Today's writer polls ought to be interesting given that it includes a writer generally thought of positively in the fandom and possibly the least liked writer duo of all. Should be quite the dichotomy. To help with voter agony, I cheated a bit in the Raelle Tucker poll. You can vote for 2 instead of 1. What can I say? Choosing between Faith and What is and What Should Never Be would be like choosing one child over another to me. Simply cannot be done.
Our previous writer poll lead to 2 very easy victories and one poll that was extremely close. Born Under a Bad Sign got 50% of the votes in the Cathryn Humphris poll. Likewise, The Monster at the End of This Book received almost 57% in the Julie Siege poll. Things were more interesting with the Robbie Thompson poll. Pac-Man Fever got 45 votes, Goodbye Stranger got 35, and Slash Fiction 32. In fact, the only episode that did not get at least 10% of the vote was Bitten. Still I think at least one episode will do worse in this poll.
We will have 2 more writer polls after this with John Shiban and Adam Glass next. Jeremy Carver will be the last poll. We will then do some quotes articles and possibly one silly Supernatural poll to round out our nominations for the huge quotes contest. It should start in two weeks.
Poll Notes:
Raelle Tucker wrote Dead in the Water, Faith, Nightmare, and Salvation with Sera Gamble. All other episodes got solo writing credit.
All Buckner and Ross-Lemming episodes were written together.
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Let's just say that these are two totally different polls today. In the first I was so undecided that I had to open the vote up to 2 choices and there were still episodes that deserve love. In the second poll, there's only 3 I remotely like and those don't come close to the quality of the 4th best episode in the first poll. Let's just agree that they brought back the wrong season 1 writers.
ReplyDelete1. Faith and What is and What Should Never Be - Both of these episodes are in my top 10 best Supernatural episodes of all time. I refuse to choose between them. They are both great character studies with pacing that moves well. Mostly though they both get the characters exactly right, something I no longer take for granted. However, Dead in the Water and Hunted deserve some love too. Dead in the Water was the episode that turned me from a big fan to an obsessed fan. It always holds a special place in my heart. Hunted had Gordon at his loony finest. I really liked him as a human villain. Roadkill would be my 5th choice because while the plot dragged and the big reveal wasn't all that shocking, it was an interesting story that gave us the most insight into ghosts until Of Grave Importance. Nightmare, Salvation, and Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things were equally emoangsting messes with far too much melodrama, although Salvation did give us Dean standing up to John so I guess that one edges the other two out.
2. The only episodes I can even consider here are Slice Girls, Of Grave Importance, and Heartache. I know A Little Slice of Kevin will probably win, but ugh with the torture porn and brothers sidelined for the main action. Just terrible. Of course not near as terrible as Route 666 (which was actually more of a guest acting problem than writing), Man's Best Friend with Benefits (which isn't worth even discussing how horrid it was), and Taxi Driver (the biggest canon-bashing disaster in the history of genre TV). Shut Up Dr. Phil was okay in parts but it was more about the guest stars than anything.
That leaves 3, all of which had an interesting premise but all of which fall flat in parts. Heartache is far better in my opinion than most of season 8. It at least had the brothers getting the win. Slice Girls was better than I expected because it did not lead into another rehashing of the Amy subplot. I liked the girl who played Emma and it had some good quotes. Still, my vote is going to Of Grave Importance. It was the first post-death Bobby episode that we really got to see what Bobby was going through. I liked the guest hunter and the brothers worked pretty well in this one. It will never be higher than a middle ranking episode for me but it sure beats the 3 episodes that are in my 10 worst ever Supernatural episodes.
Speaking of Shut Up Dr.Phil, not a whole lot of great quotes in here but "Hearts in my cupcakes" is now a classic line. More food that reminds me first of Supernatural.
ReplyDelete15. Dean: "Spoiler alert - Jenny Klein's next."
14. Dean: "So..uh, usually in cases like these…" Don: "Are there cases like these?" Dean: "Oh you'd be surprised."
13. Sam: "You know if she's strong enough just being p** off is enough to send some pretty bad vibes their way." Dean: "Literally kill off everything around her just by PMS-ing at it. Yeh, that's not creepy at all."
12. Dean: "Somebody better be chasing you." Sam: "It's good for you." Dean: "No, no it's not good for you. Look at you. You're…you're a mess and you stink."
11. Maggie: "She was part of a pattern okay? I've had 800 years of this. Do not make me bring up the Renaissance." Don: "Oh, oh, you're one to talk. 1492 ring any bells?" Maggie: "The man was about to set sail. He could possibly fall of the edge of the earth. I took pity. So what's your excuse?"
10. Dean: "Another physically impossible death. You got any ideas?" Sam: "Cirque du Soleil?"
9. Dean: "You and Don, you know…" Jenny: "You know? There's no you know." Sam: "No?"
8. Dean: "So the mister's a witch himself. That means we've got not just one p** off witch. We've got two. It's full-on War of the Roses." Sam: "Bewitched just got a lot less funny." Dean: "It's like when they switched Darrins."
7. Sam: "You know, one more thing. What's going on with you?" Dean: "We have had this conversation Sam." Sam: "No we haven't. See to do that, you'd have to…uh, sort of speak."
6. Sam: "Dean like it or not, the stuff you don't talk about doesn't just go away. It builds up, like whatever's eating at you right now." Dean: "There's always something eating at me. That's who I am. Something happens, I feel responsible alright? The Lindbergh baby…that's on me. Unemployment, my bad."
5. Sam: "Alright pick me up." Dean: "Why don't you just run home Lance?"
4. Dean: "Sam, I am so very, very, very, very…very, very tired…"
3. Sam: "I'm talking about whatever you're not telling me about. Look Dean, it's fine. You can unload. That's kind of what I'm here for."
2. Sam: "I'm sorry…uh, restless leg syndrome."
1. Jenny: "There were tiny beating hearts in my cupcakes. There were hearts in my cupcakes. Hearts in my cupcakes! That's never happened before. Hearts in my cupcakes!"
Slash Fiction quotes: This is my favorite episode from season 7 and it has one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. The diner scene with the LeviaWinchesters is perfect. Loved the insight and the snark. For that reason and others (Frank, Mensa Monsters, etc.) it was very difficult to choose quotes in this one. I originally started with around 40. Here's the narrowed list:
ReplyDelete20. Jody: "Right. How're you doing Bobby?" Bobby: "I'm fine. Every day's a gift."
19. Frank: "Little tip from a pro, there's no such thing as a random series of robbery murders by your evil twins. Well have yourself some uppers and look at that some more. Good luck."
18. Bobby: "There's a chemical, sodium borate." Dean: "Okay, let me get Mr. Wizard on speed dial."
17. Valente: "We've got to go. Winchesters spotted at a Gas n Sip. It's about a thousand miles from here. That's fast…must have flown. Morris: "That or Batmobile."
16. Mensa Monster: "Well it's kind of hard to sift through all the drunken blackouts but…" Bobby: "Man's reach should exceed his grasp." Mensa Monster: "I like that. That's actually lovely. Browning. After I eat you, I'm definitely going to hit the library."
15. Frank: "Yours have been busy beavers. You're number 2 on the most wanted list, quickest climb up the charts since Donna Summer."
14. Dean: "You know it's bad enough that they're ganking people wearing our mugs, but now this? Have us driving around in this…this kaboodle while Baby's on lockdown."
13. Dean: "You want me to Desperate Housewives these mothers?"
12. Frank: "Guy saves your life one time and what? You owe him the rest of yours?" Dean: "That's usually how it works, yeah."
11. Frank: "Well my condolences on the doppelgangers. Now who sent you? NSA, the Feeb, March of Dimes?"
10. LeviaSam: "Right…idea. You want to trade? I'm mean I'll take Chuckles over Schizo." LeviaDean: "No, I like this one's hair better. You can stay in the big one."
9. Bobby: "Thank me?" Jody: "Well yeah, seeing as they were fresh out of 'Thanks for saving me from liver-eating surgeon' cards at the store." Bobby: "Oh that. Just doing my job…which nobody pays me for."
8. LeviaDean: "I'm not your brother but I am Dean adjacent."
7. Mensa Monster: "Ah Bobby, you are 10 pounds of sad in a 5 pound bag."
6. LeviaSam: "Who has two thumbs and full-blown bats in the belfry? I'm serious, it's nothing but Satan-vision on the inside. I mean how he's walking around in a jacket with detachable arms is beyond me."
5. Frank: “Now I'd lay low 'cause I love life and its infinite mysteries, but you two want to be dumb that's fine."
4. Dean: "Nobody puts Baby in a corner." Sam: "You…you know that's a line from…" Dean: "Swayze movie. Swayze always gets a pass."
3. Dean: "They're wearing our faces Bobby. This is personal." Sam: "Yeah, I'm with Dean here." Bobby: "Well if you're going to be stupid, you might as well be smart about it."
2. LeviaSam: "Dead plants with creamy goo. It's like eating self-righteousness. I mean you tell me which is worse."
1. LeviaSam: "You know I had a brother with this many issues once." LeviaDean: "Yeah?" LeviaSam: "Know what I did?" LeviaDean: "Hmm." LeviaSam: "I ate him." LeviaDean: "Of course you did."
The Mentalists quotes: This may not be the best episode but it has some good quotes. Just forget the Amy subplot parts and the whole anvilicious episode improves. Plus we get a new word - affirmate.
