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POLL : What did you think of Once Upon a Time - Lady of the Lake?

15 Oct 2012

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104 comments:

  1. ALLA15 October 2012 at 01:59

    Mom and daughter¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
    Dying

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  2. laura334115 October 2012 at 01:59

    I loved everything about this episode,and i fell in love with Lancelot!

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  3. Orla15 October 2012 at 02:00

    I loved it so much! It was perfect!

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  4. klutzy_girl15 October 2012 at 02:01

    I loved it so much! I figured James' mother swapped out the water so Snow could conceive. And Grandpa!Charming with Henry was adorable as was Mama!Snow and Emma.

    And uh oh at George and Cora. That's not going to end well.

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  5. Lisa Jones15 October 2012 at 02:03

    Absolutely loved it, heartbreaking.

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  6. hogwartstilskin15 October 2012 at 02:07

    03.00 Am in spain, i must get up in 4 hours...but It was all worth it

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  7. Pascal21915 October 2012 at 02:10

    That was amazing! This season is really starting off great! Also including the legend of Arthur was a great move! :)

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  8. Pascal21915 October 2012 at 02:11

    Hahaha it's 3 am over here as well!

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  9. ALLA15 October 2012 at 02:13

    charming family¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

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  10. C P15 October 2012 at 02:18

    Such a great episode! :D This season is amazing!

    Not surprised Charming's mother didn't drink the water.


    Sad that Lancelot was killed by Cora. I liked him. :(


    Loved Charming teaching Henry to sword fight, and Snow and Emma's talk at the castle. Glad Emma is understanding the sacrifice Snow and Charming made.


    I'm so happy Henry convinced Jefferson to see his daughter. It was a very sweet reunion. :)

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  11. Elena Wonderland15 October 2012 at 02:19

    4 am in Greece!!!And YES It was worth it :D:D Why sleep when I can watch a dream on my Screen?? ;))

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  12. Lissie_Bee15 October 2012 at 02:24

    All kinds of stuff going on tonight... I've got to say, I really liked Lancelot. I died a little inside when we learned that Cora had killed him years ago. Still, I look forward to seeing him in flashbacks. And I had serious tears in my eyes when Emma and Snow shared their moment Emma's old nursery. Emma finally understands why her mom gave her up all those years ago, and that it wasn't because she didn't love or want her.

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  13. Courts15 October 2012 at 02:25

    Snow is seriously the Jessica Fletcher of fairytale land. She always seems to somehow be accidentally the cause of someone's death.

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  14. Totallyaddicted00515 October 2012 at 02:34

    Snow is Freakin Awesome!! and she looked fabulous in this episode as well. I still kinda think that Emma's a little too close to MM/Snows age to make this older daughter thing work but..maybe it'll are on me.

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  15. Chalice9315 October 2012 at 02:44

    Too much fairly tale land, not enough storybrook. I really hope Emma and Snow find their way home soon.

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  16. Abelardo Nopinjama Hernandez15 October 2012 at 02:48

    me encanto el capitulo, cora bruja maldita sabia que se traía algo entre manos, era obvio que iba a buscar a su hija una vez que supiera de ella, pobre lancelot, cada dia me gusta mas esta serie no me la pierdo por nada del mundo y cada domingo estoy pendiente para ver a que horas la ponen en descarga directa,

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  17. C P15 October 2012 at 02:59

    For me, I'm always up for more fairytale land. I love storybrooke now that everyone remembers, but fairytale land is really great as well. I like them about equal now.

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  18. Jill McLaren15 October 2012 at 03:09

    So sad about Charming's Mom, and so adorable about Emma and Snow bonding. <3

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  19. Abhiroop Saluja15 October 2012 at 03:13

    No Rumple
    No Belle :(
    Bt loved all the mother scenes both emma's and charmings

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  20. Danielle Yvette Thomas15 October 2012 at 03:24

    It was such a touching episode. But I am interested in seeing if they get Regina's mom into Storybrooke, if so that will be trouble for everyone!!!

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  21. kyle fong15 October 2012 at 03:28

    A fantastic episode tonight and for once I found the flashbacks to actually be VERY interesting and weaved seamlessly with the plot!

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  22. Daniel Alvarez15 October 2012 at 04:05

    it was an awsome episode! i loved everything about it!
    hated that Regina was only in one scene though :( i missed her
    Things with Cora should get interesting, i'm really looking forward to see how it developes into the story.
    it was about time we saw Charming's father alter ego in storybrooke!

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  23. SmallvilleSupernaturalCastle15 October 2012 at 04:13

    Great episode, loved the visual effects of the ogre, Cora was great i didnt think she was lancelot lol she is evil! Good storybrooke story with Charming, Jefferson and Henry but the only thing i hated is there was no Robert Carlyle/Gold/Rumplestiltskin! He is my favorite of the show and its hard watching it without at least a scene of him. Also i guess belle and ruby arent that important considering they havent really been in much. Regina at least had a scene.I liked Snow and Emma alot they were great. Im just happy tho Rumple is big in the next episode!

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  24. Audrey15 October 2012 at 04:16

    I cried like a baby with Snow and Emma opening up to each other as mother and daughter. Also because of the sacrifice Charming's mom made for Snow to have children <3 I love it! and Jefferson/Grace reunion was awesome

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  25. Idahoow15 October 2012 at 05:41

    Same time here :) so worth it!!

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  26. prpleight15 October 2012 at 05:49

    And with one line of dialog I hopped in the Aurora h8r bandwagon.




    Okay. First Emma ignores the information her mother gave her about noise and ogres. *Then* she trips over a log!?!? At least it was dark. :-) Loved Snow taking down the arrow on her own.




    And after all that Aurora is whining about not being dressed for the weather. Sweetie…if you're going to go off on a solo hike to commit murder….CHANGE CLOTHES BEFORE YOU LEAVE. Ergh!


    When Henry bypassed the school bus it occurred to me that James had not heard any of the conversation about Henry sneaking off on his own. :-)


    I actually felt sorry for Regina when it became clear that Henry had no intention of meeting her.


