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Supernatural - Episode 8.03 - Heartache – Sneak Peek

11 Oct 2012

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56 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl11 October 2012 at 19:36

    LOL at Sam tricking Dean into going to a farmer's market.

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  2. Elena Wonderland11 October 2012 at 19:59

    Poor Sammy :'(

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  3. tvmonkey11 October 2012 at 20:00

    I wonder how many people dies while Dean wasn't doing what they do while he took a year off to play happy families with Lisa and Ben. I wonder if he actually feels better about himself every time he plays the hypocrite? Hypocacy and guilt tripping Sam into hunts isnt exactly going to encourage him to want to stick around, I can see why he might decide that after the case he wants to quit hunting. I wonder if actually helping the people on the case will be the reason he doesn't walk away?


    The writers are definitely going somewhere with the way Dean is being. He keeps having a go at Sam so that when Sam finds out about Dean lying and trusting a vampire Sam will get the chance to give back the same to Dean. It seems a bit obvious and a bit silly to me. I hate this forced conflict crap between the brothers, neither of them come out smelling of roses.

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  4. ScottA11 October 2012 at 20:04

    Do yoga, play the lute, whatever.

    Or are innocent people supposed to die so you can shop for produce.

    Wonderful. Just what I think about in the produce section.

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  5. Chelsea_blue8711 October 2012 at 20:20

    Oh my gosh, how cute is Sam in this scene?

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  6. Lissie_Bee11 October 2012 at 20:42

    You do have a point about Dean giving up on the hunt for a year with Lisa and Ben, but that situation was a little different, I think. Dean was honoring Sam's dying wish. But I do think you're right in the sense that holding Kevin over Sam's head isn't going to make him want to stick around. There's nothing he can say to excuse it that he hasn't already said, so Dean needs to let it go.

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  7. Bruce_F11 October 2012 at 21:24

    I'm liking this "I'm so over hunting" version of Sam.

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  8. Chelsea_blue8711 October 2012 at 21:33

    Dude chill out

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  9. chris68411 October 2012 at 21:40

    When i was watching the show last night, something about the intensity of Dean's expressions while he was torturing the monster reminded me of John. The video reminded me of young Sam in TGND, "Dean, don't put dad on the phone! .... Yes Dad, I know people are dying ... "

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  10. Jess Connor11 October 2012 at 22:30

    You called it - forced conflict. Like you, I am so over it.

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  11. Jess Connor11 October 2012 at 22:35

    They are recycling plots, not the actual scripts so Dean and Sam's situations are always going to be slightly different. Two episodes in and I've had enough of hypocritical Dean & OOC Sam.


    TPTB said to wait and see what happens because the tables will turn, but I do not want to see Dean being bashed later on any more than I want to see Sam bashed now (not that I am insinuating that you are bashing Sam).

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  12. fazziemodo11 October 2012 at 22:37

    No neither one is coming up smelling of roses out of this are they. Because has Sam told Dean anything about the girl yet?

    As for Dean's catty comment about Sam avoiding was a knee jerk response to Sam's snarky comment about taking time to enjoy the good things during his year off. And if Dean is continually bringing it up I think it is as much about Sam quitting as it becoming code for Dean being hurt about Sam not looking for him while he was enjoying the good things.

    As for the conflict i don't think we are going to get to the heart of what is going on with Dean's PTSD until Sam finds out about Benny and has a go at Dean though I'm wondering when it happens will a little of Sam's anger be that Benny calls Dean brother and Dean actually accepts that. I don't think that will sit with Sam too well and i hope they don't just sweep it all under the rug straight after.

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  13. Miss Supernatural11 October 2012 at 23:14

    OMG, I totally agree, especially with your last sentence. Do they really think that two wrongs make one right as long that everyone get their "lick"?

    I hate this. :(

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  14. Miss Supernatural11 October 2012 at 23:18

    Are you forgetting that Sam also lectured Samuel Colt about quitting hunting?

    Seriously, the writers are hurting their characterizations so much that I can't blame neither Dean or Sam for what's being said, especially this season. I'm with you about the forced conflict between the brothers. I hate it.

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  15. Miss Supernatural11 October 2012 at 23:21

    Because the show is (or was) about Sam and Dean hunting the evil together?

