FULL ARSENAL | Guggenheim admits that one of Season 2′s shortcomings was the incorporation of Roy into Team Arrow, stop-and-start and scattershot as it was due to the Mirakuru mess. So going into the fall, “I’d love to see us stick the landing a bit better” with regards to Roy’s role among our heroes. “This year you really feel like he is a part of Team Arrow, in a very integral way.” That includes suiting Roy up (EW has a fun first look at Arsenal) as well as “exploring the repercussions” of his Mirakru’d rampage. “He went through this major trauma, and we always said that was necessary for him to become a hero,” the EP reminds. “But this is the year we get to play with all of that.”
BACK WITH A BANG | Seeing as Episode 2 is titled “Sara,” it should come as no surprise that Caity Lotz’s Arrow days are not over just yet. And she still has some bon mots left in her quiver. “Her first line [upon returning] is one of my favorites…. She says something amazing. It’s like a movie trailer line,” Guggenheim effuses. “In fact, it may end up in a commercial or something.”
OH, BABY! | When last we tuned in, amidst so, so much mayhem and destruction, Diggle learned that he’s going to be a daddy. “Diggle has some major storylines coming up — the biggest obviously being Lilah is pregnant,” Guggenheim notes. Specifically, the EP singles out Episode 3 as “very Diggle-oriented” (though perhaps not to the same degree as “Keep Your Enemies Closer” or “Suicide Squad”).
BACK WITH A BANG | Seeing as Episode 2 is titled “Sara,” it should come as no surprise that Caity Lotz’s Arrow days are not over just yet. And she still has some bon mots left in her quiver. “Her first line [upon returning] is one of my favorites…. She says something amazing. It’s like a movie trailer line,” Guggenheim effuses. “In fact, it may end up in a commercial or something.”
OH, BABY! | When last we tuned in, amidst so, so much mayhem and destruction, Diggle learned that he’s going to be a daddy. “Diggle has some major storylines coming up — the biggest obviously being Lilah is pregnant,” Guggenheim notes. Specifically, the EP singles out Episode 3 as “very Diggle-oriented” (though perhaps not to the same degree as “Keep Your Enemies Closer” or “Suicide Squad”).
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I'm glad Guggenheim acknowledged that Roy's storyline had its fair share of problems. I'm hoping they'll do better this season and apply what they learned to whatever they've got going on with Thea in season three.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for Sara's comeback and how it will affect Laurel.
ReplyDeleteHopefully Roy can develop his own patern, be a little more independent as the story goes.
But what will bring Thea back t town.
It's great that they admit some of the mistakes they did last season. It's rare to show runners willing to admit mistakes and trying to work on the show's short coming. Show runners usually defend every storyline no matter how crappy it is.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait for the Felicty/Laurel scene. I don't care about the ships so for me it would be nice if we get a female friendship.
I love that we are getting another Diggle episode. Last season his episode was one of my favorites.
Finally something about Thea! Her storyline seems interesting and I wonder why they are being so secretive about it.
Felicity/Laurel = shades of Babs and Dinah kind of. Also Roy and Felicity should be good.
ReplyDeleteGreat, one of the few things Lauren hasn't ruined yet will be ruined with her presence in Team Arrow. The last thing I wanted. Just awesome....
ReplyDeleteRight there with you. Hopefully they won't overdo it. But they probably will.
ReplyDeleteOmg!! Seeing Roy's picture! NOW reading this article, i am sooo stoked!! Can't wait for Roy and the Diggle centric episode!! And they spelled her name wrong!! It's LYLA!!
ReplyDeleteSeason three is really starting to take shape !!!
ReplyDeleteOk. This is what I like about Arrow EPs. They admit their flaws. They had trouble with both Laurel and Roy storyline last season and they are trying to overcome it. I am excited about Roy's arc this season. Diggle heavy episode is always welcome.
ReplyDeleteI dislike Laurel till now but maybe may....be... I might like her this season if they are careful with her character. I am glad they are not rushing into making her a masked hero. Not sure how to feel about her presence in the Arrow cave. I will reserve judgement until I watch the episode. Keep her romantically far far away from Oliver please. Oliver kind of sucks away any awesomeness she has with all their history.
I wasn't aware you'd seen anything to back these claims, have you? And who is this Lauren? I thought her name was LAUREL.
ReplyDeleteRoy's storyline isn't the only one that suffered in S2, I really hope S3 has a better balance of the characters and storylines. But what I've been hearing so far sounds very promising.
ReplyDeleteI was a bit worried about S3, tbh. I was (vocally)not a fan of the second half of S2 after the excellent first half. This makes me feel much more optimistic about S3 and beyond.
ReplyDeleteSomething I had a big problem with was the finale. I didn't feel like any of the stories were resolved in satisfying ways. The way Sara left had me scratching my head for a while after the episode ended.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you. Every character except Oliver and Papa Lance suffered last season. Season 2 on the whole was incredibly fun and entertaining to watch. But Thea, Roy, Laurel, Slade, Moira, even Sara and Felicity suffered due to half cooked writing. I hope they do a better job this season. They can improve the quality of this show so much by concentrating on these charachter's development.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry some people will always hate Laurel no matter what she does or doesn't do. Also instead of seeing Felicity/Laurel as a possible interesting dynamic and maybe the beginning of a female friendship people will see it as competition and something related to their ships. I'm so glad I don't ship anyone in this show. Peopel get too worked up over the littlest things.
ReplyDeleteAs a Felicity fan (and I dislike Laurel with a passion) I am offended by this comment. Whe have they ever used Felicity to prop Laurel? They had just 4 scenes together all impersonal. Infact her dismissal of Felicity and Diggle in the episode 22 of last season made some people dislike her more. We don't know what is going to happen. Maybe it will be a fun scene maybe it will look forced. Let's wait and watch before condemning something.
ReplyDeleteYou and me both. I mentioned after the finale that the final scene with her family at the docks was really messed up. Sara made a deal to leave with a group of murderers, one of whom kidnapped her mother, and everyone was smiling and joking like Sara was going on a honeymoon cruise or something.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Why get worked up over something that has not happened yet and is a throw away comment. Comments like these give Arrow fandom on the whole a bad reputation.
ReplyDeleteI have watched 2 seasons, I'm pretty sure that's enough.
ReplyDeleteYou are OFFENDED by a comment? lol ok.
ReplyDeleteThey have used Felicity to prop everyone for the entirety of season 2 and used EVERYONE to prop Lauren. I have no desire to watch them do it again.
I feel bad for hating Laurel as much as I do. I started watching this show because of Katie Cassidy but now every time she shows up on screen I have to groan.
ReplyDeleteShe was okay in S1 and she had an actual role in the show. In S2 she was just all over the place and felt shoehorned in whenever she showed up.
You're right, I dislike Lauren and probably always will. I didn't sign a contract when I started watching the show to like a character so I see NO reason to.
ReplyDeleteFunny how "non" shippers always bring ships into a discussion.
Actually, creating this sort of drama over ONE comment is what gives the Arrow fandom a bad reputation.
