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POLL : What did you think of Alcatraz - Paxton Petty?

14 Feb 2012

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68 comments:

  1. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 02:57

    I loved it! It was a pretty great episode, and I love this show.

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  2. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 03:14

    Glad to see Lucy Sengupta in the review! I hope  she plays a large part in this episode as I find her involvement in the overarching story intriguing to say the least!!
    While the rolling landmine was cool I thought they were pressure released. Meaning that when he hit it and released his hand it should have exploded then... not 2 or 3 seconds later after it rolled down the hill. Maybe he just armed it and it triggered when it rolled onto its top side or hit the car? 

    Milton Beauregard? Wow that sir, is a mouthful! I guess he was born around the turn of the 20th century though so Milton was a more common name. I know I had a great, great uncle of that name...

    About time someone finally asked what these 63s are thinking when they return! 
    More thought and investigation should be put into what they did the entire time they jumped "back" from Day 1 to capture! And not just during their search period either. A mystery this large deserves a little post-capture investigation I think. Of course that would mean Hauser may have to allow some face to face jail interviews from Alcatraz 2.0.....

    I like this Petty 63... Although I do wonder why Hauser decided walking up on a notorious landmine planter who is actually planting landmines in the sand he was walking on might be a good idea.... and why Rebecca did not call Tanner BEFORE they drove to Sunset Beach to rescue Hauser....

    I found it interesting that the two experiments done on inmates may not be at all related in the end. Beauregard seemed to be interested only  in the blood (and therefore possibly behind the cryogenic side of things) and Lucy seemed to be only interested in the memories and "reprogramming" of the inmates. I wonder how that will carry over into the myth arc... Are they on the same side in present day even?

    I liked the episode for the connection to the myth arc more than the COTW. Petty was fun, but something was missing from the episode in the standalone sense. Still great, but not awesome for me I guess.

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  3. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 04:12

    Hmm interesting bit I noticed when I made some screencaps...

    Hauser's badge # he is wearing is 9726:


    Hauser's badge # inside his trunk is 9021:

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  4. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 06:18

    Inside of Trunk:

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  5. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 07:13

    Has anyone else noticed that this show is seriously going all out with the crimes? They showed a dog getting blown up...along with a park full of people.

    They really don't hold back (you know, like other Abrams shows overall) and it's that visceral intensity that keeps me interested in this show the most. It's a crime show, and it does the crimes well. 

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  6. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 07:47

    They really do try to make the all the modern day crimes worthy of being done by "the worst criminals ever".... at least in the 1950s and 1960s).

    Killing or kidnapping younger kids, indiscriminately killing random people... Yeah it can be pretty vi visceral at times!

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  7. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 08:01

    Terrific writing and excellent production.

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  8. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 08:21

    The landmine was activated by the inmate, then set off when it touched the floor on its pressure plate.

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  9. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 14:19

    I love that this episode showed a little more background on the prisoners lack of knowledge of what's happened to them, and I believe that Sengupta had a lot to do in this; I can't wait for her arc to be expanded.

    I have to say that I feel like they've left us hanging in the Madsen department, and I don't think that it was in a good way. Nothing has been given to the viewers about him, really; we know that the good doc is taking his blood, we know he's Rebecca's grandfather, and that he killed her partner, but I feel like we should at least see how he's important to the plot at some point and it's getting a little frustrating, to me at least.

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  10. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 14:35

    the freaking guys legs just disappearing! that was an f'ing intense scene.. loved it. 

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  11. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 15:05

    It's odd since we know more about Tommy Madsen than any of the other inmates, but it feels like we don't know enough because we know at least in his particular case there is so much more to know! The more we learn about him, the more questions we have about him. 

    I think the show is walking the line between procedural open and close weekly episodes and a serial series interconnecting episode fairly well honestly. If they answered too much more about Madsen and the mystery it may ruin the overarching mystery of the series by giving too much away. 
    Overall I don't mind the slow build so much honestly, but I know some hate it. If Madsen if a very important part of the overarching story then I can understand not revealing too much information too fast. I'm not sure I want to know how everything fits together before it is time to fit the pieces together... in or around the season finale. There is probably a happy medium, but I'm more than happy the show has an ongoing mystery. In fact, It's what makes me like the series as much as I do!

