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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Goodbye Stranger?

21 Mar 2013

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153 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl21 March 2013 at 02:01

    I loved it, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Meg. I'm not giving up hope, though!

    And oh God, I ship Meg/Cas like burning. HE WAS HER UNICORN. I CAN'T EVEN. AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME SEX, BUT THERE DEFINITELY COULD HAVE BEEN.

    AND CAS SNAPPED OUT OF IT AND TOOK A BUS AND I LOVED THE SONG AT THE END SO MUCH.


    And yay, Dean knows about Sam and nooo at him being too damaged. I'm glad that's out there!

    Great episode but still pissed about Meg dying.

    ReplyDelete
  2. MarissaAO21 March 2013 at 02:02

    Well I hated that they killed Meg, but otherwise it was really intense and really awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  3. chris68421 March 2013 at 02:02

    Did they really just set up a scenario of Sam telling someone about his past year and what he was thinking and make that conversation take place all off screen?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Joseph Lee21 March 2013 at 02:03

    Why do we need an entire scene of backstory and exposition of things we already know?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Elena Wonderland21 March 2013 at 02:03

    I'm really not in a good mental health state right now to even write down a proper comment.I think I might have sustained 3 strokes and 4 cardiac arrests during the episode.BEST EPISODE OF THE SEASON hands DOWN.I loved everything about it....I might right later because I just...can't...right...now...


    Dean to Cas: I NEED YOU *DIES*

    ReplyDelete
  6. Jessie21 March 2013 at 02:05

    Yes, they did. Right after they sidelined him so that Dean and Castiel can go off and have their moment.

    ReplyDelete
  7. ZoeF21 March 2013 at 02:06

    So, was that the same prosthetic beat face the used on Dean for Swan Song? Looked the same. When in doubt of storyline, beat up Dean.

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  8. Thirty21 March 2013 at 02:06

    Come on. The split second they discussed "if" I said "Well, she's done".


    It's a drag to see the show liquidate it's supporting cast. Better be in service of something great.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Thirty21 March 2013 at 02:08

    Same face? It was almost the same scene.

    ReplyDelete
  10. chris68421 March 2013 at 02:08

    Because we're on what, the 17th episode, and we still haven't gotten Sam's perspective yet.

    ReplyDelete
  11. MythAl21 March 2013 at 02:10

    I agree. Sam was so sidelined in this episode. And we have Crowley and Meg in her final episode, but the focus was on Dean and Cas making faces at each other. Blah.

    ReplyDelete
  12. chris68421 March 2013 at 02:11

    Meg was once an interesting character but not since Abandon All Hope. This very human Meg is not a demon and is not Meg.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Lissie_Bee21 March 2013 at 02:11

    I apologize in advance for this mostly being about Castiel, but let's face it - that's how the episode went most of the night haha...

    First of all, OH MY GOSH, all those dead Deans... so creepy! I really enjoyed seeing more of the extent of Naomi's manipulation... Cas was really just like a puppet. Though I did love seeing that his true nature was always trying to break through, and that he really tried not to obey her outright in some instances. I also really enjoyed Castiel's talk with Meg - I feel like it's the most laid-back we've ever seen him, and it was kind of nice to see him without his guard up. I also absolutely loved Crowley tonight - I know he wasn't a huge player, but his snark was back in full force.

    But that FIGHT... hoo boy... Cas as a mindless, automaton killer was so chilling to see... though I'm glad his penchant for siding with his humans prevailed. I was hoping he'd come to that on his own and Sam and Meg wouldn't have to get involved.

    And I do believe my favorite quote of the episode goes to Cas, and it also may have been the most awkward haha - "You know, I can hear you both... I'm a celestial being." Sam and Dean's faces were absolutely priceless, like it hadn't really occurred to them. Great episode, in my opinion. But that could be in part due to the fact that I'm a huge Cas fan and am glad to see him back.

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  14. percysowner21 March 2013 at 02:13

    I am now convinced that Sam will always be sidelined, except for the scenes where we are reminded that he abandoned Dean, while Cas overcame angelic brainwashing to stay true to Dean and Meg is more loyal than Sam ever was.

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  15. Kirsten Roberts21 March 2013 at 02:13

    I had to pick' awesome' because you guys don't have a 'ripped your heart into pieces' option.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 02:15

    I agree with and support all of this. I will greatly miss Meg. :( I didn't necessarily ship Megstiel, but I was dang close. I've always loved the character, and definitely loved the more recent actor. Very glad Meg died with a symblance of humanity in her. Castiel brought it out in her, and its something she really realized by the end.

    Sad Meg is gone. Loved the action scenes. The graphics, where they were in this episode at least, looked better. Everything /felt/ better, with a better flow. Great story.

    Favorite line? "Wait..I get everything but one thing; You hit a dog and you stopped. Why?" Paraphrasing here, but I laughed so hard.

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  17. ZoeF21 March 2013 at 02:15

    Sad they wasted Meg's death on such a trivial scene. The last surviving S1 character deserves better. I hope there's some trick and she's still alive.

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  18. ZoeF21 March 2013 at 02:16

    Touche!

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  19. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 02:16

    I've seen quite a bit of Sam's perspective. There's only so much you can do with 'hit a dog, fell in love, didn't really have a reason for not searching for his brother beyond that'

    ReplyDelete
  20. MontyFree21 March 2013 at 02:17

    Especially with Carver at the wheel. He doesn't seem to care much for the character at all.

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  21. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 02:18

    Figured she was a gonner when they hinted that this would be a dramatic, sad episode in which someone was getting offed. :( But yeah, it was even more evident when they set Meg up to show that she really cared for Cas, and Cas cared for her. Perfect time to kill off a long time member of the show ;( I'll miss her. The show's only redeemable demon and she dies and no one else cares to even mention it! Not Dean or Sam or Cas.

    ReplyDelete
  22. MythAl21 March 2013 at 02:19

    What I found funny was the Swan Song repeat. But that was about overcome Lucifer and stop the apocalypse. Hardly the same thing.

    ReplyDelete
  23. chris68421 March 2013 at 02:21

    Except that everyone always has a reason, and the fact that neither of us know at this late stage what that is is a pretty big hole. And Sam's comment to Meg - that the only thing she got from it was that he hit a dog - hinted that there was a story.

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  24. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 02:22

    Doubt it's a trick. Its sad though, yes. but they need to stop bringing dead characters back. The whole 'fiery death thing' has always been final, and I'd hate for that to change. I actually thought her death was pretty poetic. She was a demon who came to have redeeming qualities, and actually became somewhat good.. and she died to no fan-fair, to no one caring to do much more then look back and drive off. Not even a mention from any of them. Sad as it is, it felt appropriate.


    I'm just really glad that Meg knew before she died that Cas cared for her.

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  25. Thirty21 March 2013 at 02:22

    Exactly. Lousy rehash of an important scene.

    ReplyDelete
  26. MythAl21 March 2013 at 02:23

    And don't forget Benny The Good, who is the best vampire that ever exist, the one whonevel let Dean down.

