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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Repo Man?

18 Feb 2012

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167 comments:

  1. Ally718 February 2012 at 02:58

    I. Love. The. Devil *__*

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  2. klutzy_girl18 February 2012 at 02:59

    I loved it! Jeffrey is so creepy. I expect him and the demon are together now in death, dancing and other stuff.

    Aww, poor Sam! He let Lucifer in and now he's really losing it and alskdfjalksdjf.

    Cannot wait for a new episode!

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  3. ScottA18 February 2012 at 03:02

    Jimmy Novak sighting.  Jeffrey looking like a young Frank Whaley??  Liked the grade school mischief from  Lucifer. Funny how Devereaux cannot find Dick????

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  4. KatAdams0318 February 2012 at 03:03

    I loved it! Lucifer and Sam were funny! And they made a good strange team!  Haha!

    Creepy demons! With dancing! And we had a small appearance of the impala and I think I saw the amulet!! I miss that so much!! 

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  5. Pigeon66618 February 2012 at 03:03

    It was a pretty solid episode - lots of expansion on the villain, something that's been missing for a while. Dean didn't seem nearly as suicidal, which is great. Sam on the other hand...I love the Devil, but he's giving Sam a very hard time. 

    There was lots of parallels between Dean and Jeffrey - both of them depressed and not really having a reason. Jeffreys demon is Dean's revenge and drive for payback. Jefreys counsellor was Dean's Sam. 

    8 out of 10.

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  6. chris68418 February 2012 at 03:04

    Wow.  Wow on everything.  It was actually scary.  Lucifer is an annoying child.  And Sam is Jeffrey.  He had a demon in him.  Was lost/crazy once the demon was gone.  And he invited the demon back in.  Wow.  Not where I was expecting this to go, but can't wait to see what comes next.

     

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  7. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q18 February 2012 at 03:04

    I've been blah with 95% of this season.  Unimpressed with most episodes.  But this one was frigging /awesome/.  I loved every minute.  I've been hunting for the real SPN all season and I felt like this was it.  Real Dean, Real Sam, reaallyyy awesome Luci..  Even the bad guy was awesome.  I got creepy vibes from him and his motivations seemed so much more 'real' then..say.. clown dude from last episode who killed because he didn't get his promotion.   Thank you, Ben Edlund.  You've renewed some of my hope and faith in this show.

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  8. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q18 February 2012 at 03:05

     Wait, Jimmy Novak sighting??  I didn't see Jimmy. 

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  9. ScottA18 February 2012 at 03:06

    Beginning of previews for a second; outside the bilding.

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  10. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q18 February 2012 at 03:08

     My cable company is lame.  They haven't been showing previews for a few weeks now.  I will have to wait till spoiler tv gets it.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Bec66618 February 2012 at 03:09

    Excellent episode. Didn't have the laughs and feel of the brotherly bond of the last episode but it was still really good. Dean seems to have gotten over the booze thing and while they didn't laugh and joke it still felt like Sam and Dean. 

    I loved the flash back to a time with Lilith that we never got to see before. Dang they were a tad brutal back then. :)... 

    Luci.. man it was good to have him back. I mean how hard were those scenes to do. Lucifer talking and Sam ignoring. I knew when Sam acknowledged him he was screwed. I just hope they fix him in 17. I've loved the idea of Sam's hell but enough is enough. 

    All in all a 9 out of 10.

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  12. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:12

    Wow...well that was a complete 180 in tone from last week's episode, but I have to say I really liked it.
    The brutality of the guys in the old case was a bit stark but that was back in the Lilith days so things were a little tense.
    I was kind of confused as the present day case unfolded but it was actually pretty clever when all was said and done.
    And for all the doubts about Sam going from seeming fine to hallucinating big time, I thought it was handled really well. And dayum, is Mark Pellegrino good! How the man hasn't won an Emmy for this roll is beyond me...he really brings a whole new level of creepiness to it. And I can't imagine how he and Jared filmed their scenes without actually being able to respond to each other...man!
    Have to say, too, I loved the forked tongue effect...had a classic Kripke reaction there...so freaky it made me giggle!
    I'm not looking forward to where Sam's headed from here even though we knew it was coming but so far they're doing well with it. I just hope they don't drag it out too long and there's some kind of resolution...positive resolution, needless to say.
    Kudos to Ben Edlund for some great writing.
    I'd give this one a 5 out of 5.

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  13. Ally718 February 2012 at 03:13

    I thought I spotted the amulet too in the ''4 years earlier'', but for the rest of the flashback scene I couldn't see it anymore^^; I was wondering if I dreamt about that.

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  14. SmallvilleSupernaturalCastle18 February 2012 at 03:14

    NOT THE PUPPY U SICK SON OF A BEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LUCY...... YOUR HOME!

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  15. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:16

    Ooh, very interesting insights into the paralell betwen Dean and Jeffrey.  I got that but never thought of Jeffrey's Demon being Dean's revenge, etc.   You're too deep for me, Pige! :D

    I do hope that maybe Jeffrey will be a wakeup call for Dean...like that could be you if you don't snap out of it.   Although I think the monster spawn may have been it...I've been loving the sober Dean the last couple of weeks!

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  16. Neon Jedi18 February 2012 at 03:16

    It was brilliant, I loved everything about it! 

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  17. Dahne18 February 2012 at 03:17

    Not as much fun as the last episode and it's leaving me with questions I'll need a rewatch to answer.  Still I'm liking season 7 Lucifer way, way better than season 5's mopefest.  He's that pesky little brother that always gets you in trouble and then laughs about it when your parents' backs are turned.  I roared when he stuck his forked tongue out.  Poor Sammy having to deal with him all these months.  I thought the case was definitely gross and had some nice twists but it didn't grab me.  Best thing on first watch was Lucifer and that's something I've never ever said.

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  18. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:17

    Hmm...interesting.  I thought of Jeffrey more as Dean...as in the feeling of worthlessness and being suicidal.  But I can see the paralell to Sam too.  Have to say, major nod to Ben Edlund, he wrote the crap out of this one!

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  19. brianna armstrong18 February 2012 at 03:18

    i really, really loved this episode!!! had sympathy for jeffery when i thought he was a demon...but all that changed when he killed the dog! and poor sammy! i hate that his hand thingy isnt working to get rid of lucifer...but i did love the back and forth between them! these next two weeks are going to be brutal!

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  20. rehabber18 February 2012 at 03:18

    Oh Damn, I can not stop seeing that forked tongue, that was so gross...I LOVED IT. lol   Another good old brothers working together hunt, thanks Ben for a fun story.  Poor Sam, he is on the fast slide to the nut house.

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  21. ZoeF18 February 2012 at 03:18

    Mark Pellegrino had a blast, for sure.

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  22. ScottA18 February 2012 at 03:19

    I gotta feeling it will be really violent when/if Dean meets Dick.

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  23. SuePo18 February 2012 at 03:19

    That was creepy, intense and exactly what Supernatural should be. Mark P. was amazing. I love his banter as Lucifer. I can totally see why Sam gave in and acknowledged him. He was frantic to find Dean and he just couldn't keep his defenses up. Lucifer just kind of snuck up on him which is exactly what you'd expect from the devil. Now Sam's in real trouble and I don't think even Dean can help him. He's going to have to beat this one on his own. And he will. Sam in constant mental doubt and turmoil for the rest of the series would get old fast and make him completely ineffective as a hunter or back-up.

    Dean is still going through the motions, but Jeffrey was right -- it kills him that he can't save everyone. If Sam implodes right before his eyes and he can't stop it, it's going to send him into overload and I almost feel sorry for Dick Roman when Dean finds him and releases all that pent up aggression. Having to use the blood of the exorciser was a nice twist. It was actually a plausible reason for Dean to be in peril and Sam to be frantic. Edlund thinks of everything. :)

    Jeffrey was uber creepy. He was well cast. I almost believed the poor innocent victim act. (and would've if I hadn't seen previews!!) A very well written and well acted character. Makes you wonder how easy it would be to turn an already unbalanced person to the dark side and why it doesn't happen in their world more often. Edlund is still the master. If only some of the new writers would take a page from his book.

    Frank better get it together because he's so not living up to his reputation. He's got to come up with something soon tho, right? 

    Not much to go on in the preview for upcoming eps. I'm assuming the kid is Jimmy Novak learning to hear angels? He looked too much like Misha to be an accident. I guess the Castiel they get back isn't exactly the Castiel the boys know. Looks intriguing. We have to wait three weeks, but we get double doses of Winchesters for the next two, so I think I'll be able to cope. Besides, I'd rather deal with these little hiatuses than a long, drawn-out absence. 

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  24. Pigeon66618 February 2012 at 03:20

    I am rather deep, aren't I? :D

    Yep, in fact there was a nice article over at The Winchester Family Business that explained how Dean is on the road to recovery - it's an interesting read.

