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POLL : What did you think of Person of Interest - Mors Praematura?

30 Oct 2013

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54 comments:

  1. This one was one of the very best of POI , its in my Top 3 of all time POI episodes :)


    Everything worked tonight , the main plot, the sub plot and the overall mythology worked perfectly well here this one deserves 10 on 10!!!!!!!

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  2. Not to mention it's been way too long since we've seen a scene between root and finch for me the ending was the most intense and shaw punching out root was funny too

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  3. Yes the scene between Finch and Root was icing on the cake

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  4. So good and brilliant like Razgovor or maybe even more. Machine is so smart bring Root and Shaw, and later Finch and Reese to save two victims.


    The show bring the american revolution to the plot is just fantastic I remember the first poster of season 3. POI have the most clever writers ever.


    Another good thing Peter Collier now knows Reese, can't wait to see this two meet again.


    My favorite scene was the dialogue between Finch and Root, fantastic.


    Can't wait for the next episode.


    P.S: I need more Fusco, he appears in this one, but just for a few minutes we need more of him.

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  5. Best lines of the season, so far:
    Looks like you got a fun one, You don't know the half of it!

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  6. Lots of interesting bits, but I didn't think it added up all that well. Too many disconnected things going on.

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  7. Wow, just Wow. Definitely in my top 5 POI episodes ever. More Finch and Root scenes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  8. I...I shipped Root and Shaw even more after the actual episode...someone make it stop! I don't want to be one of those shippers! Maybe if I just wrote a fic it will get out of my system. No! That will just lead me deeper down the rabbit hole.


    I must find a cure before it spreads.

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  9. Fantastic ep! Kudos to the writers for blending the 2 storylines into one and both kicked butt! Good to see Kirk Acevedo onscreen again, and really liked the Root/Shaw team up and am extremely curious how this will proceed with Root almost too close at hand and "cut off from her deity" (at least for now). Loved how Finch questioned the machine's motives and then posed the question to Root if where she is is what the the machine intended.. the only big bummer was the minute of screentime that Fusco got... hopefully we'll get a more Fusco centric ep soon...

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  10. Awesome episode! Loved Root/Shaw working together and it ending up tying together with Reese/Finch's side of the story. Curious what the new dynamic will be with Root in the library. And I think Harold was right, maybe the machine wants her there... for what reason though is left to be determined. At any rate, I'm looking forward to more of our guys, Shaw, and Bear to interact with Root.



    The only gripe: can we throw Fusco a bone and have him do something more than a minute's worth?

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  11. Good to know Shaw has the basic groups covered in her fridge: handguns, full-auto machine
    guns, high-powered sniper rifles, grenades and random explosive materials.... Oh yeah, and 2% milk. XD

    I am officially annoyed that we have seen more of Bear than Fusco!
    Also, why bring Bear along if you are not going to pay attention to his whining protective noises?

    Nice to see Kirk Aceveda again!
    I would have loved a Scarlie reference or a comment about bug-lady though! XD
    Maybe him saying instead of "Lookout for rats" to "Lookout for bugs!" XD

    I guess Reese did not watch Veronica Mars!
    Always check the AC/ heat vents for contraband!

    Nice to see the return of the mysterious Vigilance agent Peter Collier from episode 3.01!!

    This is the type of episode that is new to this season with so many new characters shoe-horned into the series. They set them up as individual arcs and inevitably those arcs meet in a shocking twist. Well shocking if you don't expect it like the previous time... and the time before that...


    I would have preferred the episode be about getting Shaw back from Root than a episode split three ways. these highly fragmented episodes are rarely as good as the single arc driven episodes and this was not an exception. With three arcs it takes too many highly contrived elements to meet up in the desired locations.



    This was just a good episode for me.

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  12. InvestedInYourFuture30 October 2013 at 09:00

    Oh finch. You are biting off more than you can chew. Can't wait to see his face when Machine throws a temper tantrum over him having imprisoned Root.


    Also, oh my gods, Root and Shaw Scenes. Just. Root and Shaw scenes.


