Tonight’s Supernatural episode, “Everybody Hates Hitler,” was written by Ben
Edlund and directed by Phil Sgriccia, both Supernatural
veterans and they delivered one of the best and most satisfying episodes yet
this season. In fact, this episode featured pretty much everything that there
is to love about Supernatural: great dialogue, an interesting and pretty cool
monster of the week – of both the friendly and non-friendly varieties,
wonderful sets, brotherly love, a little comedy, great special effects, and
outstanding lighting and production values.
First? Those sets! Jerry Wanek earned
my respect a long time ago and earned a reputation for amazing themed motel
sets, but two of tonight’s sets just blew me away. The Nazi camp in the first
scene was stunning. In fact, between the detail and richness of the set – and the
costumes! – that set was feature film worthy. We keep hearing about the budget
constraints the show is always under, but you would never know it from sets
like that. The second set was, of course, the Men of Letters bunker. Just wow.
And this one we have been promised we will keep for some time. It’s a wonderful
space – I love the two floors and stairs – not to mention the gigantic
telescope! And of course, a library to make Sam’s scholarly heart sing. I’m
hoping we will eventually also see the rest of the bunker’s rooms too.
This episode once again featured a
wonderful guest star – Hal Linden. Many may remember him from the long-running
sitcom Barney Miller (1974-82).
Miller was fantastic as Rabbi Bass, the last Rabbi of the Judah Initiative. He
follows in the footsteps of guest stars like Mike Ferrell from earlier this
season and Chad Everett in season five. I wish we had had more of him, and I
really wish he’d had a scene with Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen
Ackles).
The opening scene with the brothers
finds them pulling up outside of the Men of Letters bunker in Lebanon, Kansas.
As it happens, Lebanon, Kansas is famous for being the geographic center of the
contiguous United States. It’s interesting that the boys’ new home is back in
Kansas. My favorite line once they get into the bunker is Dean’s exclamation: “Sammy,
I think we found the Bat Cave!” Sam is immediately intrigued by the records and
books of lore. Dean is more interested in the shower. I like that they remark
on the fact that there is water and electricity after all this time and they
have no idea why. As we know that the Men of Letters were versed in magic, I’m
going with that being the explanation. It will be interesting to see if that
does play out and whether Dean will be disturbed by them using magic if it does
turn out that way. The question of why things still work is a bit of a glaring
hole but at least they do address it somewhat.
Dean appears to be a bit intimidated
by the Men of Letters. We’ve seen him in the past feel inadequate in the face
of those he thinks have a superior intellect. He tries to tell Sam not to put
too much stock in the records – they only go as far as 1958 after all – and the
Men of Letters was a secret society, so they must have been a bit wacky. My
theory is that Dean knows Sam pretty well. He knows that if he’s too
enthusiastic, Sam will put the brakes on. So he leaves Sam for two weeks to go
check on Kevin and Garth and lets Sam immerse himself in the records. By the
time Dean arrives back, Sam is pretty enthralled. By the end of the episode,
Sam is even more interested in the records and what they could mean for helping
people. Dean says to him, so you’re a Man of Letters now. Sam looks pleased –
and so does Dean as he says “Good.” By putting it out there at the beginning of
the episode that the information stopped at 1958, it was like throwing the
gauntlet down for Sam to fill in that information. Dean knows his brother, and
I think he took the opportunity to find a way that Sam would be happy and want
to continue hunting. It remains to be seen how happy Dean will ultimately be
being so tied down. For now, however, the episode ends with them sincerely
toasting each across the table. They felt much more like they were back in it
together than they did at the end of “Torn an dFrayed.”
The episode did a nice job of touching
base with the larger season myth arc by having Dean go to check on Kevin. It
was also interesting that he mentioned Cas. Dean had obviously actively been
trying to contact Cas and had had no luck.
It was interesting that Sam stepped
back into the scholar mode even when he went undercover to retrace Rabbi Bass’
steps. He tells the librarian that he’s retracing the Rabbi’s research steps to
finish writing his last paper. He’s even dressed like an academic – with patches
on his suit coat and a sweater under it. However, as soon as I saw what was
obviously the wrong book in the crate, I would have gone to its place on the
shelf. Meanwhile, Aaron (Adam Rose) hitting on Dean, and Dean’s level of
discomfort were hilarious.
Rose does a fantastic job bringing
Aaron’s learning curve and changing commitment to life. John DeSantis as his
Golem is equally terrific. His very presence at 6’11” is intimidating and his
deep voice just completes the character. Rose and DeSantis had great chemistry
together as well. I’m really, really hoping we will get to see them again! One
great scene was Dean and Sam burning the Thule sorcerer’s body and Aaron
exclaiming, “Oh my God! These guys are psychopaths!” And then Sam warming his
hands over the burning body.