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  25. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:22

    This show has had a slew of really good, really bad guys...from Fred Lahne's YED to Mark Sheppard's Crowley but Mark Pellegrino's Luci is the granddaddy of them all.   When they first introduced him as the personification of Lucifer I had lots of doubts, thought he looked like way too much of a common shlub to pull it off.   I've never been happier to be proven wrong.  The man is flat out awesome!  

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  26. Bec66618 February 2012 at 03:23

    Have to agree with you on everything. :) Excellent review.

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  27. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:23

    Cool...I'm all for the road to recovery.   Now if only Sam could get on that road too! 

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  28. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 03:24

    Gee, ya think? :D

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  29. jillyanne18 February 2012 at 03:33

    I loved it. Nobody writes creepy like Ben Edlund. The Sam and Luci scenes were fantastic. Now that's what the devil should be like. 
    My big question is: who put the devil's trap on the ceiling? I must've missed something - the live stream was a bit glitchy.

    ReplyDelete
  30. chris68418 February 2012 at 03:36

     I don't think this episode was about Dean.  I didn't get that Jeffrey was Sam until the end - the demon monologuing about how Jeffrey always had it in him, and the parallels of that to what Ruby and Lucifer told Sam in seasons 4 and 5.  And the end - Sam letting Lucifer back in - that had to be more than just a reflexive response of Sam answering Lucifer.  It was a choice.

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  31. littlesis1418 February 2012 at 03:36

    Great episode Love it from the start to the end. Jensen and Jared did a great job. Felt sorry for Sam tring to get Luciferto go away I was so hoping Dean would wake up. Hate it that we have to wait 2 weeks for a new episode.
     

    ReplyDelete
  32. C P18 February 2012 at 03:47

    Misha is supposed to come back as Cas but changed. Not Jimmy. (Basing this on past spoilers and interviews). 

    My theory is Cas is human. 

    ReplyDelete
  33. Lisa18 February 2012 at 03:48

    Awesome +++   Now how do I survive until March 9th?

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  34. C P18 February 2012 at 03:49

    No, I saw it too. I know I did. Saw the head and horns and black string. It would make sense to have him wear it for the flashback because it happened before Season 5. 

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  35. C P18 February 2012 at 03:56

    Yeah, when he killed the dog any sympathy was lost and I was like somebody kill that sociopath! 

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  36. Dahne18 February 2012 at 04:00

    Actually I couldn't stand Lucifer in season 5 and he was a part of why it is my least favorite season.  I never got why people were excited about Pellegrino because I left LOST before he showed up.  However, I am really enjoying this Lucifer.  For me though, no one will ever beat Crowley and his snark for best bad guy.  Alastair wins the award by far for creepiest, scariest, and all round most sadistic.  I always thought season 5 would have been better if he was the big bad.  I'm glad they are playing Lucifer more like YED now.

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  37. C P18 February 2012 at 04:02

    No clue who put the devil's trap either. 

    I agree about Ben Edlund. He writes creepy good. I like it when he does the more serious drama episodes. The darker stuff. He writes everyone well. I loved On the Head of a Pin, The End, The Man Who Would Be King, and now Repo Man. I'm sure I'm missing a couple other drama episodes he wrote but I'm sure you get the idea. I wish he could write all the dramas, lol. 

    ReplyDelete
  38. Pigeon66618 February 2012 at 04:06

    Didn't he write Hello, Cruel World? Thats one of my favourites.

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  39. yahoo-SGM3FI43O3GZPSUQ7MEWKXEU5Q18 February 2012 at 04:06

     Alastair definitely wins the award for the creepiest creep on SPN.  A damn shame that he was in the show for such a short time.  That actor did a /spectacular/ job.

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  40. brunna18 February 2012 at 04:09

    Fantastic episode, I loved Lucifer!!! Is that wrong???

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  41. Shimmerinstars7718 February 2012 at 04:19

    Yes I also saw the parallels between Jeffrey and Dean. I'm thinking that's in
    part why they put them side by side to make the parallels even more
    noticeable  I like the idea of Jeffrey's counselor being Dean's Sam.and  it fits
    Sam perfectly during these tough times Dean has been having.

    Poor Sammy he let Lucifer back in unknowingly, trying to save Dean.
     

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  42. C P18 February 2012 at 04:21

    I believe so. And yes, that was also a great epi. :D

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  43. C P18 February 2012 at 04:22

    That's what I've been asking myself since I saw the promo on TV. XD

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  44. C P18 February 2012 at 04:23

    Nope. I do too. lol

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  45. SuePo18 February 2012 at 04:24

    I've been thinking about where they can go with Sam's problem... what if there is still a tiny little connection between Sam up here and Lucifer in the cage? In order to save Sam, they have to figure out how to sever that connection and then, while he'll still have bad memories of Hell just like Dean does, they'll be only memories he can learn to bury like his brother and not actual hallucinations that can overwhelm him. At least that way there is an out. Having this be just all in Sam's head and him tormented forever is just putting them in a hole I can't see a way out of. 

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  46. geordiegirl196718 February 2012 at 04:25

    Amazing ep. Need to rewatch now. But very old school in a really good way. S7 rocks!

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  47. Ally718 February 2012 at 04:28

    yup i know^^; but since it disapeared so fast I was wondering if they did a mistake, of it just went hiding under the shirt, I'll need to watch the episode again :P

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  48. LeRoy Hartson18 February 2012 at 04:31

    good ep but I been hearing everyone loves Lucifer are you all insane? mark P is good that man needs a show of his own and I loved the him and jared great job both of them did but hello this is going to end badly for sam and no one gives a damn but me this man is going to go though some real pain and If hes in pain so am I. I am not looking forward to the next few eps ok and it now going to be all right or never going to end its apart of sam now and its not going to stop ok. And I am so freaking out here its not funny I do not think anything good will happen here so sorry but thats what I think.

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  49. C P18 February 2012 at 04:37

    I agree. Alastair takes the prize as best villain. 

    Lucifer has always been my second fav though (And I never watched Lost). I just like the creepy vibe. He creeped me out in Abandon All Hope along with other episodes. 

    Crowley is either tie or in a whole other ball park. (Separate group) I can't decide. I love Crowley a lot too.  

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  50. Ally718 February 2012 at 04:39

    :P Come on smile! It's just a show. I'm worry about Sammy too, but this will also create great materiel for all the actors to work with, this has potentiel to make awesome eps and Mark's performance is just too awesome.

    If it was real, of course we wouldn't love Luci, and we would freak out for Sammy...but it's not real, so we can enjoy all the actors's performance, including Mark's :)

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  51. Ally718 February 2012 at 04:41

    ^^; good question about the trap, I asked myself about that too.,..

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  52. C P18 February 2012 at 04:48

    Spoke my mind. :)

    I love Sam, and am worried for him, but I also love watching Lucifer's antics, like I liked Alastair and Crowley on the show. They're the bad guys, but I like them cause they're great at it. 

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  53. Kerinda Hartson18 February 2012 at 04:57

    ok now I am on my own facebook so anyway I know but I been a sam girl ever sents I see heart great ep and I feel for him evey time I was thinking was a good thing that he lost his soul and I knew only bad can happen if he got it back and you know what I was right ok. this show just freaks me out and that why I kind of love that it does that and I do not say much about dean sorry I do not like him that much he is ok but some of the things he does piss me off (sorry to all the dean fans). And to that mark guy I will say he is great he is going to be on being human again that man is good loved him on lost like I said he needs his own show.

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  54. Ally718 February 2012 at 04:58

    :P Crowley is my god, all I have to say

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  55. Kerinda Hartson18 February 2012 at 05:02

    they was all great at it but I love to sam being bad again sorry I loved born under a bad sign fav ep being that it was meg was awesome I think lucifer will make sam be bad again that be a great never happen but great.

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  56. Ally718 February 2012 at 05:03

    A good show doesn't make you happy, it make you *feel* :) So if you feel so scare and afraid for Sammy,its not all that bad, its a good sign it only mean the purpose of the show is working 

    You just don't have to take it too seriously :) We can love baddie without being heartless or whatever, it still remain not real

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  57. C P18 February 2012 at 05:14

    Well he is the top demon in Hell. :P

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  58. C P18 February 2012 at 05:20

    But the kid doesn't have blue eyes. They're brown. Even on SPN, a darkly lighted show, anyone who is willing to (or loves to) pay attention to such thing, knows Misha/Jimmy/Cas's eye color. Plus I don't see the point in that since Jimmy only starting hearing Cas right before Cas vesseled him. And kid Jimmy with a knife? I don't think it's plausible. 

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  59. Ally718 February 2012 at 05:27

    I just know I'll end up in Hell for loving Lucifer and the King of hell too much xD

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  60. SuePo18 February 2012 at 05:33

    I noticed the eye color, too. But the 'old' sepia toned look and the obvious 70's furniture behind him made me believe it was something from the past. So we'll have to wait and see exactly who or what that kid is supposed to be.

