Well now I'm sad, but that was a great episode. Much better than the midseason finale. And wow, Jared was amazing at playing Gadreel and then switching back to Sam (or vice versa, depending on how they filmed it). He knocked it out of the park.
Ugh at the tattoo being gone and Crowley possessing him, but the tattoo thing can be fixed as soon as possible. And I loved Crowley assuring Sam it wasn't his fault Kevin is dead, that it was Gadreel. And I also loved all the Cas/Crowley moments.
I hate that the boys broke up yet again, but this is only temporarily and after that screwed up situation, much needed. Plus, I know they'll reunite soon.
Well, I was definitely surprised by how Sam was depossessed. I wasn't expecting Crowley to possess him so that was interesting to me and an unexpected twist. I liked the scene in Sam's mind w/Crowley and Gadreel. Sam looked really hot when he had Gadreel on the ground w/his foot on Gadreel's neck commanding that Gadreel get out. I also laughed when Sam referred to Gadreel as "psycho angel." Haha!
Surprisingly (for me that is), my interest in Crowley was reignited in this episode. I liked his showdown w/Abbadon, and I think I can say I'm Team Crowley but I reserve the right to switch teams. Haha! I've been wanting Crowley dead for a long time now, but I enjoyed his scenes tonight. All of them were good, and I'm kind of happy he's free. Nothing much was happening w/him locked in the cellar/basement or wherever he was.
That end fight/conversation left me a little puzzled. I wasn't sure why Dean was leaving or what Sam meant when he said "that Dean being poison" or whatever wasn't the reason. It was not clear to me what they were trying to say, and Sam didn't finish his thought so, hopefully, it's touched on next week. At least they shook things up and had Dean leave this time.
Jensen did a good job at portraying Dean's sadness and grief about Kevin in the beginning of the episode. I also liked how wrecked Dean was at hearing Sam/Gadreel being tortured.
I felt bad for that puppy. I'm glad they didn't show that scene.
This actually completely summed it up for me. /loved/ sam's anger in the dream, some of the best acting of the episode. dean's acting for the first scene seemed kinda...don't know, wishy washy? Kind of fake. But overall, this episode was much better then the mid season finale, and I LOVE Crowley.
Seriously.. Guarantees a free virgin and all the entrails they can eat?? Why do I feel like crowley's is the first honest and deliverable political promise..um..ever?? I'd vote for him!
If he doesn't obey, I can easily see Metatron turn around to another angel and say the first ennemy against their new heaven is Gadreel cause he screwed the first. Seem like everyone hates him, Cass kind of prove his point when he almost jumped at him. He just want to be respected once again. Metatron is only one willing to help him so far...even if he's probably going to throw him first
I'm not sure he would've kill Kevin if Dean hadn't try to expulse him first without his consent. I understand Dean,s POV, but from Gadreel,s POV, it must've feel like an attack and make him see between Dean and Metatron, he had to choose Metatron,
But he has no guarantee that Metatron is actually going to do anything for him. He's killing angels and humans on blind faith. I'm not sure this is the best way to go about clearing his name or improving his reputation among his fellow angels!
He has no guarantee, but he doesn't have anything else, he's stuck against the wall. And like I said, I'm guessing Metatron's going to hurt and/or kill him if he walked away from him and Gadreel must fear it too. He saw Metatron has no problem killing angels who aren't perfect
Honestly, I don't know why Gadreel has aligned himself w/Metatron. He avoided Metatron in the alley until Metatron named him. It seems like Gadreel was just trying to hide from all angels. He bought Metatron's lies and has now gone on several killing sprees for him. When does it end for Gadreel? When is enough enough?
If he had let Abner live, then I would think there was a chance for him, but killing Abner crossed the line, IMO. He even asked how many more people/angels he had to kill, and Metatron basically said as many as I like until you prove your worthiness. There's no other reason behind these killings.
Metatron is twisted. Why would Gadreel even want to partner up w/him?
