WEDNESDAY, MAY 1
SUPERNATURAL - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET)
"The Great Escapist" (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)
FEELING LUCKY TONIGHT? - When Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) receive a distressing video message from Kevin Tran (guest star Osric Chau), they set about trying to uncover the Third Trial. The boys make a discovery that sends them to a casino in Colorado, to find a mysterious recluse (guest star Curtis Armstrong) who may be able to fill in the holes in Kevin's research. Meanwhile, Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) is on a winning streak. Castiel (Misha Collins) tries to elude Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and the angels hunting him. Robert Duncan McNeill directed the episode written by Ben Edlund (#821)
Source: CW
SUPERNATURAL - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET)
"The Great Escapist" (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)
FEELING LUCKY TONIGHT? - When Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) receive a distressing video message from Kevin Tran (guest star Osric Chau), they set about trying to uncover the Third Trial. The boys make a discovery that sends them to a casino in Colorado, to find a mysterious recluse (guest star Curtis Armstrong) who may be able to fill in the holes in Kevin's research. Meanwhile, Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) is on a winning streak. Castiel (Misha Collins) tries to elude Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and the angels hunting him. Robert Duncan McNeill directed the episode written by Ben Edlund (#821)
Source: CW
Yay, Kevin! This sounds like an awesome episode.
ReplyDeleteBooger to the rescue!
ReplyDeleteCastiel!!! YES! This episode will be amazing!!!
ReplyDeleteSounds like too much crammed in one episode to be honest. Too many characters and too much going on. Maybe I'm judging too quickly but that description gives me a headache.
ReplyDeleteMy first response was that it seemed too "busy", so I can well understand your fears. We'll see, though. Things are going to have to get busy simply out of necessity. I do tend to enjoy the last few episodes of a season a little more than the normal filler, so I'm hoping for a great show.
ReplyDeleteUsed to be, seeing Ben Edlund's name on an ep was a cause for celebration. I haven't felt that way since season four. I'm wary. That's all I'm sayin'.
ReplyDeleteKevin, Crowley, Castiel, Naomi, Reclusive guest star; Hmm, maybe they'll have time to fit Dean into the action for four minutes, and Sam might get thirty seconds just to say he wants 'normal' and to give us a "Duh" answer when someone else accuses him of not looking for Dean, before getting knocked out.
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I ask myself why they couldn't they have spread out all of this stuff instead of giving us eps like Bitten, Dog lady, Charlie and annoying Krissy!
If they are still trying to find out what the third trial is it means the Pac-Man ep is definitely only a filler to showcase Charlie; they could have given us more of the myth-arc instead!
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If the end of the season mirrors the beginning, there's not much to be expected from this; just 'more of the same.'
Really Metatron is turning up. Mhmmm is he going to remind people in the three seconds he'll get, (seeing how again everyone and the kitchen sink is appears to be in this one),what the word of Kripke was?
ReplyDeleteStuff closing the gates of hell, I'd like it if the writers attempted to find the canon and the character of Sam that has been established over the past 7 years. Though if they can't can they please find the contract of Bobby Singer's wife and Pal so they can salt and burn it.
Sounds interesting!
ReplyDeleteI agree with every word.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Kripke has had time to watch the eps this season, but I'm sure he'd be tearing the last of his hair out if he saw the way his Supernatural world and its canon has been treated
!!!Sounds like a very interesting episode!!!I always wanted to see Sam and Dean in a casino :P I bet the last trial will not be completed in this episode but apparently they will get some leads on it.Excited to see Metatron!!!I wish Crowley's appearance is very short.Can't stand him anymore.I wiosh he doesn't survive the season.
ReplyDeleteYou're probably right to be, if the rest of the season is anything to go by.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much damage they will manage to do to Canon this time.
It has Castiel, Naiomi, and Kevin, and was written by Edlund, so I'm going to assume right now that I'll find it highly enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteSam and Dean in a casino should be fun. Nice to see Edlund's name on a script again. Any news on who is writing the last two eps?
ReplyDeleteI think it's Dabb and Carver
ReplyDeleteI've seen other shows handle busy episodes just fine. I am a bit wary with a busy SPN episode though.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait. :D
ReplyDeleteIt depend of the writers IMO. Taxi Driver was by the writers of Man's best friend with benefits, Route 666, Heartache...etc. Ben Edlund should know what he's doing
ReplyDeleteYou are definitely right. Way too much stuff to be tossed into one episode. Like Taxi Driver. And are the Men of Letters back on the shelf for the rest of the season?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. My gut feeling was dread when reading this.
ReplyDeletePerhaps in season 10 the MoL will be the key to closing the gates to er...whatever dimension they find themselves dealing with for 4 out of 23 episodes for that season's mytharc.
