Thank god they god rid of the red-headed skank. I'm a little upset about how they handled the climb and I'm definitely not bending on the whole Loras-Must-Wed situation, but it was an ok episode. Just ok though.
This was the weakest of the Season 3 episodes to me, but still great!
I liked many of the changes from the books so that was not an issue, but none of the scenes really took my breath away this week.
I found the Jaime "I fail at dinner" scene quite fun and I'm waiting for the meme to go viral! XD
Tyrion and Cersei bonding was nice, but not brilliant like it often is.
I did enjoy Tywin vs Olenna, and Varys vs Littlefinger, but I think the scenes that stand out to me are The Brotherhood without Banners this week!
Seeing Melisandre in a bit of shock that the naer-do-well Thoros had R'hllor's gifts was prceless. I will admit though, I do not find Carice van Houten to be all that attractive and definitely NOT the type that make all men drool as they attempted to portray her. I loved Arya's reaction, I guess I agree with her! XD
Also the literal climb of the wall was too over the top for me. It was like something from a Michael Bey movie complete with natural disaster and "breath-taking" last second rescues.
Also, I may be in the minority, but I get it!! Theon is being tortured. Theon thinks hedeserves it. Theon has no idea who is holding him and neither does the non-reader audience for the most part. I find the scenes repetitive and one gruesom scene would be enough. I just do not need 3 or 4 or more yet to come!
Speaking of gruesome scenes. Poor Ros! I was more of a fan than most and honestly will not miss her, but damn! Littlefinger is pure ice cold and Jughead is just a little sadist! Of course I knw both of these things already. XD
Overall to me this was a place-setter episode really setting up the big scenes and story points to come in the next 3 episodes. Bring on next week!
I deeply disliked what they did with the climb, I agree with you that it felt like a Michael Bay movie, the only purpose of it (and the ending scene) was to make the audience fall for Jon and Ygritte as a couple because of you-know-what. I never liked Theon and would feel much better if he were to be almost completely forgotten this season as he was on Book 3 and I never liked Ros either so this was like the authors redeeming themselves to me hahaha.
I think GRRM knew what he was doing by not writing scene after scene of Theon torture chapters. D&D love Alfie Allen so they tried to give him extra screen time and for me it is backfiring, but maybe others are enjoying the torture porn?
Best part of the Ros death is not having to hear Ros-haters anymore! XD I'm glad they can now move on....
I wrote somewhere else that I understand why they killed off Ros. She had basically played her part/s and there was no real role for her after this season. I think the scene had heavy impact in a very brief amount of screen time.
Most of all I am happy they did not show Joffrey shooting her multiple times.... The aftermath alone was more effective!
I had to switch over to another tab on my computer during that haha... I don't tend to think I'm squeamish, but this show has gotten me two weeks in a row. I couldn't handle Jamie's trip to the doctor last week either!
I understand the TV show needs to change some things from the book but still. An entire episode and not a single scene that's canon from the book :/ Not a fan tbh
Jughead. bwhahaha. I have missed that one in the comments.
I'm trying to suss out what you're referring to with regard to "The Brotherhood without Banners" Do you mean the scene when they took Robert's son (sorry I am blanking on his name)? The whole sequence or just that taking of him.
Tywin and Olenna was my favorite. Diana Rigg is awesome
I'm glad they show the Theon scenes, because his fate and arc is arguably one of the most interesting ones during that timespan right now in the series. I'm still surprised they show so much of it, though, but I won't complain because I was afraid they dumped all of that for little flashbacks. ^^
Concerning Melisandre's attractivity I'm somewhat with you, and I find Carice van Houten a lot more attractive than when she's in her character's looks. Well, can't have everything =)
LOL I'd forgotten to mention that "date" scene. I loved that Loras has practically designed the gown. Quesiton...I assume that Loras was on the ship at the end...Did Cersei get shipped off too or is she, theoretically, being sent along later just prior to the wedding?
I came to grips with the face that Sansa will never be the brightest bulb in the room, a long time ago.
Since the series does change aspects I cannot be sure, but I think that the ship was Littlefinger off to the Eyrie. The ship had his little mockingbird on the sails No one else was shipped anywhere I don't think... They were not in the books at least.
I'm not upset we get to see Theon this year. I love Alfie's portrayal and find the TV series Theon much more interesting than the book Theon honestly.
Like you, I'm surprised by the number and length of the scenes. I just find there are too many scenes that are so similar. I think a scene or two less would not have changed the impact and the viewing audience would still realize "Boy" is a psychopath and Theon will be forever changed after his ordeal.
Brian Cogman (one of the writers and the keep of the mythos of the series) recently said in an interview that there are no plans to have flashbacks in the series. So no worries on that front! XD
So I had read about the Ros spoiler before the episode aired but I'm glad its wasn't as graphic as people worried it would be. Like its still awful and I was growing to like the character this season but it shows how ruthless Littlefinger is and how messed up playing the Game is.
Of course the highlight was once again Jaime/Brienne, those crazy kids. Also I thought the ending was kind of beautiful, I like the different endings we are having this season, we had the OH SHIT Jaime losing his hand, then the badass Dany and the Dragons, then the oh damn Tywin is the shittiest father ending and now this quiet but beautiful one.
There were Ros haters? Why in the world would anyone dislike her. As someone who had not read the books (though I am still waging whether to start and finish before the fourth season, but I am not sure if the reveals in the series will have as much of an impact when I have previously read them), I can't find any character that I find annoying (beyond those who were meant to annoy us)
Brienne stabbing the meat for Jamie.....LOLOL........Littlefinger talking at the end to Varys and showing all the scenes priceless.I wont watch the skinning business............too disturbing...of bothe Theon and rabbits
I'm not surprised they have opted to show Theon this series. From numerous standpoints, they had to show it rather than do it the way it is in the books. They need to keep Alfie Allen under contract, and therefore give him something to do, otherwise by the time they get back to him, he might have a long-term job elsewhere. They couldn't expect him to wait, nor pay him from their budget to do nothing. From a story-telling perspective, it is best to show it now in real-time, rather than show an abundance of flashbacks, which, alongside his future present-day stuff, would essentially turn most episodes into The Theon Show. Granted, it is a bit repetitive and graphic, but unlike torture porn, it is essential to the show in showing us how truly awful an ordeal he is going through and bring out more sympathy for him with the audience. Or, going by most people's reaction, give them something to cheer over and call a comeuppance.
