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POLL : What did you think of The Americans - Covert War?

18 Apr 2013

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33 comments:

  1. Halliebear18 April 2013 at 04:31

    This was a complete 180 from the previous episode in some ways, but I enjoyed seeing all the insight into Elizabeth's earlier years, and particularly how it shaped her feelings about Philip in the present. I did find it odd that they'd let the guy go, though. Seems like a huge mistake.

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  2. Luana Arturi18 April 2013 at 09:58

    I hate that Philip never has it in him to run after Elizabeth, sometimes I think he shoud

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  3. Halliebear18 April 2013 at 11:50

    Yes, and I really like the way they handled her warming towards him--Elizabeth has issues that are understandable, but the truth is she's been pretty awful to him over the years. I was glad they didn't reconcile just because she decided to hint around and bring over some beer. He deserves an apology and some sort of gesture that she means it this time and won't just kick him out again the next time they fight.

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  4. Halliebear18 April 2013 at 13:16

    See, part of me wanted that too because it's hard seeing them both miserable, but when I think about it more, Philip has been running after Elizabeth the whole marriage. She's always gotten her way and never gives anything back. Even when she's tried to make up before, it's always a non-apology and then he just forgives her even if she's been really awful to him. I think the bigger picture for Elizabeth has to be that she has to stop driving him away or thinking she can turn the relationship on and off on a whim when she gets angry about something.

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  5. carrot18 April 2013 at 13:38

    And this is why I can't root for Elizabeth. She is too Mary-Sue-ish for my taste in this aspect of the show. All she does is take. No consequences, no accountability, convenient outs by the writers. Meanwhile, Phillip tells one lie and it's motel time. In the end, I'm just frustrated. I know the show wants me to root for Phillip and Elizabeth to be together, but it doesn't tell me why. The whole relationship is just too one-sided and frankly Phillip deserves better.

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  6. Halliebear18 April 2013 at 15:53

    I've been feeling exactly like this for about the past five episodes... ever since they were interrogated. But then I thought last night's finally showed her not getting the easy out. If the writers will finally force her to take a step past her own selfishness and do something nice for Philip, I can chalk it up to watching her growth. If they keep letting her slide with no accountability and just let her be mean to Philip while he takes it and loves her anyway, then I feel the same way. I think they believe they're not writing a Mary Sue because she does have flaws, but the problem is that in the romantic aspect of things, she gets all these perks and easy outs no normal person ever would. It made me seriously annoyed when both Philip and Gregory were pining over her and she was giving back nothing to either of them.

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  7. Myos418 April 2013 at 16:15

    I'm beginning to think that Granny is in part a free agent - she worded things in such a way as to make Elizabeth disobey Moscow's orders and that would have been a death sentence.

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  8. Halliebear18 April 2013 at 16:21

    That's an interesting point. And how much do we really know about Grannie? Their old handler Gabriel just disappeared, right?

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  9. carrot18 April 2013 at 23:20

    I think (or at least hope) doing something nice for him doesn't fix anything at this point. I think Phillip needs to know that Elizabeth's feelings are as real as his and won't go away the moment he leaves the toilet seat up. And after years of mistreatment, that is going to be tough to overcome. I definitely agree with you on the Mary-Sue front and I hope this is the start of growth for Elizabeth, not just a bump in the road. Otherwise, that would seriously ruin the show for me.

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  10. Halliebear19 April 2013 at 01:31

    Oh I agree. We need to see Elizabeth not only be nicer to him, but also make an effort to reach out--it's been to one-sided for too long. She certainly isn't at fault for the the fact that he fell in love first, but if she truly cares for him she needs to make an effort to show it and to make him feel secure that her feelings aren't going to change at the drop of a hat. Really, she needs to tell him she loves him, and I hope we're going to see that before the season ends. That was a real turning point, IMHO, when he was brave and said that and she lifted her chin and shot him down. He has every right now to doubt that she'll ever feel for him what he does for her.

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  11. Pascal21919 April 2013 at 19:31

    Very little and I had the exact same thought. Have we ever seen her in the Rezidentura?

