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POLL : What did you think of Fringe - In Absentia?

6 Oct 2012

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119 comments:

  1. Afino6 October 2012 at 03:12

    Not as good as last week. Would even venture to say it was just okay. I guess it serves as a setup to finding the tapes, but holding it to a higher standard with the final season, I'm a little disappointed.

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  2. Sarah!6 October 2012 at 03:19

    I loved the callbacks, lots of tension between Etta and her parents. It's sad but understandable. Olivia always wanting to see the best in people was so true to her character. And while she may have initially been wrong her certain faith changed his will. Etta needs to learn compassion and not see things so black and white. And we're going on a scavenger hunt for the tapes! Awesome. :D

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  3. DarqueMode6 October 2012 at 03:24

    - I loved the Harvard steam tunnels! XD
    The noisy pipes being a warning to the steam explosion reminded me of The Princess Bride where firespurts crackled before flaming inside the Fire Swamp......


    - Well that is one hell of an interrogation device and beats Sodiom Pentathol in my opinion!
    "An Angel Device?"
    "No, sorry I don't have one, but there's an app for that..."


    - Special guest appearance by Henry Ian Cusick's head.....


    Me likey dark Etta!
    I know I was supposed to be appalled by the lack of indecision over removing Radzinsky's (I mean Eric Lange's) eye, but I for one felt no apprehension. Not for a second. This is an ends justifying the means situation if ever there was one. Survival of the human race..... Hmmm. Yep, I will sacrifice one (or more accurately part of one) for the many without a second thought.


    Um, Liv honey, your emotional hardness has got you through more than one situation in the last 4 years and so has your emotional softness. Different tools for different jobs. The end.


    Bad Robot using incomplete tapes to confound and annoy its fans? Say it ain't so!
    Now we get to go on a Fringian treasure hunt! How exciting! XD


    I really like how this season is shaping up!
    I liked the episode a lot, but it was a step back from last week for me. A small step.

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  4. RobertAriadne6 October 2012 at 03:25

    I liked it better than last week, though I liked last week. We got a better sense of where things stand in this brave new world.


    Shame Simon got his head chopped off. I was so looking forward to seeing him again.


    Though Etta was acting rather childish, I essentially agreed with her torturing the Loyalist (great Lost callback with the casting btw). Things have changed in the lost 20 years, to quote an amazing song "This ain't no place for no hero". Olivia showing pity was weak, she should know not to trust traitors. The moral of the story was apparently "Our compassion is what separates us from them", but as we saw, Etta was on the mark.


    Last week we had the black market, now we have the eyes: Wyman's going all out on the Blade Runner stuff. Will Windmark's final monologue take place in the rain?


    Walter is FINALLY back. That line about feeding pigeons to the poor was hysterical. Though why would he go to grape Red Vines? Some thematic foreshadowing of a new purple universe? Who knows? He gave one hell of a motivational speech on the tape; should get John Noble doing army commercials.


    One thought, since Wyman mentioned in an interview the possibility of the child Observer from Inner Child returning: what if that child wasn't September, as we all thought... but WINDMARK? That would be a trippy twist worthy of Fringe...


    Everything on my mind at the moment. Talk more later.

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  5. David Fischer6 October 2012 at 03:28

    Better than last week.


    I was completely on Etta's side. Olivia was stuck in amber the whole time, and the world changed. The world and it's people can no longer be held to her standards. I had no problem with Etta torturing the guy, and wouldn't have had a problem with her handing him over the the resistance to extract information before execution or just plain executing him at the side of the road.


    I think my favorite thing about this season is the relationship between Peter and Etta. They just go so well together; without all of the angst that Olivia brings.

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  6. Totallyaddicted0056 October 2012 at 03:29

    A little dissapointed.
    I mean, Etta learning from her mother great.
    Olivia, Anna GREAT scenes.


    but... I think they def needed more character scenes lots of run around. I want to see more polivia and the scene with etta and liv are great just want more of that.

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  7. laura33416 October 2012 at 03:29

    Just have to say,because Olivia showed compassion,wanting to see the good in people,it change the loyalist mind,..and to some degree Etta....Darth,you were so right!!!!!

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  8. DarqueMode6 October 2012 at 03:34

    Agreed.
    I have never subscribed to the idea that "we are better then them, because we are sympathetic"..... It is just such a false rationality to me.


    The Observers are doing what they need to do to save their "people".... and humanity will do the same. We will just make comments to rationalize it more frequently! XD

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  9. Totallyaddicted0056 October 2012 at 03:38

    I'm with you. And its sad bc I wanted to love it.

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  10. Totallyaddicted0056 October 2012 at 03:43

    I like your idea that the Inner Child observer could be Windmark That is a cool twist. But what do you think about the observer at the elevator bank, He gave Peter a good long look, now that could be seen as just you know checking out the loyalists to as people, but I think maybe it could be something deeper like that was the Inner Child Observer. Either way it will be cool to see him come back!!! What are your thoughts on the the mother/daughter relationship in this episode?

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  11. DarqueMode6 October 2012 at 03:46

    I think you might want to start expecting more story and less character moments....
    I mean, I'm sure there will still be a lot of character moments (and there was in this episode IMO), but with a limited episode run they will really need to move the story along every episode.
    Personally, that's what I'm looking forward to - the storytelling of the final chapter.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Totallyaddicted0056 October 2012 at 03:46

    def a step back from last epi I just hope thats it for backstepping. We need to be going forward not back. I'm not sure of this scavanger hunt thing either, that can get old fast.