It was interesting that the Golem
recognized the Men of Letters but not hunters. It seems that the Judah
Initiative and the Thule society are just two more of a network of secret
societies. This really is a great plot device that could provide material for a
very long time to come. When Eckhart (Bernhard Forcher) shows up, we finally
learn the importance of the red ledger. Not only does it contain all of the
magical, horrendous experiments he performed, it also lists all the dead Thule
members who have been re-animated.
Eckhart is able to gain the upper
hand because Aaron has not been a good observant Jew. In fact, he hasn’t been a
very good grandson either as he didn’t pay attention to the stories his
grandfather tried to tell him. He isn’t able to control the Golem because he
used the instruction manual for rolling papers when he was in high school.
Eckhart is able to make the Golem give up the scroll that controls it. I found
it really interesting that this episode finally provides us with subtitles when
we’ve had Latin and Enochian being spoken for years with no subtitles.
There is beautiful shot just at the
end of the scene when the brothers kill Eckhart – and it was lovely to see them
shoot in unison and kill the monster together. At the very end of the scene,
the camera pans in to a close up of Eckhart’s ring which has a picture of a
dagger carved into it. The dagger is pointing down toward the scroll, almost
indicating that the scroll which controls the Golem is the thing that will keep
the Thule at bay.
Once they regain the upper hand,
Aaron decides that he is going to re-animate the Golem and take control of it.
Sam tells him the Golem is made to go to war and asks Aaron if he is prepared
to take that on. Aaron has had a very steep learning curve. He’s learned his
grandfather’s stories are true. He’s also learned that the Thule society is a
credible threat. Aaron feels that there is something only he can do, and that’s
control the Golem. Aaron commits to taking on the mantle of the Judah Initiative
as he is the last one left – much like Sam and Dean are the last legacies.
Aaron’s journey also felt a bit like John Winchester’s and even Kevin Trans.
Free will might allow them to walk away, but destiny rests heavily upon them.
While this was primarily a standalone
episode, it felt like it advanced the overall mytharc too. I really liked how
Edlund carefully included shout outs to other important characters. The bunker
opens up so many possibilities to help with the tablets as well. Do you like
this new aspect to the show? Do you think this finally offers a balance that
both Sam and Dean can live with? Did you enjoy the episode? Are you happy to
see the brothers back together? Let me know in the comments below.










I just don't want them turning this into Indiana Jones (the bat cave). Where's the surprise and mystery, if they have all the knowledge and info on everything? I want Dean and Sam to be primarily hunting; fighting demons, working with Cas, etc. I want some mystery . . . .
ReplyDeleteThere was mystery last night. They had no idea they idea they were up against a golem, Nazi necromancers, or how to control a golem. It had its mystery. The knowledge has nothing new in it since 1958 and Monsters themselves have changed since the Apocalypse. I think they will be finding info to help at times, yes but after research like Bobby did.
ReplyDeleteI loved this episode immensely. The costumes were fabulous and the sets were wonderful. I loved the story line. It was one of the best episodes in a season full of great episodes. You never have to worry when the writing is in Edlund's hands.
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that they mentioned how the records stop at 1958 was them saying that the knowledge the bat cave provides while vast also has limits. They arent going to be able to use it for every hunt or every jam they get into. Sam and Dean are still going to need to apply their own knowledge and incorporate both the MoL and Hunter side of things together to find the balance.
ReplyDeleteFirst off I really did love this episode. My only complaint was the production. Especially the scene taking place in Germany. I kind of miss how the show looked in early episodes, really gritty like in Croatoan. It's become really bright, almost to a comedic effect. But again, I really did love the episode.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I get the feeling that Dean might go rogue at the end of the season. Because he's the only one who doesn't have a secret society or purpose like Sam and Aaron
ReplyDeleteWhat I really appreciated was the fact that those Germans actually talked german without an english accent. What annoys me the most is when they hire actors who speak broken german with a terribly strong english accent but no, these were speaking accentfree, grammatically accurate german. Appreciated it big time! Took it seriously .... All in all, a great episode
ReplyDeleteLove the review and the ep last night was super. Sets were movie quality and want to see more of Aaron and Golem.
ReplyDeleteThanks! That's a great insight. It's been a long time since I took German, and I have to admit that I get even lazier when there are subtitles. Just another example of the great production values. Now I'm curious if the actors were that fluent of if they hired people to dub over them...
ReplyDeleteTotally agree! Edlund has never let me down!
ReplyDeleteI think there are a lot of factors that will keep it from destroying the mystery. First, the knowledge does stop in 1958. Second, there's no guarantee that the Men of Letters were interested in the same things as run of the mill Hunters. They may have been more interested in things to do with other secret societies or magic. Third, the information was stored in 1958. If they are on the road, they have no way to access it - it's not available via computer - or phone, if no one else is there... Bear in mind too, that a lot of people object to Cas for the very same reason. There's no danger when he can simply swoop in and fix them. I've never agreed with that assessment either!
ReplyDeleteThanks! Aaron and Golem are such great characters. Fingers crossed for more...
