Ministry of Science huh? Sounds like a totalitarian governmental scientific dystopian future to me.
* * * * * S P O I L E R * * * * *
I know we saw Observer faces on the flags, and SS type governmental police walking around in some of the spoiler pics. This looks interesting must rewatch.
Holy hell. So... (just spitballing here) the Observers snuffed Peter and his bloodline out of existence to protect their totalitarian regime and September went rogue to oppose them?
Well I guess it could be August considering he came from a future but died in the past, So he could be present in his future, and it be the past before he died from his perspective. Did that make any sense?
This gives me the same feeling I had when I found out that we'd get a Jacob/MIB origin story on LOST. I just hope the pay-off is more substantial than said LOST episode.
Considering the teaser here, and some of the spoilers I have seen from this ep, plus the recent spoiler snippets we received a day or two ago on the season finale, I think my questions about the Observers mythology will be addressed thoroughly this season. But I still want a season 5 to tie it into a nice package.
Very cool, but I'm surprisingly unsurprised. I mean, it's a future where there are people with no hair, no taste buds, no facial expressions, and a very fuzzy grasp on human emotion. It was never going to be a happy place. Totalitarian rule by the Observers kinda makes sense. They sure seem to like their order, and you can make sure things are orderly when you have complete and total control over everybody.
Question - did that sound a little like DRJ at the end to anybody else? Or am I stretching? Doesn't sound like any of the Observers at any rate.
WOW! It's soo like "Big Brother is Watching" {1984} .... No Imagination No Due Process No Private Thought No Individuality No Joy No free Will No Education No Freedom.....
That's sort of what I was thinking. When they first announced Michael Massee would guest star, I thought he would be the leader of the Observers; and that he would attempt to get rid of September. Obviously that didn't occur, but there may still be a leader of the Observers not at all sympathetic to the Fringe team. To me, the Observers are self-interested; only looking out for themselves and maintaining their power. The notable exceptions are September and August. August with his feelings for Christine Hollis that led to his death and September's intervention in the lives of the Bishops that led to a war between universes. Their leader (there has to be one) can't be happy about all of this. He (or maybe she) is probably doubly mad because the erasure of Peter didn't fully take. I don't know the exact details, I'm spitballing also; but I think you're on the right track. Is it the 20th yet?
That was from "The End of All Things" If I remember correctly. Remember the scene when December and the others met up to chat about September's disobedience.
watch this you tube video of the scene with August and September, I think it is August. Listen carefully to the voice then rewatch the promo to compare. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIOWDDPCzNs
That's what you and I were talking about! Looks right we're right..."The Ministry of Science" is SO perfect for another scientific -extreme terrorist organization, as science and philosophy/theology still stem in human belief to pursuit and use on behalf of said beliefs. It makes me want to read His Dark Materials all over again! XD
I think it's meant to invoke that, as both the episode title alludes to them (Casablanca reference), Walter's father was in the thick with Hitler until he became a spy on behalf of the U.S. Government (Fringe Prequel Comic "Runs in the Family" and season 2 episode, "The Bishop Revival"), not to mention the idea of creating a super race on behalf a religious belief, such as the creation of shapeshifters and observers, also stems from Nazi Germany, as this is one of Hitler's beliefs...
Actually it could be August, because after the deal with September, it may not be that Observers "die", but instead an Observer's death is a punishment which results in being "locked out" of universes.
Not saying that August couldn't have actually died, but just that what was recently showed to us suggests that the whole idea of that isn't cut and dry.
Nope. I liked it too. It humanized everything. I thought it was very well done and made the point that just about everyone was in the same boat, and personally I don't think it's much different for the Observers, since they are also an extension of humanity...it's still about fate and choices...(:
It'll be very interesting to find out exactly how the Observers came to exist, I know September said that they are humans in a distant future, but not much about them feels human :S Thanks for the references, I've forgotten about the Walter's father Nazi link. I like how the writers are going back to the earlier themes and episodes and integrating them into the storyline.
Thanks for backing me up, Darth. Now the episode wasn't perfect (the heart of the island was asinine and MIB should've been named), but I think they did a pretty good job of explaining Jacob and MIB's past.
I know we can agree to disagree about the rest XD, -but "water" is one of most important components in evolution and/or sustaining life, so I found electromagnetic infused water, motifed as "humanities heart" and something that needed saved, so we could progress to have better lives with people whom, maybe over several lifetimes, went through hell and back (the Island), could eventually lead to a better life and a creation of life, a really nice way to blend both the science and the philosophical aspect of humanity.
