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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Heartache?

18 Oct 2012

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81 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl18 October 2012 at 03:00

    It was good!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Elena Wonderland18 October 2012 at 03:01

    All I can say is...poor puppy Sam :'( The look on his face when he got the birthday surprise....................:'(

    ReplyDelete
  3. BoxManLocke18 October 2012 at 03:01

    And here's another completely forgettable episode from these two writers. Thankfully it's exactly what I expected so I'm not really disappointed.
    This episode lacked suspense, drama, rythm and humor.
    The MOTW's backstory was interesting I guess. Other than that, I won't remember what this épisode was about in three weeks.

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  4. SmallvilleSupernaturalCastle18 October 2012 at 03:03

    sorry to say jensen but i was freaking bored of this episode. The idea was good but this was one of the most boring cases in an episode. I was hardly watching everything for the 2nd time in the series (first was the wedding episode last year terrible). This episode wasnt "terrible" but it wasnt its normal goodness that keeps me hooked. I liked the one amelia flashback and also sam's kinda annoying me with his talk about before and stuff seriously lol. Dean even though he's become darker, killer type person i find more interesting. I give this a D (poor) not awful but jensen's last two episodes were so much better. Maybe next year man lol. Jeremy great first two episodes but not 3rd im giving ya a break tho since its early on.

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  5. Elena Wonderland18 October 2012 at 03:06

    I agree.It was good directing(yay Jensen) but man!!I was so bored!!The only moments that I actually paid full attention were when the boys killed that monster stripper and Sam's flashback.

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  6. Elena Wonderland18 October 2012 at 03:07

    Imagine this...At the end of SPN,Dean becomes an immortal warrior-hunter and Sam opts for a normal apple-pie life with Amelia.The shoe fits if you think about it...

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  7. ZoeF18 October 2012 at 03:07

    I was very impressed by Jensen's directing. He is very good at telling a story silently through his choices. It made the story much better than it was on paper. And you can see his love of the brother's story, by how he shot them together.
    I thought the script was meh. I loved the end, but most of it seemed like a cop proceedural, not SPN, which makes sense with these writers.
    I was very disappointed that Sam's flashback was so short. Carver & Singer really pimped that out as explaining Sam's POV, so I was hoping for at least 2 flashbacks in each episode, like the first 2.

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  8. C P18 October 2012 at 03:10

    I voted great. Usually I put awesome, but it was just meh this episode. Not memorable besides a couple scenes like Sam's flashback and the fight with the lady who had the heart. Not that I expected the writing to be much.


    Jensen did great directing, but writing really affects my pov of an episode.

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  9. ZoeF18 October 2012 at 03:16

    I should say that flashback was gorgeous. The colors and light and it was so poignant, and made me really feel for Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 03:17

    Far from being the best but I still loved it :) Loved the boys being smart, putting everything together like they used to do without too big help from an outsider who do the whole job for them. 3rd episode in a row that Sam can use a computer for the first time since....years? :P


    I love this season :)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Jess Connor18 October 2012 at 03:18

    It's really overkill with those Sam flashbacks!

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  12. Charlene Buchanan18 October 2012 at 03:21

    ok not great but intreasting and i found even though i thought it was 8/10 it was so much better than s7 any of they eposide for that matter ...cause sam and dean are using there heads again and the effects looked better

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  13. KatAdams0318 October 2012 at 03:21

    The episode was alright. Thank god, it wasn't another "Slice Girls" or "Route 666." It wasn't that rememberable and I was sadden by how little there was of Sam's flashbacks. I was expecting for the episode to be more like "After School Special," or "What's up Tiger Mommy?" I feel like they are hiding Sam's year too much. I really wish they had just started the season off with the brother apart and fighting to get back to each other. I think it would of had much more action and the audience could get invested more.


    I don't understand how come Sam is on a normal life kick. Dean's story flows, but Sam's story is a mess. I'm think Sam's flashbacks are suppose to be more like a dream, but Sam's character is so muted this season. He's completely disconnected. And I don't understand why Sam's life at Stanford doesn't count as a normal life. If they want to regress Sam back to his season one self, then they at least need to acknowledge he had a past. And it just keeps driving the brothers apart. I think it's going to back fire, because the show is about the brothers fighting together and Sam's the one saying no. That doesn't prove a lot of sympathy for the character and I'm tired of Sam being the bad brother. I really wish they would reveal something of Sam's past year like they have with Dean, but I think they are going to end up editing most of that out, because they are going to realize how much it isn't working which is ironic because it isn't working because they haven't shown the set up.


    I really think they made a big mistake setting the season up this way. And I'm not sure if they are going to be able to fix it. After the first episode, I didn't like it, but I felt like there were a lot doors being open for each character. After the second episode, I felt like Dean had a good story. This episode doesn't prove me any hope for Sam's story. Maybe that will change. It's too early to tell. But I'm not feeling it.


    As for the episode, I thought it was alright. It's not one of the best episodes, but it is certainly not the worst. Jensen's dad was cool, but I only noticed him, because he is Jensen's dad. The episode was mostly research, which was nice to see the brothers doing their own research. I'm sadden by Sam's lack of words. I wish he had opened up to Dean. Something isn't right. I hope Dean is right and that is just how Sam feels right now. I really want to have the brothers back on the same page and Sam to get back into the game.

