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POLL : What did you think of Fringe - The Recordist?

13 Oct 2012

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45 comments:

  1. Ben Carpenter13 October 2012 at 03:21

    weakest episode of the season so far

    ReplyDelete
  2. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 03:53

    I don't know that I thought it was the weakest but I do not think it was one of the best. Mind you, we're pretty early in and we did advance the story. I sometimes think when a show has produced some of the finest hours of television that I have ever seen, that the bar is set so high that merely excellent episodes can seem disappointing.


    That all said, I thought Walter was in especially fine form tonight.

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  3. Totallyaddicted00513 October 2012 at 03:56

    This episode was great so emotional!!! I rated it awesome. Fave scenes polivia at the car and the story about searching for Etta and Liv very motherly grabbing Etta's leg in the car/ Ettas smile and the Bishop family driving off in their station wagon. ADORABLE!! The scene with River and his father was fantastic and I can't wait to get that quote down and use it for myself etc. If anyone has that quote about what it means to be a coward PLEASE send it my way, it works perfectly for a story Im working on. I give it an 8.5 out of 10 can't wait for 5.04 sucks we have to wait 2 weeks this is going to be a VERY long 2 weeks

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  4. Ben Carpenter13 October 2012 at 04:02

    actually it's already about 25% into the season, it's only 13 episodes long this time.

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  5. ShatteredOne13 October 2012 at 04:14

    Still great but not as good as the first two episodes, and yet, better than most other shows. Interesting to find out more about Peter and Olivia's choices and feelings in the time that we've skipped. And that boy's father was a hero, it may not have been the biggest thing to happen ever, but he chose to die to help the Fringe team in the effort to defeat the Observers.

    Can it be next Friday yet?

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  6. DarqueMode13 October 2012 at 04:15

    Another fairly slow moving episode for me.
    Last week we had some movement and action to distract from the slowness This week it just plodded along to me.


    Those character moments I usually like with Fringe felt empty to me tonight. They really did not advance the story much, if at all, and they. They really only showed us what we already knew or suspected.


    The good news though was that we now have the mineral needed to power the weapon to defeat the Invaders.


    I liked the very LOST like electromagnetism callback as well as going into a bunker when mentioning it! Oh and the call sign for the Recordist was Alpha Kilo 42.....42!!
    Bad Robot mythology never dies, it just lives on in other shows!


    I also liked the calcification on the people's bodies. It reminded me of "Greyscale" in A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones). Just about how I pictured it in my mind and quite a cool effect.


    My sense is that the hero-sacrificing-himself theme will be seen again towards the end of the series. Maybe this was a not-so-subtle foreshadowing of a future event or there just to help prepare some viewers for the eventuality of one of our heroes dying at the end of the series.


    I liked seeing that there are more rebels within the loyalist authority that will help the resistance. I also really agreed with the message of Edwin Massey about fear and cowardice and heroes etc.... The odd thing about this episode to me was that it felt like a stand alone filler episode even though in many ways it dealt directly with the show's mythology. However, I just did not connect with this episode like some of the more stand alone episodes of the past like White Tulip.


    All in all the episode was just "OK" for me....

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  7. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 04:17

    True enough. Still, 1/4 | 25% is still pretty early in story arc terms. A movie is usually still in heavy exposition and has not yet started the wind-up to the peaking action, a novel has generally just finished setting scene and character and a poem has yet to hint at its full flavor.


    I always refer plot to Stairway to Heaven .... you know that bridge piece where it goes from a ballad to a rock and roll song ... it slowly winds up and before you know it *everything* about the song has changed and everything after that is counterpoint to all that came before? That guitar solo is the climax wind up starting its run..Stanza 5 of 7+, in the song. That's about Episode 7 of 13, I will guess. Continuing with the analogy, we're still on the second stanza (There's a sign on the wall ...). I expect next episode (4) will be the "statement of intent" for the way the story ends and (5,6) will be steady progression towards the goal with minor setbacks. Then the game changer at the 7 spot and from there on in it will likely be a pretty steady ride uphill. Just my guesses.


    Sorry to be so long winded :),

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  8. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 04:25

    Good post. I think my response is similar. Truthfully, while I am interested in the character relationships and the human drama, I watch Fringe for the mythology and the fringe science and the out there *big* ideas. Not so much for the studies in and statements about human nature - except as these studies and statements are byproducts of the story. I am not fond of episodes where they ARE the story.

