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POLL : What did you think of Game of Thrones - Blackwater?

28 May 2012

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91 comments:

  1. MeatyStakes28 May 2012 at 20:50

    I flailed the whole damn time. Best hour of television of the season.

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  2. MeatyStakes28 May 2012 at 20:50

    Hell hath no fury like a gay lover scorned. But seriously, Stannis forced the Tyrrel's hand, and they are like, what, the third power on Westeros? (BTW lol at the ex-liver's typo XD)

    This episode was so great, so tight all around. I wonder how Tyrion's wound will heal; it did cut a fair amount of bone.

    The framing of the battle was really well done, I agree! It was a relatively small set, but the sense of scale was definitely there.

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  3. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:50

    Ha! XD
    Fixed.

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  4. Manu28 May 2012 at 20:50

    tyrion isn't dead.

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  5. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:50

    For anyone who liked that last song... or anyone who has wanted to hear The Rains of Castamere since reading the books.... here ya go:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn2l2_v6Ur8

    ReplyDelete
  6. Wilson Crawford28 May 2012 at 20:50

    Can't tell if dead or sleeping.
    o_O

    Anyone who has read the books: Was that Tyrion's death or did he just freak out and faint? I think that happened once last season. Also what was up with the "stand-in" for the king trying to slice up the imp's face?

    Poor Stannis. Can't have nothing. lol

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  7. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:50

    In the books his head was nearly split in half with part of his face basically ripped off.....

    In the books Tyrion is disfigured for the rest of the saga , missing part of his nose and with extreme scarring.

    My guess is that just would have been way too costly and time-consuming to do for the production team seeing as Tyrion is one of the featured characters throughout the saga.

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  8. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:50

    This week's promo stills from HBO:

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  9. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:51

    The song was mentioned in the books a few times and the story behind the song was told by Tywin to Arya a few episodes back. 
    Some of the lyrics were in the book, the chorus if I recall. Of course there was no music or melody in the books though. I have not listened to the entire video yet... too much to do tonight .

    I have no idea about how the production worked out, but I did read elsewhere that the song will be on the Season 2 Soundtrack for Game of Thrones.

    ReplyDelete
  10. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:51

    I like Sherlock quite a it, but I had issues with the Season 2 finale honestly. It was one of my least favorite of the episodes of the series.

    That said, Even if the Sherlock finale was brilliant, or as brilliant as many think, it would still pale in comparison to the scale of this episode of Game of Thrones.

    I won't compare or contrast the writing or dialog since they are so different, but the production values of Game of Thrones are literally second to none on TV. Some people may like this series or that series more for whatever reason, but no show comes close to Thrones in production scale.

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  11. tsavonglah0828 May 2012 at 20:51

    psst, no spoilers. ;)
    I believe for his fate we have to wait til next season. I am not very sure if in the finale episode we will see King's Landing again.

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  12. andy s28 May 2012 at 20:51

    Great episode, but I have to ask, where was the child of shadows (I don't know how's it called)? It killed Renly so effectively, I am sure it would help here

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  13. Deniece Jones28 May 2012 at 20:51

    By far the best episode of season 2, fantastic.

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  14. Pascal21928 May 2012 at 20:52

    This was amazing! So much thoughts to absorb from that hour.

    Stannis still landing after losing half his fleet in the wildfire attack was badass. He almost won too if it wasn't for his tactical error in making the tyrells his enemy. The man can't catch a break, he plays too much by the rules!

    The last we saw of grand maester Pycell was that he was in jail? How was he out all of a sudden?

    And here I was just starting to like Tywin, you crazy old man, did you have to save the day? I wanted to see Joffrey die! Preferably painfully and slowly. ;)

    Clegane was a total beast and when confronted with his own death, said screw it, not for king douchebag. Which was a nice twist, I hope he heads towards the wall, they sure could use his badassness there!

    @darquemode, didn't notice it was renly's armor in all the chaos. Someone pointing it out would have been better. But it is a nice twist and I will be watching more closely the second time around.

    By the way, I read about the chain beforehand and I'm glad it wasn't used. It always felt a bit convenient to me and it really never was shown or mentioned. Also it would make stannis' escape that much harder to believe. Assuming he escaped ofcourse!

