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POLL : What did you think of The Walking Dead - Indifference?

4 Nov 2013

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104 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl4 November 2013 at 03:01

    That was a great episode, but wow am I pissed at Rick for kicking Carol out. I hope Daryl punches him when he gets back.

    ReplyDelete
  2. CJ4 November 2013 at 03:08

    It was the right call as tough as it was. I hope she doesnt betray the group now

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  3. klutzy_girl4 November 2013 at 03:09

    I hope she does out of spite now, tbh.

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  4. CJ4 November 2013 at 03:14

    i'd hope not. I was just starting to like her and plus if she betrays the group, more people are gonna die

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  5. John Callihoo4 November 2013 at 03:18

    perhaps that's what the plan is we all think it will be the governor but what if it's carol

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  6. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 03:18

    It was a tough call but the right one. If Tyreese would've found out he would've killed her and it would've caused tension amongst the group. Remember klutzy_girl what Daryl said...."I want to put a bullet into the person who did it". I wonder how he'll react when he finds out it was Carol. Rick said that she'd find another group which worries me. What if the group she joins is The Governor's group?

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  7. CJ4 November 2013 at 03:26

    i think carol might team up with the governor. We know he's gonna make a revenge attack on the prison and i remember reading something back in the summer that said someone that rick trusts will betray him so that makes sense

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  8. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 03:38

    Yeah. Sure. She would join the man who killed her savior (Andrea) and the brother of her best friend. Almost as likely as that she will return to the prison with a flying elephant.

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  9. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 03:41

    Sure thing. Carol and Lori's ghost will attack the prison together. They want to destroy everything they love on this world.

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  10. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 03:47

    Daryl will be thankful to Rick for not sending her to Tyreese.

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  11. CP4 November 2013 at 03:49

    I don't blame Rick for kicking Carol out. Carol was so cold this episode. It's hard to trust someone to watch out for you & others when they likely won't hesitate to kill you as soon as you are a possible danger to them and may not even try to help you first.


    When you're part of a group part of the deal is looking out for each other to the end, otherwise the group will fall apart or just become a burden.


    Also, Tyreese would have so killed her. The way she is now, she might just well be better off on her own. She won't need to worry about anyone but herself.

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  12. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 03:51

    As I was watching the opening I was having an Old Yeller moment...
    I thought Rick was gonna take Carol out behind the proverbial barn and kill her. Out on a mission and she dies who would ever know?


    Boy who are these idiots Rick and Carol encountered and do you really want them as part of your group? They seem rather inept. I would never have given them 2 guns and a working watch! I guess Rick was okay with parting with near priceless necessities or reclaiming the supplies off their corpses, but I would have avoided the middle step and just not given supplies to them! XD


    I love Daryl's no time for Bob's pity party!
    People who do not deal well with guilt and stress or cannot let go of things have little hope in TWD world! Is a bottle of liquor worth death? Um, no! Bob is a mess too.


    Little Lizzie is 100% Grade A crazy!
    She may not be weak, but she is completely wacky for walkers.


    Back to Carol...
    I honestly can understand her thought process that the limited sick should be killed to keep the rest uninfected, faulty as it is. However, if you have a council and act outside of it you need to face consequences. If your actions were murder there should be SEVERE consequences!


    I think Carol got off way too easy. I would have killed her or let her be killed while scavenging. She knows too much of how the prison operates and has already shown she has no qualms killing anyone from the prison community. She makes bad decisions and cannot be trusted. She should not have been left alive.

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  13. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 03:51

    Last season I would've agreed with you but Carol's changed. Her demeanor's changed. Her philosophy now is to do whatever it takes to stay alive. She murdered two innocent survivors. If she's willing to stick a knife into Karen's back to save her own then why do you believe she wouldn't be willing to join The Governor? Also has Carol ever even seen The Governor? She never went to Woodbury or anything. It's possible she saw him when they attacked the prison but in her eyes The Governor could've been anyone there. She could run into The Governor and not even know it was him.

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  14. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 03:53

    If you have an opinion that's fine but there's no need to insult everyone's comments with sarcastic moronic comments of your own. Just click the vote down button and leave it at that.

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  15. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 03:56

    Not to mention in a created world it is much easier for characters to be separated and then turn up again out of the blue.


    Carol showed she did not care about the accepted order or rules of their new society and has no issues with killing part of their community. Despite finding an inner strength, she is broken and has bad judgement.

