I was really disappointed in Mary Margaret and David at the end. If he's not going to leave his wife, publicly cheating on her is a really horrible thing to do.
Technically though... he's cheating one his wife with his real wife...so... I don't know i get where you're coming from though but this life isn't real. Not for them anyway.
By that logic nobody should feel anything for the show or have been upset that David chose Kathryn in the first place because that life isn't real. Except the things that they feel ARE real. Someone is going to get hurt in Storybrooke and it doesn't matter that they don't belong there, the emotional pain is still real.
As far as they're concerned, this is real. Which means that both of them are okay with humiliating another person publicly.
Kathryn deserves better than David. Seriously, ten seconds after he tells her he's willing to work on their marriage he is off kissing another woman. What an ass.
I like Snow/Charming, but I am rooting against Mary/David.They are just too unlikable.
BEST SHOW EVER Snow and Charming are the most romantic couple on TV And guys, come on, Kat IS NOT HIS WIFE¡¡¡ He is fighting with his fake memories and his real feeling for Mary¡¡¡
an ok episode. i like charming and snow episodes but this one wasnt u know like unexpected or anything. it was alright, good to see rumple even if its only 1 scene in all, red riding hood was interesting because we never really saw her before and grumpy of the dwarves was good. no idea about the stranger.
Stealthy the Dwarf! And why we've never heard of him.
If anyone ever asks if this show is a soap opera...point them at this episode. It had quite a few of the comforting soap opera cliches. The I'm dumping you for your own good scene. The several 'we can't do this' near kiss scenes. And the forbidden kiss shared in public so that the betrayed spouse's best friend can witness it. Oh, and I almost forgot...he chose his soulmate over his fiance but too late scene. (of course in this case she didn't marry someone else she drank a forget potion) LOL. I love it.
The stranger in town sub plot fell flat for me. This guy is supposed to be Emma's love interest? Cause they had no umphf on screen. (As an aside...Dear costume director..lose that hat Emma was wearing. Unless the laugh was intended.) And the typewriter...really it just played for me as so impractical as to kick me out of the story and get me trying to figure out why the heck the guy didn't have a laptop. (And the whole romantic notion argument *might* work on me if the guy was in a car.)
I loved it, but how will snow reverse the spell. so many twists. It is hard to root for a cheating spouse except they are really married and he has been cheating with kathryn. oh my head.
Good episode, kinda dumb they did that in public though and it sucks that she did end up taking the potion in the Fairy Tale World. Curious how that'll all work out.
Also, I see that it Alan Dale gets to continue channeling his inner-Widmore.
Okay this is getting out of hands. I have a message for all of those people who are going a little overboard about the infidelity.
You people just don't seem to realize that you are imposing real relationship taboos on a very fake relationship. David's feelings for Kathryn ARE. NOT. REAL. They were created. The feelings weren't created, the memories of having those feelings were. Because he thinks he used to have them, he believes he stills haves them, but since they're NOT REAL he doesn't.
If Kathryn had genuine love for David then your hatred of the affair would be justified, but she doesn't! Her feelings aren't real either! Whether or not they know they're not real is completely irrelevant. He thinks he should be in love with Kathryn, but his feelings tell him he's in love with Mary. Considering that his memories of her are fake, why are you judging him? Or Mary?
You're entitled to your opinions, but I have to say that it doesn't make any sense at all to call something an affair when the entire relationship is in direct opposition to the definition of infidelity.
First off, if the curse is never lifted the residents of Storybrooke will never know their old lives. So everything they do in their current incarnations is all that matters while in those incarnations.
Second, even if the "true self" of all the Storybrooke residents is their Enchanted Forest self, there is no guarantee that once the curse is lifted they return to their old lives. They may just remember everything and continue in Storybrooke. So everything that happens in Storybrooke is real and very much matters.
Third, who David (or James) loves is irrelevant to the point, regardless of whether or not they are real feelings or planted memories. His actions however are very relevant to the point. It's okay to not love Kathryn, to love Mary Margaret, or to get separated or divorced. It is not okay to be married to Kathryn and lie to her and be with someone else.... It is not about what he feels for a given person, it's about what he does with that given person. True feelings do not excuse bad behavior. Period.
Last, each resident of Storybrooke lives their current life as if no other life ever existed because they do not know it did. Both worlds matter. The feelings of each Storybrooke resident are VERY real to them. I do not see how you can ignore the reality of their current lives since it is the only life they know and have any control over. If they kill someone or die in Storybrooke it matters. So why should it NOT matter if they betray their spouses or friends? The answer is of course it does matter.
I didn't comment on last weeks, but I wanted to say those child actors from FRINGE's "Subject 13" did a superb job again! --I think the young actress who played Gretel actually looks more like Jennifer Morris (Emma), then Anna Torv (Olivia) and think that Hansel and Gretel might be more than just reflective to Emma's and Storybrook's situation, as I think some people may embody more than one incarnate. (Like how Stilts became more like the man he killed for power...it was like his essence was taken over by the other and bodies are just vessels...)
This weeks episode was delightfully fun! SO MANY LOST Riffs! --Can we say LeFluer Lamour and Par Avon!?! :w00t: Not mention saving those chasing after [Strikethrough]white rabbits[/Strikethrough] pigeon flocks only to slip of an edge and be saved by someone rather important to you! Alan Dale's character continues to be heartless as ever! -Familiarly dividing love!
