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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Once Upon a Time - Episode 2.01 - 2 New Recurring Roles *Updated*

16 Jun 2012

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Episode 2.01 will see the introduction of 2 recurring characters. Anastasia and Magnolia.

Thanks to The Spoiler Fairy for sending us the following updated with a few more details.

Anastasia is a princess.

Magnolia is a fierce Asian warrior who feels a connection to the earth and its creatures.

Both of their stories involve love

Source: SpoilerTV
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99 comments:

  1. nellymendezcolon18 June 2012 at 09:49

    mmmm...more info please...witch mythological or child story character they will be a female transform human Unicorn like the cricket

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  2. DarkUFO18 June 2012 at 09:49

    That's all the info we have. As soon as we know more we'll be sure to post.

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  3. Liczi18 June 2012 at 09:49

    I think Anastasia is Cinderella's sister

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  4. James Swift18 June 2012 at 09:49

    Hard to tell what to make of that without any additional information. Anastasia is Greek and means "resurrection". Magnolia is obviously a flower. Are there any fairytales in which flowers are especially important?

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  5. Orla18 June 2012 at 09:49

    Oh! That makes more sense!

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  6. bluebox44418 June 2012 at 09:50

    Good one! I'm thinking that might be who she is. Magnolia could be the other stepsister, I suppose. Her name was Drizella in the Disney movie, but as that sounds kinds of stupid, OUAT may have changed it.

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  7. SpoilerFairy18 June 2012 at 09:50

    I'm also guessing Magnolia is Mulan.

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  8. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:50

    Oh god. PLEASE DO NOT BE MULAN. PLEASE DO NOT BE MULAN.

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  9. Lissie_Bee18 June 2012 at 09:50

    "Both of their stories involve love." Whose story DOESN'T? Anyway, I'm intrigued. Love both of the names, too!

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  10. Jonathan Francesco18 June 2012 at 09:50

    I wonder if the story will resemble the Anastasia movies at all. A fancy name like that seems destined to be connected to one of those stories, obviously with a typical OUAT twist.

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  11. Neto18 June 2012 at 09:50

    Anastasia and Mulan?
    Writers, don't ruin the show........

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  12. Cathy18 June 2012 at 09:50

    Oh no.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Cathy18 June 2012 at 09:50

    Don't like the idea either.

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  14. Adam Armstrong18 June 2012 at 09:50

    I think those are their Storybrooke names. Anastasia could mean a sign of classic royality so she might be Sleeping Beauty (I hope). Magnolia is totally Mulan (and I always thought of Mulan as a legend not a real person in fact I think that's the truth)

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  15. Adam Armstrong18 June 2012 at 09:50

    Those might be their Storybrooke names. Anastasia could be Sleeping Beauty (I hope) but Magnolia is totally Mulan. I always thought Mulan was just a legend. I think you guys are confusing Mulan with Pocahontas.

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  16. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:51

    Magnolia is a literal interpretation of the name 'Mulan'

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  17. AlissonCX CX18 June 2012 at 09:52

    Fierce asian warrior? Mulan? I thought it was Pocahontas...

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  18. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:52

    I'll go against the comment flow and say OH HELL TO THE YES.


    Three characters I could not wait to see: Sleeping Beauty, Ariel and Mulan and we are finally getting mulan. Yes yes yes.


    This makes perfect sense, maybe even has a connection to the oriental-designed door in the hat.


    And people, seriously? Hat Trick made it obvious we will touch it, since there are at least two eastern-asian influenced doors, one japanese and one chinese.

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  19. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:52

    Most likely their parallel versions from another world.


    If we are going for "omg don't touch real people", Snow white also has been inspired by real life person.
    REMEMBER, OUAT adheres to the many-worlds theory of multiversal existence. Mulan might have been a real person we know from history in our world, yet in another world she might be as Disney animated her. Same with Anastasia.

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  20. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:52

    If we are going "oh don't touch historical figures", even snow white character has been inspired by real life person


    Remember, OUAT adheres to many worlds interpretation of our universe.




    Mulan and Anastasia we mjght know from OUR real world history, but they might have lived entirely different lives in the other hat worlds. so you can have "real life" Mulan as historical figure and then there's Mulan in some other world that is just like Disney adaptation.

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  21. Pascal21918 June 2012 at 09:53

    I'll take a wait and see approach to this. The writing on this show can be very good but also very bad. Especially when involving love stories.