ReplyDeleteI agree. They have done too much damage to her character just by bad writing. Also I am not a fan of KC's acting. By the time Blindspot came around I just wanted her character to die or go away. Rest of the series didn't help either. The fact that once she came to know Arrow's identity she needed her father's speech to take Oliver and Sara's side didn't sit well with me. Her every scene in season finale from the bow & arrow to the jacket looked like fan baiting.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I am cautiously optimistic abt Laurel's future. They really should come out and say if she ever will become BC instead of this ambiguous dance.
I think the thing that finally got me to throw my hands up in disgust was her taking Helena's advice. Like, Laurel somehow thought it was a good idea to take the advice of an unhinged woman who held her and multiple others hostage. At gunpoint.
ReplyDeleteI would agree with you on one thing. They used Felicity's popularity to further Barry Allen and Grant Gustin. But other than that I didn't see any propping.
ReplyDeleteLaurel was a complete and utter mess in season 2. I have always said that. I wanted her to be written off at one point on the show. But the truth is she is not going anywhere. So if she can have good relationships with characters I love in small doses it will improve my enjoyment of viewing Arrow.
All I am saying is till now we have not had enough Laurel / Felicity scenes to speculate on how they will interact. Why be so negative on a throw away line by an EP who likes to stir every fandom.
I know! it was as if she decided it was allright to be murderer and join people who did aweful things to her and her family, and everyone was like "ok, sure, it's fine honey, you go be a murderer, we support you"
ReplyDeleteIt was really bad writing....
Then don't, no one is forcing you to watch anything. If it bothers you so much do as I do and fast-forward during the scenes of the characters you don't like. It's easier than complaining about it and better than being offensive to other posters.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the moral stuff was weird in the second half of S2. Sara's whole moral crisis made no sense. And Laurel, who is now wielding blackmail like a sledgehammer, has to be the one to reassure her that she is a good person? I didn't buy it at all.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion the BoP episode was completely unnecessary in an already crowded last half of season 2. They really was no need for a Helena episode when she was not a part of season finale. They could have used that time to show Roy hitting some targets using his bow.
ReplyDeleteI hated it when Laurel took Helena's comment at heart. I also hated it when Thea walkef away with Malcolm in the finale. Why would these intelligent women do that? Laurel accepting and approving that comment was so against the Laurel we saw in season 1. Then she went ahead and blackmailed the DA. I am not against a little bit of blackmail when it comes to my heroes. But it should be for saving someone. I don't even mind if Oliver kill some bad guys who might come back and cause some chaos. But Laurel blackmailed
for getting her job back. *sigh* Another thing I disliked last season was her lack of reaction to the fact she killed a man.
It was like writers were deliberately trying to make her look bad. But I hope its all in the past and they will be somehow able to integrate her into the show in an enjoyable manner. I like it better if I can love every character in a show. Its difficult when you can't stand one aspect of the show.
I didn't think they were trying to make Laurel look bad. I think they were trying to make her look like a badass(and failing). The tone of the scenes where she used blackmail felt like it was supposed to be somehow empowering. As if her using blackmail was her taking control of her life.
ReplyDeleteIf that was their intention then I can say they failed miraculously. Honestly I don't care about her character. I don't care who becomes BC if she ever will become BC . I just want her to not annoy me so much when she is on screen so I can tolerate her and enjoy the show.
ReplyDeleteDon't even get me started on that. I like shaded characters and morally flawed ones, but hypocrites don't sit with me so well, and last season they made almost every character a hypocrite and one point or another.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, there's too much drama when she's around Oliver. My favourite Laurel moment was when she let it all go and hugged him in 2x19 after finding out he's the Arrow. I do want to see her interact with Felicity. I also wish we had got a Felicity/Thea scene at some point. That would have been hilarious.
ReplyDeleteYou can add Diggle, who aside from 2 big episodes spent 20 episodes in the background being supportive, but yeah, everyone who isn't Oliver and Lance suffered, though I think Moira and Sara had good story arcs. Slade's character was ruined, Laurel had 2 bad storylines that presented her in a bad light (but once she discovered Oliver's identity the writers suddenly knew what to do with her and it improved), Thea was just the supportive girlfriend until the last few episodes, Felicity was in every episode but got zero development. And the Mirakuru storyline sucked while the island flashbacks were predictable and meandering. Sorry, I needed to vent a bit. As a whole I did enjoy the season, but the characters suffered so I really hope it'll be better in S3, because it sounds promising.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry you can always vent with me. Whenever I hear media say season 2 of Arrow was great and awesome. I really wish these people will point out the flaws too. Atleast EPs understands their mistakes.
ReplyDeleteAtleast they tried with Sara, Moira and Laurel.
Sara's arc was alright until she slept with Oliver. Then she stopped fighting men who go against women, got a job as a bartender - how a vigilante who fights at night can be a bartender is still a mystery. After all the morality crisis she walked away with an assassin.
Moira's was another wtf. One episode no one will even attend her party. Next episode all the Starling city is happily making her Mayor. But I liked her conflict and relationship with her children.
Laurel's arc I think both if done right would have been great. They failed in execution. Bad dialogues, bad pacing, bad acting. Also making her missing from few episodes in the earlier episodes was a big mistake. When she came back people really was not interested. I feel they have done unrepairable damage to Laurel character. It will be a mammoth task to make people warm up to her imo.
Thea was hardly there at all. But they were successful in making her look a responsible adult in the beginning of season 2 which I liked. But come season 2B she starts making stupid decisions.
Felicity I would say didn't have any annoying storylines but didn't get the growth she deserved. Her confidence and her relationship with Oliver and Diggle did grow though.
Roy was okay until he became a member of Team Arrow. After that poof.
Don't get me started on Digg. I will rant. What they did with that character last season was a crime. He is a 3 tour special forces veteran and they made him fetch files. Huh....
Guess I had to vent too. Arrow EPs always give good interviews. They sound passionate and excited. But how much of it will translate on screen is something we have to wait and see.
Laurel could be enjoyable if they stop concentrating on the Oliver cheating fiasco altogether. Let her move on. Be successful. Let Sara go on her on path too. But I don't see it happening as they will have to bring Oliver's child into the fore front some time. Then the same bitterness and betrayal saga will start again.
ReplyDeleteHaha, I guess you needed to vent too. You're right about Sara and Moira's storylines. I did like Thea being a responsible adult, but she wasn't being developed, she was just there to support Roy. Then in the last few episodes she got development, just not necessarily a good one. I mean I'm not happy with her deciding to not sign papers and make her mom and brother (as well as herself) bankrupt, but my biggest problem is the ending with Merlyn. For starters- she shot him! It wasn't when he just showed up or after he said something that triggered her, it was literally in the middle of a sentence and I'm sorry, she's 19 and has never shot someone before, I just can't see how the Thea we know would just try and kill someone like it was no big deal. And then going away with a mass murderer, because he "never lied to her". Yeah, sure. Hey, if she comes back a badass and ends up turning on Malcolm and joining Team Arrow, I'll live with it.
ReplyDeleteThey really didn't handle Laurel's storyline right at all and they tried to make her look like the bad guy, when Sara and Oliver decided to show up at her place together and then Oliver tells an addict to "go have a drink on him"? Boy were they both crappy towards her, but she's the one who ended up apologizing. But once she discovered the truth about Oliver I think they found a good storyline for her and I'm actually excited to see her start her journey to becoming BC. Just make her and Oliver friends right now, let her interact with Team Arrow, while also training (with Ted Grant?) and I think it'll do her character wonders.
