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POLL : What did you think of Game of Thrones - The Old Gods and the New?

7 May 2012

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46 comments:

  1. Murilo Maceda7 May 2012 at 03:07

    I LOVED the twist with the dragons in the end. Keep things interesting even for who read the books. Best episode so far this season.

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  2. I had to get my thoughts down on this episode before they left me, because honestly I just want to forget that.  For as critical as I have been of this season, I feel that this was without a doubt the worst episode.

    The Good (Few):
    - Rodrik Cassel's execution.  Yes, it's different from the book (thankfully Roose indicates that Ramsay lives), but it was well done.  They merged two scenes into one to effectively show Theon's fall.
    - Ygritte. I was afraid she'd be cheesy because of how many mouthy females the show has created, but she was quirky enough to stand out to me.  There are some problems with her sequence, but overall she was very good at what she did.
    - Arya/Tywin.  I look forward to their scenes a lot.  Charles Dance gives some good insight into the character of Tywin, and the stories he told weren't so bad.  Jaime being dyslexic was... interesting.  Tytos being mentioned satisfied the Lannister in me.  
    - Little Bird.
    - Tommen is well characterized. 

    The Meh:
    - Littlefinger showing up.  It required a lot of blindness to let Arya get away with all that she did, but I assume Littlefinger found a cupbearer to be beneath his notice (like a certain Stone down the line with Bronze Yohn Royce).  Anyway, it was just an excessive scene that didn't really do much other than play off a sort of fear he'd recognize her.  Whatever, maybe he did maybe he didn't.
    - Jon's chase scene with Ygritte.  It went too far and took too long.
    - Qhorin was alright, but not great.  
    - Dany's speech.  I didn't dislike it, but she's repeating herself a lot now.  She puts on her puppy eyebrows and does her thing then says FIRE AND BLOOD.  That's about it.  
    - Amory Lorch's demise.  I don't mind a ton it was changed, but damn that chase was silly.  Jaqen made up for it though, but considering all of it I had to say I wasn't satisfied. 
    - Tyrion slapping Joffrey again.  It's lost its charm.  Meryn Trant being a joke is also getting to be a bit tedious.

    The Bad/Boring:
    - Robb/"Jeyne".  Honestly, what the hell? Why is Catelyn meeting her now? Why do we need to go through another silly love side story?
    - Myrcella's send-off.  This was one of my favorite scenes in the book.  "Brotherfucker!"  I can forgive taking that out, but why did they decide to nearly blend Lolys with Sansa? I was very close to quitting the show if THAT went through.  Sansa stepped in at least; however, Sandor came through.  I dislike how they try to divide everyone between each other.  As I recall, Sandor is the one that is ordered to strike someone down, he later saves Sansa.  They did away with the horses and decided to have them walking.  No fetus, but whatever. 
    - Osha.  They stayed relatively true, blended two characters, but so what.  I hate Osha.  What I really hated though was...
    - Osha's tits.  I'm sure Harry Potter fans got a kick out of it.  I didn't need to see that, didn't want to see that, would like to forget I saw that.  
    - Dany's ending scene.  Really, why are they adding in silly things? Just show the House of the Undying and get her out of Qarth. At this point, Dany will have no people left anyway.  

    Anyway, those were my thoughts.  

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  3. Winterfell:
    - Wow Rodrik Cassel's beheading was BRUTAL! Seriously!!
    The change from the books was graphic and intense, but it makes sense. It streamlines the seige of Winterfell a great deal and has a very similar outcome, up to the point of Ser Rodrik's death at least..

    - As far as show-created sex scenes go, Osha seducing Theon to stay alive played well to me! I would take her as a survivor and doing what she needed to get some in position to execute a plan was awesome!


    Harrenhal:
    - Not a huge fan of the scene with Arya hiding as she serves Littlefinger and Tywin..... If Littlefinger is one thing he is observant and I do not see him not noticing a female cupbearer.

    - Now the second Tywin and Arya scene was POWERFUL! 
    "What killed him [your father]?"  Arya answers, "Loyalty."
    Such a true and poignant statement by one so young and delivered so well.