    The part that bothers me is that Rebecca and Soto are not actively trying to figure out more about her grandfather. Every episode or two we get some big reveal relating to Tommy Madsen and then the following week Rebecca just goes on as if nothing has changed.  Her grandfather she thought was a guard was a convict... Then we never hear her mention it in the following episode. Her fake uncle Ray is actually her real great uncle Ray.... and then we don't hear them mention it this week at all. As a professional investigator I would expect her to be asking questions and searching for answers actively! 

    I wonder if good old FOX shifted episodes around and aired them out of order?  I have seen some varying episode orders, but I chalked it up to rumors and speculation being wrong and not actual out-of-order airing.....

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  12. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 16:14

    Now if only the cops were... you know... good cops.
    That dumbass "I GOT IT!!!" He was such an idiot. Anyone with training like that wouldn't be so stupid to hold it up, he'd probably let it detonate...there WAS time to let it detonate as you run away in your well-armored suit.

    They really need to get the main characters and their jobs up to the par of the unbelievably gifted criminals on this show.

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  13. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 17:22

    "We witnessed him at Alcatraz, but Soto did not write about him... Why? " 
    and IF he didn't include him in his books, he still knew who he was.. him and Hauser recognized the land mines as Paxton Petty at the same time.
    It could be said Soto did include him but was trying to mess w/ Petty, hit that sore spot he has about being ignored for what he's done...  but it intrigues me more if he did purposefully leave him out.. b/c he was never officially there.

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  14. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 17:34

    What Tanner id was the equivalent of of an NFL kicker kicking a mid-range field goal and then jumping up to celebrate only to pull a hamstring injuring himself.
    *Yeah I'm pointing at you Gramatica!*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK81Ej5hm8s 

    Terrible scene, although I suppose there are idiots everywhere... even in highly trained life or death job positions.

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  15. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 17:52

    I was wondering if Soto was taunting him by not giving him satisfaction too... but I don't know what would be gained. That seems more like a Hauser move than Soto too....

    I was wondering if something happened to Petty BEFORE 21 March 1963 so he was not at Alcatraz when the 63s disappeared maybe... So Soto knew about him from Alcatraz research, but never actually wrote about him.

    Either way this show typically has 1 or 2 things like that every episode. Continuity errors, simple mistakes in editing, or Bad Robot playing with viewers' minds and dropping seemingly unimportant hints that will come back into play and be important later...

    Off the top of my head I can think of 3 or 4 more events like that...
    - Doc saying Hauser trusts his scientists more, but the geek squad has never been out of "the room" and Doc has never seen them. How did he know Hauser had his own super secret science squad?

    - Guy Hastings, who has been "disappeared" from 1963-2012 recognizes  a Mustang is following him even though Mustangs were not released until 1965? Maybe Alcatraz had a nice periodical library? XD

    - Van Madsen being born 3 years after his mom was killed according to the tombstone. Was his mom brain dead but kept alive on life support for conjugal visits for 3 years? Ewww!

    -  Hauser's badge number he wore not being the same as the badge number he stored in his trunk. Maybe his dad was a cop or something. This one is easier to accept for me! XD

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  16. DarkUFO14 February 2012 at 17:57

    Another solid episode, I like how we are seeing more of Lucy back in the 60s. Also interesting just how little the inmates seem to know, like they just wake up randomly in places 50 years in the future hmmm.

