Yesterday proved that Castle looks a legitimate challenger for the title with a smashing victory over Desperate Housewives whilst The X-Files and Buffy were neck and neck for the entire day before Buffy edged ahead at the pivotal moment. Both shows scored a strong amount of votes, suggesting that Buffy's win was impressive enough to stand it with a decent chance at progressing much further into the competition
Today sees Criminal Minds challenging Hawaii 5-0 in a police procedural battle, whilst the island takes on the company as LOST and Heroes battle out for the chance to make it into round two.
If you want to see the draw for the rest of the competition, and see which show will take on which other show then head HERE for a look. Let the voting begin!
Criminal Minds vs. Hawaii 5-0
Channel: CBS
Series Run: 2005 - present
Major Emmy Wins: N/A
Major Emmy Nominations: N/A
Channel: CBS
Series Run: 2010 - present
Major Emmy Wins: N/A
Major Emmy Nominations: N/A
LOST vs. Heroes
Channel: ABC
Series Run: 2004 - 2010
Major Emmy Wins: Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series - 2009, 2007. Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series - 2005. Outstanding Drama Series - 2005.
Major Emmy Nominations: Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series - 2010, 2007, 2006. Outstanding Drama Series - 2010, 2009, 2008. Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series - 2010. Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series - 2010, 2008, 2007, 2005. Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series - 2010, 2009, 2007, 2006, 2005.
Channel: NBC
Series Run: 2006 - 2010
Major Emmy Wins: N/A
Major Emmy Nominations: Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series - 2007. Outstanding Drama Series - 2007. Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series - 2007.
All posts for the competition will be under the label "2012 Series Competition" for easy finding, and can be found in the "features" tab on the main menu bar from the homepage.
You can also keep up to date with the competition by following me on twitter @AdDHarris
I've created a # for the show on twitter, which is #STVSeriesComp so add that to your tweets!
For now, get your vote in, spread the word on Twitter and Facebook, then comment below with who you want to see win! Remember to come back tomorrow as round one concludes with Sherlock taking on Dexter as well as The Sopranos vs. Moonlight. You don't want to miss that!
Competition Bracket and Shows Left Standing
(bold indicates show is through to next round)
Alias
Arrested Development
Battlestar Galactica
Breaking Bad
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Castle
Charmed
Criminal Minds
Dexter
Doctor Who
Firefly
Friday Night Lights
Friends
Fringe
Game of Thrones
Gilmore Girls
Grey's Anatomy
Hawaii 5-0
Heroes
Homeland
House MD
How I Met Your Mother
LOST
Moonlight
NCIS
Nikita
Once Upon a Time
Prison Break
Pushing Daisies
Sherlock
Smallville
Supernatural
The Mentalist
The OC
The Sopranos
Veronica Mars
Good Luck,
Adam
It's all about LOST today for me :) Greatest show ever made. Epic TV...
ReplyDeletethe first poll ..WOOOW..i like both shows but i vote for hawaii for support in the second this is a unfair fight lost will won by a mile then i vote for heroes
ReplyDeleteLOST all the way, brilliant show. Don't watch either H5-0 or Criminal minds so not too bothered about that one.
ReplyDeleteI had to stop and think for this one.
ReplyDeleteWound up going with CRIMINAL MINDS because, as much as I love Hawaii Five-0, there were quite a number of 5-0 eps where my attention wandered during the second act. Generally I would be drawn back in by some twist or them figuring out what's really going on. Criminal Minds has had a couple of eps that weren't my favorite but it has my full attention when its on.
LOST - I loved the first season of Heroes. But my interest waned through the second season until I finally stopped watching. With Lost I may have had some issues occasionally, I was interested enough to stick through the entire run of the show. Plus any Sci Fi show whose character work is awesome enough to draw in viewers who don't like genre television is doing something right.
I'll have to go with Criminal Minds and Lost.
ReplyDeleteCriminal Minds was outright awesome
And Lost while the last seasons were a bit shaky, was still way above the mess that is heroes S2 till the end of the show. There's a reason why Tim Kring no longer gets tv show projects or why Heroes mistakes like defying the finality of death, retcons and crackship romances are regarded as the main guidebook of WHAT NOT TO DO in a tv show.