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  16. tvmonkey11 October 2012 at 23:34

    I believe Jared said Sam would call Dean out on why Dean thinks its ok to trust a vampire after all the crap Dean has given Sam about trusting monsters in the past. I dont think the whole 'brother' thing will bother Sam as much as the hypocrisy of the situation and not to mention I dont see Sam trusting Benny as easily as Dean. I can see Sam being completely weary of him and his influence on Dean.


    Dean knows there was a girl he just doesnt know anything beyond that yet and as far as Sam is concerned he has left that all behind do why would he need to tell Dean anything unless Dean asks or Sam changes his mind?


    I;m sure Dean enjoyed a few things when he was living normal too. IMO its good to see Sam appreciating the simpler things in life, he hasnt had much joy in his life for a long time now.

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  17. Chelsea_blue8711 October 2012 at 23:59

    Well that's a given. We all know he's going back to hunting eventually no question of that. But I don't like the idea that Sam is getting crap for not doing something he doesn't want to.

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  18. Miss Supernatural12 October 2012 at 00:01

    "Sam quitting as it becoming code for Dean being hurt about Sam not looking for him"

    That's how I'm seeing this, too.

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  19. Bruce_F12 October 2012 at 00:07

    Sam stopped hunting and realized he could have a good life by leaving the profession. Something like that is bound to change someone's point of view about a lot of things. It's not poor characterization, it's character evolution.

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  20. fazziemodo12 October 2012 at 00:08

    I thought it was Jensen that said Sam would have a hard time understanding Dean trusting Benny. Though think he also said that the reason Dean trusts Benny is because they went through so much together and it is a relationship that Dean isn't exactly comfortable with even though he trust Benny.

    As for the brother thing, I think on some level it might bother Sam that Dean can be open and close with a monster after Benny is topside while being very strained with him. If it doesn't give Sam jip on some level then he isn't human even if he gets some of it on a rational. Just like Dean wouldn't be human if it didn't hurt Sam saying that he was enjoying good things when he was in a horrible place he hadn't consciously chosen to go (unlike the time he went to hell or Sam was in the cage) and he knows that Sam had effectively given up on him.

    As for Dean's hypocrisy, I don't know it is as much the hypocrisy as not opening up that will get to Sam - Dean hasn't told him even though Sam iin many ways is being patient about what has happened and the little Dean did say left out a huge thing. But if it plays out as Sam just going on about 'why is it alright for you to do it' then for all the people that say Dean should let Sam's year off go then he should cut Dean some slack due to the situation he started working with Benny. (plus it would make Sam sound really whiny).

    And haven't they had the conversation about Dean working with monsters before - remember when Crowley first turned up and Sam went on about remembering Ruby.

    However I'm not saying that Sam shouldn't be wary about Benny's influence on Dean.

    As for the girl - the whole 'Any questions' line from the first episode was a defensive and raw response to Dean's crude comment. So if Dean wanted to ask i don't think he would considering all the other issues that are happening. But with that being the case Sam not being exactly open about Amelia yet as I don't think to him it is a closed book, he is at least still hurting from it. But that doesn't change that he isn't exactly being an open book about it with Dean.

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  21. Miss Supernatural12 October 2012 at 00:09

    Apparently it changed everything he used to be.

    Agree to disagree, I guess.

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  22. Bruce_F12 October 2012 at 00:22

    "Apparently it changed everything he used to be and used to feel."

    I think that's at least a bit of an overstatement. Sam seems to now feel that he doesn't owe his life to hunting and I can't say that I blame him. That opinion doesn't change who he is.

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  23. Miss Supernatural12 October 2012 at 00:30

    I don't think it's an overstatement. The way it's being portrayed by the writers, it goes way deeper than just that for me.

    It's not just Sam. It's everything on the show. A lot of things changed, the heart seems to be changed, it's just... Not the same. Its just my opinion and I know more than never that a lot of people feel differently. Good for them, I guess. Like I said, agree to disagree.

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  24. hlnkid12 October 2012 at 00:32

    Dean can't shake his monster-hunting high and Sam can't come down from the year w/out hunting. I love the contrast. The boys have always been opposites in so many things and now we really get to see what each is after a year doing what they alway wanted...Dean as the prime hunter and Sam as the normal lifer. Love it!
    And that was one big bite Sam took outta that apple! Yikes!

