Do they not realize how absurd this sounds? The entire dialogue is just plain illogical. MM suddenly changes her mind (and gives a lame excuse about killing Cora), David thinks going back will solve everyone's problems (even though he hasn't even seen FTL in over 28 years), they are growing enough beans to transport people to a hundred different lands (and still relying on the Blue Fairy to keep everyone safe, which has been proven to be a bad idea in the past). Charmings, get you act together - and by that I mean writers, of course.
I loved Emma's outfits (and hair) in season 1... Now... Well, what's wrong with that hat ?! XD But who knows, maybe in FTL she'll be wearing badass princess warrior outfit...?
I don't understand why they are trying to force this going back thing. It's annoying and I am pretty sure they won't go though with it. The whole show is based on the duplicity that comes with the modern world vs. fairy tale land. Take that away and what's left? Something far less interesting. At least they should have solid reasons behind this suggestion not the stupidity of "if we go back and everything will be fine" since, well, it wasn't before. Honestly the only thing that gave me a pause was mentioning Emma's happy ending but that's it.
"They are growing enough beans to transport people to a hundred different land."
I guess the most people come from FTL. Only a few special people who had do to with Regina are from other worlds.
"MM suddenly changes her mind".
I find it logical. She is desperate after what she had done and because of what happens with her heart. She looks for salvation and hopes that the return give it to her. It's an act of fear and helplessness. She is definitively not the first person who hopes that all things will be better at home.
Yes, I'm sure most people are from FTL, but isn't it at least tempting to try your luck somewhere else when there are so many beans available? We know for a fact they'll go to Neverland, although only Hook and a couple other characters (if any) are originally from there.
About MM, I would find it logical if it weren't for the past episodes. David used your argument in Welcome to Storybrooke, but MM refuted it. She said she had to figure things out on her own and going back to a place full of ogres and unknown dangers wouldn't solve anything. Now she changed her mind. Why? It's not that I don't think the idea is plausible, I just feel it lacks an explanation.
I don't like that they are pressuring Emma. Fairy Tale Land is not her home, she doesn't live according to these ideas of fairytale happily ever after and so on. Her life is in our world and may not have always been a perfect fairytale life, but who is to say it will be better in Fairy Tale Land. The land is destroyed and dangerous and horrible and tragic things happened to people there even before the curse. I want Emma to stay in our world. You don't have to go to Fairy Tale Land to find a happy ending.
The end scene between Snow and Charming in Selfless Brave and True clearly shows that Snow is willing to go along with it at least for now, if it helps her.
She does not want to go back to FTL. She just sees that as only way for her redemption and if "saving herself" comes at the price of doing something she does not want to - so be it. She feels that if she suddenly became Snow White again, it would fix all the problems. Its essentially a very selfish and flawed stance, but also very human one.
Its no different than any of us thinking of how great it would be to go back to year ____ of our lives, when we majorly screw up our lives.
Now of course we know that that won't fix anything, but its the only hope she has got, since Selfless Brave and True seems to have convinced her that all other methods of redemption are simply too costly.
Its part of her having to learn to cope with what she did, with the fact that there's no "magic fix" to her emotional problems(and frankly searching for magical fix for emotional problems is VERY in-character for OUAT's snow white, remember the potion in S1?) and its not really something that needs more explanation. Its just Snow being very desperate, selfish and human.
100% this will be the finale cliffhanger - a flashforward to FTL where nothing is alright and Charming screaming that they have to go back to storybrooke, just as a dragon flies through the sky above him.
"..a lushy trashy slut" where the hell do you get that from? Just because she's drinking, more confident and for once is not all warmhearted/loving and ever soo understanding for Gold? That doesn't make her a "trashy slut"...good grief!
While I DO think Emma has to find her happiness where she wants to and not specifically in FTL, I think that Emma wanting to explore that possibility is very much in character for her: let's face it, for Emma, there was NOTHING good in her life in real world - foster care, prison, giving up her own child, etc. So at least past of her must want to go.