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  15. Sara Hoyt28 May 2012 at 20:54

    I haven't read the books and I definitely did not notice that. Seems like this episode more than any other it would have helped to have read them. I decided I'm going to take the time to read them before next season starts up, I feel like I'm missing a lot to all the plots (especially the little things like this) because I haven't read them yet 

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  16. tsavonglah0828 May 2012 at 20:54

    No problem. There is happening so much in this series. Today I totally missed that Loras wore Renly's armor.


    Effing Littlefinger I would say.:D Yeah, so far Stannis was very stale for me but leading his troops in the battle really made me root for him as well. 

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  17. Nick Scryer28 May 2012 at 20:55

    Incredible, just brilliant. Best episode of Television I've ever witnessed.

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  18. magnutude28 May 2012 at 20:56

     I didn't pick up on the details that it was Renly's armor due to the chaos onscreen, but saw that they focused in on the leader and kind of half thought that it might be Jaime (even though I knew that it wouldn't be since he's keeping company with Brianne right now) and didn't know who it was until the reveal in the throne room that it was Loras. I'm slowly working my way thru the first book and am looking forward to eventually reading about this epic battle onpage if time ever permits...

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  19. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 20:56

    I think they left Tyrion on the field of battle as a bit of a cliffhanger letting viewers think he may be dead. Where ever they can add drama they seem to I guess. Tyrion's possible death would certainly add a lot of drama! XD

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  20. Lissie_Bee28 May 2012 at 20:56

    Ha, I felt the same way about Joffrey - I was like, "Damn, this kid is actually going to grow a pair and lead his army... maybe he's not so - oh, wait... yep, there's the coward we know and hate." It did provide Tyrion with a great opportunity to lead himself - I think the speech he gave the men after stepping up and leading the charge himself was one of the greatest moments his character has seen this season. It's too bad it worked out badly for him :(

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  21. Pascal21928 May 2012 at 20:57

    Oh Right! I completely forgot about that brief scene! Thank you! So much happens in an episode I tend to forget things, thanks for clearing that up.

    I was completely rooting for Stannis too bad he lost, freaking tyrells and Tywin!

    I wonder how many fans of the books will go haywire over not using the chain. xD

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  22. laura334128 May 2012 at 20:57

     I was so swept up in the battle that when i saw it i knew there was something about it,but at that moment i couldn't place it. After the episode aired i rewound it and that's when i realized who's armor that was...like MeatyStakes stated i wish someone had said Renly's ghost!

     Awesome episode,i thought Tryion died. He looked that way to me,at first i thought he was just wounded,but the way he collapsed with that expression i figured he was injured worse then i thought..as he was watching his farther ride in on the horse and he closed his eyes i thought for sure he was a gonna,but thanks to Manu he told me he wasn't dead.....can't wait to see the finale next week!

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  23. laura334128 May 2012 at 21:00

      The first time i saw Tyrion i didn't care for him,but by the end of S1 i starting liking him and ever since i look for him in every episode..after last night i realized i fell in love with his character!  I was so upset last night when i thought he died i couldn't talk about it,all i kept thinking was Joffey running back like the coward he is,and here is his brother,.grrr you know what i mean,i don 't need to tell you,ha!  mini rant over! :P

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  24. DarqueMode28 May 2012 at 21:07

    I understand! XD

    The way GRRM writes there are very, very few true "black" or "evil" characters and very few true "white" or "good" characters in the series. Most of the characters are shades of "grey".... Most of the heroes and heroines have faults and make mistakes along the way and at times we anger at them...... Most of the villains have reasons for their actions and at times can be sympathetic characters even!

    In Book 3 I found myself rooting for a character I loathed in Book 1 and now that character is one of the most intriguing stories in the saga for me!

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  25. laura334128 May 2012 at 21:11

      Same here! I fell in love with Tyrion's character last night! He might be small in stature but after that speech he stands taller then any man there! Joffey couldn't even dream of being half the man Tryion is...well you get the idea..

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  26. laura334128 May 2012 at 21:22

     Yes i've been noticing that,and i guess during that time in history it must of been even worse,i can't imagine having to go through all of that,it really was fighting for your life during that period in time..
      I love to read,and lord knows i haven't done much of it lately but reading all the comments,listening to everyone,i haven't been this excited about reading a book..well in years! Mostly thanks to you,so thank you for giving me that little push that you aren't even aware of!  :)

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  27. numer0six28 May 2012 at 22:59

    Damn' I hoped that Sansa escaped with the hound. poor girl!

