Ok I like the part with Charming trying to convince Snow that killing Cora is not the answer. I really have a problem with how the Charmings are acting around Rumple though. Did these guys forget that he actually threatened to kill them all a couple of episodes ago. This show makes no sense sometimes. Gotta say.
To be honest, Charmings are a bit biased onto hating Regina more, although they do not trust Rumple either - remember them wanting to CONTROL the dark one in previous ep?
Huh, well, isn't that nice. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in Charming's statement?!? So basically he's saying he's fine with murder, just doesn't want Snow to get her hands dirty.
Dear writers, why do you have to put me in such a difficult position? As much as I adore Josh Dallas, Charming as a character mostly bugs the hell out of me. :( Last season as David Nolan at least he felt sympathy, now he's back to being arrogant, self-righteous and violent. :(
If its done by someone who holds no direct grudge its execution - the person does it because he has to, in this case. If SNOW does it, she does it because she wants it and she would enjoy it - that is revenge.
There's a universal idea that the taking of life - regardless of justification or involvement - has an impact on the human psyche. That's why policemen and military officers go through extensive psych evaluation after they've shot someone, to determine whether they're still fit for duty or the act has caused permanent mental damage.
Of course, murder is much more likely to affect a person mentally, but I think that Charming's concern here is that Cora's death should not be a burden on Snow's conscience. We can safely infer that he'll be content if Regina killed her mother to revenge Daniel. But he won't be too happy if Henry, for example, or Ruby, carried out the "execution", although they don't hold a direct grudge against Cora and would not "enjoy" it.
Actually, in Storybrooke they are supposed to be both modern day people AND medieval style characters. ("We Are Both")
If we apply only the fairytale logic, then the law is what the sovereign says it is. A royal is never wrong when he/she kills someone and he/she commits no crime. It's always justified execution, therefore murder by a royal is a non-existent concept.
Emma obviously wants to have family(and in the next episode she even talks with hold on how she does see him as his family, pretty much implying that he should start looking at them that way and feeling that way too)
No one is defending Cora's life here, she's done horrible things, and more than any of the other "villains" is portrayed as an incarnation of evil. But I disagree that Snow has been portrayed as an incarnation of innocence. We have seen her storm a castle, wound and probably kill guards (1x21). As for her "forgiveness", Ginny mentioned recently that Snow feels the need to be morally blameless, to have a "perfect record", to be the ultimate good girl. As we saw in 2x15, she wants to hold on to her mother's legacy. But at the same time, she is a flawed character, and in the scenes we've seen her give Regina "forgiveness" and a second chance, I think it stemms
Snow has killed before, but that was always in war and not directed at a single person out of revenge. She killed guards when they stormed the castle to free Charming.
Actually according to show-runners - she incapacitated them, not killed them.
She has never ever, ever taken a human life.
And now she intends to take one for revenge and gain satisfaction from it. If she succeeds - everything Snow has built herself as will fall apart and that's what Charming worries about.
I respectfully disagree. If he explicitly stated that he wanted Cora to stand trial in Storybrooke and then meet her punishment, then you could argue that he wants a just execution instead of murder. But in the sneak peek it's only clear that he doesn't want Snow to be person doing the killing. Would he stop Rumple from killing Cora? Would he stop Regina from killing Cora? No, because he doesn't really care about Rumple's conscience, and he wouldn't care if Regina killed her own mother.
I'm having a really hard time understanding what differentiates Cora and Rumple. Both are current, immediate threats and have made threats against them within the past few days.
A million times this. I love Rumple, but it annoys me how people seem to forget he probably and most likely killed and manipulated more people than Regina and Cora combined. If you hate the Mills, you should hate him as well. Besides, he didn't even hint at a road to redemption. He brought magic to Storybrooke, tried to have Regina killed, never once apologized for absolutely any of his actions, plotted with Regina to cast a spell that could have killed Snow and Emma, continued manipulating everyone and didn't change one bit, not even when Belle asked him to.
"If he explicitly stated that he wanted Cora to stand trial in Storybrooke and then meet her punishment, then you could argue that he wants a just execution instead of murder." That is not true (it is not a logical conclusion). It is precisely the other way around. Because he didn't explicitly state if he means execution or murder, one can argue both positions.
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I like this Snow. I like Charming trying to keep her herself, too.
ReplyDeleteOk I like the part with Charming trying to convince Snow that killing Cora is not the answer. I really have a problem with how the Charmings are acting around Rumple though. Did these guys forget that he actually threatened to kill them all a couple of episodes ago. This show makes no sense sometimes. Gotta say.
ReplyDeleteGuess it's 'Meet the Parents' time for Neal...
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, Charmings are a bit biased onto hating Regina more, although they do not trust Rumple either - remember them wanting to CONTROL the dark one in previous ep?
ReplyDeleteAlthough the fact that convo is happening at the START, means that it will do absolutely nothing and Snow will actually do something messed up.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't make sense ! It's making me angry this entire season!
ReplyDeleteHuh, well, isn't that nice. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in Charming's statement?!? So basically he's saying he's fine with murder, just doesn't want Snow to get her hands dirty.