    ReplyDelete
  27. KM21 March 2013 at 02:23

    Why dear merciful god in heaven can't they keep their own canon straight? I don't get paid a DIME and somehow I can remember that Crowley was born in Scotland no more than a few hundred years ago. How did he have a thing with Naomi in Mesopotamia? /eye roll. And it is now official...we have the tablet bearer and his faithful man-servant. The show can't get any more blatant than that. Crapfest. Absolute crap.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Thirty21 March 2013 at 02:26

    Got to say the lack of a worthwhile throwdown with Crowley was pretty lame. That's been in the works for a long time only to have a totally lackluster outcome.

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  29. klutzy_girl21 March 2013 at 02:26

    No, you know what? They pulled away too quickly. I'M NOT BELIEVING MEG'S DEAD.

    ReplyDelete
  30. ZoeF21 March 2013 at 02:26

    Which is why Thompson pooped in the beer by copying it here.

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  31. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 02:31

    It felt a little rushed, yeah. But I thought it was decent for the fime frame. The really epic throwdown with Crowley should involve dean/sam/cas.

    ReplyDelete
  32. SmallvilleSupernaturalCastle21 March 2013 at 02:33

    is meg dead? seriously i was rooting for her and cas. Im glad cas is off the naomi mind rape routine but now hes gone again. thats what i hate is that the show cant keep cas around for longer then 3 episodes at a time. Theres always something that will take him away. While I get the importance of protecting the angel tablet I dont think running is the best move. Idk but dam Naomi is a bitch and she definitely deserves crowley.

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  33. TexasGreatGrams21 March 2013 at 02:34

    Can't believe how much I am enjoying this season. Season GR8 just keeps getting better & better. Love it, love it, love it

    ReplyDelete
  34. C P21 March 2013 at 02:36

    Such an intense episode.

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  35. David Fischer21 March 2013 at 02:38

    I loved the Sam/Meg, Castiel/Dean, and Megstiel moments.

    ReplyDelete
  36. rehabber21 March 2013 at 02:38

    Loved the Meg Cas talk...pizza man. LOL I don't want her to be dead! I hate when Dean gets beat up, but this did not bother me as much as when Sam/Luci was doing it. Fantastic ep.

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  37. rehabber21 March 2013 at 02:40

    I agree, I am still beating this horse...SAM DID NOT LOOK FOR DEAN. Why???

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  38. Amy Jonas21 March 2013 at 02:45

    So what about the poor INNOCENT girl Meg was possessing? meg gets sympathy but not the poor girl thyat has been tortured? Meg gets sympathy and empathy but Sam gets thrown way like yesterdays garbage? Well we know what Carver thinks of Sam

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  39. MontyFree21 March 2013 at 02:51

    There's no reason. Totally out of character even Jared thinks so.

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  40. Wilson Crawford21 March 2013 at 02:51

    This episode was going SO well...and then.. *boop* let's randomly kill Meg and not even focus on it?


    HELLO PEOPLE that was the longest-running female character/BIG bad on the show. Yes, I even count her before Azazel because she was the face of Azazel's plan long before he showed up.

    God that just pissed me off. I had always hoped they'd kill her at the every end of the series. This was just useless and ridiculous and didn't change the plot whatsoever. Why not have her just poof out at the last second when Crowley was distracted? The logic behind this...I just can't deal with it. UGH.


    Ruined an otherwise decent episode for me.

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  41. Andrezza21 March 2013 at 02:59

    Absolutely loved this episode ** and this is very strange to say but I like the Meg and I was saddened by his death, I hope that doesn't happen the same with Benny. :'I

    ReplyDelete
  42. Paula Ireri21 March 2013 at 03:02

    Nobody can write a perfect comment because we are all crying in the keyboard :'(( AMAZING EPISODE. R.I.P MEG. You were awesome, girl. Poor Cas. Poor Sam. Poor Dean D:

    ReplyDelete
  43. ZoeF21 March 2013 at 03:19

    It reminds me of Rufus - killing for no good reason at all. If you get rid of such an iconic character, do it with a memorable reason. New writers have zero respect for the past.

    ReplyDelete
  44. jensenfan197821 March 2013 at 03:25

    We finally got a good explanation of what was going on with Cas. He almost killed Dean. This episode broke my heart. It was so similar to Dean telling Sam I'm not gonna leave you, I'm here in Swan Song. In essence he did almost the same thing to Cas. I am glad that Dean now has made Sam realize he had to talk to him. No more lies. Like Dean, I'm tired of Sam's lies also. I was so sad to see the end of Meg. Her relationship with Cas was more than we realized. That ends the Destiel crud for sure. lol Her loss bothered me. I had begun to think of her as a art of Team Free Will at times. She was doing the same thing as Cas in essence. I found it interesting that Crowley and Naomi had a fling. The things we learn. I was totally shocked that Cas does not trust Dean in regards to the Angel stone

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  45. Misty Pebworth21 March 2013 at 03:31

    I agree with almost all of this. Sad to see the end of Meg, very sad. There aren't many out there who liked the idea of Meg and and Cas together, but I was one of them. I grew to like it as I grew to like Meg. She'll be missed. And I think Cas not trusting Dean with the tablet makes a lot of sense. Think about how much trouble angels have given Dean and Sam over the years, and the world. Whose to say they wouldn't feel it better to be done with angels (except for Cas) as well as Demons? Not to mention, I bet its something from the tablet affecting Cas, making it so that he needs to protect it from everything else.

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  46. MontyFree21 March 2013 at 03:32

    I'm tired of Cas always trying to kill the boys.

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  47. Manu21 March 2013 at 04:09

    Please. Such episode!!! I'm not sure about how to feel about Meg's death... She was an interesting character. And also female. You don't have too much women in SPN. So pitty...But I personally liked the fact Crowley had won, because I love him so much. Talking about Crowley... How many underwears had fallen down when he said: "I'm a lover. Not a fighter" and all that mesopotamia secret thing... I got hot!

    And Dean/Cas moments were so great. I don`t have words to tell you about my feelings!!!!

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  48. CyanaT21 March 2013 at 04:10

    I was kind of sad, too, and wanted her to pouf away too as she did in Caged Heat but her death was actually kind of heroic in a way. She got Sam (and Dean) safely away and she went toe to toe with Crowley and gave him a near mortal wound... I actually thought for a moment that Crowley would die and Meg would live.
    OT but FWIW I thought - and I'm certain many fans thought - that Bobby would live til the end of the show. too.

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  49. Kerinda Hartson21 March 2013 at 04:16

    why am I still seeing this show?because its getting more unfair buy the eps all this dean/cas lovefest and do not forget benny well I have had it I am done Carver you suck and you and you reallly F'ed up this show for me sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Kerinda Hartson21 March 2013 at 04:18

    sooo true.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Kerinda Hartson21 March 2013 at 04:25

    you know what I am tired dean allway chosing cas over sam allway thinking sam is lieing to him WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING TO SAM HE does not even know so how is going to tell dean if he does not even know what the hell is going on but cas knows and not tell PLEASE! I am just sick of it.

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  52. CyanaT21 March 2013 at 04:32

    I least Sam said something to Meg though we didn't get to hear him say it... and we got to hear her not unsymathetic reaction - "Unicorn" will stick in my mind - the show could have cut that scene out entirely, focusing only on Cas & Dean in the crypt scene. Instead Sam sort of opened up to Meg and she to him. The Meg/Sam scenes were probably one of the better if not the best -no Dean present- conversations Sam's had with a secondary character in quite a while.