ReplyDeleteBen Edlund save us please save us. god I miss eric K
ReplyDeleteHe SHOULD. But a lot of writers on here should know what they're doing ...
ReplyDeleteHe's too busy basking in the glory of a hit series on a major network.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more w/you! Why are they cramming all this stuff in single episodes when they could ditch lames episodes like Bitten, LARP, MBFWB, and this next episode, PMF. I'm sorry but that second trial should have been a two-parter. I'm sick of the rushed feeling.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the Edlund bashing. For you I can always understand that he wrote the first Charlie episode maybe, but except couple of things here and there, his episodes are usually good or pretty good. I'm sorry for my long message that will follow, but I need to get it off my chest and ask, been wondering there for a while now.
ReplyDeleteNo offense but if you hate the season so much, why do you keep watching? I'm really, but really not that kind of ''blind'' fan who would put awesome or a 10 on 10 everywhere and all, I don't like things too about this season and the others too, I almost always found couple of things about an episode I didn't like and some episodes I found bad (just to name Bitten and the dog lady episode). But if you're at the point where every single synopsis, promo pic, promo..etc you see is ''its gonna be the worse crappy boring episode ever'' and you can't even wait for the episode to air to judge it; unless the episode is '''''the best ever''''', you'll always feel like it's beyond average/bad cause you started with a very bad perception right from the start.
You probably saw me in the other posts, I really like different opinions and like to debate, but, maybe its just me, i feel like everyone who like the show left (or most of them), or show very rarely, and people remaining just trash every episode and search the worst in every one. It's not even debates anymore. It's the 5 people who are ''this was good, but there was this and this I didn't enjoy or I don't understand why that happen..its not logic'' and the army of people who hate every single aspect of it and can't stand the show. If the show isn't your taste anymore, I'm sure there's others thing for you. Everyone is different. Everytime I see someone who decide to give a chance to an episode, they get an army of thumb down and of negative comments about how the episode will suck, it's not really fun anymore to comment and share differents opinions, it's just depressing. No wonder most of the people I used to debate to are long gone. We almost have to feel guilty to love the show most of the time despite its flaws and the bad episodes here and there.
Maybe this episode is gonna be bad, maybe not. Maybe there's too much stuff, maybe Edlund will be able to deal with it. We'll see when we see it. The bad episodes are in the past, complaining about them in a futur synopsis won't change a thing.
I know I'll have 1000 thumb down and an army of people trying to make my comment delete. I don't mind.
You're not judging too quickly. I felt the same way when I read the description - just way too much going on in one episode. It will be rushed like this past episode w/the 2nd trial.
ReplyDeleteI still like Crowley....well...depend of the episodes, when he's full on evil mode like in the premiere...not too much. But when he has some snarky comments and act like before, I like it :) I'll miss him if he go. I'm wondering how fast they'll close the gates. I'm still thinking that there's something really important missing on Kevin's tablet about the third trial, something about how to do it, or a warning ....or both that will cause big trouble in the finale.
ReplyDeleteNot SPN related, but since there's no place on SpoilerTV to discuss it, i'm wondering if you're still watching Heartland and if you still are, what did you think of sunday's finale? :)
ReplyDeleteSuch a cruel cliffhanger X_X
I don't really think the MoL is a plot thread. It's a world-building element.
ReplyDeleteBen Edlund used to write good episode, IMHO. And it has nothing to do with him writing the Charlie intro. I didn't even remember he'd written it until you pointed it out. Something happened to his edge between now and season four. Some other people have noticed it, too. But that's just my opinion. Anything anyone writes anywhere is an opinion.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I watch? I've been getting that question for several seasons now. I've given up on the show multiple times. I've skipped a LOT of eps this season. The season before. And I threw in the towel completely in mid-season six. Who knows, maybe I WILL give it up again. I do like some things in the episodes, but it's not much anymore. I'm sorry, I know you're only trying to save me from more distress, but it's my business if I want to watch something and complain about what I don't like. Here, I do mostly talk about what I don't like about an ep. I talk about what I LIKE in personal reviews elsewhere.
Maybe I feel compelled to bitch more here because there's so much Sam hate on this board. Not that I'm saying you do it, but it's annoying to see the continual slams. And maybe I'm annoying people with my comments, wouldn't be the first time, certainly won't be the last. Whoever doesn't like it can thumbs down me and move on. I honestly don't care. I've been thumbs'ed down for almost my entire fandom life, being on the unpopular side of opinion.
If this came off as a personal attack, it wasn't meant to be. It's just that question really bugs me.