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  17. magnutude14 February 2012 at 18:58

    Solid ep with yet another creepazoid returnee. Finally got some background development on Hauser and Lucy (who looked hot). I hope we get more on Hauser and we can get beyond the menacing glares and find some personality. Interesting to note that this returnee (and assumed the others) didn't seem to know what happened to themselves. In this case, he said that he went to sleep "a week ago" (or something to that effect) and it was 1963, and then he awakes in a tomb in 2012... I'm just a little curious that instead of being confused/bewildered/amazed by what happened and the "brave new world", they apparently go on missions to wreak havoc as if they were programmed to do so... I am also a bit wondering why Hauser/Lucy with the "new Alcatraz", the fancy computers, the secret room with the science guys think tank (that apparently never come out as Soto and Rebecca don't seem to know about them), don't seem to have any other field personnel to catch the returnees... perhaps there are returnees elsewhere around the country and this "agency" is spread thin

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  18. Cliff14 February 2012 at 20:39

    Nice ep, buuut did they really have to put those two little scenes with mutual Madsen/Soto jealousy next to each other? Just like the two Petty-gets-surprised-from-behind scenes? Why would Madsen risk being blown up, too? =)

    The now somewhat trademark lazy Alcatraz writing aside, I really keep enjoying this show, and I so hope they'll order a new season soon!

    I just wonder if there'll ever be two bad guys going on a rampage at the same time? They all follow each other so conveniently...maybe if someone fails, the next one gets his try? =)

    For the die-hard fans, I updated my little inmate trading card collection! ;D
    ( http://chapter731.net/alcatraz/ )

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  19. Shaakira Abdul Samad14 February 2012 at 21:59

    love it! more question and no answer! 

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  20. DarthLocke415 February 2012 at 01:25

    Really liked this one! --The first modern day scene with land mines was like something out of FRINGE! Much to talk about. Recap on the way by tomorrow!

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  21. DarthLocke415 February 2012 at 01:26

    Yeah it's pretty gruesome stuff! They have stones for network TV!

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  22. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 01:52

    Has anyone noticed that jack sylvane and petty paxton are the two inmates that woke up in places they been to before disappearing?

    Jack sylvane was in solitary confinement and then wakes up in the same confinement he was in 63.

    Petty mentioned he went to sleep a week ago and wakes up in a tomb in 2012 which the tomb he speaks of is the same tomb where he buried his landmines of which rebecca and soto found.

    If you ask me who ever this guy is he spent alot of time looking closely at jack and petty to go through all the trouble to bring them back into exact places there were in 63.

    Bout tommy we no know nothing bout him what so ever. i mean we have no clue why he was in prison. what crime he commit and if he ever did. how the hell tommy escaped and been on the run for a while with no mission of some sort.

    The idea bout soto saying there were frozen is an idea thats been kinda floating in my mind for a while.

    Time travel not possible because that idea is used in fringe and im sure j.j. abrams wouldnt use fringe idea in alcatraz and secondly for any fringe fans out there i swear i can hear some of fringe music that is used in every episode of alcatraz lol

    If you recall when guy hastings told ray that one night on alcatraz he saw smoke covering the sky my guess that was a image inmplanted to him when he was being cryogenics frozen because when someone gets frozen theres always smoke in the chambers that fills up and clears out after the person is frozen.

    The theory of cryogenics is something im gonna stay with unless theres other theories you people can come up with.

    Btw the idea of how hastings knew bout the mustang what if the person who kidnapped educated them on 2012 telling them what they need to know.

    One more thing i believe jack and cal were the only two inmates to follow orders.

    Jack murdered tiller for one reason only and the reason was because he set up jack and sent him to solitary confinement and making him miss his first meeting with his wife. Cal robbed banks because he was told to find the second key that in fact leads to the big heavy door under alcatraz and jack holds the first exact key.

    My question is who the hell holds the final last key to the door and im guessing warden still has it or maybe its lost somewhere for one of the inmates to find.

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  23. prpleight15 February 2012 at 02:08

    Liked it and hated it.  But I got my major question answered.  They do not all come back with a mission!    

    Loved the mythology information we got.  From, the 63s just waking up where ever they're dumped to the fact that they are just as lost as we are.

    Liked what we learned about Sengupta.  And her  pointing out to anyone not paying attention, that there was something not right about (what's granddad's name again)'s visits to the infirmary.