ReplyDelete15. Dean: "Yeah no, those depraved killers got put down like the dogs they were. Us on the other hand, we're completely harmless." Twit: "Oh yeah, I'm sorry. Silly me…and I can see by your energies, you're completely gentle."
14. Waiter: "Hello, first time at Good Graces?" Dean: "Yes." Waiter: "Well we're 100% locally sourced, biodynamic, and you get a free affirmation with every order." Dean: "I think I'll source the taco joint."
13. Radio: "Mediums are dying in Lily Dale, the most psychic town in America. So if you want to know your future stick to that 900 line 'cause is it just me or should those guys have seen it coming?"
12. Dean: "Geraldo-d." Sam: "Not good." Dean: "Not good." Sam: "Dean, if someone knew enough to take Margaret's bones, they're not kidding around. That's serious binding magic." Dean: "Great, psychic ghost b** on a leash."
11. Dean: "Policing Lily Day sounds fun." Chief: "It was either this or Los Angeles."
10. Guide: "I'm sorry, I don't normally do this during business hours, but do you know an Eleanor…or an Ellen? She seems quite concerned about you. She wants to tell you….pardon me…if you don't tell someone how bad it really is, she'll kick your a** from beyond. You have to trust someone again eventually….Anyway don't forget to visit the gift shop."
9. Sam: "So these clairvoyants, did they give any details as to why they thought it was a ghost…or a…Russian ogre?" Chief: "Their spirit monkey said so."
8. Jimmy: "Very powerful. Very rare." Dean: "Let me guess…very expensive." Jimmy: "Worth every penny." Dean: "Well in that case, we'll be taking the state's evidence discount."
7. Chief: "Oh I've got leads coming out of my a**. As of 9 o'clock, our tip line had 46 calls, all from town clairvoyants that know what really happened." Dean: "What's the popular theory?" Chief: "It's a toss-up between a ghost and some sort of ogre that only attacks Russians."
6. Customer: "Thank you, Sister Thibodeaux." Camille: "No child, thank the spirits. Now will that be cash or credit?"
5. Dean: " Alright next question. What's an Orb of Thessaly?" Sam: "I know one thing. It's made in Taiwan." Dean: "Oh a fake around here, imagine that."
4. Dean: "Oh don't compare us to that hall of crazy. We're like poster kids of functional family life compared to them." Sam: "It's a low bar." Dean; "Well hey…grading on a curve has got me past everything since kindergarten so don't knock it."
3. Dean: "Yeah, see there's…uh, fake woo-woo cr** and then there's real woo-woo cr**."
2. Sam: "He broke my spoon."
1. Waiter: "Fantastic. You are a virile manifestation of the divine." Dean: "What the hell did he say to me?"
Season 7, Time for a Wedding quotes: Yeah there's not much to compliment in this stinker. Even the search for quotes became a struggle. Crowley though of course rocks it.
ReplyDelete12. Guy: "Dean Winchester, this is really thrilling. Hey can I have your autograph?" Dean: "Sure…yeah I'll…uh, carve it into your spleen."
11. Dean: "That look romantic to you?" Garth: "Oh hell no, but I've got this things about fish…dead eyes, man."
10. Dean: "I'm just saying its stupid to think that you need me around all the time. You're a grownup." Sam: "Right." Dean: "You're a hike in the desert, hippie douche grownup." Sam: "Dude, I was camping. You camp." Dean: "Yeah whatever hippie."
9. Marsha: "Craig's job for my soul. I know…hilarious. I mean what have I got to lose?" Garth: "Well there's your soul."
8. Guy: "Oh honey, that is so depressingly Becky. I mean it's…you're so pathetic it actually loops back around again to cute."
7. Sam: "Shut up. I mean I do need you watching my back, obviously." Dean: "Yeah when…uh, crazy groupies attack." Sam: "You know what I mean."
6. Guy: "Oh cr**." Dean: "Yeah you said it. You're in a world…" Crowley: "Hello boys." Dean: "Oh cr**."
5. Becky: "So I'll see you again?" Sam: "Yeah probably not."
4. Sam: "Look man…uh, when I was all dosed up I…I said some cr**." Dean: "Oh you mean she…she wasn't your soul mate?"
3. Sam: "What's with the scrawny guy?" Dean: "Temp."
2. Becky: "You're Crowley." Crowley: "And you're…well, I'm sure you have a wonderful personality dear."
1. Crowley: "There's a reason we don't call our chits in early…consumer confidence. This isn't Wall Street. This is hell. We have a little something called integrity."
Is there a bigger travesty than the continued presence of Buckner and Leming in the Supernatural writing staff ?
ReplyDeleteI mean, we've had some controversial episodes, to say the least, on the show. Some writers are less appreciated than others. But who doesn't agree that these two people just suck at their job ?
Their standalones are ambitionless snoozers which get forgotten the minute they're over, and everytime they are granted the (undeserved) opportunity to tackle the mytharc, their clear lack of talent prevents them to make something decent out of it. I mean, just look at Taxi Driver.
I'm sorry if I may seem bitter or mean, and I'm not judging them as people, I'm only talking about their work here. But after two years, it's more than time to let go of these two. They are hurting the show more than anything else. Every time, I'm dreading their episodes and I've not once been proven wrong yet. They are the only writers who are yet to deliver a great episode. They've had eight chances to do so. Eight episodes that could have been handled better by other writers in the team, or even by newbies.
Wow! The first poll was difficult, because I love all season one episodes, but at the end I picked Faith. My choice from the second poll was Taxi Driver :)
ReplyDeleteFirst one was easy, Faith & What Is
ReplyDeleteSecond one..Shut Up Dr. Phil, only because of the guest stars..."Spike" my first vampire love. lol
You won't be the last to want Buckner and Ross-Lemming to get the boot. It's hard to argue for them looking at the list of drivel, canon-bashing, forgettable schtaka they have compiled, and I like their works better than most. (I mean I think the actual dialogue in Route 666 was better than the plot or Megan E.'s acting.) They plain suck out loud as SPN writers. Perhaps non-genre shows are more their forte.
ReplyDeleteRaelle Tucker wrote some real winners, including my personal favorite WiaWSNB. I really wish that she was coming back next season instead of Charmelo/Snyder.
ReplyDeleteAngel was my first vampire love. In fact I think he's my only vampire love. :-) I actually wish that if they were going to write Shut Up, Dr. Phil for the guest stars, they would have used the Bitten concept here. James and Charisma would have been a whole lot more entertaining than three mopey, emoangsty teens.
ReplyDeletePicking a "favorite" of Buckner and Ross-Leming is like trying to choose which consistency of poop is the LEAST objectionable.
ReplyDeleteVoted the same on Tucker. At least I still get to see her work on True Blood.
ReplyDeleteWhat Is And What Never Should Be and A Little Slice Of Kevin.
ReplyDeleteRaelle Tucker was pretty decent. I was sad to see her go. She and Sera Gamble made a good team. I even like Roadkill and CSPWDT, despite those being controversial.
I really wish she would be coming back to Supernatural instead of the two who are taking Ben Edlund's place. She had a good grip on characterization.
ReplyDeleteHa! I have a feeling many people agree with you. They are not very palatable as genre writers.
ReplyDeleteCSPwDT is one of my least favorite season 2 episodes, but everyone's entitled a less stellar episode and Raelle Tucker earned her spot with her other gems. I agree that she and Sera Gamble made a good team. Faith is still one of the best written episodes of the series.
ReplyDeleteIt'd be nice. But TB needs her, too. That show's been going through a schizo crazy phase since mid-season three (season six starts next Sunday), so ... yeah. We need all the help we can get. I'd really hoped she would've been tapped to be showrunner when Alan Ball quit near the end of last season. But, no, we have another guy in charge. I haven't heard much that makes me optimistic, either. *shakes head*
ReplyDeleteEverytime I see "charmelo" I read it as "caramelo" and I want a candy bar.
ReplyDeleteI agree with that! I always thought Gamble did better writing with another person. I wasn't a fan of any of her solo work on the show.
ReplyDeleteWhen you compare Tucker's episodes to Buckner- Lemming's it's like comparing gold to lead; the quality is so different.
ReplyDeleteI liove all Tucker's eps, with CSPWTD probably being my least favourite of the crop, but it's on the best ep side that it's difficult to decide.
I'll go with WIAWSNB and although I love Faith I'm going to vote for Hunted because sometimes you have to vote an ep for the greatness of the villain, and I'm a big fan of Gordon Walker.
Then there was so much going on in this ep with Dean being kidnapped and Sam rescuing him. plus Ava and all the rest..
I love the brother scene in the bushes at the end. It was just golden. :)
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As for the other duo, IMO their work has gone downhill, since they started writing again in season seven, grading down to their worst ep in Taxi Driver!
I'lll go for Shut Up Dr.Phil which was at least a light-hearted ep and the brothers learned how to temporarily stop a Leviathan. :).
I see ALSOK is leading the poll but I cant't even remember what it's about, other than Kevin got his finger cut off.
TFAW
ReplyDeleteTo me Guy the demon was the best thing about this episode.He was really good in all his scenes and the scene where Crowley show up at the end is terrific.
The writers should have listened to what Crowley said in that scene; namely that he's a serious businessman who doesn't welch on his deals; so Why The Heck are we supposed to believe that he cheated on Bobby's deal sending him to Hell in the drivel that wasTaxi Driver?
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'Crowley: "There's a reason we don't call our chits in early…consumer
confidence. This isn't Wall Street. This is hell. We have a little
something called integrity."'