I really hope that the EPs know what worked last season and what didn't and that they'll work hard on making sure they don't make the same mistakes in S3. Right now the tidbits they've said about the different characters sounds promising, we just have to wait and see.
I'm also glad that Guggenheim is self-aware enough to admit that they botched up Roy's storyline. He finally joined the team in 2x12, then disappeared for two episodes (except for a brief 2x14 cameo), and then we saw him already training and seemingly familiar with everyone in 2x15. They skipped over his training and his induction into Team Arrow, and then the whole Mirakuru shit went down. As mentioned before, the show spent more time on guest characters and DC easter eggs last season than on the actual regular cast. Hope that changes next year.
ReplyDeleteFor the same reason, I hope they're careful about the re-introduction of Sara. To be honest, I'm not thrilled she's coming back in the very first episode. She was overused in the second half of last season and that's why fan enthusiasm for her died down considerably. She needs to be a recurring character only. She's the type of character who only works in small doses.
I'd like to be optimistic about Laurel but, you know... fool me 17 times and all. I do hope she and Felicity can develop a positive relationship. I'm tired of the women on Arrow being pitted against each other over Oliver's affections by the fandom. Also, the EP's need to stop being coy about whether or not Laurel is going to be BC. Make up your mind already.
I'm honestly kind of dreading Diggle having a baby and Oliver's secret child who is still out there. Kids are never, ever a good thing in action shows, and I signed up to see these guys kicking ass, not changing diapers. (Well, Oliver's kid isn't a baby anymore so there are presumably no diapers involved, but you know, same difference.)
Thea seems like she might finally have a decent storyline, but it needs to be written carefully. Please do not make her a stooge who Malcolm can play like a fiddle. I'm okay with her decision to join him only if it's made clear that she doesn't trust or like him, and is only using him for her own purposes - to learn how to be strong and stand on her own two feet. Making her a foil to Team Arrow is an exciting possibility, but it needs to be driven by a decision SHE makes (and a palatable one) to view the Arrow as a villain, not by her bio-father manipulating her.
When I look back to season 2 especially second half I have this feeling they decided upon how the season is going to end first and then wrote some stuff to make the characters some how reach that point with no care.
ReplyDeleteThey needed Thea to go away with Malcolm so they made her really irrational. Why would she do that? She could just move out of her house cut ties with her family and live on her own terms instead of leaning on a mass murderer. *rolls eyes*
Laurel arc was a mess to begin with but once Oliver and Sara started to sleep together (and that's why I dislike parts of Sara. CL is a cutie though) all three of them regressed. There was no need for that sleeping again with sister melodrama. As if these three didn't have any issues before. It was uncomfortable for me as a woman and a sister to sit and watch Sara taking Oliver to that dinner, Laurel apologizing to Sara (Sara didn't even say sorry) and Laurel giving advise on Oliver and Sara's romantic relationship.*barf* This is why I want this whole cheating thing to be forgotten altogether. Let Laurel move on and be successful. Let Sara go with her own storyline. But with the impending Oliver's child storyline the cheating and betrayal will come back. I really am not interested in that angst.
Laurel blackmailing the DA to get her job back, Sara's flashback bomb about Laurel sabotaging her chances with Oliver (retconning much), again blackmail to drop charges for her father.... what are they doing with this character. Do they want us to like her or dislike her? If they were trying to make her look bad ass by doing that, it didn't work. But Laurel once knowing Arrow's and Sara's secret listening to Quentin's talk and keeping their secret was a nice development.
I dislike Laurel a lot and I dislike the acting too but I know you are a fan and I hope for all our sake they could make her work because the show will be more enjoyable that way. And they really need to lighten her up a bit and not give her campy dialogues like I know you in my bones.
I agree with you about basically everything. Laurel needs to move on and be successful and I'd love Sara to have her own storyline about the League (and interact with her family more). I'm not sure what they were thinking with Laurel resorting to Blackmail- maybe less her being badass and more morally gray so she'd end up a vigilante? Between that and Thea walking away with Merlyn, I'm not sure they understand the characters, but I'm more interested in the end result for these storylines, so I'll accept it.
ReplyDeleteLOL, I wasn't a Laurel fan in S1, but fandom's OTT hatred of her (disliking her character or Katie's acting is fine and legitimate, I'm talking about literal hate and wanting her dead) made me decide to support her character. Katie isn't the best actress, but it's the CW, she's decent by their standards and the writers really messed up with her character. I've decided to just support all the female characters (Slade was my favorite and they fridged Shado and ruined his character to make him a villain so I probably don't have a favorite right now) so I want Laurel to be the BC and badass, I want Thea to get training and eventually become Oliver's Speedy, I want Sara to survive and have a storyline/help her sister become a vigilante without dying in the process and I want Felicity to be her own character and not half of a ship. I'm a non-shipper, in general I prefer dynamics to romance and have rarely shipped in any fandom, so I have no horse in the race, in fact I think Oliver is a douche and doesn't deserve any of these ladies.
I don't understand what they are gaining by dancing around the BC issue. Either Laurel will become BC and it will take some time or she wont. At least then some internet fighting can be stopped. They really need to commit towards this. I don't know what I feel about Laurel on the whole. I like what I hear in the spoilers and interviews. But all of Arrow's EPs and cast are good at giving interviews. That don't necessarily mean it will translate well on screen. Show me and then I will believe.
ReplyDeleteI am scared Digg will be removed from the main story line with this baby drama. Also I hope Oliver's kid won't come this season. If it does then we will once more have to go through Oliver cheated on Laurel melodrama. I can't anymore... please...
I hope Thea is in control of her life and she still doesn't know Oliver is the Arrow. Then Oliver can change her mind by revealing himself when things go wrong. Also I hope they show her doing some business or something and be confident. Keeping Thea on Malcolm's side for long will be a mistake. They better make her a part of Team Arrow by second half beginning.
The blackmail thing made zero sense, especially in an episode that one of the EP's claimed is where Laurel "gets her groove back" after the whole addiction mess. This is Laurel's rehabilitation? Taking inspiration from Helena and using blackmail to get what she wants? When they did it again later (Laurel somehow managing to strong-arm DA Spencer into releasing her father from custdoy), it was also downright absurd from a realism standpoint. That time around, she didn't even have any leverage. She threatened to become a defense attorney and persecute the DA's office (what?) and that scared Spencer so much that she folded and released Quentin. What. The. Hell?!
ReplyDeleteI always thought it had to do with KCs contract. She was apparently signed for 3 years, SA contract gets renewed when the show is renewed. So i am thinking who will become BC will be clear after all the contracts are signed. I am so not looking forward to this push & pull with the BC role for another season. I think Caity as Sara/Canary is perfect. Also due to the fact that i think BC should be a recurring character, since this story is primarily an Arrow story. And i don't need to see 2 origins story for BC.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Fandom's hatred for KC and Laurel is extreme most of the time. But you can't deny that both the actor and the writers completely failed to connect with audience any time during these past two seasons.
ReplyDeleteKC is definitely not the worst actor on Arrow. I give that honor to Caity Lotz. She just can't do drama scenes. But she is bad ass as canary and has a compelling character history in her favour and she can do vulnurable really well. Many people disagree with me so feel free to do so :) Also Colton Haynes has the acting range of a wood log in my opinion.