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  13. So Contagious6 October 2012 at 03:50

    I disagree about Olivia being weak. Yes, she was fooled easier than Etta, but as they said, she doesn't know this world. She doesn't know what people are like when things are this desperate. And in the end, her compassion, and the compassion she inspired in Etta, got them a useful ally and saved a man's life. And isn't that the same sort of compassion that saw through Peter's "I don't help/stay in the same place/like my father" bull and Walter's past behavior way back in the first season, and helped make them in the world-saving types they are now? The point of Olivia's storyline is not just that "natives" have compassion and the Observers don't, but that if you try to find something worth saving in people, occasionally you can find it. So yes, Etta was right about who the Loyalist was, but Olivia was right about how to treat him.

    Besides, that "Compassion is what separates us from them" is not a bad moral. The Observers are our future in the Fringe world, right? What if the natives losing their humanity, their compassion and emotions, is one of the steps they take towards becoming the Observers? I don't know how the time travel concept exactly works in Fringe yet, but the cruelty of the Observers might very well start with this takeover. What's the point of saving humanity if they just become like the things they're fighting against?

    Wow, I wrote a lot. Sorry for the rant, just my opinion.

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  14. DarqueMode6 October 2012 at 03:51

    t could for some people I'm sure. I don't think it will for me since there are just so few episodes left that the hunt cannot go on for that long to begin with.....
    I doubt ti will be every episode though... I hope not for your sake at least! XD

    Personally I like the structure that will give to the seasonal arc. Research and find the next tape, they will have a mission to complete and that will keep the story moving forward.

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  15. RobertAriadne6 October 2012 at 03:52

    They are worlds apart. Olivia is from a different time; she doesn't know what's happened and what has to happen to beat the Observers. She needs to channel her pragmatism, find her inner Walternate (not Fauxlivia, Walternate).

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  16. lichen26416 October 2012 at 04:17

    Thank you. I couldn't have said that better myself. I'm pretty sure the Observers used the same "ends justify the means" reasoning for going back in time and taking over our world in the first place. Keep in mind they are just human beings from the future...and maybe human beings losing their compassion is what started them down that path.

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  17. DarqueMode6 October 2012 at 04:19

    I agree with your first point on most levels, but not the second....


    For me our humanity is not what makes us human. It's just random evolutionary events that make us what we are.


    Interesting point about cruelty possibly leading to the Observer race. It could be part of what led to that evolutionary jump...I look at it differently though.


    Man evolved from one species or phase to the next until arriving where we are today at Homosapiens. To me the Observers are the next evolutionary jump of our species (for good or for bad). I see Humanity as the previous rung on the evolutionary ladder when compared to Observers, much like Neanderthals were to Cro-Magnons. Even if there was no direct monumental battle between them, Neanderthals did not survive versus the Cro-Magnons.


    If Humanity can survive past the Observer threat they will have overcome a possible extinction event. Whatever means achieve that goal are worthwhile to me.

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  18. thefreeair6 October 2012 at 05:14

    Contrary to common opinion in these comments about Olivia, I loved seeing her being who she's always been and have absolutely no problem at all with her resistance to Etta's methods. This is not a woman who doesn't "get it." She's never once hesitated to put her life on the line for the greater good (whatever that means), time and again sacrificing herself to save the world. It's who she is, and it gives her perspective weight. She puts her money where her mouth is.

    There is nothing weak about believing in people, especially if it motivates you to the do the hard work courage entails. I didn't really see a message of "compassion separates us from the observers" or any rationalizing of the kind. I saw an examination of why we fight the battles we do, and how we determine what's worth fighting for.

    A world of pure survival at any cost isn't one I'd want to live in (and, undoubtedly, I wouldn't!). Neither would Olivia - I mean, it's a pretty major part of her characterization that she needs to believe in people to do what she does.

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  19. ShatteredOne6 October 2012 at 05:27

    I agree with many of you that it wasn't as good as last week's but it was still great tv, we finally have a direction/plan to figure out a way to defeat the Obersvers. Poor Randinzky but good for him for choosing to fight, hope we get to see him come back later. And poor Simon, I was hoping we'd get to see him again in the future... that doesn't seem likely anymore.

    But as with every Fringe I am left frustrated at the end... because I want more! Can it be next Friday now?

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  20. ScottA6 October 2012 at 05:41

    I finally found Fringe online. Just finished watching the pilot. Story looks good and deep and they've got one of my favorite actors, Lance Reddick, in it. The WB website only has episodes 1-10 of season one so it'll be like an antique hunt I believe!

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  21. MeatyStakes6 October 2012 at 06:01

    Exactly. Love your post!


    Olivia has always searched for justice; she has always been a moral character, and it's in her beliefs that she finds the strength. It's not something as reductive to say that she is naive (even though it can manifest as such), she fights because she still hopes. She has an unbelievable strong moral core, she believes that the world can get better.


    And that is inspiring as f**k. I love that the themes is not "how we fight" but instead "why we fight". Call me sappy, but I love me some idealism. And in a setting where is the fate of humanity at risk against an external threat, it makes the utmost sense.

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  22. lichen26416 October 2012 at 06:47

    It's sad that a lot of people see Olivia's compassion as a weakness. Maybe you can argue that the end justifies the means right now but the people in 2036 appear to have lived so long without compassion and have taught their children that cruelty and killing is how you get what you need and survive in this world that even when they finally do take out the Observers how do you change a society that is that devoid of humanity? How do you come back from that? And what was the point in saving it in the first place when society has lost sight of its morals? Olivia is not the only one who has shown immense compassion on this show. Peter sacrificed himself to save the world, Walter was willing to let Peter die to save the world. The world would be gone and we wouldn't even have the Observer future to worry about if it weren't for our characters showing compassion. Compassion is especially important to hold onto in a world that has become so harsh and cruel. Compassion makes us human. Otherwise what makes humans any different than the Observers? I mean if you think about it the Observers are merely humans from the future maybe that's how they came to be that way. Maybe a society like this is where it all started. And as Walter said "what a miserable future." Speaking of Walter, he didn't approve of Etta's methods either. He called it "barbaric."