    Liked Beauregard's reaction to the woman coming in and doing what he couldn't. :-) 

    With all that bomb protective gear on was that bomb really enough to kill that cop?  And, if this guy's old bombs were around would he really have any tricks up his sleeve a 21st century trained guy wouldn't be able to deal with?  That just seemed off to me.  Especially, considering that part of what these guys do when a bomb goes off (and they're told there's a serial bomber working) is they study the bomber's work to understand how it was put together.  That 'you'll never be able to defuse my bomb' bit bounced me out of the ep with credibility issues.

    It seemed to me that one the primary purposes of this ep was to get this team to begin to gel.  Hauser was an arrogant prick and almost died because of it.  If this isn't, at the very least, the beginning of a character turn, for him I will be annoyed.

    The bomber was completely uninteresting to me.  That's not right...they never got me to give a flying fig about the bombs...catching the guy...I just didn't care.  Most of the ep felt kind of flat for me.

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  24. prpleight15 February 2012 at 02:12

    "I also wondered why the Bomb Disposal Unit decided to try to completely disarm the landmine instead of dropping it into one of the explosion containment bins they have for smaller bombs? seems like it would have been the way to go about it... at least in hindsight I guess."

    It felt like the screenwriter did little or not research into modern bomb disposal methods.  Seems lazy to me.  

    I hate it when writers assume it's not necessary to touch base with reality because the 'audience won't know or care'  (and I have heard this from producers.)  Everyone I know notices and cares.  We may have erroneous information from other movies and etc.  but we will  notice.

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  25. prpleight15 February 2012 at 02:15

    When he said that my first thought was that Petty was not on the books as an inmate.  I got impression that he was delivered there for a specific reason (finding out about that last bomb) and not officially transferred there.  I took Soto's statement as confirmation.

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  26. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 03:18

    Lets not forget that jack sylvane and cal sweeny plus guy hastings were the three episodes that were connected to each other.

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  27. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 03:27

    I felt the same way about Paxton Petty, he just was not all that interesting to me. At times I smirked at his his comments, but I never really got into the character. 

    Something about his motivation bothered me. He was whining he did not get his hero award and because he was screwed by the government (in his mind at least), he decided it was okay to mutilate random people with landmines? IT does not connect in my mind, but I am relatively sane I guess....

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  28. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:03

    Nice post and welcome to SpoilerTV!!
     I had not thought about or even noticed that the 63s could be "Jumping" to places they have already been - GREAT CATCH!I wonder if that plays into Lucy's memory experiments and/or some jump-related issues like a person can only jump to a place they are familiar with. Cobb with his last job, Sylvane to his solitary cell, Hastings to his old apartment. I really like that idea!!!The more I try to think of other theories th more I go back to cryogenics too..- The fog you mentioned already, and the San Francisco connection also intrigues me since the oldest cryogenics institute resides in San Francisco. - Toss in Cobb's chatty cellmate, Yapper who quotes religious text that sounds a lot like people being frozen and reanimated (or possibly resurrection in a more traditional sense). "For the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed!” (Homily for the Resurrection)- Then the blood being taken fits in with theories of freezing a human being and the unfreezing effects on red blood cell count."One of the most important early workers on the theory of cryopreservation was James Lovelock of Gaia theory fame. Dr. Lovelock's work suggested that damage to red blood cells during freezing was due to osmotic stresses." (from Wiki)- And to complete the circle, no other theory accounts for why time seems to have stood still for the 63s or why they jump back 50 years later looking the same. A few small corrections or counterpoints though... - We do know why Tommy Madsen was in Alcatraz. He was jailed for killing his wife.http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/210/2915/original.jpg Weak cases can be made for the other jumped 63s missions. Honestly I'm not sold on any of these weak cases, but I'm playing devil's advocate....- Ernest Cobb was sent to kill Lucy. Kit Nelson was sent to spook Soto due to the kidnapping 11-year olds connection. The plan could have been to make him quit Team Alcatraz or to  make him a solid part of the team.- Paxton Petty could be back to stop Hauser since the one case Hauser has been obsessed with for 50 years is Petty and where the fourth bomb is. Either to kill set up Hauser and kill him or distract him from something important.- The weakest case to be made is for Tommy Madsen. He could be back to distract Rebecca, keep her from joining the team or even possibly to protect Rebecca if he knows she is in danger.I'm not sure the silver keys are the same keys Warden James sues to open the room with the Big Heavy Door( BHD) just yet. If you look at the keys closely they have different teeth patterns and different number of grooves on the shaft. So they should be for different locks.... Although a new lock could be on the BHD too.