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  25. C P12 October 2012 at 00:37

    That's my thoughts too.

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  26. ravenclawwit12 October 2012 at 01:56

    LOL I kinda like it when they bicker. I mean come on, it's nothing to get too upset about because when it comes down to it these guys love each other. They just went in opposite directions for a bit and now they have to readjust.


    Yeah Dean is being a bit of a hypocrite, but I think that has to do with whatever happened in purgatory. Like I said before, Dean's never more high and mighty than when he feels guilty about something. On the other hand, I do get why he'd be a bit miffed at Sam's sudden lack of any interest in hunting.

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  27. ravenclawwit12 October 2012 at 02:03

    Me too. I don't think people are really seeing what happened here. Sam was completely alone. He had nobody, no family, no friends. So he stopped hunting, and *gasp* the world kept going. And a year is longer than people think. It's long enough to change your whole outlook on the life you've been living. Meanwhile Dean was in purgatory hunting pretty much non stop for a year. It was all boiled down to hunting and nothing but for a year. It's basically like for the last year Sam and Dean have been literally running in opposite directions. Eventually I think the world will readjust itself again and they'll be roughly on the same page again, but until then, I kind of like the change.

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  28. Lissie_Bee12 October 2012 at 02:12

    I'm with you 100% on that. I don't want to see either brother bashed. I don't want to start a war here, but I think it's a common thing on these sites to side with one brother or the other. I'm not one of those people. I hope that season 8 isn't going to keep flip flopping, presenting Dean or Sam as being "in the wrong." I hate it when they fight.

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  29. lsbloom12 October 2012 at 02:40

    My problem is it happened in an instant. He walked out after Dean disappeared? Just bam!? That's not evolution, to me, that's an instant radical reversion to a 7-year-previous character state. And he's not standing by it. He needed to be standing up for Kevin and Tiger Mom in this episode and he barely spoke. It's feeling more like a convenience to me than a distinct change in character. Maybe it will change if Sam ever gets any screen time in the next few episodes. IDK I don't mind Sam not wanting to keep hunting or over a year finding something new, but they needed to develop it and stick to it. It's so jumpy right now it feels out of place even if it isn't entirely out of character. IMO :)

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  30. chris68412 October 2012 at 02:48

    I think most people would be okay accepting of an explanation that Sam, after an exhaustive search for Kevin and Dean and getting nowhere, stopped hunting, got a dog, etc., but kept his eyes open for clues and kept his phones nearby in case any new leads came in. What I, and I think a lot of other people, are having a hard time with is the character of Sam, who since the end of season 4 when he let Lucifer out of his cage, has been primarily defined by a mission of redemption and a strong sense of personal responsibility - so strong that he chose to jump into Lucifer's cage to make right what he had messed up - is now shrugging his shoulders as he explains how he didn't look for Dean, never picked up his phone to check his messages, and figured it all just wasn't his responsibility.


    Dean also came back radically different, but we have a plausible reason why Dean changed. He was in a war zone, and most people can understand that. The writers could possibly bring Sam from point A (where he was in season 7) to point B (where he was in 8.1), but there are an awful lot of dots they need to connect before we get there. And what we've heard so far - that Amelia made a bigger impact on Sam than his guilt over letting Lucifer out of his cage, or that Sam, who has always had an independent, loner streak, fell apart when he was left alone - isn't working.

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  31. prpleight12 October 2012 at 04:27

    yup. I'm gonna want to spend a while wanting to smack Dean upside the head. Granted, Sam probably should have put a referral number on his cell rather than tossing them out but seriously. Not to mention the fact that...Dean...how much hunting were you doing when you were living with Lisa and Ben and Sam was in hell.


    I hope they don't spend too much time spinning their wheels banging on this story point for too long...no more than 2 more eps (including this one) please! Gel them back up, get them back in sync and stop the whining. Both of them are coming across to me, in this scene as whining...and I'm not sure my patience will handle it well. :-)

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  32. prpleight12 October 2012 at 04:28

    I think you're probably right.