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  14. BoxManLocke18 October 2012 at 03:22

    Haha, I agree with you there.
    I can understand the writers being afraid of putting to much Sam flashbacks since you know, some people find them boring, but in 3 eps we've had like 2 minutes of flashbacks.
    Ans WTF was up with the music in that last flashback ? It was just dreadful.

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  15. rehabber18 October 2012 at 03:24

    I liked this ep, thought Jensen did a good job with the directing. Many funny lines, which I loved. Trying to figure out where this is going for Sam, he seems determined to quit and felt so sorry for him with the birthday cake. Had good action and my only disappointment was not having Benny or Cas, but "Benny" was in Arrow so that helped. lol

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  16. KatAdams0318 October 2012 at 03:25

    I know! I understand what is going on with Sam so much better now! :/ Seriously, that's what they are calling flashbacks? Are they just going out of their way to make Sam's flashback as boring, cheesy, and flat-out awful? They aren't even trying to put any spice in the relationship or story. Now is the time to set it up. If they want us to support Sam and his decision for a normal life, then they need to give us something to root for. And Amelia and the dog aren't it, yet.

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  17. chris68418 October 2012 at 03:27

    When we got the press release saying who the writers were, I predicted that Dean would be shirtless in Purgatory having sex with monsters, the guest would be the smartest person in the room, Sam would be expositing the plot, and there would be a mythology or continuity error. I was wrong on the guest (there was no notable guest) and about Sam expositing. Dean wasn't shirtless, but he was put in a very sexually suggestive position with a monster. And there was a continuity error - Sam saying he had never had a normal life before. Wrong. He had normal for several years at Stanford.


    Now that I've seen Sam in this "always craving normal" story, I'm certain that this is just wrong. I can buy that Sam found something special in the year that may have changed his outlook, but we haven't seen him pining for normal for the past six seasons - we saw him move on after Jessica - and I don't believe that he never found any sense of satisfaction from hunting and saving people. He made it sound in this episode like he never found any purpose in hunting.


    Overall I found the episode dull. You could also tell that this was shot out of order because both Jensen and Jared seemed to be playing Dean and Sam like last season's Dean and Sam rather than the way they've been playing them this season.

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  18. ZoeF18 October 2012 at 03:28

    I loved the scene between Dean and Jensen's father. It was short but you can see they had fun with it!

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  19. Misty Pebworth18 October 2012 at 03:31

    Lackluster episode. Mostly dull, but it had a couple of interesting moments. Only a couple. What bothers me most is the mortality compass of our two beloved brothers. Think about this a second. Dean apparently has NO problem with the old woman who married the serial killing man and stuck with him. The man whose been killing 2 people at least, every year, for 900 or so years. The man whose organs turned 7 people into murderers (since one did the best he could and dug his eye out). And when the old woman casually says, 'You must think I'm a monster' for ignoring her husband's murdering ways, and Dean says NO, you just married a monster'. as though its okay.

    Its okay, sweet old lady. Your eternal, undying love for a serial killer who murdered people for 900 years so he could continue his football career is perfectly justified, and now that the boys have all too easily dealt with the problem, you can live a nice, peaceful, guilt-free life.

    Seriously.. does this bother no one else??? Its like season 7 all over again, where Dean gets all selfrighteous and kills amy, and an episode or so later lets two witches go (and even gives them marrage advice!) and everything's hunky doory.

    Love you Ackles, but this was a poor episode. It wouldn't be that bad if the morality issues behind it weren't SO off the wall, bat shiza crazy. SPN's never been strong, morally, but this was a little /too/ far.

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  20. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 03:36

    ;P Yeah for Ty being in Arrow, I didn't read the synopsis for the episode so I was really surprise and happy when he showed up

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  21. C P18 October 2012 at 03:38

    Me too. I was like "Hey, that's Ty!" He acted last year on Once Upon A Time now on Arrow and returned to SPN. Getting more common to see him. Until last year I hadn't seen him on any show since he acted as Eli back in Season 2.

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  22. Charlene Buchanan18 October 2012 at 03:39

    or bugs hahah

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  23. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 03:42

    I don't think it's so out of character to see Sam wanting a normal life. Almost anyone had things they loved/wanted when they were young and went back to it later. Sam is like a tired warrior, he gave everything he had, and beyond, for so many years. When he said that he didn't want normal anymore in Season 2 or 4, he didn't exactly know he was going to start and fight the appocalypse and go to hell. He never had a chance to slow down and take a breath in years, everytime they took a big monster down, 2 sec later another huge problem appeared


    After loosing everyone he loves, including Bobby last year, and what we could heard Bobby said in the bloopers (but it was cut), there's always going to be someone else to save the world.


    But I'm with you that I don't get why Sam doesn't count Stanford as normal^^;

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  24. sharonally18 October 2012 at 03:44

    It seems they are trying to rewrite Sam to fit in to this year's set up' I thought last years fixing of Sam was horrible but it seems Cas drained Sam's personality out of him not just his hallucinations. I dont know its like they have no idea who Sam is and even some of his history? maybe I am being unfair but Sam's story is pathetic to put it bluntly and again portraying Sam in the wrong light.