    Cora was just fun.


    The last few scenes were awesome. Really touching. Loved David and Henry with the swords. I really enjoyed this episode. It's a lot easier for me to put up with Emma's dunce cap worthy moves given she's so far out of her element than it was when she was in Storybrooke. At least she hasn't declared (yet?) this season that she can spot a liar. :-)

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  27. InvestedInYourFuture15 October 2012 at 06:06

    Well this was certainly a weaker episode than last week. Great, but certainly weaker.

    This episode truly showed the difference between a broken-down person who lost everything(Regina) and someone truly evil and malevolent(Cora).
    For Regina, her magic, her "Evil Queen" persona was a wall she would use to defend herself, to protect her broken heart.
    For Cora - its who she is and always will be. She can masquerade as noble knight or a poor powerless woman and no one would guess a thing.
    I guess Cora's a villain now too and the show is setting up the last showdown between the mother and the daughter this way.

    Also I bet Snow's little secret will come back to bite her somehow when Charming finds out why exactly his mother died. And the person to break the truth is right here in storybrooke - all George has to say is that he cursed Snow to never have children and Charming most likely will put two and two together.

    Also yay for Aurora getting better - I love parallels between Emma and Aurora on how both of them are emotionally stressed out and completely out of their usual element, but are trying to "get back in".

    I do not blame Emma for all those screw ups - there's an element of rebeluousness against the mother who "abandoned" her, there's an element of shock and confusion from all the horrible things that happened(she killed a dragon, broke the curse, saw a person turn to wooden puppet, met her parents, snow white and charming, opened a portal together with an evil queen, while snow white fought a wraith and then she and her mother ended up in fairytale land - its a miracle Emma's not insane or catatonic). Its also nice to see her, just like Aurora, slowly getting better.

    4/5

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  28. InvestedInYourFuture15 October 2012 at 06:08

    Actually I find it quite interesting in terms of narrative - So far pretty much EVERY person Snow met or interacted with died for her or because of her - Daniel, her father, charming's mother, lancelot, graham.

    Its an interesting idea and by now I am frankly convinced that its an intentional choice of narrtive and that its leading somewhere and I can't wait to see the show tackle this idea.

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  29. Maggi Marcus15 October 2012 at 06:40

    The whole thing about Charming/Snow/His mother was predictable, but kind of sad anyway :(
    I love the twist about Cora :) Im so glad she didnt turn out good as Regina did!
    Jefferson and his daughter! <3 Little tear escaped me


    Overal, the whole episode was OK. Nothing that wowed me, nothing that disappointed me

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  30. Kali15 October 2012 at 06:57

    I have a strange feeling that Cora was the one who loved George, Rumple had threatened her to be poisoned, and Cora left George. Then for not being poisoned, Cora had told Rumple, that he could have her firstborn - Regina. After Cora had Regina, and Rumple got her, Cora learned how to perform magic, and with magic she could have Regina back.

    I know its a bit complicated theory, but its early morning, and that was my first tought after I saw this episode, which by the way was pretty awesome! I really loved seeing the bonding between Snow and Emma. :)

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  31. Kris90715 October 2012 at 07:05

    The ending mother/daughter scene between Snow and Emma made me cry like a baby. GREAT EPISODE.

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  32. Anne Thornton15 October 2012 at 07:13

    Best episode EVER!

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  33. Anne Thornton15 October 2012 at 07:17

    ¡Estoy de acuerdo, me gusta más y más esta serie!

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  34. phnxgrl15 October 2012 at 07:29

    I loved Snow killing the ogre with an arrow in the eye! I loved how Emma's gun was crushed by the ogre!

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  35. David Fischer15 October 2012 at 07:29

    It was a pretty poor episode for me, saved only by Jefferson, Snow, and Cora. Regina's single scene broke my heart.


    Emma was an idiot all episode long. Snow says don't trust Cora, Emma says "hey guess what, I share a son with your daughter!" Emma is told Ogres hunt by sound, Emma shoots her gun, etc. It got real old real fast. Her attitude towards the people who actually knew what they were talking about made her look like a brat.


    Aurora - I don't think anyone needs to be told why she sucks.


    Mulan - Poorly acted.


    Henry - Takes advantage of his mothers love for him, skips school, refuses to ever mind his own business. Never suffers any consequences for anything he does.


    Charming - Doesn't bother sticking around to make sure Henry gets on his bus, doesn't scold Henry for skipping school, doesn't punish Henry for risking his life, decides to include Henry in his plans. Try some actual parenting, Charming.


    The Charming/Henry plot in Storybrooke was a waste of time and didn't amount to anything. The show should have caught us up with Rumpelstiltskin, Belle, or Red.


    The past!FTL story was equally a waste. Oh no, Snow can't have children! I wonder if she'll ever get this fixed! Lancelot was bland, and Charming's mother killing herself was pretty damn stupid.


    All Snow/Charming flashbacks lack any tension because we know how their story ends.


    On an unrelated note: The kingdoms recruit kids to fight those huge freaking ogres? Boy is Henry in for a surprise when he gets to FTL. Careful what you wish for kid.

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  36. Sandra Hero15 October 2012 at 07:36

    Good episode, finally some character development in Emma. Mary Margaret was sharp as always, but I knew Charming's mom was only pretending to drink the healing water.That part was predictable, but I enjoyed the episode nonetheless.

    Seems like Cora is upping the ante. Now that she's gathered the ashes of the magic wardrobe I'm quite convinced Regina is going to get a visit from dear old mommy sometime soon and it's not gonna be a happy reunion.

    King George mentioned his wife was barren because of a potion she drank. My first thought was the potion must have come from Rumple, but then I thought George would never have turned to Rumple to procure a son for him after that.

    So here's my crackpot theory:

    George is the prince from the original miller's daughter/Rumplestiltskin story and Cora (being the miller's daughter) slipped George's wife that potion.