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  28. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:07

     spoilerTV really needs to put something above awesome :-)

    That was an incredible hour of television.

    Loved the wildfire scene, even if I find doubtful that stannis float didn't understood that the ship was trapped. The barbary and the realism of the ground battle was like a punch in the gut. I felt for every of these anonymous men.
    For a person who didn't read the books like me, it was full of suspense and unexpected twist.
    I think my jaw dropped to the floor when I saw daddy lannister come to the rescue. It was awesome.

    random thoughts:

    Stannis Baratheon is one hell of a fighter, the man has courage.

    I'm not afraid for tyrion, he is too great to die so soon. I have the naive hope that his father will acknowledge his courage and his skills, but that family is so twisted that I'm not sure it will happen. Anyway, Tyrion journey from the sarcastic drinking imp to the fierce "half-man" is great to watch

    I'm not sure I understood the hound motive. He is afraid of the fight, that's why he left and gave the finger to Jeoffrey? Or he didn't want to die in a battle that seemed lost? I like that even when he run away from fight, he does it with panache ;-)

    And I still don't understand why ihe is interested in Sansa? Maybe he had a daughter or something like that?

    Shae better run away, she is on Cersei radar.

    Hound: "Any man dies with a clean sword, I'll rape his fucking corpse"
    best f*cking quote ever XD

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  29. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:15

     "Who else wants to see Joffrey's head on a spike? Me! Me! Me!"

    Me too! I hope next week Dad lannister kick his ass of and claim the iron trone for himself.

    "Looks like Stannis got some Arzt on him! XD"

    Did I miss the polar bear appearence? ;-)

    Yes, I didn't read the books and I concurr: The end of the battle was a little confusing, at least for me

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  30. Mia49429 May 2012 at 00:22

    OMG. I'm speechless. It was plain awesome. The best episode of the series by far.

    I have to start with the Hound. Man, I LOVE this guy to pieces. Definitely the most intriguing and confusing character I've ever encountered, in any book or TV show. I loved that he finally got the amount of screen time he deserves. And finally we got to see some of his impetuous, violent nature, some of his inner anger, got to hear some of his curses. Absolutely great acting from McCann with showing his fear for the fire too. Seriously cannot wait for more of him, although I do realize we'll have to wait quite a while for his next appearance. Also, I'm gonna personally kill GRRM if the Hound doesn't appear in the last two books.

    Gotta say his scene with Sansa was a major disappointment, though, and the only issue I have with this episode. they practically robbed this scene of everything that made it so awesome in the book. First off, THE DAMN SONG. I cannot believe she never sang for him. I actually thought it was pretty essential for the way they both thought of each other later on. And so, no song, no tears. No face touch. Gah. No almost kiss either. No "They're all afraid of me. Noone would hurt you again, or I'd kill them". No white cloak left behind. SERIOUSLY? Also didn't like how outright they played his offer to take her away. In the book it was subtle, all he said was "I could keep you safe", not "I could take you to Winterfell". A little too much obviousness here. Also, they kinda made her look stupid for not going with him, as he was asking her so nicely. In the book he was totally drunk and awful so you couldn't blame her for wanting to stay.

    But well, time to end the bitching, even though they ruined the scene I was looking forward to the entire season. Nevertheless, the episode was just amazing. LOVED the symbolism and little clues for what's gonna happen later. The Rains of Castamere, anyone? I thought it was brilliant to put it in now, considering the role the song's gonna play later. Also loved the "tears are not women's only weapon".  Immediately thought of tears of Lys.

    Tyrion was awesome, as always. The quarter-man quote was great, although my fav remains the "they say I'm half a man, so what does that make you?". Just too bad he didn't say it directly to Sandor. I'm glad his scar will not be as big and awful as the book states, Peter is way too pretty for that ;)

    I sincerely like Shae right now, she's awesome with Sansa. This unexpected bond of theirs is very enjoyable and makes me wonder how their dynamic will change when certain season 3 events occur.