I still don't know whom a man with an old type writer would be in terms of fairy tale characters, but I liked how the episode basically kind of makes fun of 'the mystery box' concept, but yet kept the viewer eager about it. I almost expected Amanda Foreman to appear! (In Felicity her character Megan was a Wiccan who had this box and we never learn what's in it. This leads Felicity at some point to dream about it, that extends as a twilight zone-like episode, in which Felicity is offered a CRAZY way to cure her broken heart...!)
The typewriter is curious though since it's become an iconic prop on FRINGE, but also that the building that Bad Robot resides in, is disquised as "The National Type Writer Co." :lol:
The only think that I can think of is that maybe THIS strange writer can RE-WRITE the pages of the story, and/or add new stories on! :hmm:
In every scene Dallas and Goodwin share together I have the strong suspicion that Dallas himself has a huge crush on Goodwin. Don't know if she has a husband or boyfriend, but if she does he better watch out...
A few words on the episode: There were as usual those moments that involuntarily made me laugh. This time more than in the last few episodes that have been a bit better. But I've made my peace with some of the terrible dialogues and the often questionable motives and actions of the characters until maybe one day it gets too much for me.
I couldn't stop laughing when Snow White asked Rumpelstiltskin what he needed with her hair, and he said "What do you need of it now, it's been plucked from your head!" Robert Carlyle never ceases to amaze me!
Yeah, as much as I like Snow and Charming, they really went about it the wrong way with Mary Margaret and David. I wanted them to be together, but I didn't want them to be cheaters to do it.
Not a bad episode. A little schmaltzy in my opinion but not bad at all. To those that seem to be having difficulty with the morals of Charming "cheating" on his wife. Umm... SO WHAT!? We're talking about true love here. Love is "the most powerful magic". It's messy. It's damaging. People will get hurt. So Kathryn gets hurt. OK...SO WHAT!? Story telling is supposed to be dramatic. You're supposed to care for these characters even when they do things that you might not fully agree with. It's what makes them three dimensional. If Charming and Snow are meant to be together then they will need to deal with any consequences of their actions. That's what story telling is about. Get over it people and let the writers do their thing. About Charming and Snow kissing. Am I wrong here? I thought the curse was supposed to be broken with True Love's Kiss. Why didn't anything happen? ...... Couple of final thoughts: "Stealthy" the dwarf? REALLY?!? Why not "Sneeky" That sounds a little bit more story time than the modern sounding stealthy......Mr. Mysterious with his typewriter: Seems to me that he is the most powerful character in the whole show. He's the "story teller" The typewriter can probably alter reality to whatever he types.
I agree with you also.. First we also have this issue that there 'were' two Charmings, and seemingly in Storybrook, there is one who seems to be struggling with his identity, this reflects not only the old charming, but the plot with the twin-ish brother...because the two of them wanted to be with two different people, two different purposes, but one is temp. forced to pretend to be someone he's not. Not only in the now has he lied to Kathryn, but in Story Brooke he lies to Snow (we have yet to see if he ever tells the truth about whom he was), but simultamously, Snow lied to him about how she felt and so ALL of the Fairy-tale characters are guilty of deception to some degree (some more than others, all but the children--who reflect the future), that are all also guilty of using magic to help themselves and this was alluded a few episodes back to be mostly a bad thing, thus this why the curse has manifested this way.
Second, even though the characters are cursed, which Story Brooke is the result of, we don't really know what that means in conjunction to other magical objects or other curses/hexes/spells, in addition there seems to be more than one villain, and the idea of someone like Emma plays into the idea of being able to "extend" everyone's story...which is also why I think this man with they Type WRITER is important, because it plays into either "re-writing/re-righting" the wrongs of the curse, and or being able to write additional stories...It's possible that all magic has it's limits and it's could be a battle of them, or not using them, that matters more.
Another great episode! I'm surprised they kissed at the end, I thought that would happen towards the season finale.
I like the new take on the fact there were 8 dwarves! As soon as they mentioned Stealthy, me and my friend looked confusedly at one another and then I realised he would die haha.
The White Rabbit going-over-the-cliff made me laugh. How very LOST indeed! YAAAAY for Apollo bars and mention of 'whispers'
I still have to disagree. For some reason you're choosing to separate their two lives. Personally, I don't know how you think that's logical.
These aren't different people. David is A LOT like Prince Charming and Mary is A LOT like Snow White. Their fake memories haven't changed their personalities or who they are. You're putting waaaay too much stock into how much memories effect feelings.
Even though Kathryn's memories are fake, do you really think she's fundamentally a different person? Did we all suddenly forget how she was in the other world? You're choosing not to combine the two, as if they're different people, but they're not.
So far, everyone we've met who had their memories changed shared a lot of characteristics with their other personality. New memories changed their past experiences, it in no way changed who they are.
There is a connection between their old lives and their Storybrooke lives, and it's not their memories it's the people themselves. Our memories do not define who we are.
Not a single one of these characters are actually different people. As to be a matter of fact, the more their feelings seem to get involved the more they become like their old selves. Do you remember how Graham got his memories back? We saw his life in the fairytale world, was he really any different from the other character with his memories changed?