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  25. SPNFAN_SHK18 October 2012 at 03:44

    Awesome..Jensen did a great job.. liked the Motw... but the last 5 min and Sam's ''You dont need me'' bit not so much..

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  26. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 03:44

    I thought you watch Heartland :P Ty was in there too once , last year I think, the son of the old guy who didn't want to quit

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  27. C P18 October 2012 at 03:45

    Yeah I was like he did have a normal life before when he went to college! They made it seem like he forgot Jess. :(


    And it's true about the normal thing. There were seasons where he'd accepted his life, and to say he always wanted normal I don't believe has been always true.

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  28. chris68418 October 2012 at 03:47

    If this was being presented as Sam moving forward - that he discovered something new and wants to change directions now - that would be fine, but this episode made is sound like Sam never moved past young Sam's need to be "normal" and all of the character growth we've seen the past six years has been an act.

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  29. chris68418 October 2012 at 03:49

    We had Benny, Ruby, and I think Lindsay (Free to Be You and Me) in Arrow.

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  30. chris68418 October 2012 at 03:52

    This episode was shot first, before Comic Con, so I'm hoping they reconsidered their approach after the Comic Con feedback. We can dream anyway.

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  31. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 03:53

    I'll need to rewatch it^^; cause except for the ''never had this before'', I didn,t get the impression that he never passed 'young Sam', I had the impression he's just having a hard time getting into hunting after his last year off and that he's tired of fighting. Maybe it's all about people's perception about the episode

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  32. ScottA18 October 2012 at 04:12

    I thought the fat guy in the red looked like Rush Limbaugh.

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  33. nellymendezcolon18 October 2012 at 04:15

    ..if the episode continue that try to repair the damage cause for the separation the writers fail this feels like a push job they acting so cold ,dean try to connect when tell sam about the app translator try to find a common ground to became more close to his brother and sam is so distance he really feels dont care about helping people is so selfish and immature for me was ok episode

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  34. nellymendezcolon18 October 2012 at 04:17

    ..i completely agree and that last dialog ,the response was so funny and jensen face...priceless

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  35. C P18 October 2012 at 04:24

    Shoot! Now I remember! Of course.


    And the guy who plays Oliver acted as Nick on Heartland. And Graham who acts as Ty (character) on Heartland was the boy in 1x02 Wendigo Sam and Dean helped his sister save.

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  36. C P18 October 2012 at 04:29

    Sam said something like he always wanted normal. That's what people are talking about.

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  37. Lissie_Bee18 October 2012 at 04:35

    I've got to wonder how far they're going to take this undercurrent of animosity and frustration between Sam and Dean. I know that Dean was hardened and damaged by purgatory, and that Sam finally got to enjoy some semblance of a normal life that he'd always dreamed of during that time, even if I thought he'd let go of that dream in the last few seasons... but the two of them have been through too much together to let things like this drive a wedge through their relationship. And the writers have to know by now that it frustrates the fans to no end haha..


    All in all, it wasn't a fantastic episode... but I thought that it was directed well if nothing else. It just really felt like filler. I know that every single episode isn't going to relate to the myth arc, but I thought that the flashbacks to purgatory and Sam's "normal" year have been so well done I found myself missing them tonight.

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  38. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 04:42

    ^^; One of the reason why I was a bit sad when they announced Stephen was going to be the lead in Arrow, he was in a interesting place with the main characters in his last episodes and I wanted more from him

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  39. C P18 October 2012 at 04:48

    Mmmm yeah. But I love, love, love him as Oliver.

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  40. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 04:52

    I just saw the last scene again and you,re talking about Sam said something about not being a warrior anymore and ''maybe never was''??

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  41. percysowner18 October 2012 at 05:18

    Well apparently Jess was a truly sucky girlfriend because in the 3-4 years he knew her, she never made him a birthday cake. Makes you wonder why he has loved her for so long.

    Really, I'm done with Sam the bad brother who cares for nothing but himself. If that's what they want, pay Jared out of his contract and let this become the Dean show. Or at least don't pretend that we are "going to see both boys year apart" because obviously we are going to see 28 seconds of Sam's year and 4 episodes of Dean's. I can live with that, but I resent being lied to.

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  42. MarissaAO18 October 2012 at 05:22

    I thought the monster-of-the-week was pretty run-of-the-mill. And sexist in a number of ways.


    But then the flashback happened, and my heart was breaking for Sam. The way he was panicking because he couldn't find Amelia. The first thing he thinks is that he's lost someone else he cares about. And then he goes from panic to this idylic scene, and it's a kind of happiness he's never had before and never thought he could have. But now it's gone, and he wants it back. And I just love Sam so much right now.


    So far, the flashbacks have been my favourite part of every episode, and they are making the season for me.

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  43. MarissaAO18 October 2012 at 05:25

    I was waiting for that flashback for the entire episode, and I am sorry that we haven't seen more yet. But I do think that just having one at the end of the episode gave it more emotional impact. We'll see more later. And they did pack a lot of significance into that one scene.