In that way, all three of them are deluding themselves into thinking that going to other world will fix all of their problems - and they need to realize that it won't. That their problems are about them an their choices and NOT about where they are.
Their was an interview with Emilie in TVLine,a preview for S4 and she even said she 'would be wearing a trashy outfit playing pool every night and doing shots' the bar would be her home.That just might be 'Where the hell' Isbloom got that from!
Um...I don't like Rumplebelle? I think it is creepy stockholm syndrome. I could care less how Belle relates to Gold. Lacey is dressed in a trashy dress with half falling down hair and bad posture and fills her wine glass up to the tip top. I have no problem with women owning their own sexuality, I applaud it. But that doesn't mean the Lacey doesn't look trashy, and isn't supposed to look trashy. It isn't her personality, it is the life that Regina cursed her with, which is sad, hence the "poor girl" and sad in its very cliche portrayal. But if I'm supposed to read that as anything but Lacey=cheap lush slut, then OUaT made a bad move in using every slutty cliche in the book to show me her "new and improved sexually confident, strong woman cursed personality."
But she has SEEN Fairy Tale Land. It is destroyed and full of dangerous creatures. It will take many, many years to rebuild it if they can ever succeed in rebuilding it. In our world she has found Henry and a place where she wants to settle for the first time in a very long time.
Prince Charming, I can understand. He has not seen the horrible truth of what is now Fairy Tale Land. He can cling to hope and illusions. Emma and Snow White know better.
Thanks for that article. It also said, "scantily-clad bar whore" was the script description. So I don't think the costume, hair and makeup departments got the wrong memo. Lacey's not supposed to look like a classy lady.
No she isn't, and boy are people going to be in for a surprise if they think otherwise! I don't know what is going on lately,but a lot of newbies are just down right rude and narrow minded.
This is not about Rumbelle, it's not even about Belle.
Maybe it is about "cheap cliches" and you jumped on the bandwagon the writers supposingly gave you, or put better: you commented with the suggested attributes/words.
To be honest, I find Belle here really refreshing because she left her "goodhearted till death girl" character. ESPECIALLY in regards to Gold! But is the only thinkable opposite to "goodhearted girl" the "trashy slut"? Yes, cheap writing, maybe I should be mad at the writers. They serve the old stereotypes and people buy it.
I think your frustration is that you are assuming that the writers are going for the "opposite of good girl" and equating that to slut, as though good girls can't have a sexual identity. There is nothing to suggest that Belle is not able to identify with her own sexuality, and there is nothing to suggest that Regina's creation is meant to highlight that. All we are given is that Regina made her a "scantily-clad bar whore" per the leaked script description. The fact that I've identified her as she has been described in the script says nothing whatsoever about the ability of women to be sexual creatures or the idea that goodhearted women can't be in touch with their sexuality or me "slut-shamming" Belle. It only says that Regina thought making Belle into a drunken slut was a fitting punishment for Gold. And I thought that was cruel and I felt bad for Belle.
She's not just drinking in a bar playing pool and acting sexually confident. She's drinking to excess, hanging out in bars all the time (apparently according to the interview), wearing trashy clothes with trashy hair and trashy makeup. Drinking to excess is being a lush in both men and women. If a guy overfilled his wine glass, I'd assume he had a drinking problem same as Belle. If a guy is a sleeping around there are more words than just man whore. If he does it confidently, suavely, in a nice suit, he's a player. If he is a lounge lizard with slicked back hair, he's a slime ball, pimp daddy type. Whale was just a douche bag. I agree that there isn't a single nomenclature for men being "sluts." But that doesn't mean that there aren't equivalent concepts and it doesn't mean that being a sexually promiscuous alcoholic in cheap trashy clothes isn't being a slut and should be viewed as a good thing.
