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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Does Fan Reaction Impact the Writing?

26 Jul 2011

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Thought this was interesting for you SPN fans ;)

"Supernatural" fans are amongst the most vocal on Zap2it, so when we had the opportunity to talk to executive producer Sera Gamble and consulting producer Ben Edlund at San Diego Comic-Con, we had to ask them about how fan reactions impact their storytelling process.

"It's hard not to read it," Edlund says of the fans' online rants and raves. "You're in a dialog. It's an amazing thing that the internet gives you this chance of seeing what people think... so we definitely take it in."

He says that just as fans respond to the material, he hopes that the material also responds to the fans. "Like any dialog, we're in that conversation. It gives us an indication of what viewer expectation is and that helps us play tension against viewer expectation. We want to scare people and surprise them and make them worried, so it tells us where the zeitgeist is moving so we can do a counter-move or move along with it."

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27 comments:

  1. Katie122726 July 2011 at 01:21

    Don't want to sound bad, but it depend on how big the impact is before I can say it's bad or good...I mean if I want to see a fiction writing by the fans I'll go read fanfiction. I'm doing it, many are great, but I don't want the show to be like that. Especially that more you try to please a bunch of fans, the more another bunch will go more and more angry

    Just like the Cass situation, you put him in a lot of episodes, the Brosfans will scream they want it to be only about the bros and they'll go scream that the writers never listen to the fans, don't care about them..etc. But if you push him away, another bunch will go said that Cass is just as important as the boy and will scream that the writers never listen to the fans, don't care about them...etc. (And seriously I'm giving an exemple here, don't start a debat/fight over that)

    Both position here and in every single one debats there was and will ever be in the SPN fandom can be defend, can be explain with logic and can lead to many things. But for the main things the writers should stay truth to themself. there's no way you can please everyone, that's why there's so many (if not unlimitable) sort of musics, of games, of movies, of series..etc and no matter what you do, the people who don't agree will let themself know more than the people who agree. Once again I'll repeat it so I won,t get throw tomatos at me...yeah it's good to have people with open mind, who listen to the fans and yeah I loved the ''love letters'' they send, to quote Sera from the preview of Frontierland, but there's always a limit

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  2. donna gafford26 July 2011 at 01:25

    jensen has said on 1 con that i can think of that the writers do listen to what is being said & discussed! there is 1 board that has so much in depth discussion about the "why" & "why not" that it gets crazy personal sometimes! lots of passion for this show, the casy & crew & the writing!!

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  3. I Wuv Hugs26 July 2011 at 01:28

    Well I hope this is true, cause in Season 6 Dean has yet to have any kind of sex or nudity scenes. I'm sure the fans would like....I would like to see the old CASANOVA Dean Winchester again....Please! Other than that can't wait 4 Friday Sept 23rd, Season 7 Ep 1! Woooo Hoooo!:))

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  4. jillyanne26 July 2011 at 01:54

    I like that they have their collective 'finger on the pulse'. But I also wouldn't like to see them trying to appease any particular faction. 

    Ultimately Sera runs the show, and she and the writers need to ensure they keep the show on the road, so catering to any specific group is not going to do the show any good in the long run. So when we get one group campaigning to 'save Castiel' (for example) - when we don't even know what their plans ARE for Castiel yet, and other groups campaigning for Sera's removal as show runner - well I find it all a little embarrassing and a LOT annoying.

    Whether we like a particular story line or not, whether we have a particular character we love more than the others, the writing should be left to those who's job it is. They are all professionals - they don't just show up at the writers room and say 'I know better than you how to write for this show' and so are given a job. 

    I trust Sera implicitly - she's been involved since day one. She knows Supernatural and she knows the characters. 

    I believe episodes such as The French Mistake are a great way to give a shout out to the fandom. Let's just keep it that way, and let them get on with the job.

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  5. chris68426 July 2011 at 02:50

    I'm assuming/hoping that the writers are good enough and confident enough to be able to sort through the feedback and figure out which is useful and which is just people spewing from their own biases and agendas.  Ultimately, the show's writers are much better trained to make a TV show than the fans are, and if the feedback is contrary to their better judgment, they need to go with their gut.  But sometimes feedback can open a person up to a different point of view and improve the end product.

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  6. JosephMcLaddle26 July 2011 at 02:51

    That kind of writing is by far one of the best ways to drive a show into the ground.  How disappointing.

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  7. jillyanne26 July 2011 at 03:27

    I've just re-read what Edlund said - "so it tells us where the zeitgeist is moving so we can do a counter-move or move along with it." 
    To me he's basically saying they look at what people are saying and then do their own thing anyway.