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  23. myrtus6 October 2012 at 07:55

    That wasn't as good as last week's episode. To me it felt like filler and I don't think they should waste time with so few episodes to go.

    I kinda liked the scenes between Etta and Olivia, but they exaggerated Olivia's perfection to the point I kept rolling my eyes, instead of enjoying the story play out. I'm team Etta all the way, warts and all. She's a very flawed character and therefore very interesting. I think she stole the show tonight.

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  24. Mutsie6 October 2012 at 08:51

    Being a Fringe Maniac, like the most of you :P , I think it was an awesome episode and the inter-action between mother and daughter was confronting and hurtful. I mean Mother being who she always was and is and daughter, the woman who will do everything and anything for freedom. A huge contrast and I could feel how Olive felt, the pain that Etta is the daughter she lost at age 3 and didnt recognize her. The woman who is full with anger towards the Baldies and Loyalists that she is even willing to torture... Something Olivia always avoid{ed} ... Even though a lot of people thinks that Olive is a softy I don't think so. Look what she accomplished without torturing the guy she could convince him to tell her where the powerthingie was. Yeah he might have lied to her but at the end he was willing to help the resistance... Thanks to Olive's compassion. "There was something in her eyes"... Yeah HOPE!
    ♥

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  25. Gary Bird6 October 2012 at 08:54

    Great episode, really enjoyed it.

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  26. Lou6 October 2012 at 10:35

    Another amazing episode, already enjoying this season more than S4. Loved Olivia and I'm glad Etta let the Loyalist go.


    Etta being hardened made perfect sense but also Olivia being compassionate was great as well. I think a part of Olivia never wanted Etta to be screwed up like she was by her own childhood, she didn't want the experiences to shape her daughter's present and future. Olivia understands how that can make you distant and cold and of course she doesn't want the same for Etta.


    Etta of course also had a point because she has been living in this horrible situation and she knows how people like the Loyalist act because she has seen it most of her life.


    So having two opposing opinions is good and you know that at some point perhaps Olivia will crack a little bit and lose hope but in the end Fringe has always been about love and the important of that and I think Olivia is representing that hope right now, all the times she has been damaged and scared by what has happened to her for once she is being the optimist and hoping for a better future.


    ++


    So upset about Simon, ahhh my heart is breaking.

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  27. laura33416 October 2012 at 12:14

    I'm so glad your getting into Fringe,its truly an amazing story and your going to love the characters! Fringe is going to The Science Channel starting November 20th so you can watch there if you want. I'll be watching when it starts even though i'm just about finished with my re-watch now.There is something about watching it on tv,commercials and all,i'm sure many other here will also be watching!
    The Science Channel is also having a Firefly reunion,should be a blast!

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  28. idleistic6 October 2012 at 13:14

    I agree with you and I like how Olivia is behaving, her mildness and patience towards her daughter. Some say Etta is taking a place that belongs to Olivia, but to me it is sort of a natural changeover, and perfectly in tune with Olive's humble character, even though she's always been the one in control . And some say that Georgina (who is great) is stealing the scene, but to me it's Anna who's an amazing actress and a generous person. Once again she's able to reinvent herself...She's outstanding!

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  29. 24fan6 October 2012 at 13:28

    Poor Simon, a mom and daughter eppie. I'm okay with that. and even a lesser episode is enjoyable to me. I loved it.

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  30. idleistic6 October 2012 at 13:33

    I disagree. I mean if you look at history, the cruelty that you're fighting often becomes your own if you let it. You'll forget the reason why you are fighting and once you gain the power you'll do the same thing. There's a safe haven of values we need to remember in order for humanity to evolve, the ones we already acknowledged on our long tortuous walk, otherwise fighting is futile to me . See George Orwell, Animal farm.

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  31. celine6 October 2012 at 13:45

    I enjoyed that episode,especially the olivia/etta scenes... Now we know from the pictures that Etta was raised by humans, that's a good thing, she wasn't raised by the observers. Now I wonder how they're supposed to find the first tape?

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  32. Lou6 October 2012 at 13:50

    Yes it is a natural changeover. Fringe has often been about the different generations the sins of the older with Walter and Bell, then Peter and Olivia (and the world) dealing with the consequences of that and now Etta is the next stage hopefully the one that gets a peaceful life in the end.



    I agree about Anna she has been amazing so far, just playing yet another version of Olivia this time a mother and someone who won't give up.

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  33. idleistic6 October 2012 at 14:17

    Right! ;)

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  34. Jim Fels6 October 2012 at 14:35

    You're going to love it. Even if you're thinking it's getting a bit boring, just keep watching. ;) You won't regret it.

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  35. cmjamieson6 October 2012 at 14:46

    That same observer also noted their arrival at Harvard - or at least he was aware of *something*. Definitely foreshadowing.

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  36. overandback6 October 2012 at 14:47

    Loved it. After two episodes I feel the stage is pretty much set for 2036. From here on in it's time to get right into the story.They have a lot to do with the time that's left, and I'll trust them to make the best use of it.

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  37. cmjamieson6 October 2012 at 14:57

    What about the address and the name, "Oscar" that the loyalist gave Olivia? Does anyone think this has significance? It was pretty precise (maybe just his own address and Oscar is his cat) but it was a dangling bit in terms of story threads.