    King's Landing:
    - Joffrey is such a tool! Nay, that is unfair to tools!
    Wow that was another brutal and intense scene with the merchant dismembering! All due to Joffrey's ignorance, pettiness and venom.

    - San/San fans rejoice! Our first true littlebird scene and it was intense! More so than the book scene. Wow!



    The North:
    - Ladies and gentlemen Ygritte!
    Nice scene to welcome miss kissed-by-fire to the series! Rose did a great job and it appears to be yet another brilliant casting!

    - Loved Ygritee gyrating her fur covered derriere against the innocent Jon. I thought the poor boy was going to have a coronary! XD


    Riverlands:
    - I'm still not sure what to make of the new spin on "Jeyne" or as she's know for now, Talisa. It seems odd to me to see a battle commander/ King in the North flirting with a lady as shi tropps rot and suffer......
    - Wait? Roose Bolton's boy? HUZZAH!!


    Qarth:
    It's so odd. I love all the actors on that continent and it is simply beautiful.... and yet most of the scenes fall flat to me.
    - The new scene with Dany's dragons being stolen... harrumpf! Not sure I like where it is going. I am interested to see why they felt they needed to do that exectly. It makes very little sense to me right now honestly....


    This was one briutal episode on many levels for many people! It was also quite possibly the LEAST like the books of any episode thus far. I think the changes were mostly good, but the jury is still out on the new Robb scenes and the new Dany sce for me. I am no book purist, but the Robb/ Jeyne love story is falling flat to me and most of Qarth as well. The dragons being stolen certainly ramps up the drama and intesity in that part of the world I uess. That is a drastic change though and I will have to see how it plays out before I decide whether or not I like the change.

    Overall this was just a "Great" episode for me. The intesity of some scenes was lost  in later scenes and it just did not build up like I think it should have. 

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  4. Although we rate differently, we agree on a lot of points.  Like, almost all of them LOL.

    I found myself glancing away from the screen at times this side, primarily where you also felt things were lacking.  Qarth, Robb/Jeyne... etc.  And yeah, when Ramsay was mentioned I was like "score".

    Do you feel they're keeping Sandor too clean, though? 

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  5. Thsi week's promo stills from HBO.

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  6. I really enjoyed Ygritte! She definitely made me smile a time or five. Whoever cast her did a really great job. I also continue to love Arya's scenes. She's been one of my favorites to watch as she journeys throughout the series, and I can't wait to see where they take her.

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  7. I'm with you on at least half of your comments this time! XD
    This was without doubt the most uneven episode of the season if not the series. 

    I understand changes need to be made to streamline things, but I do not understand making changes just for the sake of changes like in the case of the dragons being stolen. That along with Catelyn meeting Jeyne and Littlefinger not noticing the daughter of the woman he has been obsessed with  his entire life were all jsut bad, bad, BAD scenes.

    I did not mind the Osha scene and inf fact liked it for the most part. The sex was off screen, they edited it down to a minimum and kept the scene flowing and it felt like something that would have happened in the books to me. Likewise I did not mind the Ygritte chase scene, I actually liked it. I loved Jon using the terrain to his advantage and that slide was awesome to me!

    I was also meh about Amory Lorch's death. I did not mind the chase, but the last second blow dart death was so contrived....

    Not sure about the Riverlands changes or Qarth right now..... Both locations definitely lose me every time they re on screen.

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  8. I'm not sure he's too "clean" or civil so much as we just do not see him enough to get the sense of him we got in the books. I guess I would not mind if they made him grittier and dirtied him up a bit, but I think he still comes across as very "un-knightly" despite actually being one of the more chivalrous of Joffrey's inner circle.

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  9. I guess the Osha scene really bugged me because I saw it coming from a mile away.  Like, I could feel HBO going "we haven't shown boobs in awhile, let's fix that."  Other than... well, WAS that Lolys being stripped in that scene? Or just an extra that looked like her?

    The Littlefinger scene... it just felt so very impractical.  When he glanced at her he seemed to realize, but... I mean, is Littlefinger as brilliant as we believe or can he be that dumb? 