Absolutely right. But they could have opted to do some flashbacks next year, and Alfie Allen probably would have been informed about a season-long absence because it would be, well, coming with the character he's playing. Other than that, I also prefer the show-it-now-instead-of-recapping-later way they chose.
Yes, it looks like we're on the path to some pretty major deviations from the books on some fronts, doesn't it? They definitely seem to be setting up a very different trajectory for the Jon/Ygritte story.
You don't see women for pretty much all the time and then you get to see Carice. I think she's hot now, imagine what she'd be like to them... (plus the witch part)
Very enjoyable episode for me, especially the Melissandre (nice foreshadowing with arya) and Climb scenes. It was somewhat over the top (sorry), but it's a TV series, moments like that don't hurt. I didn't mind the Theon getting tortured scene (I don't care for him), although it was a bit long. I could do with a little less Sansa though.
Climbing the wall is another way to commit suicide. I love the view from the wall. It's beautiful. Jon seems to be serious with Ygritte. Good for him. And I believe her that she'll kill him if he betrays her. Do I wanna now what the red bitch (Melisandre, if I'm not wrong) is going to do with Gendry? She'll probably kill him to make sure Stannis is the only heir to the throne. Olenna is one of my favorite characters. "She's old" I love this cool grams. Not one scene with her is boring. She was asking Tywin if he had sex with other guys. And talking about Cersei and Jamie. Then she broke his feather. Prefect. Took Tyrion long enough to demand an explanation for Blackwater. "The boy is an idiot" I love Tyrion. Joffrey is not only an idiot, but also insane. And he was right. Sansa is probably getting the worst out of that arrangement.
Really? How so? I thought it was one of the few in the episode that more closely mirrored the original. Then again, it's been a while since I read SoS so i might have forgotten some stuff
Ah, then that suffered from a lack of clarity. Sansa watching the ship sail and bawling her eyes out after being told she was marrying Tyrion implied strongly, to me at least, that Loras was leaving without her.
That's the one thing I do still have an issue with...the showrunners tend to leave things fuzzy assuming that the entire audience has read the books.
Although the ironic thing is that while Tyrion is loathed by many in the kingdom for being a dwarf, the monster that killed his mother during birth, he actually treats his women better than most men. Well, if you can get past the whoring at least! XD
He has actually shown concern and respect for Sansa the entire time she has been in Kings Landing. Yet everyone's (including Tyrion himself) reacts with disgust on Sansa's behalf.
At least they made Sansa more sympathetic in the TV series by not having her betrayal directly lead to Ned's death like in the books.
Yes! Sophie is T-A-L-L! She started off average for a young teen girl and then she hit her growth spurt I guess and being so skinny with wide shoulders makes her look even taller at times!
The books are very open ended or "fuzzy" like that too. GRRM will give you the information (often times in earlier chapters or other areas of the story) and expect the reader to piece it together for themselves.
For many of the smallfol seeing a clean woman who bathes regularly is a sight to behold! XD
I guess I thought Carice was a very bad fit when she was castfor Melisandre and still do. She is not exotic to me in any way like Mel is described, and she does not seem to be able to influence men with her sex appeal like in the books. I really considered Melisandre a femme fetale in the books I guess.
As the books describe her.. "A great beauty" "taller than most knights" "full breasts with a narrow waist"
Oh well, it does not bother me 90% of the time honestly. Just that one scene reminded me how show Melisandre is so little like the books physically.
I'm positive that Ygritte knowing Jon is still loyal to the Night's Watch is NOT in the book--hence my speculation that the Jon/Ygritte story is going to unfold very differently from how it does in the books. Melisandre turning up to claim Gendry means that he's going to sub in for a different character in the books and therefore suggests another significant narrative variation. And other differences seem to be asusming more importance. The deviations from the book series (as of the end of book three, still as far as I've gotten) are beginning to add up, though so far at least the story is much closer to the source material than is, say, The Walking Dead.
I ought to be inured to such things, given how much violent entertainment I've absorbed over the years, but I actually couldn't look for a few seconds.... :X
Ros was not really in the books at all. There was one unnamed redhead whore, but nor "Ros"... She is basically the combination of 2 or 3 minor whores and then D&D created a lot of new scenes specifically for her.
But yes, on forums where most people have read the books in the first two seasons it was very common to read reactions like "kill her already", "she ruins every episode she's in" or "why do they keep giving her scenes she can;t act, just get naked silently!"
Personally I always liked Ros and thought Esme did a great job performing her character!
It did look that way, but given that the Tyrells have to stay for the Joffrey wedding, they can't be leaving--and it's not their emblem on the boat, anyway. I think she's crying because she knows she has to marry Tyrion and sees one of the few (apparent) protectors she has sailing off. Could have been clearer.
... which is a bit much to expect with such long books, and even moreso given the geezly long delays between volumes! Volume one was published in 1996, for heaven's sake, and we're still two volumes (at least) from the end!!!!!
I get the logic behind it, but that same train of thought worries me when it comes to later stories.
Think of Lady Stone heart for instance.... In my opinion she should be off screen for most of, if not all, of the season.
Will they create scenes to keep her on the show and in people's mind? To me that ruins the introduction of the character.... and one of the more shocking moments of the books.