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  33. ScottA12 October 2012 at 04:41

    I am chilled out. I thought those lines were funny. I also fight fruit flies in the produce section.

    I need to put a humor disclaimer at the end of my posts as it is difficult to see sarcasm in a typed post. Sorry.

    I really don't care what either of them do as long as it flows with the story line.

    Now it would be REALLY funny if that doggy doc would end up pregnant.

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  34. ScottA12 October 2012 at 04:48

    I thought Sam cleaned up the Leviathan first, before retiring.

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  35. ZoeF12 October 2012 at 06:25

    I'm happy for this one, because it looks like the brothers will get the chance to interact in ways they couldn't in the first 2. Too much going on and exposition before. This is old fashioned brotyher stuff, and it's sorely needed.

    Very excited to see what Jensen did in directing this one too!

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  36. ZoeF12 October 2012 at 06:28

    This is very well put, and the heart of the problem. Sam always suffers from the writers telling rather than showing, and this one will need to be a doozy to overcome.

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  37. fazziemodo12 October 2012 at 14:16

    Have we actually seen Sam say the words 'I'm sorry' about thinking Dean was Dean?

    I know we have had the explanation why (which I don't think is the whole story as Sam hasn't mentioned he was messed up) but has he actually said Sorry.

    If not Sam can be an insensitive clot sometimes even though you can see him worried about Dean because until he voices he's sorry about not looking but he's not sorry about not hunting I don't think Dean will fully untangle the two in his head.

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  38. chris68412 October 2012 at 14:41

    You're making it sound like Sam led a somewhat sheltered life with friends and family around up to the point where he suddenly lost everyone. He didn't. He's been dealing with family loss and tragedy since his mother died, and the Winchesters have always been been somewhat isolated from friends because they could never be honest with them about what they do. Last time he had Ruby, Bobby, and Ellen, although there's no indication he took much comfort in Bobby and Ellen. This time he had Crowley, Jody, and Garth. Unlike last time, Dean didn't die, he just disappeared. And Sam's reaction upon seeing him seems to confirm that Sam didn't think Dean was dead.


    I'm one of the people who thinks we were given enough clues in the first two episodes to indicate that what we're being told isn't true, so that gives me some hope. But I think people still upset are reacting to the scenario that you're arguing for - that the show might go the route that Sam stopped hunting and looking for everyone just because he was alone.


    I think people are also pretty tired of watching Dean's journey every step of the way while having to wait until a good part of the season is over before finding out what is wrong with Sam. And then when we find out what's wrong, the storytelling isn't very satisfactory. We learned more about Dean's experience in Purgatory in 8.1 (we got images of his setting, met other character he interacted with, saw his state of mind, and learned how he feels about the experience now) than we learned of Sam's Hell in all of seasons 6 and 7. The story - what happened to Sam in Lucifer's cage - was postponed in the first half of season 6 by the explanation that RoboSam wasn't talking and the real Sam wasn't out yet. It was postponed in the second half by the Wall. And then we were led to believe Sam's Hell would finally be explored in season 7, but it wasn't. We had some hallucinations of Lucifer being bratty (not memories, which are real), and again we went through the entire season without hearing Sam's version of events or any kind of personal reflection on these events. To say a lot of Sam fans don't trust the writers is an understatement.

    EDITED: One more point :
    "I don't think Sam's realization that he is not as indispensable to the world's problems as he might have once thought is that sudden. He stated last season that he no longer felt the crushing guilt he'd once felt over his part in the apocalypse, because he figured he'd more than payed his penance in Hell. It's not that far from that to him coming to the conclusion that he doesn't owe the world anything, and that there were other hunters in the world who could deal with stuff."

    I don't have an issue with Sam deciding not to build his life around saving strangers, but Kevin and Dean were different. He had a personal connection to them, so Kevin was his responsibility and Dean was his brother. It wasn't that long ago that Sam "let in" Lucifer, whatever that means, because he was worried about Dean and considered Dean's safety more important than his own mental health. The tone of Sam in this clip and in the past couple of episodes just feels off. It's fine for a different character, but it's too reminiscent of season 4 demon-blood Sam, Meg-possessed Sam, or RoboSam. It would be fine if someone else was saying what Sam is saying, but the Sam in this clip isn't the same Sam we left in season 7 - and an emotional shock and falling in love doesn't feel like enough of an explanation for the transformation.

