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Supernatural - Episode 8.10 - Torn and Frayed - Sneak Peek

9 Jan 2013

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243 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl9 January 2013 at 22:34

    Aw, poor Kevin. He's not handling this so well.

    And LOL at Cas just coming right out and saying he looks terrible.

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  2. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 22:46

    Not sure about the episode. I was hoping to see all of Team Free Will as a good sign of less soap opera and more action, but just Cas and Dean dealing with the situation and Sam is no where to be seen. So, I hope that doesn't mean anything because I really don't want another episode with Sam just sitting around doing nothing. We have had that too much this season and I have lost a lot of hope and patience. I want the brothers back TOGETHER and less melodrama, pointless conflict, and sappy soap opera. I really want the second half of the season to pull itself together. More action and getting along!! Why is that so difficult?

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  3. Miss Supernatural9 January 2013 at 23:06

    Guys, please... It's "Torn and Frayed", not Tom...


    I miss Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  4. V_s9 January 2013 at 23:24

    Can Cas not heal fatigue? I feel like if you can bring someone back to life, fixing fatigue should be within your wheelhouse.

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  5. Elena Wonderland9 January 2013 at 23:26

    WHERE is SAM.

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  6. percysowner9 January 2013 at 23:26

    It is becoming obvious that Sam is no longer important to Supernatural. This makes me sad and angry, but the decision seems to be set. Sam is irrelevant.

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  7. tvmonkey9 January 2013 at 23:26

    Good news Sam girls we see some skin in this episode, thats right shirtless Sam according to the Aussie promo for this ep. Also some hints that Sam and Amelia may not be over after all.

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  8. aleksander eide9 January 2013 at 23:29

    i just wonder what do you mean by Team Free Will?

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  9. Miss Supernatural9 January 2013 at 23:31

    Oh shit, seriously? *Bangs head against the wall*

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  10. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 23:32

    Me too. I'm finding this season to be very depressing when it comes to Sam. I don't understand why they had to have Sam quit hunting for a year and why they had to have Kevin and Sam a part. They could have translated the tablet and had the information they need during this year instead of trying to translate half a tablet now.


    It kind of just proves how much the writers didn't think through Sam's story this season. They really didn't care about anything, but their pointless drama and soap opera. They rather have the characters look dumb and selfish for this split than smart and heroic. Why didn't Kevin translate the tablet once he got like he did the other tablet? Why have Sam just run away? I don't understand why or who thought this would be a good idea and I don't think we're ever going to get any answers. It just makes this season so much more difficult. I'm so tired of the characters been bend over backwards to make the plot work instead of letting the characters stand on their own. It makes missing the characters so much more painful.

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  11. Jessie9 January 2013 at 23:33

    Did Sam get written out of the show? Sure seems like it.

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  12. Jessie9 January 2013 at 23:34

    Cas is written just as inconsistently as Sam

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  13. Jessie9 January 2013 at 23:35

    Unfortunately, I'm not interested in Sam and Amelia. I want Sam back in the supernatural story

    ReplyDelete
  14. Miss Supernatural9 January 2013 at 23:35

    I agree. And, must of all, I still hurt over what it did to the brothers relationship. I really wanted a twist, but it simply won't happen.

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  15. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 23:43

    Sam, Dean, and Castiel. Back in the fifth season, Dean refer to them as Team Free Will.

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  16. tvmonkey9 January 2013 at 23:44

    they do I believe Cas calls Dean for help then Dean goes to Sam for help, they agree to put their differences aside to help Cas/for the bigger picture but its harder then they think it will be hence Cas telling them off.

    I think Sam chooses to be with Amelia but only after he is still going to complete the hell gate closing mission first, they will eventually have that conservation about monsters and Sam being a hunter just not sure if it will be right away.



    This will all lead to Sam and Dean coming to an understanding about wanting different things out of life, Dean wants to hunt and Sam wants to eventually hang up his boots. Sam has a goal he'll be working towards.

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  17. tvmonkey9 January 2013 at 23:44

    he will be

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  18. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 23:46

    I know! I'm so upset over what they did to the brothers. I hate that they think this is good material. I want there to be more, but I'm not holding my breath, because they have pretty much done nothing, but throw Sam under the bus this whole season. I don't think they care anymore about Sam.

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  19. Miss Supernatural9 January 2013 at 23:49

    I don't call this "come together", but I think it's all that I'll get.


    I don't know if Amelia is willing to wait this long, but heh. That youtube user who made that "Soapernatural" promo hit the mark.


    I'm sorry, Tvmonkey. I didn't mean to dump this on you. I just wanted something different for Sam, Dean and SamandDean. I have to accept that things changed and will never, ever be the same again. Just like my love for the show.


    Again, thank you for the info.

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  20. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 23:50

    Where did you see the Aussie promo? We had spoilers that they are going to do a godawful "love triangle" for Sam, Amelia, and Don. Which makes no sense because she isn't a likable woman. I would like to see Sam back into the supernatural action and working with the team again. Amelia isn't a good character and she is completely boring.

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  21. KatAdams039 January 2013 at 23:52

    I have no idea what they doing to the show anymore. I'm losing a lot of hope for Sam. Not that I had a whole lot to begin with. I don't think Jeremy Carver wants to do a show about two brothers. I was hoping the second half would shed some light on Sam's story, but they can't do that unless Sam is in the show and has something to show.

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  22. Miss Supernatural9 January 2013 at 23:53

    Ditto. They took what was the point focal, the reference and the best part of the show and ripped it apart and totally changed. The heart of the show is gone.

    I'll just add that they're destroying both, Sam and Dean. I agree that the damage done to Sammy was way bigger, though.

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  23. percysowner9 January 2013 at 23:58

    Could be, but all they are showing me is that Sam is no longer considered a part of the story. Not even important to include in a sneak peek. It's becoming increasingly hard to invest in this show.

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  24. percysowner9 January 2013 at 23:59

    But that would mean Sam was important. Heck he doesn't even get a mention in the sneak peek. Garth is more important in the scheme of things.

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  25. Bruce_F10 January 2013 at 00:06

    All the main characters have been written out of the show and have been replaced by duplicates who only act in character once every three or four episodes.

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  26. percysowner10 January 2013 at 00:08

    Don't care. They are removing Sam as an important part of Supernatural. Making him less than Dean. Dean's the hero, Sam's the shmuck who isn't important in the hunt or to his brother. Let him leave now and they can go with the Dean and his superfriends show.

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  27. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 00:15

    You can be mad at the writers, defend Sam and ask for him to have equal share. I'm doing this too. But to attack Dean (OR Sam) doesn't make any argument better, IMO. All it does is bring more fan wars because everyone will feel compelled to defend their favorite.


    I'm sorry, I'm just so tired of brothers fans wars. And I'm blaming Jeremy and the writers for this, too. Way to bring unnecessary conflict/drama on the show and the fandom. A split fandom is a weaker fandom IMO.

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  28. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:31

    So check prophet off the possible future career list. They never seem to be happy.

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  29. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:36

    I was hoping for an explanation for why Sam didn't look for Dean or even a complete retcon where he did look. I question now whether we are going to get it. Besides the end of season 4 through season 5, this is the longest brother rift we've gotten and it doesn't seem to have any point. They could have had the characters in the same place and still have had Sam look for Dean and simply be unable to find something. Then we could have gotten somewhere on the actual plot of the mytharc instead of this sappy, emoangsty, nighttime soap opera. If I wanted to wanted families scheme and tear each other apart, I would watch Dallas. The foundation of this show is two brothers fighting evil together and I so wish that the second half of season 8 would redeem itself and get back on track.

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  30. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:39

    They haven't been doing Dean any favors this season either. In fact the only ones who have been getting any forward moving story lines this year are the secondary characters and they have had a lot to do this season. Heck Bitten wasn't even secondary characters and they got a meatier story than the brothers have this year.

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  31. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:43

    I honestly don't care about shirtless anyone on this show but I hope they make Amelia more interesting and sympathetic with this one. I don't dislike her but I don't like her either. She's just background subplot B at this point. She needs to have purpose.

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  32. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 00:45

    OMG, perfect description, lol.

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  33. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:48

    You peaked my interest so I had to look for that video. Thanks. It's so very, very sad and yet so funny at the same time. Remember way back when Supernatural was called a little horror show every week and there was more action than angsting. Man do I miss that show.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWJIawjGRl4

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  34. Dahne10 January 2013 at 00:51

    Perfect! You are so very right. My most hopeful theory is that this perception thing Jeremy was talking about actually means that the Dean and Sam on screen are doppelgangers and the real Dean and Sam are trying desperately to escape and take them out. I know you hate shifter stories but man it would be nice to have a reason behind this supernatural soap opera the show has become.

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  35. KatAdams0310 January 2013 at 00:53

    I miss that show too. But thank you for the laugh, I needed it right now.

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  36. Bruce_F10 January 2013 at 00:56

    Normally I am against doppelgangers and time travel but at this point I'm willing to put up with anything that results in a big fat reset button being pushed on this mess of a season.

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  37. Dahne10 January 2013 at 01:00

    Wow! That says it all about the suckage of this season. If you are willing to have shapershifters, you know it has been a travesty of storytelling. I am usually anti-retcon but we need one badly at this point.

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  38. KatAdams0310 January 2013 at 01:01

    I don't understand the point. When "Southern Comforts" aired, I thought that maybe it was because they wanted to address old issues and try to rebuild the relationship, but now, I don't think it's the reason. I think they just want angst for the sake of angst and don't care what it destroys. I think the writers have forgot the difference between what it interesting to write and what is interesting to an audience. Amelia is the perfect example. It's fun to write the snarky bitch, but it's a pain and unpleasant to watch. They're having fun tearing the brothers apart, but the parts of the audience is really turned off. I have never been this unimpressed with a show that I have stuck around with as long as Supernatural. But I watch for the foundation of the show and not for the latest melodrama. I'm hoping for the show to get back on track too, but I have a feeling that because show is being just a successive on Wednesday nights and getting press, it won't. It was only because the actors were unhappy with Sera Gamble anything happen with her and so far everyone behind the scenes have only said positive things about Jeremy Carver. So, who knows?