Yes, she is much more tolerable--not to mention taller lol!--in the TV show. The height thing just really hit me in that scene with Shae. Now, Shae's not exactly big, admittedly but for a second, I wondered, "is Sansa standing on a stool or something?" It does add a certain potential for comic relief with some of what ought to be coming up (a certain wedding moment, for instance).
So true. It really is the type of series you ahve to read multiple times to catch elements. Even relatively "obvious" and more direct hints can be overlooked with so much going on on any given page.
I have read the early books 4 or 5 times now and each time a new book comes out it changes how I interpret information in the early books.
I think ti makes for a great series because of that, but it is frustrating at times too.
Agreed. She has won me over for the most part, just so different from how I pictured her.
Outside of age differences my perception of the characters have been very similar to how they are portrayed in the series. She is one of the few that is VERY different. CvH has done a good job though, I won't say anything against her performance.
It may not be "Exotic" but one day I still hope to travel to the Netherlands! Trace my family name through some obscure Rotterdam archives since I cannot find any information farther back then the generation that left Holland and immigrated to the US right now.
While watching the episode I loved every moment of it however having read the books I disliked most of the changes.
The few things like tyrion telling sansa they would be married instead of the queen telling her, having ser loris be the only son of house tyrell instead of having him be a young brother to willas tyrell and in the kingsguard, having jojen reed dream about jon, etc. where minor changes i could stand.
Personally I liked the wall climb it looked like it was written in the book just with different character on the wall and no one died on the wall.
However I hated everything in the Riverland it was so wrong. Melissander meeting Arya, Thoros and Beric is a huge change from the book. Also the whole val monglus thing was never part of the red priests personality it was always Arya's story. In my opinion this really alters the way the would do the show once they get to book 5.
One of my favourite things from book 3 is sam's story. I hate that they just had sam talk about the dragger. When he pulled it out and they were sitting around the fire i thought things were really going to get good. The show is making sam stay a wimp and in the book he became a hero i will really hate it if he doesn't get his spot light before the end of this season.
It was my least favorite episode of the season, by faaar. Then again, the season has been mind blowing, so that is not saying much. I loved Arya, Greyjoy and Rob's scenes, as well as everything going on in King's Landing (I feel so bad for Sansa and man, do I love the Tyrells), but I simply cannot bring myself to care for anything assoiated with the wall and we spent way too much time in there today. I also don't like the red woman either, so I also can't care for those scenes, even though I liked her scene with Arya. It wasn't bad, but it was far from on par with the previous ones - my problem was too much focus on arcs I don't care. I don't know why but I really can't care for John Snow.
He killed Ros was his sex toy, erm I mean crossbow.
Ros was one of Littlefinger's whores, turned madam, turned confidant and when she decided to betray him and give information to Varys, Littlefinger suggested Joff use her as target practice.
Why is everybody so mean?!?! Would I visit this site if I would mind spoilers? Spoilers are the reason I visit this site. Spoilers and the chance to talk about my favorite shows. So, talk!
To tell you the truth, I never paid much attention to Melisandre so I can't remember everything she said.
Ah, but other people reading the thread might mind them very much! So, if you don't want Gendry's likely fate spoiled, don't read on SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPCAE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE OK, that ought to do it. To cast certain spells, Melisandra needs the blood of a King. As the son of the King, Gendry carries that blood. But, does she need to kill him to get enough? And will stannis allow her to do so, even if it would increase his chances of becoming king? These are the questions!
This episode was not as good as the others in season 3, but still, it is the best entertainment on Tv. :-) I just cannot get myself to like Melisandre. She is different from the books and though I never cared for her in the books, she is worse on Tv. Theons story doesn´t do a whole lot for me either.
Jaime and Brienne were great - as always. The Queen of Thornes was brilliant, I love the Tyrells, such strong women. I have always enjoyed Littlefinger and Lord Varys talks, and this one did not disappoint. Jon and Ygritte´s story is ok. I liked it A LOT better in the books, but there is also a lot more information and feelings described. Once more....where is Ghost??????? Miss him!
With Gendry replacing Edric Storm, and knowing what his fate is in the books, I wonder if D&D will create storylines just for him, too? To keep him relevant in the audience's minds, even though he has nothing to do but hurry up and wait til the end of the show.
I wouldn't skip them. She's dumb as a sack of hammers in the beginning, but she's the character who goes through the biggest of transformations. By A Dance With Dragons, you'll hardly realize this is the same Sansa Stark! Don't miss out on a great character evolution! I say this as someone who couldn't stand her in the beginning either.
I like him replacing Edric in theory, but yea..... I'm not sure what they will do for Season's 5 and on... Will we then replace Ser Hyle Hunt? XD
Personally I'm OK with not seeing some characters in the middle seasons if they do not play an integral role.After next year do we need to see more of Gendry, or the BWoB?
You could at least say spoiler alert before spilling the beans! I'm reading this because everyone else has the decency not to spoil it for others,and if they do at least they give fair warning...thanks for blowing it!
Lord Vary's had singled her out I think was at the end of last season, telling her she had really been wasting her "talents" with Little Finger, as he saw her as someone with intelligence. He persuaded her to be his confidant. (It's a funny scene because he visits her "at work" and given Lord Vary's unic situation, Ross reaction was more than nonchalant!) In the episode before this, she is the one who figured out by going through Little Finger's papers that he had booked a sea voyage for "two", which led to the speculation that L.F. was going to take Sansa with him...
I like Endeavor quite a bit, Silk is well done (but I do not like law shows), I did like The Lady Vanishes quite a bit, but I never have never watched Lewis.
"Seeing Melisandre in a bit of shock that the naer-do-well Thoros had R'hllor's gifts so strongly was prceless. I will admit though, I do not find Carice van Houten to be all that attractive and definitely NOT the type that make all men drool as they attempted to portray her. I loved Arya's reaction, I guess I agree with her! XD"
I think she looks way better this season, than last season, but I find her personality and body language to be a big put off! Glad Arya has some sense!!! :P
"Also the literal climb of the wall was too over the top for me. It was like something from a Michael Bey movie complete with natural disaster and "breath-taking" last second rescues."