    We know King George's kingdom was in financial dire straits and he needed gold, because he turned to King Midas for help. What if, as in the original tale, long before that he heard the miller brag his daughter could spin straw into gold. He promised to marry her if she could spin gold for him although he already had a love. That would mirror his decision to force Charming to marry Abigail for the sake of gold. So Cora who doesn't know how to spin gold turns to Rumple who makes it happen for her on the condition she give him his firstborn child. Cora agrees and she falls for King George, but she sees him with his true love. Cora curses the poor girl to be barren and backs out of her deal with Rumple because she didn't get to marry the king after all. That would explain why she is so disillusioned with love (she tells Regina love is an illusion) and it might explain why Rumple believes Regina belonged with him, not Cora...

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  37. Ralissa Vassilissa15 October 2012 at 09:04

    I have to say I agree, although I think Emma's behaviour served mainly as comic relief (at least for me). I did like the Snow/Emma mother-daughter moment in the nursery though.

    The single Regina scene was indeed heartbreaking, and it was plain cruel of Henry to keep toying with her emotions like that (I hate this kid!!!).
    Also: she's no longer Mayor??!? ;(
    If it weren't for the strangely canon Evil Charming scenes/references, I wouldn't be able to survive this season at all. (Anyone else notice how Regina/Charming are kinda like ex-spouses sharing custody over their son? Aaaawwww... <3)

    Overall, I'm in a severe Regina withdrawal, especially since "We Are Both" last week was so spectacular. I guess I'll have to keep rewatching it.

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  38. ALLA15 October 2012 at 09:45

    IMO, better than the first two episodes.
    MAGICAL is the word

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  39. InvestedInYourFuture15 October 2012 at 10:12

    I have to strongly disagree.

    Emma being "an idiot" is fully understandable considering what she went through, where she is, as well as her rebelliousness towards the mother who "abandoned" her.

    Aurora was actually better this episode and its quite clear that a lot of her irritation and pissy behavior is there for the same reason as Emma's - she is out of her element and completely stressed out.

    Mulan - thats a matter of opinion.

    Henry - agreed, but only partially. He is a kid, in a sense it also paralleled Emma's rebelliousness towards MM - they both did something stupid, but in both cases its quite understandable. I do agree that the way he treats Regina is bad.

    Charming - NEVER had a child. Never had a chance to care for him, so most of it is understandable. He IS trying an actual parenting. Also - punishing someone like Henry would be pointless - last time someone decided to punish him he ate a poisoned apple pie, the time before - ended up in a mine. All Charming can do is try to understand Henry's reasons and make him fee like he is somehow helping Charming, participating in stuff - that is a good idea of parenting.

    FTL henry/charming plot was not pointless - it established how henry feels after Emma disappeared as well as built up a sort of friendship between Charming and Henry - something that was sorely missing in S1.

    Rumple, Belle, Red from the looks will get a plenty of time and the buildup and growth of other characters should not be sacrificed for them.

    Past FTL storyline was exciting, provided new layers to Snow White, showed badass Charming taking care of himself, explained his mother's disappearance as well as built up future plotlines - like the implication that Rumple might have set up George ever needing charming twins by cursing his wife, as well as the secret Snow White kept from Charming that George, going by the ending of episode, is clearly set to exploit making Charming to either believe Snow intentionally let his mother die, or that Emma is not his daughter.

    We do not know how the story of Charming/Snow ends the time between the curse start and the apple event is an enigma and a lot of events could have happened that could change our perception of both Snow and Charming forever, not to mention the plotlines that could set up to happen in storybrooke.

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  40. nellymendezcolon15 October 2012 at 10:13

    .very sad and awesome at the same time

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  41. Cathy15 October 2012 at 10:50

    I never really believed that Cora could be contained within a simple dungeon, I just didn't see it coming that she was pretending to be Lancelot.
    Now with Hook and Cora... Regina and Rumple might be the good guys :)

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  42. Cathy15 October 2012 at 11:54

    I had never really stopped to think about it...but you are right. I just hope it leads somewhere.

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  43. chairluva4eva15 October 2012 at 12:20

    Loved it especially the Snow and Emma and Snow and Charming moments!! Loved seeing a wedding!

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  44. James Swift15 October 2012 at 12:32

    Yeah, weakest episode so far. Not terribly bad or anything, but very obviously weaker than 2.01 and 2.02.

    Mulan was okay, but I couldn't care less for Aurora. Liked the twist with Lancelot though. Didn't see that one coming and it worked well to prove that we should be worried about Cora. Barbara Hershey was great in both scenes. I can't wait for Cora to come to Storybrooke. I'm interested in King George's story too. I liked that Snow was all "what do you know about love" and someone finally told her that she and Charming are not the only ones who know true love. The twu-luv kitsch with S&C is so sweet it's making my teeth itch. And Charming's dialogue is still limited to variations of "I will always find you" and "I love you". I'd like to see more of Lancelot in flashbacks though.

    The writing for Emma was clumsy at best. Get what they were trying to do with her character in this episode and Jen Morrison did what she could with the material, but it wasn't well written. Same goes for Henry and Charming in Storybrooke. Besides. Who's willing to bet the kid didn't learn anything from Charming rewarding him for lying, skipping school, talking up strangers and getting himself almost killed? 'Best buddy' parents (or grandparents) are making it easier for the writers to involve Henry with the action in Storybrooke, but Henry's not gonna learn and grow as character if everyone is too afraid to hurt him by telling him off when he deserves it.

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  45. Courts15 October 2012 at 13:33

    I hope so, maybe as part of an emotional breakthrough for Snow and Regina.

    Snow is much more intricately plotted than others, along with Regina, with Henry and Emma being plot devices specific to them that move the plot along. So it is possible.

    You can even make an argument for Peter; her interactions with Red inspired the episode and led to his death.