I am really curious if this is meant to be "a flash back" or current for the Observers and how the episode will become relative to our initial story...I too really love how they they keep re-weaving everything and solidifying things that seemed like loose ends. Seems like we are all going to have a lot to talk about! XD
It's curious that we have this weird semi-ancient writing again...especially considering the writing of the First People (book and marks on tech), Newton's strange mark, and now cuneiform tattooed people-cult apart of these animal shapeshifter experiments (probably relating to Jones)....
Hey Darth,i have no recollection of Walters farther in with Hitler.I thought going out for few hours put me out of the loop,but now i wonder where the heck i've been for the past 4 years?
It was the first time I had been introduced to the concept of parallel universes in depth. And it caused me to question a lot of things I took for granted, and really think about what I believed to be true. I don't think I'd be where I am right now if I didn't read the series. They messed up the movie, though...
Movie was a trainwreck!!! So glad I'm not the only HDM fan here.
I was really looking forward to the Subtle Knife and seeing how they'd do Cittagazze and Will's dad but they just had to ruin it.
I actually commented on a post last year listing the strange similarities between Fringe and the HDM books. Here it is in case anyone's interested.
What I really, really want to ask J.H. Wyman... Has Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy been an influence to Fringe in any way? It's clear to me the books are more in the realm of fantasy than science-fiction, but some of the basic story similarities are just uncanny to me.
Both stories explore the concept of a multiverse and traveling between parallel worlds. Both prominently feature a universe where we came to use zeppelins instead of planes. Both deal with communication methods via quantum entanglement. Both focus on a strong-willed female main character with intuitive abilities (Lyra/Olivia). Both also focus on a fierce young male who came from a completely different world than the female his destiny is entangled with (Will/Peter), one who barely ever knew his father. In the books Will's father was one of the first to travel between worlds, quite like Walter, and the hole he created, among others that were later made, were contributing to the end of the worlds. Will's father also had a hole drilled into his head, just like Walter. For different reasons of course, but still. Both main male characters have almost mythic roles to play in relation to a powerful weapon -- Will destined to become the bearer of the subtle knife, Peter destined to interact with the doomsday machine.
Haven't read the books in a long, long time but even though they don't have much if anything in common beyond this, this stuff has just always stuck out to me.
I paralleled it in Lost too as there was a Daniels special specs that read time (timelines?), The magic knife Dogen gives Sayid to kill MIB, and the passing of John's/Alpert's compass through time...
but I do agree it's with in Fringe too---especially the "amber" aspect...I think its the one thing, besides the machines that can prevent total destruction...and I find Lost's heart of the Island with it's red shirt Desmond, Blue shirt Jack, lush green outside, with amber-yellow inside know coincidence either...
I agree they ruined the film. I liked the cast and the cinematography, but they rearranged to many events, too heavily watered down the plot, and then had to leave it with the most dreadful ending (since the actual ending was SO much better) ever! I could have looked passed it if they would have carried on an not screwed up the other two works, but maybe since they didn't, it's better this way.
Never thought of all those similarities in Lost or the amber similarity in Fringe but now that you mention it I can totally see it.
And you're right that it's probably a good thing they never let Chris Weitz do another film. He was never the right guy for the project and it was insulting that they took out the original ending.
I still hold out hope that someday someone will adapt this series for adults and do it justice.
Yeah! --I don't blame Mr. Weitz, as much as I blame New Line Cinima...In many interviews he stated he wanted to try to stay close to the book..He also said that he wouldn't direct the other two, unless NLC would do the works justice...so I think it's pretty clear that they refused...that they didn't want to get into it with bigger Religious factions of the world, which is really funny because their aqusation of utter atheism isn't the actual point of Pullman's work, it's responsibility, love, compassion, and reform.
I also forgot the Ancient Egyptian aspect to the heart of the Island... "the heart" (IEB) is "the center of all consciences and the center of life itstelf"...
Oh man, I love the Observers. Every time i'm out somewhere and see a bald man or someone wearing a fedora I immediately start stalking them to make sure they're not stalking someone else.
haha, actually it was only one time and I did kinda watch him for a few minutes because it was just so awesome. He was a shorter man about 5'3'' and was in a suit, bald with a fedora, and had a briefcase and was staring out a window. Needless to say I freaked out.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
OBSERVERS.