In the end, Gadreel killed what may have been his only friend in order to gain power and be thought of as a good, loyal angel. In other words he wants a reputation of being good by being evil. Kevin can be explained as Gadreel not wanting to be expelled. The other angel was part for ambition and part for revenge, but Abner was putting Gadreel's ambitions above the life of his friend. I can't see that as anything other than evil.
Wow, this is one of the few times I've agreed with Percy, but you hit it on the nail for me. Kill a friend for reasons of title advancement, you're /not/ a good guy. Conflicted or not.
Dean was leaving because all that he did was hurt everyone around him, so he had to go.
I think Sam was saying that the codependency was the reason all of this happened, not because Dean is poison.
I did feel like the scene was rushed.
I'm never going to be able to get past Crowley killing Sarah Blake. It's too bad, because I thought this episode was a much more effective use of him and showed various traits to him that made me care. Hard to believe the same write wrote both episodes.
Yeah . . . I was confused at first, but after giving it some thought I reached the same conclusion as you did.
As I was thinking about it, it dawned on me that when Sam and Dean reunite, Sam will tell Dean that the problem is not Dean being poison, etc., but Dean caring too much about him (Sam) and not being willing to let Sam die. Sam mentioned twice that he was willing to die. I don’t know if that was the suicidal ideation Carver “spoiled,” but it is pretty clear that Sam is willing to die if it comes to that. After tonight, I am even more convinced that Sam will die at the end of the series. This will complete Carver’s “maturity” arc w/Dean.
Now, I hate to think of Sam dying to serve Dean’s character arc. If Sam dies, I would like to think it does something for his character. I hope they can at least give him a heroic death where he dies killing a big bad or something.
Much better than the midseason finale and most of the season as a whole, but that's not hard considering how poor this season has been. Tell me again why Cas, who has brought people back to life before, didn't just bring back Kevin? Seems like it'd be the logical thing to do... but then again logic has been gone from the show for a while now.
Crowley was great, pretty much the best thing about the show at the moment. The scene in Sam's head was nice, again mainly cause of Crowley. And ugh at more brother angst, it has been done to death and is grating at this point. Just stop. And seriously, Abbadon is still alive? She's been uninteresting and boring since her introduction, just kill her please.
Misha Collins had some iffy parts where I kind of chuckled at him acting, same with Jensen at a couple times.
I don't want anyone to die at the end (we've seen that so much it's just overkill now). I think Sam has been sort of dead for most of his life as it is. I hope they're setting him up to get some of his strength back, and make his own choices.
Cas hasn't brought anyone back from the dead since he was given big angel powers in late season 5. I imagine he's significantly weakened now, especially with another angel's grace.
Good moments and bad ones. The good for me was the Abner/ Gadreel scene. Abner was a true reformed angel. He was very sympathetic. The scene with Crowley in Sam's head was great too. Crowley definitely stole the show in this episode. x Even though Gadreel is committing evil acts, I still feel sympathy for him. I can't say the same for Metatron who is the truly evil one on the show at the moment and I can't understand why Gad would team up with Metatron. Of course all the angels are easily manipulated, from Castiel onwards and they become like brainless donkeys when the carrot of heaven is dangled in front of their noses! x Dean's guilt over Kevin's death was overdone. Dean has had a whole life-time of guilt, he didn't need to have more piled on him. x Castiel as usual plays the useless third wheel and of course conveniently forgets his own malvagity in killing Samandriel, when he advises Dean on probbing around in Sam/Gad's head x Bonus point to Metatron. He flipped a switch in heaven so there won't be any more prophets. Yeah to that! x This ep was the Crowley show and he performed very well, but I'm so fed up with angsting brothers, and with sec charcters getting all the glory. Sam and Dean should be together fighting evil, not eternally torn apart to fuel Carver's hate of their co-dependency. I gave the episode OK.
