With season two of Once Upon A Time continuing tonight, I thought this would be a good point to write an article about this show. Several things have me worried about the writer's capabilities for this show. But first of all, let me say that I do really enjoy this show! But there are moments when I wish I could just turn off my writer's sense with the flick of a switch and "just go with it". Ignore that a story in a game, or a movie, or a book, or a TV show is flawed in my opinion, just to enjoy the views, get an adrenaline rush from all the flashing colours and have fun. And truth be told - it usually works that way... Just not for the universes I tend to care about. If you got me invested in your franchise, I will expect you to deliver the goods.
Which brings me to the problem with Once Upon A Time, you get me invested in your show and then betray me. When Emma and Snow got transported over to fairytale land the show kept telling us there was only one way for them to return to Storybrooke and kept hammering on that fact for the first half of season 2. So when the inevitable Cora/Hook Emma/Snow showdown came, I was at the edge of my seat. And then it happened all the logic of this show went out the window, the witch Cora who has been shown to be immensely powerful was tossing around silly fireballs. Then to make matters worse, the pirate captain Hook lost a sword fight to someone who has barely ever held a sword. At this point it just became cringe worthy, suddenly Emma was special! We have seen several 'true love' couples on this show, according to the show it happens more often than we think. So wouldn't either Cora or Regina, who have stolen so many many hearts, ever encountered such a person? Seems pretty likely, so why is Emma suddenly so special? Probably so Cora conveniently couldn't grab her heart. Of course now that the writers had effectively neutered Cora and Hook, Emma and Snow made it to Storybrooke and the portal closed behind them. But the writers had painted themselves in a corner when the Cora/Hook combination really took off. So five minutes later Cora and Hook magically appear on his ship at the edge of Storybrooke.
That makes no sense and goes against what the show was telling us for the first half of season 2. If they rewrite the logic on such an event why then should I believe it the next time the show told us something? For that matter we now even have the giant showing up in Storybrooke according to spoiler photos. Hey, why not? Apparently people can come and go from fairytale land really easy! It's not that they established in the first season that it is actually very hard, oh wait they did, with Rumpelstiltskin and the blue fairy. Rumpelstiltskin had the manipulate and destroy a lot of people to eventually cross over.
Season two so far has been riddled with these logic issues, the writers want certain things to happen and so they force the plot and the characters to make it happen instead of getting there organically. Which is really a shame because seasons one was pretty good. What doesn't help is the fact that they killed off the sheriff Graham to show this is a real life and death struggle, but no main or recurring character had died since. If you're so adamant about the 'real' stakes then show it, some pretty major fights and events have happened since that episode in season one but everyone makes it out alive. I'm not feeling the stakes anymore and Henry yelling "Good will always beat Evil!" isn't helping. Why should I worry if there is nothing at stake? The spoilers for tonight's episode hinted at a death, I'm curious to see if it sticks.
I really don't want to be this negative about a show I care about, but it just hurts to see these things happening and I can't understand why they make these choices. To every show there is a certain amount of logic, they established this in the first season and now the writing just seems to have gone off the rails. Please Once Upon A Time, get your act together.
Or maybe it's just what Rumpelstiltskin was saying:
"Magic is coming."
But he might have told us logic was going out the window.
Once Upon A Time - Season 2 - Get Your Act Together
6 Jan 2013
Once Upon A Time
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I don't take much stock in an article by a supposed 'writer' who has typos in a final piece.
ReplyDeletethis show is great so live it alone ok
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love and enjoy this show, I totally agree with everything said here. At times it's just becoming silly and repetitive. I know its about fairy tales etc, but I'm getting bored of hearing about true love and good always beats evil...
ReplyDeleteTruer words have never been wrote. OUAT is a great show that suffers from writers being unable to stand by the rules they wrote. While this allows them to make the show more interesting, it does also frustrate viewers who value continuity over blind enjoyment.
ReplyDeleteIt's
ReplyDeletenot that they established in the first season that it is actually very
hard, oh wait they did, with Rumpelstiltskin and the blue fairy.
Rumpelstiltskin had the manipulate and destroy al ot of people to
eventually cross over.
I trust the blue fairy as far as I can throw my house. The fairies are
the only ones who pretty well say that magic doesn't come with a price.
I really never bought the "this was the last bean" stuff in the first
place. I think the blue fairy is playing her own game, just like Rumple
and Regina. She's just hiding behind a nice face.
agree with most of the points that you've made, but the thing is that i don't take them really seriously...i just try to seat back and enjoy the show...
ReplyDeleteWe will always find each other! ;)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I really wish I could just sit back and ignore the illogical moves made by the plot and/or characters.
ReplyDeleteI'm not allowed to voice my opinion?
ReplyDeleteNearly every article posted online or in print has typos. Check your newspaper they are full of typos. Add to that, that English isn't my native language. Perhaps you could name said typos instead of mocking them? :)
ReplyDeleteThat's certainly a good point, but they then they should have showed them not to be trustworthy.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. :) Wish I could do that though.
ReplyDeleteI guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I read this twice and can't say I agree with any of it. I have no problem at all with the whole Cora/Emma thing or with the Giant showing up in Storybrooke. I'm sure he's been plotting his revenge against Hook for a while. And Emma is The Savior after all. She's no ordinary character just like Anakin and Luke Skywalker were no ordinary Jedi knights.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Rumple/Blue Fairy scene was the definitive explanation of how to travel between realms. Look at all the doors that Jefferson and Regina had available before they entered Wonderland. I'm sure there are other ways to travel between realms besides magic beans, hats, pirate ships, and ruby slippers. My guess is that Hook knew that they would be able to travel to Storybrooke in his pirate ship, but he's an opportunist and wanted to see first what he could get from Cora before he gave away his secret.
Also, if you're going to criticize other writers then please take the time to run the spell check and grammar check on your article.
Don't know what went wrong here.