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  16. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 03:56

    Probably there are not so many people with just one eye and Carol did it NOT to save herself. She did it to save the people she loves. She did it to save the two girls she has to care for. It's never gonna happen that Carol betrays Rick, Daryl or Glenn

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  17. David Fischer4 November 2013 at 03:59

    Rick made the right call. Carol can't be trusted. Going behind peoples' backs and committing murder is not how things are done in a group. Even Shane didn't murder members of their own group in cold blood.

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  18. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:00

    I do not see the possibility to take it serious when people claim Carol would have done this very bad things for herself. She promised to a dieing man to care for two girls. If anyone believes she would join someone who is a danger for this people I can just shake my head.

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  19. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 04:02

    I can honestly say this. I'm sure that I wasn't the only one that expected Carol to pull out her knife and try to kill Rick at the end of the episode. When you watch Carol now you see someone who's losing her humanity. The Carol I see now is the Shane I saw in Season 2. She's willing to do anything to stay alive and protect those she cares about. Just as Shane would've done anything to protect Lori and Carl (such as betray his best friend) she would do anything to protect Lizzie and Mika. This isn't the same Carol we saw in the first few seasons she's different.

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  20. nobody4 November 2013 at 04:03

    Banishing Carol was the only response that would end in one or more deaths. The Governor murdered Andrea (Carol's friend) the worst way possible by feeding her to a "walker". Carol could be captured by the Governor and held prisoner, but she would never join him willingly even out of spite (the Atlanta Group is her family). As to Rick's decision being right or wrong............I will leave that to the conscious of the individual viewer to decide. Bob is worthless and Daryl should have left him behind as well. His selfish actions lead to someone dying in the first episode and he reached for his gun on Daryl.......bye bye "Bob the medic"! Now what will Rick tell the group and how will Tyreese deL with the news? 4 THE DEAD TO KEEP WALKING, I am Nobody!!!

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  21. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 04:04

    Yeah she made that promise then she was willing to allow his own daughter to shove a knife into his head.

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  22. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:05

    The people Carol wants to protect are: The two girls and every member of the original group. The Governor would surely want to help her with this quest.

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  23. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 04:06

    Every member? So David and Karen weren't members of the group?

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  24. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 04:07

    Exactly.

    Some people compare Carl killing the kid to Carol killing the infected, but they are not remotely similar!

    Carl made a split second decision within an eminent life or death moment . Carol with forethought and premeditation planned the deaths, then carried it out coldly. She did not even consult the ruling council she was part of on the matter!



    It would be the difference between first degree murder and manslaughter

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  25. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:08

    ORIGINAL group! Where David and Karen part of season 1 or 2? Daryl, Rick and Glenn became her new family when she lost her daughter.

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  26. CP4 November 2013 at 04:10

    Wanted to say for Carol: It would have been okay for her to do what she did if she'd come to the decision with the group, and it was the last resort (as in, they'd confirmed no chance for survival).


    Yes, the group would have said no, but that's being part of a group. I get wanting to protect the healthy people, but if you want to take matters into your own hands, the only way to do that is be on your own.

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  27. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 04:11

    So if it were say Glenn and Maggie who were the only ones sick do you think she would've done the same thing?

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  28. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:12

    Karen and David are not "anyone from the prison". She just knew them for some months and they meaned nothing to her compared to Daryl or Rick.

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  29. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:15

    For sure she would NEVER do this and even would sacrifice herself for both. The people who were in the prison before the end of season 3 are her family. When the Woodbury-people came out of this bus she looked at them as a danger.

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  30. Linlighthouse4 November 2013 at 04:16

    Brilliant episode! From my notes:
    1. Michonne smiles! Love it when she does that.
    2. Hahaha, zombie falls down the stairs.
    3. Sam and Ana are sweeties.
    4. Rick is impressed with Carol's shoulder setting skills.
    5. Rick begins to ask Sam the three questions, starting with "How many have you killed?"
    6. Bob tells people to look for anything "cillin," but those will not kill flu viruses. They should be looking for Tamiflu.
    7. I am so on Rick's side. Carol's actions, not just the killing, but the not sharing with the council, were mutinous. Add that to the way Carol tried to steer Rick's son to her side by telling him to lie for her, and it's easy to understand why Rick couldn't trust her anymore.
    8. The Talking Dead was sooo much better this week. Last week, the ridiculous Marilyn Manson. This week, Gillian Jacobs (who is brilliant, who knew?) and some wrestler, Chris Jericho, who is pretty smart himself. I liked how he brought up that the whole episode was about letting go. Michonne, anger over the Governor, Tyreese, the weeds, Bob, that bag of goodies, and, finally, Rick letting go of Carol, which, as I say, I totally support.