Yeah (eyeroll lol)- if only Revolution wasn't such a POS. (blech - sorry if you're a fan)
ReplyDeleteIA - Instead of PacMan, RT should have written Part 2 of Taxi Driver. TD was way, way too rushed which resulted in the second trial looking way too easy to complete even though we know it was not. And I really would have liked more BTS Purgatory scenes, specifically FBs of who told Benny about the Human Portal. I assumed it was Naomi and if Benny had told Dean about Naomi's conniving to get Dean out of Purgatory, it would have been one more reason for Dean to distrust Naomi's motives. OTOH, if Naomi did not tell Benny about the human portal, I would have liked Benny to tell that to Dean, too - maybe there is another supernatural entity out there that the boys need to wary of. But there was no way to cram any more story into the allotted time.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively we could have ditched Krissy and the annoying teens and had Adam Glass write TD part 1 but I get hives thinking about the way AG frequently mangles Sam's characterization. At least RT writes Sam reasonably well.
I agree. It's the Winchesters base of operations for maybe the rest of the series.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, I don't take it as a personnal attack, i was actually worry you would be the one taking it personnal when I was more talking in general and not just to you :)
ReplyDeleteI've been watching some shows for, exemple, cause I missed/loved some actors. I watched Sanctuary for 3 and something years cause I was in a Amanda Tapping withdraw after Stargate and gave up when I only had negatif thoughts at every synopsis and info or whatever. I watched Revolution for half the season hoping it would get better, wanting to love it....but after the mid-season premiere....i gave up too. You're right, it's your buisness it you want to watch something you can't stand, it just really bug me sometime how people can torture themself , and force themself to watch something they don't like when there's so much other things we can do (don't take that sentence personnel either, its' not meant to be^^;)
I guess I just found it so depressing to love the show and talk about it on SpoilerTV since its, like you said, a lot of Sam hating , and every character and writers too, hating. I just hate when I see people calling other people ''haters'' cause they just have differents opinion and just like differents things, so I won't use the term. It just seem like SpoilerTV is the '''bitching'' board now instead of the talking board it used to be. Anyway, again, that's my opinion :) you don't have to agree
I watch the show, but I wouldn't call myself a "fan". It's one of those deals where I watch for a few cool characters and marvel at the ridiculousness of how they're handling an intriguing idea. If they lost about half the main cast (mostly Charlie and Aaron), made the science more hard, and the world more serious business, that'd solve a lot of issues. I'm still fairly convinced it does well because The Voice is the lead-in. I'm certain it'll get a second season, maybe it'll solve some problems over the summer.
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd have intro'd this element a few seasons ago. It's one of my favorite bits of Carver's additions to the show. Because I like how Sam fits into its mold a hell of a lot better than he did the role of a hunter. Then both Winchesters would have a side to excel in, equal footing in some arena of the supernatural fighting world. I loved the Prometheus episode because Sam basically saved them all by simply using knowledge/what he'd read in books.
ReplyDeleteIt's easier for me to give up on shows I was never that invested in. I used to watch Sanctuary, too, but they lost me when they killed Ashley and never bounced back with the direction of season two, and gave up mid-season. I still haven't seen the last few eps of Fringe because season five was SO bad and it was doing my head in every week to watch the obliteration of a once great series. I hung onto The X-Files three seasons after I stopped loving it (season three). Buffy, I managed to hang on during seasons four and five, then I gave up. I eventually finished out the series, and it wasn't so bad, because time had passed and wounds had healed. SPN's the same deal ... I go away, come back, skip some eps. I'll see a synopsis, flashback to similar synopses of eps past and just lose a lot of hope for a comeback. There have been eps I've really liked this season, for various reasons, "Time After Time" and "Remember The Titans" are my faves thusfar.
ReplyDeleteUnless the board owners want to police what's posted here, I doubt it's going to change. Or unless the show begins to change. I've read a lot more disenchanted comments about Carver's run than I have praise for it. That's on a whole, beyond what's such and such writer is doing, or what an asshat they've turned Sam into, or they're writing Dean as a jerkoff, too. I wasn't fond of a lot of what Sera Gamble did, but Carver's just flying in the face of canon because he feels like he can. And that's aggravating a lot of people, making it difficult to focus on talking about what they may've liked about an episode or an episode they liked. It's like me and the few eps I mentioned enjoying this season - I don't even remember if I commented on the posts for them, saying I liked them. This is just my own personal, but a lot of the criticism comes from people who want it to be better. Or what they know it has the potential to be, if taken care of. Places like this are where they can get that out. Sometimes, it's just mean/nasty, others it's not. I'll admit, I've been guilty of both. More the former than the latter these days.
Agree or disagree, those are just my thoughts on the matter.
I actually thought Edlund's last episode was one of the best of the season (the golem episode), and I wasn't someone who was overly thrilled with his work in season 7, especially "Reading is Fundamental."
ReplyDeleteI don't care so much about canon (especially since canon is often made to be rewritten anyway) as I'm tired of the myth arc episodes having too much packed into one episode. I wish they would have more of these if they are going to pace them this way.
