Zap2it: For the last few years, you guys have had to wait for news of pickup or cancellation, which is tough. With a baby on the way, no one could blame you if you were ready to wrap up Sam Winchester. Are you still hoping that The CW picks up Season 8?
Padalecki: Yes. Gen and I are both hoping for Season 8, actually. With as many hours as we work, and as much as I travel back and forth, it's a crazy life, but on the flip side, we've built a family in Vancouver. Our crew, our cast -- we're close to everyone. We know what to expect. When I told them that Gen was pregnant and due in March, they were immediately like 'Okay, we're going to get you some time off.' I didn't even have to ask. You can't do that if you're doing some big movie with Tom Cruise. They'd be like 'Who do you think you are? F*** you.' We all really care about each other, from the writers, to the actors, to the fans.
Zap2it: I spoke with Sera Gamble the other day, and we talked a bit about Sam's upcoming mental breakdown. He's been very carefully managing his hallucinations -- keeping busy and developing this sort of OCD method of staying in control. I hear that's all going to crash and burn pretty soon.
Padalecki: Yep. It's been built up for over a season, ever since Death said 'I can put a wall up, but he's been to hell.' There's a point, for the audience, where if a character can get past any obstacle and can always find a loophole, it becomes kind of cheesy. The fact that I was in a cage with Lucifer, we don't want to make light of it. We don't want to go 'Oh, Sam's doing meditation, so he's okay now! He's worked it out through yoga!' We want to crack him and have him go full-blown nuts. So, yes. In an upcoming episode, he does go bat-ass crazy.
Zap2it: Is he still trying to hide it from Dean?
Padalecki: He's not being super up-front about it, but it gets beyond the point where he can hide it. Sam thinks he's trying to protect Dean from the knowledge that he's in pain. He's going 'No, it doesn't hurt, I'm fine,' while he knows he's dying. It's going to get so bad he can't hide it from anybody. He'll be checked into an asylum where they think he's fully crazy, and honestly, he is. He kind of has been for a long time.
Zap2it: You like it when he's completely off his rocker, though.
Padalecki: I do! It's very fun. It's more than that, though. What's important to me as an actor and as someone who cares about the integrity of the show deeply, is I don't want to -- once you cross certain thresholds and certain barriers, I don't want to go back.
Zap2it: Are there going to be lasting effects on him after this?
Padalecki: Yes. There's an episode that we're talking about right now where Sam isn't sleeping. The longest anybody's ever gone without sleep is like nine days, and they died, because your organs shut down. I wanted to make sure that we don't have an episode where Sam hasn't slept in a week, and he's losing his mind, and then he suddenly gets it together and helps save the day. I want him to be human, and I want him to be effed up. What's made these characters likable is that they are human. Sam had his issues with demon blood and whatnot, but the story is about two human beings, not about an angel and a demon chick. They come and go, but the audience can't relate unless it's about human condition and human emotions and the way nature and nurture affect you. You wrote about that in your article. I want to stay true to this guy going nuts and slowly degenerating.
Zap2it: Misha Collins is coming back for a few episodes this season.
Padalecki: Yeah, his first episode is the one where Sam goes crazy. We're so stoked to have him come back. So, so stoked.
Zap2it: How do the Winchesters handle it?
Padalecki: Well, for Dean, it's a double edged sword. He's been really hurt by what Cas did. Sam and Castiel were never close; Cas always had a bone to pick with Sam because of the Ruby thing, which is understandable, the whole apocalypse thing.
Zap2it: It worked out pretty well for you, though.
Padalecki: Yeah, Jared's alright with it. My demon child is on the way, I'm good.
Zap2it: So when Castiel returns, that's really a Dean-centric story?
Padalecki: Definitely. Sam never took offense to the fact that Cas had a beef with him. Sam's always been pragmatic and practical. He's like, 'Okay, I guess if I was talking to somebody who messed the whole world up, I'd be hesitant too.' I think with Dean, it's really hard for him to deal with Castiel's betrayal. We've seen Sam wrestle with visions of Lucifer, and now it's Dean's turn to have that kind of a story. We'll see Dean struggle to wrap his head around the Castiel issue. He's like, 'How do we forgive this guy? How do we trust him? That's how we got hurt; that's how we got burned.' Dean's once bitten, twice shy. We'll see him wrestle with some of his own demons.
Zap2it: Sam and Dean, at least, seem to be back on track with their relationship. They trust each other again. You and Jensen have both said that you prefer that to the episodes where they're keeping major secrets.
Padalecki: Personally, we're close friends, great friends, and professionally, we've learned how to tell this story through the eyes of our characters, and Sam and Dean are the most important people in each others' lives. When they're on good terms, it's -- I don't want to say it's comfortable, because it's hard work, but it's more comfortable than trying to tell stories you don't know how to tell. We know how to tell the story of Sam and Dean against the world, and we know the fans are receptive to it, so hopefully it'll continue to play out that way.
Read more at Zap2it
Supernatural - Season 7 - Jared Padalecki interview - Sam to be institutionalized
17 Jan 2012
Supernatural
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ReplyDeleteCANNOT WAIT.
really good... Mark Pellegrino will star to appear in 7.15 and in 7.17 Sam is going totally nutssssssssss
ReplyDeletecan't fucking wait!
Meh. If Sam has been crazy all this time the writers did a crappy job of showing it. From what the writers have actually shown us, it would seem that Dean is the one with the mental problems.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... I can keep in mind that it's because of real life and Jared has a child to be there for, but a lot of people are probably about to be upset with the second half of Supernatural because of this situation...
ReplyDeleteHm.. while I don't agree with Dean needing to wrestle with whether to trust Castiel again or not... But that aside! Definitely excited to see more of Sam's stuff! So, so excited! Poor Sam!