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  44. C P18 October 2012 at 05:42

    No it was something else he said. In less my mind fabricated something. lol

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  45. magnutude18 October 2012 at 06:43

    Decent ep, but certainly not one of the strongest, and that was mainly due to the story/writing, but I definitely got a kick out of Jensen's father being the ep being directed by his son... lol

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  46. BoxManLocke18 October 2012 at 06:46

    Because he didn't have anything tying him to the "normal world" anymore. He does now.
    I think Amelia's influence on Sam's current behavior is huge and it could be shown a little bit more.
    Before he met Amelia, Sam was miserable, but she made him want to live again.
    I'm not really sure their relationship is over. Maybe Sam just said that because he wants to keep her as far away from the world of hunting as possible.

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  47. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 06:58

    well we've been told Benny will come between the brothers so I guess thats how far the writers want to drive the wedge, I think it would be harder to do that if they were getting along and there was no animosity between them?

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  48. isleofskye18 October 2012 at 07:26

    Oh, dear!
    I have certainly never hidden my negativity for this season from the moment I heard the first spoiler about Sam not looking for Dean, which for me was a terrible idea for the start of the new season; and there has been nothing I have read or seen since that has altered that perception in any way.
    But apart from all that, the question ask myself is this.
    X
    What is all this brother animosity and coldness supposed to lead to?
    What's the reason for it?
    There must be an end game otherwise it has no sense whatsoever!
    X
    I can't believe this set of creative writers just sat there thinking over their options and decided that making the brothers be at odds with one another was a great innovative plot-line!
    X
    Then I read that Amelia gets a birthday cake for Sam and he is so happy because he's never had one before. Really!
    Are we expected to believe that the very-in -love-Jess we saw in the Pilot had never got a birthday cake for Sam, or that Dean didn't.
    I can't imagine that the Dean we saw in "AVSC", in "Something Wicked" or in "After School Special" would have let his little brother's birthday go by without getting him a cake of some kind, even if it was just a piece of pie with a candle stuck in it!
    X
    Either there's something more to it all, like Sam is a ghoul or a shapeshifter or something, for what we are getting here is not Sam Winchester but some alien from outer space.
    X
    Even Dean is not completely believable.
    We already got this hard-nosed bad-ass Dean in the first season where he saw everything in black and white but then in Bloodlust he startd to embrace Sam's philosophy about there being grey areas too and even although he continued to do the job there was an underlying tenderness beneath his harder exterior, but now it seems he has regressed to a cold-blooded killer.

    I get that he had to fight for his life in Purgatory, but Dean has been figting to stay alive since he was a kid so even if it was more intense in Purgatory, it's not as if he hadn't done all that before.
    So I don't understand what the point of it all is and I wish one of the writers would try to clarify things a little bit, for if they have decided that Sam and Dean from here on are going to act like two FBI partners who work together but have no emotional attachment, that's fine, but at least let those who hoped to see the brothers back in the loving caring relationship they once had know about it!

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  49. sharonally18 October 2012 at 07:55

    Perception is a dangerous thing which tends to backfire on Sam big time. Age should not be used as a excuse he is 30 not 80 . If you are going to bring Sam full circle with this normal idea then it has to make sense. And you have to trace it back to the earlier seasons .Sam has had normal he had a life with Jessica , he was after all thinking of marrying her so she wasnt just some brief fling he had .

    Sam hasnt looked at normal for a long time and he isnt normal his history doesnt go away because Dean ended up in Purgatory , there has to be a cohesive story for Sam.

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  50. Lissie_Bee18 October 2012 at 08:26

    Yeah, I suppose you're right... it'd just be nice to see them getting along for once! Sure, I love their good-natured bickering - that's true of most siblings. I just hate when the writers give them a constant undercurrent of uncomfortable tension. I also think it gives the fandom an excuse to "take sides" and wage war against one brother or the other, which always makes me sad.

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  51. prpleight18 October 2012 at 10:35

    How long was did it take them to film that shot with Jared carrying the apple….it was fresh then browning then fresh again. :-) (maybe I shouldn't have watched the sneak peek?)


    This was a straight up MOW ep...but something about it didn't zing. I think, for me, the biggest problem was the fact that 80% of finding the monster required investigation. Searching the house, because it was active worked for me (and had a couple of great lines.) But that research scene was really long and kind of dry, for me. Did like the final fight sequence.


    I have been a die hard fan since day one of this series. I have loved episodes, I even hated one or two episodes. I have been annoyed with the characters...but never, ever, have I pleaded for a character to stop talking. But I found myself wishing Dean would just stop talking.


    After the episode was over and I thought about it a little...I took it back. It occurred to me that what was irritating me was the fact that Dean seemed to be talking to hear himself talk...and the inanities might actually be Dean knowing that he'd returned to a life that doesn't fit him anymore; that his main underpinning (Sam) wasn't there anymore and that he's changed to much to return to his life. So, now I'm thinking that the refusal to acknowledge Sam's reactions to his words or his constant insistence that Sam doesn't mean what he's saying is Dean in denial. So....I forgave the talking and just began to wish that they (the writers) get it in gear and move that story forward. 3 episodes is too long for me.

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  52. ScottA18 October 2012 at 12:20

    I think you've captured that episode brilliantly. From my edge of the world though, I think the dialogue between the brothers has been excellent. Dean being so far over the top and Sam, realizing this, is just tossing him a bone here and there to placate him. I feel that Sam has made his decision and doesn't really care what Dean has to say about it. And we're getting a lot more fun dialogue.

