"Pull my finger" So, he has like a...sense of humor now or is he like ...well, crazy? Anyway, it's nice to see him again, with the boys. And LOL at Dean's face! ;) And Cas' smiling!
Okay, I don't like Cas dumbed down for really any reason, but that /was/ funny. Poor Crazy!Cas indeed! Haha at the angel-powered fart. >8D
But..still, I'm mixed feelings about this. I really hope he regains /himself/ before the end of it. *facepalms again at Crazy!Cas* They're right, this is definitely a version we haven't seen before.
Only Sam would show that much compassion and empathy getting almost teary eyed seeing the man whose only suffered a fraction of what Castile did to him. Castile knowingly using him (and Dean) to start the apoclaypse, wanting to leave his soul in the cage and pushing dean to do so and breaking Sam's head intentionally knowing it could kill him.
what in hell happen castiel new creapy power sound kinki ,evil & dangerous and that laugh or smile is like a evil child knowing this could be fun & sam and dean face exprecions means is not good.
What is it with all that blaming bobby's dead on Cass? While you're at it you can blame Mary for Sam's dead, after all she made the deal with teh YED which lead Sam to be in the town which lead to his dead. it goes as far as you want
I don't know. Maybe that's because Sam is a decent person who believes in redemption and forgiveness, especially considering that he's done pretty bad things himself that he had to atone for. In other words, Sam's not a hypocrite.
lol that was funny. I do hope Castiel regains himself at some point, but I can live with crazy Cas for awhile. Something tells me Misha will be quite adept at playing a crazy guy with a childlike sense of humor. ;)
I'm feeling so many things right now... I don't know whether to laugh or to cry, since he's clearly lost it. Mostly, I suppose I'm just excited to see Misha interpret yet another version of Castiel. This is going to be an interesting one!
You know, I was thinking the same thing haha.. they may have actually given Misha a character to portray that's pretty close to his real life persona.. I love it!
Cas does have a lot to make up for. That's a fact and there is nothing wrong with saying that. There's no need to accuse fans of lacking compassion for stating a fictional character has a lot to atone for.
I'm a Sam girl and if Sam's ok with Cas then I'm ok with Cas. I choose to be the bigger an better person just like Sam and forgive and forget. Besides I hate the fact that so many Dean fans are still bitching about Sam doing Dean wrong, not being able to get over so I dont intend to turn around and behave like them. You dont have to like Cas lord knows I'm not his biggest fan but I am not going to sit here bitching about all the shit he's done. He wants redemption which and he is actually sorry so let him get on with earning it. Like I said as long as Sam is ok with him so am I.
I know a lot of fans talk about how Sam cant be mad at Cas because he himself has done wrong in the past but I also think its an important character development for Cas.I actually think this is a massive lesson for Cas, he was very quick to judge Sam when he did wrong but now he's been there himself maybe its a lesson in humility and how not to be self righteous. An important progression in Cas's character. Makes him more human and more likeable.
I'm wondering now if we're going to see a different, new Cas for each of the episodes he's on. We got Emanuel last time, now we have crazy Cas. Misha plays very odd characters so well - they might as well take advantage of it.
Why are you blaming Castiel for Sam starting the apocalypse, when he was the one who tried to get Dean there in time to stop it. Castiel believed that the angels were on the right side of this fight and he was following orders. When he finally came to realize the truth, he did what he could to stop it. So I don't blame Castiel for that, but Zachariah was the one behind that along with some of the other angels. He wanted to leave the soul in hell, because he was afraid that the wall wouldn't hold and kill Sam in some other way.
I am mad at him for breaking Sam's wall, but as someone already pointed out that Sam has forgiven him for what he did, then I who am I to hold it against Castiel.
I feel the same way haha... I was giggling at him throughout the sneak peek, then I came to a pretty abrupt halt and was like, "Wait... am I really laughing at him right now?!" It was a weird realization!
Absolutely agree with you there, well said! One of the reasons why I like that Sam and Cas downfall is so similar it's because of this, Cas didn't quite understand back then what Sam was going through and now he's literally going through all that himself. I love Dean and Cas friendship and I hope it can get back as close as how it was before as possible... but I'm personally even more interested to see how Cas and Sam friendship will be developed now, I think they now can understand each other in a way that Dean can't, at least not completely, and that's why imo Sam is more capable to offer his forgiveness, I really hope that's explored.