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  9. Ben Carpenter13 October 2012 at 04:40

    I think you're thinking of Bohemian Rhapsody, unless both song are similar in structure, believe it or not I've never heard Starway to Heaven haha... but I see your point.

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  10. DarqueMode13 October 2012 at 04:58

    I liked the scene with the quote too, but one thing distracted me during it. IT looked to me like Paul McGillion's calcification make-up was peeling off of his right cheek. Maybe they did multiple takes and him taking off his glasses one too many times shifted the prosthetic a bit so the edges were curling up....


    Anyway here is that quote:
    There's a lot more to the word "Coward" and the word "Hero" than you think. It's complicated.


    You're not a coward if you're afraid. that's not what it means. You're a coward if you know what needs to be done and you don't do it.


    There are other fear and hero quotes that are similar to that so it's a play on those in a lot of ways I think...


    A few of my favorites...
    "Heroism is not only in the man, but in the occasion"
    ~ Calvin Coolidge


    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear."
    ~ Ambrose Redmoon



    "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. "
    - Mark Twain

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  11. DarqueMode13 October 2012 at 05:07

    Exactly.
    Well said...

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  12. Mutsie13 October 2012 at 05:36

    ...It was a kind of a slow episode but hey it is Fringe and it needs a certain slowness for the Explosive end, right??? This show sure knows how to build a climax... So I am ready.... ♥

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  13. RobertAriadne13 October 2012 at 06:15

    Not as good as the last two, but it recentered the focus of the season; and not necessarily in a good way. I have some ideas as to how this'll go down as we head towards the finale.


    I think, and I've thought as far back as Letters of Transit, that Walter's plan is to build a giant Beacon to lock the Observers out of all universes and all timelines (though I wonder why they wouldn't try to reopen the portal to the other side). Such a device would obviously require an enormous power source, like what they found in the mine. We need to see September again before this all finishes.


    The actual "recordists" were extremely disappointing, I was expecting something more sinister. WHY aren't there more resistance fighters? Did everyone just give up on reclaiming the earth for themselves and their offspring? You may say something like Edwin, "it would do more harm than good; maybe if we keep our heads down and be good, they'll leave us alone." But that's bullshit, and I'll explain why later.


    One thing about the recording room: did anyone else think of the Jedi Archives?


    Glad Astrid got something to do this week, but I can't help but wonder why she got betamax detail. I imagine she, Broyles (WHERE is he?), and possibly Walter will die this season.


    I got some heated responses last week about my take on torturing Gale the Loyalist; most agreed with Olivia in pitying him and letting him go. I disagreed, saying that Etta was right to torture him, and that he was untrustworthy. One common point that came up was "Our compassion is what separates us from the Observers, if we lose that, we're just as bad." Any cruelty undertaken during war can be justified (remember Walternate's comeback to Fauxlivia in 6:02 AM EST "That's because you still have the luxury of your ideals. I have to be pragmatic.").


    My critics believe that our humanity, our compassion, is what separates us from the likes of Windmark; but that is wrong. It's our FREE WILL that separates the two of us. When someone comes along and says "You are too foolish to govern yourselves, we know better." THAT is the true dehumanizer. To truly be human, people MUST be allowed to choose for themselves what is right and what isn't.


    Oftentimes, this can lead to unimaginable tragedy; senseless, preventable tragedy. People are not angels (James Madison wrote that "If men were angels, no government would be necessary"); we are miserable, fucked-up, broken creatures. But we are capable of SO much if we truly wish to change. We can do wonderful, beautiful things: the moon landing, the pyramids, the works of Shakespeare, Beethoven, etc; BUT ONLY IF WE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE. If freedom is absent, the gesture is meaningless.


    To quote another amazing work (I'd be a great recordist) on freedom: "An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must NEVER let them take it from us." Freedom can, and often does, lead to evil; but it is only through it that we can dream a better world for the Rivers in our lives, and use our inborn abilities to build it. The Human Spirit, in short, and because Olivia, Walter, Peter, Astrid, and Etta are full of it; they can... must... and WILL beat the Observers.
    (I'm RobertAriadne, and I approve this message)

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  14. J13 October 2012 at 07:06

    It was an ok episode but I was surprised at myself when I released an, "aaaaw," when Olivia touched Etta's leg. That was my favorite part.

