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Supernatural - Episode 8.09 - Citizen Fang - CHCH Promo

29 Nov 2012

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48 comments:

  1. Jessica29 November 2012 at 17:14

    come on Dean, Sam is your brother not Benny! you paid your debt to him...move on.

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  2. tvmonkey29 November 2012 at 17:52

    I want Dean to be wrong so bad, I think he deserves a good smack down because frankly Saint Dean makes me want to vomit

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  3. Miss Supernatural29 November 2012 at 21:07

    I can't watch the promo right now. Why are people mad at Dean here? What did he do/say? Please?

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  4. Katarzyna Skop29 November 2012 at 21:13

    On the one hand, I agree. On the other, I love Benny to pieces and I want him to stick around forever.

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  5. Dahne30 November 2012 at 01:19

    Dean doesn't say anything in this promo except that if Sam tries to get Benny he will be killed. Dean goes to confront Benny instead. People are hating on Dean here because they want Dean to have the same storyline and consequences as DemonBlood Sam with Ruby and LeviCas with Crowley. Even though we have already suffered through that story two times now! It's all about righting some perceived wrong to "make things even". Basically they want Dean to be a bad guy so the fandom can smack him around the way they think the fandom did with their favorite characters.

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  6. Dahne30 November 2012 at 01:27

    The fandom wanting to go through a story line we've already suffered through 2 times just so they can knock down one character in hopes that people will like their favorite character better frankly makes me want to vomit. I am so sick of rehashing old story lines and characters never learning anything from them. It was bad enough going through it with Sam. Going through it again with Cas was way, way over the top. I know that you do not like Dean and that you think Sam does not get enough credit/attention/fan love, but going through another round of this lame plot is not going to make people like Sam better. It's more likely to make people less fond of Supernatural as a whole. The whole thing had a been there done that feel in season 6/7. To go back to it again would make me think the writers really have run out of ideas. Despite what some writers and some fans think, we do not need to have the same story done by every character merely to make things "fair". Next thing you know, Sam will end up in Purgatory too just to make things even.

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  7. Dahne30 November 2012 at 01:30

    Right now Benny is a shining light in mediocre season for me. I like that he comes and goes and for me never overstays his welcome. I don't need to ever hear about his long-lost love life again but I am good with him coming when they need an extra hunter or in the periodic episode. Mostly though I do not want this to become another Amy situation. 1.5 times around the block with that one was more than enough.

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  8. Miss Supernatural30 November 2012 at 01:36

    Thank you, Dahane!

    From spoiler, I believe It'll be a hard episode, but I'm praying it won't be that bad regarding the brothers relationship.

    I personally don't want Benny to turn into a traitor. I'm not a fan of his, but like you said, it was done so many times that, if it happens, I don't see anyone saying it was a great twist or that didn't see it coming. The majority is even expecting this, even if it happens later. I mean, the hole point of the episode 4.09 was to make the audience "like" and "trust" Ruby and later it was revealed to be a traitor. Ok, some were expecting it to happen, too, lol... But it was somewhat "new". If it happens again, I'll only say sarcastically "how original, I never saw that coming". I really don't see the point of this happening again now besides the ones you pointed out.

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  9. C P30 November 2012 at 03:21

    Yep, People who think that way make me sigh. I didn't like Sam or Cas taking that turn, I don't need that happening to Dean too. Also it's a tired plot.


    I don't get the whole "only fair" argument. Why does one bad thing/mistake that happens to a character, has to happen to the other characters too?


    I understand Sam fans in particular being frustrated, I've been frustrated myself with certain things in his story and in other characters stories, but just because Sam and Dean are the main characters does not mean they have to have the same experiences or to be more exact, both have to pay for trusting a monster. Especially since demons and vampires are quite different. Vampires are a more "gray" species, and Sam has trusted vampires before (Lenore's crew).

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  10. C P30 November 2012 at 03:31

    I feel the same.