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  39. lsbloom10 January 2013 at 01:02

    Jeremy Carver and Emily Andras are vying for the Most Hated New Showrunner of the 2012-2013 Season for me. If the bet was to see if it were possible to get crazed, desperate, all-out-of-options fans to start a "bring back Sera" campaign, I'm thinking one or two more episodes and someone's gonna win that longshot.

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  40. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 01:10

    LOL, I so agree.


    You know... Sometimes I wish I didn't remember, but alas, it was so awesome that I can't forget.

    ReplyDelete
  41. C P10 January 2013 at 01:12

    Yeah. Poor Kevin's really stressed out.

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  42. lsbloom10 January 2013 at 01:12

    I'm (obviously) not Percysowner, but I think his/her description is more about the state of the show's balance not the characters. The writers are splitting the fandom. Acknowledging that they are setting it up that way isn't attacking anyone but TPTB.

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  43. KatAdams0310 January 2013 at 01:13

    I guess since I'm pretty angry and disgusted with Dean right now that means Dean has been given any favors either. Castiel, Benny, and Kevin so far have the best stories this season. I don't know what to make of Dean this season. I really hate that everyone had to be on hold while Dean was in Purgatory and I hate it when other characters have to be written as jerks or stupid just to make someone else's story work. I feel like that's what happened to Dean this season. Kevin didn't translate the tablet when he had a chance, because Dean wasn't there. Sam had to run away for Dean's Purgatory. It's why Bela didn't work for me. I want to believe that there is more to the story, but the season is almost halfway over and they needed to start showing some SERIOUS signs of something more for the people left on earth to make me believe they thought about anything other than Purgatory. I'm angry with Dean, but I wish I had more to hold onto for Dean to make me feel like it was worth it. But Dean and Benny feel forced and from what I understand Purgatory is over. I don't know. At least he is part of the Supernatural storyline, but he isn't part of the mythology. He's gotten the better half of the horrible brothers stuff. But I feel like it's come of the expense of him being a big brother, loyal, good guy. I want more for the brothers, but I don't want it at the expense of their characters. And this season has been just a huge sacrifice of Sam and Dean to Soapernatural gods.

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  44. percysowner10 January 2013 at 01:14

    I don't care who is or is not shirtless either. Frankly my interest in both brothers is because of their characters. They are good looking sexy men, but if they never took off their shirts again, I would be fine. If Sam is going to be with Amelia, then they need to make her relevant to Sam. Let her really be someone he can talk to about his hopes and dreams, worries and fears. So far their relationship has shed almost no light on what happened to Sam and how he feels about it. I'm so sick of Sam not having a POV.

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  45. Dahne10 January 2013 at 01:32

    "And this season has been just a huge sacrifice of Sam and Dean to Soapernatural gods." Bwah! So true. I am going to start calling this show Soapernatural until it comes back to its senses.


    I am as annoyed by this season's writing as you are but we disagree here. I think Benny has been the one shining ray of light in this mess. Even Crowley has been less than snarky fabulous this season. In fact, Benny is the only character that seems to remember that family is the bedrock of everything. Sad when a vampire secondary character is the one to fill the hole this season has left in me. I feel in love with Supernatural because of the brother bond and its bedrock premise that family will get you through even in hard times, that family is number one. That premise was so unique on TV and adding in the genre-specific issues they dealt with, it was a mesmerizing. Unfortunately that premise started falling apart in season 4 and it hasn't recovered. At least it looked like it could in late season 6 and season 7 (minus the drek that was Amy), but now we're back to this nonsense again. I do not understand why conflict for conflict's sake is such a winner in that writers' room. Can't we get the conflict and drama through the plot instead of always manufacturing it through some contrivance in the characters? Enough is enough.

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  46. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 01:32

    In this case, I apologize and agree about make things clear to TPTB. I, however, felt like they were attacking Dean. I think we should put blame where blame is due. I didn't attack Sam for what TPTB did to him this season.

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  47. Dahne10 January 2013 at 01:41

    Where did you get your information regarding Sera Gamble and the actors? I have never heard this substantiated before, just fan rumors. As far as what we heard from the cast and crew during Sera's time, they were always positive about her when responding to fans and the media. In fact, I have only heard the actors say one thing that was even remotely negative about anyone in 8 years. They are remarkably professional and always stress the positive about everyone who works on the show.


    As for ratings, time will tell. If we go into a spring slump that will be pretty telling given that last year stayed very steady. Also when looking at Live +7 numbers from this year and last year, they are about the same I believe. (Tvmonkey, is that still true?) So basically the same number of people are watching Supernatural, just more of them are watching live than they did last year.

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  48. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 01:43

    percyowner did not insult Dean. It was a sarcastic comment about the focus of the show... Our story hasn't been about two brothers for a long time. But, this year, the brothers are hardly recognizable.

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  49. lsbloom10 January 2013 at 01:45

    IMO for a lot of people the fact of the matter is Dean has been presented as morally righteous and self-sacrificing--to the point of being insufferable if you aren't over the moon about him from the get-go--he's gotten a lot of screen time (comparatively) and everyone is revolving around him. And they've spent entire episodes listing all of Sam's supposed crimes, shunting him off to be with a nasty girl who isn't nice to him, and making him stare into the middle-distance like he's having a stroke so you can then watch as he changes light bulbs. So it is really hard to say Dean by being made into this demi-god of all that is right and awesome and the nexus of the entire show is really getting the short end of the stick here. I do agree if you weren't a Dean-centric viewer, he is going to get a lot of hate, but that's backlash hate partly amped up by the ammunition they are giving the Dean side of the brother wars. The argument that Dean's character has suffered so much by making him the sole hero is kinda hard to make Sam-centric viewers swallow. For me.

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  50. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 01:55

    Especially after the awful last episode I don't think Dean is being made the "awesome demi-God" at all, so agree to disagree on this one.



    Again, I'm sorry for posting about it at all. I should have stayed out of this.

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  51. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 01:56

    I'm sorry, I was being over sensitive. I just don't like brother wars and it seems like I provoked a kind of one. My apologies to everyone.

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  52. KatAdams0310 January 2013 at 01:57

    I know I would probably like Benny a lot better if felt like the brothers weren't being split for him to work. I like that he is a family guy, but he shouldn't be the only one remembering that and he shouldn't be the only character that is written with sympathy. (Which is why I feel like he is forced. Sam and Dean are being written with little or no sympathy and the writers are dumping this manufactured drama and conflict on them, but Benny is the only one being given some sympathetic moments, so to me that's seems like they are trying too hard to make Benny work when everyone else is drowning in melodrama.)


    I think that I'm unfairly blaming him for what the writers are doing to Sam and Dean. Maybe my thoughts about him would change if the writers let up on constant conflict for the brothers. There as a reason for it in the fourth and fifth seasons, but they won't get passed it. They shouldn't just keep making it. It's old and doesn't help.

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  53. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 02:00

    I feel the same. It's like they're trying to force me to like Benny and I always react the opposite when I feel like they're "forcing" me to do anything. It's a personality flaw, I guess, lol.

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  54. percysowner10 January 2013 at 02:01

    Although I am more drawn to Sam, I really wasn't even trying to insult Dean here. The show has always portrayed hunting as the righteous choice. Hunters, as long as they are trying to rid the world of evil are the heroes of the show. This year i see Sam as being written the way I said, as a schmuck who didn't even try to find out if Dean was alive or dead, who hooked up with a woman for who knows what reason, because their relationship has barely been shown. Dean has two supernatural creatures helping him, both of whom are bonded pretty much to Dean alone. Cas still has the "profound bond" with Dean and obviously seeks Dean out when he needs help, not Sam. Benny has become the "better brother" The show has given no reason why Dean would need a reluctant human brother with him when he has an angel, who can cure injuries and stop demons and monsters with a touch of his hand and Benny who as a vampire is stronger, faster and more capable than Sam.



    To me Dean and his superfriends is not meant to be a hit on Dean. It is an expression of how unnecessary Sam has become to Dean as a hunter and as a brother and emotional support.

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  55. Miss Supernatural10 January 2013 at 02:03

    Thank you for posting this. I actually agree. I hope you can forgive me for my reply to you.

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  56. KatAdams0310 January 2013 at 02:22

    The Sera Gamble unhappiness comment is based on what I read from Convention comments. For example, Jensen asking about bringing back a list of guest stars and then there were some comments at the Rome 2012 convention about the trench coat scene that just seem to show that there was trouble with the writing. They weren't disrespectful comments, but the comments certainly showed that the actors were having problems.

    Then there were other reports about Jensen discussing changing the dialogue in "Slash Fiction" and there were apparently other scenes he had trouble with from his private Q &As. I like reading the convention reports on Supernaturalwiki, because they give interesting insight into what goes behind the scenes.

    It wasn't substantiated like a cast member coming out and saying mean things about Sera Gamble (like when Misha was directly asked if he hated Sera Gamble during the promoting of this season), but they did "complain" (using this term loosely) about the direction of the show and the writing at some of the conventions last year. They were trying to light-hearted and funny about it, but it's clear there was some displeasure and unhappiness about what she was doing. I have never seen anything from the media (except the one comment back in the sixth season that was taken out of context) that was negative about the show or the workers. I heard rumors that Cliff tweeted someone about looking forward to a drama-free eighth season, but I don't have a twitter so I don't know how true that is.

    I'm just basing it off the problems the actors have discussed at conventions they had and what little Jeremy Carver said about entering the show when he was giving interviews at the beginning of the season. He didn't say anything negative about Sera Gamble, but he did say that he thought the show had too complicated mythology and he wanted to tone it down. So, I don't think they had problems with Sera Gamble the person, but they did have problems with how she was handling the show. Everyone has been professional about the show, but I think they managed to be honest with saying they didn't like how things were going without being disrespectful.

    Just out of pure curiosity what was the "remotely negative" thing you heard about show from the actors. I can't remember anything that was said in a serious context that you could take as negative from the actors. (Unless you count the times Jeffery Dean Morgan has called out the writers on them not asking him back when he is willing to come back and his disappointment over some of things they have done to John since he left.)

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  57. percysowner10 January 2013 at 02:34

    No problem. The one thing that gets lost on boards like this is tone of voice. I understand that it is easy to misunderstand what is meant at times.