Well when you put it like that! :O
-I actually really liked the scene (granted I have nothing to compare it to, because I did not read the book), because of the montage leading up to it with Little Finger's voice over....There was all of these dark things in those scenes, suggesting the idea of "the climb" as something distasteful and then the writers turn around and contrast those things to something so much larger than life and epiclly beautiful, as it also followed scenes about Jon Snow/Ygritte and trust.
Well in an odd way she is exotic, simply because she isn't typical of what most of us think exotic is. So in a way, she does stand out, but I agree that it isn't an an attractive way. There's something too "direct" in her dialogue (and movements) that takes away from any real femininity she might have...
To me it was so over-the-top. One of the reasons I like GRRM's books so much is that he strives to make the unbelievable feel real. That scene made the very real (rock climbing) seem unbelievable! It was the most Hollywood scene of the series so far.
The way one man holding 3 falling adults with a little 5-inch bladed ice axe and some crampons made from antlers was beyond my suspension of disbelief... Nevermind Orell struggling to slice away at a taut rope with 300+ pounds hanging from it happening so slowly that it allowed Jon and Ygritte to swing to safety (of course said rope would be pulled even tighter by the swinging and even more likely to just snap as soon as the blade penetrated) ... ACK!.
It was lazy writing in my mind. Avalanche sure, they happen, but I wish they would have written it differently. Especially the ridiculous trying to saw through the taut rope bit. Haven't they seen Vertical Limit? Down't they know it is one of the more mocked scenes in movie history for its lack of realism?
The kiss at the top I can understand, even if it was different than the books. However, I was annoyed that in three seasons of looking down from The Wall we have never seen a clear shot or one with bright and warm colors! Every look out from the Wall I recall has been bleak, foggy or hazy, and shades of grey. That is... until they wanted a romantic moment. Then they superimposed some Mediterranean sunset! XD
Yeah I find the character creepy too. The actress is attractive enough for sure, but just not exotic from the far off East to me.
I hate to even bring up a character's attractiveness since it is so subjective to the viewer or the characters viewing her even, but I think even if we remove Melisandre's "beauty" from the equation we can all agree she is not exotic in the series.We saw exotic beauty in Essos when Dany visited Qarth, or even her handmaidens from the first two years, or of course Missandei her translator is exotic too!
Thanks. That's a little disappointment, but only because of the reading I'm doing. I thought I was sufficiently ahead of the story. I find the reading more satisfying if I haven't seen the story play out yet. I enjoy comparing my own imagination with that of the producers of the show.
Dude. All she did was be inconsequential and provide an ear for other characters to talk about themselves. This intense hatred for such a low key fictional character is fucked up.
What makes you think I feel "intense hatred" towards her? I just think she was a complete waste of time, used mostly to add unecessary sex scenes and serve as a plot device to substitute any other character from the books the producers don't feel like casting. I'm glad we're done with her.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Good episode. Thought I was going to come out of my OWN skin when Theon started to get peeled. Still can't believe I feel almost sorry for the guy....
ReplyDeleteThank god they god rid of the red-headed skank. I'm a little upset about how they handled the climb and I'm definitely not bending on the whole Loras-Must-Wed situation, but it was an ok episode. Just ok though.
ReplyDeleteGot*
ReplyDeleteThis was the weakest of the Season 3 episodes to me, but still great!
ReplyDeleteI liked many of the changes from the books so that was not an issue, but none of the scenes really took my breath away this week.
I found the Jaime "I fail at dinner" scene quite fun and I'm waiting for the meme to go viral! XD
Tyrion and Cersei bonding was nice, but not brilliant like it often is.
I did enjoy Tywin vs Olenna, and Varys vs Littlefinger, but I think the scenes that stand out to me are The Brotherhood without Banners this week!
Seeing Melisandre in a bit of shock that the naer-do-well Thoros had R'hllor's gifts was prceless. I will admit though, I do not find Carice van Houten to be all that attractive and definitely NOT the type that make all men drool as they attempted to portray her. I loved Arya's reaction, I guess I agree with her! XD
Also the literal climb of the wall was too over the top for me. It was like something from a Michael Bey movie complete with natural disaster and "breath-taking" last second rescues.
Also, I may be in the minority, but I get it!!
Theon is being tortured. Theon thinks hedeserves it. Theon has no idea who is holding him and neither does the non-reader audience for the most part. I find the scenes repetitive and one gruesom scene would be enough. I just do not need 3 or 4 or more yet to come!
Speaking of gruesome scenes. Poor Ros!
I was more of a fan than most and honestly will not miss her, but damn! Littlefinger is pure ice cold and Jughead is just a little sadist! Of course I knw both of these things already. XD
Overall to me this was a place-setter episode really setting up the big scenes and story points to come in the next 3 episodes. Bring on next week!
I deeply disliked what they did with the climb, I agree with you that it felt like a Michael Bay movie, the only purpose of it (and the ending scene) was to make the audience fall for Jon and Ygritte as a couple because of you-know-what. I never liked Theon and would feel much better if he were to be almost completely forgotten this season as he was on Book 3 and I never liked Ros either so this was like the authors redeeming themselves to me hahaha.
ReplyDeleteI think GRRM knew what he was doing by not writing scene after scene of Theon torture chapters. D&D love Alfie Allen so they tried to give him extra screen time and for me it is backfiring, but maybe others are enjoying the torture porn?
ReplyDeleteBest part of the Ros death is not having to hear Ros-haters anymore! XD
I'm glad they can now move on....
I wrote somewhere else that I understand why they killed off Ros. She had basically played her part/s and there was no real role for her after this season. I think the scene had heavy impact in a very brief amount of screen time.
ReplyDeleteMost of all I am happy they did not show Joffrey shooting her multiple times.... The aftermath alone was more effective!
Hahahaha I guess we can.