ReplyDeleteDear writers, why do you have to put me in such a difficult position? As much as I adore Josh Dallas, Charming as a character mostly bugs the hell out of me. :( Last season as David Nolan at least he felt sympathy, now he's back to being arrogant, self-righteous and violent. :(
Not murder - execution.
ReplyDeleteIf its done by someone who holds no direct grudge its execution - the person does it because he has to, in this case.
If SNOW does it, she does it because she wants it and she would enjoy it - that is revenge.
I don't know. To me it sounds more like he doesn't care how it happens as long as Cora'S dead and Snow didn't do it too.
ReplyDeleteBut they are related through bloodline now. On OUAT that means he's family now.
ReplyDeleteThere's a universal idea that the taking of life - regardless of justification or involvement - has an impact on the human psyche. That's why policemen and military officers go through extensive psych evaluation after they've shot someone, to determine whether they're still fit for duty or the act has caused permanent mental damage.
ReplyDeleteOf course, murder is much more likely to affect a person mentally, but I think that Charming's concern here is that Cora's death should not be a burden on Snow's conscience. We can safely infer that he'll be content if Regina killed her mother to revenge Daniel. But he won't be too happy if Henry, for example, or Ruby, carried out the "execution", although they don't hold a direct grudge against Cora and would not "enjoy" it.
And we are not talking about "modern life" We are talking about medieval style characters of a fairy tale.
ReplyDeleteBecause Cora deserves it. And yeah, frankly she does.
ReplyDeleteBut Snow, specifically, wants it for wrong reasons and through morally wrong means. that's what he is not okay with.
Actually, in Storybrooke they are supposed to be both modern day people AND medieval style characters. ("We Are Both")
ReplyDeleteIf we apply only the fairytale logic, then the law is what the sovereign says it is. A royal is never wrong when he/she kills someone and he/she commits no crime. It's always justified execution, therefore murder by a royal is a non-existent concept.
And if both sides want to be a family, they are.
ReplyDeleteEmma obviously wants to have family(and in the next episode she even talks with hold on how she does see him as his family, pretty much implying that he should start looking at them that way and feeling that way too)
No one is defending Cora's life here, she's done horrible things, and more than any of the other "villains" is portrayed as an incarnation of evil. But I disagree that Snow has been portrayed as an incarnation of innocence. We have seen her storm a castle, wound and probably kill guards (1x21). As for her "forgiveness", Ginny mentioned recently that Snow feels the need to be morally blameless, to have a "perfect record", to be the ultimate good girl. As we saw in 2x15, she wants to hold on to her mother's legacy. But at the same time, she is a flawed character, and in the scenes we've seen her give Regina "forgiveness" and a second chance, I think it stemms
ReplyDeleteSnow has killed before, but that was always in war and not directed at a single person out of revenge. She killed guards when they stormed the castle to free Charming.
ReplyDeleteAnd that attitude is a correct one - Cora deserves to die, but NOT by Snow's hand, because of implications of WHAT Snow wants.
ReplyDeleteActually according to show-runners - she incapacitated them, not killed them.
ReplyDeleteShe has never ever, ever taken a human life.
And now she intends to take one for revenge and gain satisfaction from it. If she succeeds - everything Snow has built herself as will fall apart and that's what Charming worries about.
I respectfully disagree. If he explicitly stated that he wanted Cora to stand trial in Storybrooke and then meet her punishment, then you could argue that he wants a just execution instead of murder.
ReplyDeleteBut in the sneak peek it's only clear that he doesn't want Snow to be person doing the killing. Would he stop Rumple from killing Cora? Would he stop Regina from killing Cora? No, because he doesn't really care about Rumple's conscience, and he wouldn't care if Regina killed her own mother.
So, murder.
ReplyDeleteI'm having a really hard time understanding what differentiates Cora and Rumple. Both are current, immediate threats and have made threats against them within the past few days.
ReplyDeleteA million times this. I love Rumple, but it annoys me how people seem to forget he probably and most likely killed and manipulated more people than Regina and Cora combined. If you hate the Mills, you should hate him as well.
ReplyDeleteBesides, he didn't even hint at a road to redemption. He brought magic to Storybrooke, tried to have Regina killed, never once apologized for absolutely any of his actions, plotted with Regina to cast a spell that could have killed Snow and Emma, continued manipulating everyone and didn't change one bit, not even when Belle asked him to.
Gross baby cora
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but Cora is a little bit too far to get a trial ;]
ReplyDeleteA bank robber who opens fire at the crowd and is shot by a cop usually does not get trial too :)
"If he explicitly stated that he wanted Cora to stand trial in Storybrooke and then meet her punishment, then you could argue that he wants a just execution instead of murder." That is not true (it is not a logical conclusion). It is precisely the other way around. Because he didn't explicitly state if he means execution or murder, one can argue both positions.
ReplyDeleteThis is EXACTLY my issue with the Charming Clan. Their claim of being "good" comes off as utterly disingenuous.
ReplyDelete