Considering the mess he left in season 5, killing off tons of characters for no great reason and heavily damaging Sam's character in season 4 only to never even properly resolve this, I'm not sure how much sympathy I'd feel for him. Even Kripke's "canon" was ultimately a patchwork (he said he never wanted to bring angels in, but did anyway).
ReplyDeleteRobbie Thompson wrote Charlie's first episode. He's written all of her episodes.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the show still has a lot of good moments. Bad moments too, but the good moments are often more easily overlooked. Already before this episode has aired people are saying Sam and Dean won't even be in it. If that's how you already feel, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[" hey debby downer your pissed off about this season as much as I am so WHY are we still seeing this show? "]
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That's a good question and I don't really have a logical answer; all I can say is the the Saga of the brothers still fascinates me as does the premise of the show, and my annoyance with this season is because I know the show and actors are capable of giving us great episodes; episodes that can be watched over and over and still give enjoyment, so the mediocrity of this season and the non-respect of that earlier world of Supernatural and its canon saddens me.
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These writers could end up putting the show off the air if they continue to wreck evertything that has gone before. However, I keep on hoping that everything improves and so that's probably why I haven't just turned my back on the show yet,
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As for the brothersI, love them both and I want them both to be valorized again and get back the importance which has always been theirs, especially Sam who has been the most side-lined this season.
Don't get me wrong, I love action -packed episodes, but as nearly everything done in the Taxi Driver episode really needed an explanation to be believable, then a two-parter could have built up more tension and made the whole thing more interesting and meaningful.
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As for the MOL story, I'm beginning to think someone came out with this good idea, threw it into the mix, but now have no idea what to do with it.
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Instead of bringing in another angel M, maybe the MoL bunker/library could have helped the brothers resolve one of the trials in some way, so that we could have got more of personal handle of Sam and Dean on resolving the enigmas.
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This episode sounds as if it's going down the same road.
I found a logic to Kripke's srory arc right up to the end of season five and the deaths along the way had pathos and meaning.
ReplyDeleteWatching those seasons gives me enjoyment which this current season never will.
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Then I never thought that Sam's character was trashed in season four.
His journey followed the path that had been laid out for him by higher forces. Remember that both Dean and Sam wanted to kill Lilith, believing it was the right thing to do. Sam thought his method of demon power was the right one, while Dean wanted to do it in a more 'normal way' but both had been duped by the combined forces of Angels and Demons.
Yeah.
ReplyDeleteThen when they have too many things going on in the same ep, it ends up that there''s physically not enough time to explain it all logically.
This new episode sounds packed with stuff as well, and that means there probably won't be time to to give each plot-line its due.
LOL, but you know what they say; you never forget your first kiss!
ReplyDeleteVery wellsaid.
ReplyDeletethat what I want to but ever sents I got to this website its been nothing but HATE. hate for this hate for that and its getting worst it ether the show or the hate that coming from this website that is pissing me off. I love the show what what the hell happen after season 6 that made everyone turn evil about it. I really think its that eric left and its not the same anymore without him. he knew what to do with sam and dean and no one else does and should not even try.
ReplyDeleteSo no one can save this show WOW THAT SUCKS!
ReplyDelete'' If that's how you already feel, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy''
ReplyDeleteExactly what I'm saying. If you say that's the episode is gonna be sssooo awful and boring, no matter how the quality is gonna be, it *IS* gonna be boring cause you started the episode in a very bad mood already hoping it will end soon and all they can find after it's the flaws and bitch about every single one of them.
''Bad moments too, but the good moments are often more easily overlooked. ''
Or are just forget, I feel the writers just can't win. You have people complaining about Sam not interacting with guest stars, and couple of time they've been totally right to do it, but in Taxi Driver he was the one having all the scene with Bobby and the one doing the main stuff. Can anyone, anywhere, somehow, somewhere be happy about stuff like this? I'm not saying that just that made up for the rushing part or that made you 'oblige' to like the episode, but is it so hard to be happy about one thing? Instead, all we see is people bitching about every single others elements. Nobody posting a review anymore, it's just bitching all over
I have to disagree with the first part. In general I've found when I go into an episode with low expectations, I'm much happier with the few moments of good, and when I go in with high expectations, I tend to be disappointed and grade it more harshly. I've also found that my instincts from the promos, which are based on past experiences, usually aren't too far off the mark - and I'm much happier when I listen to them and skip the episodes I don't think I'll enjoy. I can tell from the comments after the fact whether I was right or not, and if I was wrong, I can always go back and watch it later.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm actually with you now on being annoyed at the level of griping. People have issues - some with good reason. I have issues. But some of these comments feel like repetitive spewing of negativity without really giving much thought or analysis into why they feel the way they do. If you're going to write "wow that sucks," at least explain why.