I don't think what he's done should be shoved under a rug. I think what he's done should be addressed and he should suffer for it...which he is, continuously, in each episode.
None of the boys seem to hate him. Dean probably has yet to forgive him, but he has at least accepted that he's not evil. Yet there are viewers who would probably be very happy to see him hunted and killed.
I think those who still view Castiel as a bad guy after its so obviously stated that everything he's ever done were for good intentions and that he regrets even those things, and is suffering for them, and yet still despise him for his past actions, lack compassion.
I really don't see how it's all shoved under the rug... Back in S6 he was not absolved when it was discovered that he was working with Crowley, they were MAD at him (rightfully so)... they confronted him and later fought him because they knew what he was doing was wrong... they were not 'oh Cas, it's OK, let's help you out' or anything like that.. now, on S7 he's started to suffer the consequences of his acts by taking on himself the suffering he caused to Sam... and judging by the promo, I'm pretty sure punishment from the angels is soon to come. So why do you guys keep insisting in that Cas is gonna get a free out-of-jail card?? I don't get it.
His punishment/redemption may not be taking a lot of screentime like Sam's did for his actions in S4 because then you would be complaining about Cas taking time away from the brothers, but I don't think the time he's on screen looks like butterflies and rainbows for him lol.
same with me can hardly wait but instead of watching live im going to AVENGERS! Much more wanting to see instead and i hope the rating doesnt drop too much.
Only on Supernatural you can laugh and get heartboken in the same minute lol... I think this season Sam is really starting to become my favourite above Dean, and that's never happened before (I still love and worship Dean though lol) but seriously, I can't believe what a precious human being this man is... gah, so in love with his reaction to see Cas seemingly OK, despite everything.
Gosh, poor Dean though... for a second there he got a sincere smile on his face but his happiness was quickly crashed T___T Damn you writers, give the boy (and me!) a break, will you?
Also, Cas, your craziness is ridiculously adorable, seriously. Oh and, Ben Edlund, you are a freaking genius, can't wait to see the whole episode!
I don't think he had good intentions in season 6. He was drunk on power and perhaps convinced himself he had good intentions to justify his actions but i never thought anyone who slaughtered people or broke Sam's wall had good intentions. I really don't remember it being stated he had good intentions, that's just what some fans took away from it. I thought the show couldn't have been more clear that he had taken a dark turn and therefore his intentions were twisted. If his intentions truly were good and he never doubted that, why keep it from Sam and Dean? I don't buy it.
For me, it's a step in the right direction but he still hasn't suffered the way Sam has, I need to see a little more. I don't see it as lacking compassion, that's pretty extreme to say over a fictional character.There's no need to get so personal. They simply disagree. I see people who have more sympathy for Cas than they ever did for Sam after Cas broke his wall.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not convinced that the only reason Cas wanted to leave Sam's soul in hell was because he was concerned about Sam. After all, RoboSam was a great asset to Crowley and him - an asset they lost when Sam got his soul back.
Cas didn't want the Winchesters to be involved with Crowley at all. He said that explicitly in "The Man Who Would Be King" - Crowley suggested that Cas get Sam and Dean to hunt alphas and Cas said no. Cas didn't care what kind of "asset" Sam was, he didn't want to use him.
Well, then you should probably rewatch "The Man Who Would Be King"... He stays pretty clearly that he intended to stop Raphael and stop the apocalypse from happening again and he didn't have any way to do it, before Crowley showed him an alternative to fight back. He made wrong choice to follow Crowley's plan and he was proud enough to think he could stop Raphael by himself, but his heart was not in the wrong place. He hide his actions from Sam and Dean because deep down he knew he should have never accepted the deal with Crowley because of the consequences it was creating and how it was corrupting him, but he also felt he was too deep in to turn back once he realized that. But he never doubted his intentions were good and neither the brothers or Bobby doubted them... they just judged and fought the way he went about it, not what he was trying to achieve.
You may get a different interpretation than what was shown in the series and what the writers explained if you prefer, but don't be surprised if the story that unfolds don't much your interpretation of what was going on with Cas in S6 then.