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  22. Bruce_F18 June 2012 at 09:53

    Wow. I'm very disappointed by how many people want to throw these characters under a bus even before they make it to screen. Seems closed minded to me, especially when the show in question is pure fantasy.

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  23. tvmonkey18 June 2012 at 09:53

    Pocahontas was not Asian, she was native American.

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  24. tvmonkey18 June 2012 at 09:53

    Most fairy tales are based on real people, the truth is usually just twisted over the years. Anastasia and Pochahontas, were real people too.

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  25. roswellian53118 June 2012 at 09:54

    I hope that's Mulan. So excited for her!

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  26. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:54

    Hear hear, got called a "japanophile" for saying I was excited about Mulan appearing on OUAT over tumblr.

    Some people really surprise me.

    There's nothing wrong in using fiction versions of historical figures, especially since Hat Trick episode already laid groundwork for the whole parallel universes idea, so we technically could have both our real life versions of those characters existing alongside the fictional versions of them in another world.

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  27. João Paulo18 June 2012 at 09:54

    I love Anastasia, russian princess of my heart tie with Mulan. Can't wait to see the season 2.

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  28. David Fischer18 June 2012 at 09:54

    Why all the new characters? They can't even properly manage the characters they already have.


    Besides, I don't care abut seeing new characters and their love lives while poor Red and Regina suffer without their true loves.

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  29. CJ18 June 2012 at 09:54

    Yay for diversity for OUAT!! Bring it on. Definitely looking forward to seeing these characters on screen.

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  30. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 09:54

    agree!

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  31. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:54

    With the history of this show with racism and the description of Mulan being so stereotypically racist, it's hard to be positive.

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  32. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:54

    There's more out now. ONCE UPON A TIME, Ep. 201
    Director: Dean White
    Writers: Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz
    Shoots: July 13 - 27
    Location: Vancouver

    [ANASTASIA] Female, early to mid 20s. Born into a life of wealth and privilege, Anastasia was raised every bit the polished princess. But beneath the shiny veneer of a spoiled young girl beats the heart of a woman willing to sacrifice everything for love. Recurring Guest Star.

    [MAGNOLIA] Female, Asian. Early to mid 20s. A warrior first and foremost, she could hold her own against a swordsman or even a king. She is trained in weaponry, tracking and riding, but has a spirituality that enhances her tactical and strategic abilities. Like the flower she’s named for, Magnolia is beautiful and may, to the uninformed, seem delicate; her roots, however, go deep—she has an intuitive connection to the land and to the creatures who inhabit it. She can “hear” the breathing of the earth or “see” a camouflaged animal. She is well-versed in the philosophies of her people and is able to see the larger picture. She has suffered past betrayals, so her trust is hard-won, but once she gives her oath of friendship her loyalty knows no boundaries. Similarly, when she falls in love, she falls hard—Magnolia’s armor protects a fierce heart. Recurring Guest Star.

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  33. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:54

    So why even bother watching the show if you're just watching live adaptions of the Disney movies?

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  34. tvmonkey18 June 2012 at 09:54

    um because its a TV show and the TV character versions or film versions are different enough from the real people to count as fairy tale characters. TV isnt real life and Once is definitely not related to any real life or time in the real world.

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  35. James Swift18 June 2012 at 09:54

    I do think OUAT did a pretty poor job with racial diversity so far. But like with other issues that fandom discussed more fiercly than the writers expected I don't think they intended to. Which is not an excuse. But with some issues they seem to need the audience pointing it out them first and then they try to adapt and apply changes.

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  36. roswellian53118 June 2012 at 09:54

    Agreed. At least wait until you watch the episodes...

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  37. Bruce_F18 June 2012 at 09:54

    I think TV in general has a diversity deficit so I'm not going to single OUAT out for that. The only racial/stereotype related problem I have with the show is almost everything concerning Genie/Magic Mirror/Sidney. His entire character in all his forms has been handled quite badly.

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  38. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:54

    Because this show is all about taking those concepts we know and twisting it into something exciting, new and unexpected? :)

    The very main attractor of this show is seeing those "Disney stereotypes" being subverted or averted into something unexpected.

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  39. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 09:54

    First of all Disney's are the adaptations to many original tales, but I think the Once people have done a great job of using some of Disney's envisionment, (for pop culture familiarization) but yet also weave it all together and make it darker -like most tales where once originally. Bell for example is really interesting, as something different is the idea that rumple is the Beast, and that there are these "ogre wars"...Jefferson too has a hat that goes to SEVERAL realities, thus allowing the writers the luxury of writing various types of parallels and juxtapositions to any one give reality and/or set of people.