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  46. McOnceUponATime15 October 2012 at 13:38

    This episode was great it wasn't weaker than the previous two - it was different the first two were quite action packed a lot going on - where I think this one was meant to be more of an emotional episode, the Emma and Snow in the nursery scene made me cry Ginny Goodwin and Jennifer Morrison work so well together.
    I also liked the fact that this episode was mostly FTL/Enchanted Forest based Emma being a little out of her depth is realistic - none of what she's seeing is what she is familiar with Ogres being blind? when I was watching the scene where the Ogre is in front of Emma I was expecting her to unintentionally use magic to protect herself - like she has magic but doesn't realise she has it also when she and Snow were confronted by Cora in the nursery I expected Emma to do something but nothing - which makes me question if she actually does have magic at all.

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  47. Bros4ever15 October 2012 at 14:08

    I thought this was a good episode yes not better than last weeks episode but still good. I don't know if I like Mulan yet she's kind of rubbing me the wrong way. Aurora is alright, she's definitely not a favorite but she'll I have a feeling will grow on me in the next episodes.
    Very excited to see Hook next week and man Cora is really the evilest of them all lol.

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  48. Courts15 October 2012 at 14:23

    Henry HAS learned something: that manipulating and lying pays off. He did it throughout all of season 1, constantly getting rewarded for it so it would make sense that he doesn't change in Season 2. But it's especially cruel considering that he kept going on and on about how much Regina didn't love him and now he's using her love against her.

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  49. Courts15 October 2012 at 14:24

    I thought they referenced Cora being able to perform magic before she had Regina.

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  50. Mohd Taufik Mohammad15 October 2012 at 14:37

    This episode was more motional than usual. I cried during the scene when Emma realized that Snow put her first and when she said, "I am not used to people putting me first," I broke down. I couldn't handle it. I'm glad that we see a bit of the Mad Hatter and I'm very happy that he found his daughter. I think of all the father-child separation stories, his was the most heart-breaking one. With the close second was Geppeto and Pinocchio. Great episode!

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  51. Cathy15 October 2012 at 14:42

    Is Snow cursed? We don't really know much about her mother and father.
    (Let's not forget that her mother also died during birth.)
    People tend to willingly sacrifice/risk themselves for her...I don't know what to make of it.

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  52. Courts15 October 2012 at 15:09

    Maybe they just want to play point/counterpoint with Regina. Where Snow is always the one who people willingly sacrifice/risk for and Regina is the one who is always used as a tool but never given genuine love.

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  53. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 15:11

    Loved Fringe references "over there" and of course the actress who plays "Ruth" is Olivias shrink(s), and of course the similar situation of Emma and Snow with Etta and Olivia, and "shapeshifter" is a double reference to Lost's smoke monster and actual Fringe shapeshifters. (as the smoke monster is also "polymorphic" a staple note of Bad Robot works, as polymorphic things are also present in Super 8 and Alias).


    Thought this episode was another good one! Emma so far has been reacting much better than I thought! Although I still worry for her, because she was willing to trust Cora, despite what Snow said...


    More Harry Potter references with the Ogre, as Marry Margaret really is like a grown up Hermione Granger (teacher/over achieved student) -Sorcerer's Stone , and there was talk of a magic cup/Chalice with immortality properties = Half Blood Price/Beetle the Bard, and the episode tied back with "What Happened to Fredrick" which is similar to scenes with "sirens in the lake" to Goblet of Fire,and Henry going into Regina's vault and dealing with snakes is like Chamber of Secrets/Sorcerers' Stone combined.--All of this seems to be leaning towards issues with immortality.


    I am still not sure if I like the plot with Aurora, but I would like to see where it goes!

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  54. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 15:13

    Kate Austen.

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  55. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 15:21

    :D Ya Rumple and Regina are starting to look like much better people!

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  56. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 15:28

    Good point! :D


    I agree there is something pretty screwed up and discerning seeing Henry do this, but this act in particular was worse IMO than anything Henry has done before, as breaking the curse almost seemed to break his strong faith as he seems to more ferociously want to take matters into his own hands.


    But I agree when he took the steering wheel from Emma at the end of last season shows an extreme and kind or irrational aspect to Henry's personality which I tend to think is leading us towards whom Henry's father is...

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  57. Cathy15 October 2012 at 15:47

    I agree with you about the counterpoint, but I still hope the writers will give us a reason for people to constantly sacrifice their lives for Snow. They could be inspired by her and willing to sacrifice something for her, but not end up dying, for instance, but only getting injured. It would be a lighter weight for her to carry.
    I really hope they are not expecting to pull the "it was all a bit of coincidence" (father, mother, Daniel, Philipp) + "her pure heart makes people want to redeem themselves whatever the price/put her hapiness before theirs" (Huntsman, Lancelot, Charming's mom).

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  58. Cathy15 October 2012 at 15:54

    Nice observation of the Fringe and Harry Potter references :)
    Not very fond of Emma in general and her acting super stupid was only redeemed by the fact that she opened up to Mary Margaret later on, so...ok.
    Aurora, in the other hand, would really have to perform a miracle for her character to stop being oooooh soooooooooo annoyiiiiiiiiiiiing. I would have prefered if Cora was shapeshifting Aurora and then boom, Aurora is gone! Purple smoke has more charisma than her character.
    Well, regarding immortality: Rumple is immortal, people in Neverland would be immortal, I am guessing that Cora could be immortal. Maybe Regina too... Anyway, there could be something to it, just have no idea what. Will they all start freaking out that now that the curse is broken they are actually going to get old and die?

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  59. Courts15 October 2012 at 16:08

    I would have thought breaking the curse would only make his faith stronger, make it obvious to him that the ends justify the means. I mean, every time he did something bad, he was rewarded by getting closer to the curse breaking. His extreme irrationality can be excused as part of being a child, not thinking through consequences, like with the steering wheel or going into the mine. But WHY those things are dangerous and why he needs to listen and think are not approached by anyone.

    There's an irony to be had in that the only person who actually seemed to be attempting that kind of behaviour was Regina, but that was offset by her doing the wrong thing as well. It makes her easy to dismiss, both for him and the viewer whereas the Charmings are still so desperate for his affection that they're not willing to be harsh.