Don't get me wrong, I see your point, I just think you're using a little too much logic to explain an opinion that involves magic and a fairytale world that you're choosing to ignore to support your point of view. They don't know about the other world, that doesn't mean the people they were in that other world doesn't influence the kind of people they are now. You can't separate the two. :)
Its almost unwatchable in fact. How can a show that I have been really interested in for the previous however many weeks, be so bad this week. Ok I got the hint from the Jiminy Cricket episode that it could be crap but wow, this one beats that one in regards to rubbishness by a mile.
Because there were two of him...there was the man who was the good shepherd, and the original prince...then the prince dies, and the sheppherd is forced/blackmailed to take his place and slay the dragon in order to continue to save his mother and the farm...The fact that there are NOT two now plays into that idea of "whom somebody really is"
Additionally this idea spans further because Stilts was once a shepherd too! And so we see him inflict pain, that was once inflicted onto him--
Just because they don't remember about their past lives, doesn't mean that those lives don't matter (there is no point to tell a story this way just to say there is no relationship) and aren't manifesting here, as this is the point of the curse...but the writers are trying to tell us that there is "fate" written underneath (hence Henry and his book), that who these people were do matter, it's "the reason why" some of this is happening/repeating the way it is, but if they want a better life, they're going to have to make changes...
Graham was able to remember, and because of Emma, he was attempting to change...part of lifting the curse seems to be "memory" -Even Snow Whites kiss awakens Charming, which when last we saw him he was slain, but also plays on a role reversal of Snow White kissing her "asleep" lover instead of the other way around.
Another aspect though is that there are BIGGER fish soley responsible for putting many characters (in the past and present) in 'do or die' situations, which led these characters to make decisions that they wouldn't of had to otherwise. So in that respect even their deception comes out of love and preservation of family...So I think LOVE is the bigger magic and who knows...The Queen too could be poisoned of ill power...like Stilts....It's hard to say where this is going to go, but to say that "the past story' isn't related to the current story, surly defeats the point in showing us so!
To me the only logical way to look at the show is Storybrooke is all that exists right now. Therefore, Storybrooke and its residents are who they have been cursed to be. Their past lives may never return.
To put more weight on a life that they might never go back to is illogical to me. The only way that their fairy tale lives or memories would ever return is if the curse is broken.
They have aspects of their past lives in the Enchanted Forest to be sure, but there is no guarantee they will ever return to the Forest or those specific lives EVEN IF the curse is lifted.
So to give less weight to their current circumstances in nonsensical to me.
If you ignore the "reality" of Storybrooke then you invalidate half the series and are basically saying nothing that happens in the here and now world on the show matters. It all matters, both worlds shape the characters and both world affect them.
That said, All that is moot in this debate anyway. David is married to Kathryn (based on fake feelings or not) and to pursue someone outside of the marriage and lie to Katyhryn is still wrong. Period.
It does not matter that he had feelings for Snow in a past life or has feelings for Mary Margaret now. He is with Kathryn now. If he doesn't want to be he should leave her first and then move on to the next woman. He can be true to himself and pursue MM after he tells Kathryn and/or divorces her.
People should be true to themselves, but they should not think that their personal feelings allow them to do any action without considering the consequences.
I'm not against "adultery" in media, it makes for great drama, but it is what it is.
Not bad. - The scene with Rumple and Snow on the dock was good. - I'm glad they found some use for Red this week. - I'm looking forward to when the show follows up on that "I helped you when no one else would" remark. - I'm assuming the woman that Grumpy lost will be Amy Acker's character. - Mary and David aren't really good at the whole discretion thing. Public makeout session? Smooth. Also, feelings be damned, he's still married. That's not cool.
Is the traveler the author or is he more of a chaos factor who can affect both the past and present stories with his typewriter? I am intrigued by that....
I'm sort of on the other side of that coin, because I think even if they remember, it's only part of whom they are...I think it even goes beyond the memory of themselves, that I think the memory is just the first step of change...
But on another note, since the Regina still is able to use magic here (the heart chamber has also incarnated itself), we don't know if 'dead is dead' either (In fairy tale land it's appearant that souls can take over the bodies of other souls like with the dark man and Stilts), or if Death can cause one to return to land from which they came...and/or in any sense transform someone to another state of being with in or with out any given realities.
But I agree that Charming has a choice to make, but it relies on whom this Charming really is...and if he can be better than his former self(selves)...but part of the curse is to put these characters in a state of limbo---someone has to help push them forward to make them aware, to make them make the right decisions.
I agree especially with the next episode and them continuing their "secret rendezvous" and what not. I love these two and it made me feel sad that the writers didn't have them reunite in the right way (as in them not socially cheating. I understand that they are married/soulmates in the fairy tale world but neither of them have memories of that so in their case/state of mind, they are pursuing this knowing that David is married and committed to another woman).
Yeah, I think it's really important to realize that they have NO idea who they are in the real world.. they may have been on their way to a happy ending in the fairy tale realm, but in reality, there are more people involved, who ALSO don't know anything more than what they've lived, and they can be hurt. Boo. I don't like Kathryn, but she doesn't deserve to be cheated on.. she doesn't know any better, she's just trying to reunite with the man she knows as her husband.
Loooooved it! As always! And I really ejoy the Snow/MaryM stories the most :) I like when snow is wild and has to fend for herself and the dwarfs were very cool.