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  8. Dahne26 July 2011 at 04:11

    So basically they look at what fans expect and then do the opposite according to Edlund.  I am so blaming Appoint in Samarra on this.  I just knew they were not going to re-soul Sam before the winter break.  The fact that they did means they were playing with us.  :-P  That's it from now on I'm going to expect the exact opposite of what I am expecting.  Cthulhu is now the Big Bad because I was thinking it would be Cas and now I know I'm wrong.

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  9. Dahne26 July 2011 at 04:19

    Agree 100%.  At this point, there are so many varied twittions in the Supernatural fandom that I want to start a twittion to ban people from complaining in twittions.  It's ridiculous.  If they brought back everyone with a Save..... whoever campaign, everyone would get a 30 second cameo in an episode and none of the plots would make sense.  Quite frankly if they ever tried to write only to please the fans, we would end up with a Supernatural no one liked and people would complain how the show went downhill.  Let the writers and show runners do their job.  They've managed to keep this show my favorite for 6 years now.  I even went through the LamePocalypse relatively unscathed and still interested.  If they can do that, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.  Here's to a riveting season 7 - without fan interference!

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  10. Dahne26 July 2011 at 04:22

    Not sure what you are saying because they essentially said, "We hear your complaints, but we're doing our own thing."  I think that's a great philosophy for writers.  They certainly have a better grasp on storytelling than a bunch of factions with opposite opinions.

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  11. pinkphoenix198526 July 2011 at 06:08

    Interesting!

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  12. prpleight26 July 2011 at 08:17

    I think it can be dangerous to pay to much attention to the viewers posting on the internet.  Several of you have expressed the same opinion more eloquently than I, but I did want to mention an recent example.  Lost.  As much as I loved that show it sometimes felt like a couple of the least successful stories on that show were because the showrunners were trying to answer the fans.  One example being the "Tailies" episodes.  For many, (my mother included) it too screen time from many of the characters we'd spent ea season getting to know, and focused it on a group of new characters.  I watched those eps and couldn't help but think that if they'd stayed on their course and not attempted to appease a, relatively, small group of fans the should might not have seen the ratings drop it did during that time.

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  13. Hosea Draco Douglas26 July 2011 at 08:20

    I am with you and jillyanne on this 100%.
    Bring on season seven!

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  14. isleofskye26 July 2011 at 09:28

     I think that the writers, going by what they said, do inform themselves on what the fans say,  but I would hope that they will NEVER, ever, act on their suggestions.

    I mean I am a fan, and obviously I have my preferences, but I would never dream of saying, for example something like:-
    "If you don't bring back Ruby and let her and Sam  have a family and send Dean off to hunt on his own with Bobby; I will never watch the show again!! "

     I'm obviously suggesting something outlandish as an example,  but this is the way some of the ideas I have read on internet come over!

     You cannot content everyone,so it's better that the writers go their own way.

    Supernatural has managed seven seasons up till now, so the writers must be doing something right.

    On this site it has been voted the best show on television, which is very hard to do when you only have one vote at your disposal, so it has all the potential to continue beyond S7.

     Ultimately it's up to you guys in the USA to watch the show and get it good ratings, so as to save the show for all of us who live abroad and cannot contribute to the Nielsen numbers. regards

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  15. yavemiel26 July 2011 at 10:00

    I think that the writers definitely listen to the fans up to a certain point. For example, look at what happened with Jo and Dean in Season 2: they were supposed to be involved romantically, but there was such an outcry from the fans that they backpedaled (though I don't know how much of that was the writers and how much was network execs).

    Having said that, I think for the most part that they read fan reaction, and while they acknowledge what we have to say, they stick to their guns in terms of where they're going with the story, which is the way it should be. Without that, we would almost definitely not have gotten the brilliant season 6 finale, Dean actually going to hell, Sam actually going to hell, plus a whole host of other brave writing decisions that have ultimately benefited the show.

    Finally, if you want to see a comment that pretty much sums up how I feel about this issue, go and read jillyanne's comment down the bottom of the page (or up the top depending on how you view your comments. :), as she sums up pretty much everything I would want to say, but much more eloquently than I could.

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  16. JosephMcLaddle26 July 2011 at 10:03

    I know saying anything negative about Supernatural is always the worst thing, but what I said is true.  Changing anything about your story, and I don't care how small, due to reaction is a total corruption of your storytelling legitimacy. 