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  12. Pascal21919 April 2013 at 19:34

    I think she's finally becoming accepting of her feelings for Philip. Losing Gregory and Zhukov in such short order is pushing her over the edge. Also realizing how often Granny has manipulated her is probably why she let Patterson go, which will come back to haunt them.

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  13. Pascal21919 April 2013 at 19:36

    I completely agree with you @disqus_RSPPEinVym:disqus and @halliebear:disqus ! She's been all take and never give, Philip is the one constantly giving into her. Apologizing etc. And this last episode it looks like he's finally had enough, let her be sincere and apologize for once. He sure has earned it. She seemed to realize it in the end that the way she was going about it was wrong.

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  14. Myos419 April 2013 at 19:37

    very good point, and I don't think we have. And as Halliebear said, Gabriel just "disappeared". Not that Grannie is, necessarily, not-KGB, but she could be rogue-KGB. Apparently in the 80s when things started to go bad for the USSR, there were many different factions (like, the one that supported Gorbachev, the one that tried a coup, the one that pushed Yeltsin forward, and the one where Putin was although he wasn't the leader back then - right there, that's 4 "factions" that we know about...)

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  15. Halliebear19 April 2013 at 22:03

    It was nice to watch through the series of flashbacks how Zhukov had encouraged her to open her heart to Philip over the years, even when she was so closed off. I hope by the end of the season we get to see her make some sort of loving gesture towards Philip and finally tell him she cares. I think if she would make that effort rather than just hope he takes a coy smile and a "it's time" as an invitation to invite himself back home. But if they go into the off season with them still fighting or not communicating, it will be awful!

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  16. Halliebear19 April 2013 at 22:06

    See, I worry... I think this episode ended it on the perfect note, but the writers at times have just had them flop back and forth without real progress. If we see Elizabeth try to shut down and ignore him again in the next one, it will be very frustrating. If they start to talk and she finally recognizes the mistakes she's bringing into the relationship, it would make all the missteps worth it. Philip more than anything, IMHO, just needs to hear that Elizabeth wants him and loves him. Seeing her so distraught over Zhukov and so emotional over Gregory has proven to him that she can feel that way... she's just never shown it about HIM. That's what he wants to know, that even if things were unequal for fifteen years, she's finally there with him and wants him just as much as he wants her.

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  17. Halliebear19 April 2013 at 22:57

    I'd love to see some warring factions within the KGB and I think it could take the show in an interesting direction as well as bring some of Elizabeth's issues further into question. She's loyal to the KGB but if that's not a unit with solidarity, who then is she loyal to? At what point does it start being about what she believes rather than following orders, and then might she be more willing to sway in the direction of Philip's position? I heard we're supposed to see Gabriel in a flashback in the next one, so maybe we'll get more news on this front...

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  18. carrot20 April 2013 at 00:13

    That is a very good point. Seeing Elizabeth so distraught over Zhukov and Gregory might have actually pushed Phillip to get an apartment and to finally try to move on. It was just another painful reminder that those men meant to her what he never did. He must have felt quite invisible. Come to think of it, I feel like Phillip's role has been reduced to that of a spectator in the last few episodes, and I don't like it one bit.

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  19. Halliebear20 April 2013 at 01:50

    My impression (hope) is that Philip isn't really trying to move on from Elizabeth, exactly, but simply dealing with things as they are--adapting, if you will, to the situation at hand. He can't keep bringing his kids there, nor is he happy there. He would undoubtedly prefer it if Elizabeth got down on her knees, apologized profusely, told him she loved him and begged him to come home. But she's not doing that and he can't wait around forever for her to decide she cares. So instead he takes care of his and the kids needs rather than waiting around indefinitely to see if/when Elizabeth's PMS will pass. And I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it's sad we haven't seen much of Philip in the last few. I think he makes the show and is such an intriguing and sympathetic character and absolutely sold me on their story from the pilot. The last two have focused so heavily on Elizabeth, and too much on Stan.