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  61. SuePo18 February 2012 at 05:35

    Maybe Sam and the lady? They seemed to just pop up out of nowhere. Or maybe Jeffrey as a contingency plan if the demon did exactly what it did and not go into him? Don't know. That's the one major problem I saw, too. I didn't pay too much attention to it the first time through, but yeah, where did it come from?

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  62. Wilson Crawford18 February 2012 at 05:37

    God, they really went all out with the sick and dark tones. I obviously like it when I feel uncomfortable because of the villain...but he killed that damn dog. 

    Whoever played Jeffrey... kudos. 

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  63. Laurie Edwards18 February 2012 at 06:00

    First time in ages I haven't loved a "Supernatural' episode. The Dialogue With the Devil thing with Sam was festive, but the rehashed demon story was dull as dirt.

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  64. ShOwFrEaK18 February 2012 at 06:49

    Mark Pellegrino as Lucifer is just fan-Goddamn-tastic. Humorous, Playful, and add of little reactive evilness, which I'm expecting more to come, Sam's in for a real treat, lol. May God be with Sam, if Lucifer allows that in the first place, lol. 

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  65. ShatteredOne18 February 2012 at 06:51

    Very predictable in terms of who was doing all the killings, but a pretty good look at the mind of a sociopath.  However, Mark and the dog stole the show.  How can you beat the awesome banter Mark had with Sam, his crazy laugh at the end, "Good Morning Vietnam!", and the dog carrying the cone was hilarious...saddest death since Bobby's. 

    Good episode, but can we please get to some Leviathan stuff?   And Mark for that matter.

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  66. ShOwFrEaK18 February 2012 at 06:58

    I thought the same thing about Sam and Lucifer sharing some sort of mental connection, but on the matter of Sam getting rid of his problem, wasn't it said by the SPN producer or someone in a interview that Sam will have this problem forever and won't able to get rid of it completely. 

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  67. ShOwFrEaK18 February 2012 at 06:59

    Well, he still has to figure out how to kill him and the other leviathans

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  68. ShOwFrEaK18 February 2012 at 07:05

    Oh Lu, yeah, me and him are bud buddies. The man is real Hoot, lol. 

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  69. prpleight18 February 2012 at 07:54

    Tonight's bad guy inspired me to re-read the Evil Overlord's List.  Good gosh Jeremy ran his mouth FOREVER!   If it had not been for Lucifer this ep would have been a total bust.

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  70. Justine Kubica18 February 2012 at 08:25

    Wow, that was really well done! And demon possesing serial killers, well, that's what I call hell of a match! Poor Sammy! As much as I find Lucifer in his head great, I can't stop but to constantly thinking poor Sam, it's looking bad!

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  71. J.d. Ruud18 February 2012 at 09:04

    humans man, humans.

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  72. nellymendezcolon18 February 2012 at 09:59

    this episode was average a script so strange a serial killer using a demon  for help him kill people the writers began to lost creativity or what the only fun parts where the dog acting and lucifer bothering sam & his reation all the rest was laim ,i give a point average of 7.5 the next episode will be totaly diferent castiel shows up at last see how dean react when saw him thats wiil be awesome

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  73. Jenni18 February 2012 at 10:41

    Awesome! Usually I've chosen "OK" but after last night's episode "Awesome" was an easy choice! Loved the episode, I love Ben Edlund, god, he's the motherfking KING. Loved Lucifer, Jeffrey,... Very nice! 

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  74. LaurienWinkel18 February 2012 at 10:47

    I've got one thing to say to Sir Ben Edlund. 
    "Go forth and write more episodes, your holy awesomeness!"God we needed an ep like this. Loved it!

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  75. Nikita Ahn18 February 2012 at 11:20

    Great ep!  I hadn't seen a promo, so I was really rootin' for Jeffery at first.  I thought he seemed sweet and I was really hoping he would make it out alive.  That made his eventual reveal as evil all the more effective and creepy.   Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Jeffery! LOL  

    I'm really, really pissed that they killed the pup, though.  :(  As soon as they introduced it as a character I thought to myself "just don't hurt the dog, people, whatever you do, let the cute little shaggy mutt live!"  And when it carried it's cone all cute and jaunty as it trotted off to its demise, I actually cried.  Not like a solitary, dramatic tear, but like "scared me cat off my lap" crying.  Yeah, I'm a serious animal lover.  So sue me.  I cannot STAND animals being hurt, even in fiction.  I don't eat meat, I don't squish bugs, I can't even scold my two rescued kitties.  Oh, and the poor doggy was a RESCUE to boot!  That was the real waterworks cincher for me - all I could think was "poor doggy obviously had a rough life, and she finally thought she had her forever home and she ended up as seasoning for a demonic spell!"  I'm already concocting an alternate reality in my head in which Sam arrives in time to rescue the dog, and she goes on the road with him and Dean (who tries to pretend he's annoyed by the fur in the Impala, but who totally adores the dog and is wrapped around her little paw).  Yup.  That's how it happened.  I WILL NOT HEAR OTHERWISE.  

    Also, I was a little thrown/surprised by yet another rape reference - this one far more obvious and explicit than those previous. I mean, Luci came right out and said "rape" to Sam.  They've hinted at it pretty heavily, come close to outright saying it ("you're my little bitch, in every sense of the word" etc), but I'm sort of surprised that they were that blatant about Luci having raped Sam in hell.  It's still such a taboo subject on most shows, ESPECIALLY male rape.  I wonder if they'll address it further or not - I'm not sure how I would feel about that.  As a rape survivor myself, it's difficult to see that subject matter in regard to characters I care about.  But it would also be interesting to have that taboo broken some, because visibility for male survivors is important.  I suppose I'll just have to wait and see - I can't imagine it getting a ton of exploration - this is Supernatural, not Lifetime Movie Network (thank god!).  I just don't want it to be some one-liner they keep tossing at Sam to shock or hint at his experiences, but never actually address at all or resolve.  I guess as a survivor I can't help but want there to be some healing or closure for Sam in regard to any experiences he's had with rape, rather than them just using it as Luci's dark humor over and over. :(

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  76. lanasapphire18 February 2012 at 12:23

    Oh, yeah, thumbs up to the forked tongue! That was creepy-funny!

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  77. lanasapphire18 February 2012 at 12:26

    I know, right?  I knew that poor puppy was a goner as soon as she showed her sweet little face. What was really heartbreaking was she trotted off after Jeffrey wagging her tail and carrying her big plastic surgery collar.  (sob).

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  78. Lynda Clubb18 February 2012 at 12:55

     Pellegrino was awesome as the abusive ex-husband on Dexter. Very multi-layered, edgy character and truly talented actor. He juggles violence, humor, snarkiness and creepiness. Great villain.

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  79. Kat18 February 2012 at 14:09

    That was my question as well, where did the devil's trap come from? I think Jeffrey probably drew it just in case.

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  80. Kat18 February 2012 at 14:17

    Why do dogs, rabbits, and love interests have a short life on Supernatural? I was more worried about the dog then the brothers...knew Sam would save Dean. Really wasn't my favorite of the season...still having issues with the dog getting ganked. And the hallucination of the people beating their heads to a pulp was just out of nowhere? Lucifer wanting Sam to pay attention to him and pouting just reiterates what was said in seasons 5-6 about angels...whiny little brats. Also I didn't buy Dean sleeping while his brother was obviously having a major breakdown. Dean's a hunter he would have known something was off with Sam.

    The actor who played Jeffery did an amazing job portraying a serial killer. At first I sympathized with him then was glad Dean shot him. An OK episode. The fact that Baby was in the first scene was a nice touch. They said she'd be back. Guess though only as a cameo...

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  81. Kat18 February 2012 at 14:22

    Ok, so I wasn't seeing things. I haven't rewatched it but I thought I saw a forked tongue, but thought my eyes deceived me and he was rolling his tongue. Glad to know I wasn't seeing things.

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  82. chris68418 February 2012 at 14:34

     So I just rewatched the episode.  This is the first episode I felt compelled to rewatch right away in a long time.  I was on the edge of my seat in both watches, so I hope the people who were hoping SPN would get back to scary episodes appreciated this one?  Also, Lucifer was hilarious, and the scene of the people in the library banging their heads will become a classic.  Awesome!

    A few things I noted the second time around:

    - Lucifer was encouraging Sam to get more forceful with Nora.  The few times this season we've seen Sam seem to channel RoboSam, maybe this was what was going on behind the scenes?

    - I saw some parallels in Slice Girls to where Sam was in season 3.  He was feeling very powerless - especially to save Dean - and he was getting frustrated at Dean's reluctance to try to save himself.  In Slice Girls Sam seemed very frustrated at Dean's self-destructive, passively suicidal behavior, and was again feeling very powerless.  It was in season 3 that Sam started seriously considering tapping into his powers, and now he's let Lucifer back in. So I think the fact that the flashback was to something that happened around the time of season 3 wasn't a coincidence.