ReplyDeleteMinistry of Science huh? Sounds like a totalitarian governmental scientific dystopian future to me.
ReplyDelete* * * * * S P O I L E R * * * * *
I know we saw Observer faces on the flags, and SS type governmental police walking around in some of the spoiler pics. This looks interesting must rewatch.
Native or something the killing cannot stand. Not on my something something.
ReplyDeleteHoly fucking shit, this looks amazing. *head explosion*
ReplyDeleteNaive or not the killing cannot stand, not on my watch. (I think)
ReplyDeleteWhat is going on? Love it!
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's September. It sounds more like August to me. Which doesn't make any sense I know but still.
ReplyDeleteAlso the flashes at the end:
No imagination. No due process. No private thought. No individuality. No joy. No free will. No education. No freedom.
Holy hell. So... (just spitballing here) the Observers snuffed Peter and his bloodline out of existence to protect their totalitarian regime and September went rogue to oppose them?
ReplyDeleteThis clip reminds me so much of the mythology-filled Lost episodes. AAHHH!
ReplyDeleteWell I guess it could be August considering he came from a future but died in the past, So he could be present in his future, and it be the past before he died from his perspective. Did that make any sense?
ReplyDeletereminds me of 1984...
ReplyDeleteExactly my thoughts!
ReplyDeleteFringesense.
ReplyDeleteI can deifinitely see Massive Dynamic in charge of a though police army... I think I'm going to love this ep!!
ReplyDeleteSure it does. Maybe I am not hallucinating after all...
ReplyDeleteO_o What. The. Fuck!? This reminds me of the Dharma Initiative in Lost....
ReplyDeleteThis gives me the same feeling I had when I found out that we'd get a Jacob/MIB origin story on LOST. I just hope the pay-off is more substantial than said LOST episode.
ReplyDeleteloved that!!
ReplyDeleteConsidering the teaser here, and some of the spoilers I have seen from this ep, plus the recent spoiler snippets we received a day or two ago on the season finale, I think my questions about the Observers mythology will be addressed thoroughly this season. But I still want a season 5 to tie it into a nice package.
ReplyDeleteVery cool, but I'm surprisingly unsurprised. I mean, it's a future where there are people with no hair, no taste buds, no facial expressions, and a very fuzzy grasp on human emotion. It was never going to be a happy place. Totalitarian rule by the Observers kinda makes sense. They sure seem to like their order, and you can make sure things are orderly when you have complete and total control over everybody.
ReplyDeleteQuestion - did that sound a little like DRJ at the end to anybody else? Or am I stretching? Doesn't sound like any of the Observers at any rate.
This. Looks. Epic. Beyond. Words.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was September, but Vargesz says August. I'm leaning more towards August, but I do think it was one of the Observers.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only person in existence who actually LIKED that episode of Lost?
ReplyDeleteWell between you and me... yeah.
ReplyDeleteWOW! It's soo like "Big Brother is Watching" {1984} ....
ReplyDeleteNo Imagination
No Due Process
No Private Thought
No Individuality
No Joy
No free Will
No Education
No Freedom.....
*So looking forward to this one......
♥
What Ricky said.
ReplyDeleteThat's sort of what I was thinking. When they first announced Michael Massee would guest star, I thought he would be the leader of the Observers; and that he would attempt to get rid of September. Obviously that didn't occur, but there may still be a leader of the Observers not at all sympathetic to the Fringe team.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the Observers are self-interested; only looking out for themselves and maintaining their power. The notable exceptions are September and August. August with his feelings for Christine Hollis that led to his death and September's intervention in the lives of the Bishops that led to a war between universes.
Their leader (there has to be one) can't be happy about all of this. He (or maybe she) is probably doubly mad because the erasure of Peter didn't fully take.
I don't know the exact details, I'm spitballing also; but I think you're on the right track. Is it the 20th yet?
Ooo, I like this image and I'm sure some of my old English teachers will too.
ReplyDeleteI did think DRJ.
ReplyDeleteWe saw that promo ages ago where the observers are kneeling on the steps.
ReplyDeleteThat was from "The End of All Things" If I remember correctly. Remember the scene when December and the others met up to chat about September's disobedience.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is the time when September got shot.
ReplyDeletewatch this you tube video of the scene with August and September, I think it is August. Listen carefully to the voice then rewatch the promo to compare.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIOWDDPCzNs
Interesting, confusing, looks like GREAT episode!