ReplyDeleteI love the show so I can buy Cora and Hook coming to storybrook by bean i just hope we get to see more of Regina and Snow backstory because for me in order for Regina to be really redeem she has to have scenes with Snow because she blame Snow for Daniel death even though I think her anger is still misplaced and because that why she enact the curse in the first place and I don't know why people are sursprise that Emma has magic she after all product of true love I mean I was shock when Cora couldn't take her heart makes me wonder has Regina ever try to take Snow heart before and another thing maybe Cora couldn't take Emma heart because she sarfice herself for her mother and Emma realize that love can be a strength instead of weakness
ReplyDeleteI like true love, but I don't buy why Emma should be special because her parents have true love.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Blue Fairy was supposed to be lying. She gave the magic bean to Bae in the first place. She wanted Rumple to go to the land without magic, and she didn't want him to enact the dark curse. You could maybe say that you can't portal jump (ship or hat) to a land without magic, so once Rumple brought magic you can travel back and forth to Storybrooke easier, but that doesn't explain the tree portal and it doesn't explain black&white movie land for Frankenstein. I think portals between realms are plot holes that they keep magnifying. Like the water in the lake. When Charming desperately needed it, it was gone--made sense one time use only, but Cora can just make it reappear. The lake water is too powerful of a plot device to exist all the time so they just whip it out when needed. The writers are lazy and instead of keeping the story tight and coherent they expand it to the point they figure they always have a way out by rewriting what they already told us. I mean come on they had to create 2 sleeping beauties.
ReplyDeleteI understand, but frankly, it's nice to have one show that doesn't go out of its way to be "dark". I do like several dark shows, but Once Upon A Time is like dessert for me. There's an innocence there that's quite rare, along with some old-fashioned, fun fantasy. Maybe that defies logic at times, but I don't really care.
ReplyDeleteLilly on TV.com has gone through this with her recaps and she's come to a funny place with it. It helps me--for what it's worth.
ReplyDeleteIf I were to submit a well written and thought out article, would it actually be posted? I mean, I practically post small articles in the comments section all the time.
ReplyDeleteYou say that it defies logic that they showed up on the ship, but in actuality they were foreshadowing it all along. In one of the first episodes with Hook, he has one of the giant's magic beans, although it is dried up - hello magic water!! It even mentions that he used to beans in the past to travel to different worlds. So why are you shocked they ha and Cora used it to get to the real world? Perhaps you should spend less time analyzing the writing and more time noticing and remembering the little things that seem irrelevant but are later very relevant.
ReplyDeleteCora has access to spells and magic that Charming doesn't have. I don't have issues with Lake Nostos or how the characters travel between realms. I still find this to be one of the most creative shows on TV.
ReplyDeleteIn defense of the show
ReplyDelete- If I remember correctly, Emma kind of cheated in that swordfight by punching Hook's lights out when she got the chance rather than sticking to the use of her blade. Hook is a very by-the-book swashbuckler; Emma's willing to play dirty. Just my opinion, anyway.
- We don't know all the details of Emma's powers or specifically how she's special. There's a lot of magical technicalities there that haven't been explored yet. It's worth giving this storyline a chance before calling it illogical. And don't forget that she's special because she's Rumple's tool to find his son; not just as a convenient defense against Cora. Her unique abilities were hardly a deus ex machina, they've been hinted at repeatedly since the pilot. Emma will always be at the center of this whole conflict.
- Crossing between worlds was hard to begin with, but part of the increasing suspense in this show is that it's rapidly becoming easier, raising the threat level. That's the point. Also, keep in mind that it was always fairly easy to travel between worlds without magic, but very hard to get to Earth because it didn't. Now it does. Things have changed.
- Yes, Cora and Hook did "magically" appear on the ship at the end of the last episode - quite literally, in fact. ;) The only thing which bothers me about that is where they got the ship. The whole bean thing explains why they were able to get over in the first place, however. If anything, this raises the stakes; it doesn't lower them. I don't really see how Cora's been made any less dangerous. Maybe she can't steal Emma's heart, and perhaps Emma has some power she can use against her, but there are certainly other things she can do. Now that she knows what to expect, I imagine she'll quickly figure out a way to deal with Emma. Plus, she's going to try to manipulate Regina against Emma and probably bring Henry into it as well, which will definitely complicate Emma's ability to resist.
I'm not saying Season 2 has been perfect; but some of the apparent "logic problems" can't really be defined as such until we figure out where this story is going. Give it some time, people.
The problem is that within the fabric of the show they've made True Love incredibly common so Emma shouldn't be nearly as special as they're making her out to be.
ReplyDeleteHere you are insulting someone by telling them to remember "the little things" but you don't even have your 'little things' in order. Hook USED his magic bean in 2.04 to get to Neverland, that was part of the main plot. The bean WASN'T dried up, that's why Rumple wanted it. He got the dried up bean in 2.06 from the giant.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that they get there. It's that the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show is based on Rumplestiltskin having no option but to manipulate everyone's lives in order to set up a curse and get them there. Now within the span of a few days we're seeing multiple ways to get to Storybrooke that could have easily and fairly logically been used to avoid the entire show. THAT'S the problem.
Lake Nostros wasn't a one time use only thing. It's that Charming killed the keeper of the lake so it dried up without her.
ReplyDeleteI have similar opinions with Doctor Who when they tell us time can be rewritten and then when something bad happens, suddenly you can't rewrite time. It defies logic and I have a hard time excepting a bogus reason and the writer is always brilliant and clever. I kind of agree with you there. The rejuvenating properties of the water and the bean made sense to me, so I accepted it; it's fantasy and fairytale land, after all. I think it's too soon though. Like Lost, you kind of have to go with the flow of things and maybe questions will be answered and things will be payed off. It's all working towards a bigger story.
ReplyDeleteAs for the death tonight, I have a good hunch it'll stick. I kind of wish there were more deaths, even for bigger characters, but it's also a Disney show.
Wait, so minor grammar and spelling on a spoiler site used for discussion are more important than logic on an internationally viewed television show? Good to know.
ReplyDeleteBut for real, Emma is only plot-special. The actual canon of the show has her being quite common so far and that's one of their biggest issues.
Emma is the savior. It's the ultimative principle of the show that she is special. Like Buffy was the Slayer, the Halliwells were the Charmed Ones et cetera.
ReplyDeleteThey've talked about why Emma is special though. Because she's a child of TRue Love. Except that with true love being so common, the issue becomes why is she so special BEYOND that when all they've shown and hinted about has been because of Snow and Charming's love.
ReplyDeleteI actually find the show problematic because it IS one of the darkest shows on television but pretends that it's lighthearted fantasy.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's a contentious point. I think Rumplestiltskin doesn't just want to come to our world to find Baelfire but wants to have the opinion to bring magic in our world too. He doesn't want to lose his power like Balefire had planned. So he create the curse to bring all he needs to our world.