I just noticed a plot hole. James was ready and willing to forget the deal he made with the king and run away with Snow White but what about his mother? Didn't the king threaten to hurt his mother or do something to the farm (I can't remember which) if James didn't go through with the marriage with Abigail in the Shepherd episode? Did he just forget or didn't care?
Ginny and Josh are rumoured to be together in real life. She broke up with her boyfriend last summer and he announced he was separated from his wife in December. They've been spotted together in Vancouver (someone saw them kissing, I thinkg) and on vacation together in Orland.
btw guys im guessing the stranger guy is a Grimm. A writer, dark shady, can go to storybrooke, makes sense!! He is a Grimm! And if it is true he's likely to have a brother.
I was expecting more scenes with Red Riding Hood to be honest... I would love to see more about her story. At least we got that Snow helped her... But the epi was great, well... not to the shippers cause we all got tears streaming down out face and our hearts going wild xD
I think maybe they're just introducing Red to us now. They totally set up a more complicated backstory for Snow and Red so we know it has to be coming.
I know, I feel conflicted about the whole thing too. I think "our real world" is their fairy tale land. Think about it, they are getting their happy endings here. Hansel and Gretel were separated from their dad in fairy tale land (and that was before Regina even completed/started the cursed) but they were reunited in the real world. I think Regina's plan was always doomed to fail no matter what (maybe it was all a ruse by Rumpy to get her to be the new dark one so he rest in peace, he was piecing a huge puzzle together all along from the deal with Prince Charming to Cinderella's baby, to Snow White forgetting, he has had a hand in everything).
Well, Darque, it's good to see you are finally on board and apparently invested. I'm not sure how to feel. The writers are sending mixed messages. I am in total Lost mode, where I am positive every little thing means something. If I take everything at face value then I totally hate MMB and David. But if I peel back the layers I get where it's coming from. The whole past lives thing is complicated. The feelings are there they just don't know why or how to go about dealing with it (obviously cheating, especially in public is the WRONG way). But Kathryn is gone ( I guess this is her catalyst for her leaving him).
- Poor Snow and Charming really; and I must confess that I felt a bit disappointed that Snow took the potion.
- The stranger carries around a box with a typewriter; one can assume that it must be some kind of magical object because I believe laptops are lighter and they do the trick... Could he be the writer of the fairy tale book? Could he continue to add things to it?...
- That hand holding of Emma and Mary in that final was squee worthy moment for me, I must say ;-).
- And from observation alone, Emma always eats cereal for breakfast unless Mary Margaret cooks, lol!
LOL! Nope! I was thinking more about evil spells that can be specifically target because the spell caster has your DNA. Or! Oh! Rumpy could make a Leviaclone and make her run all over the land doing evil. :-D
This show gets better with every episode. I love that we see bits and pieces of the fairy tale world stories out of order. It lets us put the puzzle together as the season goes on.
I love this show and I never miss a episode! But I have to admit it was the first episode I didn't really love.
I want Snow and James to be together, but MM and David don't remember their real lives. Their current world is real to them and so them being together while he's married to Kathryn isn't sitting right with me.
I want Emma and Henry to share more scenes. :D Their scenes and mission cobra are some of my favorite things about the show.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
I continue to love everything about this show.
ReplyDelete<3 it
ReplyDeleteFinally!!! Yay!! Snow White and Prince Charming!!
ReplyDeleteNot the best but still entertaining!
ReplyDeleteI just love this show!
ReplyDeleteso many different emotions..
ReplyDeleteI was really disappointed in Mary Margaret and David at the end. If he's not going to leave his wife, publicly cheating on her is a really horrible thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI was rooting for you, David.
Cried at the end when Mary Margaret and David kissed heck I was crying a lot during the episode but I totally lost it then.
ReplyDeleteI don't know b/c the weather in JACKED up in South Arkansas so the weather was broadcasting the ENTIRE FREAKING TIME! UGH
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely the best show on television right now and definitely the most romantic. Ginnifer and Josh are unbelieveable together.
ReplyDeleteTechnically though... he's cheating one his wife with his real wife...so... I don't know i get where you're coming from though but this life isn't real. Not for them anyway.
ReplyDeleteBy that logic nobody should feel anything for the show or have been upset that David chose Kathryn in the first place because that life isn't real. Except the things that they feel ARE real. Someone is going to get hurt in Storybrooke and it doesn't matter that they don't belong there, the emotional pain is still real.
ReplyDeleteAs far as they're concerned, this is real. Which means that both of them are okay with humiliating another person publicly.
Eion Bailey is hot
ReplyDeleteKathryn deserves better than David. Seriously, ten seconds after he tells her he's willing to work on their marriage he is off kissing another woman. What an ass.
ReplyDeleteI like Snow/Charming, but I am rooting against Mary/David.They are just too unlikable.
And the Stranger is totally a shapeshifter. #Fringe
ReplyDeleteBEST SHOW EVER
ReplyDeleteSnow and Charming are the most romantic couple on TV
And guys, come on, Kat IS NOT HIS WIFE¡¡¡ He is fighting with his fake memories and his real feeling for Mary¡¡¡
<3
ReplyDeleteI HATE Charming's fake dad. So much! ><
an ok episode. i like charming and snow episodes but this one wasnt u know like unexpected or anything. it was alright, good to see rumple even if its only 1 scene in all, red riding hood was interesting because we never really saw her before and grumpy of the dwarves was good. no idea about the stranger.