    I don't think anything about the series is exceptionally traditional, because so far (except for Emma) I feel a lot of characters really keep fleshing out and IMO you do get see characters that are far more complicated than Disney has ever made them and even Grimm origins rather played homage to Biblical reworkings and consequences of immoral decisions than working through that to see if these people can be happy...

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  40. laura334118 June 2012 at 09:54

    I hope you meant from the get-go and not ghetto.

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  41. laura334118 June 2012 at 09:54

    I agree Bruce! *liked u*

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  42. laura334118 June 2012 at 09:54

    Honestly,i don't know if i will like the new characters or not but i am going to give it time.I'm just excited for S2 to start. I'll bitch about it sometime next season if i don't like where its going....

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  43. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:57

    Already explained by Mad Hatter.

    Parallel realities.

    There's more than one "world". People of our world could have easily existed in FTL or any other world, leading an entirely different life from the one they were leading in ours.

    Going by hatter's explanation, the very fact that there's fiction based on those two characters, means that they exist in some other world. :)

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  44. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:57

    Actually, that is exactly what makes a show racist. When there are dozens of characters and only two who are not white and BOTH are villains. One is the stereotype of a hotheaded Latina, and even her ethnicity is questioned because people want her to be race-neutral, re: white. And the other is a black man who in fairytale man is the literal Magical Negro and in Storybrooke is a criminal.

    This description IS racist. First of all, it feeds into the '~Asian warrior' stereotype, the 'mystical Asian who is connected to the earth in a way others aren't stereotype' and with the standard Once Upon a Time sexism line.

    There is no such thing as looking TOO DEEP into race. If someone feels it and you don't, it doesn't make them wrong but you should definitely question why you need to dismiss it. Sometimes we're fans of problematic shows and white privilege permeates everything in America.

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  45. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:57

    I would believe that if I saw one thing in this show that was new or unexpected. I have yet to see a single Disney stereotype be subverted or averted into something unexpected. In fact, all I have seen is the Disney stereotype fed into even more.

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  46. laura334118 June 2012 at 09:57

    Borednow. I don't think Once is racist,i never said that.I only wanted to make sure i understood your wording,to me it sounded more like ghetto,but it didn't jive with what you were saying. You answered my question,thanks!

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  47. Courtney18 June 2012 at 09:57

    So how exactly are they going to fit into fairytale world if they're from a parallel reality?

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  48. Sandi18 June 2012 at 09:57

    In that case, how do they exist in Disney fairytale world if they have lived and died already in ours? That's right, it's not real ;)

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  49. Zsazsa R18 June 2012 at 09:57

    If these recurring characters will be something like Cinderella or (kinda like) the Blue Fairy (their story introduced and they show up here and there) I'm fine. But I hope they won't make this show overcrowded with recurring people.

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  50. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 09:58

    There could be more than one way to do this. Think of each reality as it's own time line...now either Storybrooke is going to start transforming back to Fairy tale Land...or not, but listening to some video footage from the actors before the start of the series, seems to imply they believed that there is a point to "restore" Fairy tale land...


    They can either show us the other reality/realities as flashbacks (just as the previous fairy tale reality did with season one) and then have those characters emerge in the newer version of Fairy Tale Land-Storybrooke, or they can keep them separate and use them as parallels to the main characters and their situations (Mulan and Anastasia are both about Hidden Identity and proving one's self to the world/one's family---it seems likely this will be one main theme of the season--which Aladdan also fits in here too! _and also why Red may be come a main character), or it can just be something that is also happening along-side us (a parallel reality with no flash backs) and then they could converge or a bridge be made...

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  51. Borednow18 June 2012 at 09:59

    Then with all due respect we must be somehow watching entirely different shows.

    belle, snow, red, Geppeto, evil queen even the likes of Jiminy Cricket, had very different storylines compared to Disney versions.

    We got strong interesting badass, mean Snow White(hell the very idea of Snow trying to smash that bird was a very strong visual subversion of expectations alone), we got very dark adaptation fo Red where Red is the wolf, we got evil queen who is likeable and had actual backstory, we got Jimony Cricket who is driven by his own guilt, we got a very different beauty and the beast with very different ending.