ReplyDeleteExactly this. It kind of makes no sense if Rumplestiltskin waited god knows how many years to be able to turn Regina into the Evil Queen just so that she could enact his dark curse, only to find out in fact there are 300 other ways to come to our world.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I meant about one-time use in the terms of plot. To get the water to save Frederick, Charming had to kill the siren. Once the siren was dead the lake dried up, ie, one-time use. Otherwise people would just go to the lake anytime something bad happened. It was too powerful of a plot device for the writers to leave lying around. But then Rumple uses it for bringing back magic (even though it should have been dried up according to the timeline) and Charming finds the last thimbleful--only enough for one plot device--and Cora makes it all come back to life...basically whenever the writers needed it. I
ReplyDeleteIMO Cora basically dug really far down (which shouldn't Charming have been able to do that?). If Cora could magically rejuvenate the magic rejuvenating lake, why did she need the lake water, why didn't she just rejuvenate the magic bean herself?
ReplyDeleteI agree. However, trying to see things on the bright side, I still have hope they're emphasizing this "good always beats evil" idea for so long just to throw it out of the window at some point. The writers have said the show will get darker, so I'm wondering if this could be part of that.
ReplyDeleteBesides, they REALLY have to explain how true love works. They can't keep using it however they like. But when it comes to Emma, I think there's something more to her than simply being the product of true love. But that's just me.
Yeah, but the problem is: is she special because she is true love's product or is she special for some other reason? And if she's only special because of her parents being the ones who provided true love for the curse to be created, then why on earth couldn't Cora take her heart? Makes no sense. Cora didn't enact the curse, she didn't even go to Storybrooke with the other characters. And they were in FTL, not in Storybrooke. I understand Emma is special, I just want to understand why and what powers this gives her.
ReplyDeleteCora didn't rejuvenate the lake exactly. I think she took the groundwater. By the way she didn't know that there is a fossilized bean. All people thought that there a no beans anymore but Emma and Hook learned that the giant had this last ineffective bean. Hook took the bean and gave it Cora first after Emma and Snow used the portal. But in a show with magic you could always ask why the evil guys don't just flip and the good guys fall over dead.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so worried about Rumple's use of the lake, because it was in another land - as they keep emphasizing, magic works different everywhere - but Cora's use of it is weird. She is powerful, sure, but she can't be powerful enough to bring a dead source of magic back, otherwise she'd be more powerful than Rumple.
ReplyDeleteWhy can only certain people pull hearts? What does pulling hearts actually entail? Why can Regina do pretty much whatever she wants but she couldn't defeat Snow? All the magic, all the curses in the show are clusterf*&^s. Emma is the heroine, Emma is the savior, she is special. The writers will make up what that means as they go along when it is convenient for them.
ReplyDeleteThere may not be that many ways to get from the Enchanted Forest to our world. My guess is that the portal via Lake Nostos was something that only Cora could create. If Rumple helped Regina get rid of Cora, I can't imagine that Cora would be too willing to help Rumple find a way to get to our world. Hook probably had to get the pirate ship out of Neverland to then sail to Storybrooke. Again, I doubt he would be someone who would help Rumple get to a land without magic. Rumple tried to get the red slippers, but they're gone too.
ReplyDeleteHave you forgotten about the fact that Emma's only existence is product of magic? Because Snow drank the Lake Nostos water, I thought that was clear enough indication why she's different than other True Love babies.
ReplyDeleteULTIMATE RESPONSE TIME! Lets do this!
ReplyDeleteThis article is missing a lot of information in order to justify it's reasoning, so I'm just going to go down it like a list and explain some things.
First off, the fight including Emma, Snow, Cora, and Hook. Why are people so confused about this? It's stunning. Did everyone else miss the fact that he showed great reluctance to fight Emma at all? Ignore his words because they didn't match his actions. He was a better fighter, but his heart wasn't exactly in it. Hook is looking for revenge, but Emma and Snow were not a part of that revenge. He was fighting them because it was necessary, not because he wanted to.
Meanwhile, Cora's magic isn't as powerful as it used to be. I thought that was shown in every scene she was in. If she still had all of her powers she wouldn't need Hook at all. I'm almost positive that this will be explained later in the season. As for Cora being unable to take Emma's heart, your entire opinion on that is based on lack of information. Information that hasn't been given yet but obviously will be later. Lets not jump the gun just yet and give the show a choice to explain exactly why it happened.
Now for the ship appearing in Storybrooke, we have NO IDEA how much time had passed for Cora and Hook. It's not like they just immediately got there. I have no doubt that a lot of time had passed in the fairytale land before they got to Storybrooke. I wonder if we'll find that out when a certain giant makes his next appearance. One would assume so.
Now, the next part actually hurts my head. How come so many people keep missing this very simple fact. Our world didn't have magic until AFTER the curse was created and then broken. However, the curse was powered by true love, the one kind of magic that existed in both our worlds. He was able to take advantage of Regina's love for a certain family member in order to power the curse.
Lets not forget that he was trying to find a way to use true love to do the very thing of crossing worlds already. When the curse was broken he was able to bring magic to Storybrooke, which made it A LOT easier for people to pass through. It doesn't require true love to pass through anymore because both worlds now have more than true love to power the spell.
Please everyone, think this stuff through first. You're forgetting certain details, and the utter lack of imagination is a little depressing.
I feel like people completely skipped the entire 3rd episode of this season... how it doesn't explain why Emma is different is beyond me. There was a reason why entire Snow infertility issue was shown, it wasn't just to throw something there.
ReplyDeleteIt may not be possible to dig far down into the lake without magic. There are probably some things that are beyond Cora's capability, like rejuvenating the magic bean and easily reuniting with Regina.
ReplyDeleteWhy was Buffy chosen and not another girl instead of her? Why were the
ReplyDeleteHalliwells the most powerful witches of all time and not other witches?
The idea of being special is not very logic. It's special.
I'm so confused by what you're saying here, it doesn't seem related to the article at all.
ReplyDeleteDidn't the water only heal her? Or is any child that Abigail and Frederick have also going to be super special because of the water?
ReplyDeleteActually, I think Regina not being able to defeat Snow is one of the few things that does make perfect sense. She never once tried to kill Snow the way she kills "regular" people. What does she usually do? Rips hearts out. Did she ever try that with Snow? No, not as far as we know. She sent the Huntsman to do it at first. Then she went for the apple, which was never intended to kill. And then the curse - again, no death intended. This says a lot about the character.
