Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Supernatural - Episode 7.21 - Reading Is Fundamental - Press Release
Sign Up


    Enable Dark Mode!

  • What's HOT
  • Premiere Calendar
  • Ratings News
  • Movies
  • YouTube Channel
  • Submit Scoop
  • Contact Us
  • Search
  • Privacy Policy
Get In Touch
 Join SpoilerTV
Support SpoilerTV
SpoilerTV.com is now available ad-free to for all premium subscribers. Thank you for considering becoming a SpoilerTV premium member!

SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Episode 7.21 - Reading Is Fundamental - Press Release

12 Apr 2012

Share on Reddit
CASTIEL AWAKENS FROM HIS COMATOSE STATE — Meg (guest star Rachel Miner) calls Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) and tells them Castiel (guest star Misha Collins) is awake and talking. Meanwhile, a teenager named Kevin (guest star Osric Chau) gets hit by a bolt of lightening and is turned into a reluctant prophet. Sam and Dean believe Kevin holds the key to defeating the Leviathans but must fight off two Archangels who want him for their own purposes. The episode was written and directed by Ben Edlund (#721).

Source: CW
-
Sign Up for the SpoilerTV Newsletter where we talk all things TV!

160 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl12 April 2012 at 03:03

    Ooh, sounds great!

    ReplyDelete
  2. KatAdams0312 April 2012 at 03:06

    I thought all the Archangels were gone? Curious. 

    ReplyDelete
  3. BoxManLocke12 April 2012 at 03:07

    Okay, I wasn't psyched about bringing in a new prophet, but Achangels as well ? Come on now, I thought we were done with this crap.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Bruce_F12 April 2012 at 03:15

    Not digging the prophet and archangel stuff.  This would be a good time for us to find out that Cas also transferred all his powers to Sam so he can just snuff 'em all out.  That way, we don't have to have another angel storyline.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dahne12 April 2012 at 03:18

    Egads, we're back to archangels again and the resurrection of Castiel and miniChuck.  Ugh!  At least we've got Meg and presumably a leap in the Leviathan story line.  Ben Edlund is a hit or miss for me.  The things he hits are solid gold but his misses are just as monumental.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Thiefy12 April 2012 at 03:19

    Two archangels? I thought they were all dead. This sounds insane and extremely improbable, but... my first thought was Michael and Lucifer. 

    I'm really excited to see Cas again, and FINALLY get back to the Leviathan plot. 

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dahne12 April 2012 at 03:22

    I like the way you think although only if by wiping out the archangels, Sam loses all power with no hope of getting ti back.  A Sam with angel superpowers wouldn't do the series any service either.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bruce_F12 April 2012 at 03:23

     I agree that the presence of Meg and some forward movement on the Leviathan storyline is the bright side in an otherwise worrisome synopsis.

    ReplyDelete
  9. MatildaLouise12 April 2012 at 03:25

    Ooh, I'm excited. I found the angels to be infinitely more interesting than the leviathans. I'm curious to see how this all plays out, and I can't wait to see Castiel again. :)

    ReplyDelete
  10. Rabia Salvatore12 April 2012 at 03:27

    I was wondering how they were going to deal with Leviathans I guess the writers had to put in a solution eventually =P. Not sure if Cas being coherent is a good thing or bad thing? Sam wasn't comatose when he was in there but he was in pretty bad shape. 

    ReplyDelete
  11. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 03:29

    Oh come on. The angels werent THAT bad. If I had to take angels or the neverending pointless monster of the week episodes for the remainder of the series, I'd say bring back the angels!

    I'm looking forward to this!! Cause it looks like some serious plot development is gonna happen! And I don't care whether it's Castiel, Bobby, angels, leviathans, return of John Wincester, or I don't know, God on a tortilla, I just want MAIN PLOT stuff!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Dahne12 April 2012 at 03:31

    Let's hope the writers of Supernatural are not using Wikipedia for their plans.  According to Wikipedia we may have 4-7 more angels to get through.  
    Sariel, Raguel, Remiel, Zadkiel, Jophiel, Haniel and Chamuel by Jewish tradition.  Sealtiel, Jegudiel, Barachiel andJerahmeel by Eastern Orthodox.  Even more frightening is the opening idea that archangel is just a job title, which would mean that when one died another would take its place.  That would be my Crowley hell line nightmare, a neverending supply of angels on SPN.

    ReplyDelete
  13. smallville94412 April 2012 at 03:32

    isnt there supossed to be 7 archangels though the only ones we know about Raphael, Gabriel, Lucifer and Michael are out of the picture but theres still 3 archangels unaccounted for that we dont know about it so its probaly an archangel we havent met yet

    ReplyDelete
  14. Bruce_F12 April 2012 at 03:32

     Agreed.  Super Sam would be an end of the series type of thing so negating everyone's powers is definitely the way to go.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Judy Smith12 April 2012 at 03:32

    I like the sound of this story.  Looking forward to seeing arch angels again.  I think it will be interesting.  I love how everyone always jumps the gun to negativity whenever a new episode description is given.  I had a feeling the angels would be back, especially with Cas back.  Plus I love Ben Edlund episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Nikki12 April 2012 at 03:33

     Archangels? Probably a trick. Prophet kid sounds like he may have knowledge, but I don't think he will be much help.
    I guess I have to see what leads up to this episode, cause the leviathans seem like they will pour over to season 8.

    ReplyDelete
  17. lsbloom12 April 2012 at 03:40

    I like Ben Edlund eps, so I'm willing to give it a shot. I don't mind the angels thing, it would be fun if the leviathans could eat them though because it would even out the power structure. The archangels were just too powerful to go anywhere after their arrival. 

    ReplyDelete
  18. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 03:41

    I'm wondering how on earth Dean and Sam are going to "fight off" two archangels, when they can't even defeat one without throwing themselves into a hole to hell. 

    And even if Castiel was in one mental piece he wouldn't be much help. They'd rip him to pieces the minute they saw him.

    ReplyDelete
  19. ZoeF12 April 2012 at 03:42

    Ugh. Just ugh. So much ugh.

    You know that feeling you get when you go to a school play, and all the kids are trying so hard, and think they are so good?

    Yeah.

    ReplyDelete
  20. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q12 April 2012 at 03:49

    I love Cas, and I loved the arch angels (Gabriel, even Raphael, all of them were awesome.  The regular angels ..other then cas, not so much), but.. I'm a bit skeptical about this episode.  To all of a sudden bring in two archangels after all this time is..odd?  

    ReplyDelete
  21. Drezza12 April 2012 at 03:54

    I loved this synopsis OMG!! Cas, Archangels, Prophets, Ben Edlund <3,Dean and Sam of course!! But please bring the Impala back too…. :'(

    ReplyDelete
  22. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 04:04

    My Favorite Things About the Angel-arcs: Castiel (the most interesting character in the show if you think about it), Changing Channels episode and the Gabriel character in general, Dean saved from hell, Dean angst about torturing people, the episode the boys forgot who they were and had jobs, Dean's favorite memories in heaven, Lucifer, seeing young John and Mary Winchester twice, Mary's saying "Angels watch over you" turning out to be literally true. 

    My Least Favorite Things About the Angel-arcs: Inconsistent angel powers,  "angels are really bad guys" cliche, they're waaaay too powerful, all the damn loop holes in general (thinking about it, why didn't Lucifer just kill Dean quickly like he did Bobby and Castiel during Swan Song? Or torture him from afar like Zach did? Why did he punch him? And lets not forget the whole non-existent handprint on Sam), All the angels other than Castiel, Gabriel, Joshua, Balthazar and Anna (because they're cardboard cutouts, including Michael, Uriel, Raphael, Zachariah, etc, basically all the bad guys because...they have no convincing motivation for their "bad" actions other than just apparently are dicks for no reason). 

    With all that said, I'm still glad the angels happened. But I'm glad their story is over, but I still want Castiel around. He's still far too fascinating a character. And I don't think there's any need for concern regarding two Archangels showing up. If angels were never again mentioned or showed up it'd be as weird as Crowley and demons never showing up again. It'll be like this huge plot hole. And for the record we haven't seen angels in this entire season (except for Castiel and the dead angels in episode one). I think we it's safe to be sure angels are no longer part of the plotline, except for cameos, which I think is an intriguing move. 

    Besides, I know this all has to do with God somehow. Castiel's resurrection. A prophet. Leviathans originally being put away by God himself. Also God was the biggest loose thread from season 5. And in order to tie it up, angels are needed. 

    /end completely unasked for opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  23. ZoeF12 April 2012 at 04:04

    I'm mourning my love for Edlund. He was my favorite but except for Hello Cruel World and Repo Man, everything he's done have been misses for me after Clap Your Hands.