    None of fairytale stories so far have unfolded like they did in Disney versions and none of those stories went like one would expect them to in fairytale.

    Hence another big plus of this show - its about fairytales, but all those fairytales are made real and not fairy-taleish.

    Thats why A lot of people love this show. Its "Disney:Grown-up Version" made with that particular expectation aversion idea spice that made Lost so delicious. its for those of us who grew up with fairytales and/or Disney movies and who loved the unexpected twisty aspects of Lost

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  52. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 09:59

    I disagree with this statement too. Most of the characters are based on people in myth and folklore and in a lot of cases those have old origins... So Mulan or a Mulan-like character has to be Asian, because it related to an Asian person and myth. -Thus allowing for Asian themes/philosophy/culture to become a part of the show. (how is adding culture racist?) Snow White is has Christian-German origins (Grimm Bros) and thus Europeans are described/depicted Caucation, as Snow White is described in the folk tale as having 'snow-white-porcelain skin'.. (and the Once writers followed through with this with Charming with Biblical-Judo-Christian themes with 'good sheppard' aka James and David)...


    Really your being racist by saying there is only one kind of white person! (we all derive from all over the world time and time again through out the history of humanity via immigration and imperialism) --We all have to label in order to identify, but that doesn't mean your "against" a group of people just because your categorical, because that is HOW any of us know the differences between ourselves/ things in space-time. I am not such and such, because I am such and such. (this Red and Red is different color from blue, but Purple has blue and red mixed together, but the exact shade of these things depends on several factors...I like red because it makes me feel and reminds me of such and such. This is how we LEARN)


    Regina and Sydney are Villains, but so is Rumple and he's played by a Scottish actor, and in any case they are not "black and white" villains as you make them out. Their reason for becoming such are complicated, same as for the Heroes...They have ALL made really horrible choices from time to time, because of all the people in their lives. IMO that is as TRUE as a show can get, because it's something we all can relate to. That's what the show is about, the complexities of being human NO MATTER WHOM WE ARE!

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  53. laura334118 June 2012 at 09:59

    Nicely said!

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  54. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 09:59

    They say they would also do Aladdin this year...it seems that idea about hidden Identity, or lying about whom you really are/discovering your origins may be more thematic this season...But in all these cases these characters have to prove themselves to their family in some way...Family is about love too, so I don't think it's exclusive to just romantic relationships, but fairy tales/myths are often about love because it's something most people want in their lives...to be with people who love them and want them in their lives....For Emma this might be a great challenge, because we really don't know what her childhood was like, and who and how she came across Henry's father...

    They have also opened the door with these things with both James/David Evil Queen/Regina...both of those characters had their hopes shattered and seemed to be forced into situations they didn't want to be in by high and mighty family members, but Regina's took her love away and James' brought love to him. -It's a really great juxtaposition and I think that's why the David-Regina Kitchen scene was so interesting and almost heart-breaking, because they do have something in common.

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  55. Cadence18 June 2012 at 09:59

    What I meant is that to define an entire character by her need to be in a romantic relationship has often been one of the more problematic aspects of gender representation on TV. For example, on Star Trek TNG, Troi's episodes were almost exclusively love stories. The writers felt that their female character ought to be the one to tell those stories and, furthermore, could ONLY tell those stories. At least in earlier seasons.


    Anyway, I won't judge the episodes until I watch them, but since everyone up in here is discussing problems regarding diversity and tropes, I thought I would chime in re: women in love.

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  56. Cadence18 June 2012 at 09:59

    Ahahaha, I thought you were being all I AM BORED OF THIS DISCUSSION and I was all HOW RUDE. I then realised that you were replying to Borednow.

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  57. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 10:00

    when she said this:


    When there are dozens of characters and only two who are not white and BOTH are villains.



    She is saying they are "the only two not white...", as if "white" is one category (cultural derivative) verses not white (which she goes out of her way to be diverse), Then she is trying to say that other non white people are "always" "ethnic" people, and they are always "villains"...where I don't think that's true any more. (Plus there's R.C. who's Scottish that has a MUCH bigger role than Sydney Glass)


    IMO I think the writers are going back to their BR roots in which it is about the anthological aspect of humanity by actually being culturally diverse taking these myths, tales, stories from the history (many time periods) of humanity all over the world and putting them into multiple universe dynamics makes it very about being human from a multi-cultural perspective to see where humans share origin and experiences (such as" freedom" and "family")...