You cannot completely blame the writers for Laurel not connecting with the audience. After Stephen Amell, KC gets most opportunities in this show to emote. But nothing sticks. Like in season 1 episode where Dinah comes back was a wonderful opportunity for her to do something away from Oliver. But KC overdid things and I ended up disliking Laurel more.
I am not a shipper but I don't mind people shipping certain pairing or for watching the show only for a pairing. Its their right. What I need is balance. Also if you tease something then do it. That's why I want Oliver/Felicity relationship to happen atleast once in this show. They teased growing affections between these two in season 2 . So I am happy they are going there. That does not mean I want them to be end pairing or Felicity to be only about Oliver's love interest or anything. I hope atleast for one season Oliver will show romantic affections to just one character. I am a Felicity fan first and foremost. She is my most favorite character. Then diggle and Oliver.
I thought they all had contracts for 5 years. I know Colton has for 5 years. So KCs contract ends this season. That's why they are so ambiguous about it. I think they will try one more season to make people like Laurel and if the response is positive and KC is willing they might declare her as new BC. KC got too many bad press with this role so I don't know if she would want to continue in this role. On the other hand this is a steady job so who knows.
ReplyDeleteWho knows maybe we all will fall miraculously in love with Laurel this season. I too agree if there is a black canary in the show she should be a recurring character in a handful of episodes every season. I want the same for Ray Palmer/Atom. If he is a costumed hero then he should leave the show after his arc this season and then recur for may be one or two episodes the coming seasons. Arrow should always be the primary character in this show and if other supes or vigilantes if exists along side then they should be side kicks like Roy, Speedy or Artemis.
With the whole blackmailing thing Laurel could definitely be Manhunter. I sincerely hope they lighten her up a bit. She will be so much more bearable.
Maybe a better actress would have done more with the crappy material and salvaged it, personally I think Laurel has some good moments (particularly with Lance, the two play off each other really well) and some weak ones. I'm hoping with a good storyline in S3 she manages to do better. OMG Colton's acting is just... It's something special and while Caity isn't that good, she's not terrible. I don't think there's anyone on the show who is unwatchably bad.
ReplyDeleteI had some major issues with how they wrote Felicity in S2, like her badmouthing Moira at her funeral, her saying about Barry that "even in a coma, he moved on" (what is she- 15? Right before going into a coma Barry told her he's there if she wants to, I don't care who went to visit him or why, the guy clearly couldn't have 'moved on')- if Emily wasn't as cute and likable as she is, those moments would have really turned me against her character. As it is, I just didn't like Felicity as much as in S1 and I hope they do better for her character and remember that she's a character and not just half of a ship.
I hate ship baiting, which is basically what the writers did in S2 (and they upped Felicity's awkward innuendo to an uncomfortable 100) so I'm all in favor of them getting together already so the writers can stop with the fake-out "I love you" and baiting. All I want is for there to be a woman on the show Oliver isn't related to/isn't dating Diggle and for Oliver to not sleep with. I'm hoping that character is Amanda Waller, I'm sure he'll sleep with Katana, just please let Amanda have better taste and not fall for whatever charm he's supposed to have. Beyond that, I don't care who Oliver hooks up with, as long as it doesn't hurt that character's development.
CW is mostly contracting only for three years with offer to renew for leads, with one year contracts for everyone else. Katie was probably signed to a three year contract at least according to a lawyer who apparently deals with a lot of CW actors.
ReplyDeleteMy big problem with Laurel is still connected to the Tommy thing and how she just shrugs off killing someone and the blackmail thing, but mostly the Tommy thing.
And if the writers would have just changed her motivations for being in the Glades Laurel character wouldn't be as a bad. For example if they showed her similar to what they did with Sara in finale where she went to save that child. But those damn papers still piss me off so much. I don't think it will change for the better when i see Tommy again in episode 2.
Laurel definitely has had some good moments. I Like how Moira, Thea and Oliver actually looks like family. They even look alike. Just like that Quentin, Sara and Laurel actually look like they are really a family with the way they act. I love that. I always compare KCs position with Leah Pipes in the Originals. Her character is also really just floating around but Leah Pipes is such a good actress she makes you want to root for her even with crappy story lines.
ReplyDeleteFelicity definitely had some bad moments in season 2. Especially some bad comic dialogues. The important one that comes to mind are Oliver's algebra results, Fantasy island comment and Moira's funeral. That was writer's way of shoehorning Felicity humor in a place it was unnecessary. Actually Barry did move on in his coma. Didn't you see Flash pilot. He was pining for Iris. LOL. I am kidding. I think that was writer's way of pulling a pin on Barry/Felicity romance as Episode 20 backdoor pilot got closed. I believe they had plans to do that real time in that episode.
Also most people liked Time of Death but as a Felicity fan I was unhappy with that episode on a whole. It brought Felicity's awesomeness few notches down imo. I hated that leather jacket scene in that episode. I am also upset that in season 2B they shot several Sara/Felicity bonding moments but it got cut on the editing table. Like really? The first thing you cut is the female bonding moments. If they are not careful with how they move with Oliver/Felicity this season it might cause more damage than good. But I am happy they are going there this season. At least it won't be just a tease that way.
If Waller and Oliver sleep together I will riot. I hope he won't sleep with Katana too as she is married. But they have already confirmed a love interest in Hong Kong. So much for pining over Laurel's photo. I hate hate hate it how they retconned Laurel's character and Laurel/Oliver's background this season by making Sara the good guy and Laurel the bad guy.
Yes those damn papers. If only they showed that papers doing some good in season 2 at least. Why would you give your problamatic character more half assed motivations?
ReplyDeleteMore than the damn papers I have issue with her taking a life and not reacting on it. Not even a nightmare. Oliver had huge reaction once he killed Fyers. He even goes a bit cukoo. Oliver kills Ivo so that Sara don't need to do it. I think we will see her first kill too. Roy taking that police officer's life is going to be a big deal in season 3. But when Laurel takes a life and empties a whole clip of bullets into a man its forgotten just like that.
Still I hope they giver her good lines and make her tolerable this season. I am tired of hating her.
In Laurel's case in particular, I've lost count of how many times they've hyped her up in interviews. We keep hearing "We have a really exciting storyline coming up for Laurel" in interviews, but we sure don't see it on screen subsequently. They need to figure out who and what she's supposed to be, in their mind - as an individual in her own right. Being defined as Oliver's epic love is not doing her character any favors.
ReplyDeleteAnd if there must be more Lance sister drama, can it at least be between the sisters themselves and not involve Oliver and the sordid history of that threesome? Even before Sara left to rejoin the LoA, in that stupid dock scene where everyone acted like it was no big deal, she had to tell Laurel Oliver needs her. Can they seriously not write a relationship between sisters as being about anything but the man who grossly cheated on one of them with the other?
I just remember how much I disliked Lance and his weird accent/way of talking in S1 and now I really like him. Just a random thought, you're bringing up a lot of them (I don't rewatch shows, so I don't remember a lot of plot points until they're brought up).
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about the Queen and Lance family looking and acting like a real family. It's why I don't want Thea to be bad- I want more Thea-Oliver and Thea-Walter (OMG I love Walter so much), just like I want more Lance-Sara-Laurel, so I don't want Sara or Lance to die. Hopefully now that they've finally figured out what to do with KC, things will get better. One of the EPs had a recent interview where they say that Thea and Laurel didn't really have a strong storyline and they're doing it in S3, so I'm really excited for that.