Sam was deffinatly saying that it was Dean's willingness to keep saving Sam at the expense of everyone and anything that was the problem. Sam was talking about the bigger picture, about thier lives (his mainly as its the one mostly always at risk) being worth more than anyone elses or worth all the trouble their actions to save each other keeps causing. In the premier Sam tells Death he doesnt want anyone else to die because of him, he would rather die this is exactly what he meant. I think Sam was basically seeing through Dean's self pity and allowing him the time to see the bigger picture maybe, because Dean clearly doesnt get it and clearly wasnt in the right frame of mind to listen to reason. Honestly if Sam dies at the end of the series than thats ok, as long as he dies a hero and gets somekind of peace/happy ending hopefully with people who actually meant something to him and who he meant something to. Not people who were more to do with Dean/liked Dean better/Dean considered family. If theat ends up serving Dean's storyline than it wouldnt be anything new, Sam has been a plot device in Dean's major man pain storyline for years now.
Super ep, loved it all, Dean torn up over Kevin and the music, and the Crowley/Sam/Gadreel scene was so well acted. I am going to miss Jared playing 2 characters, he is so good at it. I was surprised when Gadreel killed his friend, I thought maybe he would do the right thing. The Crowley Abaddon showdown is going to be epic(I hope). Hate Dean left but this is going to set up a fun ep with Dean and Crowley working together. What a hoot that is going to be. ;)
It was ok, i'm kinda not really feeling all that interested in getting invested in storylines that Sam wont be part of so these plot/mythology heavy episodes are a bit of a waste of an hour for me. Best bits -Cowley -Crowley possessing Sam -inside Sam's head -the Gadreel stuff sort of Jared played it well but I'm not sure how much I will care when Jared isnt playign him. -Sam telling Dean to go (he didnt want to hear about Dean's self pity, he understood that Dean needed time to make peace with his new epic man pain and guilt so he let him go) I liked that Sam was pissed about the lying but was concentrating more on the fact that Dean doesnt get it, he just doesnt get Sam or get the bigger picture at all. It was only logical that Sam let Dean go work out his own shit while Sam tries to get to grips with his own. I foresee Dean's guilt being an issue in episode 12 and his attitude being addressed by Sam. There are deffinate signs that the relationship has changed/is changing. I hope it has because Sam needs people outside of Dean and he needs a life outside of Dean and hunting. I hope we are now in for an extensive delve into Sam and his self worth and his rebuilding because too long has Sam been without a purpose, without agency, without a little bit of happiness for himself that he hasnt been made to feel guilty for. -I find it interesting that Crowley will be working with Dean next week but has a deeper connection with Sam, I dont know if its just me but there is an understanding there or something. I wonder if Crowley will end up skrewing Dean over next week somehow? He is still a demon after all.
But if you think about it, Sam does make his own choices. This season, the choice was taken from him. That's why Dean didn't want to tell Sam immediately after the possession b/c he knew Sam might make the choice Dean would hate (i.e, expelling Ezekiel), and Dean wanted to make sure Sam was physically better before doing it.
So, I guess I've never seen Sam as not being strong or unable to choose for himself.
I guess we'll find out next week (maybe), but I don't think Sam thought Dean was having a pity party for himself. I do think Sam understood that Dean didn't really understand what the problem was, and it's not like Dean's poison to everyone around him. As you said, it was about the bigger picture. I'm guessing Sam will tell this to Dean when the reunite.
I thought this was a fantastic episode. I can't believe they're making me choose between Team Crowley and Team Abaddon, LOL! Love them both so much, but I have to say Crowley gets the edge for me this time. He was awesome.
I know that both brothers are hurting in the end, but I don't think the separation will last for long. Sam was justified in being angry, and Dean obviously wanted Sam to be angry with him, while also making sure Sam knows that he knows he has a problem. Dean blames himself and in typical Dean fashion needs everyone else to reinforce that thinking. Maybe the writers will actually allow Dean to work on his issues this time? I hope so.
Overall, I thought this, along with the previous episode, were the best episodes of SPN in a long time.