    Sansa was great too. Loved that she clutched that doll from Ned, good girl. Also loved how she told Tyrion she was gonna pray for him, but then was like: "just like I'll pray for Joffrey". LOL poor Tyrion. I really think after all those lessons from Cersei and later on from a certain someone, she'll become an awesome player in the game. So beware, Sansa is coming.

    The wildfire was great too. Yes, I did miss the chain, but I could live without it, the battle still looked awesome. I was afraid they would make it small, like the riot, but no, it was perfect.

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  31. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 00:26

    The Hound is afraid of fire in the true phobia sense. His brother Gregor "The Mountain", held his face into the fire when he was 7 and the fire left both physical and psychological scars on Sandor.

    Seeing that much fire in the battle, and magic-infused Wildfire no less, he just lost it and had a breakdown of sorts feeling the overwhelming need to get far away from the fire.

    In the books there is much more detail about Sandor and Sansa. He kind of sees himself as a kindred spirit with Sansa in the sense that they are both victims of bullies. He was bullied by his brother Gregor and now Sansa is being bullied by Joffrey.

    He calls her "little bird" because she chirps on command. I think he is impressed by her inner strength that allows her to stay alive in the situation, but he also wants her to stand up for herself. So he ends up coming off as mockingly paternal if that makes any sense.... He basically tries to protect Sansa from Joffrey's wrath in subtle ways that Joffrey is too dumb to notice.

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  32. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:27

     Me too. Scandal in Belgravia was my favorite episode.
    This episode was perfect. Loved particulary the visual effects and the scenes between the brothers Holmes.
    I fould Irene Adler far more captivating than Moriarty (in this tv serie anyway)

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  33. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:31

    I hope tyrion will get his sweet revenge. I thought Cersei was behind it, but you'r right, it could be Jeoffrey too.

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  34. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 00:32

    I agree...
    I'm in the minority I know, but I never really liked Andrew Scott's portrayal of Moriarty. For me it was over-the-top campy most of the time. More like something from a superhero film than a Sherlock episode.

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  35. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:34

     no. I didn't get that. The end of the battle was quite confusing for me.

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  36. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 00:36

    I did think some of the cut-away shots of boulders dropped on heads or skulls cleaved in half were campy.  The VFX were handled very well so it all looked real enough, but it still felt a bit like the Evil Dead to me. XD

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  37. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:39

    I wondered if a man could really do that with a sword, yes. I guess a sword could do heavily damage but cut through a bone or a crane in one swift movement? doubtful

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  38. RobertAriadne29 May 2012 at 00:40

    Good grief, is this the pick-on-Moriarty club? I thought he was spectacular, especially in The Reichenbach Fall. Scott thoroughly deserved his BAFTA.

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  39. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 00:42

    It would have been easier to tell in the books for another reason besides reading makes things more obvious. In the book's Renly's armor was green and stood out more.

    That is one aspect at times I wish they kept in from the books, but I do understand why they edited it out. In the books many of the various characters armor or weapons have color infused into the metal. Not really in a magical sense, but more a mystical lost art of metallurgy from another time.

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  40. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:50

     That's exactly my issue with Moffat/Gatiss Moriarty

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  41. Mia49429 May 2012 at 00:51

    As someone who adores the so called SanSan I assure you the show hasn't given us half of their significant moments from the books. So keep reading ;)

    Aaah, Podrick Payne. Love the guy. I really hope they develop his character in season 3, he's totally worth it. Love his quotes. A boy who manages to be afraid of Sansa Stark is really something ;)

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  42. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 00:53

    Most people loved the performance so it was deserved.

    I just felt it was too much from the moment of his first true identity reveal to the finale of Reichenbach Fall. Different strokes I guess.....

    I guess I like subtle evil geniuses. XD
    In Thrones I have issue with Littlefinger too. I loved him in the books, but I find the TV performance too in your face and obvious. Like he is channeling some cartoon arch-villain like Snidely Whiplash curling his handlebar mustache as he makes his evil plans...
    http://www.cartoon-studio.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Cartoon-Bad-Guys.jpg

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  43. numer0six29 May 2012 at 00:57

     I don't know if it's the actor choice or if he followed Moffat/Gatiss direction so I couldn't say if the actor is good or not, but I found Moriarty over-the-top just like DarqueMode.

    Two posters expressing the same feeling about a character hardly make a pick-on club.