    - I'm suspicious of the way Nora avoided stepping into the demon trap.  She made a comment that it was wet paint, and for now, I'll take that at face value, but if we see Nora again, I expect there to be a twist.  If there is a twist, maybe it will explain where the devil trap on the warehouse ceiling came from.  There really is no plausible explanation for it, and it seems unlikely that Edlund would be so careless with that detail.

    - The demon made a comment about them coming back - back in black.  Was he talking about demons or the Leviathans?  If it's the Leviathans, is there more of a connection between Leviathans and demons than we know of so far?  If there's a connection, could Sam's dormant power with demons work on the Leviathans, and maybe that's why Sam and Dean are on their radar?

    - Regarding the comments about a parallel between Dean and Jeffrey, I see where that's coming from, but what Dean was relating to was mostly lies - I think Jeffrey was telling Dean what he thought Dean would sympathize with - and I think this was to throw us (the audience) off track.  Those who weren't reading spoilers were expecting it to be about Dean again, but instead it was about Sam.

    - I was watching this closely to figure out exactly when and how Sam let Lucifer back in.  Lucifer begged Sam to really interact with him, and when Sam started tossing ideas back and forth with Lucifer he was interacting with him. Lucifer said Sam wanted him, and I think that's true. Jeffrey felt stronger with the connection to the demon - it set him on his true path - and I think part of Sam feels the same way with Lucifer.  He's always felt split between his demon side and his hunter/family side, and I think Sam might need to accept both sides in order to heal and find some peace.  I think were clues to this in The Girl Next Door, when Sam talked about accepting that he was a freak.  Amy represented this acceptance of his monster side, which is why it was so disturbing when Dean gutted Amy. I think this quote by Sam was a hint of where we're going with the Sam/Lucifer thing: "I might be a freak, but that's not the same as dangerous."

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  83. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 15:01

    Sorry, but I have to disagree on the letting Lucifer in part.   Sam let Lucifer in before the end of the episode...when he realized Dean was in trouble and thought he had no other way of finding him.  I don't think there was a hint of Sam actually WANTING Lucifer back in there...if that's true, all he had to do was stop squeezing his hand.  So if that's what you're suggesting, I disagree strongly.  And his not going away once he got in, that was actually a brilliant depiction of the insidiousness of psychological disorders...once you open the door, it can be difficult to close it again no matter how much you want it closed.  I'm not sure Sam's got the strength to close it himself...I think he's going to need Dean's help for that, but I'm not sure about that part.

    And Jeffrey did not sacrifice himself to send the demon back to Hell.  The point of this whole epi was that he never wanted the demon to leave, not really.  So that paralell is tenuous at best too.

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  84. chris68418 February 2012 at 15:20

    Sam doesn't want the Lucifer hallucinations, but he wants - no he needs - to be stronger, and he's stronger when he's tapping into the RoboSam/Lucifer/demon part of himself.  Fear of losing Dean has always been the trigger to get him to act on this need, but it's there even when Dean isn't in danger.  And let's face it, Dean's in danger just about every episode, so it wasn't like there were extraordinary circumstances this week.  Sam invited Lucifer (the demon side of himself) back in.  It's been building all season with Sam's frustration with Dean, but it was his choice that allowed the Lucifer manifestation to get a hold over Sam.

    Regarding Jeffrey, I rewatched the episode, so I'm a little clearer on the details, but what I was getting at was Jeffrey - in the past - telling Sam to do whatever it takes to get rid of the demon after Sam explained that they were going to need to cut up the demon (and Jeffrey) to get the information they needed.

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  85. Cheryl Wiehr18 February 2012 at 16:10

    I love that we got finally got a full on Sam point of view. Not seeing what Sam is suffering through Deans eye or Sam making a face and squeshing his hand. But a totally Sam point of  view!

    And what a difference it makes seeing what Sam goes through trying to ignore Lucifers presence. My first though is how annoying it must be to have someone in your face all the time talking to you and trying to ignore it but then I remember it's Lucifer and while he might be making me laugh his presence is terrifying to Sam. And to have to ignore Lucifer on top of those  horrible images Lucifer sends his way like those  two people sitting in the library having their heads banged to a bloody mess. Sam just keeps reminding us of the amazing inner strength and courage he possesses and his underlying goodness.
    And he juggles all of  this on top of trying to solve  cases and help people. However herenin Repo man in understandable desperation to save his brother Sam unknowingly  let Lucifer in by engagin in conversation with him. And I think it might take facing Lucifer to defeat him in other words amd I'm quoting my friend as her words fit best
     "Lucifer is a hallucination conjured by Sam's own brain as a way of dealing with what he suffered in hell. So the way to get rid of him is to find some other way to deal - and dealing means  that Sam will have to acknowledge what happened and Lucifer's role in it.

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  86. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 16:14

    Man, they showed us from the beginning that this episode wasn't going to be unicorns and clown glitter.. I loved Lucifer, though!  All snarky and driving Sam crazy.. he was a lot funnier than I was expecting!  Ben Edlund delivered, as usual.  Great episode!  It's going to be tough having to wait until March  :(

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  87. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 16:58

    I was surprised by how brutal they were haha.. all I could hear in my head was past Dean in The End saying, "Oh, we're torturing again?  Oh, yeah, that's classy."

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  88. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:00

    The forked tongue effect was VERY cool.  I actually had to scroll back a few seconds on the episode because I was like "Waaaaaait.. Did I just see...?"

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  89. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:01

    That poor dog  :(  you can try to kill the brothers as many times as you want - they're more than capable of defending themselves, and they always find a way out.  But killing poor, defenseless puppies?  Take a step back.. NOT cool.

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  90. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:02

    Oh, definitely - he was kind of comic relief, which was fun.

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  91. sharonally18 February 2012 at 17:03

    It was a good episode but what Sam was truly dealing with should of been there throughout the season not the writers waiting for Mark to be available as much has I  love Lucifer. Episode 15  was too long a time to wait.

    The dog poor little mutt chosen by the wrong person not good Ben .

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  92. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:03

    I've made peace with the fact that I love Lucifer haha.. it still sounds strange, especially to people who don't watch the show (who I think are really worried about me haha), but it's more than okay to love him  :)

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  93. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:04

    I miss Crowley!  He's been absent for too long - I think he needs to make a serious comeback.  

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  94. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:08

    I think the Leviathans are going to start coming back in a major way - Dean made some comment at the beginning  of the episode about how it has to be "all about the Leviathans now". Fingers crossed!  I feel like the writers really dropped the ball on this one - an episode of filler is okay, but it's been about 5 now.  

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  95. Lissie_Bee18 February 2012 at 17:09

    Hahaha my thoughts exactly - I'm never worried about the boys.. they always manage to figure something out in the end.  But the puppy?  So sad.. who's looking out for him?  :(

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  96. browniegirl2718 February 2012 at 17:17

    This episode was ok.  A little boring in places.  Didn't like the Lucifer scenes.  Jeffrey was an interesting and creepy villain.  I hope Sam can overcome his demon (Lucifer), because I'm not enjoying this storyline at all.  It would be nice to see Sam as Sam for a change, and not the many versions he's been the last few seasons.

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  97. SuePo18 February 2012 at 17:17

    I tend to never take Sara Gamble at her word when she says stuff. She tries to be coy a lot and misdirects. That being said, I can see Sam's memories of Hell being a part of him forever -- just like Dean's are a part of him -- but it would be one heck of a challenge to make him functional after he's gone off the deep end.  So there has to be some logical way to stop the hallucinations or he's not going to be able to be an effective hunter and he'd be a liability to Dean. Dean can't beat the Leviathons, kill Dick Roman, save the world and take care of a guano Sam all by himself. Nobody could.

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  98. CyanaT18 February 2012 at 17:21

    Great analysis, Chris! 

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  99. Michele Klinger18 February 2012 at 18:07

    This episode wasn't what I expected. It was amazing! I was worried about the demon storyline, but it was really twisted and really good. The ending made me totally flip out and now we gotta wait 3 weeks to see what happens

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  100. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:23

    Again, I disagree that he's stronger when he's tapping into the dark part of himself.   I think the whole point of the end of Season 5 was just the opposite...that it's his human side that makes him stronger.  That's what allowed him to overcome Lucifer in the first place and I'm REALLY holidng out hope that it's what will help him overcome Lucifer now.

    I think he learned his lesson about tapping into the dark side of himself when he hooked up with Ruby.   Do you seriously see him making that same mistake again?  I'd like to think he's not that dumb.