ReplyDeleteI had to switch over to another tab on my computer during that haha... I don't tend to think I'm squeamish, but this show has gotten me two weeks in a row. I couldn't handle Jamie's trip to the doctor last week either!
ReplyDeleteI don't like it when there's no Danny but it was ok
ReplyDeleteI understand the TV show needs to change some things from the book but still. An entire episode and not a single scene that's canon from the book :/ Not a fan tbh
ReplyDeleteMust say I am enjoying this season a lot more than I did last season.
ReplyDeleteJughead. bwhahaha. I have missed that one in the comments.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to suss out what you're referring to with regard to "The Brotherhood without Banners" Do you mean the scene when they took Robert's son (sorry I am blanking on his name)? The whole sequence or just that taking of him.
Tywin and Olenna was my favorite. Diana Rigg is awesome
I'm glad they show the Theon scenes, because his fate and arc is arguably one of the most interesting ones during that timespan right now in the series. I'm still surprised they show so much of it, though, but I won't complain because I was afraid they dumped all of that for little flashbacks. ^^
ReplyDeleteConcerning Melisandre's attractivity I'm somewhat with you, and I find Carice van Houten a lot more attractive than when she's in her character's looks. Well, can't have everything =)
LOL I'd forgotten to mention that "date" scene. I loved that Loras has practically designed the gown. Quesiton...I assume that Loras was on the ship at the end...Did Cersei get shipped off too or is she, theoretically, being sent along later just prior to the wedding?
ReplyDeleteI came to grips with the face that Sansa will never be the brightest bulb in the room, a long time ago.
Every time I see GRRM the *first* thing my brain this is "Grimm" then the light comes on and I realize it's a reference to the author.
ReplyDeleteAll of those short scenes strung together into one long segment really.
ReplyDelete- Anguy "teaching" Arya how to shoot the bow as drunk Thoros watched with a smirk.
- Melisandre meeting undead Beric and wondering how in the hell this drunken fool of a priest has the power to bring Beric back to life 6 times! XD
- Thoros telling his backstory and learning his mission was to convert Robert.
- Arya's reaction to Thoros and Beric trading Gendry to Mel for cash.
- Melisandre's prophetical words to Arya.
Since the series does change aspects I cannot be sure, but I think that the ship was Littlefinger off to the Eyrie. The ship had his little mockingbird on the sails No one else was shipped anywhere I don't think... They were not in the books at least.
ReplyDelete.
I'm not upset we get to see Theon this year. I love Alfie's portrayal and find the TV series Theon much more interesting than the book Theon honestly.
ReplyDeleteLike you, I'm surprised by the number and length of the scenes. I just find there are too many scenes that are so similar. I think a scene or two less would not have changed the impact and the viewing audience would still realize "Boy" is a psychopath and Theon will be forever changed after his ordeal.
Brian Cogman (one of the writers and the keep of the mythos of the series) recently said in an interview that there are no plans to have flashbacks in the series. So no worries on that front! XD
I can agree with that =)
ReplyDeleteSo I had read about the Ros spoiler before the episode aired but I'm glad its wasn't as graphic as people worried it would be. Like its still awful and I was growing to like the character this season but it shows how ruthless Littlefinger is and how messed up playing the Game is.
ReplyDeleteOf course the highlight was once again Jaime/Brienne, those crazy kids. Also I thought the ending was kind of beautiful, I like the different endings we are having this season, we had the OH SHIT Jaime losing his hand, then the badass Dany and the Dragons, then the oh damn Tywin is the shittiest father ending and now this quiet but beautiful one.
There were Ros haters? Why in the world would anyone dislike her. As someone who had not read the books (though I am still waging whether to start and finish before the fourth season, but I am not sure if the reveals in the series will have as much of an impact when I have previously read them), I can't find any character that I find annoying (beyond those who were meant to annoy us)
ReplyDeleteBrienne stabbing the meat for Jamie.....LOLOL........Littlefinger talking at the end to Varys and showing all the scenes priceless.I wont watch the skinning business............too disturbing...of bothe Theon and rabbits
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised they have opted to show Theon this series. From numerous standpoints, they had to show it rather than do it the way it is in the books. They need to keep Alfie Allen under contract, and therefore give him something to do, otherwise by the time they get back to him, he might have a long-term job elsewhere. They couldn't expect him to wait, nor pay him from their budget to do nothing. From a story-telling perspective, it is best to show it now in real-time, rather than show an abundance of flashbacks, which, alongside his future present-day stuff, would essentially turn most episodes into The Theon Show. Granted, it is a bit repetitive and graphic, but unlike torture porn, it is essential to the show in showing us how truly awful an ordeal he is going through and bring out more sympathy for him with the audience. Or, going by most people's reaction, give them something to cheer over and call a comeuppance.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely right. But they could have opted to do some flashbacks next year, and Alfie Allen probably would have been informed about a season-long absence because it would be, well, coming with the character he's playing. Other than that, I also prefer the show-it-now-instead-of-recapping-later way they chose.
ReplyDeleteSansa's my least favourite character--dumber than a bag of hammers. The actress who play her, though--man, is she tall or what?
ReplyDeleteWhat happened with Tywin/Olenna was Olenna gave in and agreed to have Loras marry Sersei, to save him from the King's Guard.
ReplyDeleteYes, it looks like we're on the path to some pretty major deviations from the books on some fronts, doesn't it? They definitely seem to be setting up a very different trajectory for the Jon/Ygritte story.
ReplyDeleteYou don't see women for pretty much all the time and then you get to see Carice. I think she's hot now, imagine what she'd be like to them... (plus the witch part)
ReplyDeleteVery enjoyable episode for me, especially the Melissandre (nice foreshadowing with arya) and Climb scenes. It was somewhat over the top (sorry), but it's a TV series, moments like that don't hurt. I didn't mind the Theon getting tortured scene (I don't care for him), although it was a bit long. I could do with a little less Sansa though.
