dean. Sam's trauma was mostly discussed by other characters until it came to a head right before Castiel erased / shifted it.
I just don't understand your thinking. When Dean's time on screen for an entire episode is less than a minute and Sam has 35 minutes or more, then I would call it obligatory.
I enjoyed every second of it. I loved Tahmoh, I'm sorry that's the last we'll be seeing of him. The parts in Sam's head were very interesting. I'm pleased that Bobby wasn't actually ~brought back~ it was just a part of Sam's psyche taking his form. Great acting on Jensen's part, as always. And I was just giggling or swooning over everything that Castiel did. Misha is very, very attractive.
ReplyDeleteI think we're supposed to be discussing if what Dean did to save Sam was right/wrong or fuzzy and in between. And this is a case where the show is telling us there's no perfect answer, just as Ezekiel told Dean. Dean chose *his* best answer - he wants Sam to live.
ReplyDeleteExcellent writing, directing, and incredible acting. I am more excited then I was and that was a lot.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Ezekiel said it wasn't a good option, but it seems to be working. If Ezekiel leaves when Sam is better, it is not the worst secret these guys have kept. If Ezekiel doesn't leave, that is another story... but I don't think it would be Dean's fault. What option did he have? Even if Sam would have been happy enough to have passed over, it would have destroyed Dean (as it should have destroyed Sam at the end of Season 7).
ReplyDeleteI want to cling to the hope that Ezekiel is one of the good guys. While I am open to the possibility that he might deceive them, I want to hope for the better because of his promising first appearance.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that'll be the last we'll see of Tahmoh. For a while, sure. But I think eventually, he'll have to go back to that vessel once he leaves Sam.
ReplyDeleteJust read that Ezekiel doesn't want Cas around and he'll want him out of the bunker when Dean tells him to go there...
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with this. And judging the spoilers we got so far, the first 7 episodes are going to be heavily on Dean exploration.
ReplyDeleteEp 1 - Dean did everything pratically.
Ep 2 - Focus on Dean and Abaddon.
Ep 3 - Dean is worried about Castiel and he needs to find him.
Ep 4 - Despite Charlie being a caracter that I thought would be more Sam related at first, we are going to get more Dean/Charlie bounding, according to Thompson gushing about it.
Ep 5 now 7 - Heavily emotional to Dean, where we and Sam are suppose to learn a new side of Dean. The one with the Dean's hook-up.
Ep 6 now 5 - Dean talks to animals. It is supposed to be a dream coming true for him. Isn't the same guy who hates dogs and cats?
Ep 7 now 6 - Jared was barely on set shooting this one. According to SE Hinton is a very Dean episode, and he will be the hero, helping Cas.
So how are we going to get some Sam development in middle of all this? If part of his time, he is not even him but Ezekiel? If he has nobody to talk to beside Dean? Castiel will get it, since his storyline is happening away from the Winchesters, so he has to be the focus.
This is not a hate this or that caracter situation. I really don't understand why there is complaining about no central storyline for Dean. The guy gets everything else, to the point that some people think that him being way too much explored is killing some of the enjoyment of the show. There are so much they can do with Dean before repeting issues, and we already saw that.
Exactly. I have said before that without these type of sl's for Sam he would not have much else. It isnt really character exploration it is using Sam . The stories are what they are and Dean is always in the thick of it.
ReplyDeleteSecrets between the brothers. Always reason of big trouble.
ReplyDeleteMediocre episode.
ReplyDeleteThis show has put together 5-6 consecutive "meh" episodes.
Last years finale was the worst season finale I could remember that didn't come from the team that did the series finale for Dexter.
Prior to that, I don't know if they had 3 consecutive "meh" episodes ever.
Its like watching an All-star athlete returning from a disappointing season, you expect he'll bounce back, but this might actually just be the continuation of a declining skill set.
I completely disagree. This episode has got me excited for the next 22 episodes. I loved every minute of it. I thought the boys were great. I thought Cas having difficulty with the fact that he wasn't angel anymore both touching and funny. Everyone did a great job. The addition of all the angels and their anger and confusion was great. The emotion between Sam and Dean fighting over if Sam would live or die was heartfelt and reminded of season 2 premiere. I also love the season 8 finale as well.
ReplyDeleteI tried to just be OK with whatever we got. Between Sam being possessed without his consent (which is sickening, and will likely be completely glossed over, beyond some angst and brooding and yelling and maybe a thrown punch around midseason), and yet another female character brought in solely to be "evil" and be killed, I can't say I was thrilled.
ReplyDeleteI liked the performances, and I liked that Cas and Dean were acting like adults in their conversation.
Sam has to have the mythology or he's have nothing, as it is he once again nothing more than a plot device
ReplyDeleteSo does this mean you will finally stop watching a show you dislike?
ReplyDeleteLoved it - back to basics with the Winchesters :D:D:D:D can't wait for the rest of the season and many more after!!!!
ReplyDeleteIf they shrug off Sam being violated, yes, I will. I don't watch TV shows to see something like that treated as no big deal, or as "hot," as I have seen some people call it.