    I disagree about Regina because clearly Cora is the root (and clearly has something to do with Henry Sr) and it's unclear if this is completely learned behavior, or if there is a more magical entity involved like with Rumple, but in any case I feel horrible for her, because her loss is eating her, and everyone else around her alive!

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  58. Cadence18 June 2012 at 10:00

    ... I'm confused as to what label you would use with regards to saying that there are non-white characters on a TV show. Seeing as how pretty much every show ever is comprised of largely white cast with the occasional bout of tokenism, I don't see how any other term could be used. And saying "white people" and pointing out how some people are "not white" isn't racist at all.

    Also, she isn't saying "non-whites" are "always" villains. She's saying that that happens to be the case on OUAT. Where the only members of racial minorities happen to be villains. And again, see my point 4 re: Mr. Gold being a white villain. To expand on it a bit, if you're suggesting that we should be concerned about the protrayal of Scottish people, then sure, we can do that; however, the key difference between him and Sydney is that I don't think that Scottish people have a history of being portrayed as criminals in the media.

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  59. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 10:00

    Because even in American pop culture we have goten into saying things like "african american", "german American" even though most of us are now BORN here, we still cling to our families roots and embrace "the old country", but then we turn around and say we don't want to stereo type. My point is that even labeling "white" is a false misconspetion because surely there are people out there that feel Irish is different from French, or German from to England even though they all share roots with Ancient Rome, Carthage, or Eutruscin, ect... (even causcasions have fought with themselves; Revolutionary War, Irish came to America, English Criminals to Australia, Christian verses Judaism, German stigma of Nazi Germany, Democrat verses Republican, ect ect...we have all been fighting for ourselves and our rights through out...it isn't just white verses everyone else...We have been in factions against faction forever...)


    In America we are suppose to embrace the melting pot. IMO this show does have a mutli cultral cast with multi cultiral themes so I don't feel that they are as undiverse as everyone else believes, because the truth "everything changes" including culture and orgins as time goes on...

    I am not saying non cable TV hasn't had a problem with diversity, I just don't feel OUAT qualifies, because it's basis IMO is about how life could effect any one of us, as whether in a big old forest or in a small town, we still experience and try to find happiness...

    But I think TV and FILM diversity has come a long long way and I think it gets better all the time. And this show also has some really interesting and diverse female leads...

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  60. laura334118 June 2012 at 10:00

    LOL,I'll tell you even if i was bored i wouldn't say it like that.But there certainly have been times where i would have love to! :)

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  61. laura334118 June 2012 at 10:01

    That is one of my concerns also...

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  62. Borednow18 June 2012 at 10:01

    For one, we do NOT know that Mulan is from FTl, for example.

    For second, FTL is ALREADY a parallel reality of fairytales.

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  63. C P18 June 2012 at 10:04

    I think why there is not much diversity is they keep the actors mostly in line with the stories/fairytales, which are mostly European in looks.

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  64. Orla18 June 2012 at 10:05

    Didn't expect them to bring in Anastasia. How are they going to do that? She was a real person who died :\ Not a fictional character. No idea who Magnolia is.

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  65. Lorenza Scipioni18 June 2012 at 10:05

    Anastasia is a princess, which means she must be among the "classical royalty". I hope it's Sleeping Beauty (The witch was already introduced in the show). Plus, as you said, if her name means resurrection... who else could it be??
    Magnolia... fierce Asian warrior... Mulan?

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  66. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 10:05

    when I think about the fictional aspects of Anastasia and Mulan(?) I could see how these two people could be paralleled, but at any rate I am really interested in a female Asian warrior type...could add interesting themes and philosophy to the show and it's magic...

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  67. tvmonkey18 June 2012 at 10:05

    Anastasia would most likely be the Russian princess Anastasia?

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  68. beth shields18 June 2012 at 10:05

    I would rather see Ariel or Sleeping Beauty. But I'm looking forward to next season regardless.

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  69. Courtney18 June 2012 at 10:05

    So exactly how does that work then? How do they exist in fairytale world when they LIVED AND DIED ALREADY IN OURS?

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  70. DarthLocke418 June 2012 at 10:05

    Even in fiction often times authors base their characters on real people, but beyond that humanity has always romanticized and created fictionalized versions of historic figures in order to convey the possibility of something more complex than the truth of one's life, or what meets the eye, since really any one's perspective of reality is opinion of reality, as even the truth about things change all the time....the world is no longer flat.