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  31. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:17

    Yeah. Like Maggie allowed Carl to shoot into Lori's head. The only difference is that Carl was already strong.

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  32. Timbolio3284 November 2013 at 04:19

    Maggie showed major emotion after that incident. Carol showed none but regardless it's a television show and arguing is pointless. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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  33. Linlighthouse4 November 2013 at 04:20

    Finally, someone agrees with me. It's not whether it was wrong or right to kill the people, but she took it upon herself when the rest of the council was RIGHT THERE. And so was Tyreese, by the way. She didn't think THAT one through.

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  34. Debsterforever4 November 2013 at 04:21

    That's it. Carol would only "join" the Governor if she would see the possibility to do what she asked Andrea to do.

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  35. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 04:21

    An irrelevant point.

    If you accept people into your group you should not be killing them without provocation. You may never be as close to them, but any sane person would assume murdering them as they sleep is unacceptable.

    The truth of the matter is Carol has lost her humanity and has no problem killing - both the dead and the living! The death of a living human needs to still have meaning in a society. Which is what the prison has become.

    There are rules and a council for matters of importance she should have consulted. However, she acted out on her own.

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  36. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 04:23

    It was simple First Degree Murder - premeditated murder.

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  37. CP4 November 2013 at 04:25

    For the Glenn and Maggie example: I'm pretty sure if she thought she could stop the disease in its tracks she would have killed Original group members. Once it spread like crazy after that it would be kinda pointless. But if it was only 2 people? I could definitely see her doing it to protect the girls, Rick, Daryl, etc. Sacrifice 2 that were dying anyway, and she wouldn't have to lose anyone else.

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  38. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 04:26

    6. Is Tamiflu used for animals?


    8. Oh my god yes!
    Last week was just painful to watch! So bad even Chris was joking about just how bad a guest Manson was! XD

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  39. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 04:31

    Bob has been part of two groups and was the only person to survive both.... and he appears to have a bit of a death wish that comes and goes. Could he have been sabotaging the other groups in a similar way the prison saboteur has been feeding rats to the walkers?


    Lizzie has been a prime suspect for sure, but maybe Bob is behind it after all. PTSD ,guilt, depression and a death wish make me wonder if he is responsible more and more.

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  40. nobody4 November 2013 at 04:34

    Best point made so far poster/viewer! Carol joins the Governor to get close............enough to kill him! As for Carol's behavior; with surviving for so long and all that she has lost (her husband, daughter, and Atlanta group friends) her "Empathy/Compassion" has shut down. I not ready to write Carol off as "Evil or Crazy" yet..........now Carol as a "Angel of Death", I can have that conversation! 4 THE DEAD TO KEEP WALKING, I remain Nobody!!!

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  41. nobody4 November 2013 at 04:37

    You and I are on the same page with your last post/comment. Bob and Lizzie were my "Prime Suspects" since episode 1 this season. 4 DARYL'S AIM TO STAY TRUE, I will be Nobody!!!

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  42. lala24 November 2013 at 04:53

    I loved it! Great episode.
    I think the title is key. Carol is simply indifferent to decisions that should always be struggles. It should never be easy to kill living human beings and feel absolutely no regret afterwards. For all Carol knew, they were not deathly ill and didn't carry the virus. Maybe Karen just had a cold like Andrea did last season. We don't know b/c Carol didn't wait to find out.
    I actually understand her logic, but she should have raised her concerns w/the others. She could have tried to convince people to contain the disease now before it spread (which it did anyway), but she didn't. She took it upon herself to murder them as they slept and then burn their bodies. That was cold! Those people were quarantined. When they voluntarily locked themselves away, they had an expectation to not be murdered on a whim. She could have at least waited until they succumbed to the illness.
    I like Carol but her actions were too rash. You can't be part of group if you behave like that.

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  43. ShatteredOne4 November 2013 at 05:25

    Please I hope that doesn't happen. I think Rick should've left it up for a council vote, but there was the possibility Tyreese would've killed Carol regardless. In a way, Rick was saving her life and giving her a shot.