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  53. Mackenzie Maddock21 March 2013 at 04:40

    I think Sam wants to die because if he can't have a normal life I don't think he cares. And that what he aways wanted from day 1

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  54. SupernaturallyMe21 March 2013 at 04:44

    I wasn't able to watch the whole episode, but the room full of dead Deans was just...creepy. Was it maybe explained as to why Naomi has it in for Dean? Or was it 'cause of Cas?

    ReplyDelete
  55. CyanaT21 March 2013 at 04:53

    True... Naomi knew Cas's one weakness = Dean. It was a little nauseating to hear Dean saying virtually the same thing he said to Lucifer!Sam in SS to Cas in GS. Dean even took a very similar beating and facially the same damage. It was a very, very redundant scene - I think RT could have gotten the similar result out of MC and JA with different fight choreography and dialog.
    So another character a tad closer to Sam has bitten the dust (Meg) and Dean still has Benny and Cas aligned with him (even though Cas in MIA atm). Sheriff Jody Mills has not been brought back and in 8.19 Naomi is going to "talk" to Dean. Sam has the trials but how long will they last?
    I know that "Dean Fans" chafe for him to have something separate from either Cas or Sam to do .... I still think Dean will still have significant involvemnt with the Angel Tablet. It may be toward the end of this season or early next season, though.

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  56. CyanaT21 March 2013 at 05:00

    I think it was because Naomi knows Cas's Achilles Heel is Dean and Cas had to overcome that weakness... I know she anticipated the time when Cas and Dean would want very different things and she needed Cas to respond to "kill" order without hesitation.

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  57. MythAl21 March 2013 at 05:03

    I would say it was the only one in season 8, because all the guest stars interact more with Dean, except Amelia *sigh*..I guess we're going to see that on the next episode, between Dean and Krissy.

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  58. C P21 March 2013 at 05:17

    No matter how many times Dean says Cas is like family and the both of them interact with women, Destiel fans will always think the way they do.

    ReplyDelete
  59. CyanaT21 March 2013 at 05:17

    Amelia who? (Joking). I think that one Sam/Meg conversation was far better than all of the "Samelia" flashbacks.
    The less said about Krissy the better. I liked her character near the beginning of AIB but AIB quickly devolved into a "Sis Fic" and Glass's cutting Sam totally out of the ending while Krissy finished bonding and fist-bumping with Dean finished the character. Is F&G going to be AIB 2 - only with a creepy Fagin character and Vamps instead of Vetela's? I do expect Sam's condition to worsen though.

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  60. MythAl21 March 2013 at 05:27

    I guess we're gonna see one of the Dean's motivational speeches about how wrong is the choice the kids made and Krissy turning her back on the old hunter guy,because Dean is right. Probably Sis Fic part 2. Sam is gonna be tied upin a corner.

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  61. ShatteredOne21 March 2013 at 05:50

    So after surviving since Season 1, Meg gets killed off in a pretty lame way like that? Why did Sam and Dean immediately hop in their car instead of trying to help out Meg? Sam still had the demon killing knife thing. Stupid move.



    Also the whole logistics of Cas/Naomie stuff seems to keep changing each episode, unless someone can explain it to me, seems they've just been changing stuff to help their current story as opposed to keeping everything straight.


    It's sad when the people other than the 2 main stars are what are interesting in an episode. Crowley is always the perfect amount of sarcasm and calm. Meg is always a welcome sight as she causes some stuff to stir. And Cas with him fighting Naomie's control was well done.

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  62. prpleight21 March 2013 at 06:08

    The room full of dead Dean's was creepy.

    LOL...a hard copy version of bustyAsianBabes.com... bwahahahaha

    So, Sam and Dean know this woman was possessed and she said the possessed woman's "assistant" called and they weren't prepared for the possibility of demons at the door?



    I guess Cass learned to appreciate the bus back when he lost his power. Bummed to see Meg go, but it was a heroic and snarky exit worthy of the character. And she admitted her feelings for Cas. :-) Her unicorn.


    Liked the scene with Sam and Dean at the end.


    Really enjoyed the ep. I've been much happier in the back half of the season.

    ReplyDelete
  63. SupernaturallyMe21 March 2013 at 06:27

    Thank you! I suppose it makes sense. From what I hear, Cas was able to overcome the mind-control in the end. The parallels to Swan Song are amazing, though I'll have to watch it thoroughly to see if these scenes are equally as powerful.

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  64. Cherie Grant21 March 2013 at 07:15

    why focus on a character that was never going to last? there were more important things to focus on and there wasn't much time at the end. the boys didn't like or trust her so no reason for them to feel bad. i'm glad she's finally gone. an annoying character and the relationship with the boys and castiel was so wrong. good riddance to bad rubbish i say.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Trololo21 March 2013 at 07:46

    Did she tread on your gay dreams of Dean/Castiel too much?
    Meg was an awesome character, I'm sad to see her gone. At least she died fighting.

    ReplyDelete
  66. sharonally21 March 2013 at 07:54

    Swan Song was a unique moment between the brothers these type of scenes will not keep their power and meaning if the writers turn round and try to recreate it with Dean and someone else.

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  67. isleofskye21 March 2013 at 08:31

    This episode was trash.

    A sleazy repeat of Swan Song, only with Castiel beating up Dean instead of Sam/ Lucifer, and of the writers having Dean beg him humiliatingly to stop because he was family and he couldn't do without him. Just disgusting.

    X

    When it happened in Swan Song it was moving and sad, here it was simply cringeworthy.

    Sam is Dean's only family, not this angel who has betrayed the Winchesters over and over and yet is always forgiven and accepted with open arms.

    X

    I thought for a hopeful moment that we were going to get an explanation for Sam not looking for Dean, instead we get a nod to the Amelia story with emphasis on the dog and how wonderful Amelia must have been to keep Sam from the hunting life. Puleese!

    Jessica, the show might have forgotten you but I still remember and you were way way better than the cheating Amelia!!

    X

    It's as if the writers wanted to throw out a bone to all sections of the fandom from destiel fans to brother ones ending up with an episode which was a hotch-potch of of everything and nothing; including the horrrid pizza- man reminder, contributing to the general mood of sexual innuendos, but in the end like a house built on shaky foundations, the episode fell in on itself.

    X

    I didn't like Castiel before but now I just can't stand him. In fact the epiosode would have been a hundred times better without him and his bovine expressions..

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  68. Cliff21 March 2013 at 08:36

    Who ever coined the term Megstiel? Other than having an ugly ring to it, it reads like "Meg's stick" in Germany with a somewhat weird innuendo accompanying it xD

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  69. Ahnjayla21 March 2013 at 10:35

    Just wanted to make a comment..............if someone already said it ...I 'm sorry....when Castiel was in the bus ....did anyone notice the guy with the baseball hat and beard? I had to back the show up because I thought for a brief moment that Bobby was on the bus......very weird....maybe I just miss him awful.

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  70. Ross21 March 2013 at 11:09

    Was anybody else pissed that Sam and Dean just watched Meg get killed and didn't bother to do anything? I get that she's a demon, but lets face it, she's fucked them over less times than Cas has at this point.

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  71. chris68421 March 2013 at 11:39

    Honestly, I had a long list of issues Meg in this episode, only one of which is the topic of my original post. I was waivering back and forth between wanting a good conversation between the two and my disbelief that Sam would even consider confiding something so personal to Meg given their history.