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  71. James Swift18 June 2012 at 10:06

    I don't think a few more recurring characters ruin the show. We had Ashley and Belle as the recurring princess characters least season and it worked well. The only thing I find surprising is that they're casting them for the season opener. I hope they are only introduced in this episode and it's not a full on big episode for them already because the season opener should really focus on the core cast and their stories. Personally I'm no huge Mulan fan and I would prefer more classics, like Sleeping Beauty, The Frog King, Rapunzel, etc. But as long a she doesn't take up too much screentime I can live with Mulan.

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  72. Courtney18 June 2012 at 10:06

    Mulan is a real person so I really hope it's not her. Just because Disney did it does not make it a fairytale

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  73. MeatyStakes19 June 2012 at 03:37

    I dunno, pretty much everything revolves around love in the OUaTverse, and now we even know that the love of a mother for his child is True Love as well.


    So maybe Mags and Anastasia's "love" storylines aren't necessarily about romantic love.


    I'm mist likely wrong, but I like to think it will go like that.

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  74. Cadence19 June 2012 at 06:43

    Okay, well, first of all, there are a lot of problems with the melting pot. Namely that it favours assimilation and specifically does not celebrate diversity. This is in direct contrast to the Canadian multicultural model, which is largely where I am coming from.


    Second of all, just because TV and Film diversity has come a long way does not mean that we should stop striving for improvement. Do you?


    Third of all, yes, absolutely, this show has done wonders with regards to gender representation. It is lovely to see so many strong female leads.

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  75. Katarzyna Skop19 June 2012 at 09:14

    "Both of their stories involve love" sounds horrible, but it's not surprising in the least - after all, that's OUaT, EVERYTHING has something to do with love. Plus, it's not specified that their love stories are connected to ROMANTIC love. Maybe it's love for a friend? A sibling? Parents, homeland?

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  76. DarthLocke419 June 2012 at 15:02

    No. I agree that we should strive for it, that's why I argued the 'white' factor of Courtney's comments, because I felt she was unfairly signalling certain things out, that IMO I don't find "racist" in terms of Once's casting and types of roles, and also the fact that the roles IMO are meant to be "complex", and hence also goes against racism, because the point then is nobody is black and white...


    Again my argument wasn't against TV in general, but Once specifically, because it's premise is pro humanism and multicultural, as it's source materials are stories from multiple cultures in multiple countries from many different periods of human history, and this specific casting call of Mulan/Magnolia is only "adding" diversity, and I don't see in show who's premise also then includes finding "commonality" in being human, could be perceived as "racist", as Courtney claims adding Mulan/Magnolia would be...

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  77. DarthLocke419 June 2012 at 15:46

    Right here! -You hit the nail on the head!

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  78. Justine Kubica19 June 2012 at 16:42

    Can't wait to see them! I miss the show so much!

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  79. Pérola Cardozo Alves20 June 2012 at 00:30

    For all that matters, C'MON! I'm not white in origin, but i LOOK white. And when I say that things are not about a color of a peron, they label me racist, because I look White. I'm also a brazilian, and the north americans are hiper racist about us, because you think we are only about samba, carnival and violence. And I look white, but if i went in anywhere in USA to get a job, i'd probably would be looked twice, because i'm not north-american. But, THESE ARE SHOWS! And OUAT is a show based on fairytail character, written for european writers that lived centurys ago. The Mulan history was originated on China, centurys ago. Anastasia is a rusian charactere. The Mirror of the evil queen is a north-african character, because he is a genius (that used to be BLUE on the disney cartoon), but, the color of the most of north-africans is DARK. And Alladin e Jasmine should be Dark as well, by its origins. Snow White, HAD to be white, and so her daughter, and his grandson. The BLOND hair of Emma is COLLOR, cause in the real world we COLOR our hair, of the color we want. So, PLEASE, stop looking for racism on TV, START TO LOOK IN YOUR STREETS! Is there where it really matters!

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  80. Brittany Smith20 June 2012 at 04:31

    Possibly Mulan...but what about Pocahontas?

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  81. Jan van Es20 June 2012 at 11:22

    Absolutely AWESOME news post! I can't wait for their stories and Storybrooke counterrparts!

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  82. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 14:51

    I loved Mulan. But Anastasia isn't a fairytale character she's a conspiracy theory, which seems odd to me. But we'd get another really intriguing villain out of it.