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  58. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 04:22

    I never wanted Sera to leave. It still felt like Supernatural to me when she was running it. Now it feels like a totally different show with Castiel and Dean just barely resembling the characters I knew, but Sam is from an alternate reality... when he is allowed to be involved. There are so many Sam flashbacks to give him something to do while Dean and Benny or Dean and Castiel are doing something different that it seems like Sam and Dean are in two different shows. When Sam is scenes with Dean, he is usually not the Sam I know. Sam would look for Dean. Sam would go all terminator without Dean, live like a hermit... literally all alone in the woods, or he would be in an institution. Of course, last year the granola munching Sam rubbing the wound in his hand was also not what any rational person could expect from someone with all of those memories from Hell... but this is Supernatural. Dealing with trauma beyond one episode is not really an option... At least that Sam was recognizable. Too cheery by far, but recognizable.

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  59. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 04:25

    Their pod people... Only Benny is a real character.

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  60. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 04:26

    Not that I mind seeing some shirtless Sam, but if it is a shirtless scene with Amelia during some soap opera wanna-be scene, I will not be happy... Of course, I may take screen shots, but that is just to patch the wounds that I have from this whole entire season. *grump*.

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  61. K Mac10 January 2013 at 04:34

    That was an incredibly boring minute and thirty-seven seconds. I hope the rest of the episode does not drag like that.

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  62. Kerinda Hartson10 January 2013 at 05:04

    I feel the the benny thing is forced to I have no sympathy what so ever to this guy. we have like him because dean likes him bull crap I am sick of this I had sympathy for amy she was a mother trying to take care of her son and looks what happen. I really could care less about this benny and I hope he is dead by the end of the season sorry to say it to all the benny fans out there but it really sucks and I am loseing all faith in this show right now.

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  63. sharonally10 January 2013 at 05:06

    No but you will find him under the big red bus parked in the corner.

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  64. Dahne10 January 2013 at 05:07

    I detest brother wars too and it seems like the most innocent comments are flaring them throughout the fandom these days. I am getting very sensitive to the Saint Dean and Special Snowflake Sammy comments myself as I don't see either brother in these lights at all. We know you aren't trying to start a brother war here and I very much appreciate your comments saying that.

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  65. Dahne10 January 2013 at 05:11

    Agreed. Both brothers are getting abused by the writers and the fan hate is pouring out on all sides because of it. Both brothers have been inexplicable this season and it sets the fandom up for division when the writers think brother rifts are the best way to cause drama. They are causing drama all right. Just not the compelling drama I want to see on my TV screen.

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  66. Dahne10 January 2013 at 05:15

    "making him stare into the middle-distance like he's having a stroke so you can then watch as he changes light bulbs" I am sorry but this line had me cracking up. It is so true and so unfortunate.

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  67. Kerinda Hartson10 January 2013 at 05:17

    I am with you there if they keep doing what they doing to sam this season well I say I had it I am done with the show I will put down all my supernatural poster and put tee-shirts and the mag and books and comic books and the stuff I got from the con I went to in oct in a boxs its alot of stuff I have put all away because the writers do not know how to write for sam anymore and the brothers fighting more is pissing me off too. god I miss the EK days the show was better then.

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  68. Dahne10 January 2013 at 05:20

    Agreed. Amelia needs to become relevant in some manner, either in Sam's character development or in the plot. Right now she's merely that added glowing tone break we get at the most awkward times. Kill the annoying love triangle, give her an actual purpose, and for goodness sake do NOT kill her or make her a monster. In fact, just move her out of soap opera land all together and make her a flesh-and-blood character we want to get to know.

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  69. MarissaAO10 January 2013 at 07:58

    It's a two minute clip, calm the fuck down. Jesus. there's another 43 minutes of the episode for Sam to appear in.

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  70. MarissaAO10 January 2013 at 08:00

    Sweet. I want Sam/Amelia to be endgame so very badly

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  71. MarissaAO10 January 2013 at 08:01

    I saw the promo, and thought, "there will be wank about Sam not appearing in two minutes of the show in which Dean and Cas appear together."


    And I was so right.

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  72. isleofskye10 January 2013 at 08:04

    I wonder? What do we need Sam or Dean for when Castiel can do everything single-handed?

    In fact Sam isn't there and Dean is just along so that he and Castiel can woobie-eye each other.

    Every scene between Dean and Castiel is exactly the same.Castiel always has the same expression on his face. This scene could be from any past season. The Dean Castiel dynamic is just boring now, so repetitive.
    X

    I watch for the Winchester brothers hunting evil TOGETHER and not this ensemble soap show.
    At this point, seeing that Carver is not writing any episodes I'm beginning to think he has given the reins of the show over to the lesser writers and has gone off to write some Being Human episodes instead!

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  73. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 08:11

    well they're hardly going to put the good stuff in a preview clip are they?

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  74. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 08:16

    I think the only way this can happen is for her to be more involved in the supernatural side of things, Sam needs to tell her or she just needs to find out. That would pretty much change the game. I think its going to happen but not untill the end of the season, I think JC has long term plans for Sam/Amelia. The actress imo needs better material to work with which is why I want her to find out about Sam's hunting life.

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  75. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 08:18

    agreed, but lets face it the writers arent going to invest that much time in Sam and the characters he interacts with. I would guess that any and all important talks Sam and Amelia have happen off screen.

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  76. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 08:21

    well JC has made it clear he's all about Dean and Cas so I'm just thankful Sam has even this storyline, it has potential to be something good but JC just doesnt care. He's just making sure Jared gets some screen time as per contract. No though has been put into this storyline, Sam and everyhting that has happened has just been to aid Dean's storyline this season.

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  77. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 08:22

    where exactoy was this alleged attack on Dean?

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  78. isleofskye10 January 2013 at 08:30

    Sam has been through enough in his short life, demon blood Hell, Lucifer, do we really want to condemn him to the rest of his life with a cold fish like Amelia?
    I certainly don't!

    I'm not interested in shirtlessness either.

    I want good stories about the brothers. I think they're far more sexy in jeans and shirts anyway.

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  79. comicfangirl10 January 2013 at 09:06

    Agreed.
    Don't try to reason with most of the people here about Sam or anything about Season 8, it has become useless. :)

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  80. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 09:29

    I dont think anyone is trying to deliberatly start any brother wars but its clear some fans are seeing each brother portrayed as stated above. There is an air of Saint Dean about Carvers writing and a rather anti Sam feel. They are giving the impression that Sam isnt a hero because he doesnt want to hunt and Dean has people he would rather be with because he both likes and trusts them more than Sam. To tell you the truth I have no clue why they are together this season outside of well thats the shows premise and the J's are contracted to appear in every episode.

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  81. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 09:32

    it is only a sneak peak, I hear this episode is an importnat one for Sam and theres some really big stuff coming up for him and for the brotherly relationship in the upcoming episode.

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  82. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 09:40

    ratings wise SPN is up on last season both live and Live+7
    season 7 live average was 0.7 with Live+7 it consistantly hit between 1.0 and 1.2.
    This season the live average is 0.9 and live +7 has been hitting between 1.2 and 1.6, I think if my calculations are right its around a 1.3/1.4 average.
    Its also up in total viewers on last season live and Live+7 too.

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  83. Katarzyna Skop10 January 2013 at 09:43

    I like it! The guys are back in the angel/demon business, which always makes me happy. They seem... content, for now, for the lack of a better word. Can't wait to see the moment whenit all goes to hell.

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  84. tvmonkey10 January 2013 at 09:46

    they arent exactly Team Free Will right now though are they? Sam seems to think he doesnt or isnt allowed to have free will and given everything that keeps happeneing to him I cant blame him. Cas is being controlled by angels.

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  85. Nicole Mallon10 January 2013 at 12:10

    poor kevin

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  86. Dahne10 January 2013 at 12:25

    Thanks for correcting me. Good to know a show in its 8th season really can increase viewership.

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  87. percysowner10 January 2013 at 14:29

    I hope that is right, but I'm not holding my breath. This has been the season of any character except Sam or Dean. I'm afraid Benny will suddenly jump in and counsel them by describing how hard his life was when he pulled away from his vampire family for the love of a woman.

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  88. percysowner10 January 2013 at 14:32

    To tell you the truth I have no clue why they are together this season
    outside of well thats the shows premise and the J's are contracted to
    appear in every episode.


    That is the best description I have seen. There is almost NO feeling between them. Sam doesn't want to hunt and Dean has people he is more comfortable and happier with. If they didn't have the Gates of Hell thing, I get the feeling they wouldn't care if they saw each other again.

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  89. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 14:47

    My sister and I joke all of the time about the episode where Castiel sniffs a body and says it had a bladder infection... then Sam lets his mind wander and thinks of Amelia... Bladder infection - Amerlia.... Bwahahaahahahahaha

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  90. Debbie Combs10 January 2013 at 14:50

    I believe they said it is important for Sam because he has to make a decision about Amelia which has nothing to do about anything unless Sam is getting out of hunting which is not the Supernatural show that I want. It would be like making Dean's storyline about changing the rims on the car while Sam is off saving the day. Who cares.

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  91. lsbloom10 January 2013 at 14:54

    I'm sorry if I made you feel attacked. Or that I wanted to start a war. That wasn't my intention--I was shooting for perspective to talk about balance and comparative presentation from the writers. I totes agree last episode was just terrible for everyone involved the brothers, old-school hunters, vampires, diner owners. In the end, I think the writers intended to do this and in my opinion it was a mistake.

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  92. cns3e10 January 2013 at 20:36

    Sam wasn't forced to abandoned his "normal" little life and forced to hunt. He choose to do so when he found about about all of Kevin's Voicemails and the possiblity of shutting down the Hell Gates.
    Sam is a big boy. If he doesn't want to hunt he can always walk away.

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  93. Calvin Hobbes11 January 2013 at 04:32

    Wow, so much complaining over a two minute preview. You'd think this was the original ending for Mass Effect 3.

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  94. comicfangirl11 January 2013 at 11:02

    Don't pay the haters any mind, let them rot in their hate while you enjoy Supernatural. :)

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  95. Season 8 is great11 January 2013 at 11:58

    Extremely excited for 8.10. Kevin really seems depressed and it's understandable. Cas and Dean working together is always a highlight. From spoiler we know that the episode won't be filled with humor and happiness. Castiel is in serious danger and I hope Dean can save him.