ReplyDeleteSo does that mean that everyone else who has ever used the water there also is super special with super special children?
ReplyDeleteAh, I see you. I thought you meant that it could only be used to save one person and that was it.
ReplyDeleteBut it was implied that that did happen, enough that there was a shrine and everything there.
1. "We have seen several 'true love' couples on this show." No, no we haven't. We've seen one, Snow & Charming. Rumpel looked for years to get the two of these and even had to help them along. There have been other loving couples along the way, but only one "True Love."
ReplyDelete2. "It's not that they established in the first season that it is actually very hard, oh wait they did, with Rumpelstiltskin and the blue fairy." Yes, but they still showed that there were several ways to cross over: the tree wardrobe, which Cora & Hook were going to use as the basis for another portal, the beans, but the giants destroyed them all long ago, and the curse, which Rumpel had to put several things painstakingly together to get just right.
3. "the witch Cora who has been shown to be immensely powerful was tossing around silly fireballs. Then to make matters worse, the pirate captain Hook lost a sword fight to someone who has barely ever held a sword." Well, you got me there. I agree with you.
Rumple did say that Emma was already special and her powers were there before the curse he just use what she already was. So the fact that Cora couldn't take her heart out have nothing to do with the curse, it's about what Emma is :) There's not bad writing here (maybe yet :p) we just need to learn more!
ReplyDeleteBut she was willing to kill lots of people and curse an entire world, so the character is willing, but somehow not willing to take that step against the person she was actually angry with? Innocent children--send them to their deaths, Snow, I'll let her go? Not logical to me.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand where you're confused. He spoke about Hook falling so easily to Emma, I gave a reason, he spoke about Cora being powerful but throwing weak spells, I gave a reason for that too. He spoke about how people are suddenly able to pass between worlds, I gave a reason for it.
ReplyDeleteI think you actually need to read both of them again.
No one had ever done it. It had been attempted (hence shrine people willing to risk death to try). But Charming was the only one to defeat her.
ReplyDelete" We have seen several 'true love' couples on this show, according to the show it happens more often then we think." I agree with you but I just think Snow/Charming is THE True Love couple
ReplyDeleteAnd for the cross over part the rules from season one doens't apply because now there is magic in Storybrook so it change everything.
I agree the way I rationalized what Cora did was that she just dug down and found water. But for me that was a problem, because Charming could have done the same and saved his mom. The writers brought the lake back because they needed to at that time, earlier when they needed Charming's mom to sacrifice for Snow, there was only a thimbleful. But that's just how I see it. Marie987 believes that Cora somehow used magic to recreate the lake.
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't have any kind of connection to the hundreds of innocent children she cursed, just with Snow. The thing is: she destroys everyone AROUND Snow, but never Snow herself. I'm not saying this makes Regina a good person, but I think it shows she has more unresolved feelings for the girl than she lets on.
ReplyDeleteIt might have taken time, but we can dig pretty far.
ReplyDeleteOh yes, I totally agree. I don't think they screwed this up, I just think it's something they'll have to dig deeper into.
ReplyDeleteI think Regina never really wanted to kill Snow despite everything she tried to do to Snow. For the Queen death was to easy she wanted Snow to suffer
ReplyDeleteNo Emma didn't just suddenly become special, she's always been special. But there was more behind the reason that Cora couldn't remove her heart than her just being special. Emma was acting out of love for Snow when she shoved her out of the way. I think that is what prevented Cora from taking her heart. They haven't had anyone else try to intervene when a heart was removed. So who knows, maybe if Regina had shoved Daniel out of the way she wouldn't have her heart removed but we don't know.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem either with the portal situation. Everyone believed that all of the magic beans were gone. When that last one became damaged it was no longer usable and probably also no longer detectable by anyone with magic.Even the Blue Fairy believed that all of the magic beans were gone and that she gave the last one to Baelfire.
Emma was able to "defeat" Hook because she took him by surprise with when she held up the compass and got a lucky punch in. And how else was Cora supposed to attack them? They showed her using fire in Lady of the Lake and we haven't seen everything she's capable of. I'm waiting to see how her magical fight went with Rumple.
As for the giant showing up in Storybrooke, do you really think that Cora and Hook were the only ones on the ship even if they were the only ones on deck? We don't know who they may be holding prisoner on board the ship if anyone at all. Cora might have shrunk him down if he came to investigate the magic beans (maybe giants can sense or smell them, I don't know because they haven't said) that Cora and Hook were growing.
I agree with you he wanted to come to our world AND bring magic into it with the beans or the wardrobe it wasn't possible....
ReplyDeleteActually Cora's magic not being what it used to be has already been explained. They've been indicating that magic was beginning to disappear from the Enchanted Forest (possibly because Rumple was gathering so much of it up to create the curse).
ReplyDeleteI disagree Pascal. IMO shows like this (like Lost), the story relies on the idea that no one ever really knows what the whole truth is.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is kind of true to life in the sense that just because one person believes something to be the truth of how something works, doesn't mean it is, because 1. We don't know where or why, or for what reason that person believes or is telling you this information.
(Both Lost, Once, Alias, and Fringe) 2.operate on notions where there are people who are all working towards their individualized goals and depending on what those are and what kind of control they can gain, do some of those characters manipulate and thwart the goals of others.
It becomes very complicated, because everyone is relying on what others have told them or their experiences, which are possibly very "circumstantial" situations.
This way the show is unpredictable and the mythology doesn't get boxed in too soon. The idea is also so we can see that every single character is "in the same boat".
Now I would agree that the point or theme of season 2 hasn't been fully realized yet, because they have been busy setting us up with characters and information we my need in order to see that realization. I won't judge the chaos of the season yet. The only things I see for sure is that Regina's redemption arc is front and center and that the other characters may continue to grapple with the truth of having 2 identities in relations to where do we go from here? -But we are approaching mid season, another arc should start presenting itself in relation to things established earlier in the season.
300? I've only seen 3 (and I don't really count Jefferson's hat as we have yet to see someone use it to get to our world, just back to the enchanted forest).