ReplyDeleteI think that there is the possibility that Dean will feel slighted or left out, but I think he's proven several times already this season that he's not going to leave Sam. I think that Dean is the one who is going to continue to question the Men of Letters - a lot more critically than Sam.
ReplyDeleteDean has a secret society also, he just isn't that interested. But, I will guess he will be interested in all of their "toys"... I am peeking at the HUGE telescope they seem to have. I wanna play with that! What I don't like is the idea of leaving Sam in the bunker while Dean goes out and has adventures. The boys are better (and safer) together.
ReplyDeleteLoved the episode and loved your review! Like always, it was very in depth; touched upon all the major parts of the plot and was just plain old pleasing to read :)
ReplyDeleteI really do hope that this new part of their life will work out for the brothers. :)
Sam didn't care for the good of humanity at all and now, magically, he's all excited for it. Sam feels so special now, be a hunter and save lives has never been important enough for him. It seems to me the same thing we saw in the fourth season and it's called desire for power.
ReplyDeleteAnd to Dean there's no mitharc as always.
Sam just wanted something different not because he doesnt care about humanity I think like Dean he has given alot to protect innocents. He stopped the Apocalypse by taking on Lucifer .I really dont know what Sam is supposed to do ? .and it is sad he cant geek out over the Library and it be seen has some sort of season 4 power hunger by him.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Sharonally,there will always be some gunning for Sam regardless of what he does..iv'e gotten used to it by now..x x
ReplyDeleteI thnk it was in Belarus, not Germany.
ReplyDeleteright like Dean didnt care for humanity at all when he gave up hunting or when he was going to say Yes to Michael which would wipe out half of the planet?
ReplyDeleteSam just did something because he felt guilty about the apocalypse and it's all what Kripke wanted to canonize him just take Dean off the mitharc. When he had his soul back, he said that neither felt guilty anymore. So easy to forget all the evil he has done, isn't?
ReplyDeleteAnd again, when Dean missing he didn't care about humanity instead of fighting, because
the fight was not over, he left the world - and kevin with Crowley - at the mercy of the remaining leviathans.
If Sam's love research that much, looking at a book or two to some information on the Dean's whereabouts should have been a pleasure, but not ... He not even try look for him.
If it's just for the pleasure of knowledge, not for power, why Sam not told to Dean what the old man of letters said, that was too much power to fall into the wrong hands and should be locked for ever?
Thanks! I'm excited to see where it takes them. I'm sure the road will be bumpy as always, but I'm also sure that this is going to be a bona fide break for them.... finally!
ReplyDeleteYes, it was Belarus. If you were watching in Canada, there was a banner at the bottom of the screen that made that very hard to see. If they listed a year, that was completely covered. Thankfully, they removed it before the subtitles started.
ReplyDeleteOwww... Poor little sammy... Don't mater what he does to Dean, Benny, Martin - just in this season -... Never is his fault...
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, I was just recently rewatching one of the season one episodes--the Wendigo one--and couldn't believe how literally dark it was. Looking back on it now, it actually seems too damn dark; half the time, you couldn't even see faces clearly. I take your point and agree that horror needs more than its fair share of darkness, but I do think they kinda went overboard in that direction early on, sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI frickin' hate the way they manage to impose commercials onto a show with that method, and doubly hate it when the stupid banner conceals important information. BOOO, CHCH!!!!!
ReplyDeleteDean was depressed and lost because he had seen the future and knew that Sam say yes to Lucifer and he had no other means to try to save at least a part of humanity, because in 2014 there was more humanity to be saved.
ReplyDeleteBut, hey, Dean did not say yes, right?
Great episode, and great review! Glad to see you defending Sam's squee moments about the library in your comments below, too; I had a little squee moment myself when I saw all that stuff--especially the telescope! There hAS to be something important about it coming, given that they were careful to stick it into a few shots. This new set should/could, as you suggest, provide a great balance between a break/home base and a limitation.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, we got a new secret society last week, and the two MORE new ones this week? I guess we can assume that the Judah Initiative and the whatever of Thule will be mostly off screen, but how many secret societies do we need, really?
And I totally agree, we NEED to see the Golem again! What a great character and a great performance (even if they did tweak him a bit with CGI).
Hunh?
ReplyDeleteAnd when Dean took a year off he was looking out for humanity was he? really certainly Sam not looking for Dean was a mistake on the writers part but the rest of what you are saying is based on a hate for Sam not anything else. We dont know what Sam has said to Dean and we dont know has of yet what will happen. Dont try to paint a picture that hasnt happened. And Sam doesnt need to admit fault there are people like yourself all to willinhg to tell us how wrong and at fault he is. And for the record Sam has done nothing to Benny and Martin was responsible for Martin and if you want to play the blame game then you better throw Dean in there as he sent that stupid text.
ReplyDeleteDean only gave up hunting becuase he promised Sam he would. Dean kept his promise to Sam.
ReplyDeleteHe was going to say yes to Michael to SAVE HALF the planet.