I'm curious why you reserve your negative comments for this site and your positive ones for elsewhere?
ReplyDeleteWell it sounds like it will be an action packed mytharc episode at least. I think Edlund is the show's best writer, so that's a plus.
ReplyDeleteAnd I see Robert Duncan McNeill is directing. He hasn't directed since S1 "Skin" (GREAT episode), so that's cool.
I'm actually making a difference between ''I have low expectation but we'll see'' and ''I'm the reincarnation of grumpy and OMG this is gonna be ssooo awful and boring, I so
ReplyDeletedon't want to watch it and I have to do it dammit...''. Some people here are bashing every single episode before they even aired, way under ''having low expectations''
''And if you've made the same argument over a dozen times in the past six months, maybe you can assume that people here already know how you feel and you can sit this one out.''
+10000
There's some arguments I see in every. single. one. of the posts of some people....since the premiere aired. It's ok, i got it the first 10 000 times, you(people who are doing it not ''you you'') can stop it now...I still see people posting about Amelia everwhere, we haven't see her or even talk about her I think since what...episode 10? I didn't hate her with my life, wasn't liking it much either, but yeah it's over, let's take the next call. Or the ''omg Dean is alright right and Sam is always wrong'' argument, everyone said their arguments 10 times each, it's time to agree to disagree and move on...the list goes on.
Before that, they had Bobby. Problem? No info? No book? Call Bobby and magical solution appeared. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Bobby, I was sssoooo happy to see him back last episode, but don't think the librairy and Sam searching in the books would've fit the same way if Bobby was still around
ReplyDeleteThere's points I agree and points are don't about the ''the canon is made to be rewritten''.
ReplyDeleteUsually as long as it fill a whole and don't contradict with what we use to know/see, I kind of agree with you. People bash Jeremy and the writers for every single new things they add, like the Man of Letters thing, seconds before they go ''praise the perfect Lord Eric'' while Eric himself added the angels, changed the Trickster into an angel, the Micheal host too. The Bobby being a Bobby figure started way before season 6. Just in season 3(?, the first episode with Bobby's wife) Dean said exactly that Bobby was like a father to him and yet I saw people complaining in Season 7 about Sera when they made Bobby like father figure.
When Eric was there, I remember seeing a lots of complain toward the end, in season 4 and 5 about a lot of thing, but since he left, everything he did became perfect
The only time I could have problem is if the changes they make doesn't add up to the rest.
It's pretty much assured a second season. I've been hanging out on TVByTheNumbers for a few years and they're pretty spot on with their predictions. Revolution and one other show are very likely to be renewed by NBC. Even after mid-season break, NBC still considers the ratings huge. But then again, it's NBC. More than ten people watching for more than two episodes are huge ratings.
ReplyDeleteIt will definitely be renewed, but it's not getting great ratings for the timeslot.
ReplyDeleteThere was tons and tons of hate about season 5, how depressing it was and how they were sick of the angst, and so on. Kripke also made some very controversial comments about Dean (and I generally prefer the writing for Dean this season to most of seasons 5-7). I think the show was, overall, better at that time, but I don't think it was what people make it now.
ReplyDeleteI agree w/Chris684! I went into Season 6 w/very low expectations and expecting to hate it b/c I didn't care that much for Season 5, but I loved the S6 premiere and all the episodes in the first half. To me, the second half wasn't as strong as the first half.
ReplyDeleteI had very high expectations for Sam's S7 story, and was bitterly disappointed, esp. after the awesomeness (IMO) that was HCW. I went into this last episode w/pretty high expectations given the trial Sam was going to be completing and thought it was just okay. It definitely didn't meet my expectations.
I low expectations for ATGB and was very pleasantly surprised to find myself loving it. So, I definitely disagree that thinking you'll hate it means you'll hate. That's not true for me at all.
As Donna C said, some people continue to watch b/c they know what they show used to be, and they want to see if the next episode is better. I'm pretty invested in the show. It's the only show I own on DVD. I have all the seasons. It was once my favorite show. I would like to see how the Winchester story ends. But I'm no longer "in love" with the show. It's not the best show on TV, IMO, anymore. Now, it's so inconsistent that I'm very "blah" about it.
ReplyDeleteI was not a fan of S5. It had great episodes like SS, ATSRTS, MBV, and TE, but overall, I was not happy w/the season. I was not excited about S6, but once the premiere aired, I was hooked back into the show. I loved everything from the premiere to the episode when Sam got his soul back. To me, the first part of S6 was stronger than the 2nd part. S6 was better, IMO, that S5. S7 was awful. I thought it was the worst season of Supernatural until this season started to air. Yes, I know the season isn't over, but I believe that S8 will go down, for me, was the WORST season of Supernatural ever scripted.