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'Sam: "Look man…uh, when I was all dosed up I…I said some cr**." Dean: "Oh you mean she…she wasn't your soul mate?"'
Heaven forbid!!
The Mentalists.
ReplyDeleteDean: " Alright next question. What's an Orb of Thessaly?" Sam: "I
know one thing. It's made in Taiwan." Dean: "Oh a fake around here,
imagine that."
I thought the Made in Taiwan thing was funny, maybe because I wasn't expecting it to be a fake. :)
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Jimmy: "Very powerful. Very rare." Dean: "Let me guess…very
expensive." Jimmy: "Worth every penny." Dean: "Well in that case,
we'll be taking the state's evidence discount."
Go Dean:)
Frank: “Now I'd lay low 'cause I love life and its infinite mysteries, but you two want to be dumb that's fine."
ReplyDeleteX
Frank: "Well my condolences on the doppelgangers. Now who sent you? NSA, the Feeb, March of Dimes?"
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I like Frank; I loved his paranoid snark.
Then the Mensa monster was just so nuch fun. The scenes with him and Bobby were so funny.
I loved seeing the guys in evil mode, especially Sam who always has to act out the empathic persona; so it's nice to get a change.
. Dean: "So the mister's a witch himself. That means we've got not
ReplyDeletejust one p** off witch. We've got two. It's full-on War of the Roses."
Sam: "Bewitched just got a lot less funny." Dean: "It's like when
they switched Darrins."
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Ha ha!
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Maggie: "She was part of a pattern okay? I've had 800 years of this.
Do not make me bring up the Renaissance." Don: "Oh, oh, you're one to
talk. 1492 ring any bells?" Maggie: "The man was about to set sail.
He could possibly fall of the edge of the earth. I took pity. So
what's your excuse?"
Loved the historical references. LOL!
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What I didn't like about this episode was the continual harping on abouit Dean having to 'talk' about his feelings, foreshadowing the big Amy reveal that was so obviously to come.
Agree on Hunted. It is undervalued but Gordon Walker was one of my favorites.
ReplyDeleteALSoK in a nutshell - torture, torture, torture, screaming, more screaming, guy burns from a bush, prophets kidnapped, more screaming, you can get rid of angel sigils by splashing paint on them, more screaming, impotence all around, Crowley snark, more screaming, Kevin screaming, Alphie screaming, more idiocy, screaming, screaming, screaming, Cas and Crowley have a showdown with the brothers NOT EVEN in the room...not even as wallpaper, broken tablet, Crowley snark gone, Cas kills Alphie.....I scream about wasting my time. The epitome in torture porn.
Ah back when Crowley was snarky. I liked him that way best. In all fairness, although I love to dis the mess that was Taxi Driver, the real Crowley continuity problem in this one comes from Weekend at Bobby's when Crowley as trying to welch on returning Bobby's soul. Taxi Driver was still a cluster of idiocy though.
ReplyDeleteThe Orb of Thessaly actually threw me because of Buffy, where it played a prominent role. I still laugh every time at the Taiwan line though. Sam snark is awesome.
ReplyDeleteFrank and Mensa Monster were the one-two snark punch that made this whole episode hilarious and mytharc and dramatic. It had everything. I fine debut for Robbie Thompson as a SPN writer. Of course LeviaBrothers was my favorite part. That diner scene cracks me up every time. I was a lunch once and described the salad a la LeviaSam, but no one got it. So disappointing.
ReplyDeleteI had bigger issues with them making Dean stupid again and Sam didn't come off that smart either. Other than that, it was what it was....an anvilicious ode to Buffy alum. I did love the references, and the way Charisma Carpenter said, "I took pity," is one of the best deliveries in the episode. Cracks me up every time.
ReplyDeleteI have not been happy with TB since that awful season 2, it was all orgy all the time. Season 3 was better but not much and I stopped watching after that.
ReplyDeleteEven the horrid Ghostfacers would have been better than what we got in Bitten and you know how much I "love" them. lol
ReplyDeleteBTW if I could have only voted for one in the first poll it would have been What Is. Jensen's acting was perfection.
Yeah, I thought of Buffy also and Soulless Sam snark is the reason I love Clap Your Hands so much..LOL
ReplyDeleteLOL, you are so funny, gonna miss this next year. "So disappointing"
ReplyDeleteWho are you people voting for the canon horror Taxi Driver - are you being sarcastic?
ReplyDeleteRaelle, get bored and come back.
Ok criky! Yeah, the torture episode, plus all the other ridiculous-ness you listed.
ReplyDeleteSo glad I forgot about it. I'll give my brain cells the memo to continue with the mind-wipe!
True, I forgot about that.
ReplyDeleteHowever he did free Bobby from the deal, so could Crowley just appropriate himself of Bobby's soul afterwards, or did Bobby end up in Hell because of past sins? Which of course doesn't make sense if he was then classed as an 'innocent' soul. It's all avicious circle of mixed-up-ness. LOL.
Agree with every word!
ReplyDeleteMs Tucker, ( and all the other great past writers ) come home to Supernatural and give us back our brothers. Pretty please! :)
Easy for me. I voted for Faith, WIAWSNB, and Route 666.
ReplyDeleteYou said it best, it would've been too hard to choose between Faith and What is and What Should Never Be
ReplyDeleteI had an easier time with the second poll, Shut Up, Dr. Phil had two of the best written guest stars in my opinion
Agreed! I enjoyed all the episodes in the first category and only one (Route 666) in the second category. Well, SUDP wasn't awful, but I have no burning desire to watch it again.
ReplyDeleteHahaha! I'm glad there's someone else who can't quite remember ALSOK. Dahne and Peter gave me some details last week, but I still don't fully recall the episode. I don't even remember Kevin's finger being cut off! You'd think I'd remember that but I don't.
ReplyDeleteI'm also blanking on OGI. What the heck was that about? And Heartache. Aside from Sam being mopey about Amelia, I don't recall much about that episode either. In MY opinion, the best episode they wrote was "Route 666." I LOVE that episode and could re-watch it anytime.
Why didn't you like it? I can't say I disliked any episode in that first category. They are all ones I could re-watch again and again.
ReplyDeleteTBAI was crap!
ReplyDeleteI, personally, think Route 666 gets a bad rap from fandom. I'm not sure why. I enjoyed it myself and easily picked it as my fave from that writing duo. Chemistry is subjective as I thought JA and ME had it in spades. They were very cute to me, and the story wasn't awful. I know people didn't like the idea of a possessed vehicle, but it was one I had seen in horror before so it didn't phase me.
ReplyDeleteJMO. I can't say I particularly liked any of their other episodes. TD sucked.
I think I'm easy to please when it comes to certain shows. I still love TB, and I can't wait for the premiere next Sunday. My "Dexter" is also returning for its final season.
ReplyDeleteBut if you don't like cursing & nudity, then you probably shouldn't watch TB. You could give Dexter a try though.
That was a HORRIBLE season but it didn't turn me off the show.
ReplyDeleteIt was just bad in its repetition. I hated Mary Anne. Some people actually liked her and that plot, but I hated it b/c it was one huge orgy EVERY SINGLE EPISODE! It was ridiculous!
I am difficult to please. One thing I need in a show is to be able to root for the heroes and I just can't root for Dexter. It's like Gregory House for me.
ReplyDelete'Of Grave Importance' was the one about the haunted house full of spirits, including the ghost of Bobby and of a female hunter who seems to have had a 'night of passion' with Sam, Dean and Bobby.Lucky girl! :)
ReplyDeleteFor me season seven went downhill with the Born-again Identity and the introduction of crazy Castiel and this is one of those episodes.
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I didn't mind Heartache too much; the monster of the week was a bit confusing, a Mayan god whose organs lived on in others; but at least the brothers were working together and they killed the baddy!
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I quite liked Route 66. A racist truck is no harder to accept than many other weird stuff, we've seen. Then the chase at the end was great with smart Sam, figuring out where to send Dean and the Impala to escape the truck :)
I think ME is such a terrible fence post actress that she not only ruined Route 666 but also The 4400 for me. I actually wince when she's on screen most of the time, it's that painfully bad. I actually think the writing of R666 is decent but the acting and plot were too much for it to overcome. Route 666 is a fail for me because of it. ME is beautiful but no one should ever hire for anything that requires more than standing around looking good.
ReplyDeleteWow, you advocating for more Ghostfacers time does say it all. The good news is that since Bitten's ratings tanked they probably won't try experimenting in that way again. As for the poll, I would have voted WiaWSNB also but I really didn't want to leave out Faith
ReplyDeleteTBAI is one of my least favorite episodes of all time too. It might be second to Taxi Driver in the sheer amount of eye rolling I did throughout the episode. However there are a lot of people who loved it.
ReplyDeleteWhiny, emoangsting teen love triangles. Hey, it is the precursor to Bitten. No wonder I dislike them both.
ReplyDeleteI used to be anti-mind wipe. Season 8 turned me around on the subject.
ReplyDeleteI always remember Crowley cutting off Kevin's finger because it made the title literal - A Little Slice of Kevin - and because they used Cas as an InstaFix again to make it all go away.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, TB-AI was Amnesia Cas while Crazy Cas appeared in RiF. I was not a fan of either one because it meant Cas was getting a pass instead of a redemption journey and that made me angry. I agree that Crazy Cas was too much to take in season 7 and that it made the end of the season suck hard.