No sorry Sam's promise is not going to be used to create a different set of rules. Sam did not make Dean stay with Lisa or create a life for himself with her and Ben . He still took a year out and innocents still suffered and were in peril. Dean saying yes to Michael would not of saved half the planet it would of caused a confrontation between Michael and Lucifer because both were looking for a fight. Once Michael had Dean he would not of been in control Michael would of sought Lucifer out regardless who Lucifer was Sam or Nick and that would of been it. And none of this has anything to do with this episode .
ReplyDeleteyeah what evaaaaa.....
ReplyDeleteI am with you on Sam not looking for Dean, but am holding out hope that there is a reason for that and we will find out later. The Sam we were shown at the start of the season is NOT the Sam we have had for 7 years. Sam always looked for Dean and the not helping Kevin should be for the same reason as not looking for Dean.
ReplyDeleteAt least when Dean took off his year, he was looking for a way to help Sam. And I can complain about the Sam we have this season without being called a hater. I love Sam and that is why I am complaining, this is NOT SAM.
ReplyDeleteWith any luck, we won't see a bunch of secret societies come out of the woodwork suddenly. OTOH, they only found out about these _through_ the one they found out about last week. Ordinarily one spontaneous combustion probably wouldn't have attracted their notice... So, if Sam is researching the records, chances are good they will learn about a lot of them. Circa 1958 anyway... which means a lot could have died out since then too...
ReplyDeleteSam made Dean promise to go and try to make a life with Lisa. It's as clear as day. And that is exactly what Dean did.
ReplyDeleteIn Dean's mind, when he was planning on saying yes to Michael, he believed he would be saving half the planet and his friends and family. He believed that was a better alternative that all humans dying. He was willing to take those odds. Whether or not Dean's thinking was correct is another matter. Dean's heart was in the right place.
This last episode...didn't really have anything to do with these season's mytharch. Let's just hope we see more the MoL's library than we saw use of the Campbell's library.
I don't want to perpetuate this Sam vs Dean debate on here, but Dean _did_ look for Sam. And if you take the novels as canon, he also hunted during that year. I still find it believable that Sam was so devastated at the beginning of the year and so alone that he didn't look for Dean - I don't think it is a slur on Sam in any way, but I'm very much in the minority there. You have no way of knowing if Dean could have controlled Michael or influenced him because that never happened. Let's just go with what did happen. BOTH brothers managed to stop the Apocalypse _together_.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe Dean stayed with Lisa just out of a promise then you are wrong. And it still doesnt change the fact he took a year out and he wasnt saving people .
ReplyDeleteI never said you were a hater in fact I dont recall mentioning your name. but like I said the Sam not looking for Dean was a writing mistake not a Sam mistake. My issue is with the whole way some are trying to define Sam's year as not caring about humanity and thus making him a uncaring selfish sod and Dean's year when he didnt either hunt or thought about humanity or their troubles and trying to say it was different because Sam made him . Sam asked Dean to promise what Dean did after that was down to him.
ReplyDeleteAnd none of it no matter how it is dressed up or spun changes the fact he did not hunt in that year.
Does this mean there legacy is being a nazi?
ReplyDeleteand by the way i am a fanatic of there and i loved the show
ReplyDeleteAmen. That season five finale was one of the best episodes of the show, in large part because it depended on BOTH brothers (and the metallicar!) having a key role to play. Sam could not have temporarily gained control over Lucifer if Dean had not shown up and pushed Lucifer to give Sam the needed motivation. All that would have made it better would have been if Kripke's plan for the show to run five seasons had been honoured and they'd both gone into the pit together. As I imagine it (and I'm sure I'm not alone), it would have been Dean, not Abel, who went into the pit with Sam/Lucifer.
ReplyDeleteDragging "Sam sucks" "No, DEAN sucks!" "NO, SAM sucks!!" into every discussion gets wearisome. How anyone can like the SHOW but have such a negative view of one or the other of the main characters is just beyond me. (In case you're wondering: neither suck; both have made huge mistakes, and both have accomplished hugely important things.)
What? The Men of Letters and the
ReplyDeleteWhen Dean was one on the outside - and unlike Sam, who did not protect Amelia form the evil he knew, even after what happened to Jess, he neither threw holy water on her husband reborn from the dead just to be sure, Dean spared no effort to protect Lisa and Ben, and when he heard a scream Dean did not think twice about going to look if there was anyone in danger - the apocalypse was over, there was no great evil still lurking humanity, at least was what Dean thought because Castiel no said nothing about the war in Heaven. Unlike with Sam when still have Leviathans around there and a prophet kidnapped by Crowley.
ReplyDeleteWait, so when Sam does not look for Dean it just becomes an error of the writers? When they have no way to blame Dean or any other for Sam's acts , Sam's choice becomes a mistake of the writers. That's the easy life of a Sam! Girl! Too bad it does not work when they just make Dean apologize and pointing his errors over and over to make Sam seems the only victim, isn't? I doubt you said, hey, "this is a mistake of the writers" too.