Sorry, but Castiel can't keep coming off as the litttle innocent angel to whom evertyhing is pardoned. He has been as evil as any demon on the show and the excuse of being manipulated haas run its course.
??? You can hate Cas all you want, and blame him for other things that he's done, but when he killed Samandriel he literally had no control over his actions. It's not an excuse, it's what canonically happened.
Pretty much, yes. Using this logic, Dean is evil for killing his cousin Gwen. Sam is evil for killing Kevin. Never mind that they didn't have any control over themselves.
I agree that Cas has basically gotten off scott free for any and all wrong doing on his part in the past but on the show when someone does something wrong the characters redemption is tied to if and when Dean choses they deserve it. In season 4 he did contribute to the starting of the apocolypse then was the first to balme Sam and never to my knowledge has never admitted his own guilt. In season 6 he twas trying to fix heaven even if he went about it the wrong way he didnt intentionally set out to do harm untill he let down Sam's wall but he really didnt do anything that needed Dean's forgiveness other be secretive. At the end of the season he released the Leviathan by accident then dissapeared, when he came back he fixed Sam who forgave him quickly but then had to wait to be absolved of guilt by Dean but I dont recal him doing anything to actually earn his redemption? In season 8 the only mistake he made was trusting Metatron, again this season his redemption arc has basically so far come in the form of Dean forgiving him but not actually paying penenace unless having to experience being human eating real food and having sex count. That could obviously change as the season goes on but it does seem that Cas doesnt do much to put things right (without the use of his magical healing powers) but waits around for Dean to absolve him fron his wrong doing.
I forsee that talk happening in episode 12, makes logical sense that everything comes to a head in that episode especially since I think Dean will be unjustifiably pissed at Garth to cover his own guilt.
I dont agree that Sam has never been allowed to make his own choices, I think his life in more recent years has been blighted by ouside influences taking his agency away but for the most part when Sam has been allowed to make choices they have always been shown to be the wrong ones by the show.
Knowledge is power, if Dean had told Sam the whole truth from the start Sam might not have just expelled Zeke either way it would have been Sam's descion a descion that should have been made regardless of whther Dean would like it or not. but Dean didnt trust Sam to not make that choice like you said he thought Sam would make a chice that he (Dean) didnt approve of so he took away the chocie completely. Its just a shame Sam in that very instance chose to blindly trust his brother hen his brother couldnt afford the dame decency to him.
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"Famous Final Scene" was a great way for classic rock to make a comeback.
ReplyDeleteBest episode in a while.
Well now I'm sad, but that was a great episode. Much better than the midseason finale. And wow, Jared was amazing at playing Gadreel and then switching back to Sam (or vice versa, depending on how they filmed it). He knocked it out of the park.
ReplyDeleteUgh at the tattoo being gone and Crowley possessing him, but the tattoo thing can be fixed as soon as possible. And I loved Crowley assuring Sam it wasn't his fault Kevin is dead, that it was Gadreel. And I also loved all the Cas/Crowley moments.
I hate that the boys broke up yet again, but this is only temporarily and after that screwed up situation, much needed. Plus, I know they'll reunite soon.
I loved this one so much!
I can't even enjoy halfway decent eps anymore. I'm always wondering when the floor will drop out.
ReplyDeletetears for Dean,cheering for Crowley,worry for Sammy & Cas in his trenchcoat. wots not to love? our little show that could is back with a BANG!!
ReplyDeleteWell, I was definitely surprised by how Sam was depossessed. I wasn't expecting Crowley to possess him so that was interesting to me and an unexpected twist. I liked the scene in Sam's mind w/Crowley and Gadreel. Sam looked really hot when he had Gadreel on the ground w/his foot on Gadreel's neck commanding that Gadreel get out. I also laughed when Sam referred to Gadreel as "psycho angel." Haha!