ReplyDeleteInstitutionalized? Does that mean the Leviathans aren't working at hospitals anymore? And what is up with Castiel not liking Sam? Dean and Castiel have the closer relationship, but I don't think Castiel has a beef with Sam. (Then again, he did break Sam's wall.) I know that Jared has to take time off, but does that mean that there will be episodes where we won't see Sam at all? Or just Sam in the beginning and then go off with Dean? And I don't understand. I thought Jared would be taking time off in March. But if they are already filming episode 16, then episode 17 when Misha returns, but wouldn't that be filmed in January or February? So, why check Sam out of the game then? Isn't that a little earlier?
ReplyDeleteThis will be interesting. Sam has been holding it together all this time, so when he finally breaks, he breaks big time. Great opportunity for Jared to really 'go nuts' with his character. so to speak. :P
ReplyDeleteNot so interested in Cas. Maybe he can glue Sam's wall back together.
his demon child lol hes one funny dude thanks for the interview
ReplyDeleteReally good stuff in there... Thanks for the post
ReplyDeleteSOMEONE HOLD ME! NO BABY SAMMY YOU CAN'T GO INTO A PSYCHO WARD PLACE. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO THAT WILL KILL DEAN! DEAN WILL GO BAT-SHIT CRAZY WITH WORRY! NO NO NO NO NO NO AHHHHHHHHHHHH WHEN THE HELL IS EPISODE 17 GETING HERE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T LET CAS BE A HALLUCINATION OH PLEASEEE PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THIS SHOW ALREADY BROKE MY HEART WITH BOBBY GONE! THEY CAN'T DO ANYMORE DAMAGE TO IT! I HAVE TO HAVE SOME HEART LEFT FOR OTHER SHOWS! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be interesting! Sam doesn't sleep and goes full-on bats--how they make that work, in terms of how Sam and Dean react to insanity, will be great. And it's nice to see Padalecki get some decent time off to be with his wife and child. Paternity leave rocks.
ReplyDeleteI know I'm in a major minority (and I'll not make any judgements until I see how the ep plays out) but I was really hoping Misha was coming back as a different character and not as Castiel. After what went down with the Laviathans I feel like the right point for that story was to kill the character off.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if they'll be able to handle Jered's family leave like they do on the day time soaps. Pre-film a few scenes so that he won't be as missed in the eps filmed while he's off.
The insanity story sounds like it has potential to be a lot of fun.
Holy crap! Now that's what I call an over reaction lol...
ReplyDeleteI, I love Jared's brain so much, he really said what I want to hear. Being honest, his summary sounded much more awesome that the show has been. Because if Sam is in that much of mental turmoil about his time in hell, we have seen shit, and it makes me believe that Jared is trying to retroactively make us believe that.
ReplyDeleteWhich IS maybe the only choice left. I can overwrite my brain if it means that I will enjoy more the episodes to come.
I disagree, but only because his death was lame and emotionally shallow. They could have killed him for realsies that episode, but it seriously didn't pack much emotion, too frenetic, too much going on.
ReplyDeleteAnd it bother me because it happened because they didn't had the balls to kill him for real and make it worth, like Tara on Buffy. They just "killed" him that ambiguously to keep Collins fans on the wait.
Cheap, but it will work.
Hell, its half working for me.
This is quite possibly my favorite Supernatural interview. Not just because it is Jared being interviewed but because he has addressed some issues that I've had problems with since S5.
ReplyDeletePadalecki: Well, for Dean, it's a double edged sword. He's been really hurt by what Cas did. Sam and Castiel were never close; Cas always had a bone to pick with Sam because of the Ruby thing, which is understandable, the whole apocalypse thing.
THIS!! god this! I don't mind that the show and much of the fandom say that Sam and Cas are friends now even though they have never shown it, not like they have with Dean. But it is nice to get an confirmation that yes, they aren't friends and probably are "friends" solely because of their shared kinship with Dean. I've always felt that Cas protected Sam in S5-S6 solely because he knew that it would make Dean happy. There isn't anything wrong about that. And that is how I viewed Sam's call for god!Cas because he wanted him to come for Dean's sake.
And Sam going mental?! I can't wait for crazy!Sam :D
I wanted to make sure I was understanding you correctly. Are you saying you're okay with Castiel coming back because his death was, for you, lame and emotionally shallow?
ReplyDeleteI had some problems with the first ep of the season. There were elements that felt rushed, so I can agree with you about it being frenetic. But, for me, Castiel's death scene worked. He apologized to Dean and admitted he was wrong. His death, by being subsumed by the Leviathan, felt like a just consequence of a supremely bad decision. In that sense his death felt right to me and worthy of being the end of the issue. IMHO his character isn't needed to play out the story of Dean's handling of that betrayal and loss.
But, as always, I will wait and watch with an open mind. It's highly possible that I will be pleasantly surprised.
I'm psyched for Sam's story to be addressed, FINALLY. It seems like it's been forever since we've had any focus on what's going on with him. I have to say, though, that I'm really disappointed with how the writers have handled the lead-up to his arc. They should have been lying the groundwork for this plot ages ago - little hints of what was to come, cracks starting to form, Sam starting to slip, worsening symptoms, even one or two momentary lapses in sanity to let us in on what's developing in his brain. They've made him seem SO well-adjusted and A-okay this whole time that it'll be less believable when he crumbles. I would have LOVED to have seen some of what Sam has been seeing/experiencing/feeling this whole time. We're being TOLD that he's been continuing to have hallucinations, that he's still dealing with his hell memories, but they never SHOW us. With Sam unfortunately it's always tell with very little show, and Dean tends to get most of the "showing" as far as POV and character exploration.
ReplyDeleteI hope that this changes with Sam's arc and the whole "going nuts" thing. And I hope that we get some Dean POV on what's happening to Sam, but that Dean's POV/worry for Sam/angst over his brother going nuts/etc doesn't take center stage and overshadow Sam's POV, as it did with the whole demon blood arc, Sam going darkside, etc. I also hope that they don't give it an easy fix, like Cas coming back and building Sam a brand new wall or erasing his memories or something. I don't want Sam a gibbering madman for the rest of the series, but I also don't want them to just abort this plot with some half-assed easy solution that totally erases the issue for good. It would be cool to see Sam have to integrate this experience with the rest of his life, having to deal with the fallout long-term, how it would change him or his life, relationships, etc.