ReplyDeleteI personally don't know why anyone would watch a 'Fantasy' show and expect reason and logic to stand over great story and character development. I have been scared to say this but whatever... The only thing that has made me the slightest bit negative about this show, is reading some of the comments on these forums. Perhaps because I hate debates and I am not confrontational but it drives me crazy. It's a TV show, a fantasy tv show. One with amazing acting and all the elements you could want. I am not a huge tv buff but to sit down and watch a show that can take you away from all the stresses and normalcy of day to day life without ripping it apart to make it fit just perfectly into our little mold of pleasing our own selfish 'correctness' is so blah! Maybe that made no sense but I needed to rant. The 'Evil Regals' on here make me cringe. How they always conveniently forget all the help Regina has had and all the chances she has been given and all the horrendous things she has done so they can make her into this poor hard done by person. She made her choices people! Yes I think everyone deserves to be redeemed at some point but seriously children, get over yourselves. Whining about Regina not getting invited since she saved them. Emma saved her too and then she tried to poison her! Then Emma saved her again and the first thing she does is go to kill her dad.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, there is no reasoning with unreasonable people. So i am not going to argue with anyone on the forum ever again and just try to enjoy the spoilers (which I very much love and appreciate) and try not to let the negative nancies ruin my love for this show.
@ Pascal You're article definitely has truth to it. So don't get me wrong there but this is an amazingly fun show and full of so much great talent (Double that for Carlyle and Parilla) so my sincerest suggestion is to let your mind be free. Television is an outlet for imagination. It's a time to let go of the ordinary and sink into something different for an hour. Not going to lie. I catch myself starting to pick at things, especially when I watch an episode over again but it so ruins it. Most of the time I tell myself so shut up and just watch and have fun. I don't know about you but I work way too much and live to busy a life to ruin the fun this show brings. :)
Sorry again for the rant. Never again... promise!
Cora couldn't take Emma's heart, not just because she is special but because Emma's actions were out of her love for Snow. Even Cora said that Emma was acting out of love "Oh foolish girl. Don't you know, love is weakness."
ReplyDeleteIt was never said that Abigail and Frederick have True Love. Or Cinderella and her prince. Or Aurora and Phillip. That doesn't mean that they're not in in love but True Love is something else. Rumple needed so much time to find True Love so it's must be rare.
ReplyDeleteThanks, I thought I might have missed something.
ReplyDeleteCora used magic to reach the groundwater. She broke of the ground. Charming hadn't the power to do this and not the time to dig.
ReplyDeleteThat's a fairly good point.
ReplyDeleteAurora was awakened by Phillip with True Love's kiss in the first episode.
ReplyDelete"I personally don't know why anyone would watch a 'Fantasy' show and
ReplyDeleteexpect reason and logic to stand over great story and character
development."
Because it doesn't matter if it fantasy or not. If TV show creates new world, that world must have his rules and stick with them, don't change them wherever it likes. For me if TV show don't follow this own rules and changes them depending on the situation, that means that creators of tv show thinks that their viewers are idiots who do not think.
Not necessarily. Fredrick was trapped in gold, which is different than Snow's ability to have children being taken away by the curse that King George gave her. The waters of lake Nostos removed the gold. Snow's ability to have children was restored by the water. Also, Charming also drank from the chalice that the last drop of water from lake Nostos was in, plus he swam in the stuff when the Siren tried to drown him. Abigail didn't have contact with the water at all.
ReplyDeleteOkay, that's right.
ReplyDeleteThe show actually gave us more
ReplyDeletethan one way to get Emma and Snow out of fairytale land – thus why the dwarves were
mining for pixie dust. So my belief is there are no absolutes – especially in a
world that is connected to many other realms, worlds and lands. I remind you
that the bean that Smee/Hook used to go to Neverland – came from another land –
Smee said people come into port with things they don’t always understand.
Besides the many lands there are also different types of magic; the Blue Fairy
said she wouldn’t be able to perform her magic without dust and a wand, Rumple
and Regina didn’t need fairy dust to get there power back, right? As for Emma
and Snow, and Cora and Hook, the water from Lake Nostos – brought back the full
power of the ashes from the wardrobe, and revived the bean Hook took from the
Giant. Also, remember that bean was petrified… so in all reality it wasn’t a
viable option for creating a portal until it was revived by the waters of Lake
Nostos.
As for Emma – she is special
because she is the product of true love – no other “True Love” couples have yet
to have children (that we have seen) – so we don’t know what other power could
come from it, besides that – Rumple knew of Emma before the curse, while he
might not have been the factor behind her “Cora repelling” magic – he did help orchestrate
most of the events up to that point…
The picture of Jorge Garcia
and the mysterious hole in Storybrooke have no context at this point, we have
no idea the story behind that – so for now we don’t know if people can come and
go to/from FTL, so that is a moot point.
But that all aside – the fact
is – if you start to think too much and over analyze the show you take the fun
out of it! It has a cheese factor, but that’s what we love, right? The twist
and turns and the, “what’s next?” factor is what brings us all back for the
next episode! The element of surprise, the “coulda, shoulda, woulda” is what
makes it fun and shouldn’t be used to bring it down! Just enjoy it J
I love this show!! I don't think Cora and Regina "stealing hearts" prompts true love, which is what Snow and Charming have and what Emma is a product of. That's why Rumpel took bits of their hair, to make a "true love potion." Ripping someone's heart out of their chest is not going to make them fall in love with you, and that was evidenced with Graham, Regina took his heart and he said he couldn't feel anything, so how on earth is that meant to prompt true love?! Emma is the Saviour, which I have always though made her special, so I'm not surprised she had a bit of extra magic herself.. And if you were watching hard enough, only when Emma touched Regina's arm did Jefferson's hat work and Regina noticed! So, I think you just have to have faith in the show if you're a fan!! It looks to me like they were heading toward Emma having her own power for awhile!!!
ReplyDelete300 is obviously an exaggeration, but we have:
ReplyDeletea) magic bean
b) wardrobe
c) wardrobe's ashes + compass
d) whatever way the Giant uses in future episodes
So that makes four. Considering all the trouble Rumple went through trying to get to our land, I'd think there'd be one way and one way only.
What intrigues me the most is not even the number, it's the mere fact Rumple could have used at least two of these things without ever needing Regina. So... why didn't he do it?
The writing has always been the shows biggest problem, and not just for the storylines. The writing for the heroes is just awful.
ReplyDeleteSnow, Emma, and Charming are 'super- special-awesome' and the show never lets us forget it. Even when the characters come across as douches or do something morally questionable, they are never called out on it and the narrative continues acting like they are can do no wrong because they are "good."
There's a reason more people care about Rumplestiltskin, Regina, Cora, and Hook than about Snow, Emma, and Charming. They actually get called on their shit, by the characters and the narrative.