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  15. TayaP713 October 2012 at 09:14

    Love your reference! And I agree that the plot structure will be very much alike, at least that's my opinion seeing the way they started this season. And if the end is anything like Stairway to Heaven finale, we're in for a great treat! ;)

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  16. Lou13 October 2012 at 09:30

    Pretty sure its Fringe mission to make me cry every episode this season. Whether it be with Olivia and Peter's talk, or the whole coward/hero thing. I know some people are all about the mythology but like Lost and BSG I think that characters are going to win out in this final season so yeah don't expect everything to be answered.

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  17. TayaP713 October 2012 at 09:44

    I agree it was a little slow, but, honestly, I really didn't mind it. I like the way they are developing the characters, and the fact that we get to see only small, little details: we saw that not all Loyalists are bad (and I'm hoping to meet more of them who work with the Resistance), that the Fringe team cooperates well with Anil and the rest of the Resistance, and even a little bit of Observers tracking them down.
    I think that the main reason for it is that we have 13 episodes of pure story, and not the procedural tipe where every episode has it's plot sturcture (don't get me wrong, I think that Fringe nailed it in both ways). It's like a one long episode that has it's own beginning, climax and ending, and I think that you can't put that in every episode.
    That's why the slowness is needed in the first episodes, IMO. After all, they only have 14 episodes (including LoT) to set up the scene, pack it with great action and resolve it in natural and logical way for the characters and the story. I believe we were only given a tiny portion of the things to come, and if sloweness (which I don't mind right now) is the way to set things up for an amazing finale, then I'll sure as hell take it :)

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  18. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 09:48

    I was thinking of Stairway to Heaven but Bohemian Rhapsody works, too - and yes, they have similar structures. :)

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  19. Scully713 October 2012 at 14:47

    I have had a revelation.
    The glyphs are spelling out our reaction to the episodes.
    First HOPE that we would embrace this new reset.
    Then FAITH that we will continue to embrace the new reset.
    Now ANGER 'cos we just want to see the dam thing in its entirety and not have to wait weeks to watch a 13 hour movie over the next 3 months with breaks for baseball of all things.
    RANT OVER
    I feel relieved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  20. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 14:56

    Lots of very good analysis in your post.


    However, this bit:

    "Any cruelty undertaken during war can be justified (remember Walternate's comeback to Fauxlivia in 6:02 AM EST "That's because you still have the luxury of your ideals. I have to be pragmatic.")."

    collided with my sense of rightness. I outright reject the notion that any cruelty undertaken during war can be justified. Ironically, I would use the same argument you used to make the point to refute it.

    "My critics believe that our humanity, our compassion, is what separates us from the likes of Windmark; but that is wrong. It's our FREE WILL that separates the two of us."

    Yes, it's free will that separates us from the lower animals, And that free will can be used to make moral choices. It's not enough that we can choose - WHAT we choose is what defines us. Which is not to say that acts of cruelty should not be undertaken - sometimes the end *does*, after all, justify the means - but the blanket approval for "any" cruelty is just as much a usurping of free will as anything else.

    If you absent the caveat that free will comes with the sidekick of morality, you cheapen free will and render it no more important than the ability to control your breathing or choose what to have for dinner.

    The point of free will, if I recall my Judeo-Christian theology, is to enable man to make conscious choices (particularly to love God, but the principle remains intact). In this case, the choice may well be to take the high road, to exercise the right (that free will gave them) to NOT act or to act only within a moral framework.

    YMMV.

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  21. Afino13 October 2012 at 14:59

    Great comment. You always put things so...eloquently. That said, I agree with pretty much the whole thing. I think the shortened season makes me think a little negative about this episode, but I'm sure it'll have its place in the end.

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  22. nellymendezcolon13 October 2012 at 15:01

    ..very flat episode

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  23. overandback13 October 2012 at 15:01

    Another episode of Fringe that went by too fast. I enjoyed the whole show. There might have been slower moments but I felt they were needed to build the story. The part about Astrid making the cell phone call and it being tracked was a little too predictable. I'm afraid she's in danger of being tracked down as point of origin. When the team gets back I wonder if she'll be there or not.

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  24. Totallyaddicted00513 October 2012 at 15:03

    Olivia thought/felt like she was a coward because she was afraid after Etta dissapeard and felt bad when peter called her strong, or Etta told her she admired her. But the quote says it best, its alright to be afraid thats not being a coward, Liv knew what had to be done when she saw all the missing posters she knew she had to go fight for everyone and she did it.

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  25. Scully713 October 2012 at 15:03

    I bring news.
    Gene is alive but,
    https://twitter.com/fringetoast/status/257084169744707584/photo/1

    She is been ambered.
    Poor Gene, another casualty.