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  29. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:10

    I assume The Ames Borthers episode will have 2 different 63s at the same time, but I guess they are related. Not the same as two entirely unrelated 63s causing havoc in different places.....

    I wonder if some of the 63s are sent back with a mission and others are escaping wherever/ whenever they are being held. Like if Tommy Madsen found a way to escape  since he knew something bad was going to happen. Maybe working with Lucy Sengupta had something to do with it? Then he escapes and either plays Spartacus and sets the others free, or his escape sets off a chain of events that lets the others escape....

    No support for this yet, but it's something I have thought of once or twice.

    I like the Paxton Petty card! XD
    I did not care for him as a COTW too much, but I like the look he is giving on your card!

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  30. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:13

    I've been wondering what Hauser's geek squad does when not on cases involving Rebecca and Soto too! Also if they were already assembled before Tommy Madsen episode, what have they been doing for that time? Are there more 63s out there like you mentioned? Where they looking for the fourth bomb of Petty? 

    It seems like Hauser having his own science team and doing very little with them right now and that is quite odd!

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  31. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:15

    I had not thought of it that way.. Interesting. As good as theory as nay as to why Petty is not in Soto's books.

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  32. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:19

    Oh hey!
    Did you mention something about the show's episode order being changed once? 
    Or was it more of a rumored episode title order than them shifting episodes around?

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  33. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 04:57

    I think he may not have been a resident of Alcatraz officially like you said since we never saw a proper Alcatraz mugshot or heard his Alcatraz ID#. All we got was his SFPD booking info....

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  34. Cliff15 February 2012 at 08:28

     I'm following the episode order updates over at IMDb and Wikipedia, but they rarely agree with each other. I believe the current correct schedule is as follows:
    Ep. 8 - Clarence Montgomery
    Ep. 9 (Two-parter?) - The Ames Brothers
    Ep. 10 - Sonny Burnett
    Ep. 11 - Webb Porter
    Ep. 12 - untitled (maybe Thomas Madsen? =) - and season finale

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  35. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 08:55

    Hmmm so there goes that theory... XD

    Looks like Paxton Petty was in Alcatraz and does in fact have an AZ mugshot and ID... IT just was never shown or brought up in the episode I guess. Still not sure about why Soto said he did not write about him unless it was just to taunt him... odd.

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  36. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 09:25

    I also read that 1.03 Kit Nelson was filmed before 1.02 Ernest Cobb, but that was simply a script issue and Kit Nelson was finalized before Ernest Cobb was.

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  37. Cliff15 February 2012 at 09:28

     Sweet, thanks! *updating number :>

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  38. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 09:52

    In case you wanted other info for your cards or site...

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  39. Cliff15 February 2012 at 10:03

     It's always welcome, Darque! Gracias ^^

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  40. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 10:37

    I also discovered that Fox/Alcatraz ahs mugshot photos of each of the inmates from the episodes (no Guy Hastings). Better than me screencapping and adjusting perspective distortion! XD

    I added them to our Photo Archive.
    http://spoilertv.co.uk/images/alcatraz/season-1/Misc/ 

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  41. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 15:28

    Thanks for the correction and counterpoints. 

    I forget tommy went to alcatraz for killing his wife. well theres two things that really stood out for me, if you read his bio its says his motives were not discovered which could mean one or two things.