I also hope that Jared's "time off" doesn't impact Sam's presence in the last part of the season too much - that they pre-film Sam's scenes as much as possible, or work something out that gives Jared time off as well as keeping Sam in the episodes and part of the plot. This season has been VERY Dean-heavy so far (one of the most Dean-centric seasons so far, I think), and we were promised that Sam would be given some attention in the second half of the season. I know they weren't planning on the pregnancy, and that it's important for Jared to be there for his family (obviously), but I really hope that they find a way to keep the happy event from undermining the little bit of Sam focus we get this season. They owe us a LOT of Sam POV and focus to make up for the first half of the season, and I just don't want to be let down AGAIN if they fail to deliver it (no matter how good the reason).
But regardless, I'm excited for this arc! Jared does a GREAT job of portraying Sam as sort of crazy, unbalanced, losing his grip on reality, freakign out, etc. I hope we get some brotherly H/C and bonding like the scene with Dean helping Sam ground himself with pain. Gotta love protective, big-brother Dean in action! Here's hoping Dean's there to help him find his way back to reality, even if Sam ends up in an institution!
Yes, that. A death is supposed to have a punch, to hurt, and not just for the episode. He was a beloved character after all, he deserved a more grandiose death, a more tragic one if it was going to be permanent.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, the main reason that I was inclined to believe that he would come back is that his death was just too blasé. I have no problem that he died because his actions led to it. I had a problem on how it was executed and how weak the emotional "punch" was. You just can't kill a character that has been part of the mythology for three years in the intro of an episode, so rushed, so out of focus, so blergh.
The lameness of his death made me believe he would be back, even if it is to kill him "properly" His death at the start of the season just didn't hit my emotional chords. I don't know how they are going to handle his character now, a large part of me wanted him to die at the beginning of the season to make room for the new plot, but I wanted at least a proper send-off, not the rushed and high string thing that we had.
Point in case, Castiel didn't even said goodbye.
PS: Either way, I would have even preferred that Cas had died when he absorbed the purgatory souls, a "shock" death .
Sounds good to me. Having a legitimate reason for Jared/Sam to have a light load at the end of the season makes alot of sense too. I hope that fans are on board with it as the complaints when it seems as if one of the brothers is being marginalised are really tiresome!
ReplyDeleteFirst, I love the word "blergh" may I use it sometime? :-)
ReplyDeleteI do understand your reasoning. This is one of the few universes where, if you flub something like a character's death you can bring them back and do it again.
My problem is, I honestly don't think re-traveling that story territory is going to result in a more satisfying outcome. I hope I'm wrong. But I have my doubts.
Really Sam should have been shown to have been slipping since episode 10, Bobby dying would have been the perfect catalyst. There would have been a nicce build up all the way to 17 instead of just suddenly crazy in 14/15-17?
ReplyDeleteAlso......
-does this mean that Sam is sent to the nut house in 17?
-is that the end of Sam's arc this season?
-will we see Sam again this season at all?
-is Sam at all involved in the Leviathan arc/stopping them?
-will Sam be missing for any episodes and if so how many?
These are all importanat questions that no one has asked yet. Some fans are not going to want to watch the end of the season if Sam is gone from say episode 17 to 23. They should be informed in advance to stave off dissapointment and anger, as it is we're jumping to a lot of conclusions because we arent getting any clear answers.
The only problem with what Jared said in regards to Cas was that he makes it all sound like Cas balmes Sam for the whole apocolyse mess, when it wasnt all his fault. Cas had his own role to play in that as did Dean but Sam is the only one being blamed/judged for it. If Cas comes back all self righteous and well a dick I am not going to be happy.
ReplyDeleteOh and I agree I always felt like both Cas and Bobby only cared for Sam because he was an extension of Dean. I changed my mind about Bobby this season because I really do think he loves Sam like a son, I just felt he hadnt really shown it much untill this season.
I dont care if Cas and Sam are friends at all. He can be Dean's BFF I want Jody Mills to be Sam's BFF/parent figure basically she can be Sam's Cas and Bobby all wrapped in one.
he's putting a positive spin on what is basically a writing failure. They havent shown us any reason to believe Sam is not OK not anything like what both Jared, Sera or Bob Singer have described, the fans arent stupid but there also isnt anything they can do aboout it so they'll just have to take it for what it is/go with the flow.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to be absolutely honest, I both love and hate the fact that Sam is going to go insane. Love it because it'll be amazing to watch Jared really just go nuts with the character and well its kinda been a long time coming. Hate it because I know it means less Sam/no Sam for a while, even possibly for the rest of the season.
ReplyDeleteI know it'll make me a bad fan but I dont want to lie if there is no Sam/very little Sam in any number of episodes then I wont be watching. I expect some others will feel the same and I would expect Dean fans would react the same if Jensen had to be absent for any number of episodes.
btw I'm from the UK so I dont affect the ratings
I'm not being a cow or whiny or anything I just think there is the distinct possiblility that if I feel this way others might too.
No Jared=No Sam=No brothers
Its not something that can be helped but it still makes me sad.
On the other hand I am so happy for Jared and I hope he enjoys his paternity leave. Hope there arent too many sleepless nights in his future.
"He's worked it out through yoga!"
ReplyDeleteHaha, brilliant interview! looking forward to later on in the season! :D
Yeah of course the whole mess wasn't all Sam's fault but the fact that the writers NEVER addressed Cas' role in the Apocalypse really pissed me off to no end. Plus it sort of legitimized the part of fandom who always loves to lay the blame for how Dean lives, blah on Sam because then they just went on about it (and some still do) esp. about Sam's apology. It was pushed under the rag in S5 and sort of soured that season for me because I felt that it was crucial to address it in terms of Sam's characterization.