    9000/5

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  13. start_wearing_purple30 October 2013 at 09:47

    Root and Finch have been classic story enemies, so similar and yet so different. However the writers have subtly moved the Root/Finch debate over the Machine from tool or intelligence to something resembling science versus religion. I'm impressed and fascinated by the whole thing.

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  14. This season just keeps getting better and better! Hope we won't have to deal with any stupid breaks this season like half of S2, any word on that btw?

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  15. This was one of the few times this year that i have actually voted awesome for any episode of any show. Being the jaded cynic that I am, I usually stop at great. I only vote awesome if an episode really, really, really knocks me off my feet. This was the second time this year that that has happened with an episode of this show.

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  16. I see your point, but the one-liners truly were VERY awesome! So awesome, that I'll overlook a few holes in the plot, this time.
    That thing with the air vent stuck out at me too, by the way. Hadn't the CIA supposedly "cleansed" Jason Greenfield's apartment before they faked his death. I remember thinking, "how could a CIA team have missed such an obvious hiding place?"

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  17. Another super fantastic episode!!!


    The Random Bad Robot stuff:


    Fringe: Kirk Avecido Guest stars as a 'wanna be' detective (In Fringe he was a Fringe Agent Charlie Francis), Storage Facility (Pilot), and Blue Letter Code is similar to Blue Glyph Alphabet. Fun line from Root to Greensfeild: " A Fringe Group of Activists"


    Alias: Avecido's character's name in POI is Timothy Sloan. In Alias one of the main villains is Arvin Sloane and a bit of trivia: The Fringe character name "Charlie Francis" may come from Alias' Francie, who was dating a guy named Charlie and both Fracie and Charlie Francis are doubled/have stolen identity with technology. (Project Helix/Shapeshifting Tech)


    Revolution: Name Jason and references to revolutionary iconic figures (In Revolution we have "General Monroe" and the concept of Monroe Republic). -May foreshadow Jason's Neville role, as his fate seems unclear. And "The Vigilists" may be similar to "The Patriots". This aspect of the show goes hand in hand with the comic con POI spoof historic Boat/Liberty Island painting.


    About the episode: So it's nice to be able to know that Collier's (sp?) group has a name The Vigilist and what their crazy slogan is "Eternal Vigilist is the Price of Liberty". So there are division of the CIA or am i missing something...or did they just lie to Greensfeild?


    The Shaw with Root was a lot of fun! It's interesting that there is a "third" category now. I wonder what it will be called? And I still wonder if the Machine is still working for the greater good and/or if Harold has created something that is forming some unjust opinions? I have a feeling in the end that the Machine will lead Root into a trap, if need be.


    It sounds like we'll see Timothy Sloan again, which I think is great since it looks like we're a little low on nice reoccurring characters. (Leon, Zoe). Kind of sad there was no Fusco again though :(


    Loved also seeing Shaw and Reese pass each other twice in the middle of this crazy man hunt/extraction scene!XD And interesting that poor little Lanskey is a Russian after all (nice way to keep the theme and plots going in previous episodes).


    One thing though, I'm surprised that we still haven't gotten to "Ma'am"!!!!

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  18. The scene with Finch & Sloane in the storage area was a rip off of Alias. Alias did the same scene in their 1st season.

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  19. Shaw's living space was rather interesting! (I guess this is like the Super 8 add where it tells kids not to do drugs, but instead this is "milk does a body good" XD) And I think they brought Bear along so that the audience can feel the suspense and be smarter than Finch and Timothy! And boy doI wish there would have been a "bug" line XD


    I actually really loved the way everything came together. I agree you can't always get as good of an emotional story when doing that, but I felt that they still managed to squeeze some in, especially Timothy and Finch, but I am still impressed that it worked so well. I don't know who directed this one, but I think they deserve kudos on the execution. The three way plot parallels the now "3" categories of the goal of the machine!