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  96. meg11 January 2013 at 12:00

    This is so great sneak peak! I love Castiel like this. When he show us he can do anything because he is an angel. Come on. And Dean is so proud of him and happy that Cas come back to him. And poor Kevin, he really looks horrible. Can't wait!

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  97. Diana11 January 2013 at 12:04

    Very excited about this episode! I love Kevin and Cas, so it's great to have them back. I hope they both come out of this episode okay. I worry!


    Dean is fabulous, as always.



    Plus, we'll be dealing with the Sam and Amelia cliff-hanger from the last episode. I like that Sam is getting to deal with some regular 'normal life' stuff mixed in with the hunting stuff, like Dean did back in season 6 when he was trying out the 'apple pie' life with Lisa. It seems like so often the arc of the season is always "what's wrong with Sam?" and it's a nice change for that not to be the case so far this season.

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  98. Zora11 January 2013 at 12:08

    Sam is going to be in this episode. Sam is in every episode, hardly just sitting around. Sam has his own storyline. This rift that is happening is going to smooth out but it has to happen because the bros are two different people and their co-dependency is damaging, especially for Dean. I would argue that Dean is the one who is getting the short stick again this season because the Amelia storyline will continue (Lots and lots of Sam and how things affect him) while the Purgatory and it's after effects have been swept away to make place for the bigger picture. And also, Dean and Castiel interacting is the one beautiful and quality thing this season has offered so far. It showed remarkable character growth on both parts so, I suppose, if you can't see it you can't see it but there it is.

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  99. perchedcas11 January 2013 at 12:15

    I'm really excited to see Dean and Cas on a case by themselves, the show's been lacking in that. But I also wanna see Sam's storyline progress further from the flashbacks we've seen on a regular basis up to now.

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  100. Veronica11 January 2013 at 12:16

    I am frankly speaking surprised by the negativity people show for 2 minute clip, just because it's Dean and Castiel working together again. Just because Sam is not shown, doesn't mean he's not in the episode. And usually they choose to promote the episode with clips that are overall not the most important part of the episode.
    The Sam negativity upsets me, since I still believe Carver has a purpose for him and is highlighting the differences between Sam and Dean that have always been there. Since the pilot.
    The show isn't about Sam and Dean driving down the road happily and killing monsters. They have always been two different people. Where would we be if there was no conflict? And I want Sam and Dean to be independent characters with their own circle of friends, before seeing them forced together in a car and doing the weekly monster of the week show. Most people are bored by that, from my understanding (as season 7 has shown).
    Thrilled that Dean is growing up and not relying on just a single person, but finding other people to care about, people who matter to him. Same with Sam who maybe will finally realize what it means to be a hunter.
    I'm worried about Cas, but I hope Dean and Cas will grow closer than ever before.

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  101. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:16

    I'd love her much more if they finally let her in on supernatural, so she can get involved more (and not stuck her with boring Don storyline). She looks like she could be badass.

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  102. Lora11 January 2013 at 12:18

    Dean is so happy when Cas is around, and Kevin I love you haha

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  103. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:19

    Oh wow, again with the Sam whine? He's not going anywhere, geez. This is a two-minute clip, it hardly shows anything. I'm excited for this week's Cas drama, as well as Sam&Dean (can't wait to hear Cas saying 'stow away your crap', because he's basically us).

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  104. sharonally11 January 2013 at 12:20

    Wank can work both ways . I dont think the problem is so much Sam not appearing it is the overall feeling of where Sam is on the show . Dean and lets be honest Dean has two other 'brothers' that have been underlined by the writers and Sam seems to of become the outsider . This season has not enhanced Sam or frankly advanced him just rather that Jeremy Carver has re-enforced sterotypical ideas about Sam . I just wish they had spent more time on creating a believeable relationship between Sam and Amelia and one the audience connected to and invested in rather than the soap opera , triangle with her husband stuff they have come up with.

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  105. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:21

    Well, we clearly saw in the first promo that they reunite with Sam at the beginning of the episode, I have no idea why's everyone so scared. They'll probably use Cas drama to reunite them.

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  106. Lora11 January 2013 at 12:21

    what? Of course Sam is important to Supernatural and to us the fans, are we watching the same show?

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  107. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:24

    Have you not seen the first promo? They reunite with Sam at the beginning, most probably. I'm pretty sure they'll use Cas angst to reunite the brothers.

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  108. Veronica11 January 2013 at 12:28

    I think the problem is more how Amelia was characterized in the beginning. Before season 8 started I wanted a story for Sam that is not a supernatural one, and we're being given that, but most people call it boring and I can only agree, but human storylines serve to highlight character development just as much as supernatural ones, so I still hope Sam will realize that normal life is out of the cards for him. And I think we're headed that way.
    What the writers are doing is getting rid of the codependency and that's a good thing, since it's a psychological condition that always worked against Sam and Dean as individual characters. And they are.

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  109. romy11 January 2013 at 12:29

    So Sam doesn't appear in a two minute promo from a 45 minute episode and suddenly he's "written out"? Never change Supernatural fandom. Anyway, I'm loving season 8. Sam, Dean and Cas are finally getting a chance to emotionally react to the events in mess that was s7, and I'm thrilled that there's been greater communication between Dean and Cas. They've learnt that lack of communication is what lead to the breakdown of their 'profound bond' in s6. My only complaint is, where is Meg? I would love for her to come back and dethrone Crowley and become 'Queen of Hell' :)

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  110. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:33

    Have you ever considered that Sam didn't go down that route this time around *because* it turned out so badly in the past? I mean, he lost Dean in 'Mystery Spot' and turned into Norman Bates. He lost him when Dean went to hell and freed Lucifer. In their hunt for Leviathans literally everyone he knew died. Maybe this time around he just thought: "Better not to touch or do anything, maybe I need to run away from it all." I'm sorry, but that's not OOC for me. It might be a bit boring or slow at times, but I'm willing to give it a chance. Everyone is giving him so much shit for his decisions and it hurts me.
    The only thing I'm not happy about is the slowness of his story, I'd like them to introduce Amelia to supernatural already and drop the Don storyline. Let him have his longdistance relationship with her while he hunts with Dean.
    (Which is, btw, probably going to happen soon, it's just a matter of time. I don't mind the slow development, but seeing all the whine, I kind of wished they hurried it along a bit, just so I don't need to read pointless wank.)

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  111. Veronica11 January 2013 at 12:34

    Kinda agree with you on Dean getting the short stick. It's really frustrating as a fan

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  112. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:36

    Wow, overreacting much? Especially since Dean's storyline has been taking the back seat to Sam for the last couple of seasons.

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  113. Lora11 January 2013 at 12:37

    People should stop using Sam to spread hate over supernatural

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  114. sharonally11 January 2013 at 12:42

    I wouldnt disagree about Amelia's introduction nor that any relationship can advance character development but I dont feel the Amelia one has done that for Sam. It isnt the co dependancy that I have issues with it isnt necessary for me but the key being the types of relationships they are giving each brother .

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  115. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:44

    i vote for bringing her in on supernatural in typical winchester fashion, by don burning on the ceiling :)) just kidding, but seriously, she needs to kick ass soon

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  116. Veronica11 January 2013 at 12:45

    I can understand that. They should have developed her in the same way that they have developed Benny.

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  117. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:46

    sorry, but you're talking out of your ass. Sam has always been relevant, even more so than Dean. Dean is the one who's always stuck with 'taking care of xyz' storylines while Sam gets to be the big hero.

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  118. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:56

    I honestly don't get this 'Sam isn't in the show anymore' comments. The only episode that didn't have prominent Sam moments was 8x07, because it's purpose was to shed some light on the bigger picture and Cas coming back. I don't really get what you want when you say "we want show about two brothers" anymore, it's repeated over and over again without actual explanation to back it up. Can you explain more? I mean, the show is still primarily about the brothers, their interactions and issues. Or am I missing something? If you want them to be happy and cool with each other all the time, well that's just not realistic, especially since they're both very different people.

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  119. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 12:59

    my main issue with amelia is the slow progression of the story.

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  120. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 13:03

    It's a matter of perception, yeah Dean has been presented as self-righteous, but he also didn't have a decent mytharc storyline since never. All he does is relate to other characters, while Sam gets to be the hero. This year is a bit different (though I'd argue not so much for Dean), and there's hate all over the place. Chill out and let the story develop before shouting "Sam is irrelevant".

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  121. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:25

    The problem is that Sam still hasn't been allowed to emotionally react to all of his events since season 5 (being Lucifer's vessel, going to hell, being soulless). Instead we have him immersed in an awful love triange, which is completely unlike Sam, for reasons that are still unclear.


    I agree with you though that a sneak peek isn't an indication of how much a character will appear in an episode.

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  122. sharonally11 January 2013 at 13:26

    Well we dont know if Amelia will continue and we dont generally get lots of Sam with how he feels as yes maybe the Purgatory sl will disappear but so did Sam's wall coming down and its after effects esp once we got the Cas quick fix in fact Sam's history seems to of been handwaved away . Dean has always had the stronger storytelling with a strong pov on how he feels and what he thinks in not only his own sl's but in Sam's while Sam remained a mystery . Dean will also have Castiel who has now been a part of the show for a while and we dont know what will happen with Benny.


    Amelia ? well that might be a continuation but it is highly unlikely unless she becomes a hunter that she will play a major role in the show and the reaction to the character may not give her a given on the show. Dean is in a different position with both Castiel and Benny and also in how he is allowed to keep his issues and hurts and bring them back up to aim at Sam.And if Dean is getting the short end of the stick then Sam is getting the stick at all.

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  123. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:28

    I don't want another message to "stow your crap." I'd like to hear some real communication between Sam and Dean instead for a change. Everything that went down in the last episode shouldn't just get shoved under the rug. They used to be so much better at talking in the earlier seasons.

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  124. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:34

    I agree that the clip does not mean that Sam won't be in the episode, but I think people are afraid of what Carver's "purpose" for Sam is, based on what they've seen. Since season 5, Sam has served as nothing more than a plot device with no emotional insight or development season after season, and this season - while different - is not showing signs of being any more satisfying.