ReplyDeleteReally enjoying the storytelling. Slow but moves along nicely each week!
ReplyDeleteLove the ep, and the giant "Apollo" candy bar (Lost ref) to boot....
ReplyDeleteStealthy the Dwarf! And why we've never heard of him.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone ever asks if this show is a soap opera...point them at this episode. It had quite a few of the comforting soap opera cliches. The I'm dumping you for your own good scene. The several 'we can't do this' near kiss scenes. And the forbidden kiss shared in public so that the betrayed spouse's best friend can witness it. Oh, and I almost forgot...he chose his soulmate over his fiance but too late scene. (of course in this case she didn't marry someone else she drank a forget potion) LOL. I love it.
The stranger in town sub plot fell flat for me. This guy is supposed to be Emma's love interest? Cause they had no umphf on screen. (As an aside...Dear costume director..lose that hat Emma was wearing. Unless the laugh was intended.) And the typewriter...really it just played for me as so impractical as to kick me out of the story and get me trying to figure out why the heck the guy didn't have a laptop. (And the whole romantic notion argument *might* work on me if the guy was in a car.)
Great episode.
ReplyDeleteI loved it, but how will snow reverse the spell. so many twists. It is hard to root for a cheating spouse except they are really married and he has been cheating with kathryn. oh my head.
ReplyDeleteWoah! That makes so much sense! Damn, I hope its not one of the newer shapeshifters cause that'll cause some trouble.
ReplyDeleteGood episode, kinda dumb they did that in public though and it sucks that she did end up taking the potion in the Fairy Tale World. Curious how that'll all work out.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I see that it Alan Dale gets to continue channeling his inner-Widmore.
Okay this is getting out of hands. I have a message for all of those people who are going a little overboard about the infidelity.
ReplyDeleteYou people just don't seem to realize that you are imposing real relationship taboos on a very fake relationship. David's feelings for Kathryn ARE. NOT. REAL. They were created. The feelings weren't created, the memories of having those feelings were. Because he thinks he used to have them, he believes he stills haves them, but since they're NOT REAL he doesn't.
If Kathryn had genuine love for David then your hatred of the affair would be justified, but she doesn't! Her feelings aren't real either! Whether or not they know they're not real is completely irrelevant. He thinks he should be in love with Kathryn, but his feelings tell him he's in love with Mary. Considering that his memories of her are fake, why are you judging him? Or Mary?
You're entitled to your opinions, but I have to say that it doesn't make any sense at all to call something an affair when the entire relationship is in direct opposition to the definition of infidelity.
Excellent ep.
ReplyDeletePERFECT
ReplyDeleteCompletely disagree.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, if the curse is never lifted the residents of Storybrooke will never know their old lives. So everything they do in their current incarnations is all that matters while in those incarnations.
Second, even if the "true self" of all the Storybrooke residents is their Enchanted Forest self, there is no guarantee that once the curse is lifted they return to their old lives. They may just remember everything and continue in Storybrooke. So everything that happens in Storybrooke is real and very much matters.
Third, who David (or James) loves is irrelevant to the point, regardless of whether or not they are real feelings or planted memories. His actions however are very relevant to the point. It's okay to not love Kathryn, to love Mary Margaret, or to get separated or divorced. It is not okay to be married to Kathryn and lie to her and be with someone else.... It is not about what he feels for a given person, it's about what he does with that given person. True feelings do not excuse bad behavior. Period.
Last, each resident of Storybrooke lives their current life as if no other life ever existed because they do not know it did. Both worlds matter. The feelings of each Storybrooke resident are VERY real to them. I do not see how you can ignore the reality of their current lives since it is the only life they know and have any control over. If they kill someone or die in Storybrooke it matters. So why should it NOT matter if they betray their spouses or friends? The answer is of course it does matter.
:) loving it!
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Just because there are two worlds doesn't mean what happens in Storybrooke doesn't matter. The feelings matter. People genuinely get hurt.
ReplyDeleteI didn't comment on last weeks, but I wanted to say those child actors from FRINGE's "Subject 13" did a superb job again! --I think the young actress who played Gretel actually looks more like Jennifer Morris (Emma), then Anna Torv (Olivia) and think that Hansel and Gretel might be more than just reflective to Emma's and Storybrook's situation, as I think some people may embody more than one incarnate. (Like how Stilts became more like the man he killed for power...it was like his essence was taken over by the other and bodies are just vessels...)
ReplyDeleteThis weeks episode was delightfully fun! SO MANY LOST Riffs! --Can we say LeFluer Lamour and Par Avon!?! :w00t: Not mention saving those chasing after [Strikethrough]white rabbits[/Strikethrough] pigeon flocks only to slip of an edge and be saved by someone rather important to you! Alan Dale's character continues to be heartless as ever! -Familiarly dividing love!
I still don't know whom a man with an old type writer would be in terms of fairy tale characters, but I liked how the episode basically kind of makes fun of 'the mystery box' concept, but yet kept the viewer eager about it. I almost expected Amanda Foreman to appear! (In Felicity her character Megan was a Wiccan who had this box and we never learn what's in it. This leads Felicity at some point to dream about it, that extends as a twilight zone-like episode, in which Felicity is offered a CRAZY way to cure her broken heart...!)