"Whale was just a douche bag" LOL! How did he enter the discussion?
Seriously: We could discuss on this matter for hours. What is supposingly a "good thing" what is a "bad thing", what is appropiate, when and for whom? Who is telling the story? Does the gender make a difference in our perception (IMO of course, because we learned so). These are all things to think about. Thanks for the input:)!
She had led a horribly lonely life for 28 years (except for the few months with Neil). "Not always perfect fairytale life" doesn't even begin to cut it, IMO.
for some reason that made me laugh which I needed after seeing the dreadful choice of clothes Emma's wearing and the silly way her parents try to push her to go to FTL.
I hope that is what they are going for, for the sake of the plot. I must admit I don't quite remember all of Snow's reactions by the end of 2x18 (and let's all once again thank ABC for this ridiculously long break), but if they go for it showing how flawed characters are, as Zsaza said, all the better. I don't think it solves all problems, but it goes in the right direction.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Whoa there Belle, aren't you thirsty!
ReplyDelete"There is a dangerous person in town."
ReplyDelete"Doesn't matter."
----
"We can fix it all back in our land, like we did before."
*facepalm*
We have to go back, Emma! WE HAVE TO GO BAAAAACK!
ReplyDeleteEmma and MM matching hats. I'm pretty sure 99% of people will think it's cute, but I simply can't buy that thing on Emma. Looks out of character, IMO.
ReplyDeleteDo they not realize how absurd this sounds? The entire dialogue is just plain illogical. MM suddenly changes her mind (and gives a lame excuse about killing Cora), David thinks going back will solve everyone's problems (even though he hasn't even seen FTL in over 28 years), they are growing enough beans to transport people to a hundred different lands (and still relying on the Blue Fairy to keep everyone safe, which has been proven to be a bad idea in the past). Charmings, get you act together - and by that I mean writers, of course.
ReplyDeleteI consider them acknowledged character flaws. And that is all fine. For me anyway.
ReplyDeleteSo Regina made Belle a lushy trashy slut? That was a low blow madame mayor. Poor girl.
ReplyDeleteYes, it looks like our badass Emma Swan stayed in FTL, now we have Emma Charming...
ReplyDeleteI loved Emma's outfits (and hair) in season 1... Now... Well, what's wrong with that hat ?! XD But who knows, maybe in FTL she'll be wearing badass princess warrior outfit...?
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why they are trying to force this going back thing. It's annoying and I am pretty sure they won't go though with it. The whole show is based on the duplicity that comes with the modern world vs. fairy tale land. Take that away and what's left? Something far less interesting. At least they should have solid reasons behind this suggestion not the stupidity of "if we go back and everything will be fine" since, well, it wasn't before. Honestly the only thing that gave me a pause was mentioning Emma's happy ending but that's it.
ReplyDeleteMmm, I love me some Emilie de Ravin. And Jorge Garcia on anything is always welcome.
ReplyDelete"They are growing enough beans to transport people to a hundred different land."
ReplyDeleteI guess the most people come from FTL. Only a few special people who had do to with Regina are from other worlds.
"MM suddenly changes her mind".
I find it logical. She is desperate after what she had done and because of what happens with her heart. She looks for salvation and hopes that the return give it to her. It's an act of fear and helplessness. She is definitively not the first person who hopes that all things will be better at home.
Yes, I'm sure most people are from FTL, but isn't it at least tempting to try your luck somewhere else when there are so many beans available? We know for a fact they'll go to Neverland, although only Hook and a couple other characters (if any) are originally from there.
ReplyDeleteAbout MM, I would find it logical if it weren't for the past episodes. David used your argument in Welcome to Storybrooke, but MM refuted it. She said she had to figure things out on her own and going back to a place full of ogres and unknown dangers wouldn't solve anything. Now she changed her mind. Why? It's not that I don't think the idea is plausible, I just feel it lacks an explanation.