    The statement "we hear your complaints but we're ignoring that" is bullshit.  They'll still have it in mind, no matter how much they want to say they don't.  They've heard it and it will influence them.  It compromises any sort of "original vision."

    I don't care to be pandered to.

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  17. yavemiel26 July 2011 at 10:16

    In that case, I would imagine every show on TV has 'that kind of writing'. Whether we like it or not, this is an age of communication. The internet has made it so that even the lowliest of fans like myself can possibly have my complaints heard by the writers of my favourite TV show. I can't imagine that there is a single writing team out there that doesn't have at least one writer who reads fan reaction and/or interacts with the fans, and I suspect most teams have more than one. If what you say is true, and they will have this fan opinion in mind no matter what, then almost every show on TV is driven by fan opinion, and therefore 'being driven into the ground.'

    Furthermore, I'm not sure it is entirely a bad thing to have fan opinion in mind when writing. I do agree with you up to a point: pandering completely to the fans is the best way to drive a show into the ground, however I also think that completely ignoring their opinions is stupidity of the worst kind, because TV is a give and take relationship. The writers write for their viewers as much as for themselves and the characters. If they completely ignore the people their writing for, all that will happen is that people will stop watching, and the show will get cancelled, and their storytelling integrity will do them very little good if they are sitting at home with no one to write for.

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  18. JosephMcLaddle26 July 2011 at 10:28

    It's a difficult issue.  I have nothing against having a knowing "pulse" on the fanbase.  I think that's what led the LOST writers to write Nikki and Paulo's death before they ever even appeared on television. 

    But it's another another thing to write episode to episode based on fan reactions, which I think this article is suggesting.  Just look at Glee.  The second season was all over the place and bogged down with guest stars and themed episodes because that's what the fans seemed to want.  (For the record, I didn't like either season, it's just a perfect example.) 

    Having a meat thermometer in the fans reactions is one thing, but writing stories to please them is suicide.

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  19. yavemiel26 July 2011 at 10:40

    I've never actually watched LOST, so I can't really comment, but I agree with you about Glee (I actually didn't mind the first season *cringes*, but I stopped watching two episodes into the second). I also agree about the 'meat thermometer' (which is an awesome phrase by the way, I'm going to steal it), but that's what confuses me so much about your first comment up the top of this thread: I read Ben Edlund's comment as saying that while they keep an eye on fan reaction, they don't allow it to impact the direction in which they take the stories, which is what I thought your original complaint was. Sorry about the phrasing, I tend to get twisted up in my own sentences.

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  20. Paula R. Stiles26 July 2011 at 11:56

    I seriously doubt that they take fan reaction into account much, if at all, at least while episodes are running. If you read behind-the-scenes stuff like the season companions and the magazine, you find that they do what they want to and if it's unpopular, too bad. Both Ruby and Bela were very unpopular during season three, but if you read the season companion for that year, the writers are all hearts and flowers about Ruby and snakes and toads about Bela (because they intended to introduce Ruby all along, but they resented the network "pushing" them to bring in Bela, too). Similarly, in the season two companion, Kripke admits that he'd already decided Jo wasn't working before fans even saw her episodes. I think what the writers like to do is blame fan influence for getting rid of certain characters and situations that they didn't want to keep around, anyway. Also, as much as I loved the more experimental stuff like "Monster Movie", I'm skeptical about how many fans demand that kind of thing before the writers serve it up.

    Plus, they are usually so many episodes ahead by the time one airs, that it would be hard for them to turn a sinking plot ship around within a season (or half-season), anyway. They'll probably be filming around episode six or eight (and blocking out a few episodes ahead of that) by the time the season starts, which means they'll be nearly halfway through plotting a season before they get our reaction to the season premiere.

    I do think that showrunners need to pay attention to audience reaction (from all sides) if they want to have long series. This is not their personal fanfic. It's a job for them (a well-paid one, too), and a huge investment for their network and studio, so learning from fan reactions to the previous season and fixing things the audience hated is very important. Sadly, too many showrunners on TV seem to get stuck in the idea that their show is, indeed, their personal fanfic and lose touch with their audience. And ratings plummet and bye-bye goes their show.