ReplyDeleteI mean--they dropped that entire SL in favor of Sam's anger and rage that Lucifer just had to feed off of?! I've never thought of Sam as a seriously angry person so that came left field for me. Not to mention the vessel SL which retconned S2 and the special kids well because Sam was always going to be the one. Ideally, I would have liked to see Sam own up to his part but also realize that he was manipulated and kick ass about it. They sort of gave that role to Dean so there is that I guess...Why I really like this article because Jared called it as I've seen it since S5- Cas and Sam ARE NOT bosom buddies and I shake my head at the whole 'They're friends now' because when in the heck have we seen that?!
Occasionally, I saw in scenes with both of them, that Jared subtly showed Sam not liking Cas at the same level as he does Dean or even Bobby. Just take the scene after Sam gets his soul back and meets Cas for the first time.
I'm curious to know exactly how much time Jared will have off.
ReplyDeleteIs it a week, or a month, or what, for obviously the length of time is going to be important.
I'm in agreement with him having the time off for the actual birth and maybe a couple of weeks afterwards but I really don't think that during his working season, which ends around the end of March anyway, he should be absent for more than that.
Then just how many episodes will that affect?
Clearly Collins has been brought brought back to cover the time that Sam will not be present and I'm honestly not too happy about that.
If someone has to take Sam's place, I would rather have Jodie and Garth, instead of having the whole Castiel thing brought up again.
This all sounds awesome. This season has felt like a lot of filler, with very few consequences from week to week, so I'm glad to hear of some stuff that's important.
ReplyDeleteI actually can't wait for these episodes now!
I agree completely. I hate that re: Sam we only get told about things and they rarely show us his POV
ReplyDeleteYes seriously I love Jared but seriously that's Kripkes BS story being repeated,scape goating Sam alone for breaking the world.is beyond ridiculous and its an utter betrayal of this character and simple truth in storytelling and it was done for one reason only to give Castile a reason to stay onscreen in S 5 As if Dean knew the whole truth about what Castile did lying him into the green room promising him Sam would be safe and out of all this and then turning around and letting Sam out of the panic room and removing Anna to ensure Sam had a clear path to killing Lilith. Cass lying to both Sam and dean that killing Lilith was the way to stop the apocalypse when he knew her death would start it And what about that altered phone call
ReplyDeleteIt was Castiel and the Angels who orchestrated and were intentionally trying to start the apocalypse while Sam was trying to stop it. There were 66 seals Dean broke the first sam the last. Both boys were victims and pawns lied to and manipulated by Heaven and Hell broken to fit the roles Heaven wanted them to play. Both boys were played,not Sam alone Castile was Deans Ruby with a season full of facts to back it up. Even if they were denied or omitted facts are facts Sam could never have started it without Castiel. Misha himself said his character is responsible for starting the apocalypse and he has not right to be too mad at Sam with how involved in starting it Castiel was
Yes seriously I love Jared but seriously that's Kripkes BS story being repeated,scape goating Sam alone for breaking the world.is beyond ridiculous and its an utter betrayal of this character and simple truth in storytelling and it was done for one reason only to give Castile a reason to stay onscreen in S 5 As if Dean knew the whole truth about what Castile did lying him into the green room promising him Sam would be safe and out of all this and then turning around and letting Sam out of the panic room and removing Anna to ensure Sam had a clear path to killing Lilith. Cass lying to both Sam and dean that killing Lilith was the way to stop the apocalypse when he knew her death would start it And what about that altered phone call
ReplyDeleteIt was Castiel and the Angels who orchestrated and were intentionally trying to start the apocalypse while Sam was trying to stop it. There were 66 seals Dean broke the first sam the last. Both boys were victims and pawns lied to and manipulated by Heaven and Hell broken to fit the roles Heaven wanted them to play. Both boys were played,not Sam alone Castile was Deans Ruby with a season full of facts to back it up. Even if they were denied or omitted facts are facts Sam could never have started it without Castiel. Misha himself said his character is responsible for starting the apocalypse and he has not right to be too mad at Sam with how involved in starting it Castiel was
Dare I say it..."sweet merciful awesome" interview. I love Jared's interviews, I can learn so much more than from anyone else. The rest of the season is going to be so good.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like all those fans who wanted Sam gone and Dean and Cas riding around in the Impala hunting together and being 'brother' are going to get their wish at least for a little while.
ReplyDeleteNo one asked him how long he's be gone because we just knew it... I had no idea Jared was going to take a time off. The firsts questions that popped to my head was exactly the ones you asked here... Hopefully someone will ask him and we'll know.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, I doubt it'll be this long. I surely hope not.
Jared is contracted to do 23 episodes so they will work around the shooting of the episodes.People are 'taking time off' with Sam not being present that wont happen .
ReplyDeleteTotally agree they really stabbed Sam in the back in season 4 onwards. They set him up to be the fall guy without showing his side of the story. They retconned stuff about Sam like going to Stanford and announce how selfish and wrong and how it upset Dean. Stanford was never about Dean .The worst part was it damaged Sam in a way he least deserved and I still dont think Eric and the rest really do understand how much damage they did.
ReplyDeleteI kinda found it strange when Dean told Krissy that she could go to college given how he regarded Sam's college adventure as a direct stab in the back to him and his dad. Maybe he's changed his tune and now doesnt take Stanford to mean Sam was selfish and a betrayer but as a good thing? I just wish the memory wasnt already tainted for Sam which I'm sure it is what with Brady possessed, Jess killed because of him and Dean telling him Sam's good memories were basically his worst.
ReplyDeleteI just found it strange that Dean had changed his mind about Stanford, but I guess now that he's had a taste of normal himself and lost it and that he knows there is no chance Sam will ever go back he has maybe forgiven Sam and made piece with it?
I honestly dont mind Cas coming back but I just cant stand the whole Destial thing the writers like to play up to and I can think of nothing worse than having to sit through yet more Dean angst. Just punch the dick and move on already because we all know you're going to be making weird sex eyes at each other in the next episode.