I was just writing on another post that I wish I could still be happy and excited about all the episodes, but I can't. Sorry. The show has, IMO, made some real missteps and has greatly departed from what it used to be. I don't like all the filler episodes. I don't like all the focus on guest stars and secondary characters. Jensen and Jared may hate it, but I prefer when the episodes are focused on them, and when they are in most of the scenes. I don't want to watch "Supernatural & Friends," which is what this show has slowly become.
Anyway, I plan to still watch, but I may stop if the show becomes completely unrecognizable. Before ATGB aired, I was seriously considering quitting the show, but that episode reminded me of what Supernatural is. That episode had a lot of heart, which is missing from the show nowadays. So, I don't know what I'll do. I may quit watching completely. Like DonnaC, I have definitely given up shows I loved before - Fringe (in the last season), Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me - when I've felt they've gone off the rails. I will say I was less invested in those shows than Supernatural.
"Then when they have too many things going on in the same ep, it ends up that there''s physically not enough time to explain it all logically."
ReplyDeleteExactly! This is the main problem. They leave themselves no time to tell the story the right way. I'm not sure why they're on this new kick of cramming everything into one episode.
If they had expanded it, I would have liked to see more from Sam on how he felt about returning to Hell. I mean, he has to have some reservations about that. We could have explored that a bit instead of the Crowley/Kevin/Naomi stuff.
ReplyDeletePlus, I would have liked to see Sam struggle more in Purgatory or simply have him transported right to the door he needed. We were told Dean fought every day he was there and got no time for rest, etc., so to show Sam just strolling along to where he needed to go was silly. If they had cut out Purgatory completely and the Taxi Driver, himself, they could have devoted more time to Hell and Sam's time there. I just wish the trial had been fleshed out an made more difficult to achieve.
But they aren't using it though. Wouldn't it have been more interesting to see Sam and Dean finding a spell or a portal to Hell in the MOL library rather than torturing a CRD? We've seen them do that thousands of times. This would have been new and interesting, and it would have brought the MOL story back to the forefront.
ReplyDeleteI agree w/those who feel the MOL story is being wasted. They could be doing a lot w/that, but they are doing nothing w/it. It was a great story that had great potential that lasted all for one episode. Other than providing a home base and vast library, I don't see the story as doing anything for the boys.
I watch it, too, because I want to feel like EK re-created the "magic" which has infused SPN for the most part - that's I why I can call it a POS. Unlike SPN I don't consider Revolution "Appointment TV"- I DVR it and am always at least an episode behind; even a "bad ep" of SPN I *still* consider worthy of "live" viewing (and DVR-ing) than 90% of today's regular channel shows (I don't get any premium channels - HBO, Showtime, etc.).
ReplyDeleteYeah, Revolution should have "shocked" us by killing the annoying and far inferior mini-Dean character, Charlie, instead of Danny - only then the show couldn't get a little "sumthin sumthin" going between Charlie and Nate/Jason - because we all know how well the star-crossed teen lovers trope plays on scifi/horror shows (Not Well). MiniDean seems to have devoted much of her of life marking sure her younger brother was safe so I would have been far more shocked (and thumbs up) if having successfully played major part in rescuing Danny, Charlie heroically grabbed the rocker launcher while the others were running around in circles (to continue keeping Danny safe) and been killed just when everyone thought the "coast was clear". I have no idea what function Aaron serves anymore except to be the Cowardly Lion with the Heart of Gold. And I've been wanting to "string" "Juliet" (Rachel) up since there is a straight line between her "helping" Monroe and Danny's death.
I haven't watched last week's episode yet but I'm familiar with the "technology" as little (or much) as anyone is - another two, very overused premises - "revenge" and "the military made us work for themmmm when all we wanted to do is "save baby seals"! (lol). I'll continue DVRing S1 in case Revolution gets better, but as far as post-apocalyptic wastelands and survivors go, I strongly prefer The Walking Dead. *G*
I agree the show is under-using the BatCave. I think they're definitely using it
ReplyDeletein 8.22 (from OTS pics) and *maybe* 8.20.
I found the concept of "rogue reapers" very interesting... perhaps in MoL library the boys would find a more innocuous way to temporarily bind reaper, or better yet, the MoLs could have had "contacts" among the Reapers if the MoLs wanted to "gatecrash" Heaven or Hell via Purgatory for a specific purpose and then "come back". It's known that humans can survive in Purgatory's "atmosphere" and then they could use their Reaper mojo to make Heaven/ Hell survivable to humans PLUS enclose the human traveler in a "time bubble" so only a set amount of "earth time" would pass no matter how long the human traveler took to conduct whatever business
they had to do in Heaven/Hell before exiting back to Purgatory to be Reaper-transported "home".