ReplyDeleteThat's what you and I were talking about! Looks right we're right..."The Ministry of Science" is SO perfect for another scientific -extreme terrorist organization, as science and philosophy/theology still stem in human belief to pursuit and use on behalf of said beliefs. It makes me want to read His Dark Materials all over again! XD
ReplyDelete"Plan Your Escape!"
ReplyDeletereminds me of Nazis :(
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to dislike the Observers now. Apart from September.
I think it's meant to invoke that, as both the episode title alludes to them (Casablanca reference), Walter's father was in the thick with Hitler until he became a spy on behalf of the U.S. Government (Fringe Prequel Comic "Runs in the Family" and season 2 episode, "The Bishop Revival"), not to mention the idea of creating a super race on behalf a religious belief, such as the creation of shapeshifters and observers, also stems from Nazi Germany, as this is one of Hitler's beliefs...
ReplyDeleteActually it could be August, because after the deal with September, it may not be that Observers "die", but instead an Observer's death is a punishment which results in being "locked out" of universes.
ReplyDeleteNot saying that August couldn't have actually died, but just that what was recently showed to us suggests that the whole idea of that isn't cut and dry.
Nope. I liked it too. It humanized everything. I thought it was very well done and made the point that just about everyone was in the same boat, and personally I don't think it's much different for the Observers, since they are also an extension of humanity...it's still about fate and choices...(:
ReplyDeleteIt'll be very interesting to find out exactly how the Observers came to exist, I know September said that they are humans in a distant future, but not much about them feels human :S
ReplyDeleteThanks for the references, I've forgotten about the Walter's father Nazi link. I like how the writers are going back to the earlier themes and episodes and integrating them into the storyline.
Thanks for backing me up, Darth. Now the episode wasn't perfect (the heart of the island was asinine and MIB should've been named), but I think they did a pretty good job of explaining Jacob and MIB's past.
ReplyDeleteOh my God, you like His Dark Materials? I love that series!
ReplyDeleteYes,you remember correctly, it was from that episode.Wow i go to do laundry and look what happens!
ReplyDeleteI know we can agree to disagree about the rest XD, -but "water" is one of most important components in evolution and/or sustaining life, so I found electromagnetic infused water, motifed as "humanities heart" and something that needed saved, so we could progress to have better lives with people whom, maybe over several lifetimes, went through hell and back (the Island), could eventually lead to a better life and a creation of life, a really nice way to blend both the science and the philosophical aspect of humanity.
ReplyDeleteIt's my favorite book series! --I wish Pullman would complete the alleged first of two-volumed "Book of Dust" already!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSure! (:
ReplyDeleteI am really curious if this is meant to be "a flash back" or current for the Observers and how the episode will become relative to our initial story...I too really love how they they keep re-weaving everything and solidifying things that seemed like loose ends.
Seems like we are all going to have a lot to talk about! XD
It's curious that we have this weird semi-ancient writing again...especially considering the writing of the First People (book and marks on tech), Newton's strange mark, and now cuneiform tattooed people-cult apart of these animal shapeshifter experiments (probably relating to Jones)....
ReplyDeleteYou've got me just about sold!
ReplyDeleteHey Darth,i have no recollection of Walters farther in with Hitler.I thought going out for few hours put me out of the loop,but now i wonder where the heck i've been for the past 4 years?
ReplyDeleteIt's no biggie! I forget stuff on and off too!
ReplyDeleteYou can always brush up at Fringepedia:
Robert Bishop: http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Robert_Bishop
The Bishop Revival: http://fringepedia.net/wiki/The_Bishop_Revival
It Runs In the Family:
http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Fringe_Comic_Number_5#It_Runs_In_The_Family
I'm really loving the comments and opinions,thanks for the info!
ReplyDeleteIt was the first time I had been introduced to the concept of parallel universes in depth. And it caused me to question a lot of things I took for granted, and really think about what I believed to be true. I don't think I'd be where I am right now if I didn't read the series.
ReplyDeleteThey messed up the movie, though...
Why must they torture us?!!
ReplyDeleteThis looks amazing!!
DRJ has a lisp, and a more tenor quality, the voice on this promo has no lisp and more of a baritone quality.
ReplyDeleteVoices and accents are one of my things. Plus I am a musician too, so pitch is something I pay attention to.
This episode is going to be awesome.