ReplyDeleteClimbing the wall is another way to commit suicide. I love the view from the wall. It's beautiful. Jon seems to be serious with Ygritte. Good for him. And I believe her that she'll kill him if he betrays her.
ReplyDeleteDo I wanna now what the red bitch (Melisandre, if I'm not wrong) is going to do with Gendry? She'll probably kill him to make sure Stannis is the only heir to the throne.
Olenna is one of my favorite characters. "She's old" I love this cool grams. Not one scene with her is boring. She was asking Tywin if he had sex with other guys. And talking about Cersei and Jamie. Then she broke his feather. Prefect.
Took Tyrion long enough to demand an explanation for Blackwater. "The boy is an idiot" I love Tyrion. Joffrey is not only an idiot, but also insane. And he was right. Sansa is probably getting the worst out of that arrangement.
Really? How so? I thought it was one of the few in the episode that more closely mirrored the original. Then again, it's been a while since I read SoS so i might have forgotten some stuff
ReplyDeleteAh, then that suffered from a lack of clarity. Sansa watching the ship sail and bawling her eyes out after being told she was marrying Tyrion implied strongly, to me at least, that Loras was leaving without her.
ReplyDeleteThat's the one thing I do still have an issue with...the showrunners tend to leave things fuzzy assuming that the entire audience has read the books.
It was a good episode, but not as brilliant as the last ones.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the ironic thing is that while Tyrion is loathed by many in the kingdom for being a dwarf, the monster that killed his mother during birth, he actually treats his women better than most men. Well, if you can get past the whoring at least! XD
ReplyDeleteHe has actually shown concern and respect for Sansa the entire time she has been in Kings Landing. Yet everyone's (including Tyrion himself) reacts with disgust on Sansa's behalf.
I don't recall Ygritte saying she knew Jon was loyal to the Night's Watch still in the books... I could have forgotten though perhaps.
ReplyDeleteAt least they made Sansa more sympathetic in the TV series by not having her betrayal directly lead to Ned's death like in the books.
ReplyDeleteYes! Sophie is T-A-L-L!
She started off average for a young teen girl and then she hit her growth spurt I guess and being so skinny with wide shoulders makes her look even taller at times!
The books are very open ended or "fuzzy" like that too. GRRM will give you the information (often times in earlier chapters or other areas of the story) and expect the reader to piece it together for themselves.
ReplyDeleteNo, I know thatt's true.
ReplyDeleteFor many of the smallfol seeing a clean woman who bathes regularly is a sight to behold! XD
I guess I thought Carice was a very bad fit when she was castfor Melisandre and still do. She is not exotic to me in any way like Mel is described, and she does not seem to be able to influence men with her sex appeal like in the books. I really considered Melisandre a femme fetale in the books I guess.
As the books describe her..
"A great beauty"
"taller than most knights"
"full breasts with a narrow waist"
Oh well, it does not bother me 90% of the time honestly. Just that one scene reminded me how show Melisandre is so little like the books physically.
I'm positive that Ygritte knowing Jon is still loyal to the Night's Watch is NOT in the book--hence my speculation that the Jon/Ygritte story is going to unfold very differently from how it does in the books. Melisandre turning up to claim Gendry means that he's going to sub in for a different character in the books and therefore suggests another significant narrative variation. And other differences seem to be asusming more importance. The deviations from the book series (as of the end of book three, still as far as I've gotten) are beginning to add up, though so far at least the story is much closer to the source material than is, say, The Walking Dead.
ReplyDeleteI ought to be inured to such things, given how much violent entertainment I've absorbed over the years, but I actually couldn't look for a few seconds.... :X
ReplyDeleteRos was not really in the books at all. There was one unnamed redhead whore, but nor "Ros"... She is basically the combination of 2 or 3 minor whores and then D&D created a lot of new scenes specifically for her.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, on forums where most people have read the books in the first two seasons it was very common to read reactions like "kill her already", "she ruins every episode she's in" or "why do they keep giving her scenes she can;t act, just get naked silently!"
Personally I always liked Ros and thought Esme did a great job performing her character!
It did look that way, but given that the Tyrells have to stay for the Joffrey wedding, they can't be leaving--and it's not their emblem on the boat, anyway. I think she's crying because she knows she has to marry Tyrion and sees one of the few (apparent) protectors she has sailing off. Could have been clearer.
ReplyDelete... which is a bit much to expect with such long books, and even moreso given the geezly long delays between volumes! Volume one was published in 1996, for heaven's sake, and we're still two volumes (at least) from the end!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI get the logic behind it, but that same train of thought worries me when it comes to later stories.
ReplyDeleteThink of Lady Stone heart for instance.... In my opinion she should be off screen for most of, if not all, of the season.
Will they create scenes to keep her on the show and in people's mind? To me that ruins the introduction of the character.... and one of the more shocking moments of the books.
Yes, she is much more tolerable--not to mention taller lol!--in the TV show. The height thing just really hit me in that scene with Shae. Now, Shae's not exactly big, admittedly but for a second, I wondered, "is Sansa standing on a stool or something?" It does add a certain potential for comic relief with some of what ought to be coming up (a certain wedding moment, for instance).
ReplyDeletehmmm ... yes, Gendry being Robert's son is central to why Melisandre wants him, but I don't think her plans are quite what you think.... :p
ReplyDeleteAll things considered, Tyrion is actually about the best thing Sansa could hope for in a husband....
ReplyDeleteSo true.
ReplyDeleteIt really is the type of series you ahve to read multiple times to catch elements. Even relatively "obvious" and more direct hints can be overlooked with so much going on on any given page.
I have read the early books 4 or 5 times now and each time a new book comes out it changes how I interpret information in the early books.
I think ti makes for a great series because of that, but it is frustrating at times too.
Thank you. I couldn't tell what exactly she meant by snapping the quill.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteShe has won me over for the most part, just so different from how I pictured her.