LOST!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSame as you, but Daniel Dae Kim is a main role on H5-0, so this is it!
ReplyDeleteLost and H50. (Although it was hard to choose between that and Criminal Minds.)
ReplyDeleteLost and H5-0..
ReplyDeleteHow could anyone compare Heroes to Lost? S1 of Heroes was good but quickly and painfully fell apart in S2.....
Criminal Minds is good no doubt,but its also a pretty sick show which always creeps me out to the point where i hardly watch it anymore.. So its H5-0 for me!
H50 and Lost
ReplyDeleteHawaii 5-0 and Lost.
ReplyDeletelost!!!!!!!!! my first tv show...<33333 i'm rewatching it these days:))))
ReplyDeleteCriminal Minds and Lost.
ReplyDeleteMy obsession with Hawaii (which is thanks to Lost) blinds me from even considering Criminal Minds.
ReplyDeleteAnd since my handle on spoilertv is Dharmalager, you can't really see me voting against Lost, can you?
criminal minds and heroes!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteDon't watch Criminal Minds, so first poll was easy to decide for the fantastic landscapes of Hawaii and witty scenes of Hawaii Five-0.
ReplyDeleteHearoes Season 1 was great, but overall LOST is still the TV series which egnighted my fandom for long-running Drama series and opened my eyes to the fantastic online-community who also delved into this series.
for you maybe, but definitely not my taste!
ReplyDeleteCome on, David Sanders from Alias wasn't that bad in S2 of Heroes. ;)
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I'm totally on your level. :)
i feel like i should be insulted by that lol
ReplyDeleteu dont watch either show, i just chose the ones ive seen at least twice
Come on! ;) Do you mean David Anders? I love that guy since Alias! :)
ReplyDeleteAs I meant it, I can respect your opinion but am totally on the other sides for both polls. lol
ReplyDeleteArgh...somehow the name Sander stuck in my mind from something different. lol Yeah him, who has appeared a few times on OUAT now. His first scene in Alias still has to be one of the best entrances of a baddie ever! :)
ReplyDeleteLOST...LOSTTTT... NOT-Heroes... LOST.
ReplyDeleteBecause, I mean... LOST.
(Even if I had hopes at the beginning that it would be the next awesome show on tv...it probably had the best effects I've ever seen on a tv show...)
This is the first one that has been hard for me because of general disinterest in most of the shows. Loved Criminal Minds in the beginning but after Mandy Patinkin left I gradually lost interest. I want to like 5-0 but if there's something else on I end up watching that instead. I kinda blame CBS for making it so you really have to watch their shows on TV as they air, since it isn't destination TV I end up missing it with no way of catching up.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Heroes vs Lost? Hard to really pick which one I disliked less, but I'm going to go with Heroes for lack of pretension and at least showing some semblance of cohesive storytelling. Tough vote today.
You had me going nuts looking up David Sanders,ha till i finally realized it was Anders! :0 Yes he plays the doctor now on OUaT,i liked him much better on Alias,he doesn't really have much of a roll,nothing that he can sink his teeth into...too bad to,he makes sure a good badass!
ReplyDeleteCriminal minds and heroes
ReplyDeleteumm,now which one did you go with? lol.....
ReplyDeleteI don't watch procedurals, so no vote on that matchup (tho I tried H50 cuz of the Lost and BSG connections, but gave up after a handful of eps).
ReplyDeleteI began to hate every single character on Heroes by the end of S2 - too bad, it started out pretty well.
So... Lost - duh.
It's almost not fair to Heroes to be put up against Lost, LOL! Lost will be vote every time (unless it's against SPN).
ReplyDeleteI like H50 now but I use to LOVE Criminal Minds in the early days. I ended up voting for Criminal Minds.
I agree about Lost vs. Heroes but H5-0 is the show I watch to put me to sleep (despite my affinity for Alex O Steve C.) on Mondays. It is often the last thing from the week on my DVR. But to each their own and all that.
ReplyDeleteUmmm, he has Touched on FOX.