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly (for me that is), my interest in Crowley was reignited in this episode. I liked his showdown w/Abbadon, and I think I can say I'm Team Crowley but I reserve the right to switch teams. Haha! I've been wanting Crowley dead for a long time now, but I enjoyed his scenes tonight. All of them were good, and I'm kind of happy he's free. Nothing much was happening w/him locked in the cellar/basement or wherever he was.
That end fight/conversation left me a little puzzled. I wasn't sure why Dean was leaving or what Sam meant when he said "that Dean being poison" or whatever wasn't the reason. It was not clear to me what they were trying to say, and Sam didn't finish his thought so, hopefully, it's touched on next week. At least they shook things up and had Dean leave this time.
Jensen did a good job at portraying Dean's sadness and grief about Kevin in the beginning of the episode. I also liked how wrecked Dean was at hearing Sam/Gadreel being tortured.
I felt bad for that puppy. I'm glad they didn't show that scene.
This actually completely summed it up for me. /loved/ sam's anger in the dream, some of the best acting of the episode. dean's acting for the first scene seemed kinda...don't know, wishy washy? Kind of fake. But overall, this episode was much better then the mid season finale, and I LOVE Crowley.
ReplyDeleteSeriously.. Guarantees a free virgin and all the entrails they can eat?? Why do I feel like crowley's is the first honest and deliverable political promise..um..ever?? I'd vote for him!
The scene in Sam,s head was easily the best, way to go boy to kick him out!
ReplyDeleteBut I do feel kind of bad for Gadreel, he's so being used by Metatron, but he doesn't have much choice, he's all alone, poor guy
that explains the hoopty
ReplyDeleteIf he doesn't obey, I can easily see Metatron turn around to another angel and say the first ennemy against their new heaven is Gadreel cause he screwed the first. Seem like everyone hates him, Cass kind of prove his point when he almost jumped at him. He just want to be respected once again. Metatron is only one willing to help him so far...even if he's probably going to throw him first
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure he would've kill Kevin if Dean hadn't try to expulse him first without his consent. I understand Dean,s POV, but from Gadreel,s POV, it must've feel like an attack and make him see between Dean and Metatron, he had to choose Metatron,
But he has no guarantee that Metatron is actually going to do anything for him. He's killing angels and humans on blind faith. I'm not sure this is the best way to go about clearing his name or improving his reputation among his fellow angels!
ReplyDeleteHands down, best episode of the season.
ReplyDeleteLet's see if Supernatural will keep this quality up. Really good episode I still can't believe.
He has no guarantee, but he doesn't have anything else, he's stuck against the wall. And like I said, I'm guessing Metatron's going to hurt and/or kill him if he walked away from him and Gadreel must fear it too. He saw Metatron has no problem killing angels who aren't perfect
ReplyDeleteMan I am still in shock over this one. but well 2nd half begin!
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't know why Gadreel has aligned himself w/Metatron. He avoided Metatron in the alley until Metatron named him. It seems like Gadreel was just trying to hide from all angels. He bought Metatron's lies and has now gone on several killing sprees for him. When does it end for Gadreel? When is enough enough?
ReplyDeleteIf he had let Abner live, then I would think there was a chance for him, but killing Abner crossed the line, IMO. He even asked how many more people/angels he had to kill, and Metatron basically said as many as I like until you prove your worthiness. There's no other reason behind these killings.
Metatron is twisted. Why would Gadreel even want to partner up w/him?
In the end, Gadreel killed what may have been his only friend in order to gain power and be thought of as a good, loyal angel. In other words he wants a reputation of being good by being evil. Kevin can be explained as Gadreel not wanting to be expelled. The other angel was part for ambition and part for revenge, but Abner was putting Gadreel's ambitions above the life of his friend. I can't see that as anything other than evil.
ReplyDeleteYou stated that perfectly, Percy! That is exactly how I feel.
ReplyDeleteGadreel can't seek to improve his reputation by committing evil acts, and killing Abner was evil.