    Best thing for the show is new stuff, not rehashing to make things fair. I've never heard of a show doing that to characters- where when someone makes a mistake the other person has to do it too.

    The balance should not come from common mistakes, but from story involvement and new obstacles.

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  11. C P30 November 2012 at 03:33

    I'm neutral with Benny. I want him to be good just for the sake of not rehashing old plot, and he is fun to have around (much much more than Garth and Kevin's mother) but I don't miss him when he's gone either.

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  12. Kerinda Hartson30 November 2012 at 03:37

    you know what I am really getting sick of is benny kill him allready give dean a tast of his own med ok I am sick that it ok for dean to have this monster vampire as his friend live and sam's friend who had a kid she was trying to keep alive to have a life die. I am done with this show if they do that it really makes me sad to say that but I am pissed off now and hope they can work this story out that is fair to the fans because right now its not.

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  13. C P30 November 2012 at 03:43

    The fact that most everyone expects Benny to go bad, makes his chances to do so less likely. The writers like to keep an element of surprise.


    Ex. All those years we worried about Bobby at the finales of each season, and the writers kill him off permanently during a mid-season finale when many least expected it could happen. (I personally thought it would never happen after all those years he survived [I joked that he was immortal before Season 7 happened] and because Cas had recently died- killing off two major re-occuring characters within a half-season when there were barely any left shocked me).

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  14. sharonally30 November 2012 at 07:42

    I have never expected bad Benny one because it has been done before and 2 because they wont go there with Dean anyway , they go to a certain point with him but never has far .The one aspect I havent liked is him being used to have Dean tell us that Sam has been less than stellar as a brother it is something I cant pretend has endeared me to Benny . I get the whole they shared something in Purgatory but the dumping on Sam wasnt in good taste .
    But that is a writing issue for me .

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  15. shouichi30 November 2012 at 11:37

    This vamp buddy, hasn't kill anyone, and he won't (at least now). So why do we have to kill innocent people? if he were a bastard monster, I'm pretty sure Dean will kill him

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  16. hlnkid30 November 2012 at 12:25

    I have very little negative to say about S8. I am loving it so far. Not perfect, but what season is? Esp after having been on the air for so long. I always enjoy the CHCH eps, and no exception here. And I suspect they'll be a cliffie of some type with this mid season finale to drive us crazy until 2013.

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  17. fazziemodo30 November 2012 at 19:33

    And the whole 'Sammy is getting pooped on or ignored so lets rain on Dean and any other character around to make him look better' talk while disregarding the fact guilty or not Sam's actions over Benny make Sam look like a big fat hypocrite having a tantrum because he didn't get to pick the monster to let go on simply their word this time makes me want to puke.

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  18. lsbloom30 November 2012 at 19:53

    I'm kinda tired of the season of St. Dean. I think it would be something new to make him consider his "I'm always right" morality or at least address its wishy washy nature.
    IMO, right now, people feel like Dean is acting like a hypocrite and no matter how "done" the story is, one almost always likes to see hypocrites find some humility. But that's just my take, and I usually get pretty annoyed with moral POV characters on shows, so SPN isn't an exception there.

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  19. lsbloom30 November 2012 at 19:57

    Dean doesn't have hard and fast rules about killing. The boys kill all the time, they killed this week. Cas killed a whole bunch. Benny probably killed before he went to purgatory. It only matters if Dean feels like justifying it or not.

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  20. Miss Supernatural30 November 2012 at 21:51

    Well, I think Sam is being pretty hypocrite regarding Benny, too.

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  21. sharonally30 November 2012 at 22:08

    Well at least he is being upfront he has told Dean and not going behind his back and killing Benny and ignoring Dean's relationship with him .

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  22. Miss Supernatural30 November 2012 at 22:12

    Yeah, I guess it's a blessing that he's at last waiting for Benny to start killing people before doing something (and telling Dean about it). I think that's the breaking point: the "monster killing people", not being a monster itself.

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  23. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 01:22

    Could you clarify?