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  44. laura334129 May 2012 at 01:01

     I knew something happened to him,but i didn't realize his brother did that to him,no wonder he grabbed for the wine and wanted out of there...that makes sense..

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  45. numer0six29 May 2012 at 01:09

    Many thanks fo the insight on Sandor. It's hard to imagine him being bullied by anyone :-)
    Is that why he didn't like Bronn? He saw him as a bully and thus challenged him in the bar scene?

    I love this show, but sometimes it's difficult to follow all the subplots when you haven't read the books :-)

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  46. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 01:10

    They touched on it during the Hand's Tournament in episode 1x04 (Ithink) when Littlefinger told Sansa how the Hound got his scars. Between not knowing all the characters so early into theseries and then the traumatic death at hte joust it 's easy to not take that bit in completely!

    There is so much like that in Thrones. Many seemingly minor details told that connect to later events to enhance them.

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  47. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 01:14

    The Bronn scene was new to the series and not in the books. I'm not sure I understand it too much honestly.

    The producer discusses the scene in the clip "On the Same Side" in the episode extras I posted here: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/05/game-of-thrones-episode-209-blackwater_28.html

    He seems to make it more of a pissing contest between two alpha males or Sandor not being a fan of Bronn's life of leisure without duty.

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  48. laura334129 May 2012 at 01:18

    Your right, i had a hard time trying to keep track of who was who and to what family they belonged with! I'm know now i just can't remember all there names,such is life,i goggle when need be,ha!

     I just finished reading everyone's comments i have a few question but i have to ask,what is this Chain you and others have referred to? I gather it ha something to do with the battle,but what did it do,or used for?

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  49. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 01:26

    In the book Tyrion comes up with a way to defend the city. He has the smiths all make a giant chain without telling anyone why. 

    Then he has that chain placed hanging down in Blackwater Bay and once Stannis's ships cross over the chain line he has men raise the chain so it traps them inside the bay while the Wildfire explodes all around them.In the books they launched jars of Wildfire from catapults at the ships and not one big explosion, but many over and over throughout the battle. Much more of the battle was at sea in the books and there was more Wildfire all around.

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  50. laura334129 May 2012 at 01:46

      Wow that's awesome! I can see why it didn't make the screen, but it had to make an exciting read!

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  51. Mia49429 May 2012 at 01:51

    Stannis decided not to take Melisandre or her magic to the battle following Davos's advice. If she had been there and they'd have won, everyone would have been saying it was the priestess's victory, not Stannis's.

    However, knwowing what we know now, he totally should have taken her with him.

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  52. numer0six29 May 2012 at 02:40

    XD
    Well, in that case, TPTB shouldn't forget that there are fangirls who watch the show too ;-D

    tks for the link, I didn't watch the extra yet. The shiny sun outside made me leave my computer a little longer than usual :-)

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  53. numer0six29 May 2012 at 02:45

     ha ha ha!
    totally littlefinger and his devilish little plots :-D


    "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal"

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  54. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 03:00

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxFrgql5dc

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  55. numer0six29 May 2012 at 03:05

    XD mine is an evil laugh!
    tks for that. I good laugh is just what I needed before going to sleep ;-)

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  56. andy s29 May 2012 at 07:11

    Ah yes, I remember now. But, he took Renly's ships with the help of magic, so even without Melisandre at the scene, his victory would be hers. So, why not go all the way? He had already dipped in, he might have as well gone for the swim. In essence, he should have turned down Melisandre the night she promised him a son. Every moment after that is hers too. In that sense, I find Stannis a lot less satisfying than I would have if he either went with just his (and not Renly's army), if he killed Renly in the battlefield and then took what left, or if he took Melisandre and let her do her thing at Blackwater. All three scenarios would present a more consistent motivation

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  57. tsavonglah0829 May 2012 at 09:06

    Right, saw the Preview in the meantime. They have still so many stories to cover. A 2-hour finale would make it much more easier. Well this way we will get many cliffhangers I suppose.

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  58. Adam D. Harris29 May 2012 at 13:26

    I didn't get it whatsoever... 

    I was watching on a computer rather than a TV screen though. I look forward to next March when I can watch it on my Blu Ray player :P

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  59. Adam D. Harris29 May 2012 at 13:29

    As much as I loved the episode, I much prefer the smaller scale episodes which builds drama out of character conversations and almost battles of the mind.