Yes, yes, and yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one who would like the Cas/Sam friendship developed more. There's so much potential to explore both of these characters on a deeper level because of their perspectives and parallel journeys.
And it's not just because they both fell, although that's a big part of it. There's also that Sam used to have faith, but he ended up the vessel of a fallen angel. Cas was agent of Heaven but is now a fallen angel. I'm sure Sam has questions that Cas could answer. Sam used to have questions, anyway.
In turn, Sam could help Cas learn about human redemption. Cas comes from a culture where there's no forgiveness if you fall. Sam could help him understand what it means to have a human soul and spend most of your life falling, only to keep get back up again.
I agree with you for the most part, but I'm going to nitpick a couple of parts. I don't think Cas ever doubted that fighting for free will, or fighting against the Apocalypse, was right. But I think he did start to doubt his intentions on some level and started to question whether he was becoming corrupted and ruled by pride. I think that's part of the reason he seemed so suspicious around Sam. The other angels and Crowley had told Cas that was chosen by God to save them. If he couldn't save Sam like he originally thought he had, then that was a sign that Cas wasn't really working on God's behalf anymore. And if he admitted that to himself, that would cast doubt on his other battles that he was waging in God's name (believing that God wanted the angels to have free will). And at that point, he was too invested.
But let's be realistic here. Castiel and Sam weren't exactly best pals in seasons 4 and 5, but I don't remember watching a single scene with just the two of them. That didn't happen in season 6 either. I think the writers are simply incapable of writing such scenes, or just don't care that there's a friendship that desperately need developing here. You can't just have them say "he's my friend" once or twice every season when they're not even in the same room. It needs to be shown on screen, Sam and Cass need to interact. They have so much in common now. Not going down that path would a waste of potentiel greatness.
I loved how Sam used Cas's full name. It's so respectful. It reminds me of early season 4 when Sam was treating angels with reverence while Dean was calling them douchbags.
I think that in S5 they truly developed a friendship, not as close as Dean and Cas, but I really felt that they cared about each other and actually I felt like Cas ended up admiring Sam by the end of that season and being the first one to believe that he was actually strong enough to pull through with his plan to stop Lucifer.
I hoped to see more in S6 but all that developement was completely screwed for the sake of fitting the souless Sam plot that really didn't go nowhere. But oh well, the past is the past, and I actually think there could be something great coming out of that mess and maybe we have more foundation as to why a friendship between Sam and Cas just needs to be more explored.
Yeah, like I said, I think proud was definately one of the reasons that made Cas take some of his wrong choices but not in a 'he just started a civil war against Raphael because he was an angry power bastard who just wanted to be ruling Heaven, and he used the stop the apocalypse excuse for that' that a couple of posters here seem to get out of it, but more like he ended up believing in what Crowley and other angels believed, that God may had brought him back to keep fighting for free will in his name, like the Winchesters did. And yeah, you made a good point in that he doubted at some point if he was guided by his proud when he made some of his choices, but one thing is to be guided by his proud and another is that your main objective is to feed your ego or feed your lust for power like some posters think, imo, I don't think that was ever Cas' intention and I don't think he ever considered that.
Ben has to have Sam forgiving Castiel there really isnt a another option with this.Otherwise it would be another thing held against Sam has people are so ready to point out Sam was forgiven for all his sins so how can Sam be upset towards Cas .
It is the nature of the show and the situation Eric and the writers put Sam in since season 4 he cant get angry or upset otherwise he is a hypocrite for doing it .Compassion is a easy word to throw around but there wasnt much of it for Sam in season 4 and the aftermath but then Eric didnt help with his negative statment at the end of the season..
If Sam feels compassion towards Cas then all power to him that is why he is the person he is but do fans have a obligation to feel it ? do I have compassion for Cas ? honestly I dont know , I dont hate him or require some terrible punishment rained on him but if it is hard for some to get past Sam's hurts with Dean ( not here) then surely it is to be expected that others might find it hard to forgive the cruelty that Cas did to Sam despite the transference of Sam's crazy?.
I'll keep that in mind anytime someone brings up season 4 in every single Sam vs Dean discussion. I still don't understand the idea that someone who doesn't instantly forgive someone lacks compassion. Especially since you are using a fan's comment to define the term.
Oh don't worry I'm not surprised. The writer are Cas fanboys. And in all honesty, I could barely sit through The Man Who Would be King it was so terrible.