    ReplyDelete
  24. BoxManLocke12 April 2012 at 04:07

    The Angels were great until they started to overstay their welcome in season 6, when there was already no place for them in the mythology anymore.
    My problem is not so much about the Angels themselves as it is about the negative impact on Sam and Dean's story. Just like in season five, they don't seem to be the story's main goal ; it's about this prophet dude who's caught between heaven and The Leviathans. Actually this is eerily familiar to the Anna situation and I frakkin' hated the bitch.

    And come on, what was the point of finally having a different and unique enemy if you're juste going to use the same old way of destroying it ?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 04:13

    What do you mean by same old way? I doubt the angels are going to help them destroy the Leviathans and the boys never used angels to destroy an enemy in past seasons either so it's not really a "same old way". 

    We don't know yet what the Leviathans are to Angels yet....and I'm very curious to find out whether they're as powerful, more powerful or weaker. 

    Sam and Dean's story hit the rocks the minute Hell, Ruby and demon blood came between the two and they both stopped developing. 

    ReplyDelete
  26. Dahne12 April 2012 at 04:13

    I recently compiled a list of every Supernatural episode's writer for an Ultimate Writer poll we're going to do over the summer hellatus.  What I found was before Ghostfacers, Ben Edlund could do no wrong for me.  Afterwards it was hit or miss. 
    I would add How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters into Edlund's win column though as well as HCW.  To me no episode this season has been funnier.  I find it interesting that big, serious  Cas stories seem to be all Edlund these days.  

    ReplyDelete
  27. jensenfan197812 April 2012 at 04:21

    Archangels again.  Well, we Cas to deal with and a prophet, so it makes sense.  I am looking forward to it

    ReplyDelete
  28. BoxManLocke12 April 2012 at 04:23

    I meant the prophet, not the Angel themselves, but it's all the same to me.

    When Castiel had the Leviathans inside him he didn't talk about them much or even seem to know what exactly they are. I'm just as excited in learning more about them as you are, but I didn't want it that way.

    I'm not necessarily asking about development, I know it's a whole lot to ask theses days. But I don't want them to be put on the sidelines in favor of something we've already witnessed several times.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 04:31

    Yeah. Stupid thing is, they had SO MUCH opportunity this Season to focus on Sam and Dean. SO MUCH. There was nothing but THEM. But they wasted it by having all these pointless episode with no real....anything from Sam and Dean. Just vague "I'm fine! ...but not really. But I'm not saying anything. ...Yup."  Only like the first two episodes, then a couple around when Bobby died, and then nothing again.  It's so ridiculous. It's like they forgot how the show worked. They're focusing too much on gimmicks and comedy. 

    ReplyDelete
  30. C P12 April 2012 at 04:43

    I pretty much agree with everything you said there. :)

    I loved Season 4 and 5 a lot. I don't want constant angel stuff back again because yeah, we're past that, but I want cameos too. Especially we don't know want has happened in Heaven since Cas died in episode 2. 

    I'm thinking whoever thinks the archangels get replaced may be right, only because if those two had been around when Cas was fighting the war in Season 6, I don't believe they'd have let him lead, since he was obviously still less powerful than archangels even after the power boost in Swan Song (He couldn't beat Raphael alone). 

    If so, I wonder if that means God showed up in Heaven? I mean, who else could promote angels to archangels and turn a kid into a prophet with lightning? In less He's still off the map, watching and taking some actions, but not showing himself to anyone. 

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sara12 April 2012 at 04:49

    Please kill the angel arcs before it kills my interest in this show. Let's get back to the boys. They keep saying they're going back to it being like S1 and back to Sam and Dean...I have yet to see that.

    ReplyDelete
  32. percysowner12 April 2012 at 04:50

     I can come up with 6-7 characters that I personally find more interesting than Crowley.  Sam, Dean, John, Gabriel, Crowley, Balthazar and Meg appeal to me more.  Heck, I'd like to explore Rufus, if he weren't dead.  I personally think that Castiel has gone as far as he can in Supernatural and I am sick of angels, Archangels and frankly I really don't want God to actually be in the Supernatural universe. 

    This is not my dream come true, by any means.  I hope Edlund can pull it off and I hope this season doesn't go completely off the rails.  I will wait and see.

    ReplyDelete
  33. BoxManLocke12 April 2012 at 04:55

     I still haven't forgiven him for Monster Movie.

    ReplyDelete
  34. C P12 April 2012 at 05:03

    If you are who I think you are, if I remeber correctly, you thought Cas had run his course after 4x01 Lazarus Rising. 

    Just because he isn't human doesn't mean there isn't room for him to be around. 

    ReplyDelete
  35. C P12 April 2012 at 05:05

    Whether or not the angels are around it's just an excuse. The writers had all the time in the world to bring out the brotherly bond, instead they had them fight for half the season.  

    ReplyDelete
  36. Dahne12 April 2012 at 05:13

    Sorry, have to disagree.  Monster Movie is one of my favorite episodes he wrote.  However I will cop to never forgiving him for Ghostfacers.  I also demand he give me back the time it took to watch the ultra boring The Man Who Would Be King and I should be paid for getting through the truly horrid 3rd Man.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Dahne12 April 2012 at 05:17

    I agree that they need to stay as far away from mytharcing God as possible.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.  

    ReplyDelete
  38. C P12 April 2012 at 05:18

    Exactly. 

    ReplyDelete
  39. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 05:23

    It's too late. Now if they don't finish the God thing, it'll be this big question mark / ball eternally dropped regarding why he saved Dean and Sam in first episode of Season 5, and why he keeps resurrecting Castiel. It's the price they must pay for doing the whole Heaven, Hell, Satan, Angels myth. 

    ReplyDelete
  40. C P12 April 2012 at 05:28

    Once again, you speak my mind!

    Not to mention Death, who really seems to have a bone to pick with God? 

    ReplyDelete
  41. Sara12 April 2012 at 05:35

    I don't think you're understanding me here. The angel storyline is tired and old. If they want to get it back to being about the Winchesters they need to stick to that. Not say they are and then pull out the angels again at the end of the season. I'm tired of the show focusing on the angels more than the boys. It's not what the show is about. I'm not blaming it on other characters, I'm tired of these other characters upstaging the real heroes. Especially when its uninteresting.

    ReplyDelete
  42. C P12 April 2012 at 05:39

    Old is a matter of opinion, I still think there is a few more questions to answer and it's not so bad as long as the angels aren't always around. They could be treated like demons, other creatures like ghosts. See them occasionally. 

    Again, if the writers wanted to they could easily keep the focus on the boys even with them fighting angels. 

    ReplyDelete
  43. BoxManLocke12 April 2012 at 05:51

    Well, this proves Edlund has yet to write an episode that everybody hated. That's probably why he's really popular among all the writers. But the Castiel fans hype him so much it's not even funny.

    Not saying I liked Ghostfacers btw. Stupid concept, but the execution was fine to me.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Jimi Sturges12 April 2012 at 06:11

    It's about time we see some more angels and of they are Archangels I wonder if they could beat the Leviathans in a fight i mean they are a powerful species.

    ReplyDelete
  45. SupernaturallyMe12 April 2012 at 06:22

    The fact that Bobby isn't mentioned has me slightly worried...but, other than that, I have to admit that this episode sounds pretty darn interesting.

    I guess the archangels were too powerful to be written off for good.  I'm curious to find out what their take on the Leviathons is.

    Random, totally unrelated question: Where do angels go when they die?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Sara12 April 2012 at 06:30

    Not for me. I was fine with the angels and even Cas in season 4 and 5. But after that they just don't seem relevant anymore. What purpose is there for the angels now? Apocalypse is over. The angels only came down on earth is centuries to pave way for it in season 4 anyway. Them hanging around makes no sense.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Phantom244812 April 2012 at 06:37

    Its possible that the Archangels are probably going to use the Prophet to finally find the Almighty, after all they have been searching for him for some time, more to the point, Archangels do not like the Leviathans and according to Psalm 75 the Almighty is said to "break the heads of Leviathan in pieces", so it is possible that the Archangels have realised that the only way to stop the Leviathan is to find the Almighty as the latter killed the female version to prevent them populating the Earth and they have realised they maybe out of their league?

    Or... they could be looking to find out whether there are any KIlbits left as according to Jewish mythology, these are the creatures Leviathians fear as they cling to them and kill them apparently, but thats my two cents.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Phantom244812 April 2012 at 06:40

    Probably to nothingness, according to some scholars and some people here will probably be annoyed by this, Angels are created for their task and are then destroyed when it is completed, that does not mean however they can got come back apparently.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Sybilla7512 April 2012 at 07:11

    I'm actually really happy to see angels again, i think the apocalypse story is what has been overplayed but i don't see why the angels can't have a place on the show now that this threat is hopefully over. I mean they are a species just like demons and way wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more interesting than the Leviathans. Plus, i really want to see where they stand in the whole Leviathan mess. What i found weird though is that there are suddenly 2 archangels that Cas never mentioned in S6, at least, i mean if they were against him one would think he would have killed them too and if they were with him, why didnt he ise them against Raphael? i suppose they maybe were neutral or something lol.