ReplyDeleteIt definitely did not make sense when he was labeled "innocent." I think righteous would have been a better way to go but perhaps they didn't want to give Dean's title away. Personally I think they shot darts at balloons to make up the story for Taxi Driver and then wrote whatever tied the plot lines together in some college creative fiction exercise where making sense was not a requirement.
ReplyDeleteI am definitely pro-RoboSam snark. It's actually one of the versions of Sam that I love best. Give me snarky over earnest any day.
ReplyDeleteOnly Supernatural fans appreciate my humor. In real life people just look at me like I've grown 2 heads, They never get the references.
ReplyDeleteBwah! I feel a Bring Back Raelle Tucker twitition coming on. That one could actually do some good. Maybe a letter writing campaign?
ReplyDeleteA complete re-haul of the writers' room is in order. Now that the first big hurdle, Ben Edlund, is taken care of it shouldn't be that hard to sweep the rest out right? Three things would guarantee a live watch of Supernatural for me. Fire the writers, fire Jeremy Carver, get Kripke back. That's the answer to saving Supernatural. And the brothers.
ReplyDeleteFor me Shut Up Dr. Phil is campy fun if you're watching for the guest actors (Jenny is divine) and you have your finger on the fast forward button. I have far less problem with it than most people.
ReplyDeleteYou're correct, of course. How i wish the writers would consult you for the problems of continuity. :)
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In any case, amnesia or crazy, it doesn't really make any difference; as you say, it was just a plot device to keep everyone who had a beef with Castiel, including Crowley,from ganging up on him.
Faith and WiaWSNB are two of my absolute favorite episodes and it just felt right that they both get the love they deserve. Jenny was my favorite of the guest stars in SU,DP but you can tell that Charisma and James were having a blast together. Their energy and fun leapt from the screen.
ReplyDeleteLoving the season 1 love. Season 1 as a whole is an underrated gem in TV.
ReplyDeleteI offer free continuity services to any and every Supernatural writer. Just putting it out there. :-P
ReplyDeleteOh how I wish Crowley had knocked the snot out of Cas in Reading is Fundamental. That would have been a scene to hang my hat on. Instead even Crowley, the King of Hell, is forced to back down in sympathy. Say what? Urgh, it makes my head hurt.
There was nothing that made sense in that episode if measured against earlier canon.
ReplyDeleteI love Bobby, but patricide is a big sin which leaves a mark, as per the show itself stating it in season six.
They could maybe have said that he was a man who had 'redeemed' himself but innocent never. A baby or a child is an innocent soul, Bobby definitely wasn't.
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They should have went for Adam here, who was IMO a true innocent who had been eaten alive.
They could have put a nice ending to the Adam story right there by sending him up to Heaven with his Mom.
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Was there anything that you thought was acceptable, canon-wise, in this ep?
Agreed. I didn't hate it. I love Spike and Cordelia, but if I had to watch one S7 episode again, that wouldn't be it. Haha!
ReplyDeleteI'm a huge fan of S1. I know some say it wasn't the best or the show was just getting its footing and wasn't very good, but I loved Supernatural from the premiere to the finale. There is not one episode I did not greatly enjoy! I loved it all: Bugs, Route 666! I can't think of any other S1 episodes people online seem to dislike, but I enjoyed all 22 episodes. There wasn't a "miss" in the bunch for me. They were all "hits."
ReplyDeleteI can say the same for Seasons 2 and 3. Even though I hated Bela, I didn't dislike any episodes in S3. I can watch Seasons 1-3 straight through. I can watch almost all of S4 straight through. As I mentioned elsewhere, H&H is not a fave of mind, and I've never re-watched OTHOAP. I think my Uriel love prevented me from ever watching it again. Haha!
When did Cas heal it? The same episode? Now, that you've reminded me, I remember all the prophets being kidnapped, and I remember Alfie screaming. It feels like too much was happening int his one episode.
ReplyDeleteIf only it was so easy!
ReplyDeleteEdlund either left because SPN is an old show and is getting to its end so pehaps he thought it was time to look for something else, or it could be he didn't see eye to eye with Carver who maybe insisted too vehemently on imposing his own vision to the show clashing with Edlund's.
Who knows?
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As for Carver, I know nothing about the man other than that he has been capable of writing sublime eps like AVSC and yet falling to the depths with showrunning season eight.
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But as you have said many times, if the ratings hold, then it's difficult that things will change too much.
However one can always hope. :)
Oh, I appreciate the Route 666 love! I had no problems buying the idea of a racist truck. Plus, I liked Cassie/Dean, and Sam was super smart at the end :-)
ReplyDeleteOGI - Now, I remember a little bit. When did Sam have sex w/that ghost? I can't imagine Sam doing that. Was it Soulless Sam? She had sex w/them all? OMG. What about John? Did she have sex w/him too? Hahaha!
For the life of me, all I can remember about "Heartache" was the end scene w/the picnic, which was cheesy beyond belief. I think this was the first time in my Supernatural viewing history that I either changed the channel or fell asleep during the episode. I don't remember them killing anyone. I don't remember the case.
I did a lot of flipping the station in the first 11 episodes of S8 b/c I found most of the episodes boring. Back in the day, I wouldn't dare turn the station when Supernatural was on, but this year . . . . . it became a habit before Christmas break. After Christmas, I pretty much watched them all. My mind stopped wandering as much as it had prior to ATGB.
I hated Crazy Cas. He was annoying and completely useless! He caused a bunch of problems but then just sat around talking about bees or playing board games. That wasn't cute or funny! It was annoying.
ReplyDeleteI do like the scene in TBAI of him regaining his memories. I liked the song that was playing.
I made a DVD of some of Wolfpup's SPN videos and play it VERY loud and my grown sons come in and I am afraid they are going to call the men in the white coats..and "Coming to take me away" is one of the funniest videos she had made.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see Sera back writing.
ReplyDeleteCan't agree w/you there. The characters in CSPWDT were much better written than the Bitten characters . . . in my opinion at least.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the plot better too. I felt bad for the dead girl b/c she didn't ask to be brought back, and she got revenge on all those who wronged her. I also liked when Dean flipped out on her dad b/c of his anger toward John. Sam had to hold him back and then Sam offered himself up for Dean to punch if Dean needed to let out his anger. And then, of course, the end . . . . . what a phenomenal scene. Dean finally talks to Sam and explains why he's so upset! Very touching scene and a great "broment" for me! Love it!
They all slept with Annie before she died but yes Sam slept with her during his RoboSam year. They never mentioned whether she had sex with John or not but the going debate says probably. If she worked with John on a hunt, then most definitely. I liked Annie the ghost because she had spunk and rightly told Bobby he was screwed in the head.
ReplyDeleteHeartache was the age old tale of a woman and her epic love for a Mayan god. Seriously though it was about as classic SPN as you could get this season and it had the brothers sniping at each other just a bit less, so that was all good in my book. Mostly remembered as the one Jensen directed this year, it had a Mayan god working through organ transplants. For me what makes it "golden" for season 8 of course, was that the brothers get an unqualified win without any help from anyone else. Since that is more rare than rainbowed unicorns these days, it gets mega bonus points. It also had the Mayan god chick trying to rip Dean's heart out of his chest so that was memorable too.
I was amazed at how many - online at least - loved TBAI. It was a crap episode, IMO, and an even crappier resolution to Sam's Hellucinations!
ReplyDeleteI prefer to think of it as Edlund wanting to work with Kripke again and Revolution having a bigger budget, but who knows? If Edlund indeed clashed with Jeremy on the future of the show in season 9, then that would actually be a positive sign for me.
ReplyDeleteSo true about the ratings though. Supernatural season 10 is about as much of a lock as I can predict right now. Season 9 determines whether there will be a season 11 though because contracts will be negotiated at the beginning of season 10 and that will determine whether SPN does indeed surpass Smallville as the longest show on the WB/CW.
He healed it in the last 10 minutes of the episode. 2 second instafix, no lingering consequences. It doesn't surprise me that you forgot it. It was a mere blip on the screen.
ReplyDeleteHahaha? Miles vary b/c I have no issue w/her acting. I know a lot of people thought her acting was bad, but it was fine to me. But then I had no issue w/KC's acting in S3 either though I remember reading the complaints.
ReplyDeleteI guess since I've watched a lot of soap operas, the acting has to be really horrendous to bother me. I honestly can't say ME's acting bothered me. I thought she was fine. I liked her in "The 4400" and the two episodes I saw her in on L&O: SVU.
Acting is very subjective. We will have to agree to disagree :-)
There has never been a TV show where I adored all episodes in a season, however I will say that I disliked less in SPN seasons 1-3 than in most. Quite frankly Supernatural before the writers' strike is pretty much what I compare all other shows to and it is unfortunate for them because I've yet seen a series come even close. I will say though, the sheer speed of plot on Teen Wolf is right up there with the plot of early SPN. It just doesn't quite have the instant pull of characters that I felt for the Winchester brothers. That was lightning in a bottle and I doubt I will ever have such an immediate sympathy and caring for characters again. That said, I love Stiles and his dad on Teen Wolf.
ReplyDeleteAhhh . . . . see, I loved House, and I love Dexter! He is the "hero." You might enjoy it. You should give it a chance.
ReplyDeleteFor me season 7 is highly underrated too. Hello Cruel World had the best brother scene. Slash Fiction is one of my favorite episodes of all time. How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters was awesome and contains both my favorite line of the season and one of the very best "killed too soon" characters. Death's Door was writing perfection. I liked so many individual episodes in season 7 that I feel it never gets quite the far shake.
