I'm not pleased with Tommy. Yes, he should be mad about Oliver's doubts regarding how Tommy was running the club. However, to quit on Oliver after one mistake / lapse in judgement when the guy has been your friend since childhood and gave you a huge career opportunity when you were left with nothing and had no job experience is an extreme overreaction and shows a glaring lack of commitment and loyalty. If Tommy is that unforgiving with his lifelong best friend I have to question how good of a friend he really was in the first place.
Maybe, ever since Tommy found out about Oliver's double life, Tommy has been looking for an excuse to distance himself from this situation. I guess Oliver's moment of doubt was the just the excuse he needed.
We got to know more about Shado as a person, which is good. Still, as the series goes on I keep wondering why he was left alone on that island. I mean, there were people with him. What happened to them? That's bugging me a lot.
I don't blame Tommy. Oliver goes around killing people who he believes deserves to die because of their illegal activities. If Oliver for one second thought Tommy might be guilty, then Tommy is smart to get the hell away from him. Tommy is the most sympathetic character on the show, but because he's not the main hero, a badass soldier, a quirky sidekick, or John Barrowman, he'll always receive a great amount of dislike.
Oliver/Shado/Slade on the island was awesome. More please.
I didn't like Tommy's decisions in this episode. I really hope Malcolm tells him the truth about him being the Dark Archer before his ultimate battle with Oliver because I want to see how Tommy responds then, and whose side he chooses after knowing Malcolm is responsible for killing Robert, Sara, Frank, and more.
I'm glad Oliver is killing less people now but we're going to see the Count again and next time it'll be the Count going after him. If the Count was alert during that time, then he probably knows Oliver's identity which would make it even more interesting when he next surfaces.
There's still the scene from the sizzle real with Tommy saying to Oliver that if Laurel knew who he was, she would've chosen him. I don't remember it being in this episode, so I guess we will see Oliver and Tommy confronting each other again soon. Perhaps Laurel is the reason for Tommy looking for an excuse to distance himself from Oliver.
Basically, i thought it was an awesome episode but I have two issues.
1) Personally, I don't buy Oliver doubting Tommy's word about selling drugs in the club. It felt like they twisted the character to get the story where they wanted it to go.
2) I did NOT like the way the director handled the scene when Tommy and his father. It was unnecessarily melodramatic.
Well, we are talking about a 5 year period. IIRC in one of the last couple of episodes it was stated that he's only been there 6 months so far. That's a lot of time left for a lot to happen.
It's been about 8 months by now but still, plenty of time left, and whatever happened with Shado and Slade obviously ended badly, otherwise they would've left the island with him.
Aren't we supposed to believe that Slade is dead when Oliver is rescued?
I'm having a theory that we'll have this great rescue "event" Shado and Yao Fei are rescued and Oliver is supposed to be with them but something devastating happens and they leave and Oliver is left behind. (Yes. I do realize how likely this is. :-D )
Very good ep. I worry for Tommy. He thinks his best friend is a killer? He has no idea about his father... Diggle's pursuit of Deadshot was good. Although he didn't get far, it opens it up for when they do go after him.
Slade could be dead, but he could also be very much alive wearing his Deathstroke custom. I hope he's alive and returns as a future big bad personally.
I think we have seen the birth of a new antagonist. I believe Tommy will change into main series enemy, it'll be the sort of Lex Luthor/Clark Kent relationship.
Arrow is the only series on CW (that I watch) that keeps its level throughout the whole season so far, I love it.
i have an issue with Oliver in that scene; ok, so your friend is pissed off cuz u doubted him about the drugs, ok so he's being needlessly and even childlishly melodramatic and declaring he's going to quit. fine. say something! y r u standing there utterly silent and staring as if him going or staying is the same to u?
Oliver is not normal. The betrayels he experienced on the island that we've yet to see left him numb and with serious trust issues. He didn't even trust Diggle enough and was suprised to find Diggle really did have his back in this episode. I think this is why he didn't know what to say to Tommy and just stood there speechless.
Maybe the mask remained in Oliver's possession as a trophy after fighting with Slade? IDK.. I'd rather have Slade alive and evil than the alternative of him being dead. He'll make a good villain, even better than Malcolm.
Best ep of the season!!The exchange between Oli and Tommy before T quit was 1 of the top 5 scenes since the pilot!The dialogue in the entire ep was better than ever before!
Totally agree with the Tommy and Oliver being built up only to be brought down. The last couple episodes was showing how close that they were and then they just walked away from each other. Meh... not believable but I guess it will have to be acceptable cause that's how they wrote it.
Okay, I now ship Shado and Slade. It should be Shade, haha, or Slado from now on!:D That fight scene was hot, like a burning woods! OMG... Btw, I don't think anobody betrayed anybody on the island. I think Slade and Shado got the chance to leave and Oliver - as his personality has become more and more mature - helped them leave by sacrificing himself. At least I want to believe that, cause I love Slade and Shado so much. I don't want them to be dead. Good ep, I cannot wait for the next one!