Sam has not said yet about the warning, as nor apologized or felt guilty for the Martin's death and what he did to Benny - just by jealous - but hey, if he didn't even hear Dean, how could he be concerned to know that his attitude has put an innocent woman in danger? Or apologize for letting Dean fainted, bleeding and trapped in a city under attack by a vampire, but he didn't apologize when he left Dean alone, without a car, with one leg in a cast when they were wanted by the Leviathans too. Hey, Sam has priorities.
Sam only will tell when something bad happens, or if Dean get suspicious and discover by own self, as always.
But you are right on one point, Dean is not a saint, he is far from it. But he assume his own mistakes, he is able to apologize, he carries his guilt and still accepts the guilt that Sam puts on him.
Yes, I don't like Sam and I will not - not want or have to - lie about this, but I have a million reasons for this. I can enumerate it.
While you need better arguments to get into a discussion than just playing the blame for Sam haven't even look for Dean and seems very upset by have his brother alive for half of a season upon the writers. Even I can explain with more depth Sam's reasons instead of defending him saying it's only hate. At least, learn to accept Sam's choices, respect the reasons of your favorite character and who knows you can grow faster than him. - what should not be difficult. -
When Dean take a year off the apocalypse was over, there was no great evil still lurking humanity, at least was what Dean thought because Castiel said nothing about the war in Heaven. Unlike with Sam when still have Leviathans around there and a prophet kidnapped by Crowley.
ReplyDelete"Dont try to paint a picture that hasnt happened." Your own words.
ReplyDeleteHow can you be so sure that Dean could not control Michael?
Carver deliberately demolished Sam's character solely for the purpose of promoting the brother-hate between Sam and Dean. There is no way to get round that.
ReplyDeleteX
The Sam at the end of season seven would have wanted to know what had happened to his brother as would any normal person seeing their sibling disappearing before their eyes. I know if my brother vanished like that, I would at least want to try to understand what had happened.
X
The only one who should be blamed for the slur on Sam's character is Carver. He wrote the episode.
I love everything Carver has done this season, and don't share your opinion, but I respect your right to have it. We will simply have to agree to disagree.
ReplyDeleteI so, so agree.
ReplyDeleteThey are in no way connected with the Nazis. Both brothers were very, very clear that they considered the Nazis "dicks" and worse.
ReplyDeleteThis epi was awesome, really enjoyed it :)
ReplyDeleteBen Edlund nerver lets me down.
I do believe that Dean stayed with Lisa out of a promise. I never once saw him say "I love you" to Lisa or say it to anyone else. No one ever even said that Dean loved Lisa on the show.
ReplyDeleteDean did say on the show that he read all kinds of books to try to find a way to get Sam back.
I don't read the novels, so I have no idea what they are about of if they go along with the show.
I do agree with you about Dean not saving people that year. That is one of the main reasons I didn't like that storyline. I just can't see Dean staying in one place doing nothing when he knows what evil lurks out there. Just seemed OCC to me, but then again he was grieving and trying to find a way to save Sam all while trying to keep a person to Sam, so I will give Dean a pass.
Dean's frist priority has always been Sam.
The whole plot of the first half of the season was apparently closed, as Singer said in his - detestable - interview. There's nothing besides Sam giving up on Dean. Just this, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, I dreamed of having a good explanation until the ninth episode. There's none.
"Carver deliberately demolished Sam's character solely for the purpose of promoting the brother-hate between Sam and Dean." Hmmm. Do you have some evidence of Carver's intent that you're not sharing with the rest of the class?
ReplyDeletewow, just wow. it's CANON that Dean stayed with Lisa/Ben to honor his promise to Sam. It was very clear that Dean wasn't happy with his situation either. He was mourning a brother (whom he did try to look for) he thought was lost to him (after he could find no way to save him).He was devastated knowing that his beloved little brother was trapped in Lucifer's cage enduring unimaginable torment.He didn't toss Sam to the curb to live an apple pie life with Lisa. He wasn't even in love with her. Up to right before Sam's sacrifice, Dean was in love with the IDEA of having a family (which included his brother). Sam knew Dean would end up getting himself killed trying to save him,even tho Sam told Dean he couldn't save him.So,he made Dean promise him that he would find Lisa and live a safe life knowing that Dean would do anything for him. Dean honored his brother's final promise. Even had Sam not come back, Dean probably would have eventually left Lisa. He wasnt happy and he didn't feel safe.
ReplyDeleteAs for not saving people for a year. He was in no condition mentally or physically,to do that. He was still mourning (and we all saw what happened last time Dean hunted while still mourning Sammy.) and blaming himself. Memories and reminders were painful for him. He even put the Impala away and covered her because she represented what he lost and couldn't save, Sammy.
Now, I don't know what Carver was thinking by not having Sam look for Dean. It's canon that both boys will always try to find each other. In my opinion,Carver made an epic blunder. I'm still hoping he rights that wrong by season's end, with a plausible explanation (like Sam did try and look for Dean,but had his memories of doing so wiped by Naomi).