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  38. TayaP76 October 2012 at 15:15

    Amazing episode! Love the way the Bishop family works together - everything they did just felt natural with their characters. Every scene was well connected, and we found out a few interesting facts, mostly about Loyalists and Science building, even though I still can't push the picture of Simon out of my head.
    For me, it was a great and strong episode.
    I love that Olivia and Etta were opposing each other - you can easily see that they are from a different worlds, and I'm glad they are pointing at the fact how cruel our world has become. But I must take Olivia's side on it, because I believe that, whatever situation you're in, the most important thing is what kind of person you are. And if they are succsesfully fighting Observers, but without compassion for anything, I wouldn't want that for them - I always thought that one of the most important things in Fringe are love and forgiveness and the fact that people can profoundly change for them, and I'm glad that they stayed on that path. So I'm hoping that they will stay true to their characters, even though it may cost them a lot.
    Impatiently waiting for the next episode!

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  39. TayaP76 October 2012 at 15:19

    "I didn't really see a message of "compassion separates us from the
    observers" or any rationalizing of the kind. I saw an examination of why
    we fight the battles we do, and how we determine what's worth fighting
    for.

    A world of pure survival at any cost isn't one I'd want to live in (and, undoubtedly, I wouldn't!)."

    Couldn't agree with you more, perfectly said!

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  40. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 15:39

    It depends...If all of the personas of Olivia (especially the blue Olivias) are about coming to terms with something that happened in an original time line, then Etta, her child, is the lynch pin for coming to terms with/getting over that. So their relationship is important. Even looking back to "August" it's clear that the Observers and humanity have "lost" perspective, as they can no longer LOVE and this is the point of the series, finding a better way to make progress, a way that doesn't involve blatantly killing people. Because despite all of Olivia's emotional reservations, her compassion and duty to save people still shines through.

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  41. cortexifan6 October 2012 at 15:41

    Epic, epic, epic. They are topping the previous episode. Stellar acting again and I laughed so hard when Walter was turning the lights out. Anna and Georgina rocked it.

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  42. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 15:43

    I agree and personally I think the episode actually had both and has not completely lost it's immediate story aspect, even though it is about the characters. I feel like we are getting the right blend, and even some of those things from season 4 are starting to kind of show themselves again here (time displacement). I feel very good about how it's going.

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  43. Totallyaddicted0056 October 2012 at 15:44

    Hi guys!


    I also sent this in audio b/c I know its long.

    On seocnd watch I think I understand it a little more. I'd keep the raiting the same but I am not as dissapointed in it. This episode was a foundation episode, which I didn't really look at before. What they were doing is laying foundation for the next episodes In the plot structure arc it is the next rung on the ladder climbing up toward the climax. As the Great writers of the show have said this is a 13 episode movie type season and I was expecting it to be as action packed and deep as the opener, which logically from a storytelling angle isn't the best. Every good story needs exposition. its what helps us understand the rest of the story. They made a lot of good little moves in this episode that will help us in later episodes.


    We understand Ettas disdain for the loyalists (emphasized by Simon's head in the lab and that loss)
    We understand Olivia's impact on the 2036 characters and her daughter
    The Bullet and its significance gets reinforced by etta squeezing it tight after giving up the chain.
    The gain of a converted loyalist to the Resistance.


    And the Unease between mother and daughter was amazing, I think that Etta has admired her mother if even in legend for who she is and what she's done. She knows a lot about them (her parents and the team) as shown in the scene as Liv drew that tatto on Etta.


    Anna Torv had done a great job with this role as well she does look more mature and I can deffinatly see her as a mother.


    I like how Etta calls them mom/dad, Im also a little curious how she relates to Astrid, this hasn't really been shown.


    I think that Ettas understanding of the world and hardening to the harshness is ultimately going to save our team because without them our team could be picked off faster simply because the ignorance of the new world. So as much as I didn't want to see her loose her innocence that she had as their daughter, its integral to the plot and the characters to keep moving successfuly through this new world.

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  44. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 15:49

    If you go back to "World's Apart" we see that Olivia can't just show deep love for red Olivia when the machine(s) overload...It tells me Olivia can't forgive herself for something, something the original Olivia has done....by seeing her daughter in a "soldier" role, she is ultimately confronting herself yet again. IMO this about coming to terms with loss of some sort, but the best part of herself is key to all of this, because underneath Olivia cares deeply for life.

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  45. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 15:51

    It couldn't have been a more perfect episode on the compassion front! Truly loved it. (:

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  46. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 15:53

    It was nice to go back to season 1 Walter with the hiding of important information/Objects, let alone the Swan (song) references!

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  47. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 16:06

    I think the purple is what is "underneath" all of this, as splitting apart purple would be red and blue! (:

    Old Theory (has some flaws, but the principal is the same)Somewhere over the rainbow: http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=22392

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  48. nellymendezcolon6 October 2012 at 16:19

    ..was OK.but the storyline was to short,very flat,little empty the plots already exist and we know each players & theres respective parts the good thin is that OLIVIA plant a seed of chance the future outcome and the solutions will be more different and the final scene prove that

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  49. lichen26416 October 2012 at 16:25

    Well that's weird... it must have logged me out or something when I posted this...

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  50. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 16:32

    Good thoughts!


    Oscar makes me think of "Oscar the grouch", winning an "Oscar", Oscar Wild (The Importants of Being Ernest/Picture of Dorian Gray), and Oskar Schindler (Schindler's List)....