    Oh well, totally looking forward to this ep! Ben Edlund is always my favourite writer and definately the stronger this season along with Sera Gamble, so surely it'll be great!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Justine Kubica12 April 2012 at 07:16

    Cass is awake? How is that possible? And also, so there are more than 4  Archangels? Sounds great! And it's Ben Edlund's episode,  so fantastic!

    ReplyDelete
  51. sharonally12 April 2012 at 07:32

    The only Archangel that I  would be interested in seeing again would be Gabriel.But when the show latches on to something they find it hard to let it go which is why I  am not unsurprised that Angels pop back up again.Ben Edlund can be a hit and miss but he loves writing for Castiel so I  see why he would have this episode.

    Sams story has been a waste of time then they transferred it to Cas who despite being a angel is apparently been comatosed while Sam not only was able to walk around but hunt in the hospital  and leap tall buildings in a single bound at the same time.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Kati12 April 2012 at 08:00

    I like that a prophet = an archangel sighting. A nice piece of continuity. Remember Chuck? It was said back then that all prophets are protected by the higher uppers. Awesome! And now that heaven is all upside down and inside out, I bet they would give their wings to have a prophet to mooch off. 

    ReplyDelete
  53. Sybilla7512 April 2012 at 08:21

    I think it's because he took Sam's craziness when it was more advanced, I mean Sam was lying in a bed and unable to see anything else than Lucifer by the time Cas shifted the craziness and i hope this is explained but maybe Cas put himself willingly in this comatose state so that he wouldn't be dangerous, cuz it's just weird to have an angel catatonic i dunno. Off course, probably the real reason is that they needed Cas out of comission for some MOTW episodes lol. I wonder though why he's suddenly awake, i hope it's not just cuz.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Shimmerinstars7712 April 2012 at 08:57

    Castiel and the Angels:  Whats dead and gone, should have stayed dead and gone. Kripkes and Gambles words have stopped meaning anything seasons ago like in Season 5 when they said the Angel storyline was exhausted (which was true they did enough damage to the show). Why plug this season as the boys stripped of everything if they are not going to stick with it instead resorting to easy fixes and fan pandering  Why did they kill Bobby off (the boys only family)  if they are just going to keep resurrecting Castiel( now a third time) and  for what it looks like the finale.too. My nightmare come true you would thnk after Season 6 and the joke Castiel became from trying to repeatedly force fit him in the show he'd be banned from finales
    Hopefully Castiel up and talking is all we see of him. As it does say Sam and Dean fight off the arc angelsand again why are they back in the show. And lord knows we don;t need to see Castile swope in and save the day For a guy who swore for the first 3 seasons of Supernatural he'd never have Angels his show Kripke just can't seem to say good bye to them especially one.
    The show just can't seem to stayed focus on its heart  the brothers and its killing it. 

    ReplyDelete
  55. Tibbs12 April 2012 at 09:30

    Some of you fans need to really get a grip. This has happened before on these boards where ppl are upset at the episode description and it ends up being better than you thought. The writers aren't killing this show. The fandom is.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Tibbs12 April 2012 at 09:31

    As it stands they will need a powerful being in order to give them an idea on fighting the Leviathans. This episode sounds like it could be killer.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Tibbs12 April 2012 at 09:35

    Remember, episode descriptions can be incorrect. Case in point, the mention of Lucifer's Sword in the season 4 episode "On the Head of a Pin"

    ReplyDelete
  58. percysowner12 April 2012 at 09:48

     Well it they go that way, I hope they explain what these previously unmentioned Archangels were doing during Apocalypse #1 and where the heck were they during the great Raphael, Castiel war.  Because they should have had some input. I mean, I think they would have picked a side or at least made some kind of move when Castiel started slaughtering angels.

    I'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

    ReplyDelete
  59. percysowner12 April 2012 at 09:58

     Nope, I thought Cas had a real place in season 4.  I was less happy with the angel with the heart of gold version in season 5 and really found his use as comic relief to be annoying during that season. Uriel who had little experience o earth seemed to comprehend how people and technological things worked.  I was perfectly ready to have him go be the new sheriff in heaven and not interfere on earth. I freely admit that if I hadn't seen him again after season 5, I would have been happy, although I did like the final resolution of his season six storyline.

    I didn't much like or trust the character, but he had a great intro and an interesting arc in season 4. After that I lost interest.  I really never liked the Archangel part of the storyline, so getting them back was not on my list of ways to pique my interest for the final episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  60. percysowner12 April 2012 at 10:03

     Eh, this is Supernatural, they can say that Castiel was resurrected by a force other than God.  Heck, they introduced the fates, maybe they decided to try and impose order on the world after the Leviathan mess. 

    I have enough trouble with the trashing of every religion other than Christianity.  God has his place in other shows, this one is not one of them IMHO.  I wish they had stayed away from the entire God theme and I hope they keep God as a disinterested and only hinted at figure this season.

    ReplyDelete
  61. percysowner12 April 2012 at 10:06

     I don't think Death had a bone to pick with God.  I think he was stating the idea that God is mortal, although extremely long lived.  I thought Death was defining his job everything dies eventually and he is part of the process.  He is the one creature they have categorically stated God did not create, simply that they are both so old that neither one is sure who came first.  That was an idea that I could get behind.

    If I want to see God saving the world, I'll watch Ten Commandments or the eternal word channel, not Supernatural.

    ReplyDelete
  62. percysowner12 April 2012 at 10:13

     Since I never understood why Cas was incapacitated this actually doesn't bother me.  Sam was collapsing because of lack of sleep, Cas had been sleeping and as an angel was not subject to human frailties.  Sam was dealing with HIS emotional trauma.  Cas was dealing with the effects of that trauma second hand.  The whole healing Sam thing made no sense except as a way to get out of the corner that the writers had painted themselves into with Sam having "the worst hell ever".  Frankly Sam was functioning just fine until Repo Man, they could have just kept that up.  Instead they decided that they were done with that story now and if it ever were to resurface it would be in the form of Castiel, the great and powerful.

    Sorry, but I thought the resolution of Sam's extremely brief psychotic break was LAME.

    ReplyDelete
  63. KatHale12 April 2012 at 10:24

    Interesting...Since Anna said that only four angels have seen God,I was pretty sure there are only four archangels(the ones we know of).
    That's pretty cool,actually.I hope we get to see(or at east hear) where they stood in the Apocalypse and later in the Civil War.Archangels are bad news most of the time,but we'll see...

    I guess Kevin is the kid who'll be in the final episodes then.Getting hit by lightning and then finding himself in the middle of a war with the first monsters that walked the earth.Poor little guy...

    ReplyDelete
  64. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 11:42

    Again, too late. Joshua made it kind of clear that it was God who did these things. Maybe he was lying. Still if they change who it was it would again show Supernatural as this inconsistent show that shows it's puppets strings. In other words, it makes it too clear that it's all fake, a story created by inconsistent writers who can't make up their minds and it breaks the magic, bringing it one more notch down into mediocrity. 

    By the hints already given in this season and season 5, I think you're going to be disappointed. I mean, unless the hints are just  a bluff, which I don't think they are since I thought the hints that Bobby were gonna die were bluffs, but they weren't. 

    ReplyDelete
  65. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 11:45

    God can't save the world. I mean, if they did, again inconsistent writing cause it was already determined that God has no interest in meddling in the affairs of its creations. 

    But then again, the writers aren't the best in the world...We'll have to see. 

    ReplyDelete
  66. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 11:49

    I really don't think the writers will go that direction...I mean unless they're REALLY suicidal. "Hey, lets kill God!" "Great idea!"


    I just want God involved enough to explain why the hell Castiel is ressurected and why he's so interested in Sam and Dean, give the boys the knowledge, or hint they need or whatever they hell they need to kill the Leviathans and disappear again. 
    Not actually do it himself, but help the boys or whatever God needs to do with as little DOING as possible, if you get what I mean. But i'm pretty nearly sure God will make an appearance with all the hints dropped...

    ReplyDelete
  67. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 11:58

    You found the angel with the heart of gold annoying. I found that "all angels are dicks" to be annoying. It's the stupidest cliche that used to be original a billion years ago. It's to the point where I actually want to see an actually "good" angel or a good creature among all these evil creatures. If there's evil, there's good, but no one ever wants to plays that card or that the only good out there can be done by humans, and it's flawed good at any rate. But for some reason, perfect evil is all the rage. 


    I think that's why I originally was thrilled by the angels. Then they turned out to be jerks. I loved Castiel cause despite it all he at least tried his best to do good. Out of all the mythological creatures on this show, he showed to be the most human and that was the most interesting thing. 

    Yeah there was funny stuff. But they weren't that bad. I mean now the monsters of the week are more comic reliefs than Castiel had been in Season 5. The jokes have gotten stupider and stupider on Supernatural.  