Dean didn't love Lisa? What are you using as evidence for that assertion? Did he ever say he didn't? Or is this simply an assumption because there's no moment where we hear him say he does? I'd say that her appearing in his dream in ... whatever episode that going into dreams was called at least suggests he had strong feelings for her, as did his actions before the (almost) apocalypse, when he tried, specifically, to make sure SHE would be okay.
ReplyDeleteThe episode was great. I love the boys' new home base. Both were awed and excited with their new headquarters. It's nice to see the boys finally able to relax and just enjoy being brothers. Seeing how enthusiastic Sam was to learn about the MoL and use that knowledge to help them on hunts, and Dean being genuinely happy for his brother finding a niche for himself in the hunting life, was heartwarming. Dean was encouraging Sam to learn about the MoL. I'm pretty sure Sam told Dean what the last survivng MoL told him about the contents of the box (it looked to be offscreen,but that's the vibe I got).
ReplyDeleteI think there are some more big twists coming for the boys. I do think BOTH will stay hunters,but with Sam learning and sharing the MoL knowledge with Dean to help them on hunts.
The evidence is in the opening episode.
ReplyDeleteIf in the cabin when Dean asked Sam whether he had looked for him during that year, Sam had answered that he had tried his best to find him but had been unable to do so, the bad feeling between the brothers would never have existed.
X
Instead Carver wrote that Sam never even bothered to try and look for Dean, abandoning him to his destiny.
If I had been Dean I would have been hurt and displeased too.
X
Also Sam was written as if to give the impression that he was kind of annoyed to have Dean back and if you watch the episode he even gives a displeased huff when Dean's turning away.
I would say that the portrayal of Sam here doesn't make him very sympathetic and as Carver wrote the episode the decision to do that lies on him
.
Dont wow me no amount of promises would of made Dean stay where he didnt want to none . That would be a poor reflection on Dean esp where Ben was concerned if he was only doing it out of a promise and I am sorry but he was willing to stay with them after Sam came back. I dont doubt Dean was mourning but it doesnt change the fact that he didnt hunt and people were still being plagued by Supernatural beings. Did it occur to anybody that Sam might of reached his breaking point? No why because he didnt look for Dean and he isnt given the pov or the sympathetic storytelling to showcase how he feels. And yet some and Dean himself accuse him of letting innocents die because he didnt hunt . And there is something wrong with that picture because Dean is seen by you and others that he wasnt mentally or physically able to but Sam did it because he is just self asborbed or some other fault that is brought up . Never even thinking that just maybe being tortured by Lucifer , having his wall broken then driven to insanity by hallucinations and then seeing your brother disappear in front of just might might of been too much but again the writing lets Sam down again . I said Tens why I felt the way I did and nothing has changed that .
ReplyDeleteAll Carver had to do was have Sam say something like I looked every where for you and just found nothing. But instead he had him say, nothing when Dean asked if he had looked for him. A simple sentence was all that was needed and I don't even care he left Kevin with Crowley, but not looking for Dean..no. I am holding out hope that something is wrong with Sam, he had done many things so far that are just not like him. Even Dean has commented on it. As much as I love Sam the first part of the season, I have not liked him, something is just off about him.
ReplyDeleteBut you're interpreting Carver's intent--his SOLE intent--in doing that as promoting brother hate. That goes beyond what the content of the episode provides and into reading into the event quite alot, it seems to me.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Sam simply saying he didn't look and nothing more does not strike me as satisfactory, and I remain (very slightly) hopeful that there's more to it. However, also think that reading into that fact a specific, and single, intent on Carver's part is unsatisfactory. There have been many instances, not only this season, of the characters not adequately or properly talking through things, and in many instances that might well be to create or to continue dramatic tension at the expense of strict logic (I'd point to the last--so far--Benny episode as another instance).
ReplyDeleteOh and the so many times dean gave up on sam. please.
ReplyDeleteamen to that you said it better then I ever could.
ReplyDeletebut why give dean a pass for that and not sam it sucks. I read that book too that he tryed to get him back but thats just in the book not the show yes dean said he tryed but I like a litte more proof that he did just like sam tryed in season 4 we seen it and that it did not turn out right I thing if sam tryed again to get dean back it would have been season 4 all over again some way to go dark side again and he was scared to do that.
ReplyDeleteTHAT WAS A BOOK NOT THE SHOW! there a part that books are diffent from the show come on.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the meaning behind Eckhart's ring? There was different scenes in were the camera focused on his ring and was noticeable as soon as Eckhart stepped out the black car.
ReplyDeleteI said IF you take the books as canon, as some people do. All caps is not necessary.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering what the significance of the ring was myself - especially in light of it being the focus of so many shots. I couldn't come up with anything though...