ReplyDeleteWow, what a grand statement.
ReplyDeleteCriminal Minds without hesitation and of course Lost!
ReplyDeleteLost gets it.
ReplyDeleteIt kept one's curiosity alive right to the very end. Definitely one of a kind!
The only criticism I can make is that some of the flash- back episodes on the characters were occasionally a little boring.
Heroes started off well but sort of tripped over its own feet and went down with a bang!
Don't like any of the other two.
I use to watch CMs the first couple of years.After Mandy P. left something change,i don't know if they got new writers but the stories became more violent,i felt as if i was reading a horror book the way most of the characters tortured their victims.After awhile i was repulsed by it all,so i tuned out....I wouldn't compare H5-0 to GOT,or Homeland,but its alright,its good enough for me on a Monday night.
ReplyDeleteLOST is the only show today I've seen very much of. I didn't like it. My only vote today goes to Heroes.
ReplyDeleteWhile I wasn't as turned off necessarily to the violence, I do think Criminal Minds shifted with Patinkin's loss. I'd say it went from feeling really cerebral to feeling more visceral. Maybe they ran out of different serial killer mentalities and had to switch over to actions.
ReplyDeleteSeriously? Greatest show ever made? I completely disagree with this. IMO, nothing, from characters to story arc, is proper in this show. For instance, how on earth can anyone justify Kate's character? Her character, thoughts and actions gets changed from episode to episode. Does this happen on any other show? I would love to have a fair debate with LOST fans about a 100 things in the show, but so far, I didn't find a place for that. Hope this is the one.
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch Heroes, but I am voting against LOST.
It was great in its first five seasons. I would certainly consider it in the pantheon of the all-time greats if it had been cancelled after five. The sixth season is the one that sucked. If you are looking to debate someone about the merits and drawbacks of Lost, I would be willing to take you on.
ReplyDeleteAnd about Heroes. I watched it; and although the first (and best) season was good, the last three were terrible. Since you are particularly sensitive to jerky character development, I would definitely advise you to avoid it.
Well, then you should start watching again because they have toned that way down (IMO) and it's kind more about the crime solvers than the crimes now, which is what has actually made me less of a fan. I don't know how old you are but I'm 25 almost 26 and my generation has been bombarded with torture porn (Saw, Hostel, House of Wax remake, etc.) so I'm kind of desensitized to all of that and anything on network TV is so bland that I don't find the crimes all that gruesome. But the writing has indeed been on the decline. But the relationships (in the office) always kept me going. The chemistry seems to be diving off as well.
ReplyDeleteI would like to tell you a few things and you decide whether to debate with me or not:
ReplyDelete1. I finished watching entire series in 6 weeks recently
2. I am gonna debate comparing it with my favorite Supernatural 1-5 seasons. (I don't say its perfect but still my top favorite)
3. Nothing in LOST, really pleased me, except the episode "The Constant", a few scenes like the 'peanut butter' scene etc.. in the first season, might be a few here and there.
I just mentioned an example in my previous comment. There are a wide array of things to debate besides character. I don't really point out characters in particular, but I might use the faulty character development in my defense at times.
And, I don't remember what exactly happened in various seasons of LOST, so let me take a quick look in Wikipedia. Will be back in 15 minutes or even less.
Hawaii 5-O and Lost.
ReplyDeleteNow mind you I never really watched Lost or Heroes BUT I did try. Heroes never could capture my attention, Lost I made it much longer before I got bored and changed the channel.
Lost and H50 for sure. I was a fan of Heroes but it got a little weird in the end and just really fell apart. I like Criminal Minds but it's a little out there. Maybe it's just me but... are their really that many serial killers out there? That one should be close.
ReplyDeleteEasy vote today. Watched a few CM eps and it's good, but H50 is more fun, so H50 wins there. And in the second pairing, Heroes was for me good only in S1 (which I loved) but went awry later on and I dropped it after a few eps into S3... Lost winner easily
ReplyDeleteToday is the first day that has put two shows I like against each other, lost and heroes. I felt kinda bad voting against heroes but, even with an awesome season one, it could not compare to the epic was that was lost.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also voted criminal minds which I love
Oh this was hard, but had to choose H50. Sorry CM, as it is a quality show, but H50 has come into it for 2 seasons, and has been brilliant. Tough though.