Several 8.19 "plot holes" or "WTFs?" would be filled if Crowley and any stunt CRD didn't know about "rogue Reapers" and the Reaper had explained (or the boys could have read the "Hows" in the Library) how the heck human!Sam could not only breath in Hell but find Soul!Bobby in a seemingly short amount of time.
I agree with everything you said pertaining to Sam. As I said in a prior reply I liked the concept of a rogue reaper and I would have expanded the episode much like you said, only the reaper would have as leery of getting on the King of Hell's bad side as Ajay was so I would have had Ajay do the same, drop Sam off close to the Hell door but not right by it or inside Hell. I would have had the boys discuss how they really, really feared the trial and I would have Sam had at least one Cage FB (they could reuse the footage from S6 and S7 )on the way to free Bobby (and/or another FB scene on the way out) and had Sam fight more demons both the way in/out. I do respect that the writers tried to pack tons of interesting stuff into the episode.
ReplyDeleteThe acting, pacing of the script, directing, and the FX were very good; there was enough material in TD to make it cover two episodes - the way the writers compressed into one episode left many fans feel cheated out of further exploration of Sam getting Bobby and Benny telling Dean who told him about the human portal (or maybe *I* just want to know and feel the compressed script wasted Benny).
I guess I would disagree about the pacing of the episodes. Lately, it feels like episodes are just crammed w/action and several ongoing plots in between a bunch of fillers. Maybe if the writers cut out more of the fillers, they'd have more time to properly tell the action, substantive episodes.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I actually found this episode enjoyable. It wasn't horrible. I just thought too much was going on in the episode, and the more interesting parts - for me at least - (the trial) were short-changed.
I meant the pacing of 819 (we're hijacking the 821 spoiler thread *g*). The writers did the best they could with all the mytharc territory they seemed *to have to cover* - the problem why did they have to cover all "this"? . The trial seemed "too easy" - for Sam to find Bobby. When the show went with Ajay spilling the beans to Crowley, that would have been an excellent set-up for a trap, that Bobby and Sam would have to work much harder to get out of the trap rather than simply hearing Crowley bitch to the "secretary" about blah, blah, blah - and I liked that scene - it's that it's highly unusual to have a Winchester simply "Ocean's 11" Hell and it NOT be a multitasking Crowley trap.
ReplyDeleteI thought 8.15 by the same writers was "fair" (I liked Sam with the "Dog" and I liked Portia) and I thought 8.18 (F&G) was awful. The "Return of the Charlie" in 8.20 seems superficially to have less ties to the mytharc than last year's 7.20 with the exception that "Dean benches Sam" to rest up. The Teen Hunters was an idiotic script so that AG could Fanboy his OC Krissy just as RT is fanboying Charlie (but I like Charlie wayyyyy more than Krissy). Either 8.18 or 8.20's MOTW's eps should have been used as an expansion of Taxi Driver.
Honestly, I've never been much of a Benny Fan, though I think Ty did a fantastic job playing the role. There must have been a writers' directive to write a final Dean-Benny scene (for this season at least) so we got a very moving Dean & Benny goodbye scene tag-along scene that resulted in Sam trial thing that getting very short shrift, The Benny character always seemed pointless if Carver/Singer's intentions were to (once topside) only serve as a wedge between Sam and Dean...and then return Benny to Purgatory, leaving the question of who told Benny the WAY OUT unasked by Dean and Cas and then Sam. (I know there was a lot more to the Dean-Benny bond than I'm describing but I bet most of what will be remembered is "Sam & Bobby got stuck in P and Dean had to kill his new besty to save Sam's selfish butt").
ReplyDeleteAt least the writers had Sam soften on Benny and tell Dean he was sorry that he didn't get Benny out.
The show could have done much more with Sam's interactions with Amelia (and Don) and Benny then they did.
Most of it stems from what I'd already stated - because there's so much Sam hate on this board. I was hoping to see some interesting comments in the thread of the Promethus episode, but it was a lot of deriding commentary about Sam and his role in the season thusfar as the resident asshole. I can't remember if I even stopped over here after "Time After Time". However, I didn't like that one quite as much as "Titans", because it'd have had more impact if it were Henry and Sam running around together.
ReplyDeleteThey're very much alike and Sam could've done well to hear some of the issues Henry spoke about and how he balanced normal life with MOL life, since he's in this "I want normal" headspace for some reason this year. Yet again, all your guest stars are belong to Dean. Those scenes with him bitching at Henry kinda annoyed me. Other than that, I really enjoyed other elements and Henry himself was pretty cool. If only they could find a way to bring him back.
Rambling aside, mostly it's that - I get distracted by the Sam negativity and either just leave or get into debates about his character.