ReplyDeleteWell now that Castiel is human, it's a 'whole new world' full of puppies and kittens and bees of course! :) No more insta-fix!
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty Taxi Driver is the only episode I have still only seen once. All other episodes I have seen at least 4 times, most more like 100. I am psyching myself up to watch it later this summer so I can confirm it in my top 10 least favorite episodes. Off hand I would say that Sam getting out of Purgatory in the same way Dean did was canon. Death being the boss of reapers was canon, but the idea of anyone having the guts to o rogue on Death seemed way out there. I mean we've seen Death and he's scary just on the entrance. I think the idea that reapers are powerful and travel to all realms was canon. Although we've never seem them take anyone to Purgatory, it makes sense in the overall idea of reapers.
ReplyDeleteWhile I hate all things Adam, I do agree that he would make a little more sense here IF he wasn't in the cage. However since he is, that would mean that Sam waltzed into the supposed best protected place in hell, yanked his brother out without releasing Michael or Lucifer, and then just strolled right back out again. That would have been an even bigger canon travesty than the mess they did show us. It also would have made Cas pulling Sam out soulless seem like his intention from the beginning and I don't think they could have done that without massive backlash.
You named the one episode I could watch on repeat for hours! Hahaha!
ReplyDeleteHCW was an excellent episode w/a WONDERFUL "broment." I wish it hadn't been just a "broment" and had actually been carried throughout the season. The writers never really played w/the whole "stone #1" thing or with Sam's solution to his problem, but whatevs . . . . it was a great scene!
My controversial opinion is I'm not a fan of DD. That said, I don't believe Bobby should have been killed. That was just silly. I don't remember HTWFAIM. Is that the episode w/the Biggerson's bad meat?
I can't like SF b/c it set up something that was never really carried throughout the season. How are Sam and Dean still posing as FBI when they were nationally known serial killers? Sam and Dean still posed as FBI. They still hunted. Nothing about their routine changed after that crazy event except their vehicles. It was just silly and kind of pointless at the end, IMO. It wasn't a bad episode, but it also started that mini-Amy (pointless) drama so I'm not a fan.
Wow?!!? Haha! Thanks. I can't believe how much of that episode I've forgotten.
ReplyDeleteDahne answered you perfectly. Yes, it was soulless Sam. Mmm, I have a thing for Robosam and his soulless snarky self! :P
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As for Heartache, I'm no expert as I've only seen it once, but it was the only one of those first ten episodes that didn't depress me as far as the brothers' relationship went!
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As for the end scene with the unlikeable Amelia, I remember thinking that poor Jessica must have been turning in her grave to think that she had never bought a cake or made cookies to celebrate Sam's birthday, and that only Amelia had made Sam smile. Ugh!
And that may be the best part of Cas' character in season 9, except of course if he has truly lost ALL of his powers which I kind of doubt they will do. I have a strong feeling that there will be angel powers on earth, fallen angels or not.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big antihero fan. I could never root for the mobster a la the Sopranos or the serial killer a la Dexter. I can't even root for he guy who makes everyone so miserable that I wish someone would shoot him a la House.
ReplyDeleteWow! I definitely turned the station during that one. She tried to rip out Dean's heart!?!?!? It sounds interesting . . . . ugh but how much time was spent on Amelia or Sam moping/emoing/angsting about her? I can't stand that.
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised that it was Soulless!Sam who slept w/her. That sounds like something SS would do! Haha!
Understood! I'm a huge fan of the "anti-hero." Not all the time, but definitely on shows like "Dexter" and "House." If you hate Dexter/House, you pretty much can't watch those shows so I understand why you don't/didn't.
ReplyDeleteFor besides the freaking amnesia which is ALWAYS a bad idea, it was the idea that they were trying to make me believe that Sam was practically lying on death's door but he still works a hunt that had me shaking my head in disbelief. Pick one because you can't have it both ways. It's as annoying as the opera singer full out shrieking about her death when she's dying of tuberculosis....really, really Violetta? You're dying of a breathing condition and you have the power to hit that note for so long? Sam was the Violetta of this episode and it took away from how powerful the scenes could have been.
ReplyDeleteUgh . . . that's another reason I hated the whole Amelia thing. Carver tried at act as if Jessica didn't exist. Sam wasn't isolated in college. He had friends. I'm sure he had B-day cake before. Heck, John and Dean probably got him one at least once!
ReplyDeleteI semi-watched it once. Haha! I'd watch it again but I fear there's a lot of Amelia moping and angst. I just can't . . . with that. Ugh!
I ADORED SS! He rocked. And unlike many, I would have been find w/Sam not getting his soul back until the end of the season. That's how much I enjoyed SS.
You and I are on the exact same page! How stupid was that? Sam's about to die but he's helping this girl w/a hunt!?!?! Okay! That was just silly and unbelievable. Let the guy be freakin' sick. If he's on death's door, put him on death's door!
ReplyDeletePlus, I got no sense of urgency from Dean. It was all very low-key, IMO, for Sam to be DYING. Other than the beginning, there was no energy to the episode. Dean should have been panicked but he seemed okay. Sam seemed fine. No one seemed to care so I didn't either. Hahah! And I love Sammy, but that was the most low-key impending death I've ever seen on this show.
Since I tend to loathe overly emotional Impala angsting, that moment will never make my best of "broment" moments. In fact most Impala chats are dripping in melodrama when a subtler approach would be much better. I find Impala chats mostly audience manipulation more than good storytelling.
ReplyDeleteAngela is right up there with Lori from Hook Man in most annoying one-shot characters for me. Go take your soap opera drama elsewhere. I also felt zero sympathy for Neal and was fine when he died. The only person in the episode I felt for, besides the brothers of course, was Angela's dad and that went to daytime soap level melodrama in 0 to 60 seconds. I did like the sidewalk scene when Sam lets Dean know how off the wall he is acting. It almost made up for Sam's consistent discounting that Dean had an actual case for the entire first half of the episode. Blech! Contrived brother drama strikes again.
So would I but this fandom burned her bad. No way she's ever returning to Supernatural unless Kripke himself asks her to write a special episode, and even then it's doubtful.
ReplyDeleteShe was one of the earliest SPN fan vidders I ever followed. Awesome stuff their. I also loved Lsketch's early works. Haven't seen anything recent from her in awhile though. I might have to look her up.
ReplyDeleteCrazy Cas was the biggest disservice they have ever done to that character. Before RiF, I wanted Cas to go away because I wanted all angels to go away. It was nothing personal. In RiF I literally hated the Cas character and every time he showed up crazy I wanted to throw things at my screen. I was so glad when they did away with that terrible plot twist.
ReplyDeleteThe entire episode is best described as anticlimactic. I didn't believe Sam was dying. (Of course I didn't believe that his body didn't just force him to sleep so that was an issue too. It's not sleep is optional. Your body will win eventually no matter how hard you try.) It felt like another Sam's in trouble episode and the ending made 2 seasons of build up null and void. They backed themselves into a writing corner and had no logical way to get out of it. Enter the Cas InstaFix, which has always been a huge deus ex machina on this show. Another reason why angels simply have to go.
ReplyDeleteAh yes Jessica...another canon foundation that got screwed over in season 8. Sam might as well said, "Jessica who?" for all the superlatives he was throwing at Amelia. I actually didn't mind the picnic scene. I just didn't buy it.
ReplyDeleteI too find it highly unbelievable that Dean never got Sam a birthday cake. Heck he surely at least swiped him a cup cake. Jeremy Carver was on full hyperbole with Amelia. Too bad he didn't tell the writers to make her more sympathetic in the process.
ReplyDeleteI too missed RoboSam when Sam got resouled. My best case scenario was that Real Sam would keep some of RoboSam's better qualities and give us a Real/Robo mesh.
I think Heartache is worth the rewatch. The brothers in action together is worth a bit of the emoangting over temporary characters.
ReplyDeleteIt's your brain's natural defense system kicking in to block out season 8.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE "overly emotional Impala angsting." Hahaha!
ReplyDeleteI just loved that Dean opened up and told Sam what he was feeling. Sam had been bugging Dean, and Dean finally let it out. It was a good moment for Dean b/c he needed to tell someone what he was thinking. And while I said I love "overly emotional" soul bearing, I honestly don't view that moment as overly emotional or OTT. For me, it was a conversation I could see them having so I enjoyed it. I've enjoyed every single Impala chat and/or confession that we've gotten. To me, they've all been "in character." None have been, IMO, overly emotional or disingenuous. JMO.
I didn't feel bad for Neal either. Angela had to go, but I felt bad that she was brought back anyway, esp. since she didn't ask for it.
Yes, anticlimactic describes it best! Plus, I always thought they should have said Cas "cracked" the wall instead of dropping it completely. Sam was far too functional for the Wall to have completely fallen!
ReplyDeleteIt's a bit hard for me to imagine reapers accompanying monster souls to hell, I sort of see them as doing it only with humans, but what do I know about the afterlife! :)
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As for going into the Cage I can see the problems they might have had with that, but they have trashed so much canon that I'm sure the intrepid writers could have come up with something, maybe having an angel accompany Sam.
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As for Castiel pulling Sam out without a soul, I'm convinced he did do it on purpose, based on all the little clues there have been throughout the episodes.
He told Crowley that Dean hadn't to be pulled back into hunting, but it was okay to go and pull Sam out of the Cage to do so; but if he had pulled Sam out with his soul then he would surely have tried to see Dean.