    So far what I've seen is that he was surprised the Dean was friends with a vampire, and annoyed at how Dean has changed his stance on monsters when it concerns his friends rather than Sam's friends. I will say Sam is usually on the side of giving people/monsters a break, but his actions tend to vary depending on what Dean allows; however, he hasn't been much for arguing with Dean this season, just pouting in silence, so he did just assume Dean would want to kill werewolf chicky, but he wasn't on the side of tracking her down or Benny down, which felt consistent to me. Did I miss something?

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  24. Miss Supernatural1 December 2012 at 01:41

    Sam is always emphatic with monsters and gives the benefit of the doubt even when they killed before but are repentant.
    With Benny, though, he didn't even try. I get Sam being suspicious, all of us are, but there was an animosity from the start. Things will probably change and Benny might kill, but so far Sam has nothing to be so angry at Benny about. He trusted monsters that didn't kill before and Dean agreed with him. Why Benny is different so far to him?

    I don't think Dean changed that much concerning monsters. I don't agree with him being friends with one and even say that he's a better brother (that made me angry), but Dean not killing monsters who don't kill people isn't new. At all. Even when fans mention the people-killing-monster Amy, they usually forget that Dean didn't kill her son who wasn't killing people (yet) either.

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  25. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 01:58

    I feel like you are reading more animosity towards Benny than I've seen. I think Sam was surprised when they met on the docks...as Dean had been hunting vampires--very cagily--and all of a sudden he is introducing him to one. Sam had to identify whether or not he was a threat and try to figure out what was going on and deal with Dean running off to play with vampires and calling it "personal." But I don't think Sam is that anti-Benny so much as he is mad at Dean and concerned about what Dean isn't telling him. Benny is a pawn of a much larger brother fight--from my perspective.

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  26. chris6841 December 2012 at 02:02

    "Sam always has empathy toward monsters"

    Sam hunts and kills monsters without hestitation week in and week out, same as Dean. On the rare occasions that monsters have been able to prove a past commitment to nonviolence and that they won't be a threat to humans, then Sam has been more likely than Dean to listen to them.

    Benny hasn't proven anything to Sam yet. Sam barely knows him. But I think Sam's angry reaction is directed more toward Dean than Benny.

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  27. Miss Supernatural1 December 2012 at 02:03

    I liked your perspective. I'll try to see things from this point of view from now on. :)

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  28. Miss Supernatural1 December 2012 at 02:13

    That's what I'm saying. Sam could give Benny a change by known him, but it looked to me that he didn't want to try and see why Dean trusts him so much when he was the one to introduce this "gray" area to Dean seasons ago.

    But like I said above, I'll try to see things like Isbloom exposed. He/She (sorry, I don't know) might be right.

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  29. chris6841 December 2012 at 03:11

    There's also the possibility that Sam had a role in Dean getting out of purgatory that he's not admitting, and that he has reasons to be suspicious of Benny - beyond the fact that Benny is a monster.

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  30. SuePo1 December 2012 at 03:13

    I'll give you an "up" arrow for that response. :)

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  31. Dahne1 December 2012 at 03:16

    The only people who think/call Dean a saint are those people trying to take down the character so the fandom will like another character better. Dean has never been a saint. He never will be. This is as much a fan-created, flame war starting, way to dis a character as people who say Sam is always selfish. We know Sam isn't always selfish. We know Dean isn't always right. The idea that we have to destroy one character to uplift another character is ludicrous and the hallmark of childish writing. The idea that people want one character to be destroyed at the expense of the PLOT just because they are unhappy with how another character is being developed makes no sense to me. Better to want the writers to finally get a clue about the character whose story needs better development. Neither brother is wrong so far about Benny. I hope it stays that way.

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  32. SuePo1 December 2012 at 03:20

    You go, girl. :)

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  33. SuePo1 December 2012 at 03:22

    Fair to the fans? Exactly what does that mean?