    Aside from the fact that Meg killed Ellen and Jo, Meg also targeted their family, which included paralyzing Bobby and almost killing John. She possessed Sam and made him kill a hunter, assault Jo, and try to bait Dean into killing him. Sam was very sensititve to his demon issues at that time, and Meg's possession of him was a form of rape. The idea that they would bond over this shared experience makes me think that it never even occurred to Thompson to try to see things from Sam's POV.


    Other issues include the softening up of Meg in general; that it was driven home again that the only thing the writers still seem to know about Sam is that he once wanted normal; and the clumsy way Thompson skirted around Sam actually saying anything about his year, which makes me think that either there's a reveal so big that it trumps the season 4 demon blood revelation (highly unlikely), or that Thompson doesn't know why Sam didn't look for Dean either.

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  72. rehabber21 March 2013 at 12:33

    Yes, ran, hit dog, met girl, just does not cut it.

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  73. isleofskye21 March 2013 at 12:39

    I agree. She has been far more loyal than Castiel ever was, and demon or not she didn't deserve to be abandoned like that!
    I thought it was a cowardly action on the part of the brothers and completely OOC for them.
    I was expecting them to back the Impala into Crowley at full speed and and yank her into the car.

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  74. rehabber21 March 2013 at 12:49

    OH haven't you heard, the Impala is NOT a weapon, it is a character. Can not be used badly. lol I agree, I thought they would to that also.

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  75. MarissaAO21 March 2013 at 13:27

    Yes we will. :D

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  76. ScottA21 March 2013 at 13:45

    Agreed. But I was holding out for, as unlikely as it would be, the boys saving her at the end.

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  77. ScottA21 March 2013 at 13:52

    Any ideas why Castiel has to protect the angel tablet from Dean also? Would it grant him special powers since he was a vessel?


    And what up with Greyhound Cas? All he needed was a poorly folded road map stuck in his pocket.


    Would have been funny as hell watching Cas try to fold a road map back up.

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  78. KM21 March 2013 at 13:56

    Every time I see Meg, I see Ellen and Jo die all over again. Perhaps it was the same for Sam and Dean.

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  79. memo321 March 2013 at 13:56

    it was worth the waiting
    I'll miss you Meg :'(
    & the song was the perfect end for this episode 3>

    ReplyDelete
  80. isleofskye21 March 2013 at 14:00

    Possibly Dean is the lock to close the heaven gates and Sam the lock to close the Hell ones!

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  81. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 15:08

    ...where did they mention dean/castiel in their comment?

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  82. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 15:35

    why do people keep saying it's a rehash of swan song?

    dean has done this countless times in the show and swan song was hardly the first or last time dean has been the one to break a person out of possession/compulsion while being beat

    swan song was their THIRD time that had happened after john and bobby breaking free in order to not kill dean.

    this would've been the second "fight" between dean and castiel where castiel stops himself from killing dean. the set up was actually closer to the alley fight with dean goading cas on than swan song and the man who would be king with dean pleading with cas to "stop" because they are "family".

    to me, the only resemblance to swan song at all was the end bit where castiel heals dean, not when sam was beating dean. that had more to do with the visual of dean on his knees being healed by cas and less to do story wise



    so i'm hoping someone can shed some light on this perspective...usually i can see where folks are coming from but this is just throwing me for a loop

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  83. KM21 March 2013 at 15:44

    Swan Song is called to mind because it was almost a complete mirror of the scene when Sam gained control over Lucifer...from the ruthless beat-down to Dean encouraging and coaching the possessed to snap out of it...declaring his devotion to the possessed despite his impending death at their hands... from the chicken fat--swelling on his eye...to the moment of being healed by a touch from Cas. It is reasonable to reference that scene, since it was almost an exact carbon copy. The only thing missing was the ridiculous army man and the emotionally moving montage.

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  84. isleofskye21 March 2013 at 15:58

    The only difference from Swan Song is that this time Castiel, the wannabee Sam, did everything himself, from battering Dean into pulp, to coming back into himself without even the aid of visual promptings, and then healing Dean too!

    How's that for all round service. Punisher and saviour all in one!

    X

    Another difference is that Sam threw himself into the Cage to save his brother and the world, afterwards, while Castiel gets a smile and an understanding pat on the back from Dean and gets off scott-free as usual.Talk about Stockholm Syndrome!

    X

    I was embarrassed for both Dean and Jensen. It was a horrible scene to watch!

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  85. Elena Wonderland21 March 2013 at 16:13

    Seriously.WTF whith the awful votes?! O.o The episode was beyond awesome.

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  86. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 16:29

    Clearly a couple of Supernatural haters (possibly distressed Nikita fans)

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  87. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 16:34

    thank you for taking the time to reply

    i just can't see it that way since in essence the scene is a common one in regards to dean being beaten by those he is close with and that closeness being the key in breaking them free/getting them to stop.

    this isn't something that is singular to swan song to me nor singular to the brothers, but something that is singular to DEAN.

    that when faced with brutality from a compromised family member/friend he will

    1. not fight back resulting in him taking a harsh beating

    2. try to get them to stop using an emotional bond rather than physical

    the level of abuse and the reasons for stopping may differ, but the end result is that a battered dean wins them over because he appeals to an emotional bond. one that is unique to each dynamic and usually plays into emotional arcs that have long histories between the two and play up individual emotional arcs for the attacker.

    so sam stopped because he wasn't alone (plays into the isolation sam and lucifer's character had simmering under all the rage) and memories of dean always being there for him (which contrasted lucifer and michael)

    castiel stopped because he didn't want to hurt dean and was a final move to regain his free will (this is an assumption as castiel still has 3 more episodes that may prove this false) both of which tie in to castiel's long running emotional arcs of not wanting to be a hammer, his attempt at redemption for his actions, and his lack of agency at the hands of heaven's will.

    i guess this is one of those things where interpretation of scenes leaves you with completely different readings on it. cause swan song wasn't what i thought of. i was more taken by the long running theme that dean is the emotional core of the character world building...

    but again thank you for answering. i can see a bit more where people would take that reading of the scene so i appreciate you allowing me to see things from your viewpoint :)

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  88. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 16:34

    Really wish the rating episode poll was one you could vote once in. Because stuff like this happens.

    ReplyDelete
  89. isleofskye21 March 2013 at 16:36

    So does that mean that only potential Castiel lovers are allowed to voice their opinion on Spoiler tv polls. Very democratic.

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  90. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 16:40

    i can't really respond to this as this seems to be more your personal feelings on the scene. and since i won't argue against how you feel about a scene because i respect all viewpoints i'll just leave it at that...


    but i will say i don't see why you would feel embarrassed for dean/jensen for that scene when just a couple episodes ago he was in an episode about a dude banging his dog/familiar (which depending on how you view race and/or sexism in media doubles/triples the embarrassment factor)...


    out of all the things that dean/jensen has been through on this show, a fight scene with a character would be the last on the list to be embarrassed for him, in my opinion.

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  91. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 16:44

    Of course they would think of Swan Song because that's a lot of these supposed fans do they just look for ways to complain.

    Yet the stark difference here is these people complaining about it think Dean was the one to help Sam take control again. Yet it was God that made the reflection on the car that made Sam season the army figure.