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  20. Unless Finch is right and that the machine wants her there for the moment...I mean the thing with Fate and probability is "timing" and "destination" and so it's possible that Finch is right in that she is where the Machine wants her....But I don't think we're going to be able to know who's perspective is really right until we see what this third category really is and if it poses conflicts of interest, because it's possible that machine is taking on more than it can chew and/or that it's agenda has changed and may no longer be considered working for the absolute good (and or what it's creator deems as "good").

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  21. I thought the episode was a bit too all-over-the-place too, until everything came together at the end. The HR/Carter bits were perhaps a bit too much, but I suppose they couldn't have ignored that part of the story either after last week's episode.


    By the way, Collier hit Kirk Acevedo's character in the face where Charlie's scar was. That worked as a Fringe reference for me. ;)

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  22. The official POI Twitter account:
    ''Possibilities for Root/Shaw shipper name include RAW and SHOOT #meanttobe #PersonOfInterest @AmyAcker @onlysarahshahi''

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  23. I would not have been concerned, except this is not the first time they've taken an idea used by another writer. In the episode Critical the idea for saving the wife in the park is from The Bourne Ultimatum movie. Bourne talks a writer, who is in danger, thru escaping the bad guys. There was some differences between the movie and POI, but the concept and most of the action remained the same. There was another instance that a different person talked about. I paid not attention to it at the time, but I wish I could remember now.

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  24. Donnie Keshawarz, who appeared in this episode, played Essam on LOST and a smaller role on Fringe ''The Ghost Network''!

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  25. OH, Good catch! I missed that one!!!! XD

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  26. Two episodes ago they kind of used the plot of the film "Double Jeopardy"...But I think reusing something, 'sometimes', I think is a form of a compliment.

    In Alias the first episode features several references and allusions to "Run Lola Run" and then the structure and subject matter of The Pilot also parallels and juxtaposes subject matter in Mission Impossible 3.

    IMO they reference SO many things for the sake of the love of those works.

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  27. InvestedInYourFuture30 October 2013 at 15:57

    I do think it will be the middle ground - Machine WILL have wanted Root to end up there, but she/it wanted that specifically so she/it could show why she does NOT want Root to end up there. Trial and Error - the same way one would try to teach an AI - Machine wanted Root to be captured so it could show FInch that she should NOT be captured.

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  28. Exactly.
    When I first heard Shaw was coming on-board as a co-star I was excited because I thought it would lead to more complex, less contrived stories with more pieces in play. Instead we have been getting less complicated stories that are filled with one-liners and even more contrivances than before.


    IT is still a lot of un, and as you said, the one-liners are indeed awesome, but they were also awesome the first two years when the cases had more meat to them.

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  29. I guess it just annoyed me that the 2 plots intersected as they did given the obviousness of that outcome from the title. Mors Praematura, means something like premature death or died before their time.


    We had a "dead" guy....so he was obviously the one that would turn up not dead
    *shrug*
    .

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  30. I don't see a tantrum coming...
    The machine put Root on a case and Finch on a case knowing both would intersect. The machine wanted them to meet up or it would have helped Root avoid capture.


    I do think that the Machine has 'affection' for Root and a use for her, but it if did not want her grabbed by Team Machine it would have kept Root out of their hands.

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  31. Those are actually pretty fun shipper names. I don't usually ship publicly, simply because I don't watch a show for any particular ship alone and/or try to respect the writers decisions on relationships, but I think in my mind I'll probably enjoy "Shoot" while it lasts.

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  32. That's mostly what I'm thinking too. I still think Harold knows the machine better than Root since it's basically stemming from his ethical standards, but I do wonder if there is going to be 'conflicts of interest' and if the machine is going to make certain variables more at risk to being expendable???

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  33. InvestedInYourFuture30 October 2013 at 17:03

    Unless the tantrum is exactly what Machine wants do to.


    Machine might wanted to let Finch capture Root to be able to show why Root should NOT be captured in order to get that out of the way.

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  34. Yeah I see Root as an unforeseen chaos factor, a catalyst for the Machine's evolution. Not a long term player.


    During that evolution there could be (should be) conflicts of interest, but when it comes down to it The Machine is Finch's baby, not Root's. I simply do not think the series will go the malevolent A.I. route like Terminator and the like.