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  10. I think there are just small changes.  The episode that GRRM directed in S1 was  more "Sandor" to me.  He doesn't seem creepy in this so much as distant.  I like the character still because he works for what he's doing, but sometimes I wish they let him straddle the line more.  He's supposedly to be blindly loyal to Joffrey, after all. 

    Also, Sansa confiding in Shae like that annoyed me.  She should know better. 

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  11. I saw a bit of that  Osha scene in one of the preseason trailers so I knew it was going to happen sometime. There was really only one logical scenario for it and I guess I liked how it played out.

    Littlefinger seems to teleport around Westeros. One day he's in King's Landing and the next he's at Storm's End and then the next he is in the Riverlands. It is just silly for him to be making the rounds so fast honestly. Each of those journeys should take weeks if not months!

    Unless they make it that Littlefinger did in fact recognize Arya I will be further annoyed by that scene! He is one of the more observant men in Westeros and they have him not noticing one of only 3 people in the room? Moreover not recognizing the daughter of the woman he has been obsessed with his entire life and who's family motivates his every move? Nonsensical!

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  12. I loved this episode, but where's Bronn and Jorah when you need them?

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  13.  r u sure you even like the show
    you seem to be talking down the show and whats happened more than saying anything good

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  14. At this point, the show is an hour to waste before the Borgias come on for me.  I guess I could watch the Killing, but that has commercials.

    I was an avid fan of the first season, but from the start of the second season I felt they were trying to do too much and then adding in their own stuff to make it all the more incomprehensible.  Martin's writing style works because you can take each PoV as a chapter and thus information is evenly distributed.  At this point in the season, they've added in new PoVs and then have to either cut or ignore old ones for the sake of HBO-ing the series.  

    So, I'm critical of the show because it isn't living up to its potential.  It could be much better than it is. 

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  15. Historical_Materialist7 May 2012 at 15:06

    You should quit the show.

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  16. Just like with the 6th episode of last season, the shit hits the fan with this one. Very glad which locations they let rest and concentrate on these ones and how much action-packed they were. And of course finally #YouknowNothingJonSnow appears. :D

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  17. "
    Loved Ygritee gyrating her fur covered derriere against the innocent Jon. I thought the poor boy was going to have a coronary! XD"

    Best description of my thoughts. Felt a bit sorry for Jon as he tried to uphold his oath. XD 

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  18. I'm not going to comment on each of these points, though I do agree with a great deal of them. I just wanted to jump in on Rodrik's beheading. HOLY CRAP. I'm pretty sure my jaw was on the ground for the entirety of it, and after it cut to the next scene, I definitely said, "That is NOT okay..." I think it did a great job of showing just how lost Theon is becoming, though. 

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  19. I got an overdose of my two favorite characters Dany and Jon yet I only voted great. Something fell flat for me (no I'm not a book purist, lessons learned from True Blood, I guess). But unlike True Blood the changes they are making for the most part seem to be OK for me, for now. And they gave me another 'Oh, Theon' moment as well. I enjoy his character in the show but not in the book so I guess they are doing something right over there. 

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  20. Loved Roose convincing Robb to send Ramsay. We miss the little side-story with Reek and the confusion around him, but it's really a great way to introduce the Bastard. Well done, show.

    For the rest, I was really confused about the dragons being kidnapped, but we'll see where that leads next week. Littlefinger is starting to annoy me with his omni-presence. If I remember well from the books, it was always Tyrion's idea to include Margaery in the battle plans so to speak (being careful with my words here), and I don't really know why they're giving that little storyline to Littlefinger. What with the events surrounding Myrcella, I actually think it would be a great place and time in the flow of the story on screen, to let Tyrion broach the subject of Margaery at court.. Ah well, he still had PLENTY to do this week! Like slapping Joff!

    For the rest, holy frak I didn't expect Winterfel to be taken this soon! When Theon stormed into Bran's room in the very first scene, for a second I thought I'd missed an episode! :D But I guess it makes sense and moves the story along nicely (which has been going at breakneck speed all season, really!). Rodrik's death scene broke my heart. Bravo to the actor playing Bran, he really shone there!