    ReplyDelete
  68. Amber J Gardner12 April 2012 at 12:02

    I agree. And like you said, just one episode, perhaps even 3 episodes, out of 23. 

    And Castiel doesn't count cause he's part of the Leviathan mytharc now. 

    So I very much doubt angels are back for good. 

    ReplyDelete
  69. chris68412 April 2012 at 12:27

    I don't understand the logic that the show can't be about Sam and Dean and have angels as occasional guests - just like they have demons, monsters, ghosts, Death, etc.  That's like saying Mystery Spot wasn't about Sam and Dean because Gabriel was on it.

    ReplyDelete
  70. chris68412 April 2012 at 12:34

     I completely agree.  One of my biggest gripes this season was that I didn't feel like they were building a story. It felt like the writers were just thinking, "OK, we've got five more episodes to fill.  What funny scenarios can we come up to kill the time?"  rather than thinking, "OK, this is where Sam and Dean are this place.  What would they do next?"

    ReplyDelete
  71. JMC0012 April 2012 at 12:34

    Kind of wished it said angels instead of archangels. Just for the fact they established there were only 4. Unless they are really not archangels and only present themselves as that. But then again there could be an explainer such as a prophet is protected by archangels (that was established with Chuck) and since there was technically no archangels that when the lightning struck him two angels were transformed into archangels and want the kid because he was the last thing that God touched. I mean I assume angels would be looking for God as they are pretty much leaderless.

    Though like I said they could just be presenting themselves as that and if the episode summary said who they really were it would spoil it.

    But if anything Ben Edlund will have some kind of explainer in there. Some people will go "OK, I like it" and some people will hate it.

    ReplyDelete
  72. chris68412 April 2012 at 12:49

     "The Angels were great until they started to overstay their welcome in
    season 6, when there was already no place for them in the mythology
    anymore."

    I've heard this comment before, and I'm really curious what you thought the mythology in season 5 was.  To me in the end it was the post-apocalypse chaos that brought about unforseen developments (alliance between Heaven and Hell, fight for power, and Purgatory).  I thought it was brilliant that they turned Sam and Dean's fight for free will, which had gone unquestioned in season 5, and put a spin on it showing that sometimes populations aren't ready for it.  I have a lot of problems with the execution of season 6, but I loved the thought put into the main arc.

    As for the negative impact of angels on Sam and Dean's story, I might buy this argument with seasons 4 and 5 but I don't see it anymore.  Sam and Dean were a little too removed from the Purgatory (not angel) activity last season, but this season the angels have barely had a presence.  By Purgatory activity, I mean what was going on with not only Cas and Raphael, but with Crowley, Death, Eve, and Samuel.

    ReplyDelete
  73. chris68412 April 2012 at 12:51

    There's an awful lot of "prejudging" going on here.  *ducking*

    ReplyDelete
  74. rehabber12 April 2012 at 12:57

     PLEASE NO LEVIATHANS in season 8, they have been a big dud for me.  As much as I love this show and the only eps I have truly hated have been the ones with those ghostfacers in them, this season has not had much direction for me.  I have enjoyed most of the eps but they just don't move things along much.  Just finished another marathon from season one and I miss the family talks, but am soooooooo glad Misha is back and I loved the Angel/Demon arc starting in s4.

    ReplyDelete
  75. rehabber12 April 2012 at 13:06

     I loved Castiel and thought he brought spice into the story, but since Misha played several characters and he was great as Hippie Cas, I just want him to stay in some character.  Maybe back to being Jimmy, but Misha is what helped make season 4 & 5 my favorites.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Mia49412 April 2012 at 13:16

    As tired as the angel storyline might be, I actually like this, sounds like a great episode material.

    Also, did we ever get to know who the 4th archangel was? If not, I guess it's ok to bring him in. Also, what's the chance Michael escaped Lucifer's cage and is back? Raphael and Gabriel are dead, right, so it kind of is the only option?

    ReplyDelete
  77. rehabber12 April 2012 at 13:17

     Well said, I have complained before of "fans" trashing an ep before it is even aired.  I love Ben and this one sounds good.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Ally712 April 2012 at 13:52

    I wish I could like about 100000x time, it keep on happening every single time -_-

    ReplyDelete
  79. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 13:56

    Huh.. just when you thought Castiel was the only loose end left to tie in the angel story line... not really looking forward to more angels and a new prophet.  I was hoping he'd have to burn out his remaining power to beat back the hallucinations, and we'd be angel-free. I was looking forward to the possibility of a human Cass.  I AM looking forward to seeing him come out of his crazy to talk for a while, though.

    I guess this is also the potential for another quick fix.  I guess I wouldn't mind as much if the prophet just hinted at what the boys would have to do to beat the Leviathans, but I would hate it if the archangels just snapped their fingers.  I don't know if it's actually possible, since the Leviathans might be older than the angels, but still.  Here's hoping these guys only last one episode.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 14:00

    Unfortunately, I feel like the Leviathans are headed toward season 8, too.  It just seems like there aren't enough episodes left to wrap up the story line, especially since they haven't found a possible way to kill them en masse, so I could see it spilling over.  I think they've been a dud too, though.  The writers really dropped the ball with the whole story, and they've been an annoying afterthought all season.  But hey.  Now that Bobby's going to be visible, maybe he has a solution?

    ReplyDelete
  81. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 14:03

    I'm with you on this one.. pretty much everything you said actually, haha.  I loved the angels in seasons 4 and 5, but I think things started going south for me in season 6.  I felt like it was time to move on.  But when it all comes down to it, I can't complain - the angels gave me Castiel, who  is one of my absolute favorite parts of the show.  

    ReplyDelete
  82. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 14:05

    I'm trying not to be worried about the lack of Bobby - I figure with their epic job of keeping his return under wraps, maybe they're just trying to play his role in everything close to the vest.  After all, isn't he in danger of becoming a vengeful spirit in the next episode?  I don't think they want to reveal how that ends too quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 14:09

    I feel like there's more of a possibility that Gabriel's alive and kicking than Michael - I don't think he really wants to escape the cage.  In his mind, his destiny was to fight (and strike down) Lucifer, and regardless of where they are, he's attempting to fulfill that prophecy.  So unless he kills Luci, or they decide to fly the coop together, I think they're stuck down there for a while.

    Maybe that's just wishful thinking, though - I miss Gabriel!  He grew on me really fast, and it's hard to believe he hasn't appeared in an episode since season 5. 

    ReplyDelete
  84. isleofskye12 April 2012 at 14:24

    Oh, Please no!

    It was bad enough to have to suffer the return of Castiel, and now we're going to have to sit through a whole new heavenly host of arch-angels too!

    All I want to see are Sam, Dean, the Impala, their bickering brotherly bond and the family business!

    I wish the writers would do an Angel spin-off and they could have as much Heavenly stuff as they want!

    ReplyDelete
  85. JMC0012 April 2012 at 14:35

    Michael, Lucifer, Gabriel & Raphael

    ReplyDelete
  86. C P12 April 2012 at 14:57

    I don't think they'd kill him either. 

    ReplyDelete
  87. C P12 April 2012 at 15:01

    I'd have to watch Death scenes again. But I remember thinking in Season 7 premiere Dean and Sam calling him to kill Cas and thinking maybe that think he'll settle for killing one who thinks he's God.

    I had to have had a reason for thinking that way. I don't think he was just pointing it out. 

    I'm not sure. 

    ReplyDelete
  88. C P12 April 2012 at 15:03

    He helps but doesn't get too involved. I think he just wants everyone to think for themselves and do the right thing. I bet he's super frustrated with the angels, lol

    ReplyDelete
  89. C P12 April 2012 at 15:07

    That's the first time I hear of that. I've read quite a bit on angels, never heard that. I think it's safe to say SPN is not following that scholarly lore.

    ReplyDelete
  90. C P12 April 2012 at 15:12

    True! Yeah makes sense as they said prophets are protected by archangels like Raphael was protecting Chuck.

    ReplyDelete
  91. C P12 April 2012 at 15:19

    I have to disagree about Season 7. Not a lot of brotherly love.

    As for angels, as I said before, it's the writers, not the myth-arc enemy, that is the problem. 

    ReplyDelete
  92. C P12 April 2012 at 15:21

    The 4 archangels I aways took to mean Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Lucifer. Lucifer was an archangel before he fell. 

    ReplyDelete
  93. LaurienWinkel12 April 2012 at 15:32

    Ben Edlund!... describtion sounds a bit odd, but hey, Ben created this ep, so I'm psyched for it no matter what the press release says. 

    ReplyDelete
  94. MarissaAO12 April 2012 at 15:50

    Ooh, I'm excited for this! CASTIEL!!!!! I bet he's going to show up to confront the archangels and we'll get more drama about what Cas did in heaven. 
    And it makes sense that they're bringing angels and prophets back into the mix, since the Leviathan come from Abrahamic lore and were apparently killed by Gabriel. 