    I'm not sure what you mean by "Sam will finally realize what it means to be a hunter." I think Sam has always had a pretty realistic idea of what it means to be a hunter. Unlike Dean who has alternated between idealizing it and despising it, Sam has always been shown to have a more realistic view. He sees the problems with it (that they lose their chances for having real lives) and the value (saving people). I don't see the point in devoting a season or more to teaching Sam a lesson that he has known since at least season 2, if not season 1.

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  125. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:36

    If we seriously get "lots an dlots of Sam and how things affect him" that will be a wonderful change. We haven't had that since season 2!

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  126. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:39

    I think most Sam fans want some balance with Sam - both Supernatural action character development. They manage to have this balance with Dean every year so a lot of people are puzzled why they don't do the same with Sam. Is writing for two characters at the same time too much for the writers - kind of like walking and chewing gum?

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  127. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 13:41

    No, they have been better at sweeping things under the rug. For them to really clear the air, they need everything ugly out in the open. Only then can they fix things. I firmly believe we're moving towards that.

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  128. chris68411 January 2013 at 13:44

    Personally I feel like we've seen enough ugly in the open. I want to see them talking and listening.

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  129. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 13:44

    Btw, they wouldn't have Dean saying "You left me there." in every other episode if the writers weren't aware of it, which makes me think they have a plan for Sam & Dean. It's just a bit slow (I'll admit).

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  130. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 13:49

    Well, I think they will. I think that everyone's aware they aren't going to split up, so the reconciliation is obviously near. I'm actually glad they didn't do the 'fallout' in a half assed way like in s7 over some irrelevant Amy monster -- they actually had it over real issues that exist between them since forever.

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  131. María Emilia11 January 2013 at 13:58

    Cas is amazing, CAS IS AMAZING!!! His relationship with Dean is amazing!! Dean looks so so so happy and light when Cas is with him, I hope writers will understand that once and for all. Dean is not the happy Dean we know if he is not around Cas. I will miss Cas after this episode, you have no idea how much... Dean and SPN in general will miss him too, hope he appears again before 8x17...


    Kev, on the other hand, is flawless, I love him since 7x21 and I wait a lot of him, great character.



    And about lack of Sam... people, are you serious? It's just a 2 minutes preview! No one is writing Sam off, for Chuck's sake! Some people can love more or less his story this season, but he is still one of the main characters. And the writers are trying to get rid the codependece Sam and Dean had (I'm glad I can talk in past tense), and I celebrate that!

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  132. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:28

    Dean this season is the closest to the "real" Dean than anything I have seen since season 4.

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  133. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 14:29

    this post sums up my feelings and thoughts on sam's storyline: http://enochian-joke.tumblr.com/post/40251814312/im-sure-this-is-not-news-to-anyone-but-i-think-i

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  134. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:29

    Every episode, minus that Citizen Fang thing, has Dean and Sam hunting together. This one apparently will too.

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  135. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:30

    I thought that was the main plot of seasons 4, 5, and 6.

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  136. chris68411 January 2013 at 14:32

    This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sam lost Dean a lot of times but trying to get him back has never backfired on him. He lost him in Mystery Spot but kept trying, and eventually figured out it was Gabe pulling the strings. He lost him to Hell in season 3, but that wasn't Sam's fault. There have been a lot of times when Sam has tried to rescue Dean and has succeeded. He rescued Dean in Wendigo, Hunted, Scarecrow, What Is and What Should Never Be, Sin City, and the list goes on.


    JC in deciding that Sam no longer believes in rescuing Dean is making a huge jump with his character, and that needs a LOT more explanation. Is Sam sucidal now and believes they both should be dead?


    And if the argument is that Sam truly believed Dean had died, given all Sam knows about the Supernatural, the writers needed to fill in the gaps and give Sam good cause to believe Dean was dead. And, if they were going to go that route, they should have had Sam state his belief clearly in 8.1. If he believed Dean was dead, why wouldn't he say that to Dean directly every time Dean brought up Sam not looking for him?


    Carver is making it look like Sam secretly wants Dean dead because he wants to leave Dean and hunting and can't stand up to Dean. That is totally OOC for Sam and a MAJOR character assasination.

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  137. chris68411 January 2013 at 14:34

    You're obviously watching a different show than I am.

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  138. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:42

    If anyone is worried about Cas and Dean stealing the show away from Sam, rest assured that you won't have to - Cas barely makes appearances, while Sam and his girlfriend have had plenty of airtime. They will have plenty of airtime in this very episode. Amelia has had plenty of airtime in almost every episode. Dean's main story (Purgatory) is already done, according to the people who run the show. Once Cas is gone again, as he always is, Dean will get back to arguing with Sam and staring mournfully at Sam in no time at all.

    This sneak peek is a cheap fakeout, more or less. The promos for this episode are nothing but Cas being tortured. That's what Cas is to the show - he's there to show up every once in a while to bait his fans. Presumably they realized having a sneak peek which also involves him being tortured was redundant, so they allowed a minute and a half where Dean and Cas actually get to talk and interact without wanting to curl up into a ball.

    I watch the show for Cas and Dean and Sam. My basic liking for Sam is the only reason that I haven't written off the character after the awful writing for him this season.

    I am a big fan of the Castiel and Dean friendship/bond/relationship. I think it's unique for TV, always brilliantly acted, full of chemistry, and something that has kept me going with the show even when they try to destroy or downplay it.

    It doesn't always have to be a contest between Sam or Cas. If it was, then Sam would win hands down, since he's a major part of every single episode in every single season.



    This is just one sneak peek. If Cas is around, he'll just be tortured or exist as a plot device. So for those of us who are Cas fans, and Cas and Dean fans - I enjoy the sneak peek. I just wish it was more than some bone to throw.

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  139. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:47

    Season 4 - Sam affected by Dean's death, making him turn to demon blood and Ruby. Sam addicted to demon blood. Sam believing he can stop Lilith with these powers. Dean looks on in horror.


    Season 5 - Sam is guilt-ridden but pushes away his guilt because he has to be strong to stand up to Lucifer. Dean looks on with angst. Dean falls apart under the strain. Sam holds Dean together when everyone else loses hope. Sam saves the world by sacrificing himself, because he's strong enough to choose his brotherhood with Dean over any of Lucifer's evil.


    Season 6 - Sam doesn't have a soul. This shell of Sam has a lot of fun and causes a lot of drama. Dean is horrified. Dean gets Sam's soul back. Sam has to piece together the damage his soulless self did and is hurt that he was misled by Dean. Dean looks on with guilt and anger. Sam doubts Cas, and his doubts are immediately proven right. Sam suffers the true brunt of Cas' worst, as the wall protecting him from memories of the cage is taken down. Sam has to defeat his soulless self and yet still manages to strike a killing blow against Cas (if Cas had still been an angel). Dean looks on in confusion and sadness.

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  140. MarissaAO11 January 2013 at 14:49

    Speaking for both myself and my sister, we're both really enjoying Sam's storyline this season. It's nice to see him dealing with something that's not supernatural forces screwing around with him. I'm hoping that over the course of the next three seasons Sam's relationship with Amelia continues to develop and he ends up finding a way to exist with a foot both in the "normal" world and the hunting world. I wish Amelia had been as well developed as, say, Benny, but it's not like the writers don't still have time to do that. She's at least a stronger character than Lisa, who seemed to be written with the singular intention of being the perfect woman for Dean. And personally, I always enjoy having a little bit of soap opera in my shows.

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  141. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:51

    Sam's wall story ran for over a year. Dean's Purgatory story is already over, according to the showrunners.


    Cas barely appears - he's in 5 episodes this season and 2 of those were short flashbacks. He might appear in more but if he does it probably won't be for long. The show only talks about him in context with the tablet "mystery". Amelia is part of a love triangle that Jeremy Carver seems very proud of.

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  142. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:53

    Considering that Sera's idea of the show was having everyone sit around depressed and talk bitterly about how everyone dies, I don't see much likelihood of a big campaign bringing her back.

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  143. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:54

    I would agree about Sam, but to me this is "the real Dean." I haven't seen anything out of character for Dean.

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  144. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 14:58

    Any time Cas and Dean have any screentime together you're going to get a lot of negativity. They're the only reason I still keep up with the show, and even that is strained this season. But when I go to comment boards I know most of the talk will be about how bad this is.

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  145. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:00

    The biggest mistake was not finding someone Sam would have chemistry with. They should have put him with Jody Mills. They could have brought back Sarah from the first season, if the actress was available. There's a long list to choose from. This woman was not it.

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  146. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:01

    I agree that Dean seems most happy when Cas is around. I just hope the show sees that a lot of people love the characters together.

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  147. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:06

    I think the only reason they have Dean with other people is to knock him back down and show him in the end he can only rely on Sam. That's probably why Cas and Benny only show up sporadically. I think we're supposed to know that Dean's comments about Benny are a lie, a sham. But poor writing has taken away from the Sam/Dean relationship when it wasn't intended.

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  148. sharonally11 January 2013 at 15:09

    Sam's wall story lasted 6 episodes and for half a season we didnt even have the real Sam. Amelia will not appear in every episode I back up and stand by everything I said . Castiel is a part of the show Benny has been pretty much universally embraced .Dean's Purgatory is on the backburner for the moment not over. Amelia may stay or if she doesnt work and the fandom doesnt like the sl the chances are it will disappear.


    Even if Purgatory did go Dean will never be written like Sam so there is little chance that Dean's relationships and pov will not be upfront.

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  149. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:10

    Well, that's your opinion, I still think it was *not healthy* the way they acted for each other. Mind you, I don't think what's doing now is exactly right, it's basically just another extreme. Fight or flight, this time he chose flight. I don't think it means he doesn't care. (Actually, don't stone me here, but I think a lot has to do with Jared's indifferent acting this season :( maybe if they put it more in text and relied less on acting choices, I don't know...) I don't think he didn't *want* to save Dean, I just think he was tired and alone and just plain done with it all. Then Dean came back and basically loaded all of his pent up, misguided frustration on Sam's shoulders and Sam... well, he closed off and went on defensive. Again, I'm not saying you have to like the direction, but I personally think it makes a lot of sense.

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  150. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:14

    I agree wholeheartedly. I don't see the reason Sam and Cas should be mutually exclusive, when the best episodes seem to be the ones with Team Free Will working side by side. I don't really understand show's need to minimize Cas' screentime, when it's so evident that Sam and Dean actually work better off of each other when they have a third person as a buffer. :/ Hopefully, they'll reach to the same conclusion by the end of the season, I'll write it off as Carver coming to the show for the first time since season 5.