ReplyDeleteThank you! Poor Sam!
ReplyDeleteI really think things will get better from episode 14 onwards.We just need to tolerate the probably awful episode 13. And if they can tone down a little bit the Dean/Cas interations would be good too,because the old Dean seeing his brother crazy and institutionalized, because of Cas,would kill the angel without thinking twice.
ReplyDeleteYou're not the only one who feels this way. I feel that way too. They could've used to first half of the season to focus on Sam instead of Dean, but no... they totally fucked this season all up in terms of anything for Sam, and it makes me sick the way he's consistently sidelined. Call me a whiny cow or a bitch whatever people want to call me, I actually could give a fuck less. I'm honestly growing further and further apart from this show because of the constant disappointment and the absolutely despise the idea of them locking him away in an Asylum. Play it sympathetically. Don't fucking play it to Dean's sympathies or poor Dean. Play it to Sam's sympathies, and don't just make him batshit crazy. Ugh... Sorry for the rant.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. It is similar to how John is portrayed in the earlier seasons to the latter ones. There are a lot of little things that have been retconned in the later seasons
ReplyDeleteYes, especially with the way Kripke made a mockery out of Sam's independent spirit in Season 5 something this show rightfully presented as a character trait of Sam's to be greatly admired and that Dean admired in his little brother as highlighted in "Scarecrow" Season 5 was a disaster because the original storyline of both brothers being played was discarded And they dumped heavily on Sam throwing whatever they thought would stick to adjust to this imbalance of keeping Castiel in the show and giving him a free pass for all of his crimes against humanity and brotherhood .committed in Season 4. Jumping teams at the last minute in the season finale doesn't alleviate a person of those but it this show they got swept under the rug for a popular secondary character. Just wrong. It was the one most horrible choice Kripke made or the previous network head forced him to and it did damage to all the Winchesters the way they tore apart John and Mary and scapegoating Sam only ended hurting the character of Dean perhaps even more and this shows history so much of it was contradicted
ReplyDeleteIf they can bring Castiel back to give him a proper good bye Why can't they at long last vendicate Sam with the facts or truth (they are one in the same( which was swept under the rug in Season 4 to scapegoat Sam when he was far from alone in starting the apocalypse That both brothers were played That Castile was indeed Deans Ruby
Yes, especially with the way Kripke made a mockery out of Sam's independent spirit in Season 5 something this show rightfully presented as a character trait of Sam's to be greatly admired and that Dean admired in his little brother as highlighted in "Scarecrow" Season 5 was a disaster because the original storyline of both brothers being played was discarded And they dumped heavily on Sam throwing whatever they thought would stick to adjust to this imbalance of keeping Castiel in the show and giving him a free pass for all of his crimes against humanity and brotherhood .committed in Season 4. Jumping teams at the last minute in the season finale doesn't alleviate a person of those but it this show they got swept under the rug for a popular secondary character. Just wrong. It was the one most horrible choice Kripke made or the previous network head forced him to and it did damage to all the Winchesters the way they tore apart John and Mary and scapegoating Sam only ended hurting the character of Dean perhaps even more and this shows history so much of it was contradicted
ReplyDeleteIf they can bring Castiel back to give him a proper good bye Why can't they at long last vendicate Sam with the facts or truth (they are one in the same( which was swept under the rug in Season 4 to scapegoat Sam when he was far from alone in starting the apocalypse That both brothers were played That Castile was indeed Deans Ruby
Crazy can be good. Works for me.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about the Leviathan when Bobby was in the hospital, but it's probably not all hospitals, just the one. The reason they went to that hospital was because they wanted to do surgery so they could eat people's organs, and that probably wouldn't work so well in a mental institution. Being institutionalized would make Sam a sitting duck if the Leviathan find him, though.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if they'll address the soulless-Sam-didn't-sleep development of last year. I don't think his organs would care whether he had a soul or not.
ReplyDeleteI think you are right there, rehashing the story won't necessarily make it better, and could easily go into overdone territory. It could easily feel like flogging a dead horse.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I just don't know where they are going with Cas right now, if its even Cas, actually, to me, the most interesting scenarios could result from a Cas impostor. Mess with Dean's head royally then bam! it's a trap! Or something like that.
Most scenarios feel unnecessary to me, and won't hide the fact that Collins is being brought back to appease his fans instead for the integrity of the story.
Even if I have liked a lot the stand alone cases, the overall feel of the season has been very sucky, suckity,very random. Is this a season about inner turmoil, is this a season about a bigger enemy. It is both, but none of the issues has been brought strongly to the forefront. The themes just feel dulled overall.
I'm all, "sure! why not" It does sounds much better than what we have seen. Ther has been seriously so little cohesiveness between the themes of the season, I think that they are just telling themselves "let the fans fill the emotional gaps!"
ReplyDeleteCause we've had some really MotW cases, but the overall emotional arc (which at this point, is what mist people expect when watching SPN) is very vague.
Sam is suffering horrible hallucinations, but just doesn't shows it. That's lame, that's seriously some "Perfect Stranger" crap going on. There's no way that the viewer can deduce what is happening if there's no clues. Even if they had took three seconds per episode to show Sam staring at the nothingness, maybe even that is going to be enough. Because so far, they have shown us that Sam is getting nothing but better, and if the idea is "We fooled you, he is royally fucked up!" as a surprise, is not surprisey at all. So, retroactivelly fixing Sam's strugless seems like the only not-as-suckity option.
Everyone tells Dean to buck up, yet we still don't know for sure what has him that fucked up, Even after he fessed up to Sam, he was still in serious need of a "cheer up, emo boy!" Is the Cas thing? Is Jared right?. Hope so, cause Dean emoness has been constant this season, they have to make it pay up nicely.
So, I really want Jared to be spot on on his words, cause that would even greatly the season.
I'm all, "sure! why not" It does sounds much better than what we have seen. Ther has been seriously so little cohesiveness between the themes of the season, I think that they are just telling themselves "let the fans fill the emotional gaps!"