    ReplyDelete
  95. rehabber12 April 2012 at 16:05

     I can't think of any thing that would make me happier than have a spin-off series with Castiel, unless they give Misha a character to play in season 8 to stay with SPN.  J2 & Misha have great chemistry together.

    ReplyDelete
  96. isleofskye12 April 2012 at 16:16

    Dear Rehabber,

    I would love to be able to agree with you and say that I love Castiel and the Winchesters together but I don't; neither do I see the same chemistry that you do, and I would certainly dislike for him to be present in a hypothetical season 8.

    For me he adds absolutely nothing to the show, but I'm not going to say any more on that because I know that you and many others like him.
    We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
    As for him to get a show of his own; I'll be the first to be happy about that.

    ReplyDelete
  97. CyanaT12 April 2012 at 16:51

    I agree. Lucifer was presented as the 4th archangel on the show along with Michael, Raphael and Gabriel. In H&H Anna said only "4 Angels" had seen "God's Face" and she wasn't one of them. I always took her statement to mean the 4 archangels had not only seen but talked directly to "God" before "God" left Heaven.  

    If the show suddenly introduces more archangels, which is theologically possible, where were they when Lucifer was freed and what was their stance on the apocalypse? Were they also "good" sons and daughters and believed their Father wanted the apocalypse? Or were they (or at least one of them) more like Gabriel and on "Humanity's side" (Castiel also came to adopt the same stance) because they knew "God" favored humans.  
    To our knowledge Michael and Lucifer are still in the Cage unless Crowley found a way to let just Archangel Michael out, which is possible because Crowley and Godstiel had a definite falling out and Crowley wants Amnesia!Cas badly. It also negates"Godstiel's" command that Crowley guard the Cage to keep "Michael" in; Crowley and Raphael formed a brief allegiance, Crowley and Michael may do the same particularly if Crowley thinks Michael can stop the Leviathans. 

    ReplyDelete
  98. keithfan12 April 2012 at 17:26

    Always a good time for more angels, just as long as they are good ones! We could all use a few more of those (I know I could)!

    ReplyDelete
  99. percysowner12 April 2012 at 19:31

     With a new show runner coming in, even if the Leviathans were slated to continue into next season, it is now up for grabs.  Carver could look at the Leviathans and say "real potential" or "can't work" and proceed accordingly.  Even if it is left open ended, that doesn't mean they won't close it in episode 2 season 8 (Lord willing and the creek don't rise).

    ReplyDelete
  100. percysowner12 April 2012 at 19:36

     You may well be right, but technically the only Castiel resurrections Joshua talked about was the one after he went kablooey at the end of season four.  We can guess that the resurrection at the end of season 5 was God, but that has never been confirmed and who knows how he resurrected after melting into the water supply in season 7. 

    ReplyDelete
  101. chris68412 April 2012 at 20:06

    I agree with what you said about the 4 archangels. With this summary, I'm expecting that these will be angels rather than archangels. These summaries often don't distinguish between monsters and demons, so it makes sense that the archangels description might be wrong too.

    On the Crowley theory, I don't see him letting Michael out. If Lucifer got out Crowley would be top on his torture list. I think the Cas line that you were referring to was not that they need to keep "Michael in Lucifer's cage," but that they need to keep "Michael and Lucifer's cage."

    ReplyDelete
  102. chris68412 April 2012 at 20:43

    I just reread your post and think I may have misunderstood the first time. I've gotten the feeling this season that the writers are bored with Sam and Dean and aren't even trying to write a new chapter for them. Instead they'd rather focus on a secondary character who hasn't been covered as much. Last year it was Cas, this year Bobby. Is that what you're getting at?

    ReplyDelete
  103. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 22:42

    Very true - I wouldn't mind it spilling over into season 8 for a few episodes, but I don't want it to be another season-long arc.  Really, I wish they just would have dealt with it more often this season.  I'm looking forward to seeing what the change in show runner brings us.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Lissie_Bee12 April 2012 at 22:46

    I think Misha would be fantastic in his own show, whether it's supernaturally related or not (though he does seem to love the sci-fi/fantasy/supernatural genre lately).  He's shown so many sides of himself in the different roles and guest spots he's had, and I can't believe someone hasn't snatched him up yet.  I don't know that I see him being offered a spot as a regular in season 8, but I'm hoping they'll leave him alive so that he has the potential to come back and visit every now and again.  I love him with the Winchesters, but I think the show really needs to get back to its most basic roots (as much as I'll miss Castiel's presence).

    ReplyDelete
  105. Joanna12 April 2012 at 23:16

    sounds awesomeee!!! can't walt!!!

    ReplyDelete
  106. brunna13 April 2012 at 00:02

    The ONE THING that came to my mind when I read about the archangels is Adam. They need to find a way to bring him back...
    Oh, and didn't I mention??? This episode looks AWESOME!!!

    ReplyDelete
  107. neon_ruby13 April 2012 at 00:32

    Meg and Leviathan stuff sounds good. The Archangels...not so much.

    ReplyDelete
  108. ScottA13 April 2012 at 00:40

    Maybe the Michael that shows up will be John Travolta.

    ReplyDelete
  109. ScottA13 April 2012 at 00:46

    The mini-prophet could be there to set up S8. I'd like to see them go after god. It'd also be interesting to find out that all this "angel travel" from past to future and such has had a severely negative effect on their bodies. They've got to find god AND they're running out of time. (Sorry, painkillers again.)

    ReplyDelete
  110. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 00:46

    There was a hint regarding what happened to Castiel in Born Again Identity. When Cass said Daphne told him "...God wanted her to find me."


    Again, this could be a bluff or a red herring, but I have a feeling we're suppose to think it's God. 

    ReplyDelete
  111. Dahne13 April 2012 at 00:53

    I would be ecstatic too about a Castiel spin-off, just for a different reason.  :-P  I'm also rooting for Misha Collins to get a job as a main character in a comedy somewhere.  I think he would be golden and a true asset to any comedy show.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Kerinda Hartson13 April 2012 at 01:12

    aww crap not this again that it season 7 sucks! I miss the car and now this come on. that all I need to say.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Folie-lex13 April 2012 at 01:34

    YAY Ben Edlund!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  114. Sara13 April 2012 at 01:38

    Really? Hmmm I thought the fandom was the reason the show is still on the air.

    ReplyDelete
  115. ScottA13 April 2012 at 01:47

    They caught both Gabriel and Raphael in holy oil traps and nailed Michael with a holy molotov. They also dispatched TWO horsemen with nothing more than a slap fight. (War and Pestilence) As much as I hate it, the "big boys" haven't necessarily been tough.

    ReplyDelete
  116. lsbloom13 April 2012 at 02:04

    Maybe the archangels can bring back Bobby? That'd be worth it, wouldn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  117. ScottA13 April 2012 at 02:12

    Maybe John will be one of the archangels.

    ReplyDelete
  118. rehabber13 April 2012 at 02:30

     He has the kind of humor I do, warped.  lol

    ReplyDelete
  119. Dahne13 April 2012 at 02:33

    I don't see anyone saying that Sam is only going to have 30 seconds of airtime in this thread like people were doing with the Time After Time synopsis.  Nor do I see anyone claiming that Dean will not have a story line this season like people did in the Girl Next Door synopsis.  I see no claims at all about what will definitely happen in an episode that no one has seen.  What I do see is that the Supernatural fandom is sharply divided about whether angels have been a good or bad thing for the series overall.

    ReplyDelete
  120. lordbradiii13 April 2012 at 03:08

    In regards to your random question: I'm not sure if they intended me to interpret it this way, but the way I've always thought about it...whenever they "kill" a demon, or an angel, instead of "sending them back," I assumed it meant their very essence was killed. Meaning they don't "go" anywhere, they cease to exist, physically and metaphysically. But I'm sure not everyone thinks that. My 2 cents. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  121. chris68413 April 2012 at 03:13

     You know, I've heard that "30 seconds" example used before, and while I don't remember the quote it was pulled from (and certainly don't remember anyone using the word "definitely" in their predictions), my guess is it was sarcasm used to express an opinion that Sam's storyline isn't getting enough attention.  I did, however, remember an exchange on the Slice Girls promo, and I pulled a couple of comments that got hit with accusations of judging an episode before it airs.  Here's one:

    "Really? I mean really?

    So amazon childs are the ones killing fathers? Which means Dean has to kill his
    own daughter? More unnecessary Dean angst? Just for the sake of some Jensen
    shirtless scenes? Lame plot much?
    When i watched the promo, i got the same feeling I did after watched that
    Manequin episode. 
    At least this put Dean and Sam on the same foot: both banged monsters. If Lydia
    is one and not a human influenced by a monster. Wait and see.


    By the way, the promo that shows Dean dancing a little, I suppose it's
    because of the night with Lydia."

    Here's another:

    "Oh good lord just no thank you


    I might be back for episode 14 I hear Sam actually does more than
    just research in that one"

    In both cases, they're clearly opinion.  Not really so different from the anti-angel opinions I'm reading on this thread.