I didn't see the Flash Pilot (even though I know all the details) because I don't want to wait 2-3 months between episodes 1-2. I think the writers went 'people love Felicity's awkward funny lines, let's amp it up to 100!' or 'people love Olicity, let's shove it into every episode in a fan-baity way and give them a fake 'I love you' moment!' Like there is such a thing as too much of a good thing or taking something that works in small doses and overdoing it, which they sort of did with Felicity in S2, as far as I'm concerned, so I'm hoping they realize that and work on her as a character rather than just part of a fan favorite ship. More Felicity development and backstory, regardless of Olicity and a bit less awkward 'comic' moment.
They seriously cut out Sara-Felicity scenes? Grrrr, why am I not surprised. We need more female bonding on the show, give me Sara-Laurel, Sara-Felicity, Felicity-Laurel, Thea-whomever. And you KNOW he's going to sleep with Katana, whether he waits until her husband dies or not. Yeah, gotta love the Laurel retcon and making her the bad guy so Sara and Oliver look good and how Oliver was so in love with Laurel, but he cheated on her twice (and managed to get a girl knocked up in the process) and probably slept with at least 1 woman per flashback year, because God forbid he spend some time being celibate while going through hell. Oliver can be such a dick, LOL.
This is really an example of lazy writing throwing a character under the bus. They wanted to kill Tommy off in a way that was A) heroic and B) a catalyst for Oliver and Laurel to feel guilt which would drive their arcs next season. Okay. How did they accomplish this? Making Laurel stay behind, in a building that was about to fall apart due to an earthquake, so she could "save" some files. Who came up with that idiotic plot point - having another character die due to Laurel's stupidity and lack of survival instincts? Couldn't they have had Laurel get trapped somewhere WHILE FLEEING THE GLADES and therefore need saving by Tommy? It seriously doesn't take that much effort to write these things differently so that they wouldn't cast characters, in this case Laurel, in such a bad light.
ReplyDeleteI don't have much hope. The show is about Arrow and her relationship with Arrow is clouded with sordid history. Melodrama is inevitable. I am looking forward to this new character who could be her new LI or her trainer. May be this guy will improve Laurel. Arrow producers and their interviews. Emmy worthy performance comes to mind. I will believe it when I see it.
ReplyDeleteI don't even know how the Lance sisters even communicate with each other now about Oliver. They should completely avoid the topic of Oliver in all their conversations period.
Its small details like this that Arrow always gets wrong. They only look at end result. They don't care how they reach there. They wanted Thea to go with Malcolm so they made her irrational. They wanted Sara to go away so that Laurel can have a working relationship with Arrow so they send her away giggling with assassins. They want Slade to take revenge from Oliver so they fridge Shado and give Slade the most asnine motivation ever. I would have believed Slade's anger and madness if they would have put Slade in a relationship with Shado on the island and then she died the way she did. That would have given some credit to Oliver pining for Laurel in the island thing.
ReplyDeleteOh I disliked Quentin in season 1. Thea not so much but she had her moments of suckiness and whining too. But they really turned these characters around in season 2. So I do have hope for Laurel. Also I think people resonates with characters who enjoys themselves and have fun and light moments. That's why people like Felicity, Dig with his dry humor, Oliver when he is with these two and even Sara with Sin. Sara seems really lighter and happy when she is with Sin and when she is in Arrow cave. Sara even jokes around with Quentin. Laurel always had heavy story lines. She never got a chance to just relax and enjoy. Once they do that I think opinions of audience will change. She had some lighter moments with Tommy even though it was always clouded with Oliver and Arrow drama. That's why people like Tommy/Laurel pairing so much.
ReplyDeleteFemale bonding is so needed in this show. I loved Thea/Sin scenes however few they were last season. No jealousy nothing just plain friendship. The problem with Sara, Laurel and Felicity is they are all Oliver's potential or ex romantic interests. So their bonding will always have Oliver factor involved. But I really like Felicity's instant approval of Sara in the beginning and Sara's protectiveness of Felicity in ToD. If and when Thea/ Felicity scenes happen it will be hilarious.
Laurel retconning was unnecessary imo. What I liked about Sara was she made a mistake, suffered in the past, did wrong things, owned upto her past and became awesome. They really didn't need to make Laurel look bad to make her look good. She was already awesome. No retconning will justify Oliver and Sara jumping into a relationship before Sara reconciling with Laurel and also Laurel was struggling so much.
Oliver and celibate while he is spending 5 years on a hellish island BLASPHEMY. I am going to believe he won't sleep with Katana until it happens. Because I am expecting her to come sometime in the present timeline and I don't need another Oliver romance drama. Maybe he will sleep with some random HongKong chick. Oliver is all about his dick. LOL
Great comment. I love this show as a whole and I want this show to work. Laurel isn't going anywhere so I think it's good that the writers are trying to incorporate her in the plot and try to improve her character.
ReplyDeleteBecause the shipper bias is incredible obvious and some us actually care about the show as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI was ok with Laurel and Oliver getting back together in the first season 'cause i thought that he really regretted cheating on her with Sara and redeemed himself after spending all those years in the island. Then season two happened and we found out that he slept with both Shado and Sara. Now i'm certain they're going to find someone he can sleep with in Hong Kong as well.
ReplyDeleteSorry to intrude, but i've just read everything both of you wrote and now i'm feeling like i'm part of this conversation, lol.
It's not a private conversation, lol, feel free to jump in and I agree- Oliver is going to find someone to sleep with in Hong Kong and my money is on Katana.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I didn't dislike Thea in S1, but she had her moments. I think the reason Thea was 100% more likable in S2 was that she was basically background to prop up Roy and his storyline, so they made her mature and caring and saved all the drama for the last few episodes. I really hope Katie's enthusiasm (all her work out posts, her excitement over BC stoyrline) bleeds into the character, because yeah, Laurel would be a lot more fun if she enjoyed herself a bit and smiled.
ReplyDeleteI liked Sara-Sin and Thea-Sin and how there was no jealousy with Felicity-Sara or Thea-Sin, we need more of that. S1 had some nice Thea-Laurel moments, maybe we can have some more of that as well. I did like Tommy/Laurel, because you're right, he brought out a different side to her.
I hate when they retcon to try and make complicated characters more black and white. Not only did they retcon with Laurel, Sara also never apologized for what she did, while Laurel, who was right to be mad at them showing up together to the family dinner, had to end up apologizing to them and give them relationship advice.
Unfortunately, my money is on Katana as the love interest, unless they really want to piss me off and make it Amanda. I would love for it to be a random person, but I'm worried about Oliver's exes in the present being able to start their own club. I hope Katana (and her husband, but he's probably doomed) is a badass and I want her to show up in the present as well. Oliver is definitely all about his dick, but unfortunately so is the show. I really hope we have less of that on The Flash- Barry just isn't that kind of guy.