    As for Jeffrey saying do what it takes to get rid of the demon...I have to admit that was a bit confusing.  If, as he claimed, he wanted the demon in him, why would he say that?  But apparently whatever that was, it was a momentary lapse because he obviously didn't really want the demon out.  And that's why I don't equate him to Sam...Sam does.  Sam has never WANTED that part of himself, from as early as Season 2 he made that clear.  He chose NOT to give in to it, Jeffrey did give in...that's a pretty big difference imo.

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  101. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:28

    Agreed there.   I'm thinking that it's the same thing that helped Sam overcome Lucifer the first time that will help him this time...his humanity.  I'm hoping that once and Dean both realize that they need each other's help, they'll be able to overcome the hallucinations.  I still keep thinking of when Dean and Death talked last season and Death said "the human soul is more resiliant than you know".   I have to think that was a hint to the ultimate end...that Sam would find a way to overcome the damage Lucifer had done, or at least the hallucinations, by tapping into his humanity.

    I really hope they don't leave this open ended.  As you said...that would leave Sam a complete detriment.  They can't just leave him that messed up indefinitely. 

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  102. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:33

    I never liked Alistair as much as some folks.  Yes, he was definitely the creepiest and most sadistic of all, but I was glad he didn't stick around too long...just not my favorite, and the pseudo Marlon Brando accent drove me nuts!

    As for Lucifer...I never watched Lost so I hadn't seen Mark Pellegrino in anything else.  My opinion is based solely on his performance here.  As I said before, I didn't think he'd be that good at first because I didn't think it would work portraying Lucifer as an ordinary shlub, but the real brilliance of Mark Pellegrino's performance is that he makes Lucifer all the more chilling BECAUSE of that ordinaryness.  He almost makes Lucifer a character you can empathize with, which if you think about it is saying an awful lot! 

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  103. Kerinda Hartson18 February 2012 at 18:37

    you are right thanks I need that I have not been into a show like this sent buffy but this show just gets to me so much I LOVE IT!

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  104. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:37

    I had the same question about the devil's trap.  Hadn't considered that Jeffrey might have drawn it.   I couldn't see how Sam and the lady could've crept in and drawn it without drawing attention to themselves.

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  105. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:45

    Nothing wrong with being a Sam girl but I do think you need to try and not take things so seriously.  Sam will be ok.  I don't for a minute think their just going to leave the character damaged like this forever...it just wouldn't work for the whole show.  Plus, since I love both brothers, I would really hate to see something like that happen to either of them.  I think there's got to be a resolution of some sort coming, we just have to be patient.
    As for liking Lucifer...it's not that we actually like the character, we just like Mark Pellegrino's performance.  He gives real depth to the character, which makes him more enjoyable to watch.  I'm still hoping Sam banishes his ass back to Hell for good this time! :D

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  106. chris68418 February 2012 at 18:53

    "Sam has never WANTED that part of himself, from as early as Season 2 he made that clear."



    Well, he became addicted to the demon blood, so there must have been some appeal it.

    I think we're just going to have to disagree on this.  Sam loses something, without a doubt, when he taps into his dark side, but he is stronger.  RoboSam was a better, more focused hunter.  He killed innocent people, but killed many more monsters, so in the long run probably saved more people.  Demon-blood Sam was able to kill Lilith, something Sam wouldn't have been able to do had he not tapped into his powers.  The fact that he was tricked by the angels and demons into thinking that killing Lilith was a good thing is beside the point.

    I don't think this is about intelligence.  You crave what you crave, and Sam has always been about control.  It took a lot of self-discipline to get good enough grades to get a free ride into Stanford and find a way out of the hunting life.  And even after he had let Lucifer out, the horseman War implied that Sam was still obsessed with power.  And Sam admitted to Dean that he just couldn't stop himself in that same episode.  It's about addiction.

    This season Sam has been distracted as he fights a battle against himself, while Dean has also been impaired.  They lost Bobby and Cas, and they lost other resources such as the Impala.  A big part of Sam's psychological makeup is about needing a feeling of control, so the temptation to tap into the dark side of himself to save themselves and give them an edge against the Leviathans has got to be overwhelming.

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  107. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:53

    Wow, either I'm brain dead or you're really reading a lot into Lucifer's comments, because I have never once made a connection to anything he's said alluding to him actually raping Sam in Hell.  I think whatever happened in Hell was a little more esoteric than that, although the torture Dean underwent and dished out was direct enough, so I guess it's possible.  Still, I think that's a little heavy even for this show so I'd be REALLY surprised if they went anywhere with it.  And frankly, no offense, but I'd prefer they didn't.

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  108. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 18:57

    Soon as they introduced the dog, I figured it was a goner.  Don't know why they always have to do that...sigh.

    As for Dean sleeping...something has been "off" with Sam for months now, why would Dean suddenly notice it being different now?   Sam wasn't doing anything unusual...it's not like he was talking out loud to Lucifer.  Dean was exhausted and he fell asleep...I didn' t think it was that big a stretch.  They were just trying to stretch out the whole Sam not wanting to foist his problems on Dean/Dean trying to let him handle his own problems idea.  That said, I do hope Dean comes around soon (literally and figuratively) because I think Sam does still need him, no matter what either of them think.

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  109. Bec66618 February 2012 at 19:02

    Ok, I'm going to take a shot that you read a lot of that Fanfiction stuff and that's what put the thought in your head.. I hope... 

    I honestly never even thought about that and I seriously doubt the folks at CW did either. It was a play on words "
    The rapier wit. The wittier rape.

    Simple as that. 

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  110. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 19:05

    Good analysis but I still disagree on the Sam choosing his dark side thing.   I don't think he's ok with it at all.  He's never been ok.   In season two he was determined to help as many people as he could so he could "save" himself.   After he gave in to Ruby, he realized he'd jeopardized his relationship with Dean.  I honestly don't think he'd choose to go back there.  Yes, he said he was a freak but Dean said that back in season one about both of them...doesn't mean he was necessarily accepting his dark side.  I think he's never quite given himself enough credit for his human side.  Ironically, back in S2 in Bloodlust, he was the one who reminded Dean that he wasn't like Gordon because he made the right choices.   I think Sam needs to be reminded of that himself.  If he's going to get past this, it's embracing his humanity, not his dark side, that will do it.

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  111. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 19:07

    Ooh, very interesting point about Sam having to confront Lucifer to overcome him...I like it!  I just hope he's strong enough to do it.

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  112. ShatteredOne18 February 2012 at 19:11

    I'm hoping the Leviathans come back in a big way and are the main focus from here on, but who knows.  And ya the 5 episode streak of barely even a mention is kind of annoying.

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  113. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 19:13

    Yes, it's about addiction but I think you're not giving Sam enough credit for intelligence...you know the thing that got him iinto Stanford despite living the hunter's life in the first place.  I really think he learned his lesson after Ruby, I seriously don't seem him taking the chance on tapping into his "power" to overcome the Leviathans.  After everything it cost him last time, I'd like to think he learned his lesson.

    He became addicted to the demon blood because he thought he needed it to help him overcome Lilith.  We saw in "Chris Angel is a Douchebag" that he was fighting the whole idea of it for a very long time.  He didn't LIKE it, but he felt it was necessary.  There's a difference.  And as I said, I think he learned his lesson from that one...at least I'd like to think he did.  I know addicction is an insidious thing, but Sam's been through enough by now and is smart enough to realize that's not the answer.  At least I hope so.

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  114. chris68418 February 2012 at 19:22

    Again I disagree. Along the same lines, Dean should have learned by now that burying your issues doesn't solve them, but that doesn't seem to be the case. People are people, and they have weaknesses.

    I agree that Sam fought the urge for a long time and was very conflicted about it.  But here's a quote from Good God Y'all (after he freed Lucifer):

    "From the minute I saw that blood, only thought in my head...and I tell
    myself it's for the right reasons, my intentions are good, and it, it
    feels true, you know? But I think, underneath...I just miss the feeling.
    I know how messed up that sounds, which means I know how messed up I
    am. Thing is, the problem's not the demon blood, not really. I mean, I,
    what I did, I can't blame the blood or Ruby or...anything. The problem's
    me. How far I'll go. There's something in me that...scares the hell out
    of me, Dean. In the last couple of days, I caught another glimpse..."

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  115. Nikita Ahn18 February 2012 at 20:03

    I never said I wanted them to - I said that if they're going to hint at it every few eps I would prefer they resolve it rather than using rape as a one-liner.  There have been several comments from Luci to Sam that insinuate rape - 
    “You’re my bunk mate, my little bitch in every sense of the word”, "long time, no spooning," and now "rapier wit, wittier rape."  You don't see "you're my little bitch in EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD" at all suggestive of rape?  Because I'm pretty sure that being someone's bitch is common phrasing for raping someone (generally in prison terms, but still).    Also, this is a hallucination - it's actually SAM'S mind that's conjuring up these comments, which to me makes it a little more telling.  I said before last nights ep even aired that I think Hallucifer is sort of a manifestation of Sam's subconscious - which would seem to have been proven last night, with Luci helping Sam solve the case by reminding him that he'd seen that handwriting before, etc.  If Luci is Sam's subconscious, and he's repeatedly conjuring up vague references to rape, that's telling, IMO.  And I'm hardly the only person who's picked up on this - even people here on STV have commented, and I've seen people react to it similarly all over the internet.  