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  34. Dahne1 December 2012 at 03:24

    Amy had just gotten done killing humans. There is little doubt that if Amy's kid had gotten sick she would kill again. Benny has not to Dean's knowledge killed anyone after leaving Purgatory. He has no reason to kill Benny. I still maintain that Amy didn't become a monster when she killed for her kid. She became a monster when she got pregnant. She allowed another monster into the world knowing that it could very well choose to kill humans. By increasing the monster population, she violated her right at exemption. After all, if Lenore had been turning people into vampires, the Winchesters would have killed her without a second thought.

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  35. Dahne1 December 2012 at 03:35

    It is pretty clear that the Winchesters believe the supernatural has crossed a line as soon as they kill humans. Well except for Cas of course since he killed all those people while hopped up on Leviathans. The only exception is if the supernatural being has voluntarily chosen not to kill humans for an extended time. Then they get a pass but only until they prove unworthy by killing humans again.


    Lenore killed people until she chose to stop. They let her go. Cas killed her later when she said the cravings were too much. Benny killed people and then stopped when Andrea came into his life. If Benny is killing people again, I expect Sam to kill him for Dean just like Dean killed Amy ( who had just murdered 3 people) so Sam wouldn't have to. They are brothers and they take turns doing the horrid jobs for each other. The only way though I can see this current story NOT being a rehash is if Martin goes after Benny and Benny kills him in self-defense. Then there will be gray area. However, if Sam kills Benny because Benny is killing people, it's about as straightforward Winchester m.o. as you can get.

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  36. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 03:58

    I don't want to take one character down in order to make anyone else look better. I want one character to develop past his "my way or the highway" sense of morality and get some perspective on how and why he makes the choices he does. And plot wise, this is a prime example of him changing his stance and a little self-reflection isn't bad for the plot.


    Additionally, I personally believe that when one character is presented as the moral authority on a show and they indicate an inconsistency in their stance, then people tend to want them taken down a notch. An example for me would be Peter on White Collar. I am sick of him having different rules and inconsistency in how far they can go for cases and for not cases, and constantly asking for trust and giving nothing in return. I enjoyed Neal taking him down at the FBI conference. It could have gone further and lasted longer in my opinion. It wasn't an issue of Neal vs Peter: it was Peter being more aware.


    And when I say "saint" I'm referring to lines in the show this season like the discussion with Cas that started with Cas telling Dean that other people make their own decisions and end with Dean being a martyr to trying to "save everyone." Dean brings up long dead (and some out of left field) attacks on Sam and no one says Dean is wrong on the show, so for the show they were all valid complaints and we only get one POV--Dean's. And that smacks of the show presenting Dean as without fault and everyone else letting him down/not meeting his standards.


    I-personally-think this presentation is only created to develop a contrived dramatic conflict both in the show and in the fandom and that that isn't good writing. And while I get the impression that you don't think that Carver et al have taken the path of knocking Sam down and simultaneously building Dean up, I do think that a number of fans feel that way. I didn't start out thinking that, but I'm starting to wonder if Carver has some issues with Sam that he feels necessary to get out in the open, because reopening 3-season or even 7-season dead arguments is pretty lazy writing to me, unless you have an agenda or want to rewrite the show in a different image. But maybe he has a different agenda that we haven't seen, but after several WTF episodes, I'm personally running out of alternative theories and I'm desperately short on patience.

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  37. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 04:02

    Haha. I'm a she. But if I'm wrong, please don't be mad!

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  38. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 04:12

    When I said people I meant humans.

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  39. Dahne1 December 2012 at 04:28

    Granted I've only watched it twice, but who did the brothers kill this week? I only recall the older hunter making the evil doctor kill himself.


    Dean and Sam are not in the habit of killing people. They occasionally do when they have to. I don't count when they kill people who are possessed by demons by the way. It's the demons they are trying to kill, not the people. Unfortunately the one comes with the other.