Yup, this is it exactly.
ReplyDeleteYes, it would certainly seem that way. There is more to Emma that meets the eye. But they haven't given us any other explanation other than ''she's the product of true love''. And that's all nice and dandy, but there is more true love introduced to us than just Charming and Snow, so surely there must have been more children born out of true love?
ReplyDeleteThanks for showing me that! That made my day! :)
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about it! You were not ranting at all! I just seem to be unable to shut my mind off during television shows and I had been bothered by logic holes since the start of season two. The fight and the final scene were just the final straw. It's been gnawing at me over the hiatus so I just wanted to put my thoughts on 'paper' and see if there were people that felt the same way. :)
ReplyDeleteBut it's just the fact that other fantasy shows do follow the logic those shows established. Take Game of Thrones or Buffy for example, better yet Once itself did this in it's first season! With season two halfway over, this established logic has seemingly gone out the window and that's disappointing to see.
I still do enjoy the show and who knows this is part of a bigger narrative theme they are establishing.
Perfectly said!
ReplyDeleteBecause the writers didn't know that back then. ;)
ReplyDeleteI think that is the game these guys play (on Lost especially and Alias to a certain extent). They are always expanding the universe and adding new threads and allusions and mysteries with the promise that all the missing links will tie together. But for me--unlike you--I have very little faith that it will make sense or ever become "fully realized." There are still holes from season 1 that they only compounded. I do marvel at your faith in Bad Robot, it is impressive and the amount of work you go to make sense of it is commendable.
ReplyDeleteNot just the ones she cursed, how about the ones she sent into the witch's house before Hansel and Gretel. She went out of her way to get those kids and liked them enough to try and keep them. I do agree that she wanted to make Snow pay, but why never destroy Charming? She had him in her dungeon, but didn't kill him. That makes very little sense to me because that would have had a direct eye-for-an-eye sort of justice.
ReplyDeleteI just knew you would disagree Laura! ;)
ReplyDeleteAnd I could be wrong of course, I would be the first to admit that. You make some excellent points, but I don't get the same feeling there is an underlying theme here as was the case with Lost, Alias or Fringe. On those shows I could put my finger exactly on it if there was more to something than meets the eye.
On this show, however, it just feels very hap-hazardous. Especially in terms of writing, characters sometimes just behave dumb because the story demands it of them. You mention the mythology not getting boxed in, but that just sounds as an excuse to do something unbelievable and blame it on 'magic'. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't mesh with the logic they set up in season one. :)
I hope you are right though, really I do, because I really (want to) like the show. But even the best companies (Bad Robot, who I adore) occasionally make missteps. I fear this shows is one of them.
Edit: got partially ninja'ed by @isbloom
Here,here!
ReplyDeleteSo, just to clarify, what makes them 'THE' true love couple? What makes them different from the others?
ReplyDeleteWell I agree with you on this, the show is super in love with Snow, Emma and Charming. So much, that at some points I just want to change the channel. Some more diversity in who gets screen time would be welcome.
ReplyDeleteI agree that she used magic and not a shovel, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been accomplished with a shovel--or a dwarf's axe that can cut diamonds. He had all the time he needed. He could have saved his mom and spent the next week digging a well to save Snow (and anybody that might need it moving forward). It was a silly impediment and a ridiculous plot device.
ReplyDeleteBut doesn't it stand to reason other true love couples would have children as well?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on Jorge Garcia, we don't know what is happening there. But it showed him as the giant in his garb and Charming in his modern clothes. I just wanted to use it as an example of yet another person crossing over.
I enjoy the show, don't get me wrong. But the show isn't making it easy for me with all leaps in logic they have taken because it was demanded by the story they wanted to tell.
sorry!
ReplyDeleteHaha, no need to apologize! Besides who doesn't want to be a ninja? ;)
ReplyDeleteShare us your thoughts? ;)
ReplyDeleteThis is ridiculous. First of all, the blue fairy said that beans were extinct. Then when Rumple had a chance at getting another bean, he threw it away for revenge by killing his wife. Hook then used the last bean to go to Neverland. As for how they got to storybrooke, Hook used the decayed bean from the Giant, and threw it into Lake Nostos, which was already established as having regenerative properties. To say that they just decided to have Hook and Cora show up because people like it shows how little you know about making television. By the time the first episode of season two aired, they were probably writing Queen of Hearts.
ReplyDeleteAnd to say that Emma's magic came out of nowhere? Watch the second episode of this season again. Where she places her hand on Regina and the hat starts to work. She's the savior. Meaning she's special. Which is kind of the point of the show.
I'm not really sure why you think it was so easy to get to storybrooke. Everything makes sense and was set up using exisiting logic.
I'm in the middle of cooking! Talk in awhile,tho boy i don't know if i have the energy to withstand the whip lash,ha!!!! ;)
ReplyDeleteWell, I would attribute it to the fact that Rumple incorporated her "DNA" into an extremely powerful curse, thereby adding a more magical element to the true love behind her existence. The magic started with Rumple, not Emma. My theory is that without her involvement in the curse, she wouldn't have been any more "magical" than any other child born from parents who truly loved each other.
ReplyDeleteIn retrospect, I suppose I should admit that there have been particularly dark moments in the series. However, the show hits so many high notes that it avoids becoming actually bleak.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if [redacted] dies tonight, I may be proven wrong...
Perhaps since my job is dealing with people all day, problem solving and thinking, my TV time is brain off time :) At least I want it to be.
ReplyDeleteFirst off you claim to be a writer and yet your writing is terribly confusing. Second I find there to be so much wrong with this that I may take some time to write a small rebuttal to your side of the story (no pun intended). I would also like to stress that there are many outside factors that dictate how the story goes including actors being available and what the fans want to see. I respect your opinion, but for someone who claims to "really enjoy this show!" you don't seem to be displaying that in your "article" above. Personally I think the show's writing is wonderful and you appear to be incorrect on a few matters and not paying enough attention to how certain people made there way to Storybrooke.
ReplyDeleteOther "true love" couples can and probably have had children - but theirs are not the story we are watching :) and because of the circumstances we just happen to see (or are starting to see) all the potential Emma really has, besides she was born of a realm with magic.
ReplyDeleteI can't get hide from the Jorge pictures... not to mention the "regular" size... I am VERY interested to see where that goes... it is a stretch of the imagination to say the least! But that is why enjoy - and that is why we come back for more!
and trust - I hate stories, TV and movies that have stories that seem forced... maybe I am watching through rose colored glasses - but I don't see that in OUAT... not yet anyway :)
You said everything I wanted to. I wish people would really pay attention to what they are critiquing but alas they don't. I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling this way.