Outside of age differences my perception of the characters have been very similar to how they are portrayed in the series. She is one of the few that is VERY different. CvH has done a good job though, I won't say anything against her performance.
It may not be "Exotic" but one day I still hope to travel to the Netherlands! Trace my family name through some obscure Rotterdam archives since I cannot find any information farther back then the generation that left Holland and immigrated to the US right now.
The actress is extremely attractive but the character, Melisandre, is supposed to be a extremely attractive in the books.
ReplyDeleteWhile watching the episode I loved every moment of it however having read the books I disliked most of the changes.
ReplyDeleteThe few things like tyrion telling sansa they would be married instead of the queen telling her, having ser loris be the only son of house tyrell instead of having him be a young brother to willas tyrell and in the kingsguard, having jojen reed dream about jon, etc. where minor changes i could stand.
Personally I liked the wall climb it looked like it was written in the book just with different character on the wall and no one died on the wall.
However I hated everything in the Riverland it was so wrong. Melissander meeting Arya, Thoros and Beric is a huge change from the book. Also the whole val monglus thing was never part of the red priests personality it was always Arya's story. In my opinion this really alters the way the would do the show once they get to book 5.
They can still end jon and ygritte's story the same way but Melisandre meeting Arya could really throw a wrench in the story.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favourite things from book 3 is sam's story. I hate that they just had sam talk about the dragger. When he pulled it out and they were sitting around the fire i thought things were really going to get good. The show is making sam stay a wimp and in the book he became a hero i will really hate it if he doesn't get his spot light before the end of this season.
ReplyDeleteSeeing as there is no other legit finale act for him this season I guess they are keeping it for his story's finale scene I bet... I hope!
ReplyDeleteOk,i just finished watching it,could someone tell me who Joffrey harpooned to death and why?
ReplyDeleteIt could still end the same way, yes, but if it does, I suspect the route there will be very different.
ReplyDeleteI've read book three, so I know what her plans are in there--but no spoilers, sorry! (Yes, that's very mean of me to taunt you like that! :p)
ReplyDeleteI would interpret that as her way of getting him not to sign the order in a way that still lets her be a bit aggressive towards him.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I would be extremely surprised if we don't see Sam use that dagger by season's end.
ReplyDeleteI have read through the third book. Without getting specific, are they borrowing material from later novels to fill out character arcs in this season?
ReplyDeleteIt was my least favorite episode of the season, by faaar. Then again, the season has been mind blowing, so that is not saying much. I loved Arya, Greyjoy and Rob's scenes, as well as everything going on in King's Landing (I feel so bad for Sansa and man, do I love the Tyrells), but I simply cannot bring myself to care for anything assoiated with the wall and we spent way too much time in there today. I also don't like the red woman either, so I also can't care for those scenes, even though I liked her scene with Arya. It wasn't bad, but it was far from on par with the previous ones - my problem was too much focus on arcs I don't care. I don't know why but I really can't care for John Snow.
ReplyDeleteOlenna rocks! She was the best thing about this episode!
ReplyDeleteHe killed Ros was his sex toy, erm I mean crossbow.
ReplyDeleteRos was one of Littlefinger's whores, turned madam, turned confidant and when she decided to betray him and give information to Varys, Littlefinger suggested Joff use her as target practice.
I will not give any true spoilers either, but I will give you a little help.
ReplyDeleteIt all has to do with something Stannis said to Melisandre as she was preparing to leave Dragonstone in an earlier episode this season.
Agreed. I think a lot of personal arcs will float away from book canon and then end up at virtually the same key point later.
ReplyDeleteLike you said, they will arrive at the same destinations, but they will sometimes take alternative routes to get there.
Then don't be mean and tell me ;))
ReplyDeleteI don't mind spoilers
She does. She's so cool. I wish she'd be my grams.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everybody so mean?!?! Would I visit this site if I would mind spoilers? Spoilers are the reason I visit this site. Spoilers and the chance to talk about my favorite shows. So, talk!
ReplyDeleteTo tell you the truth, I never paid much attention to Melisandre so I can't remember everything she said.
Ah, but other people reading the thread might mind them very much!
ReplyDeleteSo, if you don't want Gendry's likely fate spoiled, don't read on
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OK, that ought to do it.
To cast certain spells, Melisandra needs the blood of a King. As the son of the King, Gendry carries that blood. But, does she need to kill him to get enough? And will stannis allow her to do so, even if it would increase his chances of becoming king? These are the questions!
She intends to use his blood to kill people. That was Melisandre usually does killing people. Either by burning them at stakes or using her powers
ReplyDeleteThis episode was not as good as the others in season 3, but still, it is the best entertainment on Tv. :-)
ReplyDeleteI just cannot get myself to like Melisandre. She is different from the books and though I never cared for her in the books, she is worse on Tv.
Theons story doesn´t do a whole lot for me either.
Jaime and Brienne were great - as always. The Queen of Thornes was brilliant, I love the Tyrells, such strong women. I have always enjoyed Littlefinger and Lord Varys talks, and this one did not disappoint.
Jon and Ygritte´s story is ok. I liked it A LOT better in the books, but there is also a lot more information and feelings described. Once more....where is Ghost??????? Miss him!
Fine, then I'll create a gmail account only for spoilers, so you can sent them directly to me J
ReplyDeleteAnd shouldn't Stannis also have the blood of the king? Or do you mean that his lives blood (as in killing him)?
Given what has to be done with the blood, even assuming Stannis would fit the bill, he can hardly use his own....
ReplyDeleteWith Gendry replacing Edric Storm, and knowing what his fate is in the books, I wonder if D&D will create storylines just for him, too? To keep him relevant in the audience's minds, even though he has nothing to do but hurry up and wait til the end of the show.