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  21. I don't think the problem is that Littlefinger is everywhere so much as a lot happens behind the scenes in the books.  Tywin being a focal point of the season, along with Renly, has given us a chance to see the "building" up to a particular battle, you know?  I have a friend that complained there was a bit of a deus ex machina in that resolution, so maybe the showrunners want to avoid that by showing the set up in detail. 

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  22. That was amazing by far the best episode of the season, all the storylines seemed to click.  

    Isaac Hempstead-Wright was fantastic as Bran, the Stark girls get a lot of praise but often Isaac doesn't but he was so good. From the sassy brave Bran in the first scene to the heartwrenching sorrow in the courtyard.

    I loved that Cat and Robb got to have a small moment of laughter with their reunion, god knows the poor characters need it.

    The whole riot was great, I actually feared for Sansa even though I knew the outcome.  Also that slap was magnificent. Joffrey you little shit.

    I really love the dynamic between Tywin and Arya, at one moment she almost seems happy to be there before Littlefinger turned up.

    Also the North of the Wall scenes are just gorgeous, perfect decision to film it in Iceland

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  23. Not bad.
     - I'm loving Arya's storyline this season.  It just keeps getting better.
     - Osha should have killed Theon in his sleep.  (side note:  I guess being a wildling keeps you in damn good shape)
     - Poor Sansa.  That girl lives a miserable existence.
     - Ygritte...  what can I say about Ygritte?  I mean, wow.  She's going to be a handful.
     - More Joffrey slapping please.  Maybe next time do it with a glove from a suit of armor.
     - Dany's dragons are stolen?  Ugh.  I already dislike this lame subplot.  Hell, Dany's entire season so far has been a bore.  It has been an entire season of Dany angrily, repeatedly, and pointlessly proclaiming who she is and what she's owed by birthright.
     - The Robb/Talisa stuff was pleasant enough but seemed like empty filler all the same.
     - Shae's advice to Sansa was spot on but do I sense her beginning to resent Tyrion?

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  24. I think Dany's storyline would be great if they just showed the House of Undying.  A lot of Dany's appeal in ACOK is learning more about her destiny, not watching her go door to door.  

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  25.  Yeah, I think the writers may be taking the wrong approach to her story this season.

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  26. They are doing a great job of building up to a certain battle indeed. All the players' stories are nicely fleshed out, but still, I don't remember Littlefinger being so instrumental and scheming from the books to this particular line of stories. But yeah you're probably spot on with your reasoning. A lot of Littlefinger's doings are subtext, behind the scenes and third person interformation in the books. Mysterious Petyr Baelish :-)

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  27. Wright was breathtakingly fantastic in this episode!

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  28. So is it safe to say that the people that read the books didn't like it as much but the "newbies" (like me) who didn't liked it?

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  29. I'm not sure honestly...
    There are a lot of book readers that loved the episode. I think it comes down to how people handle contrived scenes more than anything. 

    To me this was a very "Hollywood" episode, the least like the books and the rest of the series. For some scenes it worked and for others it just fell apart to me. Some people don't even notice that and it runs off them like water off of a duck's back.

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  30. I was shocked Theon took Winterfell this early too!

    I guess if you take episode 9 as almost entirely taking place in King's Landing, that leaves 3 episodes.  I cannot see 3 episodes of activity at Winterfell without Reek or the Reeds. I guess they can tweak or extend a scene or two and then not show Winterfell for an episode or two maybe....

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  31. The series has done a great job showing Theon's evolution, I think better than the books frankly.

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  32.  Fair enough. :)
    I agree with a lot of people that I hated the scene with Littlefinger. It just wasn't that believable. I was nervous for Arya, but I felt that it was just too ingenuous.

    And I'm not sold on the dragons being stolen but it has some potential I suppose.

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  33. I have no doubt that Littlefinger recognized Arya. I think he's just holding his cards for the right moment.

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  34. I hope so!

    It makes no sense for one of the most paranoid and observant men in Westeros to not notice one of only two other people in the room.

    If he did in fact notice who she was my opinion of the scene changes some , but not entirely. I still think the scene played out like something from I Love Lucy with Arya as Lucy trying to hide herself while waiting on Ricky.

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  35. Let's hope that after the House of the Undying she will have a sense of fate and destiny and not be such shouty brat!