    It's just so sad how these "fans" will find anything to complain about now.

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  92. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 16:45

    I am embarrassed for you. Because clearly you just need something to complain about to complain.

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  93. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 16:47

    they can vote, yet the problem here is this poll is flawed as it allows anyone to vote multiple times.


    But again like I said below i'm embarrassed for you as clearly you are one of the poepl that continually voted on Awful

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  94. rehabber21 March 2013 at 16:51

    My first thought was the alley fight also, telling Cas just do it.

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  95. rehabber21 March 2013 at 16:55

    Just watched it again and I am hoping that Meg is not dead. Even Crowley had the fire come out of him when she stabbed him, so maybe that means she is just hurt..Hey I can hope!
    Lots of great lines loved Meg's "Hi, I'm Meg, I'm a Demon", more on this when we get to best quote.

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  96. rehabber21 March 2013 at 16:57

    You can only vote once, if you vote again, it tells you thanks we have already counted your vote.

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  97. DarkUFO21 March 2013 at 17:02

    @JustinC00:disqus You can ONLY VOTE ONCE on our polls.

    The vote is a FAIR reflection of how people.

    If you don't like the results fine, but don't post lies about the poll.

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  98. KM21 March 2013 at 17:09

    Hmm! I have seen quite the opposite in reaction to SS. Many people complained for the very fact that it wasn't Dean who reached Sam in SS. This is still a bone of contention and disappointment to many fans...and I say fans...not "fans"...because it really isn't very nice to marginalize, diminish and devalue someone simply because they don't like something and speak up about it. I've listened to a lot of complaints over the years. Some people express themselves more gracefully or articulately better than others--but at no time...whether I agree or disagree with them or not...do I feel justified in vilifying them and implying that they aren't fans. Fan is just short for fanatic, anyway...criticizing or bowing down in utter worship...it's pretty much the same phenomena...and those who mindlessly sing their praises aren't really much cleaner than those who question.

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  99. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 17:10

    there were mirroring lines as well with him begging both in the alley and in the crypt. though while the "cas, please" line was more ambiguous in alley scene the overall tone of it was pretty much the same in that the viewer can take it as dean begging castiel to stop.

    and if you look at the gifs of the scene, which allows you to focus in on small details, there was a lot of mirroring in the way that fight was staged.

    right down to dean grabbing at castiel's arm and him being at a kneeling stage when castiel comes to his senses/stops. as well as dean thinking he was going in for the finishing blow when in fact castiel puts him to sleep/heals him.

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  100. JustinC0021 March 2013 at 17:14

    I voted twice. Once last night and once today.

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  101. poptart_of_doom21 March 2013 at 17:27

    huh?

    last i remember of swan song it was a group effort that lead to the end of the apocalypse. and by group effort i mean there was a long chain of events that took place that allowed dean to be in the grave yard to be able to get through to sam.

    so even if it wasn't dean that started the change, if you take the belief that god shone the light off the impala, dean was at the end of it all the REASON that light resonated with sam enough to stop him.

    because it wasn't some flash of sunlight that triggered sam's memories. it was the light off of the one constant thing in his life, his home, and the memories built in that car that allowed him to regain himself.

    and dean is a part of that home because dean is synonymous with the impala to sam.

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  102. rehabber21 March 2013 at 17:35

    Wow, you say this so much better than I ever have. Have always said Dean telling Sam I'm not going to leave you, I'm here and Sam seeing all the things that have happened in Baby is what got him to control Lucifer. Some say it was the the items in the car, but without him trying to kill Dean, he would not have been looking at the car, in fact the car would not have been there except for Dean. It took it all.

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  103. rehabber21 March 2013 at 17:39

    You can vote over and over, BUT it will only count the first vote. Read what is says if you vote again.

    ReplyDelete
  104. KM21 March 2013 at 17:41

    You voted twice and are complaining about people who seemingly voted multiple times? Umm....

    ReplyDelete
  105. DarkUFO21 March 2013 at 17:55

    @JustinC00:disqus No you can't. If you want to discuss this email me but DO NOT post any more here in the comments about these false accusations.

    ReplyDelete
  106. AgentBishop21 March 2013 at 18:18

    What's with Supernatural and the killing of all the (great) recurring characters?

    ReplyDelete
  107. João Paulo21 March 2013 at 19:14

    I'm sad about Meg's death, but the episode was awesome, the scenes between Castiel and Dean, Megan and Sam are really good.

    ReplyDelete
  108. rehabber21 March 2013 at 19:33

    This is just one of the reasons I love the polls here, unlike PCA and such. lol

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  109. Charlene Buchanan21 March 2013 at 20:48

    What an episode ... At first i kindy thought douno where this is gonna go...But it went the way that resulted in it being one of the best episode for a longgggggggggg time .I know i have said this before but this had extra juice and the episode was just so touching ,sad,funny,cute, do i have to go on? ....Why did cass take a bus though at the end ? haha thought that was kindy funny but what did he mean "protect it from you" to dean ????? and poor Sam :( hope he is ok ..... Deans coat is qite cool the wee blue one with the studs lol...Anyways back to story cowerly was cool as always and meg i haven't always been a fan off so when she died i didnt think much off it apart from the fact she was in s1 to know ...Will they shut the gates ? douno but this season just got exciting..But i was literally crying when dean said that to cass it was so touching and god! just so .....what's the word beautiful ...Song was qite cool to at the end

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  110. Charlene Buchanan21 March 2013 at 20:50

    Probaly cass haters

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  111. ScottA21 March 2013 at 22:49

    But Sam was inside trying to find any way to wrest control of his body and soul from Lucifer. Dean knew he had to get to Sam and the only way was to catch Lucifer with his guard down which he did, in essence, by not fighting back.


    Sounded better in my head than it looks in typeface.

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  112. Donna C21 March 2013 at 23:52

    Someone's opinion is a flaw? Wow. Just ... wow.

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  113. Donna C21 March 2013 at 23:53

    I think he wants to die because there's really no reason for him to be around anymore.

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  114. lsbloom21 March 2013 at 23:55

    I mainly enjoyed the episode. A few thoughts:
    -Some great lines, some really bad ones. Where is all the great writing for Crowley, the guy is working with crap.
    -I can take the sorta angst as long as they are upfront with each other.
    -I did not like the reminding of the existence of Amelia. The only part of Sam's lost year that I will accept is Riot.
    -I did not understand why Dean didn't just put the angel tablet back in the angel-warded box.
    -Can Cas ever be the same character from one appearance to another? I used to think it was fun, but if he is going to be a regular cast member I'd like him to stick with one personality and stop losing his mind/memories every other week.
    -Are we for sure Meg is dead? I've never been a fan of the actress that plays brown-haired Meg, so I won't really miss her and I've always found the stuff with her and Cas to be kinda creepy--he doesn't really own his own sexuality (or really understand it at all) so having her owning it has always felt uncomfortable to me. Why didn't the angel blade kill Crowley? The only answer I have is she didn't leave it in long enough, which is why I question if Meg is really dead. It was a pretty anticlimactic end for such a long-recurring character and the boys and Cas just kinda left her. They aren't usually that callous and the show isn't usually so blase about character deaths.

    -I am looking forward to the quotes post because Meg and Dean had some real winners.