    Here's my thing - I can almost guarantee that if Sam were a woman and Lucifer said things to her like "you're my bitch in every sense of the word" or commented that he missed the "wittier rape", people would immediately see that as a suggestion that she had been raped.  But because we're dealing with two men, people pass it off as just a "play on words" or a joke.  Maybe I'm over-sensitive to it seeing as it's a personal experience that I've unfortunately had, but I don't think I'm "reading a lot into" what Lucifer is saying.  You may not have made that connection, but I'm certainly NOT the only one who has. 

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  116. Nikita Ahn18 February 2012 at 20:23

    Um no...  Other than being arm-twisted into reading and editing one thing that a close friend wrote, I don't read fanfic.  But thanks for making assumptions.  
    What "put the thought in my head" was paying attention to the things that Lucifer has been saying to Sam.  Those things really jumped out at me because I'm actually a rape survivor myself, so comments like "you're my little bitch" stand out like neon signs to me.  But I'm not the only person, by a long shot, that made that connection.  Seriously - look up some reactions to the first few eps of the season and last night's ep, in particular the lines like "You're my bunk-mate, my little bitch in every sense of the word" or "long time, no spooning."  It's hardly a stretch to say that Lucifer stating that he "misses" the "wittier rape" (in conjunction with the bunkmates/bitch, etc comments) could be an insinuation or a taunt regarding something that happened in hell.  I'm pretty sure that the writers (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "the folks at the CW") are aware of the insinuations that they're making, too, rather or not they ever plan on expanding on that idea.  If a male character were saying these things to a female character, people would immediately conclude rape.  But because it's two men, people's reactions change.  I'm not gleefully reading into things and HOPING that I'm right and Lucifer raped Sam - honestly I don't want that to be the case, because it would be hard for me to watch the show if they actually addressed that.  But I also have an issue with rape or the suggestion of rape being used as a one-liner or joke over and over.  If they're going to go there, I would prefer they treat it with some gravity rather than making jokes.  

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  117. rehabber18 February 2012 at 20:25

    That is the first thing that I thought also when I heard those comments from Lucifer, maybe I just watch to many prison shows. lol

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  118. Jimi Sturges18 February 2012 at 20:32

    Was good Mark Pellegrino was funny as hell.

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  119. chris68418 February 2012 at 20:38

    To further your point, the rape references started last season with comments like this one from Balthazar:  'No, you don't (want your soul back). ... 'cause Michael and Lucy are hate-banging it as we speak."

    But I also noticed last year that they used an awful lot of explicit sexual references in reference to the Balthazar/Cas/Crowley/Dean relationships, which obviously weren't literal, so I'm taking the rape references the same way.  I wish they'd quit it, though, when it comes to rape.  I think that's taking it too far.

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  120. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 20:46

    Again, and not to discount your personal experience in the least, but I think people tend to put a lot more literal power into some of the words used on this show than there needs to be.  Yes, of course, being someone's "bitch" can be a reference to rape...particularly rape in prison, as you pointed out.  In this case, I think it's being used more generally...as in Lucifer reminding Sam that he "owns" him.  I don't think it necessarly connotates literally being raped.  Again, I seriously doubt the writers of the show are going to go that dark.  

    Perhaps other people have drawn the same conclusion...I've never seen it mentioned before.  It just struck me as reading way more into the whole situation than is necessary...at least I certainly hope so.  I think we get the point of the torment Sam's been through and the psychological weight it's now exerting on him (and yes, of course, this is all Sam's own mind we're seeing...it's not actually Lucifer), I don't think it needs to be taken to that graphic a level. 

    Dean's not the only one carrying guilt around here...Sam feels as if he's "damaged", got a "dark side", because of the demon blood on him.  I think the representation of Lucifer here is his reaction to that side of himself and Lucifer saying "you're my bitch in every sense of the word" is Sam's way of reacting to the ugly side of himself, if that makes any sense.  It does NOT mean that he was actually, physically raped...just that he feels Lucifer has overtaken him completely, or at least some part of him.  At least that's how I see it.

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  121. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 20:50

    Again, yes, Sam isn't perfect and yes, he recognized something in himself that actually craved the power the demon blood gave him.  But the key point there is that he RECOGNIZED it, and clearly from that quote, when he did he didn't like and since then he's once again fought very hard not to give in to it. 

    He's not perfect, but again I think he's learned his lesson enough and I don't think he's just going ot willingly give in to it.  I could be wrong here but I really hope not.  If he does willingly give in to it then i don't see this whole situation having a postive ending and I really hope it does.  Sam made the ultimate sacrifice to correct his mistakes...he doesn't deserve to be left permanently damaged as a result, imo anyway.

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  122. chris68418 February 2012 at 21:05

    It's not that I want Sam to come to a bad end, although I will admit, I find characters going through dark phases more interesting.  It's that I think it was implied in this episode that Sam had the power to keep out Lucifer but at some moment willfully let Lucifer back in, similar to Jeffrey inviting his demon back.

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  123. Nikita Ahn18 February 2012 at 21:26

    I don't really get your interpretation of the "bitch" comment, to be honest.  

    If it were just one comment alone I'd be inclined to agree with you - it's the cumulative effect of several suggestive comments that make it seem like more.  And like I said I'm certainly not the only one to draw that conclusion.  In fact there were also a lot of people concluding similar things about Dean and Alistair a while back.  

    Sam was tortured in hell for over a century, in the worst part of the pit - it's not a stretch to think that pretty much everything you could do to hurt someone was done to him, which would include sexual assault.  And I still think that explicitly telling someone that they are your bitch in EVERY sense of the word is pretty telling.  You can debate back and forth about rather or not anything was actually done to Sam, or people reading "too much into it", but the writers are definitely HINTING at it and playing around with the insinuation of rape a lot. 

    And I still think that if Sam were a female character, people would make that connection much more readily.

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  124. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 21:53

    What I'm trying to gently state here is that I think you may be reading more into it than is intended given yoru personal experince.  Again, I didn't see anyone else drawing the same conclusion.  And frankly, until  you brought them up in this thread, I hadn't even paid particular attention to those quotes you mentioned so if the writers were intending anything else with them, obviously they were missing the point with at least some of their viewers.

    My interpretation of the "bitch" comment is that it isn't a direct reference to rape but a more generalized use of the word to denot have assumed complete control over someone else.  I've heard the word used in that general sense before and that's the way I see it being used here.

    As for the Dean and Alistair stuff...if the connetion with Sam and Lucifer is a stretch, I'm sorry but the connection there is a pure fantasy.  I never saw or heard ANYTHING that drew a connection to the act of rape.  Seriously, I think people are reading WAY too much into this stuff!

    But I don't mean to diminish your personal experience in any way.  I just don't think your personal interpretation of those comments is necessarily the right one here, that's all.  We'll have to agree to disagree.

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  125. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 21:56

    Yes, he willingly let him in in order to find Dean.  That doesn't mean he let him in because he WANTED to, because he's an addict who NEEDS Lucifer in some way.  I just think he learned that lesson and I'd like to believe he's not stupid enough to repreat it.

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  126. sharonally18 February 2012 at 21:56

    Alot have made that connection. Lets put it this way I  dont think Lucifer was playing scrabble with Sam in the pit has far has he was concerned Sam was a toy something to play with .I  agree the writers have hinted at it several times as well which why I dont think it is unreasonable for people to see the connection.

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  127. Nikita Ahn18 February 2012 at 22:15

    Just because I have personal experience doesn't mean that I am somehow unable to be rational about the subject, or that I'm blinded to reason as a result of own experience.  I probably noticed those comments more readily because of my personal history, but that doesn't mean that my interpretation of them is clouded.  It's honestly a little insulting that you presume to know enough about my state of mind regarding my own trauma to be able to deduce that I'm letting it cloud my judgment.  I'm perfectly capable of separating my own experience from a fictional TV show, thanks.  being a survivor doesn't preclude me from being able to make accurate interpretations regarding the show, and insinuating that my experiences on a personal level somehow make me exempt from being able to be rational about this subject is somewhat offensive and definitely presumptuous.  

    I could give you a list of LJ, Tumblr, etc posts in which others came to the same conclusion about the comments Lucifer made to Sam, if you want.  I can google it and easily find many people who drew the same conclusion.  

    Your interpretation of the "bitch" comment is fine - it's ONE interpretation of the word, and it's accurate in that sense - but Lucifer said EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD.  And that encompasses rape.