    It's very interesting the way Henry used Regina here and the way he is completely disconnected from her. Some people make good points and say that she gaslighted him by trying to make him think that he was crazy so it's reasonable. But we've also seen other abusive parents on the show in Cora and Rumple. Cora emotionally and physically abused Regina, presumably more than we saw, as well as murdered someone she cared about. Baelfire watched his father murder people right in front of him for no reason at all. Yet both of them were incredibly adamant about loving their parents, Baelfire even going so far as to make huge heroic sacrifices in order to save Rumple from himself. So the disconnect of Henry from Regina doesn't make sense except when you step back and realize that unlike Regina and Baelfire or even the other children we've seen on the show, Henry serves more as a plot device than anything.

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  60. Courts15 October 2012 at 16:11

    The cup with immortality isn't Harry Potter. It's Arthurian legend, the Holy Grail. Of course, Harry Potter is heavily based on Arthurian mythology so it's understandable that they'd be similar.

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  61. Leonie198815 October 2012 at 16:21

    but Lancelot did not necessarily die because of Snow, did he?

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  62. Leonie198815 October 2012 at 16:22

    yeah, snow is kick ass and fantastic, I agree!

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  63. Leonie198815 October 2012 at 16:24

    ruby had a scene as red in the flashbacks :)

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  64. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 16:25

    Ok many pop cultural works take and barrow things from previous pop-cultural and/or allegorical works....Even the Wrarth (soul sucker) is reminiscent of a dementor, but the concept of a wrath is MUCH older, just like the Chalice, than R.K. Rowling's references to them, as like with Once, one can argue that Rowling borrowed this concepts/idea from other places.


    Immortality is something relative to MANY things...as humanity has been transfixed with it since our beginnings....

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  65. Leonie198815 October 2012 at 16:26

    Same here :) I like it magical and SB was always a bit too much like a normal town ;)

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  66. Leonie198815 October 2012 at 16:36

    I think this was a really great episode.
    The first one was great to bring everyone up to speed and the second was good, but not balanced enough.
    I loved every snow/emma scene and the wedding was sweet and the end made me cry.
    cora was truely evil, but I found Lancelot charming ;)

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  67. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 16:38

    Ya. I think we're definitely think the show is progressing forward in terms of looking at different types of immortality in relation to these characters pursuits and actions.


    (what we know about Daniel in an upcoming episode, I think we can more thoroughly guess that it will be Cora's transformative abilities...but honestly I would really like the prospect of it not being of Cora's doing, because then it add's a conflicting element with immortality in this universe)


    But I think you bring up a great thought (thinking about Richard Albert) here and the idea that curse is broken might reverse some things....(:

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  68. Cathy15 October 2012 at 16:39

    First of all, he risked his life when he ran away from King George's court.
    Apparently he was a disgraced Knight working as a mercenary or muscle for hire. He even said that the little honour he had left had prompted him to come after Snow. It seems to me that she once again caused someone (Lancelot) to want to redeem himself. Therefore, he was no longer bad, but back to being nice.
    If Cora wanted to hire him or recruit him for whatever the reason, being a redeemed nice person with honour he would have said no and then gotten killed by Cora.
    Well, he did directly risk his life for Snow when he went after her. Besides that, it appears to me that the Snow-effect of making people want to redeem themselves would end up being the reason for his demise, but very very indirectly.

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  69. Courts15 October 2012 at 16:44

    yeah, I wasn't debating that. But in the context of LANCELOT being there it was a reference to Arthurian legend, not Harry Potter.

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  70. InvestedInYourFuture15 October 2012 at 16:46

    Let's not forget Stealthy - who most likely would not have died, had they not taken Snow along with them,.

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  71. Cathy15 October 2012 at 16:47

    I think you are soooo right. Cora is able to go to Storybrooke and instead of confronting Regina, starts tautuing her to exact her revenge slowly, making Regina suffer by shapeshiftin into Daniel and allowing herself (in Daniel form) to be briefly seen by Regina. If that's the case, damn, it is COLD!

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  72. Cathy15 October 2012 at 16:48

    OMG, she is worst than the plague, hahahaaha.

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  73. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 16:54

    There was also something horrifically eerie having Henry see his name on a sarcophagus (I know it's Henry senior), but it's just the irony or forshaddowing of perhaps facing death in some way. (Cora knows about him now)


    I think those people do make a point, but I am more inclined to agree with you here. I do think he is a plot device, but to me it's not to say that it isn't relative to anyone, as it's this great adventurous enthusiastic take charge almost righteous and not always very well thought out streak is very Snow White at times

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  74. DarthLocke415 October 2012 at 17:04

    The scene with the Ogre clearly parallels Harry Potter too, just as there where many other HP references through out the episode and in previous episodes. It wasn't to say that it isn't also Arthurian Legend, leading to more of it, bit more over that both references can be made with one thing/object.


    Even the name Alice (like Alice in Wonderland) may derive from Medievil Alys a name featured in Canterbury Tales...(as Emma may currently parallel Alice in Wonderland)

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  75. Joshua AJB15 October 2012 at 17:41

    I enjoyed this ep a lot more than the first two, although I'm finding Mulan/Aurora a little annoying.


    Cora is a super fun villain and providing something fresh to the show in terms of villainy.

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  76. Chase Hunter15 October 2012 at 18:52

    The symbology of the chalice actually extends further back into Pre-Christian, Pagan times. The chalice represented the Goddess's powers of youth, fertility, and nurturing abilities. Same idea but with different names/ forms of divinity.

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  77. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:31

    Oh, OUAT, another week, better in some ways, par for the course in others. Snow ROCKS! Love that girl. Emma is, however, on my last nerve. Mulan is horrific and even putting her next to the shrill indoor dog Aurora can't make her look either tough or competent. Her acting is atrocious even for FTL.