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  21. Laverne McGee26 July 2011 at 12:18

    Supernatural has pandered to the loud twenty percent of the fans for the last 2 years. They teased the slash fans, fooled them into thinking that Dean and Castiel were actually going to have sex on screen with dialogue like "Cass, get outta my ass." I'm surprised people fell for that. The CW wants advertising dollars, not controversy. While the show listened and pandered to the loud 20%, a large segment of the silent majority, the 80%, voted with their remotes and ditched the show. Over half a million viewers have left so far. That season finale was one of the lowest rated ever. Castiel is being written out, and I'm glad to see it. Supernatural is about the brothers. It's about Sam and Dean Winchester, not Castiel and his two pet boys. It's about time we got back to the Winchester family business of "saving people, hunting things."
     Think about all the times SPN has changed direction due to fan reaction. Fans didn't want to see any females around the brothers. Then no female was good enough. Loud fangirls shrieked like banshees when the Roadhouse was introduced. There was nothing wrong with that. SPN certainly could have worked as an ensemble cast, but no, the show listened to the complaints. Even tho is this a fantasy show, it's unrealistic to think that the Winchester brothers are isolated in their own little world. That's bad writing, and for the last two years SPN has had a lot of that. 

    I have to admit I've never seen a show pander to certain fans the way SPN does. Joss Whedon didn't do that with Buffy. He told the story and we fans rolled with it. Maybe Kripke and Co pander because they feel insecure, because of the ratings. 

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  22. isleofskye26 July 2011 at 13:32

     One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say.

     Just to say that each of us has their own point of view on things, some things you have written I agree with others no, which is as it should be.

    I saw all 5 seasons together on dvd a few months ago and so I had never seen it on tv before that.
    I don't know if it changed direction because of fan pressure or not.

    I know I just loved the whole five seasons and the fact of the fandom never crossed my mind as I knew nothing about it at the time.
    .
    I don't think the show really panders to any one, it just throws in some, at times, stupid puns or jokes but no more or no less than other shows do.

     I think you have to look at the overall result and not at little bits of dialogue taken ftrom the scripts.


    I do agree about the fact that Castiel  and the heaven theme has outstayed its welcome. His story- arc is old and tired and it should go out as Azazel's and others have.

    I am also in complete agreement that the story is about Sam and Dean and of how they navigate their world, and the other characters should be in the show to enhance the boys' adventures        ( whether they be women or men! )

    I don't know about J D Morgan but I'm sure if he wanted to come back he would, regardless.

    As for the finale, to me it seemed strange that that the Neilsen numbers went down that night but maybe it was just due to the fact that it was a beautiful evening and everyone was out in the garden and  so recorded the episode on DVD!!!!    

    I have never seen Buffy so I can't comment other than to say I'm not a great fan of shows where there is a female heroine perhaps because I, myself, am a female. regards

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  23. tvmonkey26 July 2011 at 13:40

    Get what you are saying I dont want to be pandered to then again I dont want to be ignored either. I've always thought SPN writers were very good at picking up on what works and what doesnt quite quickly and making the necessary changes. I have never had a problem with the way the show has been written untill season 6 when all the writers seemed to be doing was pandering to certain factions of the fandom. Sam girls got a shirtless Sam and Sam having more sex, Dean girls got Dean connecting with kids and having a family of his own outside of Sam and Destiel fans got a lot of references to gay sex between the ones they shipped. Season 6 for me couldnt balance the story the writers were trying to tell with what the fans wanted. At times it read like fanfiction.

    I know Sera Gamble is a fan of TWOP but nayone who has ever been on there will know she quite clearly doesnt listen to what is being said by those fans, in fact I've seen examples of where she has aparently done the oposite so I guess she does listen she just doesnt care to pander to those views.

    Ben Edlund and Kripke always struck me as not giving a shit what fans wanted most of the time.

    The writers ultimately appear to be doing what they want and only listening to fans when they happen top agree with them or when it appears fans and critics alike are not pleased.

    I would say 8/10 the writers get it right with or without a little help from the fans.

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  24. nellymemdez27 July 2011 at 14:19

    follow fans reation is not so bad give them ideas to create some storylines in the last comic-con one persons sugest usin sign language why they can present a deaf character no matter if good or bad seen how other people interacts with will be fantastic how that big comunity expres there opinion about that episode

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  25. D Mentis27 July 2011 at 19:16

    I like that they think about fan reaction but that's a very fine line to walk.

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  26. JosephMcLaddle28 July 2011 at 10:10

    I think there's a difference.  One approach is the "meat thermometer" one; you're aware of the general temperature of fan reaction to your show, the other is where you cut up your steak into tiny pieces and examine each and every tiny piece.  The former approach gives you an overall idea of what fans like and helps you craft your overall story, while the latter bogs you down in the details and starts doing the writing for you.

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  27. Michael2 August 2011 at 07:28

    cant wait

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