Wow, this is one of the few times I've agreed with Percy, but you hit it on the nail for me. Kill a friend for reasons of title advancement, you're /not/ a good guy. Conflicted or not.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite speeches during this series boiled down to 2 words: "Vote Crowley."
ReplyDeleteI thought it was awesome. Crowley made the episode for me.
ReplyDeleteDean was leaving because all that he did was hurt everyone around him, so he had to go.
ReplyDeleteI think Sam was saying that the codependency was the reason all of this happened, not because Dean is poison.
I did feel like the scene was rushed.
I'm never going to be able to get past Crowley killing Sarah Blake. It's too bad, because I thought this episode was a much more effective use of him and showed various traits to him that made me care. Hard to believe the same write wrote both episodes.
Yeah . . . I was confused at first, but after giving it some thought I reached the same conclusion as you did.
ReplyDeleteAs I was thinking about it, it dawned on me that when Sam and Dean reunite, Sam will tell Dean that the problem is not Dean being poison, etc., but Dean caring too much about him (Sam) and not being willing to let Sam die. Sam mentioned twice that he was willing to die. I don’t know if that was the suicidal ideation Carver “spoiled,” but it is pretty clear that Sam is willing to die if it comes to that. After tonight, I am even more convinced that Sam will die at the end of the series. This will complete Carver’s “maturity” arc w/Dean.
Now, I hate to think of Sam dying to serve Dean’s character arc. If Sam dies, I would like to think it does something for his character. I hope they can at least give him a heroic death where he dies killing a big bad or something.
Much better than the midseason finale and most of the season as a whole, but that's not hard considering how poor this season has been. Tell me again why Cas, who has brought people back to life before, didn't just bring back Kevin? Seems like it'd be the logical thing to do... but then again logic has been gone from the show for a while now.
ReplyDeleteCrowley was great, pretty much the best thing about the show at the moment. The scene in Sam's head was nice, again mainly cause of Crowley. And ugh at more brother angst, it has been done to death and is grating at this point. Just stop. And seriously, Abbadon is still alive? She's been uninteresting and boring since her introduction, just kill her please.
Misha Collins had some iffy parts where I kind of chuckled at him acting, same with Jensen at a couple times.
I liked this episode. I enjoyed Dan, Castiel & Crowley teaming up.
ReplyDeleteI don't want anyone to die at the end (we've seen that so much it's just overkill now). I think Sam has been sort of dead for most of his life as it is. I hope they're setting him up to get some of his strength back, and make his own choices.
ReplyDeleteThey'd already burned Kevin's body.
ReplyDeleteCas hasn't brought anyone back from the dead since he was given big angel powers in late season 5. I imagine he's significantly weakened now, especially with another angel's grace.
Great episode, really showed what dynamic character Crowley is and actually gave Jensen Ackles to flex his acting muscles on.
ReplyDeleteGood moments and bad ones. The good for me was the Abner/ Gadreel scene. Abner was a true reformed angel. He was very sympathetic. The scene with Crowley in Sam's head was great too. Crowley definitely stole the show in this episode.
ReplyDeletex
Even though Gadreel is committing evil acts, I still feel sympathy for him. I can't say the same for Metatron who is the truly evil one on the show at the moment and I can't understand why Gad would team up with Metatron. Of course all the angels are easily manipulated, from Castiel onwards and they become like brainless donkeys when the carrot of heaven is dangled in front of their noses!
x
Dean's guilt over Kevin's death was overdone. Dean has had a whole life-time of guilt, he didn't need to have more piled on him.
x
Castiel as usual plays the useless third wheel and of course conveniently forgets his own malvagity in killing Samandriel, when he advises Dean on probbing around in Sam/Gad's head
x
Bonus point to Metatron. He flipped a switch in heaven so there won't be any more prophets. Yeah to that!
x
This ep was the Crowley show and he performed very well, but I'm so fed up with angsting brothers, and with sec charcters getting all the glory.
Sam and Dean should be together fighting evil, not eternally torn apart to fuel Carver's hate of their co-dependency.