The typewriter is curious though since it's become an iconic prop on FRINGE, but also that the building that Bad Robot resides in, is disquised as "The National Type Writer Co." :lol:
The only think that I can think of is that maybe THIS strange writer can RE-WRITE the pages of the story, and/or add new stories on! :hmm:
In every scene Dallas and Goodwin share together I have the strong suspicion that Dallas himself has a huge crush on Goodwin. Don't know if she has a husband or boyfriend, but if she does he better watch out...
ReplyDeleteA few words on the episode: There were as usual those moments that involuntarily made me laugh. This time more than in the last few episodes that have been a bit better. But I've made my peace with some of the terrible dialogues and the often questionable motives and actions of the characters until maybe one day it gets too much for me.
I couldn't stop laughing when Snow White asked Rumpelstiltskin what he needed with her hair, and he said "What do you need of it now, it's been plucked from your head!" Robert Carlyle never ceases to amaze me!
ReplyDeleteYeah, as much as I like Snow and Charming, they really went about it the wrong way with Mary Margaret and David. I wanted them to be together, but I didn't want them to be cheaters to do it.
ReplyDeleteNot a bad episode. A little schmaltzy in my opinion but not bad at all. To those that seem to be having difficulty with the morals of Charming "cheating" on his wife. Umm... SO WHAT!? We're talking about true love here. Love is "the most powerful magic". It's messy. It's damaging. People will get hurt. So Kathryn gets hurt. OK...SO WHAT!? Story telling is supposed to be dramatic. You're supposed to care for these characters even when they do things that you might not fully agree with. It's what makes them three dimensional. If Charming and Snow are meant to be together then they will need to deal with any consequences of their actions. That's what story telling is about. Get over it people and let the writers do their thing. About Charming and Snow kissing. Am I wrong here? I thought the curse was supposed to be broken with True Love's Kiss. Why didn't anything happen? ...... Couple of final thoughts: "Stealthy" the dwarf? REALLY?!? Why not "Sneeky" That sounds a little bit more story time than the modern sounding stealthy......Mr. Mysterious with his typewriter: Seems to me that he is the most powerful character in the whole show. He's the "story teller" The typewriter can probably alter reality to whatever he types.
ReplyDeleteif there was an "other" I would have put AMAZING!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you also..
ReplyDeleteFirst we also have this issue that there 'were' two Charmings, and seemingly in Storybrook, there is one who seems to be struggling with his identity, this reflects not only the old charming, but the plot with the twin-ish brother...because the two of them wanted to be with two different people, two different purposes, but one is temp. forced to pretend to be someone he's not. Not only in the now has he lied to Kathryn, but in Story Brooke he lies to Snow (we have yet to see if he ever tells the truth about whom he was), but simultamously, Snow lied to him about how she felt and so ALL of the Fairy-tale characters are guilty of deception to some degree (some more than others, all but the children--who reflect the future), that are all also guilty of using magic to help themselves and this was alluded a few episodes back to be mostly a bad thing, thus this why the curse has manifested this way.
Second, even though the characters are cursed, which Story Brooke is the result of, we don't really know what that means in conjunction to other magical objects or other curses/hexes/spells, in addition there seems to be more than one villain, and the idea of someone like Emma plays into the idea of being able to "extend" everyone's story...which is also why I think this man with they Type WRITER is important, because it plays into either "re-writing/re-righting" the wrongs of the curse, and or being able to write additional stories...It's possible that all magic has it's limits and it's could be a battle of them, or not using them, that matters more.
great episode
ReplyDeleteI love this show and I am only half way through this episode, but its terrible this week... I mean seriously terrible.
ReplyDeleteAnother great episode! I'm surprised they kissed at the end, I thought that would happen towards the season finale.
ReplyDeleteI like the new take on the fact there were 8 dwarves! As soon as they mentioned Stealthy, me and my friend looked confusedly at one another and then I realised he would die haha.
The White Rabbit going-over-the-cliff made me laugh. How very LOST indeed!
YAAAAY for Apollo bars and mention of 'whispers'
I still have to disagree. For some reason you're choosing to separate their two lives. Personally, I don't know how you think that's logical.
ReplyDeleteThese aren't different people. David is A LOT like Prince Charming and Mary is A LOT like Snow White. Their fake memories haven't changed their personalities or who they are. You're putting waaaay too much stock into how much memories effect feelings.
Even though Kathryn's memories are fake, do you really think she's fundamentally a different person? Did we all suddenly forget how she was in the other world? You're choosing not to combine the two, as if they're different people, but they're not.
So far, everyone we've met who had their memories changed shared a lot of characteristics with their other personality. New memories changed their past experiences, it in no way changed who they are.
There is a connection between their old lives and their Storybrooke lives, and it's not their memories it's the people themselves. Our memories do not define who we are.
Not a single one of these characters are actually different people. As to be a matter of fact, the more their feelings seem to get involved the more they become like their old selves. Do you remember how Graham got his memories back? We saw his life in the fairytale world, was he really any different from the other character with his memories changed?
Don't get me wrong, I see your point, I just think you're using a little too much logic to explain an opinion that involves magic and a fairytale world that you're choosing to ignore to support your point of view. They don't know about the other world, that doesn't mean the people they were in that other world doesn't influence the kind of people they are now. You can't separate the two. :)
Its almost unwatchable in fact. How can a show that I have been really interested in for the previous however many weeks, be so bad this week. Ok I got the hint from the Jiminy Cricket episode that it could be crap but wow, this one beats that one in regards to rubbishness by a mile.