Another thing I dislike the way they deal with laurel. They start stuff and abandon it. They tried this Thea/Laurel mentor thing in season 1 and dropped it like a hot potato just after the introduction of Roy Harper. We don't see Thea/Laurel interaction after that till the time when she goes to Laurel for help against Sebastian Blood with Sin. They didn't give Thea/Laurel enough time to create any bonding. These things take more than one episode to happen. Thea had more bonding with Sin with their sleuthing and shared worry for Roy.
ReplyDeleteActually all through out season 2 writers were actually giving more ammunition to the audience like me who already disliked Laurel to throw up our hands and say enough. I sincerely hope they learn from their mistakes. I don't trust them much when it comes to Laurel. They always give great interviews about Laurel like Emmy worthy episode, or Laurel getting her groove back which turns out to be Laurel getting shouted on by Oliver and ends up apologizing to Sara , or blackmailing the DA.
I hope you are wrong about Katana. I heard Katana was also a part of birds of prey once. BoP in Arrow world is already women who banged Oliver. If Katana has a relationship with him in flashbacks and comes to the present and join BoP thats just ....urghhh.. But I will take Oliver sleeping with Katana if it will avoid Oliver from doing the horizontal Tango with Amanda.
Please Barry is so not that guy. He is in love with Iris and knows it and accepts it.
You are welcome to our rantfest. How else will we suffer this summer hiatus? I gave up on Oliver Laurel relationship the moment they hurt Tommy by jumping into bed after Oliver giving advise to Tommy to go back to Laurel. Now with all the Sara thing in present and past I just can't accept Oliver/Laurel pairing. And Laurel needs to move on from Oliver's betrayal How many seasons more will they concentrate on this cheating thing. I guess one more with Oliver's kid coming up. Laurel will definitely feel betrayed again. *sigh*
ReplyDeleteThey already confirmed Oliver will sleep with someone in HongKong. Now who is the question? I hope its not Katana or Amanda. Let him sleep around with random HongKong chicks.
Yeah, they definitely start and stop Laurel storylines or just don't develop them properly (like the drug storyline that nobody cared about and was then resolved instantly). Someone on IMDb said that if they would have bothered showing Laurel's POV- her guilt over Tommy's death (like seeing her looking at his picture before popping pills), going into her PTSD over being kidnapped, etc then we'd care more about her storyline, since we could understand where she's coming from, but the show never did it. And yeah, I wish we would have had more Laurel-Thea, in S2 besides her showing up at Moira's funeral and telling Thea she's here for her. I really hope the writers learned from their mistake with Laurel, I know for some people the damage is already done and nothing will make them like her (and that some people are biased against her and will hate her no matter what) but I'm sure there are enough people who just want to watch good stories and compelling characters and if Laurel does that/gets that, they'll be on board.
ReplyDeleteI hope I'm wrong about Katana, but yeah, I'll take Oliver/Katana over Oliver/Amanda.
Barry is totally not that guy and he's not a player like Oliver. And while I haven't seen the leaked Pilot, I'm assuming Iris isn't like that either, so even though we're getting love triangles of doom, I'm hoping it's not as bad as Arrow. Speaking of, I find die hard shippers amusing (not ordinary shippers, the really fanatic ones)- like the ones saying that Felicity and Ray don't have chemistry from a goofy BTS picture, or the ones who decided even before the trailer for The Flash came out to ship Barry/Caitlin, or the ones who after that trailer came out (but before the pilot leaked) decided that Barry and Iris have no chemistry (based on one quick scene) and that Barry/Caitlin do (again, based on one scene where she tells him to pee in a cup). These kinds of people have made up their minds and come into a show with a bias, nothing to be done about that. Being a non-shipper, I'm just here for characters and storylines and I can rant about those till I'm blue in the face, so it's probably a good thing I'm not much of a shipper, LOL.
Yeah, the irrational Laurel hate is what got me to support her in the first place, though the writers don't make it easy for me. And people need to stop pitting women against one another- we need more female characters having good development, storylines and interacting with one another. I'm also not a shipper and my life is better for it (I still have plenty to rant about with the show), I care more about the characters getting development and storylines than who they sleep with/end up with.
ReplyDeleteI am one of the people for whom damage is already done when it comes to Laurel. I want her to blend with Arrow storyline and have good relationship with everyone. I just don't want to be annoyed seeing her face which was my reaction all through out season 2. I don't think I can ever come to like her or cheer for her again. If writers can make that happen. cool. But I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteMy main ick factor with Laurel is I am sure sometime in the future they are going for a third round with Oliver/Laurel. They have not given up on this. I just can't stand the thought of Laurel with Oliver again after all the mess previous season. And then KC goes ahead and gives the interview that Laurel is more in love with Oliver now that she knows his secret. If the actress herself perceives the character like that what future does it have?
You are stronger than I am. How can you not have the itch to see The Flash pilot. It was just adorable and awesome. You will love Barry/Iris. Infact you will love every single character in that show. Amazing cast and great chemistry between everyone. even Eddie Thawne. Iris/Barry is already shown so strong even without romance that how many ever triangles happen on the show they will survive. Caitlin is adorable too. Even if the go there with Caitlin/Barry it won't affect the show much imo. The dynamic and mood of the show is so different and light. Unlike Arrow which is weighed down by melodrama and tragedy. Personally I think people will enjoy The Flash more than Arrow.
When I first heard Brandan Routh was cast as Arrow and is supposed to be LI against Felicity I was disappointed. I still am. I don't like him. I don't like his previous works. I don't like his acting. So I am one of the people who think (maybe I should use the word speculate) Ray/Felicity won't have chemistry LOL. Feel free to prove me wrong show. I would appreciate it. He seems like a cool person in real life and they said Ray is a funny character. I have never seen Brandan do comedy. Lets wait and see.
What is your opinion about Roy still needing cure doses? like WTF so Slade is still super mad?
God .. You read all these long posts. Awesome:)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can understand how for some people the damage is already done, but it takes a lot for me to give up on a female character if she has an ounce of storyline/development potential. Alana on Hannibal I gave up on, the writers clearly don't know what to do with her, since in S2 they made her just a love interest/plot device/proxy and I was never her biggest fan in S1.The writers are welcome to prove me wrong, but I won't lose any sleep if she gets killed off. But I feel like with Laurel there's still potential, if handled right. God, I really need for them to not even think about Oliver/Laurel for a few seasons- let her bond with Team Arrow and train to be the BC, she's getting her own love interest this season (Ted Grant maybe? Wishful thinking) so I'm hoping the writers don't agree with KC on that one. Right now I want Oliver and Laurel to work on being friends, there's way too much ugly, messy history and I'm sure once his kid comes up, it'll be even messier.
ReplyDeleteOh, I definitely have the itch to see The Flash, but reading all the spoilers helped with that, LOL. I don't mind knowing about it, I just don't want to see it and then wait months for the next one. I'm so glad you loved it and thought everyone had chemistry. I'm sure Barry/Iris will be adorable and so will Team Flash (though Cisco's acting on Arrow and in the trailer was kinda on the annoying side). I think the gen relationships are the ones I'm looking forward to the most, besides Team Flash (and Wells-Barry in particular), I really want to see Joe being a father figure for Barry. I'm a sucker for parent/child but not by blood dynamics, probably why I love Walter-Thea so much. The Flash being lighter sounds promising and I love people with super powers, which is another difference we'll have between Arrow and The Flash. My dad probably won't watch The Flash since he's not big on Sci Fi/Fantasy, but I am, plus not having powers tied the writers' hands on Arrow too much and gave us monstrosities like Count Vertigo, who bears no resemblance to his comic book character.