ReplyDeleteCause we've had some really MotW cases, but the overall emotional arc (which at this point, is what mist people expect when watching SPN) is very vague.
Sam is suffering horrible hallucinations, but just doesn't shows it. That's lame, that's seriously some "Perfect Stranger" crap going on. There's no way that the viewer can deduce what is happening if there's no clues. Even if they had took three seconds per episode to show Sam staring at the nothingness, maybe even that is going to be enough. Because so far, they have shown us that Sam is getting nothing but better, and if the idea is "We fooled you, he is royally fucked up!" as a surprise, is not surprisey at all. So, retroactivelly fixing Sam's strugless seems like the only not-as-suckity option.
Everyone tells Dean to buck up, yet we still don't know for sure what has him that fucked up, Even after he fessed up to Sam, he was still in serious need of a "cheer up, emo boy!" Is the Cas thing? Is Jared right?. Hope so, cause Dean emoness has been constant this season, they have to make it pay up nicely.
So, I really want Jared to be spot on on his words, cause that would even greatly the season.
Anyone that has been paying attention to the show, has seen Sam working on his hand in several eps. That says I am NOT ALRIGHT and am trying to figure out what is real.
ReplyDeleteOr "I have a grease stain" I'm sorry, but It must have been really subtle cause I didn't noticed.
ReplyDeleteThere IS such a thing as being too subtle and vague.
I really really cant understand the ppl who say that this season "12 eps" was a heavy dean-centric season cause if i remember right ep 1 was about godstiel and bobby along wiz the boys trying to stop him then ep 2 was about sam halucifer so u can consider it a sam centric then ep 3 was a sam centric too ep 4 "my least fav this season" ok may b a dean centric but sam has a gr8 role in it seriously as in eps 5 6 and 7 it included both brothers in equal shares then ep 8 i dont see it a sam centric but u can consider it about sam anyway and 9 was a gr8 ep wiz bobby then 10 was a bobby centric as for 11 i dont see it a dean centric too but ok if u wanna consider it like that this makes 2 sam centrics and 2 dean centrics as for the amazing 12 ep it included both of them too so wth anyway i really cant w8 to eps 14 and the rest of the season and i also dont think that sam wont be in an upcoming ep and i say lets w8 and see how the whole asylum thing will go cus i cant see dean leaving his pain in the ass little bro in an asylum then go his way :)
ReplyDeleteThis all shifts based on where Dean is emotionally at the moment. John was his hero in season 1, but not so much later on. Part of me thinks this show will end with the revelation that this is all in Dean's head - that his brother and mother died in a fire in his brother's nursery, and Dean has been in an institution since.
ReplyDeleteOr that his healing wound was starting to itch.
ReplyDeleteIs was wondering how exactly Sam will end up in the nuthouse. For some reason I can't see Dean bringing him there. The old Dean would never give up on Sam just like that, so I'm assuming something must have happened for him to get there. I'm talking about the old Dean, because the whiny S7 Dean is certainly not the Dean that we were used to. When did he actually become like that, and the question I've been asking myself the whole season: Why does he actualy take Sam's "I'm fine", when he was warned by everyone (Death, Cas) that the wall falling would have grave consequences, and doesn't he for once just TALK to his brother, instead of whining to about just everyone about how bad things are for him, while things could be much, much worse...
ReplyDeleteHe can be sad that he has lost Cas, but has he forgotten his numben one rule in life (at least, according to canon S1, S2, S3): NO ONE GETS TO HURT HIS BROTHER.
If it ever finishes like that or in an any way similar situation, I will take all my DVD's and throw them into the garbage can and never watch an episode of Supernatural again.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what kind of ending there will be but it will have to be one that is at least mildly satisfying for the brothers, for if it ends like Swan Song where they don't even get to die together i will just forget Supernatural ever existed.
May be? and thats fair enough . I suppose my issue was and still is that Stanford shouldnt of been used has a weapon against him.Has being born or being chosen for a destiny he never asked for.
ReplyDeleteI agree. That would not be a satisfying ending. There were moments though, this season, that were so much from Dean's perspective that I started to wonder.
ReplyDeleteI personally wouldn't mind that scenario although it would be a massive cop out if they do that. But it would explain the focus of the show...
ReplyDeleteSadly, as Supernatural gets older with time, I've began to doubt that they will end the show with both boys surviving or dying together.
ReplyDeleteI'm still watching but the show isn't the same and I think that when it ends for good, it will be entirely unrecognizable aside from the title and the cast. While this is a good thing in many ways, I hate it because in its current form, I'd never have begun watching it.
I seem to agreeing to all your posts today. YES! YES! and Yes!! but that has been a thing of Sam since I don't even know :( it is so sad that the writer have forgotten that Sam isn't just a plot device but he is primarily a character first and foremost
ReplyDeleteSadly, we've come to rely on Jared's acting abilities in order to see an actual difference in Sam. Jensen is brilliant as Dean but Jared's ability to be really subtle in a 'blink and you miss it' way is incredible at times. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to tell what actually is happening with Sam. Unless you just accept Dean's interpretation of Sam or what other characters have said about Sam.
ReplyDeleteI'll be very interested to see how this plays out, and I'm happy for the baby.
ReplyDeleteBut I really wonder about the planning of this season, after they were informed of the baby, which must have been in Sept. or Oct. I see no evidence that whoever is in charge [and I suspect it's more than one] planned it out so there would be a balance and coherent storyline later.
Well, the sky's the limit, but I myself, honestly can't imagine an adequate ending for the show.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that is has to be something I can accept, and if it's too tragic I won't be able to!
I'd rather it ended in some mysterious ghostly manner that left it all open to our imagination, rather than have them gunned down like dogs, or die without the comfort of the other, after all they have gone through!