ReplyDeleteOh thank you SO much for sharing this! I love this!!
ReplyDeleteWe've seen parental abuse multiple times in the stories of Regina, Ella, Jiminy, Rumple and Belle; multiple cases of rape; Rumple manipulating people in order to destroy a wold (including destroying the psyche of teenage girls and a few instances of buying women and children); slavery; torture; dismemberment; teenage girls unknowingly killing and eating their boyfriends and neighbours; and murder. And that's in canon before you get into real world implications of the show in sexism and racism.
ReplyDeleteBut those reasons don't make sense because true love was never needed to pass between worlds. ANd your logic about Hook beating Emma doesn't make any sense because he's waited hundreds of years to get to Rumple so if Emma was all that was standing in the way 'his heart isn't in it' doesn't make sense. ESPECIALLY since we've seen him be willing to kill Belle simply because she couldn't help him.
ReplyDeleteUHHHHHHHH. Then how did Philip break the sleeping curse?
ReplyDeleteSo then what about every person that also drank the water if it was well known enough to 'return what was lost'? The problem with that is that now everyone can be just as special as Emma because the water is in Storybrooke. SO everyone line up, take a drink at the well and now they're permanently changed.
ReplyDeleteI've never understood that either. We;ve actually seen her save Charming's life but wouldn't it have made more sense to have just let him die? Then they're literally even in terms of being minus one true love.
ReplyDeleteThat would make sense if they weren't trying to explain it within the logic of the show by using True Love as an explanation.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't add a cruse into her DNA at all. The magic that was dropped onto the curse was from the hair of Snow and Charming and thus the curse is susceptible to Emma because she's made Snow and Charming.
ReplyDeleteHahaha! Isbloom is good at that :D
ReplyDeleteI think in way, you are right. I mean first it's premise is kind of like Lost and Fringe personified, because we have so many cast members and because we know we are dealing with multiple universe upfront, but even in a more epic way than Fringe does, since the realities harbor different quantum mechanics on top of all the aesthetic differences.
Then there's the fact that our creators wrote most of the Hugo episodes, and his episodes tend to be more ridiculously wacky and extremely uncanny. (And I don't know if you have ever seen "Felicity" or if you would even really like Felicity, but the character Megan, is an unthoughtful Gothic Wiccan (imagine putting Sawyer and Regina together) and her "magic" drives the very light mythology of the series...but I get the feeling a lot of that came from them too!
Also I just happen to be re-watching Lost, and season 2 of Once kind of reminds me of Lost's season 4. I think season 4 might be the weakest season, but I feel like it really sets up the last two seasons really well.
But I see so much potential with what is here...we know have a ship that might be able to take the characters to other realities, we might be getting closer to a spiritual aspect by both exploring "life extension", but also seeing a type of ethereal or pocket universe with 'the sleeping curse' (because a sleeping curse may be like a false death). We have a probability that there might be characters in the outside world in TLWM who may be from other realities and doing "work" for both characters we know and characters we don't know. We know there should be a plot with Gold setting out to find Bae (and we don't really know if the reason is really "good")
I'm not saying that there isn't a ton of stuff that seems scattered, but I think this way the writers have options to get to where ever they want to go with less hitches. Surely there are characters that I would like more from, but I want to give it the benefit of the doubt and take the time to let those stories unfold and hope that it will be satisfying.
That creates another huge problem because TONS of actions on the show are out of love yet still have negative consequences so I can't buy that yet without proof.
ReplyDeleteUgh. THIS.
ReplyDelete1. Wrong.
ReplyDeletePhillip and Aurora broke the exact same sleeping curse as Snow White and Prince Charming. Belle kissing Rumple started to break his curse as well. So that's three already within a very short period of time within the show canon. Plus Henry and Emma, showing that it doesn't need to be romantic.
2. EXACTLY. It's just convenient that we have a character carefully manipulating things for hundreds of years to get all the situations right and then have Cora/Hook, Snow/Emma and the giant make their way to Storybrooke within a few weeks of each other. It puts the Blue Fairy into serious question because at the very moment she said there were no more magic beans, there actually were more plus trees capable of transporting him.
...this article doesn't suggest that stealing hearts prompts true love.
ReplyDeleteWas it? I mean, I thought that Charming took an awful long time when you could just have taken a scoop and vamoosed.
ReplyDeleteWell, Thanks, I think (;
ReplyDeleteIt's not that I don't agree that there are surely things in the shows that get unanswered, and things the characters do that is easy to shake your head at, occasional plot lines that get sidelined by others, but I think more than anything we are suppose to value the experiences of the characters in the situations they face, more than what the truth of the matter is. We're suppose to care about who they are and who they want to be, and if they can be better, or get to a better place.
and you're right, fully realized is probably not the best choice of words, but perhaps the ability to realize in relation to a theme or themes.
I think writing any kind of serialized show on Network TV is rough, because I think they come up against a lot of limitations.
Because "True Love" is strongest magic and Rumple took advantage of it by making Emma a special variable, because he himself is a special variable, since he has prophetic abilities, keen instincts and is a good business man. He manipulated Regina so he could get his way and go to The Land Without Magic, have the curse be broken, so then he could bring magic to it, so he could go and find Bae (<---but most likely, this isn't the whole truth and/or his reason for finding Bae may not be remorse...)
ReplyDelete^This!
ReplyDeleteBecause Regina is "struggling" with power and her identity. She can't decide who she wants to be...
ReplyDeleteWell said!
ReplyDeleteHahaha! Isbloom is good at that :D
ReplyDeleteI think in way, you are right. I mean first it's premise is kind of like Lost and Fringe personified, because we have so many cast members and because we know we are dealing with multiple universe upfront, but even in a more epic way than Fringe does, since the realities harbor different quantum mechanics on top of all the aesthetic differences.
Then there's the fact that our creators wrote most of the Hugo episodes, and his episodes tend to be more ridiculously wacky and extremely uncanny. (And I don't know if you have ever seen "Felicity" or if you would even really like Felicity, but the character Megan, is an unthoughtful Gothic Wiccan (imagine putting Sawyer and Regina together) and her "magic" drives the very light mythology of the series...but I get the feeling a lot of that came from them too!