    She's gone from learning on her own that her brother was a buffoon and that cruelty and threats are not the most effective means to achieve one's desires.... to shouting idle threats every time she does not get her way. She's coming off less of a deserving and destined heiress and more a privileged and clueless princess.

    Given her circumstances such as they are (what she has 3 bloodriders, a shamed knight and whatever remains of her ragtag khalasar after the massacre at Xaro's) one would think she would try to use reason and seduction (be it physical or mental) to reach her goals.

    I was never a huge fan of Daenerys in the books, but I liked her journey and how she matured and usually learned from experiences... and her brother's mistakes. Series Dany is quite the opposite, just demanding things because she is the Mother of Dragons. She's MORE unlikable than book Daenerys to me surprisingly.

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  36. Right on.

    It's just how we perceive things really. Many people found the Littlefinger scene, Lorch's death scene and Robb and "talisa's" flirting as fun and clever. I thought all those scenes were all too cute by half, contrived and very "un-book-like".

    They were Dsiney-fied to me and I jsut don;t care for my dramas to be that way.... I will admit that other than the Littlefinger scene they were all done quite well. Just not to my personal taste.

    I have a feeling when I watch this after some time has passed I will enjoy the episode more and not notice or care about the LF scene or Lorch's death scene. I also think I may like the dragon theft and Jon letting Ygritte escape only to have to run her down more after the next episode airs. 

    I have a good deal of faith in D&D (although not Venssa Taylor) and think that the changes must have a point to them and not be change s just for the sake of change.

    I hope in Season 3 Bryan Cogman who wrote two of my favorite episodes (1x04 Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things and 2x03 What is Dead May Never Die) and far less Vanessa Taylor who wrote two of my LEAST favorite episodes of the series (2x04 Garden of Bones and 2x06 Old Gods and the New). I think Cogman has a much better grasp on the books and the saga in general.

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  37. I liked Theon in the book, so I could be missing the magic of the transition.  I think it's because I don't automatically see Ned Stark as the "good guy" so I understood why it was Theon disliked how he was never made his son.  The book conveyed that better, IMO.  Though Bran's "did you always hate us?" was a good touch. 

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  38. The big issue with the Talisa or whatever storyline is that Robb is supposed to meet Jeyne while he was away from Catelyn and free to make a young man's mistakes.  Instead, his mother's like "yeah, don't you do that!" and he's still going to do it, which just makes him an idiot. 
    I miss sweet, innocent Jeyne as well.  

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  39. I was always a Dany fan.  I think what won me over is that in AGOT (the book), Khal Drogo had that "No?" "No?" scene with her and she finally went "Yes".  They took that out of the show and from that moment on I was a little disappointed, but this season...
    I get she doesn't have big sword fights or much magic or what have you, but they really aren't doing anything.  They've killed off her bloodriders and her khalasar.  All she has now is... not even her dragons.  And yeah, she's very unlikable even if EC is a very good actress.

    As for the seduction, I think Xaro was trying to teach her not to be stubborn.  She should have slept with the merchant for one ship.  Is it the most honorable thing to do? No, but as he said he had to do very dishonorable things to get where he is. 

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  40. This episode was... interesting. Honestly I'm not sure what I think about it.

    Things I loved/liked:
    - Winterfell scenes. It was heartbreaking to see Bran yield, but man, these scenes were intense. Ser Rodrik's execution scene was brilliant and meaningful and honestly I don't even remember what was changed from the books here. Am I right to recall a scene where Theon did have to struggle with executing someone with one swing of the sword or is it my imagination? Anyways, Theon is such a poor pathetic son of a bitch that I almost feel for him. I mean, I could if I didn't hate him that much :P

    - Arya/Tywin scenes - I still think this whole situation makes Tywin look like an ignorant idiot for still not noticing his cupbearer is not what she claims she is, but well, their talks have been great stuff so far. I even didn't mind Littlefinger there, it was actually interesting. My money is on that they made him actually recognize her and I'm curious what they're going to do with that in the future.