ReplyDeleteYou ever tried watching CM? I only got into it this month, and I honestly think it is brilliant. Do agree with your opinion of H50 though, absolutely brilliant.
ReplyDeleteForgive her, she knows not what she does.
ReplyDeleteDahne, think about this:
Heroes was a story that was trying to capitalize on LOST's formula...but it was so terrible that everyone bailed on it...And then it continued for 4 whole seasons of nothing but unwatchable drivel. A waste of a good cast if you ask me. I have many problems with LOST, and I am most certainly not their number#1 fan, but anything is better than what Heroes became... Ughhh.
Whether or not Lost is the best show ever made, it is still miles beyond the mess that was Heroes.
ReplyDeleteOh please. I know exactly what I am doing. I'm voting against a show that is going to cakewalk all the way into the Elite 8 because it's in the easiest section of the whole bracket. :-P It's true I haven't seen much of Heroes and I'm sure it will probably fall apart into complete drek that will try my patience when I get there. However I know for a fact that after watching 2 seasons of LOST (and misc other episodes I was forced to watch when at other people's houses) my patience was tried by writers who kept adding question upon question without ever answering anything until I became convinced that they had no clue what was going on in their own story either. It was bad X-Files memories coming back to haunt me. Faltering under the weight of your own mytharc is a classic genre show catastrophe and for me is the number one reason why when people get burned by one genre show they often don't want to try another.
ReplyDeleteI actually think Heroes was trying to capitalize on X-men.
ReplyDeleteHahaha, sorry for your confusion. Yeah, compared to Sark, his role as Doctor is very boring and doesn't show what he can do.
ReplyDeletenope I haven't and so far am not the type for Police Proceduals. My list is long enough with shows I have to mainline like Mad Men, Justified or How I met your Mother.
ReplyDeleteHawaii Five-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJust H50 for me to today.
ReplyDeletelol Still not as bad as Heroes.
ReplyDeleteGood point on that.
ReplyDeleteNext year after I have finished Heroes, I'll probably agree and then I won't vote for either show. :-)
ReplyDeleteI stopped watching CM three years ago, it's just too warped. My vote goes to HF-0, with the lovely and talented Alex O'Loughlin, who incidentally, was in the only CM episode I cared about. It was "The Big Wheel" episode in 2009. He was tragic and brilliant !!!
ReplyDeleteLOST is among my Top Five favorites shows ever to grace television, and even if I didn't thoroughly love all six seasons, just the perfect first season of LOST is infinitely better than the train-wreck that Heroes turned into after it had a really great first half of a first season.
ReplyDeleteCriminal Minds also gets my vote. For a procedural, it's the only one I can stomach to watch when I'm bored and have nothing else to do. Love the characters. They're fun.
I also think LOST is one of the best TV shows ever created, but I also watched in real time and I think that might have something to do with it. While it probably is easier to follow watching back to back, sometimes I think there's a benefit to having that week between episodes, and the summer off. I wasn't online when I watched LOST, or at least wasn't on any LOST-themed message boards, so I didn't get involved in any of the mystery stuff. For me the show was strongest in character, I actually think it had many amazing character growth/arcs (maybe not Kate, but I loved her anyway) compared to almost any other show. Character was what it was about for me, anyway. I'd love to debate about LOST if I can get away from packing long enough to check in. :)
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch that anyway.
ReplyDeleteYou say, LOST is the strongest in character development. Can you please explain me, the character growth of Benjamin Linus, a hardcore criminal in the first season and a stupid in the 6th? What about Sayid? And yeah, what about our doctor Jack, I am sorry to say, who cries for no reason, in every flashback? Let me give you a suggestion. Just, watch all the character-based episodes of any character on LOST(For instance, watch all Sayid - centered episodes all at once). May be then you will understand, what I am trying to say.