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  20. carrot20 April 2013 at 03:36

    While I agree that Phillip's primary motivation for getting an apartment is his children, I still think seeing Elizabeth so emotional might have played a part. After all, getting an apartment is a much more permanent solution and they just can't keep dressing it up as "hitting the pause button" any more, IMHO. The way I see it, it's one step closer to divorce and one step further away from reconciliation. My only hope is that Phillip stays the course and doesn't reach out to Elizabeth. I fully expected a role reversal after the interrogation episode, yet Phillip ended up sleeping in a motel and Elizabeth ended up sleeping with Gregory, so you never know. And I feel like it's been too focused on Elizabeth in general. She had Gregory, Zhukov also took a special interest in her, meanwhile, people seem to be barely aware of Phillip's existence. Hope to see some development on that front.

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  21. Halliebear20 April 2013 at 13:05

    Oh I totally agree. I will be very disappointed if once again Philip is the one who gives in and Elizabeth just has to stand there and look pretty and he once again shows her how much she means to him. What I would love to see is him stay basically the same as he was here and her go a little nuts (like with Gregory and Zhukov) over him this time around. I want them to reconcile rather than grow further apart, but I want it to finally be Elizabeth sticking her neck out rather than Philip doing it all and she being the one everyone feels sorry for and accommodates.

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  22. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:13

    Yes, he basically vanished off the face of the earth. Myos makes an excellent point about Grannie never visiting the Rezidentura (not that we've seen anyway). It would be a very interesting twist if Claudia turned out to be some sort of renegade.

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  23. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:21

    Agreed. It's nice to see that she is finally beginning to realize that Phillip matters to her, but I was glad that Phillip refused her offer to move back in. He knew what she was hinting at and turned her down flat. Her words were actually rather insulting IMHO. I think she said "Yes, it's been long enough" or something to that effect. It just seemed like something a parent would say to naughty child who'd been in a timeout: "You can have desert now, Billy, you've been standing in that corner long enough". It just rubbed me the wrong way. And why was he forced to babysit the kids at that crappy motel? Why didn't he just babysit them at their house and go home when Elizabeth returned from teh club/bar?

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  24. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:30

    >>>>>>>>>but when I think about it more, Philip has been running after Elizabeth the whole marriage. She's always gotten her way and never gives anything back.

    Exactly! Why, after almost 20 years of chasing after this woman and being continually rejected, should he be forced to do it again? Why would he even want to? If nothing else, he's probably afraid of being hurt again. He clearly loves her, but this time around, Elizabeth is the one who has to make the first move toward reconciliation. And a half-hearted invitation to come home really doesn't cut it.

    If she really wanted him to come home she could have opened up her heart, just this once, and admitted that she regrets her past coldness. Perhaps even accept her share of the responsibility for their failed marriage, and apologize to Phillip. But she chose not to do that. She just walked away.

    >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the bigger picture for Elizabeth has to be that she has to stop driving him away or thinking she can turn the relationship on and off on a whim when she gets angry about something.

    She has a very mercurial temperament. My first thought when she made that offer: "Will she throw him out the next day if they have an argument?"

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  25. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:33

    Yes, it's an issue of trust. It will take time for them to learn to trust each other. Being kind to him would be a good start, but words and kind deeds aren't enough. She has to prove that she can be a reliable partner. He is always there when she needs him. She needs to prove that she can be equally loyal and dependable.

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  26. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:38

    >>>>>>>>>>>My impression (hope) is that Philip isn't really trying to move on from Elizabeth, exactly, but simply dealing with things as they are--


    I agree. I think he is trying to accept that she has never felt for him the sort of love and devotion that he feels for her, and that she felt for Gregory and Zhukov. He's attempting to be realistic.


    Still, I think, on some level, he was hoping that Elizabeth would try and persuade him to come back home. Did you see that hopeful look on his face when he asked her (twice, I think) if she wanted to see his apartment? Unfortunately, instead of openly admitting that she wanted him to come home (all she did was hint at it), she gave up and went home.