I wouldn't mind seeing it end with Sam and Dean in Heaven for good, and with them passing on the torch to another generation of hunters. Maybe young Ben will grow up to become a hunter. If Cas is still a friend and allowed into Heaven, he could teach them how to cross into other people's Heavens, and they could reunite with their family, and Sam with Jess. Dean could finally get his Grand Canyon vacation by visiting another heaven of someone whose memories are of the Grand Canyon.
ReplyDeleteThat would my ultimate ending! :D
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the problems all began with the writers' strike in season 3.
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced that the story would have gone in a different direction and perhaps Sam would have managed to get Dean out of Hell on his own, but because of the strike and lack of time, the writers went with the angel story-line and that changed the whole feel of the show.
Now, of course, there is no turning back but I'm sure that Supernatural can still give its fans pleasure and satisfaction in the future, so I wouldn't be too pessimistic. :)
Oh totally :) I agree with you although that decision somewhat derailed the heart of the show. I think that slowly the writers are getting back to it but it will take time.
ReplyDeleteGreat interview! Thanks for posting.
ReplyDeleteI'll go to the top to answer.
ReplyDeleteJared will be taking a little bit of time off AFTER the baby is born in March. Per @cadlymack:
ReplyDelete@cadlymack
Carina MacKenzie
Bc some people have asked -- Castiel episodes are shooting this month. Jared isn't being written out of them at all. #SPN
In reply to chris684
ReplyDeleteYes, that's probably the kind of ending I would prefer, although I would rather go for a reincarnation of the brothers themselves after a good old rest in Heaven!
If not that, at least something uplifting that leaves you with a good feeling. :)
Lol no! to St. Elswhere. It would be totally lame.
ReplyDeleteI would feel that way if it was Dean. So you have my honest condolences.
ReplyDeleteDean, Cas and Sam together.Was all I was expecting.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations Jared and his wife!!! :D
You can always count on JP for a straightforward, no bullsh*t, interview. Good read.
ReplyDeleteLol at demon child.
ReplyDeleteInteresting move with Sam being institutionalised...looking forward to it.
Great interview. I really do love getting the boys perspective on things.
ReplyDeleteI must have missed something. What makes you think no more Sam for an episode or the rest of the season. The way I read it he is only committed for one episode then and that one seems to be pretty Samcentric. As for the time off they can film around him. Jeez, it's not the first baby ever born in the world or to an actor. I'm pretty sure they have planned for it and made arrangements to film around Jared for a bit. I don't see the reason for all the panic and I am a Sam girl.
ReplyDeleteAgain what is the basis for all this panic? From everything I read in that interview it sounds like BOTH brothers will be very present.
ReplyDeleteYou know what. I think that is an excuse used by the writers. They could have, if they wanted, written a story in which Sam rescued Dean even with the writer's strike.
ReplyDeleteIf Cas would own up to what he did and the part he played in starting the apocalypse, then maybe I wouldn't dislike him so much.
ReplyDeleteI want the show to acknowledge that Sam and Dean didn't have a chance against the angels and demons who were in cahoots together with a plan to start the Apocalypse long before Sam and Dean were conceived. I want them to stop blaming Sam for what the angels and demons did.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wondered why the show took every opportunity to take potshots at Sam. I wondered, at the time, if the writers didn't like the actor. I wasn't in the "fandom" at the time so didn't know about the divisiveness yet. I still wonder.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything you said!!
ReplyDeleteI NEVER believed that Kripke had a 5-year plan fleshed out. If he did, then why did he agree to bring angels on the show when he previously said he never would. I believe he had nothing more than a vague idea, which he had no problem retconning. And I still do not understand why they decided to throw Sam under the bus.
If you missed it, then so did I. No offense, but take a breath people! The most telling phrase in that whole interview was Jared saying the production people said "we'll work in some time off". That was at the BEGINNING of filming for the season. That means they had plenty of time to work things out. They've always filmed things out of order on this show, so this is no different. They could've done a lot of Sam heavy filming now and get it ouf the way and then do other stuff that doesn't require Jared around the time the baby is born. Same way they juggled the schedule when Jensen directed and wasn't featured in those episodes as much. It's Hollywood, they do this all the time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the powers that be have made some mistakes this season but I seriously don't think they're going to be dumb enough to entirely cut out a main character, especially when it's entirely unnecessary. Just relax and watch what happens BEFORE you blow a gasket!
Who said they never acknowledged it? Maybe you were watching something different than me, but the entire ending of S5 was based on the premise that it was Sam and Dean's free will, their humanity, overcoming all the machinations of the angels and demons to stop the apocalypse. That's why they specifically never brought God in to the picture for the "easy fix"...because that wasn't the ultimate point.
ReplyDeleteAnd not only was it clearly demonstrated there, it was flat out explained last season when Castiel gave us the lengthy story of everything he'd done in the past year and how he followed Dean's example realizing that you don't have to just nod and go along with what you're told, that you can do the right thing simply BECAUSE it's the right thing. Granted, he didn't exactly go about it the best way, but that was his reasoning. It was the lesson Dean had learned from Sam at the end of S5 and then Cas learned from Dean. It's been the basic foundation of this whole show...humanity, family, love, will always out...it's more powerful than heaven or hell.
As many mistakes as they've made last season and this, I really don't think Kripke and co. could've made that much clearer.
Ok, I have to ask...what the hell does "retconning" mean? Not a word I've ever heard of before.
ReplyDeleteThat aside, in the companion book to Season 3, Kripke explained that he had absolutely REFUSED to introduce angels into the mix and never intended to change his mind on that subject, even though several of his writers had brought it up already, but when the writer's strike hit and they suddenly had to end the season half as quickly as they wanted to, they needed a way to do it and still maintain the integrity of the overall story line. The choice they made was to actually send Dean to Hell. The original plan was to have Sam use his powers and keep him from going at all. But there wasn't enough time to to work that whole thing out satisfactorily.