ReplyDeleteI really don't know what to think about this episode... In one way I loved it, it had good pace, great acting, interesting set up for characters storyline this season... but there were a few things really wrong for me like:
ReplyDelete-the whole possesing Sam thing: one for the "morality" of this and the second - s5 was about how saying yes works - if it was that easy, why Lucifer didn't do that?
-do angels know or not what expelled them from heaven and if they know, how? They just assumed it (Heal asked him so she wasn't sure) because it is always Castiel's fault or what? And if they don't know, why are they hunting him?
-as it was stated in the beginning of the episode: they stopped the trial so that Sam could live - I get why he would like to finally have peace and die but in this situation as stupid as it sounds it is a real waste and he should have just proceeded with the trial
-Bobby was kind of a projection of Sam's mind so why did he say that Dean didn't help with rescuing him from hell? If it wasn't for him and Benny, they'd stay in Purgatory
But not to say that I only complain: I liked a lot the whole idea of the things happening is Sam's head, Sam being Sam and Ezekiel, I really liked Heal, the way they managed Castiel in this episode, Dean and Cas conversation mature, even them filled with care and not with accusations etc., Death as always ;), Crowley in the trunk.
I also like Ezekiel even thought I think it was stupid of Dean to just believe him (and if Cas says he is a good soldier, I would be even more careful) and yeah, I know how desperate he was. I don't think that when the time comes, he would just leave Sam. Maybe he will try to hurt Cas while in Sam's body?
Also, goodbye trenchcoat, you will be missed:(
But, overall the premiere definitely left me wanting more and that is a good thing :)
This start was great and all as everyone is saying, but I want to point out something which is ignored,.. or doesn't bother the others(?). I was so excited about Death and what grand role he will play this time, but this... this was so un-epic, I mean what? Just swinging around to do a reaper work?!!! And he feels honored?!! One of the most dashing characteristics of Death was his vast ego and self respect, someone who doesn't take himself less than God, and now a mere human (like an ant in his words, no matter what huge role they could play in the universe) gives him honor!! A major OOC here if you ask me. At first I thought he was the portrayal of dying in Sam's mind, ... would be better if it was that way.
ReplyDeleteAwesome. I was so excited to watch it and it was worth for watching about 1am lol. It is so awesome to have spn back :)
ReplyDeleteAnd I forgot the most important thing: GEORGE THOROGOOD!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI think it's more about showing him the road to "his" redemption.
ReplyDeleteBut it's a device to lead Sam down his road to his redemption. He said he's willing to cross over as long as no more people get hurt and he can't be brought back. Dean's talk in the car, like Bobby's walk in the woods was validation of what Sam has done. It was as if Sam thought he was only killing monsters all this time.
ReplyDeleteThat interesting I wonder why? It seem when Dean said his name and smile that he was a good guy. But all the angel are got to get them so I guess it can be a trick. That sad because I kinda like him.
ReplyDeleteLucifer probably could have done that. I guess he didn't because it would have been too easy. Perhaps the archangels are just really cocky in thinking they can convince stupid little humans of letting them in? That would be my guess anyway.
ReplyDeleteCarver: you did it again! It was a very cool episode. Good mix between humor and drama. A bit repetitive brothers arguing scenes.... (I'm a little tired of that and hope it will finally over) I love Ezequiel, I trust him. He could have others intentions, no doubt, but I hope he will not betray anyone, I saw it in Cas eyes when he listened his name. Dean care about Sam, but i feel he also care about Castiel, perhaps it was only me, wish not.
ReplyDeleteBut Dear Jeremy I'm not gonna forgive you by having the King of Hell this whole time in the trunk! Dean: you gonna pay this one xD
I agree with you right there and hope that will happen Sam forgives Dean a lot so I can see him doing that to.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the first half of season eight almost chased me away from the show. The second half broght me back. The Purgatory stuff was good, but Sam not looking for Dean was so out of character that I couldn't even watch the show and take it seriously. The MOL added something good enough to help me get past Carver's sin.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, the first ep of season 8 let a bad taste that tainted the whole season. My favorite part of the season was Purgatory and Benny and they ended that to soon for me. Sam NOT looking ruined the whole thing and I still have not bought the DVD...waiting for it to get down to $10 or less.
ReplyDeletewhich motherfucker voted awful ?
ReplyDeleteIA, it's stunning and the Angel "earsplitting voice sounds" is a great addition to the demonic roar sounds! I'm not the biggest angel storyline fan but new title card was an exact fit with the S8 finale.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with your whole post. Outside of enjoying 'Sam' in a few episodes up to 8.09, the Purgatory storyline 'saved' the Fall episodes for me. "Samelia" and the whole "Sam-not-looking-for-Dean-at-all" were ***huge fails*** for me.
ReplyDeleteI had forgotten to mention the title card..it is super, will be one of my favorites.
ReplyDeleteawesome
ReplyDeletethey rocked it
and the logo was so bad ass