ReplyDeleteits gonna be the "Flashes Before Your Eyes" of Fringe for sure or maybe even "Across the Sea"
ReplyDeleteMovie was a trainwreck!!! So glad I'm not the only HDM fan here.
ReplyDeleteI was really looking forward to the Subtle Knife and seeing how they'd do Cittagazze and Will's dad but they just had to ruin it.
I actually commented on a post last year listing the strange similarities between Fringe and the HDM books. Here it is in case anyone's interested.
What I really, really want to ask J.H. Wyman...
Has Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy been an influence to Fringe in any way?
It's
clear to me the books are more in the realm of fantasy than
science-fiction, but some of the basic story similarities are just
uncanny to me.
Both stories explore the concept of a multiverse and traveling between parallel worlds.
Both prominently feature a universe where we came to use zeppelins instead of planes.
Both deal with communication methods via quantum entanglement.
Both focus on a strong-willed female main character with intuitive abilities (Lyra/Olivia).
Both
also focus on a fierce young male who came from a completely different
world than the female his destiny is entangled with (Will/Peter), one
who barely ever knew his father.
In the books Will's father was one
of the first to travel between worlds, quite like Walter, and the hole
he created, among others that were later made, were contributing to the
end of the worlds.
Will's father also had a hole drilled into his head, just like Walter. For different reasons of course, but still.
Both
main male characters have almost mythic roles to play in relation to a
powerful weapon -- Will destined to become the bearer of the subtle
knife, Peter destined to interact with the doomsday machine.
Haven't read the books in a long, long time but even though they
don't have much if anything in common beyond this, this stuff has just
always stuck out to me.
I made some screencaps, it's interesting :)
ReplyDeleteWhat an idea! Love it!
ReplyDeleteThis episode sound like it going to be mind blowing, I also going to with the consensue that the Observer will be involved.
ReplyDeleteI paralleled it in Lost too as there was a Daniels special specs that read time (timelines?), The magic knife Dogen gives Sayid to kill MIB, and the passing of John's/Alpert's compass through time...
ReplyDeletebut I do agree it's with in Fringe too---especially the "amber" aspect...I think its the one thing, besides the machines that can prevent total destruction...and I find Lost's heart of the Island with it's red shirt Desmond, Blue shirt Jack, lush green outside, with amber-yellow inside know coincidence either...
I agree they ruined the film. I liked the cast and the cinematography, but they rearranged to many events, too heavily watered down the plot, and then had to leave it with the most dreadful ending (since the actual ending was SO much better) ever! I could have looked passed it if they would have carried on an not screwed up the other two works, but maybe since they didn't, it's better this way.
If Dr. Marvin Candle shows up on film explaining to Walter how every 108 minutes he has to milk Gene, I will be turning off my TV set.
ReplyDeleteNever thought of all those similarities in Lost or the amber similarity in Fringe but now that you mention it I can totally see it.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're right that it's probably a good thing they never let Chris Weitz do another film. He was never the right guy for the project and it was insulting that they took out the original ending.
I still hold out hope that someday someone will adapt this series for adults and do it justice.
the observers' world..??
ReplyDelete20 april 2012
ReplyDeleteYeah! --I don't blame Mr. Weitz, as much as I blame New Line Cinima...In many interviews he stated he wanted to try to stay close to the book..He also said that he wouldn't direct the other two, unless NLC would do the works justice...so I think it's pretty clear that they refused...that they didn't want to get into it with bigger Religious factions of the world, which is really funny because their aqusation of utter atheism isn't the actual point of Pullman's work, it's responsibility, love, compassion, and reform.
ReplyDeleteI also forgot the Ancient Egyptian aspect to the heart of the Island... "the heart" (IEB) is "the center of all consciences and the center of life itstelf"...
ReplyDeleteOh man, I love the Observers. Every time i'm out somewhere and see a bald man or someone wearing a fedora I immediately start stalking them to make sure they're not stalking someone else.
ReplyDeleteLOL you just cracked me up! Do you really stalk them?
ReplyDeletehaha, actually it was only one time and I did kinda watch him for a few minutes because it was just so awesome. He was a shorter man about 5'3'' and was in a suit, bald with a fedora, and had a briefcase and was staring out a window. Needless to say I freaked out.
ReplyDeleteHa,can't say i blame you and yes it sounds awesome!
ReplyDeleteSeptember lied. Just saw the 3rd teaser. their not who he said they were.
ReplyDeletethey're*
ReplyDelete