Most people never want to see themselves as the bad guy. They will always believe they have good intentions and try to rationalize what they're doing. So Cas believing he had good intentions means nothing.
Except when the intentions ARE good, or do you consider wanting to stop the apocalypse from being restarted and saving the world is a bad thing? As i said, he chose wrong HOW to stop it and lots of his actions were wrong, and that's why he has a lot to atone for... because the end doesn't justify the means, but those good intentions it's what differences him from characters like Crowley or Meg, and why i don't consider him evil. So to me, to judge if a character is evil or not despite his actions, intentions mean everything.
I know how much you hate Castiel since you remind it in every single post, so i totally understand why TMWWBK is not your cup of tea, but to completely ignore what the writers showed in that episode to keep holding on the kind of character you want Castiel to be and then accuse the writers of being Cas fanboys because they don't write the character like you want them to it's pretty unfair.
No they're Cas fanboys because the last two seasons have been more about Cas than the brothers. For example, season 6 was ultimately revealed to be all about his betrayal and Sam's storyline was handed over to him this season. I don't even care it that's unfair or not. I think it's unfair to the main stars to keep giving more attention to supporting characters and many of the fans are dissatisfied with it.
I'm not ignoring it at all. It was pretty obvious Cas himself was questioning his own actions. He was beginning to doubt himself. I wasn't talking about intentions not meaning anything, I meant a CHARACTER'S PERSPECTIVE on their own intentions meaning nothing. It's too biased.
By the way I don't think he's evil, just because I don't like him or I'm not convinced his intentions were good, does not automatically mean I think he's evil. I don't think he's necessarily good. i'm sure the writers will reveal him to be though since as I said they are Cas fanboys.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
LOL. Poor Crazy!Cas. I loved him blowing out the power and not farting like I thought where it was leading.
ReplyDelete"Pull my finger" So, he has like a...sense of humor now or is he like ...well, crazy?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it's nice to see him again, with the boys.
And LOL at Dean's face! ;) And Cas' smiling!
Whaaaa... okay.
ReplyDeleteI'm kind of giggling.
Misha is so adorable. I want to snuggle him.
Okay, I don't like Cas dumbed down for really any reason, but that /was/ funny. Poor Crazy!Cas indeed! Haha at the angel-powered fart. >8D
ReplyDeleteBut..still, I'm mixed feelings about this. I really hope he regains /himself/ before the end of it. *facepalms again at Crazy!Cas* They're right, this is definitely a version we haven't seen before.
Looks like Crazy Cas will be a lots of fun ;)
ReplyDeleteLOL. That was not what I thought he was heading for. Cas laughing is new. Poor Dean. lol I can hardly wait until Friday night. That was awesome.
ReplyDeleteStarting to get a Hannibal Lecter feel for dear ole Cas.
ReplyDeleteMeg can do the John Belushi eyebrow thingy!
Only Sam would show that much compassion and empathy getting almost teary eyed seeing the man whose only suffered a fraction of what Castile did to him. Castile knowingly using him (and Dean) to start the apoclaypse, wanting to leave his soul in the cage and pushing dean to do so and breaking Sam's head intentionally knowing it could kill him.
ReplyDeletewhat in hell happen castiel new creapy power sound kinki ,evil & dangerous and that laugh or smile is like a evil child knowing this could be fun & sam and dean face exprecions means is not good.
ReplyDeleteI liked it.
ReplyDeleteI love how Meg's like,"Yeah, this is pretty normal everyday stuff with him." LOL
ReplyDeleteWhat is it with all that blaming bobby's dead on Cass? While you're at it you can blame Mary for Sam's dead, after all she made the deal with teh YED which lead Sam to be in the town which lead to his dead. it goes as far as you want
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Maybe that's because Sam is a decent person who believes in redemption and forgiveness, especially considering that he's done pretty bad things himself that he had to atone for. In other words, Sam's not a hypocrite.
ReplyDeletelol that was funny. I do hope Castiel regains himself at some point, but I can live with crazy Cas for awhile. Something tells me Misha will be quite adept at playing a crazy guy with a childlike sense of humor. ;)
ReplyDeleteOh I wouldnt worry he wont get a insta fix then be alright.They didnt shift Sam;s story to him and not milk it for all it's worth.