    1. he was setup for a crime he didnt commit so he be sent to alcatraz to have his blood drawn for him.

    2. his wife was murdered during his time at koren war and came home to find her murdered thus setting him up.

    As we know petty and tommy both were in koren war so whos to say tommy wasnt the one who provided petty with the landmines to him.

    And if you recall correct me if im wrong but tommy was talking to jack,ernest and kit when they were in infirmary but we didnt know that tommy was behind the white curtains until kit was beaten by the guards and his blood was also drawn and then tommy said something to kit not sure bout what but i did hear blood in his convo with kit

    One more thing that truly bothers me is if tommy blood was really that important and if they were using it to bring back the other inmates wouldnt they die from blood poisoning as when you mixed two different bloods it causes death in a person.

    Im guessing they were drawing everyones blood but never really showed it.

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  42. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 15:56

    Totally agree about Tommy. Just because we were told he went to Alcatraz for his wife's murder does not mean he murdered her or even that she is dead! XD

    Right I think they were drawing everyone's blood too. Tommy may have been the first and because of that we see him talking to the other inmates in their episodes, but I suspect that all of the misbehaving inmates had to give give blood. It was hinted at, but we have not seen it...

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  43. WeAreLostBeth15 February 2012 at 15:57

     that would def. explain it.. The Warden seems to take an awful lot of pleasure in breaking prisoners and being able to deliver their secrets..

    So if he was not an Alcy prisoner.. how did he become a 63er? did he arrive for breaking that close to Fog night on the Rock, and hadn't been transferred back yet?  Is this why Hauser was with the guard when they discover every one is gone.. Was he there to pick up Petty.. ? Or to visit the 'good' doctor ?  Could Petty have disappeared from his SFPD cell?

    I kind of enjoy all the questions every episode brings but the continuity errors, if they are that, make focusing on a theory very difficult.

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  44. Cliff15 February 2012 at 17:46

    I'm just spontaneously wondering, without having checked any images before, if we've ever read or heard about an inmate's blood type? If not, could be a hint?

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  45. Cliff15 February 2012 at 17:54

    Agree with you on Petty, he was clearly the least developed of the pack so far. All we got from him were some pretty stupid comments. Would one really say "tik tik tik" in a situation like that? Seems like they only filmed this scene to cut it nicely into the promo for the ep. "No you won't" (disable the bomb) - how could he know with his 50-year-old mines?

    At least he indirectly answered a question (the one about all the inmates having a purpose or not), but I also found it weird that he woke up with his bombs and "just wants to know what happened to him" - well he won't find out if he just gets back to bombing anyone.

    He's the first inmate that made little to no sense to me. Not only was he utterly incapable of staying free from Hauser/Madsen constantly finding and surprising him, but he seemed like a mischievious 15-year-old boy that certainly couldn't handle landmines as well as he did.

    But alas, first weak episode always comes sooner or later. Next week looks far more interesting, and Rothenberg will rock, I guess!

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  46. Cliff15 February 2012 at 18:00

    Guess Hastings also won't get one, considering he was never incarcerated. So I guess I won't use the mugshots, since I like consistency xD

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  47. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 18:04

    I do not think we have... Hmmm.  I'm fairly certain we haven't.

    I guess Tommy Madsen could be universal donor type O negative, or maybe he is something rare like AB negative and they need that type for something or someone? 

    It could also be something to do with his military experience maybe. He has some rare occurrence in his blood, and odd antigen or some immunity he developed while in Korea.... Hmmm.

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  48. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 18:12

    He did seem like a spoiled child, petulant I guess.

    I had actually heard about the people who laid down mine fields using nursery rhymes or songs as keys to their placement. So I can see that I guess.

    I do wonder what is going on with hte inmates exactly though... I mean if I were suddenly 50 years in th future and free from incarceration I would go out of my way to avoid going back to prison! They 63s seem compelled to revisit their old crimes after they jump.