ReplyDeleteI am asking you only about characters because you posted that character development is the strongest in LOST.
I remember reading an interview with one of the writers of LOST and he said that, most of the time, it is the character development discussed that is discussed in the writer's room of LOST than story-arc of the show
wow, sounds like you really, really, did not like the show! lol. Actually, Jack is my favorite character, followed by Sayid (or rather early seasons Sayid) and Desmond. I have never watched any of the show out of order of the seasons (except for watching The Moth, which is probably my favorite episode of LOST), and have only ever watched the show in order when doing a series-rewatch (like I do with SPN, too). I definitely don't think all the characters show growth (and I despise Benjamin Linus, I don't think his character grew much at all so I can't address your point there!!), but the ones that show the most growth over all the seasons (which IMO were Locke, Jack, Charlie, Desmond, and maybe Sawyer, and Jin) were given a lot to do. As for directly addressing Sayid's growth - I think he had a lot of character growth and change in the first season, and a little bit more after that - but it did wane, then stall altogether by the end, which was disappointing.
ReplyDeleteit'd be an interesting experiment, to watch all Sayid's episodes at one time (or any one character's episodes), and I wonder it it would affect my opinion; I was a faithful, devoted LOST fan from the moment the pilot aired and that never wavered. I don't think I can go back, and I don't think I will change my mind, and I think I have placed LOST somewhat on a pedestal. I can absolutely recognize it's weaknesses, but I still love it so, so much.
I was interested in the mytharc of LOST, but that's not why I watched the show, so if the writer's said they focused more on character, that's likely why the show resonated so much with me! I enjoyed the mystery, but I also didn't really care that there were more questions than answers, because it only made the way the characters interacted with each other more interesting.
Um...did I address your points? This is fun, I haven't spoken about LOST for awhile! :)
It's true I don't like the show at all and I am glad, unlike many others you took my hatred in a positive way. Would love to continue this debate with you. Do remember, I suck at English and also at times may get extreme, because, my knowledge of English vocabulary is relatively less and hence, I most of the times speak "black" and "white" but don't know how to speak "grey", if you can understand what I mean.
ReplyDeleteDesmond Hume is one of the two characters on the LOST I don't hate. I think all the other characters are some or the other way flawed, IMO. I am sorry to say, but your favorite John Locke, I would call that character, "cockroach" who is ready to scavenge left overs. That beautiful lady in LOST, who later becomes wife of Sawyer, forgot her name, I like her but I don't really understand, why is she introduced in the first place.
Now I understand why you like LOST. The difference between you and me is, you can excuse flaws in mytharc, but I can't. I don't really care about characters and their interactions(Supernatural is an exception), but as far as this show is concerned, most of the times actions of the character don't add up with what they have done in the past or what they are going to do in the future, which is unacceptable to me. I didn't really pay much attention to interactions but I think they are good, based on what you said. I am not telling you to change your opinion but just watch the episodes out of order, like watch all John Locke episodes together - I have watched this show in 6 weeks so I had a different effect on my mind than most of you do. To have a similar effect, I suggest you to watch the episodes together. Anyways, unlike me, you are tolerable to some mistakes.
Well H50 is a police procedual...
ReplyDeleteI understand. LOST is certainly not a show everyone loves!
ReplyDeleteDesmond was a great character, and I enjoyed his introduction and what he did/the effect he had on the other characters through the series. And the woman you refer to is Juliet...another character that I actually despised in the beginning, but towards the end she got better (loved her with Sawyer!).
I think you've mistaken John Locke and Jack Shepard in my comment; I actually am not a fan of John Locke. I actively disliked him for 90% of the show but his character had a great journey! Jack Shepard, who is certainly flawed, but who would also be considered the "hero" of the show, was my favorite and though I hated many things he did over the course of the show, I just couldn't help loving him.I thought he had a great journey (though I hated how his story ended!) :(
I honestly think that a person's perspective and opinion of a show is not only formed by the show itself but by when and how it is seen. Watching the whole of LOST over the course of six weeks, versus the six years it took for me to watch it live, most certainly affected your perception! I'll have to take you up on the challenge to watch certain episodes grouped together. LOST was also very unique in what it tried to do, when it first aired. It was after the success of the early seasons that other networks tried to copy the formula of the larger mystery, to less than stellar results.