    But Oscar mean "divine spear" (which is kind of an oxy moran) IMO it may imply the idea that humanity can use the spear for different things and that method of humanity is spiritually important to our own survival...

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  51. laura33416 October 2012 at 16:37

    Yes,it was a great episode!

    Who do you think Oscar is? Is what he told Olive & Etta a complete lie,or half trues and what is there at that address...could be all smoke and mirrors or ?

    I died when Walter did the clap on,clap off with the lights! At least we know his mind isn't totally fried!

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  52. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 16:37

    Go back to "August".--and remember Observers are humans (advanced ones). This about changing EVERYONE's perspective through the ability to love, but also about the cost of progress.

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  53. RobertAriadne6 October 2012 at 16:39

    Thought his name was Windmark.

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  54. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 16:48

    I responded to someone else about that above somewhere...I think we could meet an Oscar at some point (maybe Oscar is a machine or inventor!), but Oscar means "divine spear" and to me it's a message about "what one uses the spear for" in relations to spiritual aspect of survivor of the fittest. Some famous Oscars are Oscar Wilde and Oskar Shchiendler...

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  55. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 16:56

    It's not that we're better than them, because are us. So it's more like we have to give them LOVE (August) to change their perspective...--There may be something hereabout procreation that they are missing (as Olivia can finally live long enought to have a child)...We need women Observers and 'child observers' to make the world a better place...

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  56. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:19

    Agreed!

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  57. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:22

    Great Post! Where did you find this poster with Walter eating a grape pop?

    Oh Yeah,what a shame about Simon! I was hoping they would be able to get him out of the Amber and maybe be in an episode...but wait didn't they see him in amber?who got him out?

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  58. idleistic6 October 2012 at 17:26

    Something is definitely there...I'm sure.

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  59. TayaP76 October 2012 at 17:29

    Yeah, It's also interesting to watch Observers go back in time and fight with us, even though we are their past - their creators, I would say - and to see us strike back, fighting against 'us from future' for the better future. I guess that Fringe was always good at making these kind of paradoxes. It also depends on what kind of advancement you are reffering to - they are thecnologically much more advanced, but I think that Fringe proved in this episode that their inability for love and compassion, or even hate for that matter, might also be their greatest weekness.
    One of the things I got from the first two episodes is that they don't actually care for Natives, or Loyalists, but from themselves. Even Widmark instantly left Walter when he heard about air malfunction, even though he might suspected that it was a distraction. Maybe we are not talking about same Observers from S1-S4, because September said, if I recall correctly, that he was a part of the sceintific team, and maybe the way they saw our world was different because they had the opportunity to observe it, to actually engage in it, even though they weren't supposed to (August, Peter, The Firefly, etc.) Maybe this Observers didn't observe time like they did, so they don't have the ability to see every version of future, only to travel in time. Maybe that was the privilege that only September's team had. It could explain why they didn't already stopped the Fringe Team, or predict what could happen.

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  60. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:31

    They never made Olivia out as being perfect,her character never came across that way,at least its not the way i saw her..What i see in Olivia is compassion for others,regardless of who they might be...i think you confused compassion with perfection,maybe?

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  61. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:36

    Yep,just saw it.I was going to post but i starting reading your post then others,most saying what i would so i stopped,ha! Usually i don't read what others wrote until i post it,otherwise ....this happens! That will teach me!

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  62. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 17:49

    We probably were writing at the same time. No big deal, just explaining in case someone would get confused. (:

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  63. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 17:50

    It's another season 2 Wallpaper you could download for playing a glyph game!

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  64. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:54

    Me too! I'm wondering if it was something that could help them,something that the Observers have that they wouldn't want anyone to see,or get there hands on? I can't wait to find out what it or who it is!

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  65. laura33416 October 2012 at 17:59

    I love it!

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  66. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 18:00

    Fringepedia has it Windmark, you're right (thanks), but I have seen a lot of other people use Widmark before now (even TV LINE), which is what led me to "Kiss of Death"...since it is "Richard" that dies in LOT. (not that adding an "N" necessarily means their is no reference, but it makes it a little less noticeable)


    Maybe Wyman or someone set us straight!! But a "mark in the wind" is an interesting thought (:

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  67. Stupot8156 October 2012 at 18:05

    Etta being hardened is all well and good, and I can even see the justification for using that barbaric device on Lange's character... but, the way she reacted when she saw Simon's head was just stupid... it didn't show the "experience" she had just thanked Liv for acknowleging, she seemed like a drunk bitch trying to start a bar-fight. Other than that though, fantastic episode. I'm loving season 5 already.

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  68. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 18:19

    I think it actually points out all human imperfection...Olivia really can't be direct with Etta, because she knows she doesn't have the right to, she choose the rest of humanity over going to look for her. She hasn't been the mother she might have been, but Olivia by seeing her duagher in a similar role, is now forced to deal with this, and is like always is pushing others to be 'a better human being'.

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  69. myrtus6 October 2012 at 19:29

    Nope, I'm not confusing anything. Compassion by itself is just a positive trait and that's fine. I like a good mixed bag of positive and negative traits in a character. Olivia doesn't have any negative traits worthy of mention, so when the show goes overboard with her virtues, like in this case, it gets on my nerves. It's a question of personal taste. To me, Etta felt more human, while Olivia represented the moral stance of the writers, which is okay, but I don't have to like it in fiction, as much as I find it preferable in real life.

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  70. omabin6 October 2012 at 21:16

    It was so good. They are getting so dark this year, I loved that we felt the war and I loved the way they hinted that Olivia will be the saviour in the end. I love Olivia, she has been so good during these episodes, Anna Torv is incredible as usual!!