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  44. ShatteredOne4 November 2013 at 05:28

    Great episode. Didn't expect Rick to banish Carol but I understand why he did it. He probably should've left it up for a council vote, but Tyreese or someone would've likely killed her. In my mind, Rick gave Carol at least a chance to survive. It's not like he left her absolutely stranded, he gave her a shot.


    Glad Daryl, Michonne, and Tyreese survived, but damn it Bob. I still think you're the leading candidate for the mole for the Governor (if there is one, which seems likely), but you're a damn weak man. Norman Reedus did well in that scene in displaying absolute disgust and withholding the urge to just shove Bob down to the zombies. Hopefully we'll see Tyreese getting out of his funk soon cause he's not living up to his awesome comic book potential.

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  45. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 05:36

    That's what should have been done and the council should have voted her banished or to go on every high danger mission until she was dead etc..

    However, I think Rick either felt the council may not have the stomach for actually banishing one of their own or he wanted to remove any sense of guilt from them by taking it on himself. The latter is somewhat similar to what Carol did, but the major differences being Rick did it to Carol's face and of course let Carol live.

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  46. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 05:43

    I could be wrong, and I suspect many will not agree with me, but I think Rick knew he was going to leave Carol out there before they left the prison. He seemed to be resigned to doing something he did not want to do. At first I thought he was going to kill her, but then he was packing a lot of supplies for one run. More like packing what one person might need to survive on their own.

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  47. ShatteredOne4 November 2013 at 05:51

    Rick is supremely good at that, taking on the guilt and blame of anything and everything around him. It's who he is. It's kind of his way of protecting everyone in the group from having to make these kind of decisions and living with them.

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  48. ShatteredOne4 November 2013 at 05:55

    I agree with you, well on the fact that he knew something was going to be done with Carol out there. The way he looked at all the knives definitely gave me the sense that killing her was not off the table. But how their conversation went through the episode would determine what the result would be.


    I saw someone compare Carol and Shane, how they do what may be good for the group in the big picture but not always in the best ways. But the main distinction between Carol and Shane is that Carol thought through her actions a lot and defended them intelligently. I think that's what Rick saw, he was able to see Carol's side of it, even if he didn't agree with it.

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  49. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 06:09

    I see Carol and Shane as two sides of the same coin really.


    Shane acted on impulse and may have had more selfish reasons..... Carol planned it all out before acting and may have been thinking of the group (arguably).... but both simply dismissed rules of propriety and what is morally right. Both knew what they did (or maybe how they did it in Carol's case) was wrong and both planned to hide what they'd done until they were confronted.

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  50. N274 November 2013 at 06:09

    Maybe I´m a little slow on this, but I don´t really get the point of the blood mark on the door tot hte backyard where Karen and Nick were killed. I believed it was meant to show that the person who did it was either having his or her ahdn hurt OR being probably a child concerning the height. Is this something left undealt with or do I misinterpret something.

    Aside from that, I like that they are at least characterizing Carol believeably, although I don´t like that Carol, so far, seems to be leaving the group.

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  51. DarqueMode4 November 2013 at 06:18

    Something I just thought of when thinking about Bob....
    The going theory is that the infected blood is contagious and getting an sick person's fluids or the walker 2.0 blood on you is a death sentence. Because of that some think Hershell will be infected because of Dr. S spitting up blood on him, but I'm not so sure it is contagious to everyone.


    Carol knifed her two infected victims and left bloody hand prints on the door way etc... She in all likelihood got their blood on her and was never infected. So I think we can assume some people are immune. At least some people do not catch it from simple contact.


    That is a bit ironic since Carol being healthy after killing Karen and David means she should have never killed them in the first place.

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  52. nobody4 November 2013 at 06:51

    HOLY $#!t! Did Carol lie? Did Carol kill Karen and David, or just help the killer to conceal their identity? Where am I going with this? 1)The kids naming the "walkers" at the fence. 2)The rat feeding at the fence. 3)Lizzies view that "walkers" are people, just different. 4) Lizzie upset over "Jeff the Walker and other walkers" dead (again), while expressing no remorse for the death of her father. 5) The bloody hand print being the height of a child. 6) Finally the conversation Lizzie had with Carol, and Carol responding indifferent and apathy ie: "I'm not your mom!" and "when danger (Carol didn't say WALKERS) is near you run as fast as you can....". What am I saying here.........the shocking reveal will be Lizzie killed Karen and David as revenge for them clearing the fences ie: killing again "Jeff the Walker and fellow walkers" plus her little sister being sick! Carol discovered Lizzie after the killing was done and tried to cover it up to protect Lizzie even going as far as taking the blame for the deaths. That's my theory and I'm sticking to! What do you think? 4 MICHONNE'S KATANNA TO STAY SHARP, I will be Nobody!!!