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  35. I wonder if the Machine still thinks of Harold as a sort of "father figure." He did mention last season that it had become overly protective of him, at one point. I seem to remember various shows and movies in which a robot or computer that had developed super intelligence still retained a sort of "fathr complex" towards its maker. The only such memeory that I can place just now is the first Star Trek movie, though.

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  36. That sounds passive aggressive and petty to me and I do not see the Machine going down that road. It is not emotional and would play games of emotion to accomplish desired tasks when it is more logical (and easier) to simply work towards those goals directly.


    Protecting Root from Team Machine would have given Finch the same lesson and faster.


    The machine may work to relocate Root and reestablish contact, but not because it wants to teach Finch or Reese a lesson.

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  37. Did you hear? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rockford-files-film-universal-nabs-651481

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  38. I recall that too...
    I never took it as an emotional bond though. To me it was more of a utilitarian or self-preservation drive. After all, it is designed to protect people. Protecting its creator seems like a logical extension of that.


    It really brings into question the endgame of the series I guess.


    Personally, I see the Machine always working to protect those in danger or expose those who are dangerous. I do not see this series going down the (ironically) "bad robot" road with an artificial intelligence becoming emotionally or having an agenda contradictory to its original purpose. I fond that trope played out honestly.


    I can see it doing things in its own way that Finch may not understand at first.

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  39. Ha! XD
    Thanks I had not read that yet.


    I would have preferred Josh Holloway to Vince Vaughn honestly. I see Intelligence as almost doomed to fail and Rockford has a better chance to catch on and be renewed.

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  40. OK, so the Machine doesn't become Skynet. Another option is that the Machine "means too well" and ends up smothering humanity with its overprotectiveness. That's been played before,too...although, again, I can't quite remember where...outside of a couple of science fiction stories I once read.

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  41. I actually did take it as an emotional bond, as it "went out of it's way" to PLEASE Finch...

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  42. I was torn at first, but came to the non-emotional side in the end.

    I did not take it as going "out of its way" as much as it was going "away from the protocol" designed by Finch. To me it seems more like a bypass of protocol than true emotion. It was taking a short cut and Finch told it to not protect him of its normal numbers. Stick to the protocol.

    The Machine is always extrapolating data to find people to protect or expose. Having a close connection to Finch means it will always see Finch's impending danger faster and without going through the usual data mining routine. Finch was in danger and possibly worthy of being a "number" in my opinion.

    In fact, on top of that, I saw Finch's comments more of a weighted statement against himself. Do not save me because there are other numbers in danger. I took it as part of Finch's guilt and feeling he should not be saved. If nothing else, his determination he should not be saved AHEAD of other numbers.

    Since that time I do not recall it happening, but I could have forgotten a moment easily. If it happens again and the Machine sacrifices others to save Finch then I will think it is more emotional, but not yet.

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  43. Another trope for sure.


    I just have no clue of the endgame the showrunner/ writers want honestly. If they even have an endgame in mind! XD


    To me, The Machine as an instrument of drama, the plot device driving the series could be enough. It could remain in some form close to its desired purpose and various humans could be the variables.


    I might like an ending of Finch and Reese having been exposed, caught or killed and the Machine reaching out to someone new. A phone call to a stranger (or a character that appeared sometime earlier in the series), and then the synthesized voice giving a code of the next number. End scene.


    Right now I'm just enjoying the ride (although less than the first two seasons) without trying to figure out the series end I guess! XD

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  44. InvestedInYourFuture30 October 2013 at 18:33

    First of all, Machine is not exactly "logical". She/it has been quite child-like in flashbacks, developing certain father-complex towards Finch. It also has a sense of "identity", since it was capable of creating one for itself. It also can be coerced as Reese showcased in S2 premiere.



    But even if we take only logical side of it, its an exactly logical way to showcase it. That's how programs are written(a failure condition has to be there) and that's also essentially how AIs are "taught" - an "unfavorable" outcome being made is a requirement so it could correct itself. So if situation is repeated the AI would choose the different one from the one deemed "unfavorable".