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  71. omabin6 October 2012 at 21:17

    Oh my Lost heart hurt like hell when I saw brother cusick hanging like that :S

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  72. DarthLocke46 October 2012 at 22:21

    Yes, but it might be because Observers are made from us..the reason for their creation is most likely a bad one, because of the lives it cost to make them. I am pretty sure this is about our characters coming full circle for what their original counter parts did....


    You see [blue] Olivia(s) keep dying before they can have children, it may represent a avoidance, or a morning of a loss as she takes the role of the soldier instead of the role of a mother ...The Observers so far appear as male clones, so it might reflect this idea that they need female and child observers to be better human beings...be better than your father, might be realized at the point one becomes one...

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  73. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 01:28

    Oh, about Simon, they said in 5x01 that the Observers had found them (Simon and William Bell)

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  74. prpleight7 October 2012 at 02:16

    I really liked this episode. It was much, um, quieter than several of the last few episodes. I liked that they took the time to explore this fractured family as they begin to get to know each other. I felt for Olivia, discovering what kind of soldier her daughter had become without her influence. Having seen the promo and having the ep start with Olivia's nightmare about losing Etta (man!! it appears the first thing the Observers did was grab all of the children. harsh, but I can see the effectiveness) I knew that one of the big questions is how will they become parents to an adult child they had no part in raising. I liked the answer.


    I was a little worried that Olivia would let the guy go...though i have to admit to having believed him about the kid. I wavered and then he gave Olivia the address and I thought she's right and Etta's wrong and then...whoops dumb me. :-) Did like that Etta let him go.
    Loved Walter in this. Felt really bad for him trying so desperately to regain his memories. The Swedish bit was a hoot, though.
    I had one pesky question...why didn't Walter leave directions to find the first tape. I'm guessing they played that part while the ep was cut away and they'll report the info next week but it really bugged me.
    Awesome ep.

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  75. laura33417 October 2012 at 02:18

    I was notified you left me a message about Simon and that the Observers found Simon and Bell. If they used Simons head they are probably using Williams head too.

    On twitter a few people said that Simon was alive,they said his eyes moved,i didn't see that did you?

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  76. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 02:31

    Ya!!! Simon's head was on some kind of electric grid-block (like a translucent circuit board) and his eyes moved! That's why it reminded me of Newton, as he was an unique shapeshifter who took the head of a famous scientist, "Newton", as his own, as Newton's head was cryogenically preserved.-That's why I am hopeful we could still see Simon again...perhaps that's how the Observers retrieve information?!

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  77. prpleight7 October 2012 at 02:31

    You reminded me of another question...why cut off Simon's head? What purpose does that serve the Observers? I know it was there to upset Etta...but it didn't seem to be there for any other purpose. A cheat imho. :-)


    That tape was the first time I've ever actually had a Lost thought while watching. :-)

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  78. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 02:34

    If you remember back to season 1 Walter used the Fibonacci sequence as a means to hide objects everywhere! I am assuming that he's reusing that method here, but I have to admit that I don't know how Walter would remember that given that his memories are somewhat erased/scrambled and that this isn't the season 1-3 Walter, so it may be Peter and Olivia who have to remind him of his possible methods...

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  79. laura33417 October 2012 at 02:48

    WOW! How did i missed that,i saw the head but i didn't see his eyes move! Ok so i have to watch it again,oh this is too much! Ha!

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  80. So Contagious7 October 2012 at 02:50

    That's practical, if severely depressing, thinking. But then why bother saving your species, beyond the propagation instinct? If humanity is nothing more than the base instinct to survive at any cost, no matter what depths we have to go to in order to achieve that goal, then why bother fighting the Observers at all? They did their mass extinction bit already. The survivors are useful to them (apparently), so be a Loyalist! Save your own butt, and those of your family and friends, by bowing to the new order. Humanity will survive just the same, albeit in a subservient role. Then we become Observers, losing our hair, taste buds, and sense of humor in the process - and possibly all the females, which counts me out entirely; although I'm not sure I want a future where I have no eyebrows or the ability to be amused by Community - then ruin the planet and go back to do to our ancestors what our descendents did to us. Like seniors who have way too much fun torturing freshman during freshman hell week because they spent their own hell week stuffed in a locker with their underwear yanked around their head.

    I agree that random bits of evolution made us what we are. But that doesn't mean that's all we have to be. I mean, why do we watch a show where the heroes are fighting to save their world when technically the danger to the populace at large (should they capitulate to the Observers) is mostly gone? They aren't fighting for humanity's survival - it may not a fun life, but humanity's still around and kicking. Sure, we could say they're fighting not to survive but to be back on top of the evolutionary ladder again, with all the security and benefits that come along with it (not answering to baldies with bad taste in food being benefit number one), but somehow I don't think that's why we root for the Fringe team. And it's not why the Loyalist in the episode changed sides (or seemed to). He joined up with the Observers to survive, which worked out for him. He wanted to help the Resistance because he saw a better future in Olivia's vision of the world - and again, I don't think it was because with humanity back in charge he wouldn't have to eat egg sticks anymore.

    And I've written another essay. Apologies for rambling. Again.

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  81. prpleight7 October 2012 at 04:07

    Regarding the idea of Olivia being weak. I would have agreed with you if she'd undermined Etta and let the guy go when Etta was out of the room. She didn't do that. Also, consider, that it's pretty much been found that, for interrogation, torture isn't the most effective technique. I think Olivia's intervention was why the guy gave up the information Etta wanted as quickly as he did. Good cop Bad cop. I don't think Etta would have gotten the information she was after as quickly as she did if Olivia hadn't played good cop. The fact that she meant what she was saying made it work.