    But OMG, the storytelling is just pathetically amateurish. All the flashbacks were useless, we already knew Snow would have a kid, there was no tension there, so it needed to have been about how much they wanted a kid, how much they wanted to raise it, to be there for it, and that should have been contrasted with the loss of that opportunity. But George was the only one who had emotion in the game, but they undermined that to protect the potential for "secrets" as to who his wife is. They barely touched on Snow/Charming's emotions because Charming wasn't in on the problem (but Lancelot was 'cause he inexplicably changed sides just like he inexplicably started working for King George as a master tactician and ruthless warrior in the first place???). It should have been paralleled with Charming and Henry but the closest they got to actually do so was a shot in the car of King George? Because, sure, HIS plight is the one we care about!? But even the inconsistencies and the twist of Lancelot's character meant nothing because he was already dead. I'm not going to get emotionally invested in a character who is dead. That needed to be the reveal at the very end, not have another flashback scene to develop his "big heart" character when we already stopped caring about him. All the greatest fairytale archetypes to work with, with built in characterization and audience attachment, and backstories--it's just frustrating. They are already standing on the shoulders giants how can they not even reach the low-hanging fruit?

    They've got to stop caring about parcelling out info and opening up the potential for secrets and twists, and start caring about character and dramatic plot arcs.

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  78. Leonie198817 October 2012 at 00:52

    ok you've got a point :-) or more!

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  79. Bruce_F17 October 2012 at 00:52

    Solid episode.
    - The Emma / Snow stuff was good. I do think that OUAT is pushing it a lot closer toward a traditional mother-daughter relationship when I don't think it should be. Their relationship is anything but traditional.
    - I understand that the OUAT writers are trying to slowly build Emma into the hero she's destined to be but it's frustrating that they've resorted to writing her like a numbskull to emphasize the transition.
    - If Emma was wiser about using her .38 she would have had it at the castle and could have put a bullet in the back of Cora's head.
    - Is it just me or are both Aurora and Mulan becoming even less tolerable as characters the more we get to know them?
    - It's too bad Lancelot is dead. I liked that guy. Then again, it's Cora we're talking about so she could totally be lying.
    - The SFX on the ogre were decent until you put Snow in the same frame with it.
    - Someone should tell Henry that just because Regina has done awful things doesn't make it right that he uses her feelings to deceive her and snoop through her stuff. I actually felt bad that Henry manipulated Regina like that. It's that kind of behavior that will only encourage Regina to continue being awful.
    - I like the storytelling approach they're taking with OUAT this season. Instead of trying to cram everyone into every episode, they take a few people and spotlight them on a week-to-week basis. So, even though you don't see everyone in every episode, when they do show up they're given plenty of good material instead of just a "hi, I'm still here" cameo.

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  80. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:52

    Hate to jump on this illogical train. But Snow told them to exit the castle the other way. If Stealthy had gone with Snow he probably would have been fine. It was him going to other way that caused them to get caught. Snow SAVED Grumpy from being killed as well.

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  81. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:52

    We have no idea how Lancelot died and the fact that Snow was cursed into another dimension at the time should kind of absolve her of the "fault."

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  82. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:53

    Good fighting against evil by the only means available by the writers, sacrifice and turning the other cheek, is the cause of many peoples' deaths.


    But Snow didn't kill Charming's mother any more than Lancelot did when she chose to not take the magic water. It was her choice that Snow didn't even know she made.


    Why is it that in these discussions evil makes conscious choices to do things and you guys wipe the slate clean and good is tangentially related to some action someone else did and they are blamed?

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  83. phnxgrl17 October 2012 at 00:53

    Oh Emma does have magic lots of it but she still does not believe so it does not manifest. Only when Emma touched Regina did the two magics work the Hat. Also before the curse was broken she caused the Hat to work too! So there is much magic in Emma whenever she chooses to believe in it.

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  84. Mohd Taufik Mohammad17 October 2012 at 00:53

    Why do people keep asking for "add-ups"? They will complain whenever a storyline is not adding anything up to the show? I just don't understand this. Why can't this show have a light storyline that just shows us little relationship about who the characters are with each other. Some people complained about Charming-Henry storyline which didn't add up, I mean who cares? It shows the grampa-grandchild relationship that gets warmer and warmer each episode. I like it. We never see (or is it rarely?) Charming and Henry interacting in season 1.

    Of course we knew already that Snow would have a kid, but it's the journey that we want to see. If using your logic, we already knew that Snow and Charming got together, so why bother having their flashbacks at all? Why bother having flashbacks about them taking back their kingdom at all? Because we knew they'd get it back.

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  85. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:53

    Um...basic tenets of storytelling and writing 101? The goal is to create dramatic tension, to make your audience care about the characters and those characters attaining whatever "goals" they are reaching for. If you already know they are going to get whatever they want, you have to give us some other reason to care about the plot, in this case, for me that would have been to parallel the Charming/Henry story in Storybrooke OR to develop the emotional impact of not getting to know and raise Emma. But since they did neither, they left it as solely a plot level discussion and that's like asking you to pay attention to a murder mystery after we told you who did it on the first page. Flashbacks are inherently problematic in storytelling and that's why in writing 101 you are told to not use them. They are generally the purview of people who can't figure out how to give the necessary background or character development within the main tale itself. It's a lazy way of storytelling. Lost and OUAT, aka Lost 2.0, writers use it to create post hoc stories and rewrite rules, also lazy. But that is why people ask for things to "add up" and to have a point instead of just waste our time.

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  86. DarthLocke417 October 2012 at 00:53

    Thank you!!!!!!
    (Now thinking about POTC that makes sense! The Spanish were outraged by Aqua Di Vita and called it "Pagan Water") I know even Grecian philosophy has a lot of Plato-pluralistic concepts, but it's neat to know the "cup" goes back that far too!

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  87. DarthLocke417 October 2012 at 00:53

    If you think about Henry being like "Snow" at times, you can see a deeper story line...


    IMO after having some time to discuss things with others, there's been a lot of ideas centering more and more around immortality and facing death.