The rupture in Ollie and Tommy's relationship was handled implausibly, if not actually badly, I think, Even watching the episode twice, I have a hard time seieng anything that looks lik ereal suspicion on Ollie's part that Tommy's dealing. He asks if it's possible that someone at the club is dealing and says to double-check all the employees, but those are both entirely reasonable questions and things to do. Tommy pretty clearly bristles and takes it personally, but the writers totally dropped the ball if we were supposed to beleive Ollie DID suspect him, and they dropped it again in the confrontation scene between the two of them. Contrived, to drive Tommy back to his father.
Thing is they are supposed to know each other for years, Tommy knows Oliver and his expressions. I don't need my BFFs to tell me they disapprove something, I can see it in their eyes, and I suppose I can believe this to be the same between Oliver and Tommy.
But, if Ollie believes Tommy might be dealing the drugs, how does it make any sense to ask TOMMY to double-check all the employees? Have him check himself? Had Ollie said something like, "I'M going to double-check all the employees," maybe, but he didn't; he asked the guy managing his club a reasonable question, and asked him to check the employees. If he didn't trust Tommy, then he'd have had somebody else checking the employees, unless he's an idiot. But then, later, when Tommy accuses him of mistrust, he acts like he DID mistrust him. It's just not logically or coherently constructed.
You're remembered correctly. He is a regular next season. But, keep in mind, the Island is 6 or 8 months into the 5 year period. When we saw the Deathstoke mask on, what looked like a grave marker, it was about 4 years beyond what we're watching now. I love the character. What sticks out and intrigues me the most, is that he is as formidable and deadly as Oliver is in present day, but he's not emotionally shut down like Oliver is today. I am so curious about Oliver's journey from a pretty optimistic guy who the shut down guy who returned to Starling City.
You're right. I'd forgotten the specifics of that conversation and haven't had time to re-watch yet.
The thing that makes it more frustrating is that they'd already lain the ground work for a much more believable reason for Tommy to walk away. Tommy has been conflicted and confused about Ollie being The Hood. Since he found out Tommy was attacked and Oliver has killed two people...I would be been completely believable for Tommy to still be having difficulty reconciling all of that information and needing some space.
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I'm not pleased with Tommy. Yes, he should be mad about Oliver's doubts regarding how Tommy was running the club. However, to quit on Oliver after one mistake / lapse in judgement when the guy has been your friend since childhood and gave you a huge career opportunity when you were left with nothing and had no job experience is an extreme overreaction and shows a glaring lack of commitment and loyalty. If Tommy is that unforgiving with his lifelong best friend I have to question how good of a friend he really was in the first place.
ReplyDeleteMaybe, ever since Tommy found out about Oliver's double life, Tommy has been looking for an excuse to distance himself from this situation. I guess Oliver's moment of doubt was the just the excuse he needed.
We got to know more about Shado as a person, which is good. Still, as the series goes on I keep wondering why he was left alone on that island. I mean, there were people with him. What happened to them? That's bugging me a lot.
ReplyDeleteI don't blame Tommy. Oliver goes around killing people who he believes deserves to die because of their illegal activities. If Oliver for one second thought Tommy might be guilty, then Tommy is smart to get the hell away from him. Tommy is the most sympathetic character on the show, but because he's not the main hero, a badass soldier, a quirky sidekick, or John Barrowman, he'll always receive a great amount of dislike.
ReplyDeleteOliver/Shado/Slade on the island was awesome. More please.
I think they either died or betrayed him? I wonder how much time he did spend on the island alone.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like Tommy's decisions in this episode. I really hope Malcolm tells him the truth about him being the Dark Archer before his ultimate battle with Oliver because I want to see how Tommy responds then, and whose side he chooses after knowing Malcolm is responsible for killing Robert, Sara, Frank, and more.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad Oliver is killing less people now but we're going to see the Count again and next time it'll be the Count going after him. If the Count was alert during that time, then he probably knows Oliver's identity which would make it even more interesting when he next surfaces.
I was about to mention the 'looking for an excuse' theory and you said it.
ReplyDeleteThere's still the scene from the sizzle real with Tommy saying to Oliver that if Laurel knew who he was, she would've chosen him. I don't remember it being in this episode, so I guess we will see Oliver and Tommy confronting each other again soon. Perhaps Laurel is the reason for Tommy looking for an excuse to distance himself from Oliver.
ReplyDeleteBasically, i thought it was an awesome episode but I have two issues.
ReplyDelete1) Personally, I don't buy Oliver doubting Tommy's word about selling drugs in the club. It felt like they twisted the character to get the story where they wanted it to go.
2) I did NOT like the way the director handled the scene when Tommy and his father. It was unnecessarily melodramatic.
But other than those two points I loved the ep.
Well, we are talking about a 5 year period. IIRC in one of the last couple of episodes it was stated that he's only been there 6 months so far. That's a lot of time left for a lot to happen.
ReplyDeleteIt's been about 8 months by now but still, plenty of time left, and whatever happened with Shado and Slade obviously ended badly, otherwise they would've left the island with him.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he left them...?
ReplyDeleteAren't we supposed to believe that Slade is dead when Oliver is rescued?