    I'll be waiting for the big question. Every first date I've been on I've been asked: "What do you do for a living?". I'll be very interested in what Sam says to Amelia.

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  53. ScottA18 October 2012 at 12:22

    I don't think they're acting cold but Sam has finally decided he;s going to quit and tosses Dean a bone every once in a while to keep him happy. Sam is just trying to not rock the boat until this is over.

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  54. ScottA18 October 2012 at 12:23

    Plus Dean bought an app.

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  55. hlnkid18 October 2012 at 12:26

    Another excellent episode! Cudo's to Jensen for probably his best
    directing job so far. So tough when you have such your character is
    such a big part of the episode.



    Poor Dean. Trying so hard to be back in his normal world and to
    try and keep his only
    family together. And I think to a point, trying to convince himself as
    well that this is what he wants...when part of him longs to be the
    primal hunter again as he was in purgatory. Some wonderfully subtle
    looks from Jensen dealing with the emotionality of it all. And Sam,
    realizing now more than ever how he longs to be back into what he had as
    'normal' for a year. Trying hard to be determined about it, but you
    can see that he's still conflicted at the same time.



    Wonderful performance by both Jared and Jensen last night -a quietly powerful performance by both.





    Of course we all know Sam wont ever get that 'normal', at least
    not forever...one way or another he'll always be sucked back in. It's
    the 'how it all happens' that will keep us guessing.



    This episode was very well cast too with every actor giving
    great performances. Good job by Jensen again to get the best out of
    those working under him for that week.





    Now, next week's ep worries me and I don't usually say that.
    But Ghostfacers is one of my least favorite episodes of SPN and this one
    looks similiar in that the boys aren't the main characters. I'll hold
    judgement until I see it...but still I worry and wonder. :)





    Anyway, loved Heartache! Great job all around!

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  56. chris68418 October 2012 at 12:56

    What I'm stuck on is Sam's decision in season 2 to keep fighting hunting after John died. The way I see it is this: Sam as a child hated being a freak and wanted what everyone else had. He made that happen for a while and had his dream life with going to college and Jessica (who I'm sure celebrated his birthday). He went back to hunting with his brother out of revenge after Jess died, but after John died and their chance for revenge against YED had seemingly gotten away because they didn't have the Colt anymore, he had the opportunity to go back to Stanford, but chose not to because in the year hunting with Dean he realized something - that there was value in what they were doing - saving people. He also realized that he belonged with his family and working in the family business. He had found a sense of purpose in hunting that was a better fit for him than his "normal" life. We never saw Sam yearn for normal again until now.


    I'm not saying that it's unreasonable that his priorities might change. For me a better rationale would be Sam looking at all of the death over the past seven years, the torture, the pain, the ethical compromises - weighing the good they've done against the bad, and realizing the futility of what they were trying to do. If Sam found a better way to make a contribution to the world - because I think redemption still has to be a big priority to him after the Lucifer ordeal - then I could see him wanting to make a break with hunting.

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  57. chris68418 October 2012 at 12:59

    The head scratcher of the week - Sam was looking at colleges. I want to know whether he was thinking of applying under his own name or fake alias. If it's his own name, he can transfer his Stanford credits, but there's a big problem to that. Sam Winchester is dead, and before he was, he was one of the most wanted criminals in the country. If it's an alias, how is he going to get the back history (transcripts, SAT scores, references, etc.) to send to colleges?

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  58. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:06

    It seems to me that both brothers are trying to fit into a world/dynamic they dont really fit into any more. Sam is disconnected and almost and Dean is in denial. At this point I'm not sure either brother actually knows what they really want and are just going with what they've usually done.


    I do think they want to be together and have that bond they had before but they've both changed and cant fall back into step as easily. I think here is where we start to see them both pulling away from each other wanting different things (Sam normal and Dean fighting with Benny). I just wonder if it is the coming apart of those different things that eventually open both their eyes to what they really want and it allows them to be closer again?

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  59. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:15

    I guess it all comes back to what Jared said in interviews over the summer about Sam having lost everyone and having no ties to the hunting world at all this time where as while in college he knew his brother and father were out there fighting and so he was never really completely out of the hunting world, he wouldn't allow himself to be fully immersed in normal because his family were always there. Also Sam said he never really fit in when at college. It was different this time because he had no ties to hunting, he had no family out there, he was fully into the life and maybe he even actually fit in this time?

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  60. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:20

    it may be the case, wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps they needed a Sam that was disconnected from Dean and hunting so Dean's lying and trusting a minster behind his back was more believable? At the moment I can see how Sam's mind set would make it easier for Dean to do so. They need the brothers believably apart so that Dean's story makes more sense, so he can go off with Benny when the time comes and so the brothers do have separate things going on even if one brothers separate story is only a few seconds of memories of a normal life for now.

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  61. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:25

    how normal was Sam's normal in Stanford when his family were out hunting, he didn't talk about what his family did, he didn't talk about his life pre college and he was having nightmares about his girlfriend burning on the ceiling?


    Not to mention its probably all tainted by the fact that he had demons following him around his whole life including and probably most importantly during Stanford?