    That being said, it was nice to get something totally different, massive and I enjoyed the action. It should satisfy the people who wanted more of the fighting.

    Good stuff, but not the best episode of the series as some people are stating!

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  60. Sandi29 May 2012 at 13:39

    As someone who hasn't got to that point in the books yet, the end of the battle was verra confusing XD

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  61. Sandi29 May 2012 at 14:11

    What a relief to read I'm not the only one who thought this was the best of the season, lol.  But then, I've felt that each episode has had some very very good highs coupled with some truly dreadful lows.  All the main Lannister's have been superb this year imo, even Cersei and Jamie who's characterisation I disliked in S1, and though I'm not that keen on Tywin and Arya's change of story from the books, I am loving their scenes together; a real treat.

    The down sides for me are the rushing through things too quickly and the addition, and portrayal of women during, much of the sex scenes.  I don't see why each book has to be one season on TV, why can't they take their time and do 10 episodes which explain things better for the non reader, I'm presently halfway through book 2 and much of what I have read has been skipped over or badly fumbled and not explained fully.  If they carry on in this fashion my biggest fear is that it's going to become too serialised for some viewers, esp the fringe element who only watch each episode once when it airs rather than relying to being able to pick up the story with repeated watching or online discussion.

    As for the sex, it really is appealing to heterosexual males to such an exclusive extend now that I'm finding it incredible annoying.  If characters are in a sexual situation then the women are *always* shown as nude while the men keep their clothes on, even when gay men 'have sex' the most they do is take their top off.  I can only recall one or two exceptions to this in S1...Alfie Allen (who shows his old boy to anyone who asks and probably requested that shot himself :p) being the only full frontal male in the series so far IIRC?  I'm not particularly sexist, but I am finding it more and more of a turn off that women are portrayed like this.  I *get* that the show deals with sex and uses it to explain certain sides of characters, it's just ridiculously bias and unrealistic imo.

    Ho hum

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  62. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 22:05

    Baelor (1x09) and The Pointy End (1x08) remain my favorite episodes of the series.

    Blackwater was epic in scale and action-filled, but I think Thrones is at its best when it comes to small quiet moments and character moments. 

    I think arguably my favorite scene in Blackwater was Sansa grabbing the doll Ned gave her.  It said so much without any words or actions....

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  63. DarqueMode29 May 2012 at 22:08

    The last part of the battle once Stannis and the combined army arrived was just a mess honestly. They did not frame it well enough for people to really understand what was going on. I have read the books a few times and had to almost guess at parts. Still a brilliant episode, but the end was a mess.

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  64. numer0six30 May 2012 at 00:54

    A brilliant mess. Exactly!

    Like some others fans, I will read the books, but not until the story has aired.

    I prefer to get the element of surprise on screen, then read the detailled story :-)

    I've bought the first book, I suppose it is safe to read? I mean, it's one season for one book or the tv show doesn't follow the books chronology?

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  65. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 01:53

    Book 1 is safe to read.

    They have followed the books fairly closely, some lines or events left out of Book 1 made their way into Season 2 I guess. 

    From this point on though it will be much harder to follow the books. Book 3 is huge and will cover about 2 seasons, and Books 4 and 5 take place at the same time with half the cast and locations in one book and the other half in the second book.  Plus some of the events in Books 4 and 5 overlap the end of Book 3.

    Next year some of Book 2 will make its way into Season 3, and then Season 4 will mostly be the rest of Book 3 with some of the later books pushed forward. Season 5 will be most of Books 4 and 5....  

    There is really not enough material from books 4 and 5 to make 2 full seasons I don't think, but if they pad stories an relocate elements from earlier or later books.... Well you can see how it gets confusing after next year! XD

    After that who knows as GRRM has not written the rest of the books.

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  66. numer0six30 May 2012 at 03:11

     Thanks! Book one is on my summer reading list then :-)

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  67. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 13:54

    I was out of town so I couldn't post a comment, but most of my thoughts have been captured anyway.

    GRRM directs episodes that use Sandor the best.  My only disappointment was that Sandor came off as less creepy, but all season he's been that way so I guess it'd be too jarring a shift.  His feelings for Sansa are just too obvious and it takes away from his gruff appearance.