ReplyDeleteBecause there were two of him...there was the man who was the good shepherd, and the original prince...then the prince dies, and the sheppherd is forced/blackmailed to take his place and slay the dragon in order to continue to save his mother and the farm...The fact that there are NOT two now plays into that idea of "whom somebody really is"
ReplyDeleteAdditionally this idea spans further because Stilts was once a shepherd too! And so we see him inflict pain, that was once inflicted onto him--
Just because they don't remember about their past lives, doesn't mean that those lives don't matter (there is no point to tell a story this way just to say there is no relationship) and aren't manifesting here, as this is the point of the curse...but the writers are trying to tell us that there is "fate" written underneath (hence Henry and his book), that who these people were do matter, it's "the reason why" some of this is happening/repeating the way it is, but if they want a better life, they're going to have to make changes...
Graham was able to remember, and because of Emma, he was attempting to change...part of lifting the curse seems to be "memory" -Even Snow Whites kiss awakens Charming, which when last we saw him he was slain, but also plays on a role reversal of Snow White kissing her "asleep" lover instead of the other way around.
Another aspect though is that there are BIGGER fish soley responsible for putting many characters (in the past and present) in 'do or die' situations, which led these characters to make decisions that they wouldn't of had to otherwise. So in that respect even their deception comes out of love and preservation of family...So I think LOVE is the bigger magic and who knows...The Queen too could be poisoned of ill power...like Stilts....It's hard to say where this is going to go, but to say that "the past story' isn't related to the current story, surly defeats the point in showing us so!
To me the only logical way to look at the show is Storybrooke is all that exists right now. Therefore, Storybrooke and its residents are who they have been cursed to be. Their past lives may never return.
ReplyDeleteTo put more weight on a life that they might never go back to is illogical to me. The only way that their fairy tale lives or memories would ever return is if the curse is broken.
They have aspects of their past lives in the Enchanted Forest to be sure, but there is no guarantee they will ever return to the Forest or those specific lives EVEN IF the curse is lifted.
So to give less weight to their current circumstances in nonsensical to me.
If you ignore the "reality" of Storybrooke then you invalidate half the series and are basically saying nothing that happens in the here and now world on the show matters. It all matters, both worlds shape the characters and both world affect them.
That said, All that is moot in this debate anyway. David is married to Kathryn (based on fake feelings or not) and to pursue someone outside of the marriage and lie to Katyhryn is still wrong. Period.
It does not matter that he had feelings for Snow in a past life or has feelings for Mary Margaret now. He is with Kathryn now. If he doesn't want to be he should leave her first and then move on to the next woman. He can be true to himself and pursue MM after he tells Kathryn and/or divorces her.
People should be true to themselves, but they should not think that their personal feelings allow them to do any action without considering the consequences.
I'm not against "adultery" in media, it makes for great drama, but it is what it is.
The typewriter and the mystery man were the most interesting and well done parts of the episode. The rest was very contrived and cliche.
ReplyDeleteNot bad.
ReplyDelete- The scene with Rumple and Snow on the dock was good.
- I'm glad they found some use for Red this week.
- I'm looking forward to when the show follows up on that "I helped you when no one else would" remark.
- I'm assuming the woman that Grumpy lost will be Amy Acker's character.
- Mary and David aren't really good at the whole discretion thing. Public makeout session? Smooth. Also, feelings be damned, he's still married. That's not cool.
Awesome as always!!
ReplyDeleteLoved that there was loads of Snow/Charming.
Is the traveler the author or is he more of a chaos factor who can affect both the past and present stories with his typewriter? I am intrigued by that....
ReplyDeleteIt was touching, sad and brilliant at the same time. Loved it!
ReplyDeleteI agree, I didn´t like this ep. either.
ReplyDeleteI'm sort of on the other side of that coin, because I think even if they remember, it's only part of whom they are...I think it even goes beyond the memory of themselves, that I think the memory is just the first step of change...
ReplyDeleteBut on another note, since the Regina still is able to use magic here (the heart chamber has also incarnated itself), we don't know if 'dead is dead' either (In fairy tale land it's appearant that souls can take over the bodies of other souls like with the dark man and Stilts), or if Death can cause one to return to land from which they came...and/or in any sense transform someone to another state of being with in or with out any given realities.
But I agree that Charming has a choice to make, but it relies on whom this Charming really is...and if he can be better than his former self(selves)...but part of the curse is to put these characters in a state of limbo---someone has to help push them forward to make them aware, to make them make the right decisions.
It was ok. Too much of the dialog I found too cheesy and the frakkin Mayor seems to be at every scene to give an annoyed or angry stare.
ReplyDeleteGood to have one scene with Rumpelstiltskin and I'm intrigued who the writer is...maybe Wilhelm or Jacob Grimm. :D
I agree especially with the next episode and them continuing their "secret rendezvous" and what not. I love these two and it made me feel sad that the writers didn't have them reunite in the right way (as in them not socially cheating. I understand that they are married/soulmates in the fairy tale world but neither of them have memories of that so in their case/state of mind, they are pursuing this knowing that David is married and committed to another woman).