    Thus Machine leads Finch into making the said "Unfavorable" decision to showcase the correct way of action on repeated occasions(if there would be any). Its completely logical because that's most likely how it/she was "taught" too. Its all about asserting control over WHO is the "leader". Finch seems to believe he is, but in reality they all ARE just assets Machine allows to use its info for. Machine was made for a goal and its fulfilling it, now arguably out of its own identity, instead of programming.



    And at the same time not only it allows her/it to relocate Root, but also helps to establish the "third team" as reality, makes it easy to save possible "asset" AND makes sure that Root and Shaw might NOT try to flatten each other with a baseball bat the next time they are presented to each other.

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  45. InvestedInYourFuture30 October 2013 at 18:44

    But does Harold KNOW the machine or does Harold think he knows the machine. There's a very nice allusion to science versus religion in this. Harold represents science, complete unbound free will, Root in this case represents Faith, a sense of destiny and fate and both are observing the exact same object of deification. Is Root there because Finch is going against fate or was it fate that brought it there? And that's why both of them can't fully comprehend or grasp it.


    Because in order to fully comprehend the nature of the object, The Machine, they are observing, both sides would HAVE to perceive it in the way Machine does it, and neither is capable of it, doomed to endless debate of which ever viewpoint is correct...that is till the Machine itself indicates it one way or the other.

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  46. That's true and in other comments I suggest that the machine might evolve past the expectations of Harold, but I'm not sure that we have crossed that bridge yet, but rather treading, as you have said, in the middle.

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  47. Your right in that it hasn't happened again, but at the same time we don't know if there's a catch 22 in being simultaneous with it's task to do what Finch had said, but yet still protect Finch.

    I guess only time will tell :)

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  48. You could be right...given that the series is canceled in such a way that they even have the chance to end the series properly, when the end comes.
    However, the writers have had Root call the Machine a God or tell Harold not to piss off the most powerful being on earth multiple times. That makes me think that they might be willing to at least play with the the fear that the Machine could become an all-powerful and "world-dominating" entity.

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  49. great episode, just love it, way better than previous episodes of this season

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  50. I liked last week's better but it was a good episode nonetheless. I liked how their stories were interconnected and call me naive, but I didn't see it coming. I still have some issues with all the revamping of the show I have to say. They have me warming up to Shaw in one episode to just feeling meh towards her the next one. I mean... It's not that I mind her, but I would much rather spend more time with John and Harold. John hasn't had a proper storyline centered on him this season IMO, and that's something I don't appreciate too much. It's like I've said before: it's not like the show had a gap that needed to be fullfilled, it didn't. It was just fine, which is why I don't understand very well this. As for Root, I like her, but turning a villain into a series regular is a problem because as people were commenting in the ratings thread, makes our heroes seem weak long run since they can never take them down. We shall see. The action scene after the crash was awesome and I also liked the CIA scenes. But my favorite scene was John telling Harold he was there for him if he needed him. Also, not nearly enough baddass aka. agent carter.

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  51. We will have to, it is impossible not to because seasons don't have more than 22-24 episodes and there are more weeks than that on the regular TV Season. So either we have breaks or we have a long winter hiatus and two mostly uninterrupted runs. Because most CBS shows, including POI, are procedurals, they always go for the first option.

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  52. I felt the same too until the middle of the episode. When the storylines merged (except for Carter's), I was fine with it.

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  53. it's a double reference to Fringe as well (storage facility is featured in it's Pilot) and it's not a rip off, as Bad Robot often references themselves in every work as apart of their tapestry in a tapestry conceptual idea. It keeps their work "alive" and promotes the fate-everything is connected idea. It's one reason why you see so many of their actors get recast and or guess star. there are also 2 episodes coming up that have near identical titles to Alias episodes (and two of their regular cast members are Alias alumni) You can see that even Fringe's ideas come from Alias season 3 episode 9 "Remnants" , as most of season 3 was more 'fringe' science like than most other Alias seasons.

    As a Bad Robot fan I usually make notes of the references in every Bad Robot episode I watch.

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