As for mytharc versus character...sometimes I find it hard to define what it is about a "thing" that makes me love it. But with LOST, and also SPN, it's 100% all about characters. If I didn't love Sam and Dean as characters it wouldn't matter how fascinating the mystery/myth surrounding them was (and conversely I can forgive crappy mytharcs when the characters are strong and fleshed out); but the mytharc(s) in SPN did draw me in because it was/is specifically character driven. On LOST the mytharc was in a large part independent in a lot of ways of character (simply due to there being so many characters). I don't know if that makes sense to you (I don't know if it makes sense to me! haha), but even if the mytharc in SPN was terrible (as it kind of was in seasons 6, 7) I will never stop watching because I simply love Sam and Dean as characters. And I feel the same exact way about LOST.
Fun discussion! Thanks!
Regarding Supernatural and LOST, I would compare Supernatural to GTA Vice City and LOST to GTA San Andreas. One had better missions and other had better graphics.
ReplyDeleteYou won't hear me calling Lost the greatest show of All-Time (esp. considering my favorite show is the X-Files), but voting Heroes over Lost is kind of insane to me. First off, it's a free country - but for me, Lost was one of the great television experiences I'll ever have. No show (aside from previously mentioned X-Files) has ever made me want to watch every week as much as Lost.
ReplyDeleteLost created characters that you fell in love with - and while the ending was not for everyone - it's far from the worst ending in tv show history (and quite frankly - as a characters person from day one, I loved it). I admit, Im irked that ABC added the crash site during the credits because it clearly confused everyone who didn't pay attention and needed a show that required no thought whatsoever.
Did some of the stuff on Lost happen on the fly - sure. But some of the things had to happen (Mr. Eko wanted to leave Hawaii to be with his mother, Walt grew up too quick). I will defend the show where it's deserved and agree where it had faults - but Lost will go down as one of my favorite shows for more reasons than I can list here - and is a world's better than Heroes which had one good season.
Based on a few discussions I came to a conclusion,
ReplyDelete1. Writers made the characters in such a way that people can relate themselves to the characters, unlike Fringe or most other genre shows. That's the biggest asset of LOST. Most viewers loved the interactions. But I find a lot of flaws in every character.
2. Making the show "mystery-driven" has bound the audience to the show even more. Almost all the episodes ends with a cliffhanger and new mysteries get added to the show in every alternate episode. This feature helped the show a lot. But, I didn't like the way, the episodes are presented at all. Every episode is mysterious. They try to bring mystery out of nothing. May be this kept the audience so eagerly watching what happens next on episode but, the fact is if we put whatever happened on any episode straight-forward and connect all the dots, one would definitely wonder "what's the point in this episode at all"?
3.The plot-lines are very simple unlike Fringe and Supernatural. There is no heavy mythology, one more feature, that attracted the people who don't love genre shows. There is hardly anything "paranormal" on the show. If at all it is there, it is not properly explained. All I remember is electromagnetism and smoke monster. Both of them weren't explained properly.
May be writers bound the audience with some "tricks and tactics", IMO they really didn't write a good story-arcs or done justification to any of the characters.
Similar to a conversation below - I was also very much a character person. I, however, didn't dislike the story taking place beyond the characters. There were certain answers that I didn't like or agree with (or felt was lazy storytelling - IE: The whispers) - but the fact was the characters in combination with the story made a powerful combination for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm not one to just stand behind a character argument for a lot of good reasons. Let me first clarify I have no issue or embarrassment in saying I've re-watched the show at least four times now - soon to be my 5th as soon as I finish my Chuck rewatch. There are many things that you catch (even small connections) in a second or third watch through. A show like this is not for everyone - but the show made you think. Some argue bad storytelling, but I believe the story was very strong the first three to four seasons - weaker in season 5 and 6 but not to the point that I did not enjoy the story nor to the point that it affected any interest in watching.