    I didn't take the them of that sequence to be 'compassion separating us from them' I read the sequence more as 'this is what we're fighting for'

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  82. prpleight7 October 2012 at 04:19

    Except that I don't see the Observers trying to save their people. Everything we've seen in this "new world" looks to me like an effort to be able to maintain the life they were about to lose when they destroyed their world. There's an element of arrogance and selfishness in what they're doing that squarely plants them as bad guys. I think that's why we haven't seen any declarations or rationalizations from them. They're not 'doing what they have to do to survive' they're taking what they want because they can and we've seen no indication that feel this is what they *must* do. They want this therefore they will take it. If one of their "people" must be sacrificed so they can continue have what they want...I'd bet it would happen without a moments thought.

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  83. DarqueMode7 October 2012 at 05:39

    I took it mostly as to horrify Etta, but it could be for other reasons too.


    It does remind me of various "Bishop tech" used in the past. Being able to read a dead man's thoughts or see his last vision etc. Maybe ti was another way to remind the audience of the Observer tech seeming to be based on Bishop tech....

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  84. HoH87 October 2012 at 07:28

    the Betamax recorder was called that cause u needed a "Beta" tape to use it.....for u young ones, the Beta tape was invented before the VHS tape was made.....SO...the tape that Walter took out of the Betamax was a VHS tape much larger then the original Beta tape...so what gives?...did Production goof or what?....☺....

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  85. prpleight7 October 2012 at 08:07

    great post.....sometimes it takes multiviews to see all the layers. Everyone in my family thinks I'm nuts for re-watching my favorite shows but when the writing is this good and this subtle your emotional reaction (positive and negative) can cloud the other layers.

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  86. prpleight7 October 2012 at 08:09

    My first thought was that it was a trap.

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  87. prpleight7 October 2012 at 08:15

    That is an extremely interesting and, possibly, telling free form reaction to the name. :-D Love it!

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  88. prpleight7 October 2012 at 10:02

    I like the biotech idea. That works for me.

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  89. TayaP77 October 2012 at 13:50

    I agree that this will be a completion of our characters - how will they do that, I don't know, but I wouldn't be suprised that we end up in another timeline: the S1-S3 timeline, or even another one (maybe the exact timeline where Observers were created).

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  90. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 15:03

    It was creepy, like Jessica Holt creepy!

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  91. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 15:05

    Thanks!

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  92. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 15:09

    It reminded me of "Newton", as his head was cryogenically preserved scientists head named Newton. (Walternate wanted him for his intelligence to be eble to find away to get to the other side- make war)


    There are also episodes that detail getting information from people (John Scott, Jessica, Holt, John Mosely) in really disturbing ways, perhaps this is how the Observers can get the most information as Simon's head was on a type of circuit board!?

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  93. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 15:25

    But leaving her daughter behind to go save everyone else could be perceived as a negative trait, as it shows (much like avoiding an expression of deep love of her "inner child" counter part - red Olivia) avoiding motherhood...It's a contradiction on Olivia's behalf to say I can go and fight to save people (and not die for it, but amber myself), and turn around and ask you're daughter to have compassion.


    But that doesn't mean that Olivia isn't right now, just that who she is, is very complicated and it might require knowing who the original one was to understand her innate nature to protect people in relation to this avoidance of family (see The Day We Died for further emphasis), let alone Olivia's pat also reflect avoidance of family as she was experimented on, her left?, her step father an abusive jerk, and her mother died, and ultimately in season 1 she really can't be there for her niece and sister as saving the universe is more important.

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  94. laura33417 October 2012 at 15:36

    Yeah,but at least Jessica kept her body! :O

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  95. laura33417 October 2012 at 16:53

    Whhhaaaaaaaaaaaat,BELL? WHOAA! Oh sure,knock me over with that one,lol...Wow! That never even entered my head....

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  96. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 16:55

    LOL! Ya, but what's a body without a head! XD

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  97. laura33417 October 2012 at 16:56

    I would like to know how the bullet wound up in her hands,err around her neck too!

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  98. DarthLocke47 October 2012 at 17:32

    It most likely isn't the case, because I think Olivia would remember who her father was, although neither Peter and Olivia remember meeting each other, but it is sort of curious how her biological father hasn't really been mentioned much at all...

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  99. laura33417 October 2012 at 18:12

    HA! But whats good about a head w/o the body? Be kinda stuck in one place,oh even thinking about that is nasty,lol... :D

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  100. laura33417 October 2012 at 18:17

    It might be double posting on you but not here.I only know what you said because Disqus notified me by email.

    Why doesn't she remember her farther,even in 3.19 at the very end Peter looks at the drawing she made,(which was her farther) when Peter asked her who that was she said she didn't know but she thought that was the man who is going to kill her...... I thought that was her farther??

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  101. ATA7 October 2012 at 19:22

    Etta is so like peter. Loved how she said that's not gonna happen sweetheart reminded me of the pilot episode when peter called Olivia sweetheart.

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  102. prpleight7 October 2012 at 23:57

    I see your point. It makes a lot of sense. But wasn't Walternate a different kind of guy after Peter was plucked from reality? Or perhaps the tech et al. existed but the attitude and approach remained the same?