A Sam with a soul would have wanted to let Dean know he was well, for he would have known his brother was suffering and would have wanted to reassure him.
Without his soul he wasn't Sam, only an emotionless hunter and that's what Crowley and Castiel needed.
Then why didn't Castiel tell Dean his brother was out?
Maybe because he wanted Sam where he was, hunting alphas with Samuel! Why did he never answer Soulless Sam when Sam reminded Dean that he had called him more than once and he had never shown up?
Then in the ep where Sam asks him outright if he had pulled him out soulless on purpose, Castiel is completely unconvincing with his answer and Sam seems to think so too.
Yup :-)
ReplyDeleteI guess I should give it a rewatch since you and Isle liked it. Y'all wouldn't steer me wrong . . . . I guess :-)
ReplyDeleteHey what about financing Tucker or Humphries to write a script or two, like the Veronica Mars movie? We can bribe someone (Kripke) to allow it. Don't they have to accept at least one outside script a season as per the writer's guild rules? I'm thinking way too much about this.
ReplyDeleteOh man, if Tucker, Humphries or Shiban came back, I'd flip for joy. Heck I'd even take Kripke and Gamble writing again. I'd rather Singer write than produce, lately, instead of his wife...
ReplyDeleteFor me, I tend to enjoy all the episodes of shows I like. For instance, I started watching OUAT, and I enjoyed every single episode that aired in S1 and S2. I was just introduced to TWD last year, I think. I love every episode of that show!
ReplyDeleteIt has to be really bad for me to dislike it, and I can't say there is a single episode in S1-S3 that I would not rewatch. They're all basically good and entertaining, IMO. I was offline during those seasons too.
So, I watched it again - thanks to YouTube - and I remembered why I didn't like this episode. I just can't deal w/Sam. His attitude stinks, IMO, and he behaves like a complete ass to his recently resurrected brother.
ReplyDeleteSam is ridiculously annoying w/his organic fruit, passive aggressive suggestions that Dean go hunt on his own, and his lame declarations of "having normal" for the first time in his life.
Please note,my beef isn't w/Sam but w/the writing. It's just horrible to me. I can never buy into this idea that Amelia gave Sam his first chance at normal! Hello, Writers? Sam had normal w/Jessica! Before Dean returned in the premiere, Sam had NO plans to return to his old life so he had normal. He was planning to get married and go to law school. How is that not normal?
This episode also bugs me b/c I feel it regressed Sam. Sam decided - some time ago - to be a hunter. He had resolved himself to the hunting lifestyle, but suddenly, we're back to S1 settings w/Sam not knowing what he wants in life! Just ugh ...... we've been there and done that. Time for a new story.
I hate it when either brother whines and complains about hunting. It's annoying. They are 30+ years old. If you don't want to hunt, then don't hunt! Plain and simple. I felt the same way when Dean was doing his whining and complaining in S5, 6, and 7. I hope the writers quit picking from the "I want normal/I hate hunting" bag b/c neither brother is ever going to NOT hunt so let's just not go there. It makes for boring, repetitive tv, IMO.
Sorry for the rant, but watching "Heartache" again just reminded me of how I much I disliked the start of the season. And that FB w/the cake was just horrible. Are we really suppose to believe Jessica or Dean NEVER got Sam a b-day cake?!?!?!?! Really?!?!?!
LOL, dang, I wondered where my soapbox had gone, glad to see it is getting some use. I agree with you 100%, I did not even like Sam this season. Again not Sam but the way Sam was butchered into a person I did not even know or for that matter want to know.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, I've only watched it once, like all the the episodes this season except a couple and I have no particular urge to watch them again; one's supposed to enjoy the watch not get angry at the episode, so all I really remember here is that they worked successfully together on the case and Sam saved Dean as the baddie tries to tear out his heart, plus how cute they looked in their white shirts, but now that you have reminded me of the rest, maybe I'll have to revise my opinion.
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Even the couple of episodes which I did quite like such as ATGB, the hellhound one and the Golem one tend not to attract me because the OOC first half of the season ruins whatever good there is in the rest for me.
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The points you underline about the ep are all valid; Sam was still still in douchey OOC mode and the Amelia stuff and the harping on about normal was just unreal.
The character had Sam's face and body but it wasn't Sam.
I'll just say that season eight was terrible and leave it at that.
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Sometimes when i read gushing reviews about the season from professional and non, critics, I wonder if they have actually watched the episodes in season eight at all.
I think I'm the only fan who liked season two. Granted, I'm with everyone who hated Mary Anne, but I really loved the Sookie SL and esp the one with Jason, because he's my favorite character. Then eventually their SLs intertwined, and gave some great brother/sister moments in the end. Plus, Eric's maker. Loved all of that.
ReplyDeleteI had serious issues with Dexter. People talked me into watching it, swearing I would love it and blah blah. After the first season, I wrote a long post explaining why I couldn't get behind the premise of the show. It reminded me of moral issues I had with something the main character of the Death Note manga did, justifying his tyranny with "I only kill criminals".
ReplyDeleteAfter about two seasons, I couldn't stand Tony Soprano's shit anymore. I kept watching for the other characters and I'm just a massive fan of mob movies, old school gangster stuff - real and fictional.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the "critics" had not watched the first 7 years to know who Sam was and did not know he was totally out of character. I said from the first of the season that something was wrong with Sam, this was NOT MY SAM. This is the first season that I have not watched each ep at least 5 times in the week between eps. Once was more than enough for most of them.
ReplyDeleteThat's the heart of my problem with watching a show where the serial killer is the hero too. My mind doesn't work that way. There are things I need my heroes to have and morality is one of them.
ReplyDeleteI'm good with agreeing to disagree, especially since I cannot watch daytime soaps anymore because of the horrid melodramatic acting and plots. I have to say that I really hope Supernatural doesn't lean that way. Far too many Impala chats have felt like a scene from a soap. In that matter I think season 8 has been marginally better, but only marginally.
ReplyDeleteIn my head that is what happened and then the wall crumbled as Lucifer got more and more of a grip.
ReplyDeleteI tend to ignore the beginning and concentrate on the case which I thought was pretty good. It helps that I did a lot of research on Mayas in college though too. I thoroughly understand your issues with the wash-rinse-recycle plot about hunting though. It is now so old it needs to be salted and burned so its ghost can finally be put to rest. I still do not understand why the writers cannot get the conflict out of the mytharc instead of contriving rifts between the brothers for no reason.
ReplyDeleteI still believe that season 8 starred shapeshifters whose mind meld malfunctioned in the middle so only select memories got transferred over. In the real world, Dean is still fighting in Purgatory and RealSam is working with Sheriff Mills to find a way to get him out. Since there are no such things as rogue reapers, it is just taking him a little while.
ReplyDeleteI would guess that for the first part of the season the critics thought like all we did - that there would be a satisfying reason for why Sam did not look for Dean. Eventually the critics dropped it. To be honest though most critics, especially the ones that are essentially professional blogs, stay on the positive side of reviews when they at all can.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to disagree solely based on The Man Who Would be King, even though I avoid that episode whenever I can. In that episode it is clear that Cas pulled Sam out before he met with Crowley. My take is that he did not mean to pull Sam out soulless but there is NO way he didn't know Sam was soulless right away. Once he got pulled in with Crowley, it is abundantly clear to me that they liked having RoboSam doing their dirty work...both of them. I agree that Cas not answering RoboSam for a year and then playing least in sight for much of the next was his feeling guilty over his decision to use Sam as a weapon and over the whole Crowley deal itself. I also think it makes suspect every conversation Cas had with Dean when he was trying to keep Sam soulless. He would have lost his best resource in the Alpha fight. I do not think Cas is in any way innocent when it comes to Sam or RoboSam, but the show itself seems to say that Cas pulled Sam out first so there would be no reason for him to purposely take him out soulless. Now leaving him soulless is a whole other subject.
ReplyDeleteNot sure about Singer since he has never written an episode on his own yet. He tends to align himself with the best writers so I have no idea how much of it he actually writes. As for the rest, I would love have most people from the earlier seasons come back. It was a real shame that when they did bring a season 1 writing pair back, it was Buckner and Ross-Lemming. Those two could have stayed gone forever and the show would have been better for it.
ReplyDeleteYes, HtWFaIM had Dean drugged by the sandwich. It was also when they learned Dick Roman was the leviathan leader and when we learned that Bobby taught the brothers their outdoor tracking skills. Basically for me it was one of the better episodes of season 7.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't a fan of killing Bobby off either but it was a beautiful, exquisite piece of character writing that revealed so much about a character I loved sometimes more than the brothers.
I still love Slash Fiction, my favorite of season 7, but I do agree that it left behind more problems than it solved. I did like that they at least acknowledged those problems in The Mentalists and Slice Girls, but it should have been a bigger deal.
I don't think they have to accept outside scripts from anyone. Supernatural sure doesn't. However if it was a fan driven thing and most importantly, WB wouldn't have to pay 1/23 of the writing budget, then my bet is they would be thrilled. I like the way you think. I wonder what the going rate is for an episode. Definitely less than the cost to make a movie.
ReplyDeleteI have an opposite opinion from most fans here in that I think it is being a responsible fan to point out the bad and the good. There are rarely any episodes that are 100% good or 100% bad and coming from a journalism background in writing, I feel it is important to be honest about how I feel in all things. My very favorite episodes also have little nitpicks and scenes that aren't up to par with the others. (EX. The graveyard scene in WiaWSNB.) That's the nature of the game. Now granted there are very few times when show incenses me as much as season 8 has done, but that's the very reason why I am bowing out.