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  53. N274 November 2013 at 08:33

    I personally deeply hope there´s more to the story, than Carol killed the two characters and leaves the group and probably the show.

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  54. Johnny Cage4 November 2013 at 13:11

    This is a quote from an article,WHICH i happen to agree with very much:

    "I’m kind of Team Carol on this one. If she could have stopped the spread
    of the disease (and thereby saved more lives) by killing two people
    that were going to die in a few hours anyway, it was worth a shot. You
    know, the whole greater good and all."

    Anbody who agrees that Carol deserved to be thrown out can SUCK IT!!She did what needs to be done!!.
    Many of you would have done the same.Its called self-preservation instinct ,and the preservation of the group.

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  55. Linlighthouse4 November 2013 at 15:36

    I don't think Tamiflu would be used for animals. I remember everybody bothering their doctors for Tamiflu during the bird flu epidemic. This does seem like a flu, with everybody coughing, so I don't see how antibiotics would touch it.

    I laughed when Chris thanked his guests this week for being lucid. And I was really pleased with Gillian as a guest. She sure didn't Britta anything :)

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  56. Linlighthouse4 November 2013 at 16:38

    McBride responded to that in an interview. She said that Carol killed them.

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  57. LittleDreamer4 November 2013 at 18:06

    Rick made the right call. Chances are Tyreese would have killed her and that the others won't trust her anymore. She's better off on her own.

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  58. Mary4 November 2013 at 18:08

    The "behind the scenes" footage I'd REALLY like to see is whatever hit the fan in the Producer's booth after (and very likely during) Marilyn Manson's surreal/muddled/WTF appearance on Talking Dead last week. Not sure if it's a "fault" thing so much as the show operating at its typically brisk, almost frenetic pace; and Manson operating in extreeeeme, meditative slow-mo. Whatever it was, it became sort of uncomfortable to watch. I've never seen Chris Hardwick seem so on edge. This week's guests were able to mirror his pace and style much more successfully.

    Regarding "Indifference," I could understand the logic behind Carol's actions (viewed from an apocalyptic perspective, not judged by current societal standards) -- yet I could also understand Rick's stunned and wary reaction to this person he's known for so long. I think the scene with the young couple set up a nice tension between Rick's and Carol's attitudes and leadership styles -- it was so evident that they had become completely out of sync with one another. I do think Rick taking the "banishment" decision totally upon himself (vs. asking for a council vote) is somewhat hypocritical in that it mirrors Carol's own "I'll do this my way" actions. Though I also understand that Rick may have done this for Carol's own safety, knowing how violently Tyreese would likely react. I thought that handing over the watch in the final scene was a powerful way to shorthand the conflict -- initially, it seems like a sentimental gesture between old friends; and then Carol lets it be known that the watch was simply a link to her old, weak self that she "should have gotten rid of" a long time ago. Ouch -- such coldness and "indifference."

    Melissa McBride has been one of my very favorite TWD characters. Witnessing her evolution has been amazing, and watching her drive off alone felt like a gut-punch I hadn't quite seen coming. I hope they bring her back in a surprising way -- or perhaps use her as the core character in their spin-off. Maybe Daryl Dixon could shuttle back and forth between both shows. :)

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  59. lala24 November 2013 at 20:35

    I also thought he was going to kill her!

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  60. Stuart Cooper4 November 2013 at 20:39

    I think that rick is likely to say that carols dead or tell them the truth that she killed them and she ran. Daryl would look for her otherwise. I reckon she will run into the governor, now if she joins them or if he uses her to get at the prisoners we will have to see.

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  61. Dor Fiderer4 November 2013 at 22:35

    After watching this episode, I decided to stop watching the show. I am so speechless and furious right now about this absurd move to kick Carol out. The truth is, that watching this show always felt like the writers had improvised. It seemed like they cried out for some action between the lead roles so they made this - kicking out one of the most efficient member of the group, by a decision made by one unstable lack of consideration man. I mean, it really looked ridiculous on the screen, in a way that if I was Melissa McBride, I would have been offended. After reading this it feels like I didn't express myself as I wanted, but it's really hard to as I'm really angry about this. I know that comments like "don't watch the show then" or "why did you keep watching it anyway?" are probably coming, but I'm writing this because I want to share my feelings and see if someone feels the same. Thanks for reading anyway.