Even more so - the variety of storytelling methods (flashbacks, forwards and sideways) connected beautifully with the actions taking place on the island - Season 1, Episode 4 (Walkabout) is a prime example of this. I can cite later season examples as well - but this was on last night on G4 and is fresh in my mind.
For me - the bottom line was the show was POWERFUL - I fell in love with the characters and their adventures. The show didn't just hand you answers on a silver platter but in reality, actually answered most of them contrary to popular belief on the internet.
You may be referring to flaws in the writing when you talk about flaws (I assume you aren't referring to the fact that all the characters on Lost had some kind of flaw - which is an essential plot point) - and those exist - but those flaws in writing exist in every show I've ever seen and I see it no more and no less in Lost.
I think the energy surrounding Lost, however, is heightened and it becomes sort of a lightning rod for this kind of conversation.Fringe, admit-tingly, has better writing and I have no issue saying that - but ultimately - I do not think Lost was poorly written and I do believe the characters were well developed (though I understand the argument against Kate as a well-developed character since I myself wasn't a fan of her most of the time and see that as a valid argument).
I'd like to add to your response Michelle - that the time between weeks also gives you time to really process everything that happened. A lot happens in every lost episode - and to just move from one to the next - I think isn't as effective. Character IS what Lost was about - but I don't think the plot arcs are nearly as bad as some people make it out to be (I've watched it over 4x over - and it gets better every time).
ReplyDeleteI don't know who you spoke with but if you ask any of the Fringe Fans here they will tell you that we can and do relate to these characters.This is one of the things that make us watch week in week out....Every person that watches Fringe falls in love with these characters, and many are very upset that we only have 13 episodes because we do care for them!
ReplyDeleteI didn't get you. Are you saying, every Fringe fan can fall in love with Fringe characters or LOST characters? What do you exactly mean by these characters? Assuming that you are referring to Fringe characters, I am watching Fringe now. I am currently in 3rd season 5th episode. (I paused the episode to reply to your comment!). I enjoy story-line more than anything else on Fringe. I don't really relate myself to any character on the show. But on the other hand, I accept its entirely possible for a viewer to relate themselves to the characters of Fringe and also enjoy the character arcs.
ReplyDeleteBut IMO, LOST characters has got more potential to be closer to the hearts of viewers than that of characters of Fringe. Because on LOST most of the characters are like girls-next-door and guys-next-door, viewers may find more easy to relate themselves to the characters, than that of Fringe, where characters are mostly scientists and agents. On that top of that, personal life of characters is addressed to a great detail on LOST. Whereas in Fringe, characters are not shown to that extensive detail.
I certainly can and do relate to Lost characters,but in your first paragraph you couldn't see people relating to the Fringe characters or other genre shows.All i was saying almost every fringe fan on this sight here can relate to them,whether it is Walter,Josh,Anna or Astrid,there is something about each one that we could relate to.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is easier to get closer or feel closer to the Lost characters,they are/where as you said girls and boys next door.
I probably got that sentence wrong, thanks to my poor English vocabulary. Let me rephrase it - Its easier to relate oneself to LOST characters than other genre other shows. But, I can relate myself a lot to Winchester Brothers. In fact, the brothers are the only characters on television on relate myself to.
ReplyDeleteLol,you do pretty well with English,you just mixed it up a bit.See,and i can relate to Walter and Peter.I always hear Dahne saying Walter and Peter are a lot like the Winchester Brothers. I wouldn't know since i haven't watched SPN,but i do respect Dahne's opinion.
ReplyDeleteWhat Dahne said might be true. But, to be honest I never really felt emotional watching Fringe. I am a huge fan of Sci-Fi genre and I look for every single scientific detail on shows like this and fail to recognize the emotional aspects. It happens with me for almost all the shows and movies except Supernatural.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, there is one episode I really liked, that is "The Constant", felt most of the first season episodes mediocre and loathed the rest. The two characters I enjoyed are Desmond Hume and one scientist who comes in the middle to the island(I forgot his name, but I remember his mother tells the way to come back to the island). I did like Juliet for sometime but didn't really understand what is the point of bringing her into the show. I started this show for Sci-fi aspects, but it disappointed me a lot there. As far as characters are concerned, unfortunately, I see the flaws more than characters.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why that is? I understand that you are looking for something scientific, but i think you are missing out on the emotional journey that Fringe has taken us on,and probably with other shows as well....