ReplyDeleteThere was no need to lash out at me like that.The 'wow' was at the whole 'sam vs dean' fight going on. Dean DID go to Lisa for 2 reasons. The first, he was keeping his promise to his beloved brother. Had Sam made dean promise to go with Bobby, he would've. He was keeping his promise. Go watch the end of Swan Song again.As Chuck is giving his final dialogue, he flat out says that while all Dean wanted to do was find a way to save Sam,even if it killed him, he wasn't going to do that because HE MADE SAM A PROMISE.That promise was to go to Lisa and try to live a safe life. The 2nd reason he stayed was because he was jaded by the hunter's life. The brothers had achieved their destiny, they overcame the baddest baddies and prevented the apocolypse. It resulted in Sam's loss. Dean did try to find a way to save Sam but was unsuccessful. To Dean, that was just another in his many self perceived failures. The hunter's life and the boys' destiny had claimed the person closest to Dean's heart, his brother. He was in mourning,jaded and lost.
ReplyDeleteHis life with Lisa hadn't hurt him or taken away those he loved.It was a place where he could just exist and have a chance at a little happiness to temper the pain he still felt. Like I said in my previous post (where I said NOTHING negative about Sam), I don't know what Carver was doing. I flat out said that it was an epic blunder. Did I blame Sam at all? No, I did not. I said it was CANON that the boys would ALWAYS look for each other.
He loved Lisa (and Ben) but he was more 'in love' with the idea of having a family.
ReplyDeleteWould Dean call a redo on anything he’s done? Any of the deals he’s made?
Ackles: No. He would’ve made all the deals. He wouldn’t have tried to live a life of normalcy with Ben and Lisa though. I think he’d wish to take that back, in hindsight knowing he was never really out of the game and that attempt was never really going to go through.
To those saying that I was making excuses for Dean and being crucial of Sam (which for the record, I never said a negative thing about), If you want to set the record straight in real time, look me up on twitter under the above name. I'll be more than happy to do just that. : )
ReplyDeleteHow does stopping the apocalypse stop all the demons, ghosts and monsters running around?
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't. But the show has never suggested that any hunter is under some sort of inescapable obligation to hunt literally to the end of his days. Most assume they'll die on the job--and probably most do--but the idea that a hunter CAN retire--and, maybe, sometimes SHOULD retire--is built into the show. I doubt Dean or Sam ever will retire, but I certainly wold not judge them for a second for doing so.
ReplyDeleteCarver may have not said the words, but in this interview he gives his basic premise.
ReplyDeletehttp://collider.com/jeremy-carver-supernatural-season-8-interview/
His primary goal was just to see what would happen if *paraphrased* just to see what would happen if someone finally took the advice they kept giving each other... which in 8x01 was basically if someone is gone, leave them gone.
However, after he says that he talks about how he really likes playing with perception and how Dean is piling on Sam, but then the tables will flip later in the season.
So, Carver is talking about all of that dreadful tension that the brothers were going through in the beginning because Sam didn't look for Dean and dropped out of hunting and later because Dean is BFFs with a Vampire. Carver sounds like he is loving the tension, or as isle-of-sky said, brother-hate.
That may not have been what everybody was feeling, but that is sure what I was feeling. Up until the recent episodes, the show felt as if the brothers didn't even like each other. Heck, it felt like they couldn't stand each other which was making me hate the show. I don't mind tension, but there better be some love underneath. My guess is that Carver wouldn't label it as brother hate, but to me it sounded like he was just playing with a new dynamic. Let's see what would happen if generic character B did X.... Unfortunately, generic character B bears no resemblance at all to the character that I have known for 7 years. It is one thing to put the brothers in a new situation... it is a totally different thing to make them act out of character for no reason at all except... "let's see what would happen if".
To top it off, they make Sam do something totally out of character, then pend next to zero time giving an explanation for it. If you are going to have a character act Out of Character, the least you can do is give a better explanation than... "I ran". The dog scene had no references to when it happened, what was he doing before then... Was he contemplating suicide, what?!? What could have possibly made Sam settle down, get a job, and hook up with that girl? It is the same thing for him after he got out of Hell... We really know nothing except his body didn't spend much time there. Well was he under a day, a week, a year? We will never know. We know the exact date Dean came back because they made sure we saw every moment. But for Sam, a sentence or two and references from other characters later.... and we're done.
I totally agree. He could have had anything happen, but he wanted the "angst". I posted an interview he did up above that gives a brief answer and Carver did it just to see where everything would go And of course we saw where that went Dean was so hurt and mad. Sam felt guilty, but somehow reverted back to Season 1 Sam and was browsing colleges. What campus is Sam going to go to after making national news not too long ago? Here he is working as a handyman at a dive hotel because he has to stay under the radar, but he is going to go to college because "hey, maybe I can be a lawyer some day" Bull crap! What good is a degree going to do him when he can't have a job that would use it? He can study all he wants and participate in online forums, getting a degree is just idiotic at this point in his life. He knew that in Season 4, 5, 6, and 7... but suddenly after Dean "disappears" he thinks, "Ah now I have time to complete my degree". Check that off the ToDo list!