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  62. Linlighthouse5 November 2013 at 01:05

    Darn, I think they've removed all the videos of the rat-feeding, but someone mentioned the hand that was shown looked like it belonged to a white, adult, male. If that's the case Bob and Lizzie are in the clear.

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  63. dunmif5 November 2013 at 02:18

    hey nobody, I got a question: What's the significance of the "4 the dead to keep walking, I am Nobody" line you put at the end of your every post? Just curious

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  64. nobody5 November 2013 at 02:52

    It's me personalizing my sign - off with a little style and "Nous"! I have a different sign - off for every site/series/film/character! You are the second person to ask, Thanks! 4 THE WALKERS TO KEEP BITING, I remain Nobody!!!

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  65. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:02

    Absolutely awesome episode. Such a great character piece on both Rick and Carol. I love shows push the boundaries of characters evolution (and what evolution here!) and I love when they make us so uncomfortable with what we are watching that I don't even know who to root for. I understood where Carol was coming from (in an apocalyptic context, not modern society context) and why she did it, but I could also understand Rick. He tried to let it go, he really did. And it was interesting to watch that scene with the couple in which they were so misaligned with one another in how to proceed. It shows how far they've both come. I also love that his was how the show gave Rick his leadership back. This was his way of taking it. I have no idea what will happen next with Carol or with Rick but I can't wait! This show is amazing!

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  66. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:03

    Attention, spoilers coming ahead. Spoilers. Stop reading now if you don't want to.












































    Melissa McBride is not out of the show. We will continue to see Carol's journey and she will probably be reunited with the group (this is not a spoiler, just a guess). Give it a chance and don't give up yet, she wasn't killed off!

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  67. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:05

    I agree, I think Rick will lie. But the problem is that she is bound to show up sooner rather than later so that will bite him in the ass

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  68. Dor Fiderer5 November 2013 at 11:06

    I hope you're right. Any reliable source for this?

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  69. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:07

    Excellent comment. I agree with your entire second paragraph, especially that I can also understand the logic behind both characters, which is what makes it so great, and that the couple scene showcased how misaligned they were with one another.

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  70. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:08

    I don't think I can say there was a right call to be made there. The Tyreese point is kind of mute because nobody would have found out if Rick wouldn't tell on her. It's like he said, the problem was that he couldn't be around her anymore. In a way, it shows how much Rick still lives according the old world's morals.

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  71. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:10

    Maybe, yes. I felt bad for Carol and I think that what she did was justifiable in a post apocalyptic context. However, I understand Rick too. He couldn't trust her anymore. Whose to tell him that if Carl wasn't sick she wouldn't have killed him too? It's a very interesting dilemma here and very thought provoking and to think there is a simple solution to it is naive.

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  72. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:12

    I thought the Rick-Carol plot dominated the episode so much that I kind of forgot to comment about the others, but I agree with you that Tyreese is, so far, an unlikable character. I can't relate with him and he seems too violent for my taste. As for Bob, I thin they're leading up to something that is not a Zack kind of death, so we shall see, I like that governor plant theory.

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  73. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:13

    Maybe, but I still believe that Rick made that trip to figure her out and to figure himself out as well. I think he had that as a backup plan but I think he tried giving her a genuine chance and see if he could stand being around her and bringing her back to his kids. I don't think he had made up his mind before leaving, even though he definitely knew that was a strong possibility.

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  74. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:16

    I agree with this a lot. And I think the show wanted us to make the parallels hence the mentions of Shane in this episode. It also points out that Rick, despite all his evolution, still hasn't let go of his morals from the old world. In many ways, the fact that Carol refuses to acknowledge the existence of Sofia and refuses to let the other kids call her Mom, symbolizes the loss of those morals - she is not restricted by those relations anymore and she doesn't have to be a mother figure to anyone and to see herself reflected on that. Rick, on the other hand, who almost lost himself last year and almost lost Carl in the process (because Carl was becoming a mini reflection of Rick himself), has that hold/connection with the old world and cannot see himself being an accessory to what Carol did.

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  75. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:20

    I think there is no easy solution and no easy side to pick here. Maybe had she waited it would have been too late and it would have already spread by then. We don't know and Carol doesn't know either, that's the point. But then there is the other side of how could see be a part of a group like that. I think she should have never admitted it to Rick. Rick would live in doubt but he would put the thought away as long as she didn't confirm it to him and he certainly wouldn't have banished her like that. By telling Rick, she forced him to live with it and to allow her to be a part of the community with his permission. Had Carol stayed and done something harsh like this, Rick would be responsible for it!