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  115. MythAl22 March 2013 at 01:15

    Sadly it is the truth. Even more now that Carver said that Metatron is gonna be related to Dean. Poor guy can't have caracters interacting with him.

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  116. Kerinda Hartson22 March 2013 at 02:13

    you be saying I want amelia back at the end of the season when sam is dieing OK! I am sick of this dean takes away sam nomal life and he is f'ed up what the hell is wrong here?

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  117. Kerinda Hartson22 March 2013 at 02:27

    so why is jared still on this show then I like to know? leave now start do movie stop your talent is getting wasted leave the bad writing to this show you are too good for this thats what I say.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Kerinda Hartson22 March 2013 at 02:30

    we all miss him.

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  119. CyanaT22 March 2013 at 03:26

    I completely agree! With due respect to SupernatuallyMe I think the obvious parallel to SS severely cheapens that incredibly moving scene between Lucifer!Sam and Dean.
    What's next (sarcasm intentional) "WayOfftheWagon!Benny" will beat the crap out of Dean, and pulped-faced Dean will whisper through bleeding lips "Benny, you've been like a better brother to me" and then Benny will have an epiphany too, as Swan Song 3. (again, sarcasm intentional)

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  120. CyanaT22 March 2013 at 03:39

    I don't have a major issue with Dean's instincts being "right" for the most part. I do have an issue with Sam being made to look foolish for trusting his instincts - the "Dean Fans" have similar valid complaints about episodes where Dean seems to be "dumbed down" in comparison to Sam. If the episode is "brothers centric" as F&G appears to be I have

    ReplyDelete
  121. CyanaT22 March 2013 at 04:04

    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.

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  122. Black In Black Trickster '9522 March 2013 at 13:32

    Awesome.
    I will hold hope for Meg to come back (unlikely), she proved herself somewhat nice at the end. I really liked her especially her interaction between Sam and that funny scene with Cas.
    Castiel was amazing and I'm glad he's back to normal, interesting where this tablet will end up. Maybe this all connects through trails?.
    I'm glad Dean knows about Sam. But its a little worrying about Sam and the trials but I know he'll pull through some way :)
    Crowley and Naomi must of known each other a long time ago by the way they spoke, and possibly a closer relationship?.

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  123. MythAl22 March 2013 at 14:17

    LOL. That could really happen.

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  124. CyanaT22 March 2013 at 19:44

    Carver said that Metatron would be more involved with Dean (than Sam)? I didn't know that. This is another reason why I'm mad (and very sad) that the show killed Meg. Would you believe several sites claim that Meg was another character Sam "stole" from Dean?
    I am not at all opposed to the show having any guest characters on the show, or "major" recurring guest characters (Meg, Crowley,Garth, Charlie,Naomi, Benny to name a few) - the more the merrier now that both Js have families - but I do object that most important guest or recurring characters who share more sigificant interaction as well as screentime with Dean tend to have longer "shelf life" (for recurring characters) than with Sam's character. The only recurring character exception I can think of is Gordon Walker (Jess doesn't count as she died in the Pilot and in the few times she appeared she was never real). I'm not counting Amelia as there's only a scant possibility that she will return.
    If the show introduces new characters in S8 on - especially if they're planned to recur - it should be more balanced with either by giving one Winchester near equal interaction with recurring characters (like Dean/Benny and Amelia/Sam thru 8.10 was pretty equal IMO; the difference being "many fans" liked Benny and "many fans" - not necessarily the same fans -disliked Amelia - as I said before I would be very surprised to see Amelia any time soon, if ever); or have major guest characters interact near equally with both brothers (EHH, T&E and RTT were great examples of how to successfully do this); or have recurring characters that the show deliberately "associates" with one brother and balance that with characters more "associates" with other brother (The S4 storyline balance with Ruby-Sam and Cas-Dean was a good example. )
    But going forward into the back end of S8 the imbalance is again more than apparent. We know Benny is coming back and Naomi "has it in" for Dean and is "visiting him" soon - and now you're saying the Metatron will be more involved with Dean? Both Benny and now Naomi are associated with Dean. Dean is far more important to the S8+ storyline that some extreme fans keep harping about.(For the record, I love Dean, too).
    I speculate that Kevin will die - possibly in 8.19 - so what recurring characters are left for Sam to interact (at all) with - Charlie, although in Larp she interacted more with Dean; Garth in SC interacted more with Dean and I'm not positive he's on deck with an actual appearance the rest of the season; and Crowley?

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  125. Violeta_Lange22 March 2013 at 23:31

    The Crypt scene between Dean and Cas was EPIC

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  126. Ashley B23 March 2013 at 00:30

    Well, he's back to being a regular next year, so you won't have to worry about that anymore ;)

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  127. Ashley B23 March 2013 at 00:37

    If you remember so well, then you know that "Caged Heat" involved Castiel torching the wrong bones. It was all a ruse. A red herring. Fergus McLeod was bullshit. So they can make Crowley's real backstory anything they wish.

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  128. rehabber23 March 2013 at 01:08

    If you remember, then you know that Bobby found Crowley's bones and had Sam & Dean go dig them up. So they did know where he came from and when.

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  129. KM23 March 2013 at 02:08

    Think back further. Bobby summoned the ghost of Gavin McLeod, son of Fergus McLeod, who told him where Fergus' bones were buried. That wasn't a ruse or red herring. In order to protect his bones, he voided the contract with Bobby. As far as canon has told us, Fergus McLeod WAS real, his bones WERE real. When Castiel flamed them in "Caged Heat", Crowley had obviously given Cas someone else's bones to torch. They cooked up a little mojo to make him do the "I'm melting...meeeelting...!!" shtick as they were burned. The torching was a ruse...the bones they boys dug up in Scotland were not...as far as canon has told us. How's THAT for memory?

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  130. CyanaT23 March 2013 at 03:27

    Carver said that Metatron would be more involved with Dean (than Sam)? I didn't know that. That's disheartening. This is another reason why I'm mad (and very sad) that the show killed Meg. Would you believe several sites claim that Meg was "another
    character" Sam "stole" from Dean?

    I am not at all opposed to the show having any guest characters on the show, or
    "major" recurring guest characters (Meg, Crowley,Garth,Charlie,Naomi, Benny to name a few) - the more the merrier now that both Js have families - but I do object that most important guest or recurring characters who share more sigificant interaction as well as screentime with Dean tend to have longer "shelf life" (for recurring characters) thanwith Sam's character. The only recurring character exception I can think of isGordon Walker (Jess doesn't count as she died in the Pilot and in the few times she appeared she was never real). I'm not counting Amelia as there's only a
    scant possibility that she will return.

    If the show introduces new characters in S8 on - especially if they're planned to
    recur - it should be more balanced with either by giving one Winchester near
    equal interaction with recurring characters (like Dean/Benny and Amelia/Sam
    thru 8.10 was pretty equal IMO; the difference being "many fans" liked Benny and "many fans" - not necessarily the same fans -disliked Amelia - as I said before I would be very surprised to see Amelia any time soon, if ever); or have major guest characters interact near equally with both brothers (EHH, T&E and RTT were great examples of how to successfully do this); or have recurring characters that the show deliberately "associates" with one brother and balance that with characters more
    "associates" with other brother (The S4 storyline balance with Ruby-Sam and Cas-Dean was a good example. )

    But going forward into the back end of S8 the imbalance is again more than
    apparent. We know Benny is coming back and Naomi "has it in" for Dean
    and is "visiting him" soon - and now you're saying the Metatron will be more involved with Dean? Both Benny and now Naomi are associated with Dean. Dean is far more important to the S8+ storyline that some extreme fans keep harping about.(For the record, I love Dean, too).