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  83. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 14:54

    Especially after seeing her costume!

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  84. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 14:55

    That's interesting. 'cause I just assumed fairytale, but I like it.

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  85. Cadence20 June 2012 at 14:56

    Racism against racism is not nor should it ever be considered a thing. Seriously. People *choose* to be racist. People do not *choose* to be of a certain race. We are free to discriminate against certain choices made by others. For example, we as a society choose to discriminate against people who commit criminal acts. We might disagree on what those acts entail (for example, we all agree that murder is bad, but have trouble agreeing on aspects of drug usage) and we might disagree on how to deal with people who commit those acts (death penalty? life in prison? rehabilitation?); however, we all agree that criminals need to be dealt with somehow.


    We should not discriminate against things people can't control (like race and sexuality). Suggesting that we ought to be sensitive to the needs of bigotry is ridiculous. Pushing too hard for something makes you the subject of the thing you hate? As in, I have problems with racism and so have become racist towards racists? I mean, never mind the fact that that isn't the correct usage of the term RACism, that's effectively a defence of bigotry. Something we should probably not be defending.

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  86. Lissie_Bee20 June 2012 at 15:07

    According to a lot of speculation, people are saying Anastasia is actually Aurora (Sleeping Beauty). Maybe Anastasia was her Storybrooke name before the curse was broken? But I was with you when this news broke - Anastasia was never a fairy tale. I suppose we'll see what they do with it! I would love to see a potential showdown between Rumpelstiltskin and Rasputin, though.

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  87. Cadence20 June 2012 at 15:13

    Sure, people committing racist acts in real life are fairly awful people and we should deal with them... but we also have a legal system in place that exists to protect people from that sort of overt racism and discrimination. It isn't anywhere close to perfect (for example, we still have a LONG way to go with regards to figuring out how to deal with bullying) and a LOT can still be done to improve things, but what we DO NOT HAVE AT ALL is a system to deal with institutionalised and implicit discrimination. One of the areas that this is a problem is in media representation. Why would we NOT be looking for problems in any place they can be found?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutionalized_discrimination
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02722011.2011.594518

    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08838159709364392

    http://www.wisecampus.com/uploads/notescans/GENDER,_RACE,_AND_MEDIA_REPRESENTATION.pdf

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  88. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 15:36

    Yeah, sorry I commented before I read all the way through. Thanks for repointing it out. I saw one at the end that postulated that they were the Storybrooke names and I really do like that better. Because as much as they've made animated movies with her, it doesn't follow the spirit of the thing with "fairytale" characters for me. Rasputin is such an interesting figure though, he could be truly creepy and dynamic.

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  89. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 19:07

    I kinda miss seeing who "liked" a comment. I guess I will follow your lead and simply tell people when I do. Good idea!

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  90. lsbloom20 June 2012 at 19:19

    I think it does present a parallel universe problem. Maybe they traveled here unexpectedly and then went back or whatever?

    I do distinguish between "based on" stories and real "famous" people/historical figures who got turned into stories as being different. Having Anastasia as a story is really one step away from a fairytale about the gunman on the grassy knoll IMO. It wasn't long enough ago to become a cultural myth. Pocahontas is even dicey in my mind.

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  91. laura334120 June 2012 at 20:27

    I miss it too! I have two ways of doing it now,that and also if i'm in a rush or have been typing a lot at the end of sentence i wink ;). Even if i put a smile at the end i leave some space then wink...It helps to know,but more so its nice knowing! You know,ha! ;)

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  92. DarthLocke420 June 2012 at 20:37

    what I meant was that racism is about being anti-race, but by saying I am ant- race, I am saying that I am anti against anti-sm (it was meant to be philosophical ironic word play in conjunction to context of words and meanings)


    Criminology is also a hard business, as yes we all believe in "criminals", but what a crimina isl, the levels of criminal behavior, and how we believe in punishing them is where again we dispute.


    Control is another hard one because both the idea of how much control someone has over something is hard (as even in neural science certain amounts addiction is rewiring the neural path ways, and even the other day I heard on NPR this whole thing on people signing for loans in gambling casinos, and if the Casino should be allowed to collect debt, because addiction to gambling may start being viewed as a "disorder"....but yet there are no laws to label that certain people should be seeked out to offer loans to.). And to tell another person who may not be able to control his/her "urges" to kill another is also controlling them, by punishing them and condemning them, as the idea behind law (and/or Religion) is a mandate on how to live, or what rules any given society 'should' live by...