    I can see the ones with a mission trying to accomplish it, but not the random kidnappers or killers. IT seems like  Dr. Sengupta's experiments on removing the bad memories to remove the bad instincts in reverse. These inmates seem to be unable to control their impulses less than when they were locked up even. Maybe I'm overstating it...

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  49. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 18:14

    Now that i can think bout it they never did share the info bout the blood type. truth be told im sure back in 63 they didnt have the technology to determine blood type.

    But you might be on to something bout the blood types not being mentioned.

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  50. Cliff15 February 2012 at 18:16

    You could be right, too, though. I don't know how far they were with their medicine back then =)

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  51. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 18:19

    If they seem to be bringing inmates who were in korean war or ww II. 

    My Question is why was cal and jack was intrusted with the responsible of holding on to the key.

    How does tommy dead son plays in all this when guy hastings told ray "since you dont know where tommy is then you will take me to tommy son"

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  52. Cliff15 February 2012 at 18:21

    Maybe Hauser secretly plans to repeat the experiment at the new Alcatraz! =) would at least explain why he keeps returning everyone he finds to it.

    But nice info about the original story with the rhyme locations. Then, I guess, I have to accept it for now ^^

    By the way, this is really the only TV show forum where discussions are actually worth the effort. Good the site exists, and once again, good work guys! (Or gals =)

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  53. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 18:31

    What i dont understand was why tiller left behind in alcatraz if he was working for warden which im sure he may have or may have not been in the loop of whatever was going on under alcatraz.

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  54. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 18:42

    I wonder if it has something to do with the Madsen bloodline... or if it is just Hastings being told to find Tommy and he figured he would find Tommy by finding his son?

    Thinking on that for a second.... if it is not the bloodline might their be some object or information Tommy stole and they think was passed down to his son or granddaughter?

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  55. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 19:14

    possibly and i believe tommy maybe the key to all this because if you recall when they showed a flash back to the day ray and tommy made eye contact and suddenly he snaps and heads him on the bed then saying to him you shouldnt be here.

    From i understand when someone says that it means they either have a plan or they dnt want their loved ones to follow      

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  56. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 19:19

    Yep. That was such a confusing scene to figure out EXACTLY what was going on for me. 

    Did Tommy not want his brother there to protect him, was he mad that people may find out they were brothers? Was he worried it would interfere with a plan to escape he had? Did Tommy take the jail sentence for a crime Ray committed and was mad about it?  OR was it a combination of everything?

    I'm sure we will see more in flashbacks and piece it together eventually.... 

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  57. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 19:29

    Wow i didnt think of it that way. there is a chance tommy didnt want ray getting involved of whatever tommy was doing. 

    warden and tiller did take an interest in ray when they figured he was tommy's brother. 

    Also how come tiller and ray were the only ones who were left behind in alcatraz?

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  58. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 19:31

    Going to post a new comment this is shrinking too much! XD

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  59. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 19:34

    how come it does that lol

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  60. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 19:41

    Boris Breynin  Tiller left Alcatraz in 1962 and joined the FBI. Here is a bit of the page from Doc Soto's book that Jack Sylvane was reading on the ferry. http://alcatraz.wikia.com/wiki/E.B._Tiller
    Ray quit being a guard to raise Tommy's son as th story goes. So he left some time before 12 March 1963, but I don't think we have heard an exact date. http://alcatraz.wikia.com/wiki/Ray_Archer

    Not everything is always reliable on a wiki of course, but I find Alcatrazpedia a pretty good reference source. It's better for some characters than others.

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  61. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 19:50

    Since tiller quit im guessing warden was the one who relieve him of his duties.

    Do you think rebecca knows tommy had a son? We kinda didnt know the reason why tommy son died from?

    what bout rebecca does she know anything bout her parents? 

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  62. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 20:05

    Well Rebecca knows Tommy is her Grandfather so she knows he had a son. It's her dad. She may not know whatever the family mystery is and she obviously did not know that Ray and Tommy were brothers! XD

    I forget.. I think Rebecca's parents died in a car crash, that's why Ray was raising her. I wonder if her parents crash was an accident or someone trying to kill them......