    ReplyDelete
  122. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 03:53

    I agree, Sharonally... although Castiel is "technically" catatonic, not comatose. Sam's "Hell" being transferred to Castiel, still makes me furious. I thought SG was a more creative writer than that. I *know* Sam was in really, really bad shape but the brother bond worked before to keep Sam's Luci/Cage memories at bay and she really let me and many of us down when Cas did his insta-fix, excuse me "Cas sacrificed his own sanity to save Sam" (insert eyeroll). Likely the only time Sam's condition will be brought up is in the less than a minute exchange that was in 7.18 - not that it needs to be belabored but the way it was resolved was really a disappointing shortcut.  

    These are *my feelings* on the way Sam's "Hell" was resolved and some of you may vehemently disagree with my stance, but I have a right to my opinion. 

    ReplyDelete
  123. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 03:55

    Well said. I agree completely. 

    ReplyDelete
  124. Ally713 April 2012 at 04:09

    ^^; I sure hope not...I want Bobby to stay dead. He would destory all the emotions of Death,s door, it was the perfect goodbye. I won't mind having him as a ghost (as long as he doesn't stay forever.....at least not after Dick's taken care of).

    And I'm saying that as a HUGE Bobby's fan who cried her eyes out and was screaming and jumping when we saw him at the end of Party On, garth. 

    ReplyDelete
  125. BoxManLocke13 April 2012 at 04:20

    I don't see many people actually judging the episode before it airs here. I don't know if the episode will be entertaining or not, the point is, we just didn't want the Angels back. Period.
    Even if the episode turns out to be a classic (I sure hope it is !), that won't change my mind and I hope they'll go back to heaven real quick.

    ReplyDelete
  126. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 04:22

    I'm nodding with you and percysowner. I actually kind of like (ducks rotten vegetables :)  ) the leviathans. I see the problem with "ending the Leviathans and Dick Roman" in the S7 finale as the show has made it seem as if the levis now hold many important positions in politics, to cruise lines, to funding archaeological expeditions to buying up mom & pop shops. In short, they're everywhere now. Even if Dick Roman is killed in the finale who's to say Dick Roman doesn't have a Boss. 

    But.... then again, the show dropped all the "Alphas are building armies" from S6 that I thought would be at least partially carried over to S7. 

    ReplyDelete
  127. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 04:26

    If it wasn't for Castiel turning taking in the souls at the end of Season 6, I wouldn't be here and still be watching SPN. In fact, I had stopped watching SPN during 6 until a friend told me there was gonna be a seventh season and I wanted to see why on earth it was continuing.


    Because what else can they do? Sam and Dean have been through it all. The stakes are dead. The first half of Season 6 barely kept my attention and once Sam got his soul back, there was no reason in my mind to keep watching. 
    The only reason I found interest again was Castiel because he's an untouched main character. While Dean and Sam been through all sorts of changes, they're done changing. Bobby never changed. So what's left? Castiel. By having him change, it became interesting to see in what form. The stakes were back because the conclusion became unclear again. Castiel truly evil  or not? Will he die or not? This you can't ask about Sam and Dean anymore cause they've been answered with finality. 
    The problem with Season 7 is that they ruined it. Is Castiel evil or not? Apparently not since he willingly gave up the power and then did his best to save Sam. Answered. Will Castiel die or not? Apparently not since he keeps coming back to life. Answered. Not only answered, but answered in predictable ways. Okay, so that sort of died. What's left? Leviathans. That's it. They killed Bobby so we must kill them. We've been here before with YED except it's less exciting because we already did that with YED and YED was much more...personal. So in the end, I agree with you (even though it doesn't sound like it, eh?). The show needs to get back to more personal stories with the boys. But the problem and what a lot of people I don't think want to admit, that maybe all Sam and Dean's personal stories are done. 

    I watched the first episode of Supernatural again. I then later watched Out With The Old. There are no angels. No Castiel. No Bobby. Just the boys. Technically, there's no real reason why this episode shouldn't be like the first season of Supernatural.  But it's not. Not even close. Why? No, it's not because the Impala is also missing.
    Back in the past, in the first seasons, when they did stand alone monster episodes, they still worked. Why? Because despite it all Sam and Dean had real personal attachments to the people they were trying to save. Remember Heart, the werewolf girl they were forced to kill? Remember the episode with the ghost little girl in the Hotel and Sam saved a child by diving in the pool?  These situations were not only taken seriously for one thing (now in these current episodes the deaths and threats are more comedic than scary), they mattered more to Sam and Dean. The outcomes mattered. 

    Now as long as they kill the monster, it doesn't really matter if they saved the person. Its not like they had any personal attachments to them.So if you take away Castiel and the angels and all of that and keep things as they are, it's not going to make a better show. Remember, Castiel and the angels have been gone all season long and I'm confident to say this season has been the lowest quality seasons thus far, storytelling wise because there are no stakes. There are no personal attachments. There is no reason to care. 

    Castiel and the angels have nothing to do with it. 

    ReplyDelete
  128. chris68413 April 2012 at 04:48

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion that you don't want the angels back!  But I think expecting to hate the return of angels before you see how it plays out is expecting to hate at least part of the episode - same as expecting to hate watching Sam researching while Dean time travels is expecting to hate part of an episode. Neither reaction is wrong.  They're both opinions based on past experiences with the show.

    I just get wary when it seems that people are thinking that one opinion is more right than another, or are scolding other people for having a negative opinion based on a promo or episode summary (which I saw during the period of the Time After Time and Slice Girl promos).

    ReplyDelete
  129. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 05:11

    I love Castiel. I really do. But god, no spin off. Please no. It just wouldn't work. It'd be horrible. Castiel doesn't work by himself or even with just other angels and demons. 


    If it weren't for Dean, Castiel wouldn't have the fan base he currently has.
    Also, if it was just Sam, Dean and the Impala, bickering and having brotherly bond moments and killing bad things and nothing else, the show would be canceled mid season just for the simple fact that there would be no story. 

    ReplyDelete
  130. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 05:19

    Because I think too much, have too much time, and obsess over this show. More unasked-for-opinions that has more to do with the general comments and less to do with the press release for episode 21. 


    This is my reason why the show isn't as good as it used to be and it has nothing to do with angels. 

    A good story needs a reason to be. The boys need a reason to be doing what they're doing, and the more personal the better. Then flavor it all with the key themes that make this show so great: brotherhood and family devotion/love in general.
    Season One worked because of YED who killed their mom and Jess.Season Two worked because of John's death for his son. Season Three worked cause of Dean's deal for his brother.Season Four worked because of Dean's time in hell and the breaking of the seals.   Season Five worked because of the Apocalypse, which they started.  
    *Notice how the motivations for Sam and Dean's actions season after season become less and less personal with every season* 
    Season Six sorta worked (not really) because of Sam's missing soul. 

    (You know...thinking about it...I think it would have been great if they had ended the series by having Dean kill souless!Sam and then die himself somehow and make Season Six the last. Would have spared us Season 7). Season Seven is working on...what? Castiel became "god" and released Leviathans into the world. 

    At least the Apocalypse was their fault. But this just lacks any personal touch at all. 

    That's the reason the show isn't as good as before. Not the angels, though maybe the angels were a symptom of the real reason. The show jumped the shark mid Season Four when the stakes started to become less and less personal. 

    ReplyDelete
  131. isleofskye13 April 2012 at 08:55

     Well, there are new pilot shows going round now waiting for pick-ups that honestly sound a thousand times worse than a heavenly spin-off; and lately there is no telling what will appeal to the television public; and I'm being perfectly serious here.
    OUAT and Grimm were slated to fall but they are both going strong and Alcatraz, Terra Nova and many big-named others have been cancelled.

    I don't make any secret of the fact that I don't like Castiel, but it wasn't always like that;
    when he burst through the barn doors in Lazarus Rising, I, like probably everyone else, was enthusiastic at his great entrance.

    He was a warrior angel and he had  a mission and a sense in Season Four's story arc and also up to the end of Season Five, but that's where his stint on the show should have ended, along with the rest of the angel story-line.

    They brought him back in Season Six for no reason at all, except maybe because they listened to  his fans,  but they did his character a great disservice because during that season he spiralled downhill losing all the charisma he had had in the previous seasons.

    Then they continued to drag him out into Season Seven where his character has now become a liability to the show.
    The writers don't know what to do with him and from the warrior-angel he was, he has become rather pathetic.
    He doesn't even help to boost the ratings of the show, as the episode he was in was one of the lowest rated.
    His character is just worn out and the writers should just let him die in peace while he still has a little dignity.

    As for the back to basics, the show got renewed for four seasons without hide nor hair of an angel, so I can't understand how you can say that there would be no story without Castiel!

    ReplyDelete
  132. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 09:20

    I never said there would be no story with Castiel. I said if the show just had what you described, they'd be no story.