ReplyDeleteI'm having a theory that we'll have this great rescue "event" Shado and Yao Fei are rescued and Oliver is supposed to be with them but something devastating happens and they leave and Oliver is left behind. (Yes. I do realize how likely this is. :-D )
Very good ep. I worry for Tommy. He thinks his best friend is a killer? He has no idea about his father...
ReplyDeleteDiggle's pursuit of Deadshot was good. Although he didn't get far, it opens it up for when they do go after him.
Slade could be dead, but he could also be very much alive wearing his Deathstroke custom. I hope he's alive and returns as a future big bad personally.
ReplyDeleteAnd the mask that looked like a grave marker was maybe Slade's former partner?
ReplyDeleteI think we have seen the birth of a new antagonist. I believe Tommy will change into main series enemy, it'll be the sort of Lex Luthor/Clark Kent relationship.
ReplyDeleteArrow is the only series on CW (that I watch) that keeps its level throughout the whole season so far, I love it.
"The person of color has successfully purchased drugs"
ReplyDeletetha's all
I still hope Tommy doesn't end up evil.. I'd rather see him killed while trying to stop his father than to see him turning evil.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on Arrow's level. I loved all episodes since episode 14.
i have an issue with Oliver in that scene; ok, so your friend is pissed off cuz u doubted him about the drugs, ok so he's being needlessly and even childlishly melodramatic and declaring he's going to quit. fine. say something! y r u standing there utterly silent and staring as if him going or staying is the same to u?
ReplyDeleteOliver is not normal. The betrayels he experienced on the island that we've yet to see left him numb and with serious trust issues. He didn't even trust Diggle enough and was suprised to find Diggle really did have his back in this episode. I think this is why he didn't know what to say to Tommy and just stood there speechless.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the mask remained in Oliver's possession as a trophy after fighting with Slade? IDK.. I'd rather have Slade alive and evil than the alternative of him being dead. He'll make a good villain, even better than Malcolm.
ReplyDeleteBest ep of the season!!The exchange between Oli and Tommy before T quit was 1 of the top 5 scenes since the pilot!The dialogue in the entire ep was better than ever before!
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with the Tommy and Oliver being built up only to be brought down. The last couple episodes was showing how close that they were and then they just walked away from each other. Meh... not believable but I guess it will have to be acceptable cause that's how they wrote it.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I now ship Shado and Slade. It should be Shade, haha, or Slado from now on!:D That fight scene was hot, like a burning woods! OMG...
ReplyDeleteBtw, I don't think anobody betrayed anybody on the island. I think Slade and Shado got the chance to leave and Oliver - as his personality has become more and more mature - helped them leave by sacrificing himself. At least I want to believe that, cause I love Slade and Shado so much. I don't want them to be dead. Good ep, I cannot wait for the next one!
I'm pretty sure the actor who plays Slade is listed as a regular for next season, so unless he's playing Slade's evil twin, Slade's not dead.
ReplyDeleteThe rupture in Ollie and Tommy's relationship was handled implausibly, if not actually badly, I think, Even watching the episode twice, I have a hard time seieng anything that looks lik ereal suspicion on Ollie's part that Tommy's dealing. He asks if it's possible that someone at the club is dealing and says to double-check all the employees, but those are both entirely reasonable questions and things to do. Tommy pretty clearly bristles and takes it personally, but the writers totally dropped the ball if we were supposed to beleive Ollie DID suspect him, and they dropped it again in the confrontation scene between the two of them. Contrived, to drive Tommy back to his father.
ReplyDeleteThing is they are supposed to know each other for years, Tommy knows Oliver and his expressions. I don't need my BFFs to tell me they disapprove something, I can see it in their eyes, and I suppose I can believe this to be the same between Oliver and Tommy.
ReplyDeleteBut, if Ollie believes Tommy might be dealing the drugs, how does it make any sense to ask TOMMY to double-check all the employees? Have him check himself? Had Ollie said something like, "I'M going to double-check all the employees," maybe, but he didn't; he asked the guy managing his club a reasonable question, and asked him to check the employees. If he didn't trust Tommy, then he'd have had somebody else checking the employees, unless he's an idiot. But then, later, when Tommy accuses him of mistrust, he acts like he DID mistrust him. It's just not logically or coherently constructed.
ReplyDeleteYou're remembered correctly. He is a regular next season. But, keep in mind, the Island is 6 or 8 months into the 5 year period. When we saw the Deathstoke mask on, what looked like a grave marker, it was about 4 years beyond what we're watching now. I love the character. What sticks out and intrigues me the most, is that he is as formidable and deadly as Oliver is in present day, but he's not emotionally shut down like Oliver is today. I am so curious about Oliver's journey from a pretty optimistic guy who the shut down guy who returned to Starling City.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. I'd forgotten the specifics of that conversation and haven't had time to re-watch yet.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that makes it more frustrating is that they'd already lain the ground work for a much more believable reason for Tommy to walk away. Tommy has been conflicted and confused about Ollie being The Hood. Since he found out Tommy was attacked and Oliver has killed two people...I would be been completely believable for Tommy to still be having difficulty reconciling all of that information and needing some space.
He's not going to be dead as of wherever we are in the island timeline, I guess I should clarify....
ReplyDelete