    Another great book by M.F. "Discipline and Punishment".


    Anyways, I have the up most respect for you, Cadence. I always love reading your TV show analysis/reviews, because you are intelligently muti-faceted in your perspective and always politely debate. I think we are generally on the same side here, even if where we draw our lines are different. I don't really have much more to say on the matter of either my Opinion of Once or Racial Diversity, but it has been nice discussing with you.

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  93. Cadence20 June 2012 at 21:47

    Lol, okay, sorry I got so intense :P. I'm usually much better at the civil debate thing without rage, I promise. Thanks for sticking with it! Always a pleasure discussing things with you!

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  94. playdoc21 June 2012 at 20:28

    Sounds interesting. Now that the curse is broken, wouldn't/shouldn't everyone be using their original FTL names? 'Cause I was so hoping not to call Snow "Mary Margaret" anymore. And it'd do wonders to David's character, to be Charming again. That said, I think these recurring characters' names are (or should be) their FTL names. I wonder if Anastasia is the "lost" Russian princess story, and if Magnolia is Once's version of Mulan. And do they mean "feels a connection to the earth and its creatures"? Like, is Magnolia kinda like X-men's Storm & Disney's Snow White combined? Can she control/feel the earth, for reals? Can she commune with creatures? Is she China's "Dr. Doolittle"? ;)

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  95. lsbloom21 June 2012 at 20:38

    Not that this has anything to do with OUAT, but I'm trying the "up!" thing and that makes me feel more positive. But I am not currently fond of the voting down arrow, especially when you don't know who you upset. :-(

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  96. laura334121 June 2012 at 21:04

    I won't touch that down arrow,even if i disagreed with the person.Last night i posted something,somewhere,when i went back because Bruce left me notification i realized everyone that posted got disliked,and some more than once..I left a message "Whats up with the dislikes" not expecting anyone to fess up and sure enough no one did.. Its like when the troll go around after an episode airs and mark awful on the polls..Bruce said as a response it was probably someone trolling..I called them the lowest of the low,they probably laughed at it...

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  97. DarthLocke422 June 2012 at 02:18

    No worries! We're good (:

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  98. Katie Berling23 June 2012 at 00:38

    The crying wolf I was referring to is best explained by this example. My friend and I were out together in a part of the city that has several bars, a movie theatre, and shops. We were there at 10 p.m. After 10 p.m., any minor in the area must be accompanied by an adult or headed straight to the movies. We entered the candy shop where there was one African American boy. The store clerk (who was also African American) told the boy that he could not sell him any items because he was under age.


    We purchased our items and exited at the same time as him. He went to his group, who asked why he didn't have the pop he wanted to buy. He replied that the store would not sell to him because he was black.


    So, I am not referring to less overt racism. I am referring to examples where people (this is all people, not any specific race) blame a situation on racism when it is not true. That is why it is called "crying wolf." These cases take attention away from true cases of racism.


    I hope this clarifies the meaning of the phrase. If you know the myth of the boy who cried wolf, you should be able to figure it out. The story is that the boy repeatedly cried wolf when there wasn't actually a wolf. The townspeople came running to help every time. On the final instance when there was a wolf, no one came to help at his call because they didn't believe him. That is the origin of the phrase my friend uses.


    To me, any case of racism, large or small, needs to be handled. I am targeting cases where people use racism as an excuse. You used the phrase correctly towards the end of your argument, but the part about using it for real examples is not what I was aiming for in this argument. Does this make sense?

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  99. Cadence23 June 2012 at 02:43

    Lol, yes, I understand the concept of crying wolf, but thank you for your explanation anyway. I was attempting to figure out the distinction you were making between what you would call real racism vs. what you would call crying wolf.


    You appear to have claimed that implicit/invisible/institutionalized racism falls under the crying wolf category. Or maybe you do call that real racism, but feel that questions of representation in the media fall under crying wolf. Or maybe it was a comment specific to media representation in OUAT.


    In any case, I'm trying to make the argument that:


    A) Raising questions about media representation is NOT crying wolf.
    B) it appears to be happening on some level with regards to OUAT.
    Now, sure, I'll concede that OUAT is probably nowhere close to the best example of institutionalized discrimination... but I think that dismissing the lack of non-criminal minority characters as crying wolf is problematic.

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