>>Or the ''omg Dean is alright right and Sam is always wrong'' argument,
ReplyDeleteeveryone said their arguments 10 times each, it's time to agree to
disagree and move on ... <<
The complaints about what a self-centered bastard Sam is can fall into this category, too. Where some people are tired of seeing the stuff you mentioned, this is the one that rubs my rectum the wrong way. And I feel I have to engage everyone who makes that same old argument about it. Which leads to me commenting to different people in the same post, because it comes up over and over and OVER ... ad nauseum.
I agree with the self-fulfilling prophecy comment too. I've experienced this not only with a few SPN episodes, but eps for just about every series I've ever watched. And a lot of people have gut reactions to promos. Maybe the world would be better off if networks stopped showing them. I honestly don't remember promos being a part of TV twenty some odd years ago. The episode would end and it'd go right into the next show on the block for that night.
ReplyDeleteI guess you're right . . . the pacing was good for the number of plots they had in the episode, but I just feel, on the whole, the pacing is off. We get tons of filler and then one crazy, plot-packed, action-packed episode. They really need to cut back the filler!
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I like Benny, but he was pretty pointless. His only purpose was to cause unnecessary, unnatural (IMO) tension and conflict btw the brothers. But they developed him just enough that he had such potential. They could have done something w/him if they weren't just trying to use him to sabotage the brothers' relationship.
ReplyDeleteI'd have preferred if both Danny and Charlie had died in that fight. I was pissed Danny was killed, but that was because the whole first (mostly boring) half of the season was "Rescue Danny". Reminding me of the Rescue Sasuke arc from the Naruto manga, i.e. it went on far too long with disappointment as payoff. Danny's actor was meh. His character was meh. Charlie, yeah, mini-Dean but without the charm. She's been okay the last two eps, but I'd never miss her. Aaron, all he does is whine about the old days when he used to own Google or whatever. Rachel, I liked a lot in the first half of the season. I dunno what's going on with her now. It's confusing. Esp. with this Randall character in play. His overtures to Monroe make little sense. The Reason the power went out - revealed in the latest episode - was so scientifically ridiculous, I literally LOL'd. And LOL'd hard. I'd had the Reason figured out long long ago, but just not that as the catalyst.
ReplyDeleteThe Walking Dead disappointed me quite a bit this season. But then I read the comics, and I wasn't expecting the Governor storyline to play out the way it did. Or a bunch of other poorly written and executed scenarios, either. I'm still watching S4 because Scott Gimple might succeed in areas where Glen Mazzara failed.
CASTIEL!!!!! I'm. So. Happy.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it sounds that bad. It sounds like one main story (Sam and Dean with mystery recluse) and two other storylines moving forward a little as side stories. It gets to be problematic IMO when you have more than one big storyline reaching major climaxes, for example:
ReplyDelete- Sam returns from Hell / dragons are seen for the first time in thousands of years / mother of all monsters is released from Purgatory
- Sam's Hell trauma finally crashes in and he almost dies / Cas comes back from the dead
- Sam goes to both Purgatory AND Hell to complete the second trial / Bobby returns after being gone a year / Benny is killed off / Kevin, Crowley & Naomi storylines also move forward
Considering Revolution's ratings he may not be able to bask for more than this season. I'll be surprised if it's not moved.
ReplyDeleteI think NBC touts it as a hit in relation to everything else on their network. They gotta grab whatever they can, since they're last among the Big Four in ratings since, like, the end of Seinfeld or Friends or something.
ReplyDeleteI thought the deaths often had little meaning beyond a few moments of sadness. Longterm, characters like Victor and Ellen were important to the show, building up a strong group or extended family.
ReplyDeleteThe problem wasn't so much where Sam went in season 4 as how it was resolved. One "suck it up" speech from Bobby to Dean wiped a season's worth of tension under the rug, and robbed Sam of his character integrity and voice. Instead the focus moved sharply to what Dean needed to do for Sam and how Sam suffered. That's what we've been ever since. They took Sam to a dark place in season 4 and then didn't seem to know how to go back.
I think the episode quality was generally stronger in the first 4 seasons, and Sam and Dean had a much stronger relationship, but I think his last few seasons brought on many of the key problems in the show now. There are also some elements to the show now that never would have happened back then which I'm enjoying. I just wish the episode quality and pacing were better, and that the writing for Sam was better.
Honestly, I would have skipped the whole idea of "Rogue Reapers" (too messy and disruptive to canon) and just had the boys discover - in the MOL library - a spell they could use to open a doorway to Hell. I would have skipped Purgatory too!
ReplyDeleteIf they weren't going to take the time properly show Sam's short experience in Purgatory, then why even go there? Just skip Purgatory. Dean didn't even burn Benny's bones so it's not like Purgatory was necessary to "kill off" Benny. He could have been left in the background where he's been all season.
Anyway, I just wish TD had been more thought out and planned!
Welcome to BitchingTV.com like I said ealier ....sadly ^^;; It's all that site is these days
ReplyDelete