ReplyDeleteYeah. I think we should go with that.
ReplyDeleteLove the idea of RealSam and Jodie workig together to get Dean out. She's such a great character and friends with both brothers, which is a bonus :)
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As for the rogue reaper, I wonder which of the two writers came up with that lame idea. Death should give them a talking to for interfering in his affairs!LOL
That's just the way the story had to go, I suppose although we do see Castiel standing beside Sam under the street-lamp outside Lisa's house.
ReplyDeleteCastiel could have said something there, or brought Sam into the house.
There's just something fishy about the whole thing.
The stupidity of her CHARACTER ruined The 4400 to me. Actually, I like to pretend everything past season two doesn't exist.
ReplyDeleteI had to stop watching halfway through season 3 (?) because I just could not stand seeing her fence post acting on my screen anymore.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was season three, because that was the season where everything took a big turn for the WTF? I didn't even watch season four. A friend of mine who watched too just told me everything that happened. I almost kept turning it on because she told me Kyle had a huge role again and he was one of my favorites.
ReplyDeleteFor me, if I don't like an episode, I will not likely re-watch it so the two things are linked in my mind.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed Bugs, Route 666, Unforgiven, and TAAHM so I can easily re-watch those episodes. I thought they were solid, good episodes. I did not care for RIF, AIB, LARP, FI, the Western episode, so I would never re-watch those episodes. I saw them once, and that was enough for me.
If I can re-watch it, I liked it. If I have no desire to ever see the episode again, then I probably didn't care for it as a whole.
I was not a fan of Dick. The actor was fine, but the Leviathans were a FAIL to me as an enemy. Their end game as lame, IMO. So, they want to eat everyone . . . . who cares?
ReplyDeleteI know I'm in the minority when it comes to DD and HTWFAIM. I believe I was too upset w/the way the season was playing out in general to fully appreciate either episode.
That's definitely a simple, black and white system. I'm glad it works for you. I think more like a TV critic where there are shades of good and bad in every episode. It depends of how much good it has compared to how much bad that determines whether I think it is a good episode or not. It is subjective and at times can change slightly depending on my mood or how other episodes compare to it. For instance after season 8, I found I liked The Benders better than I normally do. It went from a D-ish episode to a C-ish episode, which is a major jump for me. Generally episodes at most vary half a grade.
ReplyDeleteExactly! The boys can have conflict about the mytharc or anything other hunting. That story/angle is played out and BORING at this point! Just let them be hunters. Let them be happy for the most part. Let them be fine w/each other. We're not asking much here. Just a little creativity in the writers' room!
ReplyDeleteThe case was alright to me. I'm still not sure why those people were killing people. Did Brick's body parts make them evil? It wasn't clear to me what was going on? And the stripper . . . was she the same woman who smeared blood on her face? I understand that sacrifices must be made, but it seemed like those people were supposed to be more evil than Brick? I don't know.
I guess I still wasn't paying as close attention as I should have been.
Yeah . . . Sam's douchiness was just too much to take in this episode. He just annoyed me.
ReplyDeleteBut the boys did work the case together, and they both looked hot in their white shirts. And it seems they were both tanned, which is always nice! Plus, Jared's hair . . . . . simply gorgeous throughout the entire episode! I mentioned that Dahne that I still wasn't paying close attention to the episode as I was more focused on Jared's hair. I don't know who was doing it then, but hopefully, that person still works on the show!
After HCW, I didn't rewatch much of S7 either. Before this season aired, S7 was my least favorite . . . not it's S8.
ReplyDeleteHappy to oblige :-)
ReplyDeleteSeeing "Heartache" again only reminded me why I hated it in the first place and why I hate the first half of S8. After ATGB, I was fine w/Sam. From that point forward, for me, Sam was in character and behaving like himself so I was fine.
Sadly, I don't remember much about S2 except Mary Anne and Eggs! Was that the season where Jason was involved w/the church?
ReplyDeleteI just remember Mary Anne taking up so much time w/her crazy orgies. There was an orgy practically every single episode. It was crazy! Haha!
Jared's hair has taken on life of its own now. :) and it was really lovely in the first episodes.of s8. :)
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The only time I didn't like it was in the first half of season seven where it seemed they had tried to keep it under control by heaping tons of hair lacquer or something on it, taking the naturalness out of it.
See Time For A Wedding.
See, prior to the beginning of S8, I've felt for a while now that they grease it down too often and try to straighten it. Whoever was doing it at the start of S8 knew exactly what to do and let it freely flow. Haha! I loved it because it looked healthy and good.
ReplyDeleteSee, I don't think Dexter is anything like the guy from Death Note! That guy was a jerk! Hahaha! I liked Light though.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I saw the movie. I believe it was a graphic novel/comic book.
I think we are going to have a Sam's hair poll because it always gets a lot of nominations, I'm in the mood for silly, it's easy, and since this is my last hurrah I have nothing to lose. I just need to find pictures and figure out how to break it down. I am not a hair aficionado so unless the brothers look particularly good or particularly bad, I rarely notice any differences.
ReplyDeleteEven I noticed Sam's hair in the picnic scene so that says a whole lot.
ReplyDeleteThe stripper is the one who tried to give Dean heart surgery and smeared blood over her. Brick's body parts turned the people partway into Maya gods and they were definitely the peace and happiness sort. My guess is that Brick was a little better at controlling his compulsion to kill.
ReplyDeleteJared's hair even caught my attention in this episode so I completely understand why it distracted you. :-P
I thought their end game was pretty large scale and interesting. I just didn't find most of the leviathans interesting, although the ones I did were phenomenal. Mensa Monster (Chet) was a riot. I wish he had lasted longer and taken Edgar's place. Mensa Monster brought the smart and the fun.
ReplyDeleteI probably need to revisit it because I have forgotten most of what happened. Sadly, it's not on this summer's list because I am already overbooked on TV this time around.
ReplyDeleteAlmost all the SPN critics I know have been watching the show for years, some as early as the pilot. I think blog critics have to be more careful than say ones from TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly. All of their resources are based on relationships with people in the know and that can go away pretty easily. More importantly though, they have to keep their readers satisfied and coming back for more or they are doomed. what I have found is that most fans do not want honest criticism. They want gushing so they can gush with them. It is very hard to toe that line between honest reflection and providing your readers with a positive experience on your blog.
ReplyDeleteThat whole tagged on 30 seconds was fishy and completely unnecessary. It took away from the big emotional punch that Swan Song was supposed to be.
ReplyDeleteIt's my perfect ending because the story can go wherever I want it to. Plus any time we get more Sheriff Jody helping the brothers out is a good thing.
ReplyDeletePerhaps we should have Death camp out in the writers' room until they serve up some interesting, solid, canon-based plots that actually use the brothers for the heroes. It would definitely be more beneficial than schlepping souls around and could actually save some souls in the process.
I liked Sam MUCH better in the early seasons with the hair wild and in the eyes on forehead. Should say Sam's hair much better.
ReplyDeleteI'm one of the minority that wishes Sam would cut his hair but hey, the awful sideburns have gone so I consider that a huge win.
ReplyDeleteI prefer when the mytharc is more personal for the boys. The Leviathans were like a big corporation, and I just wasn't as interested in seeing the boys fight them as I was in seeing them stop the Apocalypse, save Dean, or kill the YED.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad the season worked for you though. Prior to S8, it was my least favorite season but 8 easily captures that title at this point.
I disagree that Cas knew Sam was soulless. I thought the whole point of TMWWBK was to show that Cas didn't know what was wrong w/Sam or why Sam didn't go to Dean. That's what he expected Sam to do, but Sam didn't and Cas didn't understand why. He said that he should have known he couldn't pull Sam from the Cage by himself but he was being arrogant.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen that episode in a while, but I don't believe Cas knew Sam was soulless, and I definitely don't think he intended to pull Sam from the Cage w/o a soul. He only when to get Sam b/c Dean was so unhappy, and he thought bringing Dean his brother would make Dean happy. That's what I recall from the episode.
From what I can recall, Cas was watching Sam b/c he expected Sam to go to Dean but Sam walked away. Cas says he didn't understand at the time why Sam walked away. He saved Sam for Dean's sake and to make Dean happy. That's why I don't believe he intentionally pulled Sam w/o a soul. His purpose in getting Sam was to cheer up Dean. He says he was arrogant in thinking he, alone, could pull a person from the Cage w/o add'l help.
ReplyDeleteCas watching them was just a creepy thing someone added to the story. I haven't watched that episode in a while, but I think Dahne is right in that Cas might have been called away to handle something in Heaven before he got a chance to tell Dean.
It's really not very clear, which is why it always seemed like a tacked on plot/angle to me. As you said, if Cas knew early on that Sam was w/o a soul, it puts him in a very negative light, IMO, for the entirety of the season. I actually think that's why the writers went out of their way to clarify and say Cas didn't knowingly pull Sam w/o his soul AND that Cas didn't immediately know what was wrong w/Sam.
Ohhhh . . . it all makes sense now. I don't know how I missed that detail about them becoming Mayan Gods. Thank you :-)
ReplyDeleteWasn't Jared's hair lovely?
Oh, I can't wait for that poll! You have to get some screen shots from Heartache or the premiere b/c that shot of Jared/Sam leaning over the railing was a very nice hair shot IIRC. Haha!