ReplyDeleteAlso Loras will still be there because Tywin basically conscripted him into the Kingsguard.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't skip them. She's dumb as a sack of hammers in the beginning, but she's the character who goes through the biggest of transformations. By A Dance With Dragons, you'll hardly realize this is the same Sansa Stark! Don't miss out on a great character evolution! I say this as someone who couldn't stand her in the beginning either.
ReplyDeleteI like him replacing Edric in theory, but yea..... I'm not sure what they will do for Season's 5 and on... Will we then replace Ser Hyle Hunt? XD
ReplyDeletePersonally I'm OK with not seeing some characters in the middle seasons if they do not play an integral role.After next year do we need to see more of Gendry, or the BWoB?
I know she belonged to Littlefinger (sex toy is right!) and his confidant but i don't remember her betraying him...
ReplyDeleteYou could at least say spoiler alert before spilling the beans! I'm reading this because everyone else has the decency not to spoil it for others,and if they do at least they give fair warning...thanks for blowing it!
ReplyDeleteLord Vary's had singled her out I think was at the end of last season, telling her she had really been wasting her "talents" with Little Finger, as he saw her as someone with intelligence. He persuaded her to be his confidant. (It's a funny scene because he visits her "at work" and given Lord Vary's unic situation, Ross reaction was more than nonchalant!) In the episode before this, she is the one who figured out by going through Little Finger's papers that he had booked a sea voyage for "two", which led to the speculation that L.F. was going to take Sansa with him...
ReplyDeleteThat's right,i forgot.He bought two mattresses.Thanks for jogging my memory,whats left of it,ha!
ReplyDeleteOff topic:
ReplyDeleteI just read an article listing some of the PBS programming schedule for the Summer. OF course MAsterpiece: Mystery is made up of UK series! XD
http://www.anglotopia.net/british-entertainment/brit-tv/pbs-reveals-summer-programming/
I like Endeavor quite a bit, Silk is well done (but I do not like law shows), I did like The Lady Vanishes quite a bit, but I never have never watched Lewis.
Sure! It's amazing I remember right now, as i feel like I'm on TV and Life overload! :p
ReplyDelete"Seeing Melisandre in a bit of shock that the naer-do-well Thoros had R'hllor's gifts so strongly was prceless. I will admit though, I do not find Carice van Houten to be all that attractive and definitely NOT the type that make all men drool as they attempted to portray her. I loved Arya's reaction, I guess I agree with her! XD"
ReplyDeleteI think she looks way better this season, than last season, but I find her personality and body language to be a big put off! Glad Arya has some sense!!! :P
"Also the literal climb of the wall was too over the top for me. It was like something from a Michael Bey movie complete with natural disaster and "breath-taking" last second rescues."
Well when you put it like that! :O
-I actually really liked the scene (granted I have nothing to compare it to, because I did not read the book), because of the montage leading up to it with Little Finger's voice over....There was all of these dark things in those scenes, suggesting the idea of "the climb" as something distasteful and then the writers turn around and contrast those things to something so much larger than life and epiclly beautiful, as it also followed scenes about Jon Snow/Ygritte and trust.
I was not found of seeing Theon being tortured more either. I know they don't want us to forget about him, but I could do without it!
ReplyDeleteI don't know, maybe HBO has some clause that says wach season of every show on HBO has to have "X" many torture and sex scenes!
Well in an odd way she is exotic, simply because she isn't typical of what most of us think exotic is. So in a way, she does stand out, but I agree that it isn't an an attractive way. There's something too "direct" in her dialogue (and movements) that takes away from any real femininity she might have...
ReplyDeleteRe: The Wall climb
ReplyDeleteTo me it was so over-the-top. One of the reasons I like GRRM's books so much is that he strives to make the unbelievable feel real. That scene made the very real (rock climbing) seem unbelievable! It was the most Hollywood scene of the series so far.
The way one man holding 3 falling adults with a little 5-inch bladed ice axe and some crampons made from antlers was beyond my suspension of disbelief... Nevermind Orell struggling to slice away at a taut rope with 300+ pounds hanging from it happening so slowly that it allowed Jon and Ygritte to swing to safety (of course said rope would be pulled even tighter by the swinging and even more likely to just snap as soon as the blade penetrated) ... ACK!.
It was lazy writing in my mind. Avalanche sure, they happen, but I wish they would have written it differently. Especially the ridiculous trying to saw through the taut rope bit. Haven't they seen Vertical Limit? Down't they know it is one of the more mocked scenes in movie history for its lack of realism?
The kiss at the top I can understand, even if it was different than the books. However, I was annoyed that in three seasons of looking down from The Wall we have never seen a clear shot or one with bright and warm colors! Every look out from the Wall I recall has been bleak, foggy or hazy, and shades of grey. That is... until they wanted a romantic moment. Then they superimposed some Mediterranean sunset! XD
Yeah I find the character creepy too. The actress is attractive enough for sure, but just not exotic from the far off East to me.
ReplyDeleteI hate to even bring up a character's attractiveness since it is so subjective to the viewer or the characters viewing her even, but I think even if we remove Melisandre's "beauty" from the equation we can all agree she is not exotic in the series.We saw exotic beauty in Essos when Dany visited Qarth, or even her handmaidens from the first two years, or of course Missandei her translator is exotic too!
*Shrug*
Yes, they are. Esp. Theon.
ReplyDeleteThanks. That's a little disappointment, but only because of the reading I'm doing. I thought I was sufficiently ahead of the story. I find the reading more satisfying if I haven't seen the story play out yet. I enjoy comparing my own imagination with that of the producers of the show.
ReplyDelete"Thank god they got rid of the red-headed skank."
ReplyDeleteDude. All she did was be inconsequential and provide an ear for other characters to talk about themselves. This intense hatred for such a low key fictional character is fucked up.
What makes you think I feel "intense hatred" towards her? I just think she was a complete waste of time, used mostly to add unecessary sex scenes and serve as a plot device to substitute any other character from the books the producers don't feel like casting. I'm glad we're done with her.
ReplyDelete