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  39. sharonally12 October 2012 at 14:42

    Exactly you have expressed it so well. I can't get a grasp on what they are doing with Sam at the moment. Next weeks episode will clearly have flashbacks but how many and what they determine is unknown?. I like Dean but the writers seem wrapped up in his Purgatory in a way they never were with Sam's Lucifer/cage post sl.

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  40. Miss Supernatural12 October 2012 at 14:50

    I don't think Sam apologized for not looking, no. But I think it's because we're supposed to think that Dean is the one in the wrong because of that *non-canon, fake* promise of not looking for each other that Jeremy and the other writers are pushing so much. Dean shouldn't have expected Sam to look because they 'promised' not to.

    In my opinion Sam's character right now is suffering because of the showrunners lack of consistency and knowledge of the show's canon. But it seems to be OK in Jeremy's mind because later in the season (it's already started, actually) it'll be Dean's turn to be 'licked' by Sam (and the fans).

    God, I hate what they're doing... :(

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  41. Charlene Buchanan12 October 2012 at 15:16

    you know what yeh dean is harsh but ...Sam never looked for dean so duh !he's gonna be hurt and yeh slamming sam aint the way to tell sam he's hurt but dean puts up walls and doesn't say anything he's always done that....Hope they become at least friends again

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  42. fazziemodo12 October 2012 at 15:31

    If they aren't making clear that Sam sees not looking for Dean and not hunting as two separate things as a way to make us think that Dean is in the wrong to keep bringing it up because of the promise then that is unfair. Dean may be screwed up but Sam is not and he knows the two are completely separate things. Also the promise being the reason not for looking (which I know isn't all of it) it kind of shifts some of Sam's decisions on to Dean which again is unfair to Sam. The man is an adult, he made a choice and he should be able to deal with the ramifications of it, which would include a pissed off Dean.

    Though I don't think it helps that we don't know how much Sam has opened up right now. For all we know Dean thinks Sam put his feet up for 12 months and got a girlfriend (which with the return of Smart Sam and the bits I've seen where they say Amelia is supposedly fragile and a misfit not to mention Sam skipping out in the middle of the night show it isn't the case). But we don't know that they've talked about it and until we do I think that Dean should be allowed to be annoyed (even if he is whiny about it.)

    As for the showrunners not being consistent with Sam, I'm not too sure as I'm getting use to being drip fed what is going on with Sam then getting a dump half way through the season. It is annoying but I'm getting use to it. Though this time when we find out and then have the supposed turn around it if they aren't careful it will come off as Sam being a little too righteous in getting in his turn to be pissed as well as showing that Dean was justified in keeping everything from him.

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  43. ravenclawwit12 October 2012 at 16:05

    I don't see how he had Crowley. Crowley isn't his friend, he doesn't even pretend to be Sam's friend like Ruby did. Anytime they meet, Crowley is just as likely to kill Sam as not. Garth is barely an acquaintance. I think the only one you could make an argument for is Jody, and again, I don't think he considers her family like he clearly did with Bobby, Cas, or Dean.


    No Sam wasn't sheltered and he might be "used to" loss, except it really doesn't work like that. Losing people continually, isn't just a bunch of singular discrete events, like you lose one person, deal with your feelings about that, put them in a box and then get busy dealing with the next loss. Yes he's lost a lot, but in the space of a year, he lost his father figure, and then his brother and a good friend (one of the only friends he had left) all in one day. That amount of stress in a relatively short period of time may have been the straw that broke the Camel's back, psychologically speaking. I mean if we're going to make the argument that people can just get used to trauma and then further trauma affects them less, I guess Purgatory should have had a very minimal effect on Dean. After all, he's been to hell. After that Purgatory should have been a cake walk.


    And I think he did believe Dean was dead. When he saw Dean he actually said, "You're alive" with incredulity and surprise. I don't know how much clearer that could be really.

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  44. chris68412 October 2012 at 16:59

    What would have been clearer in convincing me that Sam thought Dean was dead was if his first reaction when he saw Dean was shock, rather than a get-off-me type response to Dean's tests, and not saying "I know it's you" like he'd had advance warning that Dean was back. It would also have helped if he had told Dean that he didn't look for him because he thought he was dead, rather than looking away guiltily when Dean asked him the question. He also said they had agreed to not look for each other, not to not bring each other back from the dead.