    That being said, Stannis Baratheon was the freaking man this episode.  Pretty much any time he was on screen, I was amped up.  What I really liked was that it allowed us to see a Baratheon in action.  Robert's lore is all old, Renly never fought a battle.  In Stannis, I could see the kind of guy that would defeat three armies at Summerhall or defeat Prince Rhaegar at the Trident.  It also showed the viewer what a real king was like in that he was fearless and inspired his men.
    Joff, by contrast, was a crying baby.
    That's something that also bugs me.  Joff's cowardice.  I get that he's a cruel moron, but he seems to think so highly of himself that I find it hard to believe he's afraid to die.  He should think that as the king, no man would dare touch him.  And he's been training with swords all of his life so... I dunno, it's a disconnect.
    I was glad to see Lancel at least got to do some fighting as well.  

    But for me, the end was perhaps the best.  Not Tywin and Loras-Renly riding in, but Cersei preparing to kill Tommen.  It showed that she really loved not just her children, but the ones that deserved to be loved.  Tommen would be spared Stannis' wroth; however, she left Joffrey to perish as he needed to.  It was a touching scene that really helped humanize her all the more.

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  68. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 13:55

    I don't really think a fantasy story should abandon large scale combat... 

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  69. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 13:58

    To be fair, we don't see full frontal nudity from any female character.  It's a "topless, pantless" world in HBO.  It just so happens that women have breasts which are sexualized.  

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  70. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 13:59

    Sansa never kissed Sandor.  GRRM points out that when she "remembers" it in AFFC it's because she's romanticizing the moment / being an unreliable narrator.  She sings the song for him, he tears his cloak off and leaves. 

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  71. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 14:02

    To be fair, Stannis' men were shouting "GHOST! GHOST!" as "Renly" and Tywin arrived.  I wasn't shocked Garlan was cut, it just sucks because he was such a cool guy in comparison to his brother.  Really level-headed.

    I don't see how they could have done it differently, unless maybe Stannis saw Renly's armor and went "... Renly?" and then the men started retreating.  Still, non-book viewers should pick up a book if they're confused. 

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  72. LockeUp30 May 2012 at 17:26

    Are we going to see anymore of the shadow assassin? I don't understand why Stannis didn't use it...And no I haven't read the books.

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  73. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:28

    I agree about Stannis...
    Even though it was mentioned once or twice, it was hard to feel like King Robert Baratheon was a fearsome warrior that could level multiple men with one swing of his hammer. 

    I think the sheer size of the Baratheon men is lost on the non-bookreaders. Robert was supposed to be about 6'-6" and hugely muscled under his flab, Renly and Stannis are both supposed to be very large as well. Maybe it was Mark Addy not being huge like Robert was supposed to be, or seeing so much of the drunkard, but regardless it was nice to see a proper Baratheon do his thing in combat.
    I think in smaller numbers like a 11v1 or him and his King's Guard on 1, Joffrey would want to challenge people in combat for sure. He is deluded to think he is a skilled swordsman and untouchable simply because he is the King. Now, with large groups where anything could happen I can understand him being more cowardly I guess.I think the late battle at the end of the episode was my favorite too. I loved the Sansa scene grabbing her doll, and the Cersei scene with Tommen was brilliant as well I agree. I loved those quiet moments within the chaos.

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  74. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:31

    We should see more of the shadowborn or shadowbaby.

    I think Stannis did not use the magic because of Davos' warning that if Melisandre was involved in the siege it would appear as her victory and not Stannis' victory.

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  75. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:35

    Personally even though I thought some of the Blackwater combat scenes were a bit over-the-top or felt campy, I loved the combat and thought it was well done. 

    Violence is part of this world and it needs to be shown to have the proper weight of the reality. That said, I still prefer the smaller, more quiet moments usually. It is not about removing the huge combat scenes for me, they needed to be in this season and in this episode!I just find the more isolated drama more compelling.

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  76. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:40

    Plus in a male dominated society where women were often traded by their fathers for power, women blatantly used their sexuality and nudity as power, raping them was the goal of most conquering soldiers, and prostitution was more prevalent and accepted, it just makes logistical sense that there would be more nude women.

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  77. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:43

    I have not read that scene for detail in a long while, but wasn't there an "almost kiss"? A moment that Sandor almost kissed her but held back? 