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  40. Dahne1 December 2012 at 04:31

    I firmly believe that they wanted Jewell Straite on the show and that's when schedules worked out for both parties. In all honesty I expected her to be in the episode more than she was. More like Felicia Day in the Charlie episode instead of having the majority of screen time go to the younger version of her character.

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  41. lsbloom1 December 2012 at 05:37

    It was more of a totally condoning without a shred of concern or remorse at killing a powerless human. Dean tried to shoot an unarmed man in a bank vault, it just happened to come out as a gag. Then he tried to drop an anvil on him. He wasn't supernatural, he was just using a mystical force for his own pretty petty ends. Obviously the courts couldn't handle a petty thief ripping off old people.


    I do count people possessed by demons. Just cause the boys are trying to kill the demons doesn't make the people any less dead. Kevin Tran certainly cared when Dean tried to kill his mom. In general, I-personally- don't mind collateral damage on supernatural shows, but in the "killer" debate, the boys have quite the body count. The boys aren't really in the "saving" people game so much as the "preventing future damage" game. They show up after the fact, which is why most of the monsters they encounter are bad, that's how the boys found them in the first place and that's why killing or letting some people die is justifiable in the big picture (sure you're dead but the demon inside you won't kill anybody else after we gank you) and why "repentant" monsters can sometimes get a pass. If they were interested in just stopping monsters, they would set traps and act proactively, they don't, they act retroactively--so justice I guess. But it does change the morality rules. And it is why monster friends are problematic, and ultimately depends on how close to the inner circle they are before whatever rationale they have becomes acceptable and how hard they are to kill and various plot-related devices. Cas killed a whole bunch of people and devastated heaven and when they found him again there was no guarantee that he wouldn't do something similar again (particularly with Meg manipulating him). But they like Cas and he is hard to kill and he has become integral to the show. Therefore, Cas gets a redemption arc. Amy was a guest star, Sam's first kiss, a pretty likable girl, she had a great excuse for her actions and a promise of nothing further, and her sticking around would probably have kept little monster on the straight and narrow instead of seeking revenge and growing up on his own hating people. But not close to Dean, super easy to kill, and the plot was (apparently) better served with her dead. Blond Ruby and Blond Meg, reasonably difficult to kill, helpful to the inner circle valuable for plot, not dead, etc etc. But almost all of these choices were made by Dean.

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  42. V_s1 December 2012 at 05:58

    The problem with going back to Adam now is that he's been in the cage for somewhere between 3 and 5 years now (depending on how the year-long gaps between seasons work). Sam was in the cage for a little over a year, and it caused him such torture that they couldn't pull him out of the cage without the help of Death providing a temporary fix. There's really no good way to get around that with Adam, especially since his torture has so far potentially been up to 5x worse and is still growing.


    The writers could take the cheap way out and just say that Michael somehow managed to protect Adam from the effects of the cage, but they've cheapened so many of the lore elements in the past 2-3 seasons that I'm afraid for them to cheapen this one as well.

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  43. Miss Supernatural1 December 2012 at 11:49

    Haha, thank you for telling me. :) I don't think I'll be mad, don't worry.



    All I want is the brothers to be ok with each other again asap. I'm tired of them fighting and at odds.

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  44. Miss Supernatural1 December 2012 at 11:50

    My God, you have no idea how much I would love this.

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  45. SuePo1 December 2012 at 15:02

    Ha! I got a 'down' arrow for giving you an 'up' arrow. :)) This is fun.

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  46. Dahne1 December 2012 at 16:08

    Hence the reason why i think people use it as a shortcut for "I don't agree" instead of anything personal. People down arrow the weirdest stuff on this site. I never take it personally anymore.

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  47. Donna C4 December 2012 at 02:50

    I think they're ALL hypocrites. Except Garth. Cause he's awesome.

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  48. Donna C4 December 2012 at 02:55

    Humans can very well choose to kill humans, too. So does that violate the right of exemption of every child bearing woman who becomes pregnant? On the chance they bring another Hitler into the world?

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