    I also never said that I saw the Dean/Alistair stuff.  I don't.  Nothing was as explicitly stated in that regard as it has been with Sam and Lucifer.  I only pointed that out to illustrate the fact that I'm not the only person who sees those overtones in the show, and that it's not just Sam fans that see those overtones.  

    But fine - we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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  128. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 22:39

    I never meant to insinuate that your personal experience makes you irrational or incapable of understanding what the writers intended.   That's why I was trying not to refer to it directly in the first place.  But the fact is that personal experience necessarily colors anybody's interpreation of material they read/watch...that's true of everyone.  We all come at it from our own unique angle and I just meant to point out that just because that's your interpretation...borne from your own personal experience...that doesn't necessarily mean it was the writers' intention.

    Sorry if it came off sounding insulting, that wasn't my intent.  But I do disagree with your interpretation...and anybody else's who happens to have read that meaning into the words. 

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  129. Deangirl18 February 2012 at 22:51

    Not unreasonable no, but that doesn't make it accurate.  Just because you read something one way does not mean that was the writer's intention when he/she wrote it.  THAT'S the point I've been trying to make all day.

    Is it a POSSIBLE conotation of those words?  Sure.  Is it the ACTUAL meaning or the intent the writers had when they wrote them?  Short of asking them directly themselves, we don't know that.  

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  130. chris68418 February 2012 at 23:13

    The addiction discussion was a response to your assertion that Sam never wanted his powers and is not really relevant to this past episode. But I do think that after a few months of feeling very helpless, Sam was drawn to the idea of getting some help and strength from Lucifer. Part of him does want that, even though he knows better. I think Jeffrey's story was meant to parallel Sam's - including the part about wanting the clarity that he got from the demon - so I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

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  131. Sassita18 February 2012 at 23:22

    OMG ! That was one  of those episodes that gives me chills ! The duo Sam-Devil is exquisite : Sam plays so well the victim and the Devil awesome & creepy at the same time ! 
    Dean bad ass as usual ! This episode reminds me why I LOVE and follow SPN for seven years now <3

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  132. Bec66619 February 2012 at 00:10

    I'm sorry for what happened to you, really and truly. No one but you can know what you are going through. I just don't think that is what the CW and Supernatural are doing. I'll admit I could be wrong but I don't think this is the type of show to bring in the topic of rape, regardless of sex in such a veiled manor. If it was what they wanted to bring out it would be out front and dealt with. Not innuendos. 

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  133. jensenandsam19 February 2012 at 04:38

    Still to watch :D excited 

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  134. SammyWsGirl19 February 2012 at 04:52

     Ummm, well. I guess telling Sam "You're my little bitch in EVERY sense of the word" along with "Long time no spooning" on top of "Bunk buddy" couldn't allude to rape at all whatsoever, huh? Really? I think comments like that make it pretty clear what Lucifer did here in this case.

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  135. rehabber19 February 2012 at 04:58

    LOL, I think some fans have just led very sheltered lives and I guess that is a good thing.  My first thought was..another reason not to go to hell.

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  136. Drezza19 February 2012 at 07:34

    How I wish this moment arrives soon... :D

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  137. Bisma19 February 2012 at 09:05

    I must say that I've missed the demons! the leviathans seem idiotic!
    Good episode and poor Sammy!

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  138. Deangirl19 February 2012 at 14:28

    Ok, I'm going to try this one more time since I'm obviously not getting my point across.   In watching this show you have to remember that they're talking about concepts...faith, beliefs, the soul, heaven/hell, good/evil..that go WAY, WAY beyond the literal, physical human interpretation.  Therefore you really can't take what's being said in a literal sense.  It's the writers trying to express extremely esoteric concepts in a literal way...doesn't mean that they are directly expressing a literal realitiy.

    And if you need a literal point to gnaw on, remember ithat it wasn't Sam's physical body, but rather his SOUL that was in Hell for a century.  Accoding to both Cas and Sam, his body was brought back up almost immediately after he jumped.  So unless you interpret the soul as an exact physical replica of the body there is no physical, literal way for Sam to have beern raped by Lucifer.

    Those words are being spoken by the Lucifer that Sam is conjuring in his mind.  It's Sam beating himself up...continuing to dwell on his own dark side.   It's that dark side that is speaking to him, not the actual entity we know as Lucifer even though it's taking his form.   So the torment being described is PSYCHOLOGICAL, not literal.

    And as for the "your my bitch IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD" phrase that everyone seems to be so stuck on...remember when  Lucifer was actually inside of Sam's body at the end of Season 5 and showed Sam all of the people in his life who had been possessed when he interacted with them?  Lucifer was basically telling Sam that he owned him...that his whole life he'd basically been playing by Lucifer's script.  Since Sam already believed at that point that he had a dark side, I think that revelation stuck with him and that's what is being reflected by the words "in every way".   Meaning...I own you, you're mine.   In this case, "EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD" means far beyond the literal, physical.   He's talking body, mind and soul.

    Again, Nikita, if you're reading this, I never meant to insult you or belittle your experience in any way and I don't think it makes your interpretation of those words irrational or wrong..it's simply that, YOUR interpretation.   It doesn't necessarily mean it's what the writer's intended.  I think they probably expected all of us to come at it with our own personal intterpretation because, as I said, the topics they are dealing with in this show are so esoteric and so very subjective.  I just persionally think it's wrong to put such a singularly literal spin on the words given the overall context.   Hope that makes more sense.

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  139. Deangirl19 February 2012 at 14:33

    I definitely agree on the Leviathans.   I MUCH prefer the demons.  I'd rather Crowley were running around as the big bad...he at least made the bad stuff fun, even while he was being nasty.

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  140. sharonally19 February 2012 at 14:47

    Doesnt make inaccurate either. None of us are reading it the wrong way because you dont see it or want to see it. We could be wrong right there barking up the wrong tree but I  dont believe I  tend to read something into something unless it is there to be read. But we can disagree on this doesnt make either wrong.

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  141. Deangirl19 February 2012 at 14:57

    Sheltered rehabber, really?   Nobody here is denying that the phrases in question, in their popular context, refer to the act of rape.  Some of us are just leaving open the possibility that there could be more meaning to them than just that, especially within the broader context of this particular show's subject matter.

    No offense, but frankly I think it's the folks who seem intent on seeing only one, very literal interpretation of them who are looking like they've led sheltered lives. 

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  142. Lubbeelou19 February 2012 at 16:38

    I loved seeing Lucifer again. He creeps me out so much but I love him!! Mark Pellegrino is amazing!

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  143. Jimi Sturges19 February 2012 at 16:57

    Was good Mark Pellegrino is funny as hell and always plays the best bad guys

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  144. SammyWsGirl19 February 2012 at 17:28

     I'm sorry, but... you think *we're* reading too much into this? I think you are and I think you're trying to come up with every possible explanation and excuse that this isn't what it alluded too. This is the Devil, Deangirl. Seriously. If you deny that rape is even possible in this case, you're in denial and delusional. Most people picked up on that saying right away when Lucifer repeatedly stated as much. Perhaps you're angry because Sam may have possibly gotten it worse in Hell than precious Dean, I do not know, but one thing I do know is you can repeatedly scream what you think until you're blue in the face. It doesn't make it fact. Nor does the fact that Lucifer raped Sam make it fact unless the writers and producers confirm that themselves to be true, but since that episode aired, many many people have believed it to be true, except for the rabid, in denial Dean girls. So, please stop trying to shove your views down my throat. I'm not going to listen to you. I'm not going to change my opinion. I just can't help but laugh at how violently you've been flinging yourself at a few people because we don't agree with you or you don't agree with us in terms of what happened to Sam in Hell. So, as I said, you call tell me or anybody else that is in agreement with me what you think until you're blue in the face, but we aren't going to change our opinions in most cases. If you think it's wrong, that's fine with me. So, does that mean it's more wrong than Wincest (brother on brother gay sex) or attempting to claim a straight, human male is gay (Dean/Sam) and is fucking an angel (Castiel/Gabriel)? Just sayin'.

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  145. SammyWsGirl19 February 2012 at 17:33

     Interesting. Now you're contradicting yourself. Weren't just telling Nikita a page or so back that people were reading WAAAAY too much into something? What exactly do you think you're doing here, Deangirl? You're trying to nitpick and search for any other possible reason. How is a very IN YOUR FACE, literal interpretation make anybody lead a sheltered life? Far from it, considering the way it's worded, the way Lucifer said and Sam's reaction showed perfectly to me that I do think it's rape. And it would seem I'm not the only one, yet here you are making a big deal out of it. I wonder, if this were Dean, would you be making the same big deal out of it or would you be throwing yourself all over the board going "Oh, poor Dean! He was raped by Lucifer!" like most Dean girls? I mean this is what I see, so I'm asking you an honest question.

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  146. SammyWsGirl19 February 2012 at 18:26

     Wow... that was really insulting to Nikita.