Yeah, absolutely awful (hat) outfit! What we are supposed to think ...is this her "mature outfit" now?? LMAO!!
ReplyDeleteI don't like that they are pressuring Emma. Fairy Tale Land is not her home, she doesn't live according to these ideas of fairytale happily ever after and so on. Her life is in our world and may not have always been a perfect fairytale life, but who is to say it will be better in Fairy Tale Land. The land is destroyed and dangerous and horrible and tragic things happened to people there even before the curse. I want Emma to stay in our world. You don't have to go to Fairy Tale Land to find a happy ending.
ReplyDeleteThe end scene between Snow and Charming in Selfless Brave and True clearly shows that Snow is willing to go along with it at least for now, if it helps her.
ReplyDeleteShe does not want to go back to FTL. She just sees that as only way for her redemption and if "saving herself" comes at the price of doing something she does not want to - so be it. She feels that if she suddenly became Snow White again, it would fix all the problems. Its essentially a very selfish and flawed stance, but also very human one.
Its no different than any of us thinking of how great it would be to go back to year ____ of our lives, when we majorly screw up our lives.
Now of course we know that that won't fix anything, but its the only hope she has got, since Selfless Brave and True seems to have convinced her that all other methods of redemption are simply too costly.
Its part of her having to learn to cope with what she did, with the fact that there's no "magic fix" to her emotional problems(and frankly searching for magical fix for emotional problems is VERY in-character for OUAT's snow white, remember the potion in S1?) and its not really something that needs more explanation. Its just Snow being very desperate, selfish and human.
100% this will be the finale cliffhanger - a flashforward to FTL where nothing is alright and Charming screaming that they have to go back to storybrooke, just as a dragon flies through the sky above him.
ReplyDelete"..a lushy trashy slut" where the hell do you get that from? Just because she's drinking, more confident and for once is not all warmhearted/loving and ever soo understanding for Gold? That doesn't make her a "trashy slut"...good grief!
ReplyDeleteWhile I DO think Emma has to find her happiness where she wants to and not specifically in FTL, I think that Emma wanting to explore that possibility is very much in character for her: let's face it, for Emma, there was NOTHING good in her life in real world - foster care, prison, giving up her own child, etc. So at least past of her must want to go.
ReplyDeleteIn that way, all three of them are deluding themselves into thinking that going to other world will fix all of their problems - and they need to realize that it won't. That their problems are about them an their choices and NOT about where they are.
Don't pay too much attention to posts like that. Slut-shaming of Lacey has been one of the most disgraceful things about ouat fandom this year.
ReplyDeleteWell, I couldn't help myself. People need TO THINK, before telling crap.....
ReplyDeleteTheir was an interview with Emilie in TVLine,a preview for S4 and she even said she 'would be wearing a trashy outfit playing pool every night and doing shots' the bar would be her home.That just might be 'Where the hell' Isbloom got that from!
ReplyDeleteDude!
ReplyDeleteUm...I don't like Rumplebelle? I think it is creepy stockholm syndrome. I could care less how Belle relates to Gold. Lacey is dressed in a trashy dress with half falling down hair and bad posture and fills her wine glass up to the tip top. I have no problem with women owning their own sexuality, I applaud it. But that doesn't mean the Lacey doesn't look trashy, and isn't supposed to look trashy. It isn't her personality, it is the life that Regina cursed her with, which is sad, hence the "poor girl" and sad in its very cliche portrayal. But if I'm supposed to read that as anything but Lacey=cheap lush slut, then OUaT made a bad move in using every slutty cliche in the book to show me her "new and improved sexually confident, strong woman cursed personality."
ReplyDeleteBut she has SEEN Fairy Tale Land. It is destroyed and full of dangerous creatures. It will take many, many years to rebuild it if they can ever succeed in rebuilding it. In our world she has found Henry and a place where she wants to settle for the first time in a very long time.