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  76. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:22

    I didn't even remember the previous plot of Carol using Carl to hide something from Rick before. It only adds to this, that's for sure. I cannot share the idea of being 100% on the side of either of them. I understand both sides honestly and can't make a call here.

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  77. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:23

    I agree with you that the decision of judging Rick's decision as right or wrong is really a tossup that depends on each individual viewer. I reject the notion that the answer is easy regardless of which way we go though.

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  78. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:24

    You're really after Bob, aren't you? First accusing him of being the Governor plant and now of being the saboteur for having a death wish. Ahah. But I like both of your theories. I actually prefer this one because it would have him exposed to considerably less risk.

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  79. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:25

    I didn't think about this possibility but it would definitely be an amazing tie with Andrea's story, for sure.

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  80. LittleDreamer5 November 2013 at 11:28

    I just feel like even if Rick haven't send her packing, if this would have played out differently, most scenarios would have probably still ended with Carol not being a part of the group anymore.
    If Rick had returned with her without telling the truth, that secret would have eaten him alive. I don't think he could have remained silent about this for too long.

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  81. DarqueMode5 November 2013 at 11:28

    Ha! XD
    Well the first one was less to do with Bob and more about I wanted the Governor to be behind it all somehow!
    Oh well...

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  82. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:29

    I still dispute the notion that there is a right call here. The fact that you bring up first degree murder and manslaughter, which are definitions and ideas that only make sense in modern society and not in a post apocalyptic world, is the problem for me, because you still act with conceptions that should not be applied in the world they are living in. I think Carol could not be trusted, so I understand Rick. But on the other hand, I understand why Carol did what she did. Sure, it is wrong by modern society perspective, but when human life is basically going extinct and you have to fight for survival like that, wouldn't it be worth to let go of 2 that would probably die anyway and save many? I cannot answer it simply.

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  83. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:31

    I think you're too harsh on Carol. The idea that she could have gone to the council is ludicrous. She might as well let go of the idea to begin with because she knew there was no chance they would go for it. Also, Carol could never have been killed by Rick. That would be Rick taking matters into his own hands which was what he was punishing her for exactly.

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  84. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:32

    We all know that going to the council would be:
    a) a sure NO, they would never go for that!
    b) she would be poorly viewed even for proposing her


    She knew that by going to the council, it would be the same as not doing it. Pure and simple.

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  85. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:33

    I still dispute the notion that you an claim that first degree murder is something that exists in that world in those circumstances. I don't think it's applicable...

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  86. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:33

    I understand Carol's actions but I think that is besides the point of judging them. I do however wonder if she would have been able to do it if it was someone like Glenn that was sick back then.

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  87. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:34

    I think this is too much of a simplistic view. Besides, the Tyreese point is mute because he wouldn't have known as long as Rick wouldn't tell.

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  88. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:36

    That is too much of a simplistic view in my opinion. Rick did what he thought was right and I can understand him. Can you imagine how he would feel if it was Carl who was sick and Carol would kill him like that? Rick would have had willingly brought her back so he would be responsible for her actions. It's understandable that he banned her. As what Carol did was also understandable. I don't think there is a right or wrong thing here.

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  89. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:37

    Some people were floating around the idea that Carol could join him exactly to end what Andrea started: sleep with him and kill him in his sleep.

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  90. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:40

    Yes. http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/11/the-walking-dead-season-4-melissa.html


    Read the second interview. She doesn't spell it out loud but it's pretty clear. She talks about what's to come for Carol, etc etc. I think that if you are a fan of Carol you should enjoy the fact that she is being given such a prominent and rich storyline, even if it means you don't see her for a couple of episodes now.

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  91. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:40

    I agree with the last part. Rick could never bear the responsability of bringing her back and being responsible for her actions moving forward.

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  92. omabin5 November 2013 at 11:41

    I have a feeling they will go down the Governor route with Carol and not with Bob to be honest

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  93. DarqueMode5 November 2013 at 11:50

    I equate this world to something on the order of the wild west in the US. Justification for killing a person who means you harm is easy to come by and people will accept a killing as self defense easily , but plotting out someone's death and then killing them as they sleep crosses a line.