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  63. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 20:10

    The madsen family is key to all this mystery.

    I wanna see if they will show the warden coming to present time and i truly would like to see how hauser managed to reunited with lucy and the doctor along with his reaction to them if they did disappear in 63.

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  64. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 21:11

    End of cal sweeney episode warden is bringing the prisoner who took cal's box down to the basement.

    Prisoner: Where are you taking me?
    Warden: To meet a friend he recent palace cuise caught an eye of a certain subterranean visint. who desires to have a parley. Your future just got heck alot better kid.

    Does that mean anything to anyone?

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  65. DarqueMode15 February 2012 at 21:23

    No one knows for sure what Warden James meant....
    I do know a "visitant" can be a simple visitor, but it can also mean "One thought to come from the spirit world". So it could be a ghost, an alien, something nonhuman or even just a person assumed dead that is alive. Resurrected maybe even....

    The "brighter future" line some think has to do with time travel. Harlan meets whoever is behind th BHD and jumps to the future. It could be someone that wants to experiment on Harlan or that has been at Alcatraz a long time and want to advise or use Harlan..

    Frankly I have no idea! XD
    I'm trying not to jump too far ahead that I get tunnel vision and try to fit everything to a certain theory. Right now I am still attempting to take in these hints and letting it percolate until some theory pulls everything together.

    It's so hard not to run with fun ideas though....

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  66. Boris Breynin15 February 2012 at 22:08

    Fun ideas sound better lol 

    Episodes that involve jack.tommy. along with keys being revealed is the ones where we need to listen closely to.

    The more i watch this show the more it compels me to watch all the episodes over and see if i missed something lol

    Also i wanna visit the famous alcatraz prison and find out  whats the environment is like there and possibly see if its haunted like they claim it maybe lol

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  67. DarthLocke417 February 2012 at 15:55

    Stuff I felt I had to add from discussing Lucy in the forum:

    "..., but then again, I still keep thinking that Edwin James would have to be the one to approve her access to Alcatraz or she would of had to been sent by the FBI...and though she seems nice on the surface, she is still is VERY capable (talk therapy/Good cop-Bad Cop, followed by drug induced hypnosis, followed by electric shock treatment--is that "nice" or just a different method, than cold-water interrogation??) and this leaves me suspicious to her over all motives. And why would Beauregard come to her side? He could have been brainwashed--remember Lucy is the one who believes in 'the alterations of one's memories! ("Cal Sweeney") Obviously we have some missing lynch pin.

    Perhaps Barclay Flynn is a big missing piece???

    The reason I mentioned Mr. Flynn is that he is young in appearance and seemed to recognize Jack Sylavane...and Jack came for the key.

    But also in real Alcatraz history there is "The Barker Gang"---and although Barclay is different than Barker, I have to wonder if this isn't a reference....In myths and in the comic book "Escape to Alcatraz" it's believed that the mother of infamous criminals, blood related and beyond, were working for a master mind 'mother' Ma Barker...One of her son's Arthur, went by the nickname "Doc" (and this is Diego's nick name).

    Even though I think whatever is going on in the show is different than the legend of the Barker Gang, the"Mother Goose" comment Beauregard throws at Lucy, mad me think of 'the master mind mother'....even Mother Goose stories aren't always nice ones...they sound nice, but often tell nightmare situations-like Rock a bye baby, or Humpty Dumpty... (this fits in nicely with Paxton's codes in lyrics)

    I just went to do some research Mother Goose derives from the 1600's (alchemy times) and may refer to "the witch hunt' --or in other words Mother Goose is a witch!

    http://www.rhymes.org.uk/mother-goose-identity.htm

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  68. Bruce_F19 February 2012 at 20:55

    Madsen should have let Hauser have it at the end of this episode.
    Hauser's annoying need to cryptically dictate things and withhold information left Madsen and Soto twisting in the wind and it almost got Hauser killed.  Madsen and Soto had a right to be extremely pissed at him.

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