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  26. 24fan13 October 2012 at 15:23

    I enjoyed it, again like last week even a weaker but solid episode is enjoyable to me but then again I'm easily pleased. Can't wait for the next one.

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  27. DarthLocke413 October 2012 at 18:11

    Don't have much time to discuss today, but I wanted to say that I really liked it.


    It didn't quite prove time displacement like the other episodes, but they did make a point out of Peter and Olivia's experiences, even though in this case there memories matched. However the idea that River had made/heard so many different stories about what happened when the Observers invaded, could still weigh towards time line convergences...


    I liked a lot of the references to other episodes such as Northwest Passage, Alone in the World, Johari Window, and a really minor reference to Over There Pt 1. Actually Northwest Passage is one of favorite episodes, because of it's emotional aspects (Find the Crack + a possible Vertigo Reference w/ Detective Ferguson), but because also we never come to understand how Peter could see bleed throughs of Walternate and Newton in the woods, and how it was they could cross over?!


    I love the idea with having this advanced almost Star Trek and/or Star Wars like room hidden underground with in this forest (It was a little reminiscent to Alcatraz especially considering River's father was named Edwin).


    Over all I thought it was another really emotional episode and I like the atmosphere of it so far.

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  28. dunmif13 October 2012 at 21:57

    You mean friday after next, right?

    5x04 airs on 26th oct :/

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  29. ShatteredOne13 October 2012 at 22:37

    Ya I wrote that before I saw the preview saying the next episode was in 2 weeks. Bastards! :(

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  30. Kaija13 October 2012 at 22:50

    This season of Fringe is going to left me emotionally unstable. I've never had such a moodswing like during those 42 minutes.

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  31. laura334113 October 2012 at 23:23

    Watching Olivia reach behind her to take Etta's leg,and Etta held her hand brought tears to my eyes (but hey,what doesn't!).I didn't get to see it all,hope its as good as the part i did see!

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  32. cmjamieson13 October 2012 at 23:29

    LOL. Yeah, I hear you.

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  33. Stupot81513 October 2012 at 23:34

    Another good episode. A tad slow. And too much time was wasted on the father and son we'd only just met and have no emotional attachment to. But I liked Etta a lot more in this episode now that she wasn't torturing defenseless guys into old age.


    When Olivia was talking about the missing posters...it seemed weird that they madee a point of saying that Peter couldn't see the posters? Was it that he simply had his back to them, Or did she have an alternate view of the wall or something? :-/

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  34. DarthLocke414 October 2012 at 01:37

    Good cultural matching quotes! I think to some degree Olivia could be perceived as a coward, but it depends on if any of us think Edwin is a coward, because basically he was willing to sacrifice himself and leave his kid behind for the greater good. The difference might be that Olivia said that she chose to believe Etta was dead and her choice to save others wasn't really because of Etta, which is why I think 'all paths lead here', because this is the time for Olivia to be soldier for all the right reasons.

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  35. DarthLocke414 October 2012 at 02:01

    I actually really loved the recordist, because not only did they as people combine elements from Alone in the World, Johari Window, and Northwest Passage, but the idea of having this diseased people who live in the thick of forest play both to sacrifice for 'the greater good' (for a better future) and to be able to not cave into destructive behavior, but rather attempt to preserve a record of humanity is a combination of pro humanism, Eastern Philosophy, and/or Utopian ideas.


    To some degree I agree with you that Free Will is about having a choice, but shows like this where we have a multiple universe family dynamic, makes one realize, we may not always have as many choices as we think, because we don't always have control on what others do, and/or how others can infringe on the choices we are sometimes force to confront, as I am sure we all have had to make choices we wished we didn't have to make. I think your point is valid in the sense that yes, we might have a choice to be better people, but I think even in the very physical sense, like Olivia being experimented on as a child, can have effects on one's behavior through life. Let alone this idea that we may be fighting with the fates of several previous incarnations of ourselves. It becomes a matter of evolution and when a cycle can break into a new one.


    I feel confident that this isn't about killing the Observers, because Observers are us, and there is good possibility IMO that in the time line of their creation they were created just as all Fringe cases ,in all the universes, in all the time lines, we have ever witnessed showed us, as some people were willing to kill innocent people in the name of progress. IMO it's about these characters coming to terms with the actions of what ever one of their early incarnates did.