ReplyDeletePrince Charming, I can understand. He has not seen the horrible truth of what is now Fairy Tale Land. He can cling to hope and illusions. Emma and Snow White know better.
Thanks for that article. It also said, "scantily-clad bar whore" was the script description. So I don't think the costume, hair and makeup departments got the wrong memo. Lacey's not supposed to look like a classy lady.
ReplyDeleteIf they give us the dragon, I might be able to forgive the rest.
ReplyDeleteNo she isn't, and boy are people going to be in for a surprise if they think otherwise! I don't know what is going on lately,but a lot of newbies are just down right rude and narrow minded.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this time their date won't be interrupted? :)
ReplyDeleteThis is not about Rumbelle, it's not even about Belle.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it is about "cheap cliches" and you jumped on the bandwagon the writers supposingly gave you, or put better: you commented with the suggested attributes/words.
To be honest, I find Belle here really refreshing because she left her "goodhearted till death girl" character. ESPECIALLY in regards to Gold! But is the only thinkable opposite to "goodhearted girl" the "trashy slut"? Yes, cheap writing, maybe I should be mad at the writers. They serve the old stereotypes and people buy it.
I think your frustration is that you are assuming that the writers are going for the "opposite of good girl" and equating that to slut, as though good girls can't have a sexual identity. There is nothing to suggest that Belle is not able to identify with her own sexuality, and there is nothing to suggest that Regina's creation is meant to highlight that. All we are given is that Regina made her a "scantily-clad bar whore" per the leaked script description. The fact that I've identified her as she has been described in the script says nothing whatsoever about the ability of women to be sexual creatures or the idea that goodhearted women can't be in touch with their sexuality or me "slut-shamming" Belle. It only says that Regina thought making Belle into a drunken slut was a fitting punishment for Gold. And I thought that was cruel and I felt bad for Belle.
ReplyDeletein any case, it's going to have a horrible cgi...
ReplyDeleteShe's not just drinking in a bar playing pool and acting sexually confident. She's drinking to excess, hanging out in bars all the time (apparently according to the interview), wearing trashy clothes with trashy hair and trashy makeup. Drinking to excess is being a lush in both men and women. If a guy overfilled his wine glass, I'd assume he had a drinking problem same as Belle. If a guy is a sleeping around there are more words than just man whore. If he does it confidently, suavely, in a nice suit, he's a player. If he is a lounge lizard with slicked back hair, he's a slime ball, pimp daddy type. Whale was just a douche bag. I agree that there isn't a single nomenclature for men being "sluts." But that doesn't mean that there aren't equivalent concepts and it doesn't mean that being a sexually promiscuous alcoholic in cheap trashy clothes isn't being a slut and should be viewed as a good thing.
ReplyDelete"Whale was just a douche bag" LOL! How did he enter the discussion?
ReplyDeleteSeriously: We could discuss on this matter for hours. What is supposingly a "good thing" what is a "bad thing", what is appropiate, when and for whom? Who is telling the story? Does the gender make a difference in our perception (IMO of course, because we learned so). These are all things to think about. Thanks for the input:)!
She had led a horribly lonely life for 28 years (except for the few months with Neil). "Not always perfect fairytale life" doesn't even begin to cut it, IMO.
ReplyDeleteI think MM and Emma's outfits are cute!
ReplyDeletefor some reason that made me laugh which I needed after seeing the dreadful choice of clothes Emma's wearing and the silly way her parents try to push her to go to FTL.
ReplyDeleteWow, welcome to horrible dialogue-ville. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI hope that is what they are going for, for the sake of the plot. I must admit I don't quite remember all of Snow's reactions by the end of 2x18 (and let's all once again thank ABC for this ridiculously long break), but if they go for it showing how flawed characters are, as Zsaza said, all the better.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it solves all problems, but it goes in the right direction.
It looks like her mom dressed her. I miss her fashion choices of last year.
ReplyDelete