I haven't seen Brandan in anything, maybe he'll be bad, maybe he'll be good, but sometimes people can surprise you- even not great actors can shine with a tailor made character that works to their strength and acting abilities doesn't always generate chemistry. I'm keeping an open mind about Ray/Felicity, I just hope it won't all be about Olicity- Felicity deserves to have a life outside of Team Arrow and some happiness.
Gah, I went 'wait what?!' about Roy needing cure doses. God I really want to bury this Mirakuru storyline, it almost ruined the season for me and definitely ruined Slade. I hope they figure out a cure off screen (you know Amanda is tranquing the sh!t out of Slade), Roy can have other issues (Thea, being a hero, killing a cop), we don't need a repeat of Terminator!Roy. And Slade needs to stay gone for a few seasons so he can mellow out, realize how crazy it is to obsess over Shado's death for 5 years and plan an elaborate revenge plot (and tattoo her tattoo that he somehow memorized on Oliver), when Shado never even cared for him that way. The time he spent breaking into Shado's place and stealing her home movies, he could have been checking in on his family, if he even remembers they exist. I'm so mad they ruined my favorite character, Comic and animated Slade was so awesome and while he could definitely hold a grudge (RIP Bludhaven) he was basically a mercenary villain and a lot of times it was just a job.
I'd really love to know what Sara's entrance line. She comes in the cave, "I'm back bitchez" LMAO nah she wouldn't say that but that'd be hella funny!.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I like interacting with people who like different things from me. Your hope gives me hope for Laurel. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope that Arrow will try to reach its potential.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I first noticed in Flash pilot was the ensemble cast is more talented than Arrow. I love Arrow but when Arrow debuted the acting was really crappy and it took them almost half season to improve. But in The Flash they start with really strong performances. The relationship of Barry with Wells and Joe West are really sweet. There is two wonderful scenes between Barry and Joe which makes you like GG more for this role. They are awesome. Cisco is the one character with least fleshing out done. Right now he is this goofy tech expert guy who cut through Caitlin's coldness. I have huge expectations for this show. Hoping it wont get axed like The Secret Circle due to high production cost.
I want this cure issue to be done with as soon as possible. Find a permanent remedy by episode 3 so that we all can move on from mirakuru. If they are going for Arsenal addiction storyline from comics then I hope not. They tried addiction plot with Thea and Laurel even Quentin. They just are not equipped to do it right. Also how many addicts will be there in a show. One addict per season? So next year will be Oliver being a drunk like they did in Smallville. I don't think Manu will come back as Slade this season. He was not happy with the way his character shaped up.
OMG yess, not looking forward to the baby drama :S
ReplyDeleteFair enough, that's YOUR OPINION. You still haven't answered my question as to who Lauren is, but I suspect that you never will.
ReplyDeleteThe more Diggle centered episodes the better I say! I wish more showrunner's would own up to thier faults in certain plotlines like these guys just did, earned me thier respect with that.
ReplyDeleteI did! It's nice to see civilized conversations, sometimes people are very agressive in this fandom. =D
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteThea going away with Malcolm I can accept IF it's written correctly in terms of her motivation - if she's just using him, at least in her mind. (If they make it so she's drinking his Kool-Aid, I'll go nuts.) However, the event that triggered her decision on screen - finding Roy's quiver - is still ridiculous in my opinion. Five minutes before that, she agreed to get back together with Roy (who nearly killed her a few days ago) and leave SC with him. Then, she finds the quiver and IMMEDIATELY concludes that he's another liar she can't trust, therefore going to Malcolm instead. I realize she was actually right about Roy secretly fighting crime with the Arrow, but she had no way to know that. In fact, she was aware that he had previously gone crazy because of drugs - why not consider the possibility that the quiver has something to do with that? Also, if I remember correctly, she DID know that the Arrow had taken Roy under his wing in some capacity, so this wasn't some huge shocking revelation. Ultimately, it just makes no sense that she didn't even give Roy a chance to explain before bolting out of there and going off to her mass murderer of a bio-father. It's this quick change of motivation that's simply unrealistic.
I don't even have words for Slade's lame motivation for revenge against Oliver, at least not any that I haven't already said. That could've been done so much better, especially in terms of how quickly Slade went from "We're brothers" to "I swear eternal vengeance upon you". There wasn't even any interim phase of his rage at Oliver building to the point where he devotes his entire life to making Oliver's hell. And I hate female characters being fridged to drive a storyline for a male character. If it had to be done, I agree, they should've established more of a relationship between Slade and Shado, and I also think they should've killed Shado in such a way that Oliver DID carry some responsibility. I think it was possible to create a scenario where Oliver was somewhat to blame for Shado's death without making him look too bad. Instead, what we got was Shado dying through pretty much no fault of Oliver's, Ivo manipulating the entire scenario to deflect blame from himself and onto Oliver, and Slade ridiculously buying Ivo's shit hook, line and sinker.
Sara going away with the LoA is majorly annoying in that it undoes all of her character growth over the season. She had a chance to redeem herself and she threw it away. Sure, she wanted to save the city, but why are the denizens of SC more deserving of saving than any of the people Sara will be required to murder now that she's rejoined the LoA? All of that being said - again, even if it had to be done, it could've been done better. Namely, by Quentin and Laurel being devastated to hear that Sara had sold the soul she was just starting to get back, and trying desperately to talk her out of it; and by their goodbye NOT consisting of Quentin being grumpy like he just didn't like Sara's girlfriend and Laurel being all smiley and happy.
I've read a lot of people say just about that, Thea shooting Malcolm, that she did it SO much without any remorse or whatever, and maybe it was mid sentence, but that doesn't mean that right after, she wasn't COMPLETELY in shock as she walked away, only to be stopped by Malcolm and his mindgames ><
ReplyDeleteI think I would have been ok with her shooting Malcolm if it was right when she first saw him or if he said something to trigger it. As it is, it just seemed too abrupt and it shouldn't be easy for a 19 year old to just shoot someone, whether she's in shock or not. Then again, didn't Laurel kill someone and then never brought it up again (the guy she thought was Brother Blood)?
ReplyDeleteWait... So basically what you're saying is that you're all fine and dandy with her joining Malcolm, also with her being versus Team Arrow and Oliver, as long as SHE makes the decision herself? I mean... I kinda don't want Malcolm just simply playing her and manipulating her either, but if she makes that conscious decision herself, doesn't that basically mean that she'll make herself evil that way? I mean, I don't know how much of a way back there will be in general after everything of Malcolm, but if she chooses to fight against Team Arrow etc, I'm pretty sure that means she'll never actually join them or become Speedy either, because that would be a decision she wouldn't probably be able to get back grom.
ReplyDeleteBesides, the whole thing about her just using him to get strong and all that... Even that is kind of twisted in a way don't you think? I mean, in a way, you're basically describing that you want her to become JUST like Malcolm, selfish, evil, crazy and a killer, that only cares about herself and being powerful...
There's a difference between getting training and killing innocent people, I'm hoping Thea walks the line between good and bad, until she realizes she's not like Malcolm/he's evil and then turns good. Malcolm can train her and help her be 'stronger' but if she actually goes around killing people, then they've completely ruined her character (didn't Oliver say she's the best of them?)