    Outside of the prison in the fully wild environment I think a case can possibly be made for "anything goes in this new world", but the prison is a community, an attempt at regaining some of their humanity and grasping at civilization. I do not think there is a place for cold-blooded and premeditated murder of people while they sleep.


    I would veer from that somewhat in one case....
    If someone was attempting to kill a tyrannical leader or a dangerous antisocial person I can accept the killing of said person in their sleep. However, I would see it as an assassination or military-like action.


    I would not hide the fact I did it after either. If you are justifed in doing the act, you should not need to hide the fact that you did it (like Carol did).

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  94. omabin5 November 2013 at 12:17

    I understand your reasoning, 100% and you have a lot of points in there. My thing is just that if the human race is on the verge of extinction and you're fighting for the survival of your group and killing 2 people that could already die anyway is the price to pay, the price may not be as high as that. I do however note your point about the prison being a place where you should try to preserve your humanity more. It's complicated. Like I said before, I do not wish to justify her actions and say they were right, but they are too grey for me to say they are wrong too.

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  95. DarqueMode5 November 2013 at 12:35

    I think I have another fault with what Carol did..
    It was just outright faulty logic.

    At that point no one knew what the effects of the virus would be on the second wave victims. Karen and David(?) were both from that infected cell block as well. They well in the plagued cell block and in the melee and could have been exposed then.

    Anyone in contact with Karen and the guy could have already been infected. That means Rick, Daryl, Tyrese, many others and Carol herself! All of those people could have the virus even if they do not show symptoms! They could be carriers just waiting to infect others later.

    If Carol wanted to burn the virus away she would have needed to kill everyone that was in contact with the original infected victims.... and everyone that had been in contact with those people. and so on.

    What she did would have absolutely no affect on curbing the spread of the virus in all probability . Carol made a rash decision that was morally wrong (possibly arguable), but more than that it was just stupid and ineffectual.

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  96. omabin5 November 2013 at 12:41

    That is a fair point yeah, I cannot go against that one.

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  97. CJ5 November 2013 at 14:22

    Here's where I may start to over think her statement. She said Carol killed them...does she mean physically stabbed them in the head OR does she mean she killed them by putting a knife in Lizzie's hand and is responsible for showing Lizzie how to kill therefor guilty by association?

    If you remember, before going out on their run Rick looked at Carol's knife pouch and saw 1 missing. It's the one she gave Lizzie and asked Lizzie to show her before she left with Rick.

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  98. CJ5 November 2013 at 14:26

    Here's where I may start to over think Melissa McBride's statement that Carol killed Karen and David. She said Carol killed them...does she mean physically stabbed them in the head OR does she mean she killed them by putting a knife in Lizzie's hand and is responsible for showing Lizzie how to kill therefor guilty by association?

    If you remember, before going out on their run Rick looked at Carol's knife pouch and saw 1 missing. It's the one she gave Lizzie and asked Lizzie to show her before she left with Rick.

    To add on to this, I think there will be another killing (by Lizzie while Rick's driving back) and that will lead Rick and all to realize they were wrong about Carol and Daryl to go get her.

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  99. omabin5 November 2013 at 14:31

    I doubt that. I think the show was really going for this morally debatable thing that we are all arguing right now. Also Melissa McBride promptly rejected that theory that Lizzie was somehow involved when asked.

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  100. Linlighthouse5 November 2013 at 15:38

    When Carl walked in while she was teaching knife skills to the kids, and she asked him to not tell his father. Then Carl did tell him, and Rick got this look, like, why doesn't she want me to know, and why did she ask my son to keep something from me?

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  101. Jéssica Silveira Gandara5 November 2013 at 20:23

    The disease is likely bacterial, it progresses too rapidly and aggressively to be a virus, like the doc in the second episode said, it's more likely to be some strand of staphylococcus or streptococcus.

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  102. Linlighthouse5 November 2013 at 20:54

    Oh, I missed that part about the doc saying strep or staph. I feel better knowing that they're thinking that way when they go on the hunt for antibacterial meds. Not sure I understand how staph can cause these symptoms, since there's usually skin involvement with staph, but let's pretend there's a team of medical experts advising the writers. I mean, as long as we're pretending zombies are roaming the world....

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  103. CP6 November 2013 at 03:18

    But survival is simple.

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  104. lala26 November 2013 at 03:32

    Oh, I agree. She should have never admitted to it. Once she did, she forced Rick's hand. He had to do something to maintain order and keep the peace.

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