ReplyDeleteOMG He's truly lost it! Gah I love this in a horrible masochistic way! lol
ReplyDeletelol! Who knew angels could fart? I'm liking what I'm seeing, Cas with a sense of humor
ReplyDeleteHaha. Crazy Cas is hilarious! lol Though it's kinda creepy at the same time cause he's too serious about it all. XD
ReplyDeleteAWESOME sneak peek with Cas!
ReplyDeleteWell... At least he's still got his trench coat...
ReplyDeleteAnybody caught Dean's first line ? I can't hear what he's saying.
ReplyDeleteI'm feeling so many things right now... I don't know whether to laugh or to cry, since he's clearly lost it. Mostly, I suppose I'm just excited to see Misha interpret yet another version of Castiel. This is going to be an interesting one!
ReplyDeleteYou're right - she had that tolerant smile on like "Yeah, it's nothing I haven't seen before..."
ReplyDeleteSomething like: "I raced all the way here, now I don't know, I can't say I'm fired up to see what's left of the guy."
ReplyDeleteYou know, I was thinking the same thing haha.. they may have actually given Misha a character to portray that's pretty close to his real life persona.. I love it!
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's only the some of the fans audience who lack the compassion to at least accept he's still a good guy.
ReplyDeleteCas does have a lot to make up for. That's a fact and there is nothing wrong with saying that. There's no need to accuse fans of lacking compassion for stating a fictional character has a lot to atone for.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Sam girl and if Sam's ok with Cas then I'm ok with Cas. I choose to be the bigger an better person just like Sam and forgive and forget. Besides I hate the fact that so many Dean fans are still bitching about Sam doing Dean wrong, not being able to get over so I dont intend to turn around and behave like them. You dont have to like Cas lord knows I'm not his biggest fan but I am not going to sit here bitching about all the shit he's done. He wants redemption which and he is actually sorry so let him get on with earning it. Like I said as long as Sam is ok with him so am I.
ReplyDeleteexactly
ReplyDeleteI know a lot of fans talk about how Sam cant be mad at Cas because he himself has done wrong in the past but I also think its an important character development for Cas.I actually think this is a massive lesson for Cas, he was very quick to judge Sam when he did wrong but now he's been there himself maybe its a lesson in humility and how not to be self righteous. An important progression in Cas's character. Makes him more human and more likeable.
I'm wondering now if we're going to see a different, new Cas for each of the episodes he's on. We got Emanuel last time, now we have crazy Cas. Misha plays very odd characters so well - they might as well take advantage of it.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more with your comment about Cas development.
ReplyDeletePride was definitively one of is sins.
Well said!
It would be totally understandable for Sam to be mad at Cas. A lesser person probably would be, but Sam isn't that kind of man.
Cas: "This is a vessel. My true form is approximately the size of your Chrysler Building" Dean: "alright, quit bragging"
Why are you blaming Castiel for Sam starting the apocalypse, when he was the one who tried to get Dean there in time to stop it. Castiel believed that the angels were on the right side of this fight and he was following orders. When he finally came to realize the truth, he did what he could to stop it. So I don't blame Castiel for that, but Zachariah was the one behind that along with some of the other angels. He wanted to leave the soul in hell, because he was afraid that the wall wouldn't hold and kill Sam in some other way.
ReplyDeleteI am mad at him for breaking Sam's wall, but as someone already pointed out that Sam has forgiven him for what he did, then I who am I to hold it against Castiel.
He is adorable! I hate to contradict Misha but he's definitively more "adorable as a kitten" than "awesome as a tiger"
ReplyDelete;-D
the starting of the apocalypse was more of a collective collaboration, everyone played a part. Sam, Dean, Cas etc but past is past.
ReplyDeleteYour last sentence is where I'm at.
I feel the same way haha... I was giggling at him throughout the sneak peek, then I came to a pretty abrupt halt and was like, "Wait... am I really laughing at him right now?!" It was a weird realization!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree with you there, well said! One of the reasons why I like that Sam and Cas downfall is so similar it's because of this, Cas didn't quite understand back then what Sam was going through and now he's literally going through all that himself. I love Dean and Cas friendship and I hope it can get back as close as how it was before as possible... but I'm personally even more interested to see how Cas and Sam friendship will be developed now, I think they now can understand each other in a way that Dean can't, at least not completely, and that's why imo Sam is more capable to offer his forgiveness, I really hope that's explored.