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  62. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:27

    the fact that we never really get into Sam's head makes it harder to actually know if he had truly accepted his life as a hunter or if he had just resigned himself to life as a hunter because he thought everything else was to far out of reach?

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  63. isleofskye18 October 2012 at 13:39

    Do you really think the writers will even pose that problem to themselves, if they ever decide to make Sam retire from hunting and go back to college!?
    They have disregarded lots of continuity up until now, so why would they bother with a little thing like that!

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  64. chris68418 October 2012 at 13:40

    I don't know. He seemed pretty immersed in his life at Stanford to me. He was planning on attending law school, he had friends, he was going to ask Jessica to marry him, he hadn't seen his family in a couple of years. A lot of people have baggage from family or other parts of their past, but that doesn't mean that they are not fully immersed in the life they are leading. That explanation feels like a rewrite of history to me.

    How would Sam in his present state - having been Lucifer's vessel, knowing he had demon blood in him, having been to hell for 180 years - have less baggage now than his did at Stanford? Plus, we've been given spoilers that Sam is not 100% upfront with Amelia about everything, same as with Jess, but now the secrets are much bigger.

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  65. lsbloom18 October 2012 at 13:46

    Dean's always been the one in charge, but I've never gotten such a "bulldozing" feel from him before. I too at points was like, jeez buddy, quit it.

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  66. cns3e18 October 2012 at 13:51

    See, I felt Dean came out looking like the selfish brother. He didn't show one ounce of interest in Sam's year of normalacy and he didn't even show any sympathy to Sam's desire to get out of the hunting life.
    Now, I completely understand why Dean wouldn't want to hunt alone, but to emotionally blackmail Sam to stay is not good.

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  67. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:52

    Sam always had a reason to keep hunting as far as I can remember even after John died the YED was still out there and that was his reason for not going back to normal the job wasnt done, then after they killed YED he had Dean's deal to break, then Lillith to kill and apocalypse to be averted. Its only in season 6 that Sam finally stops having a reason to fight but we soulless Sam to carry on fighting, after that Sam's just been about trying not to fall apart under the weight of his own damaged soul and mind and hunting served as a good distraction but not really a reason to carry on.


    Now at the end of season 7 Sam is literally the last man standing and there is no more reason to fight because he thinks Dean is dead like everyone else is dead. His ties to hunting are completely cut so Normal doesn't seem as inconceivable as many are making it out to be. He no longer has any priorities, there are hunters to take care of the hunting just like when Dean stopped hunting there were hunters who would have been taking care of any hunts.


    While I think its perfectly rational and believable that he came to where he is, it also isn't inconceivable that he just got tired of all the death and futility of what they were trying to do. Maybe Sam came to a point where hunting wasn't the answer any more, again conceivable considering everything that has happened over the years. Inevitably hunting for the Winchesters leads them to more trouble and while they do save lots of people a lot of people also die.


    I'm not sure redemption has any part in Sam's decision making or the writers decision making any more and nor do I think it should.


    Sam has had everyone he has ever loved taken away from him mostly in the cruellest ways maybe he just got tired of fighting a fight he never seemed to be winning? Until they actually tell us more about Sam's mind set we can only make assumptions.

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  68. tvmonkey18 October 2012 at 13:54

    be warned making anti Dean remarks on this page will only get you a lot of grief.

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  69. lsbloom18 October 2012 at 14:01

    I was really impressed with the special effects this week. It feels like they got a whole new budget. Really nice touches. And fairly gruesome.


    I wasn't as excited about the MOW and how the pacing correlated with the distances they had to travel. I've never noticed that as much as I did last night. It felt choppy and a little slow--just like a road trip, hurry up and wait. I think it was to give you brother talking time, which is probably why it bothered me.


    I know a lot of people are commenting about that this season. I'm with them. Judgmental Dean is just not my favorite person and combining that with obsessive "I find clarity and purpose in the kill" post-purgatory Dean is way over the top. But here's the part that really rankles me, I want to sympathize with Sam, but I can't. The writers aren't letting me. Dean's crossing lines and Sam's got one look to tell me "Hey that might be a bit callous" or "Dean you've headed pretty far from the shallow end." Am I to think that Dean is acting acceptibly? Sam never steps in a tries to stop him, doesn't talk about it? It's like he's along for whatever crazy ride but he's not present at all. By the time I got engaged in the Amelia flashback and filled in the gaps with why Sam was spazing out, it was over. There was so much info to process, there were emotions, the scene was set up to tell us something and give Sam purpose and develop his fears of being alone and everyone he's ever known always being in danger, and juxtapose that with the concept of a happy normal oblivious existence. But it was like 10 seconds long and before you got to any of that you were back in the Impala. Dean's gotten a lot of attention and focus, you know why he is acting the way he is acting they've at least laid the groundwork for his entire transformation. Sam just stuck there acting like he's back at Stanford on their first hunt with no rhyme or reason for any of it. The dynamic and the pacing are just off for me this season.