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  103. David Galli8 October 2012 at 00:44

    no, look closely, it is really a betamax tape =)

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  104. DarthLocke48 October 2012 at 00:54

    Yes! There are role shifts between the time lines and the amber time line points out the "directness" of William Bell, by allowing Walternate to not have a reason to be "vengeful", but if we go back to Over There pt.1 and 2, Walter flat out accuses Bell of playing both sides as Shapeshifters and other tech were all of Bell's design. He basically helped Walternate prepare for war. If you think about Momentum Deferred Bell just shoves Olivia out the window and insists she must be this warrior, If you look to LSD, Bell invades Olivia's body and they have to find Olivia to push Bell out. He constantly "Mr. X" because it's his work that is pushing various people, including this time himself to destroy the universe(s) and threaten Olivia'(s) life/lives.


    All these things just don't make absolute sense, unless we assume that the Observers and other events in the the time line they were created accumulated because of some other version of Walter and William Bell, as Walter and Oliva (blue) play to the redemptive quality of unforeseen consequences...

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  105. HoH88 October 2012 at 03:01

    I did look closely...very closely.....a Beta tape is smaller then a person's hand and a VHS tape is larger then a person's hand.....and this tape was Larger then Walter's hand....so unless Walter's hands are King Size, which i doubt, lol...the tape he took out was a VHS not a Beta and i guess the Director goofed up....☺....

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  106. myrtus8 October 2012 at 05:20

    She didn't express deep love for red Olivia, because she didn't feel any.

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  107. TayaP78 October 2012 at 10:05

    I'm sorry for interrupting, but wasn't that a drawing of that 'Mr. X' guy, the one that we saw in the zeppelin on the way to Jacksonville?

    While being in Olivia's mind, Peter saw Olivia's stepfather two times: on the street in New York and when he was in their house in Jacksonville; and there's this other time when her stepfather was chasing little Olivia and Bell with a full army behind him.
    I though that Olivia made the drawing of the guy Peter encountered in zeppelin, and when he asked her about him (at the end of the episode) she said: 'I don't know. I've never seen him in my life, but I think he's the man who's going to kill me.' (Or something like that) And in S4 finale, we find out that he was actually Bell, through the nanites that Walter observed.

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  108. DarthLocke48 October 2012 at 14:01

    Yes, but how could someone not care for like a twin sister? She tried to tell Red Olivia to keep looking for rainbows and said she admired her, so she did "accept" her, but just not openly.

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  109. DarthLocke48 October 2012 at 14:38

    IWyman confirmed that Mr. X is Bell at the end of season 4. In Olivia's mind-scape we can assume "many" truths of the Olivias are hidden there in layers and not just the immidiate truth of this Olivia...Mr. X appears in the Zeppelin but it's on the top of Bell's building (or the twin towers presumably since that part od Olivia's mind scape caters to her experiences in the red universe)


    So yeah, Taya is right, Laura it is Mr. X she draws (in "Subject 13") and there is no direct correlation with her father. It's only my theorizing since at Olivia's Christmas dinner her family is all present, but we have yet to ever meet or know much about Olivia's biological father (same as Rachel's husband/Boyfriend).


    But Mr. X also is a segway to Theological terrorists as well since We have the likes of Jones, Meana, Monroe, s1-3 + Pre-future Walternate, Comics have Mr. ZFT, ec, but they are all at the expense of Bell's work, as Walter fights back against it.

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  110. DarthLocke48 October 2012 at 14:42

    Yeah! (:

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  111. laura33418 October 2012 at 14:56

    How did i get it so wrong?.......and i only saw that episode 3 days ago,i thought it was her farther.....*shrugs,and shakes head*

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  112. DarthLocke48 October 2012 at 15:07

    Hey there's a lot of information in these episodes. It's quite hard to keep all straight. There are days where I totally get things wrong too and I find myself going back to transcripts all the time. :p

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  113. laura33418 October 2012 at 20:20

    I guess it depends on the size of your palm?

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  114. prpleight8 October 2012 at 23:55

    hmm. Jinkies! I keep forgetting about William Bell (who was revealed to be a major nut job. :-) Part of it is, I think, because I've convinced myself that his import will lessen because I don't think they'll be able to coax Leonard Nimoy out of retirement again. BUT they have his hand. If I toss that onto what you're saying here...my confusion/questions about why Simon's head is in that room disappear.

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  115. DarthLocke49 October 2012 at 00:10

    Yeah! XD I don't think we will be fortunate to see him again either, unless they pre-filmed some scenes, or 'video memorabilia' or something...He'll probably just be mentioned...although it's sort of weird they took both Bell and Simon, but they didn't bother to show us a CGI-ed Bell at all! :O

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  116. laura33419 October 2012 at 00:33

    Check out my fb page,fringe,fan favorite cover...its time to vote!

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  117. prpleight9 October 2012 at 07:41

    I think Bell (or his hand) will figure in during the last few eps. At least that was the assumption I've been going on.

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  118. DarthLocke410 October 2012 at 18:12

    I had another thought about Oscar or Oskar too....


    A separate note going back to Oscar or Oskar....I do think we might actually meet one that the loyalist left that address behind for a reason...Because it was Eric Lange who gave the information I could see a parallel between his former lost character and this possible Oscar character, with somebody with advanced tech like a time machine....but as I am writiing my Revolution review and being pushed by The Stand References and The Plague Dogs in conjunction to aggression that some of the non main cast are in acting, it brought me Alias large scale Mueller Device, which caused people to become aggressive, as it's a type of biochemical weapon...It turns out Rambaldi's device, because it was brought to life by modern scientist, was named after him and not Rambaldi, as it is referred to as the Mueller Devise after OSKAR Mueller. (Last year I was also reminded by this because the S4 finale was originally thought to be called "End Game" another Alias references as the Mueller devise related to the Bee's been turned arratic = 'bee hive mind")

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  119. arun27920 January 2013 at 19:49

    Catching up to Fringe now. :D This was a really nice episode. :)

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