ReplyDeleteI didn't like Jared's hair in S3, but it was fine in all the other seasons. It looked most gorgeous - IMO - in the beginning of S8.
ReplyDeleteForget that picnic scene . . . . look at the scene when he and Dean are talking to Betsy. His hair is just perfect in that entire scene. Both he and Jensen are also tanned . . . they are ridiculously HOT in that entire scene. Haha!
ReplyDeleteComing out of the shallow pond for a minute, I forgot to mention that I liked the detective in the beginning. His sarcasm was hilarious! And I liked Betsy when she first met the boys.
I was a big fan of Betsy and the sheriff. Have to say I don't remember the hair in the interview scene. I'm make note to look at it when I watch the episode again.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I will take photo nominations. I really don't have specific screencaps or even episodes in mind.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't that be Ross-Lemming-Singer by now?
ReplyDeletePerhaps he doesn't want to claim her professionally? :-P
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Castiel for me ( apart from the fact that angels as a race suck ) is that he's ambiguous; difficult to pin-point.
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Since he was first intoduced as an upright warrior angel who had risked his life to pull Dean out of hell, we have had infinite variations of him, from good to middling, to downright evil, with crazy, naive, slow to learn and easily manipulated thrown in.
Being such a mixture makes it hard for me to trust or understand him.
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As far as the soul thing goes, season six was all about collecting as many as Castiel and Crowley could get their hands on, so in the context of the season, one could suspect that Castiel wasn't as innocent as he tried to make out.
What made me doubt the most was Sam himself asking Castiel outright if he had pulled him out on purpose from The Cage.
Now for Sam to ask such a burning question in the first place, means that he too had doubts and wasn't beyond believing that Castiel was capable of doing such a thing.
Add on Castiels rather unconvincing denial; unconvincing for Sam too it seems, as he didn't look to happy with the angel's answer.
So true, To see what we though was 'normal' Sam standing ouside Lisa's house alsmost immediately after Dean had gone in, ( At least I'm assuming it was soon after ) detracted a lot from the pathos of the episode.
ReplyDeleteLoL :)
ReplyDeleteYeah. I love when they leave his hair au natural, like Jared himself keeps it.When they try to tame it down it with various hair products, it just comes off greasy and unattractive.
ReplyDeleteI have to say though that I have an unrequited love for Sam's first season bangs.
As for Dean, I wish he would let it grow just little more;, in some episodes it has been extra short and as he too has lovely hair, he could let it go a tad wilder. :)
True. If a critic is going to bother reviewing a show in the first place, then he's going to try and look for the positives, I suppose; but when there are obvious clunkers in the episodes then they should at least be a little dubious, especially if they have been following the show for years.
ReplyDeleteMost of them have given four to five stars for episodes that truly did not deserve them.
I'm talking official reviewers. Fan based ones are always going to be more accomodating towards the show.
No, no, no. Keep your wishes off Dean's head. Some of us prefer short hair and if we can't cut Sam's air, you guys can't grow Dean's. :-P
ReplyDeleteYes. Swan Song's power was in its emotional depth, in the personal sacrifice for a bigger good and the willingness to sacrifice the one you you are closest too. To add that tacky 30 seconds to the end negated a lot of that power.
ReplyDeleteOh I agree. I think reviewers are responsible for giving the good and the bad as they find it, knowing that it is always subjective. I think overall the most critical I have seen this year from official reviewers was Man's Best Friend, where most said in the most polite terms possible that it was a clunker.
ReplyDeleteMe too! I noticed the difference btw "Sam" and Jared from convention videos. Jared clearly knows how to style his own hair so I wish they would just let him do it. As you said, the products make it look greasy and unattractive. I think that's why people were buzzing about his hair so much this summer when the premiere pics were released. I don't remember all that much about the premiere, but I do remember Jared leaning over a rail w/his amazingly good-looking hair. LOL!
ReplyDeleteI don't mind Sam's S1 bangs either :-)
I wonder what Dean would look like w/longer hair. I've seen Jensen with it, of course, but it would look "strange" on "Dean." Someone on the YT video of Heartache I watched wondered how "Sam" would look if next season he cut off all his hair. That would also be strange.
I think I read that the only hair cuts Jared gets are the ones req'd by the CW. I'm guessing he likes to keep his hair long. I remember seeing a pic of him where his hair was a little past his shouldJers. I think I read that Jense prefers his hair a little longer, but the "Dean" look works very well for him, IMO.
I have not been a fan of Sam's hair since the dropped the bangs and hated those sideburns from hell that were eating his face. lol
ReplyDeleteSwan Song is still my favorite ep, but have to agree that the last 30 seconds could have been dropped for a better cliff hanger and ep.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree about the variations in Castiel. I think that is largely b/c the writers don't know what to do w/him or how to handle his character. Each year, he behaves in a different way to suit whatever story the showrunner is trying to tell. In fact, he can change from episode to episode. It's crazy. They need to pick a personality for him and keep to that. As I told someone else, Cas seems more in tune w/normal human interactions in S4 than S8, and that makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I think Castiel largely had good intentions and didn't intentionally pull Sam out of Hell soulless is b/c there would have been no point to that entire sequence in TMWWBK. They took the time to have Cas talk about getting Sam, bringing Sam to Dean, react to Sam walking away, and talking about what that should have pointed out to him. If that's a lie, then why show me that? How is the audience supposed to know it's a lie? Cas was speaking to himself and confessing his sins. He says it was arrogant of him to think he could pull Sam out of Hell, and that he should have known there was a problem when Sam walked away but he didn't. He says it was a "warning," but he didn't take heed of it. When Sam walks away, Castiel looks genuinely confused. I just think if it had been intentional on his part, the show would have made that more clear. When Sam asks, Castiel responds with, "How could you think that?"
I just watched those scenes (YT is wonderful when you're lazy and don't want to pull out the DVD), and you're right about Sam not being sure about Cas's answer, which is understandable and fine. That said, I don't think we're supposed to agree w/Sam. We saw Castiel's thought process re: the incident earlier in the episode so I think we're supposed to accept what he says in a private moment when he has no need to pose or put on a facade for anyone.
If we're to disbelieve everything Cas says in TMWWBK then there was really no point to the episode . . . at least that's how I see it.
Those sideburns were pretty bad. Oddly enough, I never noticed them until someone pointed them out on a MBs. That's when I really noticed how long they were.
ReplyDeleteWhen they were doing the "Braveheart" scene, didn't Sam have his hair in a ponytail? Need to watch it again. I don't mind long hair IF it is clean.
ReplyDeleteOops. Okay. I know when to back down! No longer hair for Dean. :)
ReplyDeleteMe too. I love the brotherly Impala angsting and hugs, though I want them bad-ass and united against the bad guys. :)
ReplyDeleteI have to say I've liked his hair most of the seasons though my preference is for when it's a little shorter. I like the way it curls and flips when it's less heavy.
ReplyDeleteI think it flatters his face more. :)
I thought it looked its worse in the first half of season seven, when I don't know what the hairdressers thought they were doing with it!
Me three, in some eps the Impala talk is the best part of the ep.
ReplyDeleteYep, definitely a ponytail.
ReplyDeleteSam jumping into the pit, Dean broken, and Bobby dead was all the cliffhanger they needed. People would have been talking about it for months.
ReplyDeleteCheers for Impala angsting and hugs! I love BOTH as well :-)
ReplyDeleteHahaha! Then, you should have loved his look in early S8. His hair wasn't weighted down in whatever product they use to make it greasy looking.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes, his hair was in a ponytail in LARP. It looked good on him :-)
Sam not looking for Dean, made it hard to even look at Sam, much less think about his hair, so did not notice it. The Sam of s8 was not my Sam and I wanted nothing to do with him. He was someones clone.
ReplyDeleteWell . . . just look at Jared and forget about Sam. Haha!
ReplyDeleteLoL.
ReplyDeleteI agree, sometimes it is the best part of an episode, but then the brothers are the number one reason why I fell for the show and why I watch, so when they interact on screen , as long as it's not them throwing over- the-top mean and hurting accusations at each other, it's all good.
Not that we've mentioned hugs. What's your favourite?
ReplyDeleteMine is the Lazarous Rising one, it was just so sweet, from the moment Dean pushed past Ruby and the brothers set eyes on each other again, to the actual hug... so sweet; closely followed by the one in Mystery Spot. I loved that Dean didn't pull away though he didn't know why Sam was behaving like that.
Then the Cold Oak ones.
I also loved Dean's one sided hug at the beginning of season six. He did it so well, his eyes were glazed with so much emotion; and that's also the point where I knew there was something wrong with Sam.
The Like a Virgin hug was sweet too, but it had less of a build up in the actual episode.
I think the Leviathans were great villains just not given enough time to be really scary and flesh out their plans. Could have replaced a few "stand-alone" episodes with them doing scary ****.
ReplyDeleteMetatron took out his grace completely so I expect him to be on same power level as Future Cas (which didn't seem to be much if any at all).
ReplyDeleteI agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't think it was the monster but the flow of the mytharc that was the biggest problem.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the Dean look looks best on Jensen and that they put too much products in Jared's hair sometimes.
ReplyDeleteHaha, that's how I feel. I love short hair on guys. Not close shaven, but Dean and Castiel length and numerous other characters on TV shows, yes!
ReplyDeleteI hated Cas not getting a proper redemption arch too. Not only was it a cop-out it would have made good story instead of making Cas a total joke.
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