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  151. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:16

    The "Dean sent a text about Amelia, he's mean!" stuff was cheap character kneecapping. It didn't work for me, since if Dean hadn't done that, Sam might have been killed by Benny. What happened with Martin was disgusting and also OOC for Sam.

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  152. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:23

    Season 7 as a whole was basically only Sam and Dean in the car, alone, with MOTW episodes. It was terrible and boring. To me, Sam, Dean and the brother relationship in general have much more meaning when they throw other characters into the mix. I think it was SPNs greatest mistake killing every minor character we knew and loved. I don't hate Sera, she had one of the greatest one shot episodes, but as a showrunner, not so much.

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  153. chris68411 January 2013 at 15:24

    There are only so many gaps in the narrative an actor can fill in with meaningful looks. If they overdo it they're accused of overacting. I think Jared has delivered when he's had consistent, decent writing and a clear character path to work with, so we'll have to agree to disagree there. Besides, we don't even know if Jared knows the answers to questions I raised above - what it was that made Sam believe Dean was dead, or whether that was in fact the case. My understanding is actors usually don't know more than what's a few weeks ahead for their character.

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  154. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:25

    Ugh, I agree, I don't know why they didn't go with Jody (I guess because of the whole Bobby thing?) They had amaaaazing chemistry in Time After Time. Ehhh.... missed opportunities.

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  155. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:28

    Sam's wall story started around mid-season 6 and kept being woven into episodes until mid-season 7. From what the show has said, as far as I know, it looks like Dean's Purgatory story is done.

    Dean's relationships are with two recurring characters who have short airtime. I think Amelia has had almost as many episodes as Cas and Benny have had, combined. I would say that his relationships are more interesting than Sam/Amelia, but I put that down to poor casting for Amelia, more than a deliberate effort.

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  156. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 15:30

    Kim Rhodes (Jody) said that the relationship was supposed to be "motherly". Since there isn't that huge of an age difference, I don't know why. I thought they had nice chemistry.

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  157. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:30

    I guess what I meant to say is that Jensen can pull off inconsistent writing better than Jared can, so the gaps in writing are more prominent on Jared's part. There are problems in the storyline, sure, but to be so dramatic as to say Sam is irrelevant, the brother bond is destroyed or throw around terms like character assassination--- I think it's a bit too much. The biggest problem in Sam's story is actually the lack of chemistry with Amelia (someone suggested Jody Mills, that would be awesome actually), and the lack of conviction in Jared's acting (there just isn't enough to go by. He could show grief and remorse without speaking the words, but he didn't. I think he's much better when he's being written as your typical epic hero, and Jensen is the one who can pull off heavy drama).

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  158. Zora11 January 2013 at 15:34

    Yes, but the thing is, just because Amelia is not connected to the supernatural part of the story does not make her any less important. Sam's growth as a character depends on his storyline and I find his storyline to be a natural progression of his character. He has a chance to have a life he always wanted, to at least try it out.
    Dean's baggage has once again been put under rugs and is going to be, as you put it, only used in relation to Sam which is not the only way Dean's problems should be handled, it's disrespectful to his character. And even if the show is in Dean's pov that doesn't mean he is the most important character who we get to know all about. He's more like a narrator who is very rarely asked how he feels about the story and because it's so rare he will, naturally, blurt them out all at once in extreme situations (the ghost possession comes to mind) and then he'll be expected to pick up the pen and move on.

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  159. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:35

    That's just the thing, the writers sometimes push some relationships that have no chemistry, while on the other hand hinder those who aren't meant to be written as such, but the actors pull it off spectacularly. Sam/Jody,Madison,Sarah, Dean/Castiel, Victor Henriksen with both Sam and Dean. Sometimes the writers should adapt, like they did with Cas and Dean (Castiel was supposed to be killed in season 4 after couple of episodes and replaced with Anna, but they decided against it since Jensen had more chemistry with Misha than with Julie Niven -- all on screen relationships should work like this, that's the beauty of television, you can adapt to the reactions of the audience)

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  160. Zora11 January 2013 at 15:36

    Sam and his problems have been the center of all the seasons so far, I agree. I'm sure Sam fans want even more of him and that's okay, just don't ignore the fact that other characters end up underused.

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  161. chris68411 January 2013 at 15:38

    Agree to disagree that Jensen and pull off inconsistent writing. An example - the beginning of season 7. Dean was all over the place from episode to episode.

    I would say the biggest problems in Sam's storyline is yet another season of half-assed writing for him with little to no POV episodes and his character flopping around to fit whatever the plot point of the moment is. I'm not crazy about what I'm getting from Amelia, or the actress who portrays her, but that's a minor annoyance compared to the mess that is Sam's storyline, or lack of one.

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  162. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 15:45

    In terms of character development, his arc isn't so terrible to me, but I feel like it has no place on Supernatural without them finding a way to tie it in with the main story -- it's not epic as other storylines, I guess? Especially since Sam's place in the show was more as a hero since season 1? I don't know, I'll wait for the new episode to judge where they'll going to go with him.
    I don't know what you mean about Dean in the beginning of season 7, I though it was pretty consistent in a sense that he portrayed grief ridden alcoholic really well. (but to be completely fair, there was an episode or two where they dropped the ball, but I blame the writers for that -- they're actually consistently the same writers I always have the problem with when it comes to Dean's characterization).

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  163. lsbloom11 January 2013 at 15:47

    I was not a Sera fan. I wasn't really a season 6 or season 7 fan. I highly dislike the idea of stripping away all the quintessential things that made Supernatural Supernatural for a plot point and to get the boys in a specific emotional state. And I won't even touch killing Bobby, which shall never be forgiven.


    But I dislike even more this season. because as bad as taking away baby, the aliases, and having lame bad guys so you can keep making the same Dick joke over and over again was none of that compares to making my characters not themselves, forgetting to have any season-long plot whatsoever and NO bad guys not even lame ones, taking the snark out of Crowley, and ripping open old wounds to poor salt in them and laugh as the fandom devours itself. When Sera finally explained RoboSam, I was like okay, interesting idea, should have included hints earlier so people just didn't assume you didn't know the character. Now, the best case scenario anyone can come up with is to basically erase the entire first half of the season. So yeah, if nothing changes and Dean keeps yelling at Sam and Sam keeps pouting and fixing microwaves, I'm gonna revoke the Sera Gamble Supernatural restraining order, because even crap was better than this. (Plus, there's nobody left for her to kill so we're pretty safe on that front.)

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  164. Charlotte11 January 2013 at 15:50

    Okay, since you want Sam to have the POV - which is something I have read again and again and again, from Sam fans all over, then fine..let him have the POV, but only if this means he gets the same type of storytelling that Dean has had all this time. So if we get Sam's POV, we would have him revolving around Dean and Cas, acting concerned for Dean and Cas, becoming completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things, with nothing revolving around him because the story won't be about him, not anymore, he's the observer right?....the one allowing us to see the story through his eyes. The story would be about others - Dean and Cas. THIS is what you want? Because this would have to be the scenerio inorder for Sam to have POV, because otherwise for Sam to have POV ontop of being in the centre of the mytharc, or having something wrong with him for the umpteenth time, and everyone else revolving around him, would turn him into the worlds biggest special snowflake which is hardly a hit with the audience. It would turn people right off.

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  165. lsbloom11 January 2013 at 15:51

    Okay STOP IT! You want to complain about brother wars, fine. You want to go around to every post and argue with people unhappy with the season fine. But, Do. Not. Start attacking the actors. It is totally uncalled for. And it is patently ridiculous that someone who is annoyed that people are upset about this season characterization of Sam would think that attacking the actor playing him isn't purposely inflammatory. Stop it.

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  166. Charlotte11 January 2013 at 15:51

    I'm all for Sam having the POV, but ONLY in exchange for Dean to finally have a significant storyline that actually revolves around him, with important characters who are interested in him, have plans for him maybe, that lasts beyond half a season and we see it through Sam's eyes with him showing concern (and not the judgemental type either) - because that's the thing, we may get Dean's POV but it's rarely about himself...it's almost always about others, so if Sam was to get the POV then I expect the same unless they want Sam to be incredibly self involved. Let Dean have the mytharc, let Sam have the POV and show us how much he actually cares for his brother and others. If that's what we're talking about then okay, yes please.

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  167. sharonally11 January 2013 at 15:53

    No the mytharc was the driving story since the begining but the story was told through Dean and his pov and reactions . Dean's issues were and have been explored even today his issues are still part of who he is. Dean has never been underused as it was through him the story has been told. Sam having the mytharc has never equated to Sam having the storytelling that has not been the case. What many simply want is a balance a emotional exploration of Sam that is told through Sam not Dean. Mytharc or not the show has been Dean centric because it was his pov and emotional journey and how everything impacted him the story has been told through.

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  168. lsbloom11 January 2013 at 15:56

    While I agree with your points. I think it would be too little too late. She's been an annoying plot point and unpleasant addition for too long. They would have to make her majorly cool to overcome that, and that seems highly unlikely. She's a goner in my mind. They stood her in a hole the minute we met her by having her completely illogically yelling at a distraught Sam. And they haven't turned her around since. The love triangle was the kiss of death. Now, if only Death would come and take her away and turn out to be the big bad for this season.

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  169. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 16:01

    I'm not attacking anyone, I actually really like Sam and Jared. It's called opinion and I've been nothing but respectful towards other people's opinions that are different than mine. There's no need to get defensive with me.

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  170. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 16:03

    I agree with you about a lot of the mistakes this season (although I don't think the show has had any season-long plots since season 5 - the soulless Sam story and the Campbell stuff was junked halfway and we mostly got the Eve non-story until it was time for Sera to run Cas off the show; the Leviathan story was barely featured and mostly amounted to dick jokes). But other than the Sam hack job, which is definitely a mistake, I don't think the characterization has been off.