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  70. jensenfan197818 October 2012 at 14:14

    I've been reading the comments. As far as I know, Sam had motives to stay, but this season he didn't. I don't like that he never made the attempt to look for Dean, but the losses have been many and maybe he just couldn't deal any more. Dean talking? Yeah, it's unusual, but the boy has not had a human to talk to for one entire year. He's changed, yes. On earth, he was a hunter and a killer with a conscious, but Purgatory was different. There was no time out to drink a beer with his brother, or spend the night with a pretty girl. He had to become cold, no conscious, and vicious to survive. A year of that can change one. Back to the talking, he hasn't had his brother to talk to for one entire year. So? He gabs? To top it off he's terrified he's gonna lose Sam. He's in denial. If he talks, Sam can't tell him he's leaving him. I understand it totally. I like the story line and Carver will do this justice. Give him time.

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  71. chris68418 October 2012 at 14:19

    We're going to have to agree to disagree on most of this. The changes in Sam don't seem natural to me yet. The writers will have to slowly walk us through Sam's year apart to build this case if I'm ever to buy it, and 15-second flashbacks aren't going to do it.

    Maybe redemption was the wrong word, but Sam's seen too much evil (he was mentally joined with Lucifer, for christ's sake) and has had a hand in much of it, even if most of it was unintentional. He's a good person and I don't believe after what he's experienced he could ever completely turn his back on trying to make things better.

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  72. wayliz18 October 2012 at 14:34

    Poor writing saved by some great direction from Jensen. This show needs some female writers *badly*. What I wouldn't give to have Raelle Tucker or Cathryn Humphries back. I can't believe that these guys are trying to sell us on Sam's relationship with Amelia being so solid that he wants to give up hunting, but then they are too lazy to actually write anything about the relationship. Seriously disappointed with the lack of focus there. How do they expect the audience to get invested when they themselves obviously aren't invested? We go from seeing her being a bitch to him the first time they met, to them being totally in love with birthday cakes and happy sunshine the next. I feel like it's Sam's Lucifer hallucination storyline all over again. "We'll tell the audience in one episode what's going on with Sam, and then we'll just let them imagine the rest."

    I also agree with those that don't like the flashbacks. The story would have been much more poignant and compelling told in real time. It's hard to feel any jeopardy about the things happening in Purgatory, because we know that Dean clearly makes it out O.K. It's also hard to feel/understand Sam's total devastation about losing everyone and his eventual decision to move on, because we're not seeing the journey - only the end result.

    I do think perhaps Sam's comment about having something he's never had before, which initially bothered me, may relate to the fact that he came clean with Amelia. This is just speculation, but I'm thinking he told her all about his hunting life and his past deeds - which he was never abe to do with Jess. In that way, he could finally be totally and completely honest with a woman. Of course, I doubt we'll actually see that....Sam will probably just tell Dean that that is what happened.

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  73. nellymendezcolon18 October 2012 at 14:53

    that’s the problem until both are dead . that will be OVER you think any kind of evil will hunting sam and do anything to punish o hurt him any way undreamed remember the scene when sam left somebody is watching his house if he wants a NORMAL LIFE the price will be very high to pay I think sam wants a crystal bubble life is never gone to happen.

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  74. Charlene Buchanan18 October 2012 at 15:25

    I didn't love it ether , but i think " the slice girls" , "bugs" "route 66" "hook man" etc...were alot worse ...i give "lets talk about Kevin " that gets 7/10 "whats up tiger mummy " get's 9/10 "heartache" gets 8/10


    we always have our ok episodes and though Sara did her best , to me it was a mess .... Jeremy caver says he has a vision for it so lets just see where it takes us ... i dont get why some people start hating on dean and some start hating on sam ...Both have missed a whole year so there is a story to be told ...and can i just member you that in season 4 ep1 we never saw any flash backs at all apart from dean looking in the mirror so were lucky we got that for the very 1st episode ...personally i find this a whole lot more interesting than season 4 , season 4 is overrated the episodes aint that good , i suppose it's good cause Cass comes and sam goes darker and Ruby etc....but it's weak story to me (but that's me )


    so gays i know it's up to you to hate it but give it a try because the first tow episode were rock solid and like a person said before this episode was before comic con


    in order of the season of my favs i give


    season 2
    season 5
    season 3
    season 8
    season 4
    season 7
    season 6
    season 1

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  75. SuePo18 October 2012 at 15:36

    This was a decent MOW episode. It was nice to see a departure from hunting something familiar to having the guys actually have to use their heads and figure it out. There was a lot of exposition instead of action in this, but it re-establishes the fact that the Winchesters can hunt on their own without falling back on Bobby, Frank, Castiel or somebody with more knowledge. Yes they did use the professor from Slice Girls, but it was understandable they couldn't identify a phrase in Mayan. Who could? I liked Jensen's direction, and despite all the talking, the episode moved along nicely. There's tension between the brothers right now but I believe it's realistic tension. Dean is back in a world he doesn't fit into anymore. He's been a warrior for the last year and he's accepted that he is at his best when he sets his mind on the job. His forays into normalcy didn't end well and he was losing what little joy he had as the problems kept piling higher on his shoulders. Now, after fighting and surviving Purgatory, he's decided to let go of all the questions and problems that weighed him down and he finds his purpose clearer and he's focused. He just wants to hunt with his brother. That's really all he ever wanted. But Sam, again, is having doubts about that life. He was able to let go of all his burdens through a completely different avenue. He walked away from his 'normal' simply because he knew that's what Dean wanted, but long term, he's trying to figure out where he fits in. That's a fundamental difference between them -- Sam thinks long-term, Dean lives in the moment. I like this Dean, excited about what's going on at the moment. He really doesn't want to consider the future or what they would do if they could close the gates of Hell forever, so he's not in favor of Sam looking to the future either. I don't think Sam can ever have his normal. Sure, he did it for a year, but I don't think the monsters are going to leave the Winchesters alone long term. Whether Dean's pragmatic take on their lives is the correct one, or Sam's hopeful one is, I think the boys are going to have to find a common ground. This episode was meant to spotlight that even thought the brothers are far apart in their mindset at the moment, they can still think as one unit and achieve their goals. The trick is going to be finding out whether thay can find a balance where neither of them ends up sacrificing for the other.