    I think many read into that even if it was not specifically stated.

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  78. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 18:47

    I actually missed the chanting of "ghost" I will listen for that next time.

    I agree, I'm not sure how they really could have done the scene that much differently without Stannis voicing the shock at seeing Renly's armor.

    For me the confusion was not just about that situation, but how the battle unfolded once Stannis arrived with the Lannister/Tyrell army. It just all moved so fast with no real obvious transitions until Stannis walked in behind Loras in Renly's armor and said they had won the battle.

    I guess some of the confusion will be lifted in the finale when we see why the Tyrell army joined with Stannis etc....

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  79. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 19:15

    I'd have to read again.  She closes her eyes and begins to sing for certain and then when she opens them he's gone.

    He later remarks to [someone] that "I took a song from [Sansa] but I could have taken more." 

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  80. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 19:17

    LOL! You keep saying "Stannis" for "Tywin" and I was like "wait what?" because you kept saying Stannis for Stannis as well.
    But yeah, there is some exposition needed as to why Tywin showed up.  Hell, it was even kind of confusing in the book IMO.  

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  81. DarqueMode30 May 2012 at 19:24

    Ha! Fixed.

    I'm just waking up... I slept too long and I feel like a zombie today! 
    Neeed braaaaaaaaains!

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  82. Gregory Bryant Jr30 May 2012 at 21:30

    Like Darque said, Melisandre wasn't allowed to come.  Had she, she probably could have turned the wildfire against the Lannister army.  Also, she has to have sex with a man to make a shadowborn and each time she does it drains the man. 

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  83. LockeUp30 May 2012 at 22:54

     Ah yes. Makes sense. I hope there's more of Stannis. I really like his character.

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  84. MeatyStakes30 May 2012 at 22:58

    Yes! I really loved the cinematography, how the scenes were shot, It really added to the pace and mood. It was a much more intimate story and very cloak and dagger.

    I loved Adler as a character, she was not in the same league as Holmes and Moriarty, but she definitively used all the tools on her reach, and that is the kind of character that I admire. Above all, I loved that the episode focused in the interactions between the characters, even Ms Hudson and Molly got their moments.

    I too preferred Irene as a character and foil to Holmes, and even if Moriarty is the only one thus far that could beat him, he came up just too misanthropic to me, and that combined with the campyness, didn't let me enjoy him as much. I am a romantic at heart, and Adler just tugged at all the right strings.

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  85. Sandi1 June 2012 at 09:18

    If you can see that the actress is waxed/trimmed then that full frontal nudity.

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  86. Sandi1 June 2012 at 09:22

    If that is the case, firstly why is it in non prostitution scenes that the women is completely naked but the men stay more or less fully clothed, or if gay men are having sex they never do more than take their tops off?  And secondly, why are these scenes that aren't in the books added at all?

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  87. Sandi1 June 2012 at 09:25

    I couldn't agree more, the quieter moments show far more character detail for me.  The fire was amazingly done in Blackwater, but without the reaction shots from the battlements we as the audience would have lost a lot of detail imo.

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  88. Gregory Bryant Jr1 June 2012 at 20:37

    So the mons of a woman = the penis of a male?
    That doesn't seem right.  We've definitely seen penis.  We've never seen a vagina. 

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  89. Sandi1 June 2012 at 21:58

    Whether we agree on the definition of full frontal or not, you can't argue that we see naked women a lot, not just as prostitutes, where as we have only seen 2 naked men over the two years.

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  90. Mia4941 June 2012 at 23:04

    Yeah, like I said, an "almost kiss", not a kiss. I meant this one:
    "He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened."
    You can understand it however you like, I guess. For me it's an almost kiss.
    Then he got angry, drew the damn dagger and made her sing. Then he cried.

    And that someone is Arya. I must say I'm awaiting their scenes together with impatiance too, just like I awaited SanSan and as I await Sansa/Tyrion. Good stuff's coming!

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  91. Harry Lime8 April 2014 at 05:38

    Great episode! One small gripe: did anyone else think that some of the violence (mainly Sandor cutting the guy in half and Stannis doing the same to a guy's face) was cartoonishly over the top? I mean, in some parts it was like I was watching an early Peter Jackson movie.

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