ReplyDeleteI didn't except that twist!
ReplyDeleteAngelic Cas without his sanity. It's like a nuclear powered ship in the hand of a three year old.
The boys will have to tread carefully.
aawww at Dean hopeful face and Sam warm "hello Castiel"
I don't think what he's done should be shoved under a rug. I think what he's done should be addressed and he should suffer for it...which he is, continuously, in each episode.
ReplyDeleteNone of the boys seem to hate him. Dean probably has yet to forgive him, but he has at least accepted that he's not evil. Yet there are viewers who would probably be very happy to see him hunted and killed.
I think those who still view Castiel as a bad guy after its so obviously stated that everything he's ever done were for good intentions and that he regrets even those things, and is suffering for them, and yet still despise him for his past actions, lack compassion.
And I believe that is a honest statement.
yes for another version of Cas!
ReplyDeleteI guess that version is a loose underwear* version ;-)
*ref to Misha JIB response concerning is trick to play so many versions of Cas)
I really don't see how it's all shoved under the rug... Back in S6 he was not absolved when it was discovered that he was working with Crowley, they were MAD at him (rightfully so)... they confronted him and later fought him because they knew what he was doing was wrong... they were not 'oh Cas, it's OK, let's help you out' or anything like that.. now, on S7 he's started to suffer the consequences of his acts by taking on himself the suffering he caused to Sam... and judging by the promo, I'm pretty sure punishment from the angels is soon to come. So why do you guys keep insisting in that Cas is gonna get a free out-of-jail card?? I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteHis punishment/redemption may not be taking a lot of screentime like Sam's did for his actions in S4 because then you would be complaining about Cas taking time away from the brothers, but I don't think the time he's on screen looks like butterflies and rainbows for him lol.
uhhhh that was wierd lol Cas laughing that kinda freaked me out a little. but im glad he's back...sorta....
ReplyDeleteHahaha it's so funny you bring that up... I just caught video of JIBcon today... that was hilarious!
ReplyDeletesame with me can hardly wait but instead of watching live im going to AVENGERS! Much more wanting to see instead and i hope the rating doesnt drop too much.
ReplyDeleteOnly on Supernatural you can laugh and get heartboken in the same minute lol... I think this season Sam is really starting to become my favourite above Dean, and that's never happened before (I still love and worship Dean though lol) but seriously, I can't believe what a precious human being this man is... gah, so in love with his reaction to see Cas seemingly OK, despite everything.
ReplyDeleteGosh, poor Dean though... for a second there he got a sincere smile on his face but his happiness was quickly crashed T___T Damn you writers, give the boy (and me!) a break, will you?
Also, Cas, your craziness is ridiculously adorable, seriously. Oh and, Ben Edlund, you are a freaking genius, can't wait to see the whole episode!
I don't think he had good intentions in season 6. He was drunk on power and perhaps convinced himself he had good intentions to justify his actions but i never thought anyone who slaughtered people or broke Sam's wall had good intentions. I really don't remember it being stated he had good intentions, that's just what some fans took away from it. I thought the show couldn't have been more clear that he had taken a dark turn and therefore his intentions were twisted. If his intentions truly were good and he never doubted that, why keep it from Sam and Dean? I don't buy it.
ReplyDeleteFor me, it's a step in the right direction but he still hasn't suffered the way Sam has, I need to see a little more. I don't see it as lacking compassion, that's pretty extreme to say over a fictional character.There's no need to get so personal. They simply disagree. I see people who have more sympathy for Cas than they ever did for Sam after Cas broke his wall.
Or the smile of the cat who swallowed the proverbial canary.
ReplyDeleteFor Misha, that would be "being" not "playing" ;-)
ReplyDeleteScrubs and a trench coat. There's a new fashion trend.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not convinced that the only reason Cas wanted to leave Sam's soul in hell was because he was concerned about Sam. After all, RoboSam was a great asset to Crowley and him - an asset they lost when Sam got his soul back.
ReplyDeleteOoookay then. That was just odd. It's good to see Meg though.