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think it's really important to realize that they have NO idea who they are in the real world.. they may have been on their way to a happy ending in the fairy tale realm, but in reality, there are more people involved, who ALSO don't know anything more than what they've lived, and they can be hurt. Boo. I don't like Kathryn, but she doesn't deserve to be cheated on.. she doesn't know any better, she's just trying to reunite with the man she knows as her husband.
ReplyDeleteLoooooved it! As always! And I really ejoy the Snow/MaryM stories the most :) I like when snow is wild and has to fend for herself and the dwarfs were very cool.
ReplyDeleteI just noticed a plot hole. James was ready and willing to forget the deal he made with the king and run away with Snow White but what about his mother? Didn't the king threaten to hurt his mother or do something to the farm (I can't remember which) if James didn't go through with the marriage with Abigail in the Shepherd episode? Did he just forget or didn't care?
ReplyDeletelove it
ReplyDeleteThis show keeps getting better and better! Can't wait for next week! :D
ReplyDeleteAwesome!!!!!! Loved it!
ReplyDeleteGinny and Josh are rumoured to be together in real life. She broke up with her boyfriend last summer and he announced he was separated from his wife in December. They've been spotted together in Vancouver (someone saw them kissing, I thinkg) and on vacation together in Orland.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that 'The Good Guys' are the ones who make the right decisions and choose not to hurt others just because they can.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he threatened to basically destroy everything Charming loved. Death for his mother, for sure.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'm not sure the writers are that concerned with continuity.
Oh no Snow! why did you drink that?! :(
ReplyDeletebtw guys im guessing the stranger guy is a Grimm. A writer, dark shady, can go to storybrooke, makes sense!! He is a Grimm! And if it is true he's likely to have a brother.
ReplyDeleteI was expecting more scenes with Red Riding Hood to be honest... I would love to see more about her story. At least we got that Snow helped her... But the epi was great, well... not to the shippers cause we all got tears streaming down out face and our hearts going wild xD
ReplyDeleteIt was a good episode....I really liked it....and I noticed that snow white was as shorter as the dwarf....interesting humm...just an observation!!
ReplyDeleteloved it. finally some progress for Mary/David
ReplyDeleteI think maybe they're just introducing Red to us now. They totally set up a more complicated backstory for Snow and Red so we know it has to be coming.
ReplyDeleteKinda cute that Hansel and Gretel were young Peter and Olivia :P #FRINGE
ReplyDeleteI know, I feel conflicted about the whole thing too. I think "our real world" is their fairy tale land. Think about it, they are getting their happy endings here. Hansel and Gretel were separated from their dad in fairy tale land (and that was before Regina even completed/started the cursed) but they were reunited in the real world. I think Regina's plan was always doomed to fail no matter what (maybe it was all a ruse by Rumpy to get her to be the new dark one so he rest in peace, he was piecing a huge puzzle together all along from the deal with Prince Charming to Cinderella's baby, to Snow White forgetting, he has had a hand in everything).
ReplyDeleteI guess they needed to have a way for Kathryn to leave (the actress is on another show, right? So I guess she leaves him).
ReplyDeleteC'mon, that dude only plays bad characters (and he is always effing with true love)
ReplyDeleteStealthy? Really? Dumbest moment EVER!
ReplyDeleteYour not suggesting, Snow is now a Leviaclone, are you? LOL!
ReplyDeleteTrue love's kiss heals everything! Duh!
ReplyDeleteWell, Darque, it's good to see you are finally on board and apparently invested. I'm not sure how to feel. The writers are sending mixed messages. I am in total Lost mode, where I am positive every little thing means something. If I take everything at face value then I totally hate MMB and David. But if I peel back the layers I get where it's coming from. The whole past lives thing is complicated. The feelings are there they just don't know why or how to go about dealing with it (obviously cheating, especially in public is the WRONG way). But Kathryn is gone ( I guess this is her catalyst for her leaving him).
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the new man is the writer oh Henry's book
ReplyDeleteThoughts:
ReplyDelete- Poor Snow and Charming really; and I must confess that I felt a bit disappointed that Snow took the potion.
- The stranger carries around a box with a typewriter; one can assume that it must be some kind of magical object because I believe laptops are lighter and they do the trick... Could he be the writer of the fairy tale book? Could he continue to add things to it?...
- That hand holding of Emma and Mary in that final was squee worthy moment for me, I must say ;-).
- And from observation alone, Emma always eats cereal for breakfast unless Mary Margaret cooks, lol!
LOL! Nope! I was thinking more about evil spells that can be specifically target because the spell caster has your DNA. Or! Oh! Rumpy could make a Leviaclone and make her run all over the land doing evil. :-D
ReplyDelete=')
ReplyDeleteEmma is a kid xD MM needs to take care of her child :P
ReplyDeleteThis show gets better with every episode. I love that we see bits and pieces of the fairy tale world stories out of order. It lets us put the puzzle together as the season goes on.
ReplyDeleteI love this show and I never miss a episode! But I have to admit it was the first episode I didn't really love.
ReplyDeleteI want Snow and James to be together, but MM and David don't remember their real lives. Their current world is real to them and so them being together while he's married to Kathryn isn't sitting right with me.
I want Emma and Henry to share more scenes. :D Their scenes and mission cobra are some of my favorite things about the show.
I like those little details of this whole production ;-)
ReplyDelete