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  147. Deangirl19 February 2012 at 18:31

    And I'm giving you an honest answer...the last one I'll give you.  I am not a "rabid Dean girl", nor do I tend to go overboard with emotional reactions to what I'm seeing in a TV show. 

    In point of fact, I would have ABSOLUTELY the same reaction were it Dean we were discussing.  I think the people who are making a literal interpretation of the rape references aren't seeing the bigger picture, as I've now explained several times over. 

    My "sheltered" response was to rehabber, not you, and was made in jest.  I just found it ironic that those of us trying to have open minds and consider various intepretations of those phrases were being accused of leading sheltered lives.  Sorry if you don't get the joke.

    And no, I'm not contradicting myself...what I said was she was reading too much into that phrase by assuming that it was meant literally...giving it way too much weight in one particular direction.  May have sounded contradictory, but there it is. 

    To each his/her own.  But please don't equate me to "rabid Dean girls" or fan girls of any kind.  That's not me and never will be.   I was trying to intellingently discuss the subject...not have it devolve into emotional outbursts.

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  148. SammyWsGirl19 February 2012 at 18:34

     Same can be said for Dean, except in a different context. I'm not exactly enjoying this "I'm so emo and I must convey how emo and tortured and guilty I am every single episode" etc... I'd like for Dean to be DEAN again, but I'm starting to think that's not possible. I'm not really sure how you can just expect Sam, who spent 180 years in Hell with Lucifer no less, to just bounce back and be "Sammy" again. That's not possible. Also, it's been stated that this damage done to Sam is permanent. So, you may want to start accepting it for what it is. Just a minor suggestion.

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  149. Deangirl19 February 2012 at 18:36

    Well thanks for the input.  You can see my response above for my final comment on the subject to you as we obviously will never be able to have a rational exchange on this or any subject.

    If you think I was yelling or attacking or being an emtional fan girl then you obviously don't understand me at alll and you're obviously either unwilling or unable to get the point of what I was saying.   Whatever...to each his/her own.
    So please don't let me interfere with your enjoyment of this show any longer....silly me.

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  150. Bec66619 February 2012 at 19:00

    Wow, why don't you read more and post less. I apologized to Nakita for sounding insulting. Guess you didn't bother to read that.

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  151. Bruce_F19 February 2012 at 19:51

    Honestly, except for the Sam / Lucifer stuff I was bored with it.  Seemed like filler and if you're going to do a filler episode it has to be more entertaining than this, like Pennywistle's was.  Overall, this is an episode I won't be in a hurry to watch again.

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  152. nellymendezcolon19 February 2012 at 20:05

    i said again a serial killer need a demon to kill people so ridiculos all serial are in the top of chain of command of disqusting inferno realm is hard to swallow that script and story line please mr endlund you are inteligent if you lost that mojo call kripke for ilumination this episode was so (blah) empty,running in circles last episode i will see it a couple of time more but this if i realy bored i will.

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  153. Folie-lex19 February 2012 at 20:53

    "Demons I get. People are crazy!"

    (Loved it BTW)

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  154. xan0219 February 2012 at 21:59

    I thought this was the most disappointing of all Edlunds episodes as the writing didn't seem as sharp as normal.

    The flashback confused me as I still can't figure where it fits in relation to previous seasons. I didn't think season 3 Dean had it in him to torture, even with the guys permission, not to mention that by the time they figured out Lilths the one who help his contract, he almost seem resigned that he was going to hell. And then in season 4 it was Sam out to seek revenge on Lilth, not Dean.

    Also when Jeffery listed off the injuries he had received, Dean basically just shrugs and says 'we're the good guys'. It just seemed very nonplussed coming from a guy who seems to feel guilty for pretty much everything.

    And finally you would think that demons after all this time would realise that tying a Winchester to a chair, or tree, or post or whatever is not going to hold them for long.

    Saying all that thought, I did enjoy seeing Lucifer again. The bit when he says 'He told me to shut up' in such a gleeful voice had me cracking up.



     

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  155. Mia49420 February 2012 at 23:22

    I thought it was awesome for a filler episode and enjoyed it much more than the previous one. I guess there's just nothing like a good demon hunt for me. Plus I really enjoyed Lucifer, especially when he gave Sam that vision of people smashing their faces against tables in the library. I like this Lucifer so much more than in season 5.

    Yes, it was predictable and I agree some things in the flashback didn't fit the season 3 Supernatural (I totally agree torture is a post-hell thing for Dean), but an idea of someone enjoying being possessed was something new and refreshing and overall the episode had me interested all along. I think it's my favourite one after midseason.

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  156. rehabber21 February 2012 at 12:53

    Castiel and Damon are at it again, go vote for your favorite here

    http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/02/tvs-most-crushworthy-creatures-misha-collins-vs-ian-somerhalder-and-two-vampire-diaries-femme-fatale.html

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  157. rehabber21 February 2012 at 15:33

    Anyone see Being Human last night, Mark was doing to Aidan, as Bishop,  what he is doing as Lucifer to Sam.  Damn that man is awesome getting into people's heads.

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  158. nellymendezcolon21 February 2012 at 16:48

    he is very creapy the scene when he shows his tonge broken in the midle waaak,his eyes expretions uyyy terrify.

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  159. nellymendezcolon21 February 2012 at 17:02

    i vote for castiel for fans support but i like damon too ( mmmm),womans side elena no doubt about it

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  160. rehabber21 February 2012 at 18:15

    Yeah, it is always hard on me when I have to pick between Castiel, Damon, Dean or Sam and as much as I love Caroline, Katherine is my favorite female vamp.

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  161. nellymendezcolon21 February 2012 at 18:21

    Disqus generic email templateis my second time that I vote for a poll you find continue to do it,is fun how people react about it in a positive way without insult anyone take care my on line friend good job.

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  162. lsbloom22 February 2012 at 03:33

    The show feels so hollow right now, especially the standalone episodes. The boys are just hanging out there all alone and without even an overarching enemy to ground them.

    I miss Bobby.

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  163. neon_ruby22 February 2012 at 15:02

    A really dark episode with Jeffrey being a serial killer and enjoying being possessed and Sam's hallucinations. I had a hunch Jeffrey would turn out to be the bad guy but it was still kind of disturbing - we're use to supernatural evil not human evil. Loved having Lucifer back. Overall, I thought it was an awesome - more serious than the last ep but we need some dark with our light.

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  164. keithfan22 February 2012 at 16:47

    I loved it! Poor Sammy and falling for the devil's tricks (but we have all been there). I was surprised at Sam's lack of surprise when the episode first started and Luci made an appearance. It seemed like he had been around for a good while. Dean has no clue what is happening and when he does figure it out, I hope he can save Sam. So, now we wait another couple of weeks once again for a new episode, but it will definitely be worth the wait. I hear we will get to see 2 episodes this week and next to replace the Secret Circle. This week I really need something to look forward to-yesterday my beloved co-worker quit on me (I have been on the job officially 7 months) and I found out my 12 year old cat is diabetic. I just hope I can do this. I have been tested so much in the last year and I was hoping that the new year would get off to a peaceful start. The week is not all bad, though, Keith Urban has a number 1 song!

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  165. CyanaT23 February 2012 at 05:14

    My best guess is that the "flashback" took place after 3.15 (TIOMS) and before 3.16 (NRFTW) because the boys knew Lilith held Dean's contract because Bela told him before the Hellhounds got her. Both boys were committed to saving Dean from Hell at the point, though not to the extent that Dean wanted to risk Sam and Sam's soul by allowing Ruby to train Sam. The boys roughed up the demon in the beginning of TIOMS, too, to learn who held Dean's contract but not to the extent that did Jeffrey. But Demon!Jeffrey knew the next demon up the foodchain who could help them get to Lilith. My guess is that they ran out of time because Lilith's lieutenants were playing keep away. 

    But I did think Dean's reactions to torturing Jeffrey were "off", too - he wasn't nearly as visibly horrified that they had to take it so far as I would expect-  in spite of the fact that Jeffrey had given the boys his consent to do their worst to get the demon to squeal - my guess is that Jeffrey was a masochist as well as being a more than willing partner in the murders.  

    I agree and I loved all of the Sam/Lucifer scenes!

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  166. sky_girl8528 February 2012 at 14:00

    "He said "shut  up" to me!" <3 xD

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  167. Charlene Buchanan14 March 2012 at 04:34

    loved it ! great .Loved the flashbacks and seeing dean bad ass again .The story was so good and creeppy lucifer was just amazing mark p is truuely a great actor.Jeffery i kindy had my doubts about him just didn't understand why the woman would help until her son was kidnapped.Even though Dean was tied up he was giving back talk to the demon like the old days not like in season 6 when needing rescued and being a little mouse  i mean he got out being tied himself and back to shouting :).Poor Sam though i think that lucifer is only having more affect cause sam let him help him and talked to him so it made him reality .I just hope he's ok 

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