I gave the episode OK.
Oh yeah, loved the music..finally classic rock.
ReplyDeleteCan't you just enjoy the ep and stop looking for problems. It is only a show after all. ;)
ReplyDeleteSam was deffinatly saying that it was Dean's willingness to keep saving Sam at the expense of everyone and anything that was the problem. Sam was talking about the bigger picture, about thier lives (his mainly as its the one mostly always at risk) being worth more than anyone elses or worth all the trouble their actions to save each other keeps causing. In the premier Sam tells Death he doesnt want anyone else to die because of him, he would rather die this is exactly what he meant. I think Sam was basically seeing through Dean's self pity and allowing him the time to see the bigger picture maybe, because Dean clearly doesnt get it and clearly wasnt in the right frame of mind to listen to reason.
ReplyDeleteHonestly if Sam dies at the end of the series than thats ok, as long as he dies a hero and gets somekind of peace/happy ending hopefully with people who actually meant something to him and who he meant something to. Not people who were more to do with Dean/liked Dean better/Dean considered family. If theat ends up serving Dean's storyline than it wouldnt be anything new, Sam has been a plot device in Dean's major man pain storyline for years now.
Super ep, loved it all, Dean torn up over Kevin and the music, and the Crowley/Sam/Gadreel scene was so well acted. I am going to miss Jared playing 2 characters, he is so good at it. I was surprised when Gadreel killed his friend, I thought maybe he would do the right thing. The Crowley Abaddon showdown is going to be epic(I hope). Hate Dean left but this is going to set up a fun ep with Dean and Crowley working together. What a hoot that is going to be. ;)
ReplyDeleteIt was ok, i'm kinda not really feeling all that interested in getting invested in storylines that Sam wont be part of so these plot/mythology heavy episodes are a bit of a waste of an hour for me.
ReplyDeleteBest bits
-Cowley
-Crowley possessing Sam
-inside Sam's head
-the Gadreel stuff sort of Jared played it well but I'm not sure how much I will care when Jared isnt playign him.
-Sam telling Dean to go (he didnt want to hear about Dean's self pity, he understood that Dean needed time to make peace with his new epic man pain and guilt so he let him go) I liked that Sam was pissed about the lying but was concentrating more on the fact that Dean doesnt get it, he just doesnt get Sam or get the bigger picture at all. It was only logical that Sam let Dean go work out his own shit while Sam tries to get to grips with his own. I foresee Dean's guilt being an issue in episode 12 and his attitude being addressed by Sam. There are deffinate signs that the relationship has changed/is changing. I hope it has because Sam needs people outside of Dean and he needs a life outside of Dean and hunting. I hope we are now in for an extensive delve into Sam and his self worth and his rebuilding because too long has Sam been without a purpose, without agency, without a little bit of happiness for himself that he hasnt been made to feel guilty for.
-I find it interesting that Crowley will be working with Dean next week but has a deeper connection with Sam, I dont know if its just me but there is an understanding there or something. I wonder if Crowley will end up skrewing Dean over next week somehow? He is still a demon after all.
But if you think about it, Sam does make his own choices. This season, the choice was taken from him. That's why Dean didn't want to tell Sam immediately after the possession b/c he knew Sam might make the choice Dean would hate (i.e, expelling Ezekiel), and Dean wanted to make sure Sam was physically better before doing it.
ReplyDeleteSo, I guess I've never seen Sam as not being strong or unable to choose for himself.
I guess we'll find out next week (maybe), but I don't think Sam thought Dean was having a pity party for himself. I do think Sam understood that Dean didn't really understand what the problem was, and it's not like Dean's poison to everyone around him. As you said, it was about the bigger picture. I'm guessing Sam will tell this to Dean when the reunite.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was a fantastic episode. I can't believe they're making me choose between Team Crowley and Team Abaddon, LOL! Love them both so much, but I have to say Crowley gets the edge for me this time. He was awesome.