    We can keep going back and forth on the issue of how people respond to loss, but there's nothing realistic about the reactions on this TV show. Sam is a person who grew in motels with an absentee father and a big brother who fed him funions, fighting monsters since he was a child, never being able to get close to anyone because of their family secret. He put himself through college but his girlfriend was murdered by a demon, and he eventually found out that demons had always been manipulating him to be Lucifer's vessel. His actions led to Lucifer walking the earth, and Sam sacrificing himself, sending himself to Hell to be tortured for the next 180 years by Lucifer. His father and brother were both, at different times, dragged off to Hell by demons. At this point Sam's character should either be a hardened warrior with a dulled emotional response, or a basketcase. Since a hardened warrior works better for a TV show, and since the basketcase ship sailed last year when he got back all of his hell memories and responded by taking up running, then we should be seeing a hardened warrior, not a kid who crumbles when his big brother disappears for the upteenth time, because he suddenly finds himself alone.


    I'm not disputing that this would be another trauma for Sam, but I am disputing what the writers are trying to sell as his reaction to it - that he doesn't look for Dean or Kevin. If there is one event that has shaped Sam's character more than anything else, it was his realization that his choices led to Lucifer escaping his cage and the guilt and remorse that followed. To To bring Sam back to a season 1 characterization, and hear him saying that he ditched his phones, is wiping away away that major character development and it's just not ringing true to me.

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  45. mrkwoodmaid12 October 2012 at 19:02

    I am in agreement with Dean but I can't blame Sam

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  46. Bruce_F12 October 2012 at 21:28

    That's my beef with it as well. I don't object to his point of view but I have issues with how quickly he came to it. No one switches gears at the drop of a hat that way.

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  47. SuePo13 October 2012 at 05:59

    No. You're fine. Apparently humor is subjective and some don't want to see it. :) i thought it was funny, too.

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  48. Jess Connor13 October 2012 at 15:01

    Wow - well stated!! I agree with everything you said. I wish the show runners and writers understood the characters as well.

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  49. keithfan13 October 2012 at 15:22

    Always nice to see the boys together and also to see Sam eating. That's a rarity for sure! Looks like a great episode come Wednesday night and I am definitely looking forward to it!

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  50. Lubbeelou13 October 2012 at 17:07

    Aha farmer's market, organic.

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  51. nellymendezcolon13 October 2012 at 17:13

    ..in this clip we saw the rift between the brothers and the way try to figure out find a neutral zone in find in how to enjoy the things that each others like to do and continue hunting things

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  52. Thirty14 October 2012 at 08:29

    I don't see it as throwing characterization out the window.

    The writers are using a contrast. One brother who actually could stop vs. the brother who had to spend a year hunting in a place full of monsters.

    The logical question is: Did the second brother become a monster while fighting them?

    If that is the case, what should the first brother do about that?

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  53. Thirty14 October 2012 at 08:35

    It's also worth pointing out that Sam's reaction is a perfectly logical one.

    In what world would a guy who has seemingly lost everyone in his life to hunting find a reason to want to keep doing it?

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  54. sharonally14 October 2012 at 09:07

    There would not be a lot Sam could do about it if that was the case with Dean?. And it isnt like the writers would give Dean a hand rub and a Cas instant fix to solve the problem.
    And Sam at the moment is wanting out of hunting as it is so my guess is it will be a case of Dean re-adjusting to life and hunting and learning to curb the Purgatory mindset.

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  55. Dahne14 October 2012 at 14:55

    Add me to the agree comment. I'm tired of the writers forcing brother conflict on us. It's old. It's boring. It adds nothing new. New-found brother maturity to me would be stopping all the infighting and agreeing that they are two different people with two different viewpoints but that neither has to be "wrong" and neither has to be bashed. I can see this nonsensical writing snafu becoming as tiring as the Amy subplot disaster last year did and just as quickly.

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  56. Mia49417 October 2012 at 06:17

    I just don't get how it's any different than Dean dropping hunting for a year to be with Lisa and Ben...?

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