    I hate the contrived tension between Sam and Dean, and I think the pacing of the season has been very poor, with no energy, with recurring people rotated in and out like those whack-a-mole games, having no apparent relationship with each other (remember when Benny and Cas knew each other? The show doesn't). But I can't go back to Sera after what happened with Cas. I hate the writing for him and reduced non-role this season - the one bright spot has been that he and Dean are so close again, and even that might be just so they can take it away - but I can never forget what she did to his character and role on the show.

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  171. isleofskye11 January 2013 at 16:03

    There's a difference between Sam and Dean hunting together as a team, convinced they are doing the right thing and looking out for each other and hunting together because they are forced to by the writers who have decided that it's cooler to have the two brothers eternally at war with each other .

    That might be great for the writers but for who watches it's painful and unpleasant,at least for me and is a regression not a character development.
    X

    As for Castel he has gone from the proud warrior angel in Lazarus Rising whom I admired, to a character who is nothing like that person any more .
    X

    He has now also been upgraded with three "amazing" new powers;

    A) getting inside peoples' heads and bringing a huge Sam in with him;
    B) analyzing a corpse by smelling it,
    C ) talking to cats with even the cat snarking back at him.
    X

    Obviously Castiel has a following and each person will have their own reasons for it but as character he's now far too powerful to be on a par with the Winchesters yet he still acts like a naive child.
    IMO he just doesn't fit in any more.

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  172. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 16:11

    I don't think Cas acts like a naive child. He's a very damaged being who bears the full weight of war and devastation. The only time this season he acted childish was to hide his pain - when he was alone with Dean he admitted that he was close to suicide. I think Cas' powers are meaningless in the grand scheme of things - they could easily be removed, as they have been in the past. They are kept only because the show doesn't want to have him in a larger role.


    If anything this season has reinforced to me just how effortlessly Cas fits into the show, when he's given a chance. I immediately bought him in the otherwise somewhat dull Tran family/Dean/Sam dynamics. He is never given a chance. He is there only long enough to be tortured and full of pain and then leaves again.


    I agree that I'd rather see Sam and Dean getting along, but I was replying to the idea that Sam won't be with Dean and isn't needed. The show works overtime to force the brothers to stay together.

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  173. sharonally11 January 2013 at 16:11

    All Sam did was jump into a pit and then it was to make up for his 'mistakes' not because he was being heroic and frankly it didnt change very much. Dean has been the shows heart its voice.


    The mytharc was a cold place for Sam with very little exploration but instead it was how he acted and how that impacted those around him esp Dean. I only wish Sam had more character and less mytharc but that wasnt the idea. Dean has been seen has more of a hero than Sam and Sam certainly isnt being seen has a hero this season.

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  174. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 16:18

    Cas is always some type of a threat to some viewers. Any time he's in an episode, complaints start that suggest he's going to take over the show. Any decrease in ratings is always blamed on him. The days of him replacing Sam on the show, which was never going to happen anyway, are long, long gone. I would just settle for him appearing in more episodes and continuing to have great scenes with Dean, without being tortured or written as a failure and a burden. Apparently that is simply too much for Jeremy Carver.

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  175. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 16:20

    I recently read one amazing article that dissects Sam and Dean and their role as heroes in the show: http://rootsunknown.tumblr.com/post/39864338359/genre-and-the-main-character I wholeheartedly agree with this.

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  176. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 16:23

    Yeah, it's getting funny to the point of ridiculous. Episode 2 had only 5 minutes of Cas, for example. Actually, only two episodes featured Cas more prominently, and in one of those Sam was featured just as much.

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  177. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 16:25

    I agree - I wonder if the show even realizes and adapts based on chemistry now. That was one of the best parts of the earlier seasons.

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  178. Peter Jor11 January 2013 at 16:34

    I actually saw a comment elsewhere that said Cas was ruined by having too much airtime. I don't know what to say to that. The only guest character who's had less airtime this season has probably been Garth. They have so much unused potential with Cas and his relationship with Dean and his past, and it just goes nowhere. It's sad when I know he's in an episode just to be tortured and then even one tiny clip of something else causes an avalanche of "Where's Sam?" Sam has been a huge part of every episode but 1 this season and Carver has heavily talked up his story in the press. If the story has tanked that's just down to poor decisions.

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  179. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 16:44

    I agree, I hope Carver will decide by the end of the season where he sees Cas. I don't need him to be in every episode, I liked the amount of screentime he had in season 5, but this constant push and pull and indecisiveness on how much he's supposed to be in the show is getting kind of ridiculous. I don't want to make assumptions, but as if they're afraid. I personally think the show is much stronger with him, he provides the counterbalance to Dean & Sam, he actually improves their relationship. Too bad "brotherbond"-stans can't see that.

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  180. Galadhwen11 January 2013 at 17:10

    I loved the chemistry Sam had with Sarah, but I think probably to much time has passed to convincingly bring her back. Jody would have been also a good idea but I think they were going for someone totally separated from the Hunting. Which does make sense after everything that has happened.

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  181. K.11 January 2013 at 17:11

    I love the way that this season is progressing. All previous seasons have been a question of 'what is the matter with Sam?' and for one, I really appreciate the fact that for the first time, Sam isn't dealing with demon blood or being Lucifer's vessel, but normal problems of the normal life he always wanted. It's not only giving Sam the chance to be developed as a character outside of the hunting lifestyle, but it's allowing other characters to have autonomy. Dean has always been written somewhat as an extension of Sam, looking after his little brother, and when Sam suddenly doesn't need looking after, that is allowing Dean a lot of freedom as a character to begin dealing with issues that have been present since season 1 but never actually addressed. And I do hope that we will see more of Cas. Castiel is such an interesting character in how he's exceeded all expectations that the writers originally had for him, and after his awful lack of screentime last season, I am looking forward to seeing that character explored, both within himself and in relation to both Dean and Sam. However, the show seems reluctant to expand their mindset beyond this 'two brothers' mentality, which is a shame, but I am also sure that even though Sam was not present in this clip, contrary to the concerns of others, he will have a story to play out in the second half of this season. The first half has done a wonderful job of setting up the emotional background of the conflict, and with the action that 8.10 has promised, it seems as though the second half will kickstart with important developments for all characters involved.

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  182. K.11 January 2013 at 17:30

    The problem the show has had with Sam post season 5 is that Sam has followed the journey of the traditional hero, and after his 'redemption' in season 5 from the fall of the hero in season 4, the writers struggled as to how they could continue his story, for the hero's arc does not continue beyond their redemption in most cases. But instead of choosing to then focus on Dean's character arc, which probably would have been better for all involved, instead it became a 'now what's the matter with Sam this time' story. And what has been 'the matter with Sam' has been after-effects from his redemption arc--being soulless, having Lucifer in his head. So instead of following set ideas about characters and plots that have been in place since people first began to tell stories, it simply became a matter of teasing audiences with Sam's well-being, and then at the last moment, taking Sam's autonomy away and instead of allowing him to fix his own problems, having a different character come in and fix it for him ie Death putting up the wall, Cas taking on Sam's pain (which hello, how insulting is it to bring a character back from the dead only to use them to 'fix' another?)
    So that's why ultimately I am optimistic about this season, because the focus has not been on Sam's issues. Yes, he has problems, but they are real life problems, and he's been given control over himself once more. I think it speaks to a far more subtle approach in the writing, and care in the characters. And Dean and Sam have certainly been dealing with issues this season that have been present for many seasons--this idea of their codependency and Dean's abandonment issues have taken forefront so far in terms of emotional development, and I for one am glad to see these problems finally being addressed in a satisfactory way. But I guess I do remain very pleased with the storylines for all characters this season so far, just because they seem to be being handled with much more care, and this first half of the season has been set up in such a way to support great development in the second half, as well as in later seasons, to go with Carver's three season plan. It's clearing issues out of the way, and essentially creating a clean slate in a lot of ways (with Sam even returning to that normal life similar to what he once had with Jess) so it gives the show runners a chance to begin new arcs with these characters, as opposed to just clinging to remnants of Sam's original hero storyline. I'm very happy with it. (Sorry for hijacking your post, it just seemed like a good basis for discussion!)

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  183. Charlotte11 January 2013 at 17:34

    I agree about the acting, and that possibly if Jared was able to say more with his facial expressions, and be a bit more clearer with his body language, it wouldn't be necessary for the writers to spell it out. If the actor makes the right choices then they don't need streams of dialogue to convey what's needed, just a look is enough..we've seen that with plenty of other actors, here and on other shows - actors that have barely more than cameos and still they make an impact and the audience understands what is going on with them.

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  184. sue beattie11 January 2013 at 17:37

    Thank you veronica and others who are alright with this clip i have no problem nice to see Cas and Dean working together again. I am so glad that Dean has forgiven Cas and guessing when Sam and Dean sit down and talk and have a mature talk about why Sam bolted and didn't look for Dean and such that the boys will be back. But we have to get Sam actually wanting to hunt. He needs reason Dean had purgatory which gave him a purpose again. Sam needs to realize that. But first we need to see how Sam and Amelia thing plays out. And if Sam is going to bring that baggage with him. And Carver I also have faith in him. So a two minute clip just has Cas and Dean I am happy and nice to see Kevin and even hear that garth is around. I still enjoy the show I loving the season I don't mind the conflict. And sorry babbling but want to thank the fans who pointed out that its two minutes and Sam will be back. Its a clip not the whole show. And can't wait for the rest of season to play out :)

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  185. Charlotte11 January 2013 at 17:38

    So basically Jensen was to blame for the inconsistency in the beginning of season 7 - but it's the writers fault with regards to Sam? That wouldnt have anything to do with the actor either?