Also I just happen to be re-watching Lost, and season 2 of Once kind of reminds me of Lost's season 4. I think season 4 might be the weakest season, but I feel like it really sets up the last two seasons really well.
But I see so much potential with what is here...we know have a ship that might be able to take the characters to other realities, we might be getting closer to a spiritual aspect by both exploring "life extension", but also seeing a type of ethereal or pocket universe with 'the sleeping curse' (because a sleeping curse may be like a false death). We have a probability that there might be characters in the outside world in TLWM who may be from other realities and doing "work" for both characters we know and characters we don't know. We know there should be a plot with Gold setting out to find Bae (and we don't really know if the reason is really "good")
I'm not saying that there isn't a ton of stuff that seems scattered, but I think this way the writers have options to get to where ever they want to go with less hitches. Surely there are characters that I would like more from, but I want to give it the benefit of the doubt and take the time to let those stories unfold and hope that it will be satisfying.
I'm sorry too! Somehow I posted twice! Please ignore the second repeated one.
ReplyDelete1. No, they had "True Love's Kiss". A momentary expression that allows them to express this. If Belle and Rumpel had "True Love" they wouldn't have IMMEDIATELY imploded. Only Snow & Charming have "True Love".
ReplyDelete2. There were no more beans. The ones that pop up later are left-overs and the one Hook & Cora use was petrified until restored by the pond. The tree that wardrobe was made from might not even have been planted by then. And to what the wardrobe's magic does before retasked by the Blue Fairy is unknow.
No, I meant that he incorporated her DNA into a curse, not that he put a curse into her DNA. The "magic" that was already there was altered and possibly made more powerful by its involvement in the curse.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I forgot the boyfriend-getting-eaten part. That was about the darkest moment of Season 1.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting idea but Emma HERSELF is completely separate from the curse in that she escaped it.
ReplyDeleteThose statements don't made sense. If you can have true love's kiss then you have true love. That's the meaning of it.
ReplyDeleteI think you have the idea of Emma all wrong. Emma was born Magical. She was from a union of True Love. So the journey of Emma was she is only magical when ever she believes. That is why August was so desperate for her to believe. It was her magic which allow Jefferson's hat to open in the first place. She did it twice. It was her magic which brought Henry back from the sleeping death. So once she was confronted by Cora her magic was at full strength. And only by believing in herself was Cora defeated. So what logic has been thrown out?
ReplyDeleteBoh that I don't know :D
ReplyDelete...
ReplyDeleteHahaha, ok, if you don't want to share that's fine too. ;)
ReplyDeleteBesides I'll be nice, honest! :P
I mean the writting is making them a special true love couple but we don't in what ways yet..... maybe they'll explain it someday maybe they won't....It was just a thought I'm just as confused as you :)
ReplyDeleteSorry that wasn't my nicest reply. But yeah I do hope it gets explained in the future though, at this point we have nothing to go on other than 'true love'. Which is all nice and dandy, but in my opinion isn't really an explanatio since there has been more true love couples. Aurora and Philip for example.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. For Emma it is literally a coming of age story in knowing her own strength.
ReplyDeleteBecause this is coming from Bad Robot writers, True Love = Fate (Destiny). It's the idea that everything is interrelated (even when one uses magic, that is way the curse repeats some of the previous events). I would also say that although Charming and Snow's love is highlighted, so is Emma's and Henry's, because True Love isn't exclusive to romantic couples, but other kinds of family dynamics.
ReplyDeleteThat's one way of looking at it - I'd describe it more as her being in control of it than having escaped it.
ReplyDeleteThat is actually a very good point! :)
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't help that there was no explanation of how you sail a ship up a beanstalk (or down one?) Not to mention that suddenly the bean can take you anywhere and not just to the Giant's realm. I can handle that maybe Hook didn't know the bean would ever work until he saw the "lake with regenerative powers". You're right about the sword fight and defeating Cora so easily...although wanting Regina to have to face her mother again got me over the lameness of how everybody is getting to Storybook these days. And I'll admit that the spoiler preview with Rumpel stepping across the city line opens all kinds of new avenues that could be interesting. So I'll stick around...for now.
ReplyDeleteWhat I really don't care about is Mulan and Aurora and I don't care if we ever see them again. It may be a large cast and I didn't mind in season 1 that they took episodes to tell us the back stories of some of the supporting characters, because Henry was still trying to convince Emma that it was real and we were learning about how the curse came about. They need to stick with Snow/Prince Charming/Regina/Henry/Emma being the core of the show. I lose interest the moment one of them isn't in a scene or it doesn't at least affect their storyline in some way. These are the characters that I'm invested in and I don't really care about the others - not even Rumpelstiltskin - except when they are interacting or interfering with one of them.
As much as I loved the first season, as soon as they strayed from the 'traditional' fairy tales into Disney characters, it began to lose some of the appeal for me. I don't have a problem believing that Snow White and Red Riding Hood were friends - I can imagine them in the same "once upon a time" land...but what the heck is Mulan doing there? And bringing in Wonderland and "other realms" just muddies the water from what was initially more believable for me.
On another note, why does Emma suddenly have custody of Henry just because the curse was broken? Now they don't have to live by 'earthly' laws anymore? And David just took over as Sheriff while Emma was gone...and why were Emma and Henry eating french fries (presumably at breakfast time) before she sent him off to school in the last episode? Or am I getting too detail oriented?! lol
Regina has said that she wanted Snow to suffer. In death, that person is gone and you know you can't have them. But separation is torture - you could be with that person but something outside your control is keeping you apart. The thing is, enacting the curse meant that nobody knew they were separated from their true loves because they didn't remember who they were. And there's no indication that Regina was 'torturing' Mary Margaret in any way in Storybrooke. That's where the logic breaks down for me.
ReplyDeleteI also think that despite everything Regina really didn't want to become her mother. Cora killed Daniel - killing Charming would equate them. She would rather meddle and keep them apart than do exactly what her mother did to her.
"But there was more behind the reason that Cora couldn't remove her heart than her just being special. Emma was acting out of love for Snow when she shoved her out of the way. "
ReplyDeleteExactly! That's why Harry Potter lived when Lily sacrificed herself when Voldemort attacked...I don't remember people questioning her act of 'true love' for her son. It's certainly not a new idea in storytelling. I also think that Emma is unique because she was transported before the curse and therefore not affected by it. Which also leaves some interesting possibilities for August, should we see him again.