    I speculate that Kevin will die - possibly in 8.19 - so what recurring characters are left for Sam to interact (at all) with - Charlie, although in Larp sheinteracted more with Dean; Garth in SC also interacted more with Dean and I'm not positive he's on deck with an actual appearance, maybe only brief mentions the rest of the season; and Crowley? Kevin, Charlie, (Garth) and Crowley have equal associations with both brothers.

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  131. CyanaT23 March 2013 at 03:30

    Sharonally, (I think) where did your post go?

    ReplyDelete
  132. CyanaT23 March 2013 at 04:29

    Is anyone else having problem today with their posts loading on the forum and then vanishing? I've lost 4 replies to my original posts. I saved one in MS Word and reposted it and now its gone again.

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  133. A Bad Person23 March 2013 at 04:30

    I'm not sure I buy your rather convoluted 'plotlines' thing, because you're working off the assumption that Crowley was playing some sort of long game where his lack of identity/acknowledged identity was necessary to enable the over-arcing plot of seasons 5 to 6 to come to fruition. When it really wasn't, not if it was just to ensure his safety.

    I mean, Crowley's human identity was part of Bobby's story to get his soul back. It didn't really play out for any part of the narrative, expect when Cas 'torched' the bones. At the time, the audience eventually accept it as 'proof' that Cas and Crowley are collaborating together and hiding each other's secrets to enable their partnership to keep going. But if Crowley really isn't a demon, or at least the particular demon we thought we knew, then it is possible to review that scene with a different purpose.


    Crowley knew that even torching the real Fergus' bones wouldn't do jack to him. (and it's worth bearing in mind that we don't know whether Cas dug up a skeleton that wasn't Fergus' or whether he did find and burn the real thing, sparing a few molecules of whatever so that Crowley wouldn't burn up completely, or so he thought) However, it's canon that Crowley has been one of the few things in the show who becomes determined not to underestimate the Winchesters. So just sitting back and letting Bobby draw his own conclusions and then playing along, gave him a kind of safety net. He can weigh up the price: what's worth more, Bobby's soul or having Dean and Sam constantly digging around for his backstory, trying to discover who or what he really is so that they can find a way to permanently remove him from the picture?

    And from what we've seen of ghosts, we know that they can't see inside the vessel the way angels and perhaps demons can. So if you tell Fergus' son that his father is standing before him as a demon possessing someone else, chances are that he just might believe you. Hell, I wouldn't put it past Crowley to have done his research, let the rumor slip that he was once Fergus and let the whispers circulate Hell so that he would have a good cover story. We've already seen him do something similar back in season 5.

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  134. A Bad Person23 March 2013 at 04:45

    I think they were referring to the form of reasoning that creates the opinion, rather than the opinion itself? If you decide an episode going to be terrible just because a character you don't like is appearing in it, then chances are that you're not going to be able to give a good critical overview of your feelings when it comes to voting. Of course, the same thing could be said of the fans who love a recurring character so much that they vote awesome, just because she/he appears within it.

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  135. Kattoo23 March 2013 at 05:14

    Crowley needed Cas to complete the "set-up". The boys bought the "sham" because they believed in Cas. Had anyone but Cas torched the bones, they would have remained suspicious. Since Crowley had to rely on Cas' involvement, he would have had to have thought of all of that prior to concocting such an elaborate scheme. He would have had to find a reason for Cas to team up with him in the first place. He would have needed Heaven to be in chaos. Stopping the apocalypse and Michael falling into the hole created that Chaos. There is not a jot or tittle to suggest that Gavin/Fergus McLeod was a red-herring, and everything to indicate that it was, in fact, on the level. It is pure conjecture and speculation...guess-work to suggest the writers might have somehow planned a 3-season twist just so that Crowley could tell Naomi "Hey babe...remember Mesopotamia?" Sorry. I don't buy it. I'm going with Occam's Razor on this writing blunder.

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  136. poptart_of_doom23 March 2013 at 06:13

    personally i don't think there was some far reaching plan

    what i do think is that because castiel and crowley were in cahoots during the reveal of it all and castiel helped him fake his death the writers are going to use plausible deniability to get out of previous canon. since your average viewer isn't scoping out superwiki and are less likely to be strict on retcons if they move the story forward in an enjoyable way

    because if push came to shove they could argue that since cas was working with crowley he let him in on what bobby was doing, since they already established that cas had been spying on them invisibly. allowing cas to make it all up with the ghost and such much like made them believe he had burned crowley's bones.

    or that fergus was actually a man crowley had possessed at the time. and gavin is a result of him impregnating someone (or was already baking in the oven at the time of possession). making gavin, narratively, still fergus/crowley's son yet still not negating the idea that crowley is older than a 16th century birthdate.

    does that story hold water with fans that are actively involved in the fandom/show and rewatch and pick it apart... nope. but we take up such a small amount of viewers that i don't see why they wouldn't hand wave it away if they had better plans for crowley.

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  137. Kattoo23 March 2013 at 06:40

    My contention is that people keep saying things like "the writers could get out of it, this way...or that way..." What I'm saying is that the very fact that the writers have something to get out of, proves my point. You may be right. They MAY explain it away somehow, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a retcon. It doesn't mean that they planned it the entire time. They would be covering up what is clearly an oversight. There is nothing...not one shred of evidence to suggest that this was a planned event or that Fergus was possessed. Being able to concoct a cover-story to explain the problem away is not the same as it having been part of canon prior to this episode. And while I do somewhat concede that the average viewer may not catch the blunder to begin with...it was not I who caught it at my house...it was my husband who is absolutely a casual viewer. He's the one who noticed the gaffe. he barely knows fandom exists...and really wouldn't if it weren't for me. Did every single casual viewer take note? No, of course not, but I also don't think that the average viewer is necessarily clueless about canon either. People will notice...not just the more avid fans. And that is bad writing in my book.



    Is it the END of the world that they made a mistake? No...but it is frustrating to see it happen again and again and again. It's been happening quite a bit the last few seasons. It grates on me and whittles away at my suspension of disbelief. And it's lazy. Most fanfic writers...who earn nothing beyond most peoples' snickering contempt put more care in keeping their stories canon complaint. It's insulting that the those who get paid handsomely cannot reference the Supernatural Wiki. It's not that hard.

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  138. Akiko0023 March 2013 at 10:48

    I wasn't too happy with the Megstiel moments, but knowing it was their good-bye scene I can live with it. Besides, it's not as if it was coming out of nowhere, even if I was surprised to learn about how much Meg seemingly cared about Cas. The crypt scene at the end and the training scene at the beginning were the best parts of the episode for me. Jensen and Misha really nailed it, especially Jensen. I just wished the ending wouldn't have felt so rushed. We only got the real Castiel for a moment before he was already on his way again. Dean and Cas really could have needed a moment for themselves after their showdown. So, the pacing could have been better, not only in regards to this episode, but the whole season. I hope so much the next time we see Cas again he and Dean will be on the same side for good. I love their dynamic so much and miss it. Cas was barely there this season and even when he was on screen, he wasn't himself for much of the time. The Sam and Meg talk was interesting and a nice callback to their history, if you so will. As for Meg's death, I think I'm okay with it, though I hate SPN's tendency to bring back characters only to kill them off in the same episode. I think they could have done more with her if they had only wanted to (though not in a love interest way. I can't see that working at all with that particular character). At least she didn't die outright evil, but not really good either and chose her death.