ReplyDeleteCas didn't want the Winchesters to be involved with Crowley at all. He said that explicitly in "The Man Who Would Be King" - Crowley suggested that Cas get Sam and Dean to hunt alphas and Cas said no. Cas didn't care what kind of "asset" Sam was, he didn't want to use him.
ReplyDeleteWell, then you should probably rewatch "The Man Who Would Be King"... He stays pretty clearly that he intended to stop Raphael and stop the apocalypse from happening again and he didn't have any way to do it, before Crowley showed him an alternative to fight back. He made wrong choice to follow Crowley's plan and he was proud enough to think he could stop Raphael by himself, but his heart was not in the wrong place. He hide his actions from Sam and Dean because deep down he knew he should have never accepted the deal with Crowley because of the consequences it was creating and how it was corrupting him, but he also felt he was too deep in to turn back once he realized that. But he never doubted his intentions were good and neither the brothers or Bobby doubted them... they just judged and fought the way he went about it, not what he was trying to achieve.
ReplyDeleteYou may get a different interpretation than what was shown in the series and what the writers explained if you prefer, but don't be surprised if the story that unfolds don't much your interpretation of what was going on with Cas in S6 then.
Yes, yes, and yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one who would like the Cas/Sam friendship developed more. There's so much potential to explore both of these characters on a deeper level because of their perspectives and parallel journeys.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's not just because they both fell, although that's a big part of it. There's also that Sam used to have faith, but he ended up the vessel of a fallen angel. Cas was agent of Heaven but is now a fallen angel. I'm sure Sam has questions that Cas could answer. Sam used to have questions, anyway.
In turn, Sam could help Cas learn about human redemption. Cas comes from a culture where there's no forgiveness if you fall. Sam could help him understand what it means to have a human soul and spend most of your life falling, only to keep get back up again.
I agree with you for the most part, but I'm going to nitpick a couple of parts. I don't think Cas ever doubted that fighting for free will, or fighting against the Apocalypse, was right. But I think he did start to doubt his intentions on some level and started to question whether he was becoming corrupted and ruled by pride. I think that's part of the reason he seemed so suspicious around Sam. The other angels and Crowley had told Cas that was chosen by God to save them. If he couldn't save Sam like he originally thought he had, then that was a sign that Cas wasn't really working on God's behalf anymore. And if he admitted that to himself, that would cast doubt on his other battles that he was waging in God's name (believing that God wanted the angels to have free will). And at that point, he was too invested.
ReplyDeleteMy response was to someone who said Sam has compassion for forgiving Castiel.
ReplyDeleteIf Sam has compassion for forgiving him, then logically those who can't forgive him, don't have compassion.
That's what I've been hoping for all season.
ReplyDeleteBut let's be realistic here. Castiel and Sam weren't exactly best pals in seasons 4 and 5, but I don't remember watching a single scene with just the two of them. That didn't happen in season 6 either. I think the writers are simply incapable of writing such scenes, or just don't care that there's a friendship that desperately need developing here.
You can't just have them say "he's my friend" once or twice every season when they're not even in the same room. It needs to be shown on screen, Sam and Cass need to interact. They have so much in common now. Not going down that path would a waste of potentiel greatness.
I loved how Sam used Cas's full name. It's so respectful. It reminds me of early season 4 when Sam was treating angels with reverence while Dean was calling them douchbags.
ReplyDeleteWow...that was weird. Love Meg in this clip though!
ReplyDeleteYou're not the only one.
ReplyDeleteI love the tiny bit interactions we had between Sam and Cas, even the tense ones.
And I want that awkward missed hug to happen ;-)
I think that in S5 they truly developed a friendship, not as close as Dean and Cas, but I really felt that they cared about each other and actually I felt like Cas ended up admiring Sam by the end of that season and being the first one to believe that he was actually strong enough to pull through with his plan to stop Lucifer.
ReplyDeleteI hoped to see more in S6 but all that developement was completely screwed for the sake of fitting the souless Sam plot that really didn't go nowhere. But oh well, the past is the past, and I actually think there could be something great coming out of that mess and maybe we have more foundation as to why a friendship between Sam and Cas just needs to be more explored.
That hug so needs to happen! lol
ReplyDeleteFor a moment I thought he was naked under the trench coat!!! *wishes*
ReplyDeleteMisha is sooooo charming!!!