    One scene I really like was Henry looking at Henry Sr.'s sarcophagus and saw his name there...IMO this could be foreshadowing, as we are also set up with this whole story of Cora trying to get to Storybrooke. When Emma tells Cora about Henry, Mary/Snow is very upset at Emma for telling her about Henry. What's curious is that first some how, despite not yet seeing a scene where Snow comes to fear Cora, we know Snow found out something more bad about her some time, but also it's curious because we don't understand Cora and Henry Sr.'s relationship, especially if she would turn out to double as Queen of Hearts. And would have had Henry Sr. in a little box in a box vault in Wonderland (which is similar to Regina's heart vault, that Henry Jr ventured too find in the same episode).


    I think flashbacks are only lazy, if they don't add substance to the show. For shows like Lost and Once, you can use a flashback, just like you can use an alternate universe, or "case of the week" to establish relativity in the that universe, as these shows thrive on the concept of fate and incarnations of ourselves, which is why it is important to see counterparts, parallels, and/or mirrors. The show is about humanity and it's choices in relation to social politics and family. If this would be a more procedural non serialized, existential stark show about realism, I would agree with you, but since it isn't, I can understand the importance to string and manifest it all together through time and space.


    I also think it's a curious choice to put Aurora in the same boat as Emma, instead of Mulan. I am not sure what to make of that choice, but I don't know Aurora well enough to speculate where her story line is going.


    In a lot of ways I think this episode is a set up episode, but I think there was enough brewing in it for it to come to mean more down the road.

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  88. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:53

    I can see a lot of things if I do the writers' jobs for them. :) The possibilities are endless. I've got quite an imagination and a degree in English literature. I don't do that. I write my own stories for that. Kitsis and Horowitz should be doing it here. They should add the scenes between Snow and Charming to show us how much they wanted children. They should use language to emphasize the chance that Charming has with Henry vs the one he lost with Emma. They should explain why George who seemed to have raised James, felt like he'd never had a son. Making vague allusions to other stories doesn't suffice. Lewis Carroll didn't write OUAT. They aren't creating those parallels--you are. You work five to ten times harder making more out of this story than Kitsis and Hororwitz ever got close to. They throw the everything and the kitchen sink at the script and hope something sticks and if it doesn't, later they can pick up all the allusions and the props and the set decoration and try again. Because "down the road" is all they ever care about. They sacrificed having a meaningful emotionally developed story with King George for the "twist" or the "reveal" down the road. They did it with Lost and when you got to the end you hit a cliff with all the allusions and answers lying busted meaningless at the bottom.

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  89. Cathy17 October 2012 at 00:55

    The point is not that Lancelot's death is linked to Snow (might be, but very very indirectly), but that he also risked his life to help her (and Charming) in the cabin situation. He could have been killed and decided to help Snow knowing about the risks.

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  90. Cathy17 October 2012 at 00:56

    I don't think Snow is to blame for the death of Charming's mom, but it is yet another situation in which she is directly connected to the death of the person. Charming's mom willingly sacrificed herself for Charming and Snow's happiness, a choice she only had to make because Snow had unknowingly drank the infertility potion. Had Snow not been there, she would have drank the water herself and would still be alive.

    I don't think Snow is to blame for anything, I just think it is interesting that she is connected to so many deaths and can almost instantly inspire strangers to risk themselves for her. I am hoping there is some backstory to this, since the writers tend to make apparent coincidences have much more into them.

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  91. McOnceUponATime17 October 2012 at 00:56

    Yeah all a long I thought she had magic - I guess I just want to see her use it more like discover she actually has magical powers - I think it would be good to she her reaction!.

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  92. DarthLocke417 October 2012 at 00:58

    Well I disagree that Lost (and it's ending) was meaningless too, so I think we're going to differ on a lot of things in general. Understanding Lost IMO required being able to understand philosophy and/or theology in conjunction to physics, as the ones in the dark where still hero's, still faced death, so that all of humanity could continue to progress in their next incarnation, as the FS was an ethereal plane between corporeal realities/life times, where one started to glimpse their future, but they had to let go of their past in order to move onto that future. It was about hope for all no matter who we are, or even when things happen that we don't understand, or don't make immediate sense, as everything was happening because of this HUGE time machine, the Island...


    Emma's name means "all encompassing"/ Universal, which is why she isn't "just" Alice and at this point can only have allusions to Alice, since we are also not dealing with Wonderland directly at the moment either. Emma is meant to reflect and absorb everyone.


    I think Charming's reaction is natural. Wanting children is not the same as having and raising them. Let alone he feels responsible to take care of the whole town, whom are also scared...They have just realized that they have more than on persona/identity. I just think it was realistic to not have Charming know how to be a father and although he wanted to protect Henry from Regina, I think he doesn't have the experience to know how to do it right. These relationships are going to take TIME to build.


    I agree that George's story line seems vague, but guess who just made an appearance in Storybrooke...It seems like we are going to get to more of the elder characters stories this season, since they decided to go back to them...


    Most likely Once will not be the same in terms of an ending, because in Lost, the more personal things were answered, just not the point blank physics. In Once we don't need to understand all the physics, since we are dealing with a different set of quantum mechanics in general with FTL...This is more like Felicity in that this is about close relationships and expectations. It's about these people becoming better people and hopefully finding a happy ending.

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  93. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:59

    I do agree that we're going to disagree on a lot. :) I respect that you want to take the time to draw allusions and figure out the etymology of names and tie this show to everything Bad Robot has ever done. However, I don't think it is worth the effort. If they can't write a meaningful line of dialogue all the allusions that you make up and try so very hard to turn into thought-provoking discussions aren't intentional. It's not Joyce. It's kindergarten-level writing. Take Charming's response to Snow after the necklace started working. They went for the easy joke never once considering that 1) it made Charming (a farmer) stupid and 2) It insinuated that they'd had premarital sex. I have similar problems with Emma and Snow and Regina's dialogue. If they can't even think through the very basic first level of what they are writing, there is no point in digging down three more layers and claiming that any of that was put there with a purpose. They are playing with some very detailed mythology and folklore. Characters and stories that have been around for generations and have been used in music and literature and plays/onscreen. They aren't consciously or deftly playing with any of it (King Arthur is a perfect example), IMO they are simply capitalizing on the existing structure and waving their hands at the rest. It's magic, it's physics, it's theology. I can understand all of these things but don't give Kitsis and Horowitz the same credit.