ReplyDeleteI agree that it was his sole intent, but it seems that he said it was his goal in that interview I posted above. He started with the theory, Let's see what would happen if he didn't look. Then, they (Carver and the interviewer) talk about Dean piling on Sam for not looking. Then, Carver explains that Dean is going to get kicked around a bit too, and he is referring to the Benny situation. Carver's intent was to create tension between the brothers, but as we all saw it wasn't just "What is going on?" tension. Hate may be a strong word, but that is what I was feeling. Of course, if I say I "hate" my sister, I don't mean that I want her to die.... But, when tensions get to that level, that is when the brothers separate... and I seem to recall that happening. That didn't happen because things were comfy cozy.
ReplyDeleteWhen did that happen exactly?
ReplyDeleteWell what can I say to your charming offer at the end of your post not what I would like to so this will have to suffice. It is simple you have your view thats it no more now ,you can view somebodys else's opinion how you wish. To be honest I have with some of the things you have said however I will say what I feel cant help it if you dont like it then feel free to go on your merry way to another post. And my views will not change .
ReplyDeleteFirstly I did not say that Sam didn't call Amelia, I said he didn't call the emergency, he did not think it could be a human problem since Amelia didn't know who he really was and didn't seem that some supernatural approached enough while Sam lived his dream. Technology has made us lazy, we do not need to remember things like phone numbers, but I know the number by heart from my husband for any emergency. Sam did not know hers, nor attempt in despair he dials it?
ReplyDeleteThe dream that Sam is just so described because it was so good that Sam could not believe it, I think it was very well shown in "Hunteri Heroici." I really do not know what is missing in the show so interesting about the domestic life of Sam. He fled, hit a dog and found a woman like him and was happy until her husband back, then fled again. The guy on outside could be Don. I don't know where you read this information, maybe I missed something, but I have not seen any information saying that would be revealed what happened in the Sam's "purgatory". Carver and Singer were emphatic in saying that the story of Sam was human this time. Why the fandom can't let Sam grow up, take his own decisions and acept his faults? What is so hard in this? Everything that exists until now is an attempt of some fans to bring the "have something wrong with Sammy" and pushes it into the plot so that Dean's purgatory is totally forgotten and he will resigned to his role as caregiver.
You say Dean is better after purgatory. It's better he be just a soldier with a mission than a man depressive alcoholic, a suicide who only hears "stop complaining" from everyone. If Dean continues suicidal - like it seems in the promo of the next chapter - and still drinking a lot, if he can only smile of truth when Cas is around, is he better? If Dean does not complain and internalizes everything that he feels like Sam say it at him at threaten to leave him in "Southern Comfort", means that Dean is better?
I have my doubts.
Death had said that the leviathans were so dangerous, cunning and poisonous, that God made purgatory to ban them and when they took the body of Cas, they clearly said they would go after Dean. They even hid in the hut Rufus, as a wounded man alone could protect himself of these things?
Charlie accusing Dean was deliberately written so that anyone who just watches Supernatural read the end of the Sam's relationship like Dean's fault. It's been done other times and never repaired and they won't fix this time also because they don't have the intention of doing so.
Ok, in the middle of an argument you bring Amy and wants to make me believe you did it with good intentions? That you aren't using this to say between the lines, "remember what Dean did?". I'm sorry, but I'm not so naive to believe that, diversity, especially when you use it again bringing Castiel, saying "Castiel was" killed "by all Leviathans trapped in his body a nd blamed Dean Castiel messing with things he could not control on his death, not the Leviathans "and you clearly is blaming Dean. Yes, all that Cas did, as what Sam did was all Dean's fault and he must forgive and forgive and never feel betrayed, after all, that's what Dean's done.
-Just to clarify if anyone else reading this, I love Cas and I know he loves Dean too. I know that they both made mistakes but I also know they both redeemed and who would do anything for each other and that's what counts for me. -
When you say something that something is "unnecessary" you're saying is not important, it is to me, and you're undoing my point of view as well as accuses me of doing with yours. I will not change your mind, as you will not change mine, but please don't play the victim.
"You can respond to my opinion even disagree but dont ever make the mistake of thinking you have the right to tell me' I should grow faster' . You simply have your view it is no more valid than mine I will not justify my view to you on any level . I am not interested in your view of Sam or your EDG attitude but I will say what I feel if you dont like it then feel free to go on your mewrry way to another post."
ReplyDeleteI don't know why you've changed, but I preferred your comment as it was in my email. It was angrier and less poor thing.
So I'll respond to it, if you get into a discussion of viewpoints - willingly own - you have to have more than as final point accuse me of being just a hater. If you are not interested in my point of view just not losing your time argue with me, it's easy. You can say what you want, as I can, I do not care.
They did until today apparently.
ReplyDeleteYeah I do agree with you, season one was really dark in lighting but Croatoan in season 2 really struck what the show should feel like
ReplyDelete