    But thinking about it...yes, there would  be no story without Castiel as the show currently is. Think about it. Take away Castiel from this picture. What do you have left? Nothing. 

    As the series stands as it currently is, Castiel, Bobby and the Leviathans are the only things currently moving this story along (and since Castiel brought the Leviathans and the Leviathans killed Bobby, then without Castiel, the show would have been done back a while ago, and I wouldn't have minded a series finale in Season Five). Sam and Dean drama is over. What else can you do with them? I'm not gonna say there's nothing else, I'm gonna say that the writers haven't come up with anything else or at least just didn't go that route. They went the Bobby, Castiel, Leviathan and monsters of the week route. 

    The four seasons without Castiel, we had YED, demon deals, missing fathers, self esteem angst, 'I'm a freak but I don't wanna be" angst, etc. We don't got any of that anymore. 

    Take away the last interesting thing of the show and it's dead. 

    ReplyDelete
  133. isleofskye13 April 2012 at 09:48

    Sam and Dean carry the show for me.
    They are, and will always be the main course; anyone else is just a side-plate.
    All that is needed is for the writers to come up with a logical and exciting story-arc. That's their job; they get paid to be creative!

    There's no reason that the show can't go on to ten seasons like Smallville did; and I'm so hoping it does!

    Then the best and most memorable episodes have been when there were only the two of them:-
     A Very Supernatural Christmas, Mystery Spot, Born Under A Bad Sign, Croatoan, It' A Terrible Life, WIAWSNB, No Rest For The Wicked, Tall Tales, and I could go on and on and on.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 10:11

    If they can get it back to the quality of the earlier seasons, I also would like some ten seasons. 

    But as it is? Let 8 be the last.

    ReplyDelete
  135. rehabber13 April 2012 at 12:47

     Don't know about other Cas fans, but it is not just Cas for me, but all the characters that Misha has played in SPN, 6 of them I think, and I would like a spin-off with MISHA in some role.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Lissie_Bee13 April 2012 at 13:26

    Wow, you're right - I have a hard time believing the alphas would just be like "Huh.. well mom's dead, so I guess we'll just disband and go back to our regularly scheduled daily murders"

    ReplyDelete
  137. chris68413 April 2012 at 13:47

    I think the writers could do a lot more to move Sam and Dean forward without needing to kill off the supporting characters.  They need to start thinking about what the next step, post-apocalypse, is for Sam and Dean, and they need to change up the monster-hunt formula.  Some fans will complain if they change anything, but every show needs to keep changing to keep it fresh.

    What I thought was going to be the premise for this season would have been an example of changing things up.  Instead of Sam and Dean going on hunts, they would become the hunted.  The Leviathan would be after them and always just a step behind.  They lost Cas' protection from Crowley, so it would make sense that Crowley might be after them.  And there should have been some backlash from the monster community after Dean killed Eve.

    Another approach could be having Sam and Dean go on the offensive for once, rather than always being on the defensive.  Let them establish a home base, more alliances, some personal connections, and look for ways to proactively deal with their monster and demon problems.  Crowley is always thinking proactively.  Why can't Sam and Dean take a turn?

    And on the personal level, Dean dealt with his daddy and hunting issues when he retired for a year with Lisa and Ben.  He missed hunting and went back to that life realizing that while he would make a good father in another life, in this life he was a hunter.  The writers need to recognize that and have Dean move forward onto other issues.  Sam stopped running from his monster/Lucifer side when took Lucifer in.  I wish Sam's story hadn't been written so that he was in Hell for so long and emerged so damaged, but it was.  Now Sam needs to really start to heal (and not just have his issues sideswiped), and the writers need to give some thought as to who Sam is now.  He used to be a pretty good strategic thinker.  Could he use that to their advantage?  How about his thoughts on a future?  Will he regain the faith and hope he used to have?  Does he still have part of that dark side in him, and now that he knows he can control it, could he use that to his advantage?

    ReplyDelete
  138. Amber J Gardner13 April 2012 at 15:29

    See this is what I wanted to see!

    I agree. Consistency in the world would be a good touch, having Eve's monsters want revenge and Crowley still be on their hides. Close up some plot holes. You know we dealt with Dean's issues with relationships, but have we ever closed that chapter with Sam? Ruby was a disaster, but can't he ever have a single normal anything other than Jess? What ARE his thoughts on the future? Is past!Sam who had hope of a future completely gone? Maybe bring Jess back from the dead. I don't know. Killing all the characters the boys were personally invested in really killed the tension. Bringing some back would be nice. 

    You know a thing came to mind the other day. In Born Again identity, Sam and Dean last scene was getting in a car and driving off. In the last episode, their first scene was them driving in a car. Where are they going? Do they have a plan? A destination? What is it? Also, I would have loved to see Sam crashing on the couch or back of the car or something. He hadn't slept in days. I would have liked to see him recovering from that.

    Also, Dean could be taken in another direction as well. His daddy issues are done, but he's still grossly dependent on Sam and family in general. When the story hinted at any sort of "Hey now you can think about yourself!" idea to Dean, he sort of grimaced and looked the other way, like it was the last thing he wanted to do. When Bobby died, he nearly fell apart, worse than Sam, cause he's unhealthily attached to his family connections. The only solution the show gave was for him to just smile and bear it and keep going like normal. But maybe they could explore this more. 

    ReplyDelete
  139. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 18:53

    I agree with everything you said with the exception I never liked the introduction of angels but even with said I would have preferred that Castiel remain as he was introduced in 4.01/4.02 - a soldier/warrior of God. 

    The reason that MC was in S6 was I've read that "Dawn Ostroff" had SPN sign MC to 2 year contract as a "regular" for S5 and S6 if the show was renewed.(DO also "forced" Eric Kripke to add "Bela" as a regular in S3 whereas originally she was only supposed to be a one or two shot character). So SG/RS were "forced" to bring Cas back in S6, however (I read) that "they" told MC his character would be killed off at the end of S6 and (allegedly) even wrote "Cas's death scene into the finale episodes" and then SG/RS backed off for some reason. I'm sorry this is so vague because most of it is third or fourth hand.

    I really, really wish the SPN PTB's had just let "Castiel" redeem himself and remain dead in the S6 finale. 

    ReplyDelete
  140. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 19:09

    I'm certain that the line was "We need to keep Michael in Lucifer's Cage" - I triple checked it. :) I think the reason was "Godstiel" didn't want to be challenged by "Michael" for leadership of Heaven IF Michael got free somehow. 

    It's only a theory that Crowley can free Michael anyway, but IF he could and keep Lucifer in, I could see Crowley offering Michael a similar partnership as he had with Raphael. Of course IF released Michael would probably  "mash Crowley like peas" lol. 

    ReplyDelete
  141. sharonally13 April 2012 at 19:37

     Nicely said.I  would like to see the writers working for Sam and Dean rather than IMO  some of the laziness that seems to of infected the writing in recent seasons .

    ReplyDelete
  142. chris68413 April 2012 at 19:49

     For what it's worth, the Supernatural Wiki transcript has it as "Michael and Lucifer's cage," but it doesn't really matter anyway.  Cas wouldn't want Michael out for the same reason Crowley wouldn't want Lucifer out - both betrayed their bosses by siding on Team Free Will to stop the Apocalypse, and both were partly responsible for Michael and Lucifer being trapped in the cage, so they'd both be in for a world of pain if Michael and Lucifer were released (and Cas didn't have his god powers).  And there could be other motivations as well, as you pointed out. :)

    ReplyDelete
  143. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 19:54

    I agree and Dean told Cas in "Let it bleed" he'd (and Sam) "taken down some pretty big fish". 

    I want a "human" solution to the Levi problem (even if one is a grumpy, old ghost - wink, lol) not an "angel-ex machina solution." 

    ReplyDelete
  144. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 20:00

    Yeah, lol and the skinwalker packs would be just happy to remain dogs and sniff people's butts, ha ha. 

    ReplyDelete
  145. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 20:13

    Mine least favorite Ghostfacers, ugh! with TMWWBK a very close second, but I agree Daphne that when BE is "On " for me, he's brilliant, but when he's not, he has written some of my least favorite episodes. Here's hoping that "RIF" or more "Repo Man"  and less  TMWWK.  For me MM is just "OK" and I would place in the upper bottom quarter of SPN episodes along with WT if I were to rank them numerically least favorite to most favorite episodes. 

    ReplyDelete
  146. pinkphoenix198513 April 2012 at 20:20

    I completely agree on this and probably why I was disappointed with S6 and S7 as well. I was looking forward to the back to basics concept of S6 which turned out not to be that at all. I thought that they would have the MOTW thing along side having to deal with the aftermath of the apocalypse and their roles in it. That is just a basic outline that I thought was possible and the writers didn't even come close to it. They went in a completely different direction to what I thought. 