    - Tyrion during the mob situation and the Sansa rescue - I love Tyrion at all times, but when he's pissed, he's even better. Poor guy is so helpless when it comes to Joffrey, though. All his efforts are just a waste of time with that kid. I actually liked the way they altered the Sansa part of it, I mean, with no horses in the scene they couldn't simply have a man pull her off her saddle and the Hound putting her back in. They got creative, they took a risk of an almost rape of a teenager, but I loved the final result. As for the controversial SanSan, well, I can only regret they got to it so late in the series, with practically no build up. They cut this interesting relationship so short I cannot blame the non-readers for not knowing why people would actually ship this "pairing". But yay for the "little bird" appearing, at last.

    - Roose Bolton talking about his bastard. At least now people know the Boltons will play a role later on.

    Things I'm not sure I liked or not:
    - Ygritte and the beyond the Wall storyline. Honestly, I loved Jon's parts when they were at Craster's, but after he teamed up with Qhorin they somehow got a bit unimpressive. I await the scene where Jon "proves himself", though. As for Ygritte, not sure if I like her yet, but I loved her gyrating herself against Jon. Loved Jon's confusion too, poor guy ;)

    - Osha. I think I don't mind her but I really didn't need that much of her in this episode.

    - Qarth scenes - mostly because I really don't care about Dany anymore. She's way too "I'm Daenerys, titles, titles, so give me what I want". She really does come across as a spoiled brat who knows shit about the world and the war she's willing to fight, but well, that's what she was in the books too, so I guess the adaptation is good here.

    - Jaqen - normally I love him, but the whole "kill him before he tells Tywin" situation was rather silly.

    Things I didn't (or don't) like:
    - the thing they had them walk instead of ride horses during the mob scene. It looked somehow small this way

    - the thing they had Myrcella cry - "The girl never wept. Young as she was, Myrcella Baratheon was a princess born"

    - Robb/Jeyne (Talisa???) - I honestly have no clue what they're doing whatever it is they're doing to Jeyne's character. I mean, is she even Jeyne Westerling still, or really just Talisa from Volantis? And why the hell did Catelyn meet her? the whole point was that seing her for the first time was such a huge shock for Catelyn, right? Now the ultimate scene for Cat will be like: yeah, I saw it coming, whatever.

    - I know it's not just the disadvantage of this one episode, but I still can't recover from not having the Reeds there. How will they split now anyways? Who's going to go with Rickon? I hope they come to their senses and cast at least Jojen for season 3, the lack of him, his knowlegde and his green dreams is riddiculous.

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  41. I think "SanSan" really gains legs in A Feast for Crows when something is "misremembered". For the most part at this point in the story it's simply Sansa watching him not be as cruel as the others.  

    I also miss the Reeds.  My brother just caught up on the episodes last night and went "WHERE ARE MY FROGMEN?" So I mean, yeah.  There are some people that find this Luwin/Osha farce to be silly. 

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  42. Yeah I really don't see how they could have Winterfell story for 3 episodes either! But if they don't show Winterfell for some episodes, I don't get why they had Theon take it so early. Unless the Bastard needs his introduction, but I don't actually know if he's been cast?

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  43. Hmmm.....Theon took Winterfell a little quicker than I expected. And Bran escaped a little quicker that I expected too. But I loved Bran in this episode. his reactions seemed very real, very well acted. I´m missing the Reeds a bit, but let´s wait and see how it works out. I like Osha, but I´m not sure she can carry the big part.

    Loved Tyrion slapping joffrey, boy do I wish he had given him a couple more. He was brilliant!

    Ygritte seemed to fit her part. 

    What the hell was going on with Cat being with Robb??!! That just really confused me. Didn´t like it one bit!

    I don´t really know what to say about Dany´s story. Didn´t like it in the books, don´t like it on TV.
    Last season was better for her. I like Mormont though, but as he wasn´t really in this episode....not so exciting. 

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  44. All i can say is i loved when Tyrion slapped Joffey,to bad he didn't get in a few more Joffey deserves it! I would imagine many viewers cheered Tyrion on at that moment,i know i did..

    I still feel like a fish out of water here,just floundering around,forgetting names and which house this one belongs to,that is why my comments are nil compared to everyone else..But you guys are guys & gals are great and i enjoying reading them all!  :)

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