    I applaud your faith that they will get back to stuff and somehow make a meaningful story, but that screws the pacing and the emotional development all for "mystery" which they are making up as they go along.

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  94. Courts17 October 2012 at 00:59

    That's pretty much it. The ends justify the means as long as you're told by the narrative that the character is good.

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  95. lsbloom17 October 2012 at 00:59

    Snow is directly connected to everything. It is an incredibly incestuous story and she is one of the main protagonists. Rumple is connected to everything, if he hadn't given James the twin boys, James would never have been angry at Charming would never have cursed Snow and wouldn't have sent soldiers to Charming's house with the intent of killing Charming and his mother.


    Causality isn't standing next to something. There has to be intent. I agree that "good" does a lot of sacrificing. It's because the writers won't let them actually defeat evil, just let them go for another battle. So until evil finally wins (cause they sure aren't gonna quit), all good can do is die for each other. Snow ate the apple to save Charming. Emma went through the portal to save everybody. Pinocchio jumps off the raft to save Geppetto. Frederick turned to gold to save Midas. Philip died to save Aurora and Mulan. These are noble gestures. Gestures that "evil" doesn't make. Rumple didn't sacrifice himself for his son he killed for him...making him evil. Regina sacrificed Jefferson to save her dad.


    Lots of people are "dying" or "sacrificing" in this show, It's isn't "good's" fault it happens preferentially to that team because it is inherently part of the game based on the canted playing surface the writer's created.

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  96. DarthLocke417 October 2012 at 00:59

    In that respect I will agree with you. (and thanks for the respect) I think in Lost the dialogue was fantastic, but ultimately people couldn't understand it's meaning (But I also think Lost was meant to be more allusive, because that goes hand in hand with concept being 'lost')...so now, with the exception Fringe, I see this trend to have way simpler dialogue. I think it's because they don't want there to be any confusion so that all viewers can understand.Personally I am not that found of it. In Once I can accept it, because I think lines are delivered well and I enjoy the interactions and story enough, but in Revolution it is something that continues to really irritate me, especially with the way certain scenes are put back to back. (There is almost too much face to face moments with the same kind of dialogue, with often the same set of characters repeatedly) But there might be something to be said (sometimes) about having a simple line that can have more than one meaning in terms of something rather complicated so that all of the possible definitions of that thing/idea can bring more viewers together in that thought. It's a way to not isolate viewers by choosing a specific belief system, as I think the shows are pro humanism and want to bring us and the characters together in a way we can all compromise. Like Courts emphised the Chalice and being "Arthurian" given our Lancelot and episode title and I went for Harry Potter, despite that her reference is stronger, -but in any case through disusing it, we can see that perhaps HP borrowed Arthurian, and that both barrow from Ancient Culture/Theology/Philosophy and thus it is a reminder that this show is about connectivity and relativity of all human-related history (which is often kept through recorded writing...stories = preservation), as we all barrow and work from ideas from things that came before...


    Even if one would begin to write a book I think there is naturally going to be road blocks along the way, but also moments of genius. I think since these serialized shows are kind of forced to write it as they go, it's hard to know who and what you may be able to working with here verses there and it presents a challenge because you may want to go somewhere, but things like actors schedules, financial concerns, and network influence all can play a roll in derailing them from certain goals. So I do think that sometimes things are set up that end up getting lost, or not resolved that can't be helped, which is another reason I give them the benefit of the doubt, because I know that it isn't just at the expense of what they want, as much as it is about what they can get.

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  97. DarthLocke417 October 2012 at 01:00

    Ya exactly. Which Snow has done too! I know there have been discussions before that maybe it's not the magic that's wrong, or even doing some underhanded things to save the people that is always wrong, but more over the cost of the actions and to what end one uses magic for. I mean it would be nice to have Henry eventually learn a moral, but I think it's also more acceptable coming from him since he hasn't hurt anyone (accept Regina who might actually deserve being emotionally hurt in terms of how she had treated him) and/or is only a child who hasn't had the experience to really know the differences between these things.

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  98. 04ikhan17 October 2012 at 01:03

    I'm really likeing this season, the ep was great

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  99. phnxgrl17 October 2012 at 22:54

    Until she believes she has it nothing will matter.

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  100. Leonie198818 October 2012 at 11:49

    good of Mulan (and aurora) to see, that snow is very capable and certainly no enemy. snow will do a great job (even with her experiences as MM) to lead that war.

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  101. omabin21 October 2012 at 21:40

    i am loving this season so much more than season 1. I don't think this episode was as strong as the regina episode, but then again, her episodes tend to be my favorites. But i thought it was quite possibly one of Once Upon a Time most beautifl (for the lack of a better word) episodes yet. It was extremely well done and I loved the mirroring themes of the three universes. The writers did an excellent job managing the three of them. Love that they are having Cora as a huge present time villain, she is perfect for that. But I did not understand what she collected at the end. Was it from the wardrobe? Also, really cool team of Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Mullan and Emma wandering around that world ahah, some kicking ass. I also did not see the King George alive in storybrook twist coming and especially the lancelot is dead and is Cora twist coming . Cant wait for the new episode tonight!

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  102. omabin21 October 2012 at 21:41

    I concur with the regina/henry comment. But I think that's because I love that character so much that I always feel biased.

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  103. Cathy8 April 2014 at 03:11

    Isn't it ironic that Henry is being just as deceitful and manipulative as Regina with the justification that it is all for the good? He lies and manipulates to get what he wants. The only difference is that what he wants is "good".

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  104. lsbloom8 April 2014 at 03:12

    It's funny. I spend most of my time on Revolution trying to get people to think through the show and see the parallels and I spend most of my time on OUAT trying to stop paying attention. The irony (or some might say hypocrisy) isn't lost on me. :)

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