    Of course I still think the amber time line is Bardo (ethereal plane) so what ever is happening here, I think could still be replied to another corporeal reality, as Eastern Philosophy has been mildly thematic and even this little nod back to Alone in the Word, implies that we may be dealing with "death".

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  36. phnxgrl14 October 2012 at 06:45

    I loved this episode they have the olds back!

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  37. HoH814 October 2012 at 07:53

    Thank u for the Glyphs....i been looking what they are saying every week but havent seen them till now.....can u post the glyph every week?...☺....

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  38. DarqueMode14 October 2012 at 08:53

    Right.
    Episodes like this I can often appreciate more after the season has ended and shown exactly how they fit into the larger picture..... I'm not sure this episode will be on every re-watch I do of Fringe however.. It just did not entertain me very much honestly.

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  39. DarqueMode14 October 2012 at 09:15

    IT will be interesting to see how it plays out. ...
    To fit your narrative of defeating the Invaders/ Observers by filling in their missing piece (ie compassion, love etc) I think Olivia has to almost be a "non-soldier". To me a good soldier does what needs to be done without second guessing and questioning everything along the way knowing that if they do their job right, the desired outcome will be achieved. They do not morally question everything like Liv tends to do. I think Etta is more the soldier, Peter too often times.


    I think Olivia is often times a coward, but only in the sense that she is afraid to accept her personal feelings. Which is why the last bit with her reaching back to touch Etta's leg was so poignant.

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  40. DarqueMode14 October 2012 at 09:18

    I think that's one area we differ in opinion about FRINGE - the Observers.
    I do not think they are us. I don't think they became what or who they are because of the lack of compassion or love or connection etc.... They may be the next evolutionary step of humanity, but I think it is an unnatural evolution due to genetic manipulation.


    There have been so many episodes that lead me down the path to genetic manipulation to create a better human I just think it is about more than the lack of certain traits that separates them from us.


    I do agree that the one of the outcomes of their evolutionary path (direct or indirect) is that they now lack certain "human" traits. I'm just not sure said traits were lost because humanity lost those traits on their own and it's through those traits that the Observers/ Invaders will be defeated.

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  41. DarthLocke414 October 2012 at 15:45

    I agree, but I feel like the Fringe fated universes is trying to find a way for her to progress by being both things simultaneously. Going with this idea that maybe all mothers are/can be soldiers and it's more about what anyone fights for and not the fighting itself, as it's natural for a mother (or parent) to want to protect their children, which is something that Olivia may not quite have yet lived up to, but could.

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  42. DarthLocke414 October 2012 at 15:56

    But they are advanced humans from the future of some time line. I agree there is a difference in the genetic modification of the species which could cause a physical difference, a separate species, but going to Fringe's Frankenstein references, I think the Observers are meant to be "humanity's children" (there are Battlestar References too) come back to haunt them. Frankenstein argumentatively isn't just a horror-love story about playing God, but the idea is more specific in that Victor Frankenstein didn't take responsibility for his actions and his 'child' made from dead criminals (and a scientist's brain, much like Newton the shapeshifter), was abandoned and left to it's own devices, in which the lack of love and kindness from others lead him to hate. IMO that is what this is about, but the difference is I don't expect the actual story to end in more despair with the characters not learning something, or in a place that doesn't have silver lining, as Bad Robot has yet to do that.

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  43. omabin14 October 2012 at 19:03

    I liked it, even thought it was a tad too slow for me. I do not crave action necessarily but 3 episodes in, I would have liked some. I love the family dynamics they have going on though, and every episode we get a chance to look into Olivia's messed up feelings about herself are always also amazing to me as Anna Torv does it flawlessly.

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  44. prpleight15 October 2012 at 04:00

    A quiet yet powerful episode. I adored the expression on Peter and Olivia's faces when they turned around an Walter's playing with the pot and trying to get out of going with them so he could...um...fulfill his prescriptions. :-) Loved the conversation between Peter and Olivia and her confession that she thought the loss of Etta was punishment. And Olivia grabbing Etta's ankle. I knew, from the moment Edwin said he was go that we'd end the ep with River taking over the archive but that didn't lessen the impact of that moment at all.

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  45. Scully717 October 2012 at 12:57

    I just noticed that someone grabbed a screengrab of those 2 Observers taking away that Donald guy and the one on the right looks like he is wearing Widmarks coat.
    Anyone else see that
    http://seriable.com/fringe-observations-5-03-the-recordist/

    Take a look it could mean something.

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