    I'm probably the only one who feels this but I think that S5 actually started the impersonal SL because I felt that the boys were forced into roles that weren't organic--being the vessels of Michael and Lucifer. With the SL of S4 and recalling the last two episodes of S2, I figured that Sam would become the champion of the demons...sort of like a general. Which would put Dean on the other side striving to save the world from demons and more importantly saving Sam. I felt that the whole 'you are the vessel of X and need to say yes' came out of nowhere. It certainly contradicted S2's special kids SL which had its own problems of course. That is why I feel like there is S1-S3 which tells one story and S4-S7 which tells a completely different story. I suppose that S4 is borderline between the two stories but I consider it to be more like the second story because of the angels

    ReplyDelete
  147. CyanaT13 April 2012 at 20:20

    For me the only thing that "saved" TTM from being relegated to near the bottom of the heap was the sexy soulless Sam exercise scene. ;) That and I liked the intro of Balthazar even though I don't like the "angels" in general. 

    ReplyDelete
  148. pinkphoenix198513 April 2012 at 20:23

    Chris-- I would have LOVED LOVED it if the SL of the season went in more detail a la Slash Fiction. It would really explain why everyone and everything surrounding the boys had to go and it would have been so interesting to see the boys stripped of everything. I don't see it in the show now--they showed glimpses but from past seasons we've been told that the boys are excellent at this so why not show it over telling us about it!

    ReplyDelete
  149. isleofskye13 April 2012 at 20:35

    If he was supposed to die at the end of season six, I'm now really curious to know why they brought him back in season seven.

    If it was no longer for contractual problems, I can only think that it was for fan pressure.
     SPN runs on a tight money budget, however, so paying a wage to Collins for a presence on the show when it isn't really necessary seems strange and apart from that, the writers must have found difficulty in working out a coherant story-line for him.

    I just hope they don't bring him back in season 8, if there is one, or we will just be faced with the same problem of trying to accomodate an angel into a story-line that no longer calls for them.

     

    ReplyDelete
  150. Sybilla7514 April 2012 at 09:22

    I disagree that S4 and were less personal, the themes became bigger (which i personally loved) but not less personal. In S4, Dean was the one who unkowingly startes the apocalypse and it was more than jist the seals for me, that season was where they started discovering his destiny. And S5 was Sam's turn to find redemption for what he did in S4, plus both brothers fighting his destiny because they didn't want to kill each other and to save the world. Otherwise, i completely agree with your post that the last two seasons the real problem has been the lack of personal investment on what's going on... thos season much more than the last though. Not even the sacrifice of Bobby's character at the hands of Dick, has really made the Leviathan plot more personal, Sam isn't really interested in revenge and Dean only seems interested on it so that he has a reason to keep going.

    I don't really get why people is so wary of angels coming back when there are much muuuuch worse basic problems going on imo. I hope that in the last episode and in S8, the writers stop making the boys go through the motions and that they somehow regain the confidence that the world is actually worth saving, so they feel their job is worth the pain. This is all i ask for S8 really, is that too much? lol

    ReplyDelete
  151. sharonally14 April 2012 at 11:20

    My problem with the angels isnt their presence perse it is how Sam started to get treated when they were brought onto the show.
    Seasons 4/5 created this extrodinary negativity towards Sam that he has struggled to escape from retconning perceptions of him like his independant spirit that were turned into pride and selfishness or his  going to college becoming something comparable to Lucifer.So whiler the Angels introduction was a interesting concept and I  love Gabriel they have caused issues as well.

    ReplyDelete
  152. rehabber14 April 2012 at 14:28

     Perfect comment, the Leviathans have been the weakest baddie the series has had..IMO.  Some of the best characters were Angels and Demons, Castiel is first on my list, but loved Chris as Alastair, he was so scary and I hated to see him go.  I am just a huge Mark Sheppard fan in what ever he does, so yes I like Crowley, but also Gabriel and Anna.  Was glad to see Dean get his Angel food cake. ;)

    Like you I just want my boys to feel good about what they are doing and not be depressed all the time.  Back to the family part of the show, which is what got me hooked in the first place all those years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  153. chris68414 April 2012 at 15:52

    With Dean, I think family stuff has been explored a lot. Dean learned to let Sam go in season 5 and start viewing Sam in a more balanced light, and Dean's had various lessons that family can be more than just his small inner circle of Sam and John (first Bobby, then Cas, and then Lisa and Ben), which I think helped him find some balance.  Family is always going to be very important to Dean, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

    I think the problem is what I was getting at earlier - I don't think the writers have given a lot of thought to who Sam and Dean are POST-apocalypse, so when they had to write for them, they rehashed season 2 issues.   In Sam's case, with the reemergence of "freak" in GND, we were left scratching our heads, wondering what it meant and where it was going.  In Dean's case (TFAW), viewers were wondering whether Dean had regressed and hadn't really learned the lessons that we thought he had learned.  (I just noticed those were both Dabb and Loflin eps.  Even though they're rehashing old issues, I give them credit for at least trying to write Sam and Dean a little deeper than most of the other writers are.)

    ReplyDelete
  154. pinkphoenix198514 April 2012 at 20:24

    Oh yeah! Seriously- the lack of character focus and development is insane. I just see rehashing of old issues which while realistic just feels old and doesn't give any emotional connection to the angst. 

    ReplyDelete
  155. pinkphoenix198514 April 2012 at 20:25

    *nods* which is why I think that maybe having a shorten season would help with that. I know that as a fan less episodes is harsh but I'd prefer less episodes if the season arc and the episodes we would get are really great

    ReplyDelete
  156. Sybilla7515 April 2012 at 09:50

    If that's what the poster is getting at, then i completely agree. But there's no point in putting the blame on the angels storyline and even on secondary characters, put the blame where it belongs... the writers. I will seriously never get the argument about those who think angels can't have a place on this show beyond the apocalypse storyline, which is what was overplayed, though i think the post apocalypse stuff was something necesary to explore, you don't just screw God's plan and all puppies and rainbows, imo, lol... i was really happy to see there were consequences. Plus, demons were also always part of the apocalypse storyline, so i don't see why there aren't the same complains everytime they appear...

    Also, seriously this is the first synopsis in a looooong time where it looks like they'll move the plot along, so i'm truly grateful for that... if there's something that has been overplayed this season is the MOTW episodes, not the angels, so really looking forward to it.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Sybilla7515 April 2012 at 10:14

    The way i see it, his evolution during these two seasons it was that yeah... he was meant to be someone comparable to Lucifer but in the end he proved that to be wrong...Sam is not perfect, but at his core Sam is quite the opposite to Lucifer which was to me symbolized by how he managed to overcome Lucifer thanks to his love for his big brother and making an ultimate sacrifice to save the humans Lucifer loathed. Seriously, don't see how this storyline made him look bad in the end. And still not a real reason why angels can't have an ocassional place on the show, but i like that you said that was not the real problem but other factors.

    S7 to me it's my least favourite season so far, but i'm not really blaming the leviathans for that, they actually have sooooooo much potential to becone interesting (though they're beyond boring to me at the time), my problem is the wasted potential in pretty much everything they have done this season and the good ideas and terrible execution that has been the trend since last season lol. But if the Leviathans come back next season, i won't hate their return just cuz of this season honnestly, i will just hope they find a way to use them that brings an interesting plot.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Sybilla7515 April 2012 at 10:49

    haha yep that's true. I think the species that has given more interesting characters on the show have been angels and also demons, i guess that's part of why i'm always interested when they show up in an episode. And i really look forward to see how angels play out now, without the apocalypse, since it doesn't make sense for that to be a threat anymore since all of Raphael's supporters are supposedly dead. I really hope we find out where they stand in the whole leviathan business. We know Dick wants nothing to do with demons, but what about angels? are they collaborating with them and that's how they'll cure cancer, i'm guessing to win people's trust (we know that except for Castiel, angels aren't big human lovers even if they didn't necesarily want the apocalypse) or do the leviathans feel the same way about angels than with demons? lol i dunno i just find it necessary to know where such a powerful species stands, imo.

    ReplyDelete
  159. tens182217 April 2012 at 21:44

    we don't know for certain that lucifer is still caged, or michael for that matter. it's very possible that sam (and now cas) wasn't hellucinating luci, and that luci had found a loop hole out of the cage,via sam. as for michael, other than godstiel telling crowley they had to keep michael in luci's cage, we don't actually know for sure that michael is still there, or ever really was there. it's also possible that God zapped him elsewhere. at this point, we don't have definitive proof that luci isnt really hitching a ride in cas, or that michael is cooling his heals in a daddy forced time-out. it's possible that these 2 archangels after 'kevin' could be michael and lucifer, which actually would make far more sense then introducing 2 new random archangels.for the record, im also of the opinion that gabriel may not really be dead.

    ReplyDelete
  160. tens182217 April 2012 at 21:47

    i also don't see the boys defeating BIBLICAL monsters, that were only ever defeated by God himself, without some sort of Heavenly help.

    ReplyDelete

NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.