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  186. Allison11 January 2013 at 18:07

    I am very excited for this episode. What's going to happen with Cas? What's Amelia going to say to Sam???
    I felt this little clip was kind of awkward out of context, but I'm excited to see Cas get back to being himself, showing his personality ("you look awful" haha) and showing more of his "guys please, I am an Angel, gimme that grocery list." So it's great because we get a lot of his Angel prowess but also his personality that he has as an individual.
    I'm also excited to see how this episode will develop the Dean/Cas relationship. There was a lot of development in episodes 7 & 8 that I want to see carried out. Feelings were hurt and explored and I hope that we'll come to resolve some of those issues soon.
    I really hope they do justice by Sam. It's great that we're exploring his personal/home life. I also hope we'll get a better feel for Amelia because so far we've only really learned about her through how Sam views her. I wanna know more about her in general! As someone said, it's nice to see Sam have a positive arc rather than a "poor Sammy" one.
    I am so excited for this episode; I am not ready for the feelings

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  187. sharonally11 January 2013 at 18:08

    I would agree with some of what you say but I do think that Dean has had more of the traditional hero,s journey than Sam and while I do believe in moving characters beyond certain aspects having Sam seek normal is not really doing that. I didnt want Cas coming in and fixing Sam but in reality that was what they were going to do from the moment they decided on the hand rub to represent Sam's wall falling and then when the time was right they brought Cas back and Sam is fixed . To be honest I want remenants of Sam's experiences they should make up who he is just like Dean's issues and experiences have with him. As for the issues while I agree Dean's are still relevant the Sam issues are only in the guise of wanting normal not really quite the same and to be honest after Sam's hell/cage I wasnt impressed with them being brought up or Dean declaring Sam not being a very good brother as I stated in another post it just re-enforces certain ideas about Sam .

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  188. chris68411 January 2013 at 18:13

    No, my point was that neither actor is responsible for the inconsistency in the writing and that there's only so much the actors can do to smooth things over.

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  189. Sara Ferrari11 January 2013 at 18:17

    Amen. I think at this point in the series SPN works best with Team Free Will. Cas has become a fundamental part of the show, his character is well liked by the fandom in general and is popular, plus he's friends with Sam and extremely important to Dean.

    However I'm looking forward to this episode. I like Cas' emotional arc so far, I want to see how it proceeds from here for him as a character and also how it influences his relationship with the boys (especially with Dean, of course). I can't wait for it next week.

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  190. tvmonkey11 January 2013 at 18:30

    who does Dean go to for help for in this episodes? Sam


    My guess is that this is not Dean and Cas with Sam and Amelia off on the side.


    Sam and Amelia happens early in the episode while Cas asks Dean for help and the Kevin thing.


    When Dean realises he needs Sam he goes to track him down and they have hostile words in Sam's motel room, Dean tells him that Cas needs their help and they agree to work together on the hunt even if they find it difficult with the issues between them.



    Cas meets up with them later and is frustrated with them so he tells them to 'stow their crap' there have bigger things to deal with


    Sam and Dean stow said crap to help and save the angel? I think that was the mission and also realise their is something up with Cas (more so than usual)


    In the end Cas disappears again, Sam and Dean agree to get back in the car and keep working on the 'bigger picture' though I think Sam still wants to quit hunting once the hell gates are closed and they still have issues


    End episode


    This is all about Sam and Dean, the other characters are just building the story around them (plot devices) Kevin/Cas/Crowley/Naomi building the mythology and Amelia/Benny building the brothers personal storylines.


    Its going to take a while for them to work out their issues but they will or at the very least they'll move on. They'll keep working together to close the hell gates and figure out what the angels are up to. They'll keep taking smaller hunts in the meantime. They'll keep moving towards their personal goals and keep wanting different things (Sam normal, Dean hunting) and it'll probably take JC the whole 3 years to tell that story.


    This is the story of Sam and Dean it aint always pretty but it is about them.


    I'd wager Sam and Dean are together for more of the episode than they are apart, working with each other more than working with or being with other people.


    I think Jared and Jensen only filmed apart for 2 or 3 days and most of that was shooting the Sam/Amelia stuff. Jared was on set while the others were if I remember correctly from set reports and the info from cons.

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  191. Lisa11 January 2013 at 18:32

    I want more Amanda Tapping.

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  192. KatAdams0311 January 2013 at 18:42

    We have no idea when they reunite or if it will be a the beginning of the episode. We can assume that it might be at the beginning of the episode since that is how it has usually been handle in the past, but we actually have no idea when they reunite. But the reason why I am worried is because earlier this season one of the strongest writers for this show, Ben Edlund, had Sam sitting at a computer for the majority of the episode of "Blood Brothers" and every now and then, Sam would think about his year with Amelia. It was choppy and it slowed the episode down, more importantly it had Sam completely cut off from the action of the episode. He did nothing of any importance. In fact, they used Sam as a way of putting Dean in more danger by having him yell at Dean in the house where vampires were trying to find him. We don't know if Castiel drama will reunite them or if Sam will be off with Amelia trying to figure out if cheating on Don is the right thing. The summary of the episode told us that Dean and Castiel will be dealing with Crowley "meanwhile" Sam is forced to choose by Amelia. That doesn't sound like Sam is going to be a major player in the supernatural part of the episode. And it sounds like they are going to keep dragging out the pointless conflict between the brothers.

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  193. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 18:50

    I understand what you mean. I honestly don't know, hopefully they're reunite soon. The thing is, I'm afraid the writers think they're doing right by Sam by giving his flashbacks so much screentime, whereas majority of the fandom disagrees and wants to see more action in the present or even purgatory. On a objective level I find his story relatively interesting, but it just doesn't fit with the whole pacing and the plot of the rest of the show. The only thing I disagree with you is that the conflict is pointless - I don't think it is, but I'd rather see them resolving it in the present, than watch Sam dwell on his blurry glowy memories of dogs and girls. At this point I kind of wish they did the whole Amelia flashback thing in a filler episode, just so we could move on.

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  194. K.11 January 2013 at 18:52

    See, I find that Sam's storyline is far more similar to the story of the hero (and I'm thinking like, traditional Greek hero myths when I say this) because, like the men featured there, he is already 'special' when he's pulled into the story, like a demi-god, and his story line is one of him accepting his 'destiny', going wrong--with a woman, who are often associated with the downfall of the traditional hero--and then slowly redeeming himself and ultimately sacrificing himself to save the world. It's a pattern that gets seen a lot in ancient Greek and Roman myths, and to an extent the stories of Arthur from England, which are of course what most of our storytelling today in the western world is based upon. Not that I don't think Dean is a hero, it's just that his story does not as closely match up to the traditional ideas as Sam's does. :) But Sam's story is finished, he's redeemed, so it's important for the show to move past that and finally let him take some control over his life. And of course his experiences still make up who he is, but in terms of character arcs, when a story is over, it needs to be over, instead of dragged along in the manner it was. He needs a new story now, and the show is setting him up so that he can. (The issues with Sam's wall breaking annoy me to no end because he's put through all this pain and then instead of it ever coming to a resolution with him, as a character, dealing with it, it just got taken away, so in the end all that struggle that Sam went though had absolutely no purpose in the story other than providing angst. Sloppy storytelling.)
    I'm not quite sure what ideas about Sam Dean is enforcing, but I'm actually quite glad all these issues are being brought up, only so that they can be settled and the questions answered. It's not fair of Dean to say that Sam was not being a good brother, but I think that speaks more to Dean's issues than Sam's. :/

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  195. Zora11 January 2013 at 19:28

    So you don't know how everything that's happened has affected Sam? You can truly say you don't know? It's very much been Sam's journey of discovering and overcoming his anger, his co-dependency and his darker side. What we have now is Sam who's freed of his brother enough to decide to just stop the cycle of self-sacrifice and start a new life with understandable difficulty, but a it's a chance nonetheless. And it is a damn story line. Meanwhile, Dean's alcoholism, depression and ptsd have been second to What's wrong with Sam and the main plot and that doesn't seem like it will change any time soon. But I suppose we'll never agree on this.

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  196. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 19:50

    I've read it. :)) No, it's fine, I think I understand better now. It's just that I've been burned by very nasty "Just the brothers" fans in the past who have zero respect for other characters, maybe that's why I'm occasionally on a defensive. I absolutely agree with you that it has to be fixed, because the whole storyline for Sam is pretty lackluster at the moment. The opinions I don't agree with (but see everywhere) that sometimes make me mad are: "They want Sam out of the show, Sam is irrelevant, Sam is being replaced, Sam is a dick brother, Sam wanted Dean to stay dead, the show is just about Sam&Dean, Cas has overstayed his welcome, etc."
    But your point of view --- I agree with pretty much everything. I'm a big fan of Sam & Dean's relationship and I hope they'll fix it soon. I'm primarily a Dean fan and I see problems in his story, too. For one, they dropped his purgatory story and once again he seems to be done for the season. I really wanted a nice myth arc for him, but I'm not sure if that's going to happen. The show has treated him as the number one caretaker for every character in the show since season 1 without clear involvement in the plot, I really hoped things would change. Maybe they have something planned? (Especially in the episode with Winchester grandparent? Dunno. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Sometimes I enjoy the season more in retrospect, when I have all the facts.)

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  197. Rhaenyss11 January 2013 at 19:53

    To be fair, Blood Brother was mainly used to establish Benny's character and jumpstart brother drama, so that was to be expected. I'd enjoy Sam's story *much more* if they'd hurry with this Amelia storyline, tie it in with the main plot. It really drags everything down. :/

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  198. Jen11 January 2013 at 21:23

    They're going to have like, 5 episodes to communicate after this one. Cas is going to disappear and won't return for a while.

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  199. KatAdams0311 January 2013 at 21:45

    I hope they reunite soon. I don't understand Sam's story nor the pacing. I agree it doesn't fit the show. If it connects to the main plot, they needed to start showing signs and foreshadowing a lot sooner.

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  200. KatAdams0311 January 2013 at 21:59

    I understand about being burned by nasty fans and it makes it going on the defensive very easy trap to fall into. I watch the show for both brothers and their relationship, but my favorites are Sam and Castiel. I want Sam and Dean relationship fixed too. Despite my ups and downs with Dean, I was really hoping that Purgatory would create some mystery for Dean connecting him to the mythology and Sam would have to figure it and out deal with it. So, I completely understand your disappointment with Dean not getting a myth arc at this point. Personally, I love Dean as a caretaker and big brother, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing I want for him. I don't understand why the writers don't break up some of their old patterns and do something new. Plenty of shows have proven that you don't need conflict to have an interesting friendship/relationship. And I think there have been many episodes of Supernatural that have shown that Sam, Dean, and Castiel are entertaining without being at each others throats. I don't want any of the characters replaced, but I want for each character to get their fair share of point of view and good story. I find it sad that Castiel is the only one that is tied to the mythology at the moment out of the three of them.

    But you are correct, it's a game of waiting and seeing; however, that doesn't excuse how poorly parts of this season has been handled so far. But they'll have a reason for it in the end. I hope so.

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