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  139. Ashley B23 March 2013 at 11:51

    They researched and found Crowley to be Fergus McLeod. Dug up Fergus's bones, which Cas then torched. Later, it was "revealed" that the bones Cas torched were not Fergus's. But what if thy really were, and the whole backstory was the part that was shit? Crowley is not above massive manipulation. And between his own vast resources and a time-travelling angel, lots of things are possible to fuck with.

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  140. rehabber23 March 2013 at 11:58

    I am hard core fan, and I did gasp when it was said, but the one that bothers me much more is Sam NOT looking for Dean..that is just to big to brush away and since it was mentioned in this ep, am hoping it will be explained.


    This show is usually excellent in keeping the characters and story true, but agree that when they get it wrong..it is REALLY wrong. lol

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  141. Ashley B23 March 2013 at 12:07

    Ahh, but here's the thing: There's a difference between an oversight, explained away by headcanon, and *intentional* retconning where the alternate explanation is thought up in advance with express purpose. The Trickster wasn't intended to be an archangel, but come "Changing Channels", he was made to be Gabriel *on purpose*. Likewise, the Men of Letters business. The writers didn't just casually forget that John had been raised a civilian. They came up with a cool new plotline/piece of backstory and figured out a way to introduce it without completely contradicting canon. It *was* a retcon, but it was *not* an oversight. And definitely no accident.


    Given that Robbie Thompson, who wrote this episode, not only uses Superwiki regularly but also rewatches key episodes prior to writing his own, it is very much doubtful that he simply missed that detail about Crowley's backstory. The much more likely scenario is that the writing staff are planning a larger reveal down the line re: Crowley's identity, and the scene with Naomi was a bigass clue.

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  142. Kattoo23 March 2013 at 15:28

    So is it a sham/red-herring...or a deliberate retcon? You're confusing me with your capricious assertions. When there is evidence to suggest that Crowley's snarky comment, designed to poke Naomi and rattle her, was planted to make Crowley's history compliant with a new mytharc...get back with me--and I'll concede the retcon only. And I'll still find it annoying. Until that evidence is provided, there is nothing to indicate that it was anything other than an oversight.

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  143. Kattoo23 March 2013 at 15:46

    I will grant you that the Mesopotamia line was less egregious than Sam not looking for Dean. However, Sam not looking for Dean has been discussed extensively by better minds than mind. Heh.

    My fractious response to the Mesopotamia line came as a result of the incessant disregard for canon and their hitherto established supernatural-rules-of-engagement that have been going on for a while now. Part of the "magic" of the show is building up a universe for the characters to reside in--a basis...a framework. When the show constantly ignores its own universe...it destroys the magic that they went to such great effort to achieve. While it is reasonable to expect a slip now and then...after so many slips, it is also reasonable to assume that it is not just a slip, but laziness and lack of giving a crap. And THAT irks me even more.

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  144. rehabber23 March 2013 at 17:56

    So true, I want their universe to stay true to the story, but I will say they have less errors than any other show I watch. In fact off the top of my head I can't think of any other than this season and I am hoping the Sam not looking is going to be cleared up before the end of s8. That it was even mentioned this ep has given me hope.

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  145. A Bad Person23 March 2013 at 20:18

    Oh no, I'm not implying that the writers thought that far ahead. I'm just saying that they played out the Fergus storyline in such a way that they could come back to it and twist the meaning. Considering the fact that season six and seven had a different showrunner and therefore a different overall theme, I'm fairly convinced at the time they shrugged and considered the Fergus thing to be a suitable backstory for Crowley and nothing more. (Though I can imagine a few of writers at the time twidling their thumbs, looking round and saying 'maybbeeee...' while plotting out a very different story in their minds - I imagine this is quite common for a lot of Supernatural's plotlines, especially when we like to point fingers and call out 'recon!' It wouldn't surprise me if some of the writers wanted more and decided to let the Fergus thing lie until they had a suitable excuse to shake things up.)


    But no, I don't think this new revelation involving Crowley was thought up that far ahead of time. But like I said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this wasn't something some of the writers had personally been wanting to get their teeth into. And of course, we don't yet how they're going to unveil Crowley's past. Maybe they'll do in such a sloppy fashion that you'll have everyone in the fandom crying out for blood. They, at the very least, have to include a throwaway line back to the Fergus mess. Hopefully, that is. If they don't then, er, well, more fool them, I guess.

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  146. Kerinda Hartson24 March 2013 at 01:31

    OH MY GOd think about butthead all of you think about amelia was sam"s normal life and the dean took that way HELLOOOO! and then in the ep were dean said I want you to have a nomal life WHAT? he had that you ass-hoe and then you came back and now sam is going to die doing this thing and now one understand that COME ON!

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  147. rehabber24 March 2013 at 02:17

    Sam also told Dean to go find Lisa and have a normal life, but Dean still tried to find a way to get Sam out of Hell. Sam did not even try and find Dean.

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  148. Ashley B24 March 2013 at 21:41

    I am saying I think it is a deliberate retcon on the part of the writers, but that said retcon will include/imply that Fergus story was a red-herring, not just the bones.

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  149. Lubbeelou24 March 2013 at 22:51

    I'm kind of mad that they killed Meg! Who else are they going to kill now? Better not be Castiel again!

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  150. Spn Fickle26 March 2013 at 05:43

    I don't even feel like I watched a real episode of Supernatural it started off pretty good with the creepy dead Deans and the great little brother scene. Then, Meg was pretty good... I loved Crowley's "If you want something done right.... blah, blah blah" Bwaaaahahaha.


    But, most of the rest of the episode was one WTF or "who cares" moment after another.


    The Swan Song wanna-be scene was just a big WTF? Couldn't they have changed it a little bit? Was Castiel really as intimidating as Lucifer? I get that tons of fans on this site are thrilled that Castiel is needed by Dean, but Dean begging on his knees? That scene totally took me out of the episode. Especially when it was playing at the same time as the reminder that Sam didn't look for Dean or Kevin or Meg because he hit a dog and settled down...

    Then, when that is combined with Meg being totally abandoned by Castiel and getting killed in such a simple way, I would just like to forget the episode ever happened. Note: I don't blame the brothers for not confronting Crowley to save her, but Castiel should have been able to swoosh in and save her. Nope... that episode just didn't happen... just like the first half of this season.

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  151. Spn Fickle27 March 2013 at 01:54

    Bwahahaha! You are kidding right?!? Only people who love Castiel can be fair minded? That is a laugh :-) That is what I like about this fandom... everybody has a great sense of humor :-)

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  152. dave27 March 2013 at 04:11

    Castiel wasn't the only one to betray Dean. Don't forget about season 4 where Sam went behind Dean's back to learn the demon powers and ended up starting the apocalypse.

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  153. dave27 March 2013 at 04:13

    As long as they come back from the dead I'm fine with it.

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