Yeah, like I said, I think proud was definately one of the reasons that made Cas take some of his wrong choices but not in a 'he just started a civil war against Raphael because he was an angry power bastard who just wanted to be ruling Heaven, and he used the stop the apocalypse excuse for that' that a couple of posters here seem to get out of it, but more like he ended up believing in what Crowley and other angels believed, that God may had brought him back to keep fighting for free will in his name, like the Winchesters did. And yeah, you made a good point in that he doubted at some point if he was guided by his proud when he made some of his choices, but one thing is to be guided by his proud and another is that your main objective is to feed your ego or feed your lust for power like some posters think, imo, I don't think that was ever Cas' intention and I don't think he ever considered that.
ReplyDeleteHe's not acting like an evil child...more like mischievous.
ReplyDeleteThat was funny.
ReplyDeleteBen has to have Sam forgiving Castiel there really isnt a another option with this.Otherwise it would be another thing held against Sam has people are so ready to point out Sam was forgiven for all his sins so how can Sam be upset towards Cas .
ReplyDeleteIt is the nature of the show and the situation Eric and the writers put Sam in since season 4 he cant get angry or upset otherwise he is a hypocrite for doing it .Compassion is a easy word to throw around but there wasnt much of it for Sam in season 4 and the aftermath but then Eric didnt help with his negative statment at the end of the season..
If Sam feels compassion towards Cas then all power to him that is why he is the person he is but do fans have a obligation to feel it ? do I have compassion for Cas ? honestly I dont know , I dont hate him or require some terrible punishment rained on him but if it is hard for some to get past Sam's hurts with Dean ( not here) then surely it is to be expected that others might find it hard to forgive the cruelty that Cas did to Sam despite the transference of Sam's crazy?.
I
Am I the only one who thinks that the Cas waking up from the comma will be like the future Cas of 2014 aka from "The End" "???
ReplyDeletePlease get Meg a new meatsuit.
ReplyDeleteThey really used the pull my finger references for Cas to show power
ReplyDeleteI don't believe there's anything wrong with the one she has.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep that in mind anytime someone brings up season 4 in every single Sam vs Dean discussion. I still don't understand the idea that someone who doesn't instantly forgive someone lacks compassion. Especially since you are using a fan's comment to define the term.
ReplyDeleteOh don't worry I'm not surprised. The writer are Cas fanboys. And in all honesty, I could barely sit through The Man Who Would be King it was so terrible.
ReplyDeleteMost people never want to see themselves as the bad guy. They will always believe they have good intentions and try to rationalize what they're doing. So Cas believing he had good intentions means nothing.
Except when the intentions ARE good, or do you consider wanting to stop the apocalypse from being restarted and saving the world is a bad thing? As i said, he chose wrong HOW to stop it and lots of his actions were wrong, and that's why he has a lot to atone for... because the end doesn't justify the means, but those good intentions it's what differences him from characters like Crowley or Meg, and why i don't consider him evil. So to me, to judge if a character is evil or not despite his actions, intentions mean everything.
ReplyDeleteI know how much you hate Castiel since you remind it in every single post, so i totally understand why TMWWBK is not your cup of tea, but to completely ignore what the writers showed in that episode to keep holding on the kind of character you want Castiel to be and then accuse the writers of being Cas fanboys because they don't write the character like you want them to it's pretty unfair.
No they're Cas fanboys because the last two seasons have been more about Cas than the brothers. For example, season 6 was ultimately revealed to be all about his betrayal and Sam's storyline was handed over to him this season. I don't even care it that's unfair or not. I think it's unfair to the main stars to keep giving more attention to supporting characters and many of the fans are dissatisfied with it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not ignoring it at all. It was pretty obvious Cas himself was questioning his own actions. He was beginning to doubt himself. I wasn't talking about intentions not meaning anything, I meant a CHARACTER'S PERSPECTIVE on their own intentions meaning nothing. It's too biased.
By the way I don't think he's evil, just because I don't like him or I'm not convinced his intentions were good, does not automatically mean I think he's evil. I don't think he's necessarily good. i'm sure the writers will reveal him to be though since as I said they are Cas fanboys.
don't know, I just don't like the actress and the way she's portraying Meg.
ReplyDelete