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  76. Megan_B18 October 2012 at 18:41

    I don't know if you saw, but I wrote a lot of others factors. The ''there's always gonna be someone else to save the world'' from the finale, being tired and all...etc, go read my posts if you haven't or if you have, we'll just have to agree to disagree


    Sometimes I think that we need to stop 2 minutes and try to understand the writers' POV and not go ''the writers don't see it the way I do so they're always wrong and the fandom/me is always right''. In every fandom I always have that feeling that the fans are always the 'right' ones.


    I'm not saying that what's happening is the way I was thinking in the summer or after the finale, not at ALL. I had my whole other way of seeing how Sam would react, what he would do, what his priorities for the year between and the S8 would be..etc, it turned out they went to a whole other direction. And what you think, what I was thinking, what other people were thinking and the direction the writers took are all totally differents position that all can be explain at some extent and all are logical. Just because the one that happened is not the one we wanted doesn,t mean that we should throw it away as being a ''mistake'' and not think about the 'logic' behind it. It was badly presented in the episode, I give you that, but if I was in Sam's position, I don,t think there's 100000000% chance I wouldn't feel what he's feeling

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  77. prpleight18 October 2012 at 23:26

    As you state it it is the kind of story I could get behind watching...my only real problem is the pacing...I need them (which is to say 'I hope that the writers') recognize that they have made their point, in terms of setting up where the brothers are in their relationship, and start moving that story forward.

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  78. KatAdams0319 October 2012 at 05:47

    I can see where you are coming from. Dean's lack interest in Sam and what Sam did is about worrisome. Dean had no interest in learning how in the world Sam thought about the reverse exorcism. He asked about how Sam did that, but he didn't ask about how did Sam learn that, which to me seems like something kind of important. And Dean is definitely manipulating Sam by saying everything he can to get Sam to stay, but Sam hasn't gone anywhere yet. Sam is entertaining the idea and he is staying around. But Sam is so quiet, it's hard to really understand how much Dean is saying is sinking in.


    I'm not sure if it's selfishness as much as not being concerned and only seeing things from his side. In fairness to Dean, I understand why he would feel this way. Probably in Purgatory, Dean didn't ask a lot of questions as to how someone knew something. I don't remember Dean asking Benny how he knew about the loop-hole, only asking Benny if he should trust him. (Forgive me, if he did ask that question about where Benny heard about it.) But right now, Dean is so focused on hunting I don't think he can see passed anything else and given the fact Dean is still in Purgatory mode, I understand where Dean's mental state is. Sam's mental state not so much.
    Yet, I think both brothers are avoiding seeing things from each other's point of view. Sam isn't communicating with Dean nor he asking questions about Purgatory. That may change once he meets Benny. Dean isn't thinking about why Sam appears so distance and tired which does not match Sam's restful year. Sam knows new tricks, he is pretty much on the top of his game (he isn't the slightest bit rusty for a guy who just hit a dog and dated a vet for a year), and something is off about him. Dean hasn't noticed any of these things. Sam's noticed that Dean is off, but he isn't doing anything. This is a disconnection between the brothers that runs deeper than mere selfishness on either brothers behalf.

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  79. isleofskye19 October 2012 at 06:33

    I was trying to remember where Sam had said that he had accepted his hunting life and was good with it and eventually I got it. It was in Wishing Well. A really great episode full of brotherly interaction.

    Both brothers were terrific in it and each had meaningful moments both in characterization and in the evolution of of the story-line.
    Anyway Sam says these words:in front of the wishing well, as Dean asks him what he would wish for:-

    [ DEAN

    Come on, if you could wish yourself back, you know, before it all
    started... Think about it. You'd be some big yuppie lawyer with a nice
    car and a white picket fence.



    SAM

    Not what I'd wish for.



    DEAN

    Seriously?



    SAM

    It's too late to go back to our old lives, Dean. I'm not that guy anymore.



    DEAN

    All right, well, what, then? Hmm? What would Sammy wish for?



    SAM

    Lilith's head on a plate. Bloody. ]

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  80. lsbloom19 October 2012 at 20:42

    Thanks for the quote. That's a good find.

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  81. isleofskye20 October 2012 at 16:56

    I'm sure it's not the only quote that bears witness to Sam's commitment to hunting, as opposed to normal
    He's probably mentioned it at other times too, but this is pretty clear.:)

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