ReplyDeleteI know that both brothers are hurting in the end, but I don't think the separation will last for long. Sam was justified in being angry, and Dean obviously wanted Sam to be angry with him, while also making sure Sam knows that he knows he has a problem. Dean blames himself and in typical Dean fashion needs everyone else to reinforce that thinking. Maybe the writers will actually allow Dean to work on his issues this time? I hope so.
Overall, I thought this, along with the previous episode, were the best episodes of SPN in a long time.
I agree. I'm definitely going to re-watch 9.09 and this one as soon as I can.
ReplyDeleteThis feels like the Supernatural that kept me alive when I was depressed! 9x09 and 9x10 are definitely in my top 10 from seasons 6-9.
ReplyDeleteCas didn't kill Samandriel maliciously. He was being mind controlled.
ReplyDeleteGreat episode. I still want to learn more about Metatron plans, btw I like they finish Sam/Gadreel arc.
ReplyDeleteI don't look for problems, they show up. And I know it's just TV.
ReplyDeleteThat's where SPN has been since season 3. I just take the good and dread the rest.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but Castiel can't keep coming off as the litttle innocent angel to whom evertyhing is pardoned. He has been as evil as any demon on the show and the excuse of being manipulated haas run its course.
ReplyDelete???
ReplyDeleteYou can hate Cas all you want, and blame him for other things that he's done, but when he killed Samandriel he literally had no control over his actions. It's not an excuse, it's what canonically happened.
Pretty much, yes. Using this logic, Dean is evil for killing his cousin Gwen. Sam is evil for killing Kevin. Never mind that they didn't have any control over themselves.
ReplyDeleteIt was Awesome!!!
ReplyDeleteI agree that Cas has basically gotten off scott free for any and all wrong doing on his part in the past but on the show when someone does something wrong the characters redemption is tied to if and when Dean choses they deserve it.
ReplyDeleteIn season 4 he did contribute to the starting of the apocolypse then was the first to balme Sam and never to my knowledge has never admitted his own guilt.
In season 6 he twas trying to fix heaven even if he went about it the wrong way he didnt intentionally set out to do harm untill he let down Sam's wall but he really didnt do anything that needed Dean's forgiveness other be secretive. At the end of the season he released the Leviathan by accident then dissapeared, when he came back he fixed Sam who forgave him quickly but then had to wait to be absolved of guilt by Dean but I dont recal him doing anything to actually earn his redemption?
In season 8 the only mistake he made was trusting Metatron, again this season his redemption arc has basically so far come in the form of Dean forgiving him but not actually paying penenace unless having to experience being human eating real food and having sex count. That could obviously change as the season goes on but it does seem that Cas doesnt do much to put things right (without the use of his magical healing powers) but waits around for Dean to absolve him fron his wrong doing.
I agree that is something that Cas can not be blames for
ReplyDeleteI forsee that talk happening in episode 12, makes logical sense that everything comes to a head in that episode especially since I think Dean will be unjustifiably pissed at Garth to cover his own guilt.
ReplyDeleteI dont agree that Sam has never been allowed to make his own choices, I think his life in more recent years has been blighted by ouside influences taking his agency away but for the most part when Sam has been allowed to make choices they have always been shown to be the wrong ones by the show.
ReplyDeleteKnowledge is power, if Dean had told Sam the whole truth from the start Sam might not have just expelled Zeke either way it would have been Sam's descion a descion that should have been made regardless of whther Dean would like it or not. but Dean didnt trust Sam to not make that choice like you said he thought Sam would make a chice that he (Dean) didnt approve of so he took away the chocie completely. Its just a shame Sam in that very instance chose to blindly trust his brother hen his brother couldnt afford the dame decency to him.
ReplyDeleteWhat's up w/Garth in that episode? Are Sam and Castiel still supposed to "save" Dean in an upcoming episode?
ReplyDeleteWho said Sam is evil for killing Kevin? No one should say that. If they have no control, they had no control, end of story.
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