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  27. Halliebear20 April 2013 at 19:44

    I agree with you 100%. Elizabeth's feelings might've been in the right place, but her words and actions came across completely differently. She simply has no practice at putting him first, or putting herself out there and saying how she feels at the risk of getting rejected. Philip was right not to respond. He must feel like she doesn't love him at all, but merely wants him back out of comfort or to make things stable again. I don't blame him for not being willing to go through with the false pretenses unless she really does feel something for him this time--enough to say so.

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  28. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 19:46

    >>>>>And I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it's sad we haven't seen much of Philip in the last few. I think he makes the show and is such an intriguing and sympathetic character.



    He has very quickly become my favorite character for just that reason. Of the three main characters - Elizabeth, Phillip and Stan - he is the only one I sympathize with wholeheartedly. It was annoying to see him being used as little more than a stage prop during the last 2 or 3 episodes. Hopefully, that will change. While I enjoy learning more about Elizabeth's past and what motivates her, I would like to see some flashbacks involving Phillip. What was his upbringing like? Was it as austere as her's? What drove him to join the KGB? Did he do it by choice? Was he somehow forced into it? I would also like to see some flashbacks of their marriage from his perspective. We have learned in great detail how difficult everything has been for Elizabeth, but surely, he also had doubts and struggles. After all, he walked away from a woman he was deeply in love with to marry a woman who made little secret of the fact that she was unhappy with him. That can't have been easy. Perhaps next season will be given a glimpse of his past.

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  29. Halliebear20 April 2013 at 19:48

    >>>>>>>>>>She has a very mercurial temperament. My first thought when she made
    that offer: "Will she throw him out the next day if they have an
    argument?"

    Exactly. I think that until Elizabeth makes some grand gesture of feelings (probably Philip needs to hear something similar to her breakdown over Gregory or Zhukov) or at least a heartfelt "I love you and want you back" he's always going to doubt that she's sincere. He might've supported her in her grief over G/Z, but he also witnessed her breaking down and showing HUGE emotion for two other men. That is now the marker of when Elizabeth is sincere and when she isn't.

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  30. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 20:03

    >>>>>>>>or putting herself out there and saying how she feels at the risk of getting rejected.

    Yes, I got the definite impression that she was hoping she could convince him to come home "for the kids sake" or "for the jobs sake", and in that way save herself from possible rejection. While I'm glad that she's come to the realisation that she wants Phillip in her life, because I want them to reconcile, it was a cowardly way to go about asking him to return. She needs to be honest with him and perhaps a bit more honest with herself.

    Given how cold she is towards him, watching her grieve for Zhukov and Gregory had to hurt like hell.

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  31. AuroraDawn8320 April 2013 at 22:12

    >>>>>>>>>And really, I think Philip could learn to be okay with the fact that she didn't love him that way up until this point


    I think Phillip could, as well, as long as he believes that Elizabeth loves him now and is sincerely devoted to making their relationship work. I don't think he would hold the past against her. Just look at how he made an effort to get over the confession about Gregory? Just days later he was making an effort to build a decent "real" relationship with her. If she's willing to make an honest effort, I've no doubt that he would eventually take her back. The ball's in her court.


    It's funny, I actually started watching this show because I was very intrigued by the spy/plant angle, and I still find that very interesting, but it was the dynamic between P/E that truly drew me in. :) Hopefully, the writers will find some way to set them on the right path before the show ends. I don't need all the loose ends tied up in some neat little bow, but I would like to see P/E make some real progress in the last two episodes.

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  32. Halliebear21 April 2013 at 00:13

    Yes exactly. I think it would be very realistic if they continued to have problems to work through both intensely next season, and even for the rest of the series. I don't want the neat bow solution either. But that being said, I do want some sort of make up before making us wait until next January. It was good, I think, to really show the separation and not just have it be a one episode thing, but I hope we get to see them make up in a way that makes all that angst worth it, or I will be so disappointed. I'm really hoping she finally tells him she loves him in the finale.

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  33. AuroraDawn8321 April 2013 at 00:53

    >>>>>>>>>I'm really hoping she finally tells him she loves him in the finale.



    That would be nice. God knows, he deserves it.

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