ReplyDeleteI really hope Thea is in control too, I wouldn't mind either if Malcolm already blew his chance, but probably not... Her working for him with his business or whatever, nah... I wouldn't really like that, I mean, after not signing those weird papers (Which I just don't understand, because she thinks all things are meant to hurt her, but she does that to Oliver and the family in general?) Andi f she were to suddenly work for Malcolm and be strong in that, it would mostly be something like her actually saying she thinks herself more of a Merlyn, than a Queen, and that would already be something I would have to the core... If they do keep Thea on his side, I agree completely with you, they shouldn't drag it out, at max, they should turn her around and join Team Arrow with the midseason finale, or after, not a episode, or even minute later if you ask me...
ReplyDeleteThey made Malcolm say that Thea's so much like him, but she's not, some personality traits, SLIGHTLY, perhaps, but she's not a killer, and the writers and EP's should keep in mind what they made Oliver say to her, how she has the purest heart of all of them, and to promise him she wouldn't let herself lose that, because if that was just a writer's troll, I'd rather have they tell me.
I never bother arguing with people on line, because it's futile, you can't change anyone's opinion and it's like talking to a wall. But I love discussions like these, it helps me get a different perspective or helps sharpen my thoughts/opinions. I'm crossing my fingers for all the Arrow ladies getting good development and storylines this season, especially Thea and Laurel.
ReplyDeleteSo happy you think the ensemble on Flash is strong and that the Barry-Joe relationship is sweet. Obviously I'm all about the mystery that I read about at the end of the Pilot, I'm hoping those serial elements help balance out the 'freak of the week' Smallville-like quality to it. Oh The Secret Circle, it got axed just as it was getting good. :(
LOL, half the cast can have their own AA meeting and yeah, the show really doesn't know how to handle addiction storylines, so I hope that's not where they're going with Roy. I need the Mirakuru storyline to be over so I can forget about it and how they ruined Slade this season. Yeah, I heard Manu wasn't happy with his storyline this season and can you blame him? He was such a badass in S1 and could have been an anti-hero or a villain with a better motivation/reason for becoming bad. It was painful for me to watch him in S2, because he just wasn't Slade, especially during the flashbacks, where he was crazy and mopey. I'm gonna stop now before I get mad, LOL. Damn them for ruining my favorite character, now I don't even want him to come back unless they're planning on fixing him like they're starting to do with Helena.
I think what Alex means is it is okay for Thea to train with Malcolm if they show that Thea is using him to train as a fighter since everyone that lied to her said they did it for keeping her safe. Right now I don't know why Thea would go against Arrow. She has no relationship with him apart from Roy. None of his missions has ever affected her adversely. Only contact she had with Arrow is when he saved her in episode 1 of season 2. She has no reason to go against Team Arrow unless it is to simply annoy and upset Roy. That's what Alex meant when she said there should be a believable reason why she go against Team Arrow not just because Malcolm asks her to.
ReplyDeleteHm, that makes sense. But, then my point kind of still remains: If she finds a reason of her own to fight against them, she's less likely to get off it easily, a lot less at least I think than when it is actually Malcolm playing/pushing her into it or something.
ReplyDeleteIf it's something as simple as to upset Roy, than I guess that's not that bad, but something bigger or something... Just saying xD
The business thing came to my mind when I saw John Barrowman's interview during the CW upfronts. It was solely his opinion not producers that Malcolm would not only train her in martial arts but also in the business field. I liked the idea. Thea has already shown business accumen by running Verdant better than Oliver and Tommy. If she learns ins and outs of business with Malcolm she can take over and run QC. I know she is young but if Walter is involved somehow then she definitely can do it. Lets be honest Oliver running QC along with being Arrow is not happening. He should be like batman. Only attend some board meetings and let Thea take care of QC. She can help Arrow too alongside. I think it will be a good future for Thea.
ReplyDeleteThea is definitely not like Malcolm. One side of her maybe. You are right she is not a killer and I hope they don't make her one. I have a bad feeling they will. They have already made Laurel kill someone without any remorse, Roy kill a cop in mirakuru rage and Thea shoot Malcolm. So anything can happen.
I still think she will try to play Malcolm to gain knowledge and training. She will use this knowledge to unravel the secrets of Starling City and Oliver. I think she believes Oliver is still keeping lots of secrets from her, also Roy and that yet to be revealed secrets is what pushed her to go with the enemy, to protect herself and to gain knowledge. At least thats what I like to believe when it comes to Thea.
If I remember correctly Thea never knew that Arrow had taken Roy under his wing. She didn't even know he was passing information to Arrow using that small Arrow in the alley if I am correct. What I don't understand is Thea finds out Roy is lying to her about his association with Arrow by finding the bow and arrows (even though it doesn't make any sense) and she does not want to deal with him, Fine. But why go with Malcolm. Why not go away alone as planned earlier and get a job, start a new life. Be a waitress, bartender whatever be independent. Thea becoming a kick ass heroine is my dream for the character. But she should have a solid reason to put on a mask and fight. Not because people lie to her. Its just lame. I am just going with it because I love Thea and Willa Holland and I want her to get a strong story line.
ReplyDeleteI think only some people like us actually has a problem with Sara going off with Nyssa. It didn't make any sense to me at all. The whole tone of that scene was just off. But I read lot of reviews for season finale and also saw some video reviews for the episode in youtube and some podcasts. Apart from few reviewers no else actually had any problem with Sara's departure. Every one of them was stuck on the jacket and Oliver swap between sisters. I had to ask myself is my logic wrong or am I trying to make sense in a senseless show. No one else seems to be bothered by such glaring character flaws.
From what I can understand most of the reviewers, comic book fans and men watching this series don't care about cohesive story telling or character butchering. They just want good acting and lot of cool fight scenes with DC comic character cameos. Producers are just catering to these audience.
The least they could have done was give Slade some clarity moments once the cure was injected. Then there would have been hope that he can be this grey mercenary like he is in the comics. They just didn't reduce his madness at all and made him completely evil. Manu Bennett was so good though. He made Slade enjoyable even with this crappy story. Every other big bad's coming to Arrow has a huge shoes to fill. I love John Barrowman. But Slade kind of made Malcolm look like a pansy even though Malcolm had a better psycho storyline. I can't wait to hear what they have in store for Malcolm this season..
ReplyDeleteBut she would stop being against Team Arrow if and when Oliver reveals himself to her. As of now I believe Thea is unaware that Oliver is Arrow. That will change all her view points and bitterness. She will have to see things from his point of view which will bring her on Team Arrow's side.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was also hoping Slade would be more sane once he got the cure, but then that would mean that Oliver brought all this on himself and every death was on his head, since if he'd have given Slade the cure 5 years ago, none of this would have happened. Can't have Oliver be responsible for that (he can feel guilty and LIKE he's responsible, but they can't actually have him be responsible). I love John Barrowman and can't wait to see what Malcolm is up to in S3, but yeah, Manu was great as the big bad. I'm not even sure if Malcolm is meant to be the big bad in S3, for all we know there's a different big bad in S3 and Malcolm has his own thing with Thea.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I just seriously really hope so... And Again, I also REALLY hope that they know not to try and drag this out too long.
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