ReplyDeleteI really don't know why. I am a medical student with a lot of interest in science since when I was a kid. May be that's why!
ReplyDeleteawesome! And yes, I totally agree. That time between episodes is almost needed, as you said, to process everything. There are some low spots in the story-arcs, but I also agree, it's not as bad as everyone says and every time I watch I love it more and more!
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's really much I could debate with you only because I think we'd likely go back and forth since I absolutely loved the characters (Desmond, ironically, is my favorite - and my dog is named after his "Constant" Penny).
ReplyDeleteWhile it's a shame that you didn't enjoy the characters like I and many others did - it's also perfectly reasonable that not everyone is going to love the show and it's characters. I give you props for being honest but respectable on it - considering Lost is a show that inspires quite a bit of passion.
Agreed - without the time - you don't get to take in all the events that occurred. To me, the story arcs, while having low points, ultimately were never bad. I, for one, enjoyed the time travel story aspect and thought it was great to see the island's history in this way as opposed to a flashback - thus utilizing a story method that was different when they could have easily gone to their bread and butter in "the flashback".
ReplyDelete...and obviously we agree in regards to characters. I do believe the characters for the most part are VERY well developed, as opposed to a few in the later seasons who weren't given a full opportunity to be expanded on and loved.
yes, the characters deserve all the love (save a few...Nikki and Paolo??). :)
ReplyDeleteI also really loved all the time travel stuff (which is good because nearly the whole show is that, lol), and the only point in which the show almost lost me (haha) as a viewer was in season 3 when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were with the Others (too long!). But I can't think of another moment that I disliked, plot-wise.
Ah, all this talk is making me want to go rewatch the whole thing again, right now!
To be fair - I thought the episode in which Nikki and Paolo are written off the show is actually entertaining. I didn't hate Nikki as much as Paolo - but they learned very quickly if the audience wasn't interested in a character - they didn't need them.
ReplyDeleteSeason 3 had a few moments - I admit, I wasn't a fan of Kate during the "triangle" years as I consider seasons 1-3 (more later season 1) - and was more of a Juliet or Penny fan. This comes with being believing Desmond is the best character on the show though.
lol, I can agree their exit was great, and swift. Thankfully. They were a waste, sadly.
ReplyDeleteAlso, loved Penny! :)
As for Juliet...meh. Once she connected with Sawyer I grew to appreciate her, but she made me crazy for a long time!
In light of the Ben Linus conversation - this is my impression. Benjamin Linus was not ness. a bad person - but he was raised in a bad position, with an abussive dad who neglected him. He was desperate - the incident he had as a child changed him forever and turned him against the DI - unleashing a darker side of him.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't handed anything in life and worked hard one would argue to become the leader of the Others - by any means ness, but this is the life he knew. The motivation behind benjamin linus is simple, however, he wanted to be the big man on the island - it was his only goal for 5 seasons. When Flocke makes him believe he's going to have that opportunity he follows - but you can see very clearly he's hesitant to trust him - when he realizes Flocke's true nature and his ultimate decision - he realizes his mistake.
Ben did some very bad things - all in the name of the island - but ultimately - he came to respect Jack and the Losties (esp. Hurley). I believe there's a good reason that he let Hurley go at the end of Season 2 - he truly saw the good in Hurley where in Jack, Kate and Sawyer there was a bad past that Jacob was very well aware of - they were much more flawed than Hurley was.
In the end, Benjamin Linus knew and loved that island - but he knew well enough he had not been a good person. That's why in the flashside ways he does not move on. He's not done repenting for his life - and needs more to do so.
If you need to put it in a sentence or two, Benjamin Linus's constant was THE ISLAND. Everything he did was FOR THE ISLAND. That was his character's motivation. Nothing else mattered to him (I would argue his daughter whom he cared about - mattered - but not even as much as the island).