Then they had to start S4 and had to find a way to bring Dean back...that's when the subject of angels reared it's ugly head again and Kripke finally had to give in. I never liked the whole introduction of the angel storyline myself and I honestly don't believe it was Kripke's intention. As we ultimately saw with the ending of S5, the point was for humanity to prevail over evil...that didn't necessarily require the introduction of angels, but Dean being in Hell did because there was no other credible way to bring him back.
So I definitely buy Kripke's five season story arc explanation and I think the way S5 was played out so perfectly lived up to that. Kripke's original idea was, as Dean would say, freakin' awesome but the stupid writer's strike threw him a curve that wound up marring it. But to the great credit of Kripke and the original writers, they were able to pull it off VERY, VERY well despite it all. I only wish that record could've been maintained last season and this season...sigh.
LOL, excellent comment. I think the problem is so many people watch while doing something else, instead of really watching. This is one series that you have to pay attention, not everything is spoken, like Sam rubbing his hand. But maybe I get it because I have watched each ep many times. Anyway thanks for TRYING to clear things up and I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, rehabber. Sam is most definitely not alright and it's been perfectly obvious. He doesn't have to be stark raving nuts every week, waving his gun around at an imaginary Lucifer to make the point. The point is that he's trying to keep a handle on it because he doesn't want to burden Dean with that on top of everything else they're dealing with. He's said to Dean multiple tiimes now "you have to let me stand up on my own and deal with my own stuff" and that's his way of putting it into practice. But that does NOT mean he's ok...far from it.
ReplyDeleteApparently, as Jared indicates in this interview, his bandaid measure of squeezing his hand isn't going to work anymore and it's going to catch up with him. So we'll get that further "proof" that some people apparently need. Personally, I love how that part of the storyline has been handled so far...it's the Leviathans that have been bugging the crap out of me.
I'm not even addressing the whole "Destiel" thing because frankly it's beyond me and it's ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteAs for Jared being "off", again I think people are getting WAY, WAY took worked up over this. It's Hollywood...they do not shoot things in real time, they mix up the shooting schedule all the time. They'll do it again to work around Jared. I serously doubt Sam will be completely removed from the show.
Deep breaths....deep breaths....
Oh and don't forget the part Baby played in bringing Sam back so he could take over Lucifer. Swan Song is my favorite ep and I still sob each time.
ReplyDeleteUm, we've only seen half the season so how can you possibly know what they've planned or how they'll handle it? How about waiting until it plays out first...I have a feeling it will be just fine.
ReplyDeleteHave to agree there...that's the main thing that's bugged me last season and this. Dean has just not been Dean. Where's the protective big brother? I know he's dealing with letting Sam be a grown up, but that does that mean he stops caring altogether? And the whiny/emo crap has been totally overdone. That's why I loved this past week's episode...that was closer to the Dean...and Sam...we know and love. I just hope it wasn't just a tease and we'll never see that side of them again! But I'm willing to wait and watch and find out! :)
ReplyDeleteReally the only thing that is bugging me this season is the lack of movement on the Levi front. But the rest of the season does sound very interesting and I am going to enjoy the ride.
ReplyDeleteI've watched most episodes multiiple times too because there's usually some little detail/details I missed the first time through.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, I could never forget baby...as Dean said, nobody puts baby in a corner! :D Baby was the physical representation of family/home/love...the qualities that enabled the Winchesters to overcome everything else. That's why baby being gone this season is royally pissing me off. I really hope she comes back soon!
It was wrong to scapegoat Sam for everything and hold Castile accountable for nothing in S 4 and I wish before Castiels stay on the series concludes they'd finally reveal everything in S4 kripke swept under the rug when Season 5 opened Its long overdue to vindicate Sam on this nonsense hes only to blame and try to portray him as the villain of this story when Castiel and the Angels own that role as they orchestrated it and were intentionally trying to start the Apocalypse and could have stopped the seals from breaking whenever they wanted. Dean and Sam were both pawns and victims Both were played,not sam alone. And they have yet to acknowledge that half of the equation that Castile was Deans Ruby or the huge role the Angel played in getting Sam to Lilith. It was a horrible betrayal of this character Sam Winchester and to continue this lie is to still betray him.
ReplyDeleteI watch each episode at least twice its my own personal rule of thumb. You see things a second time you never imagined you would
"
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with what Jared said in regards to Cas was that he makes it all sound like Cas balmes Sam for the whole apocolyse mess, when it wasnt all his fault. Cas had his own role to play in that as did Dean but Sam is the only one being blamed/judged for it. If Cas comes back all self righteous and well a dick I am not going to be happy."
That's the way the show has consistently played out though - the show never even once brought up either Castiel releasing Sam from the panic room or that Zachariah changed Dean's VM to Sam. Heck, I was even waiting for Anna to "bust Cas" in 5.13 but all she said was that Cas was a good little soldier and would do anything under orders, especially getting her thrown in prison upstairs. I was furious because that was the perfect time for Cas's "Crimes against Humanity" to finally see the light of day because Cas certainly played a large part in releasing Lucifer.
New Cas seems to be confused and not remember anything? - sort of of like the Wall Death put up in Sam's mind. And if Cas doesn't remember anything - how long can Dean seriously be "mad at him" before they "make up"? I want to know how the heck Cas got his Jimmy Novak meatsuit back ,,, Cas's angel form I can understand because the Levi's would not necessarily been capable of killing Cas the angel and just "ate their way" out of Jimmy's body.
Definitely agree with you here.
ReplyDeleteI have always seen Castiel as Dean's Ruby.
In fact there is a dualism throughout that story-arc.
Sam portayed as the Demon brother and Dean as the Angel one, both with their "side-kicks", Ruby for Sam and Castiel for Dean.
Both "side-kicks" tried to use the brothers to further the plan they were given to carry out.
Both tried to get their trust, and both gave a helping hand and saved Sam and Dean in various occasions, when it didn't interfere with their final plans, in order to further that trust.
What happened, I think though, was that Castiel found a fan-following that the writers didn't expect and so they made him more ambiguous, in order that he could be directed more towards good or bad, as the moment dictated.
However you correctly listed all the negative actions that Castiel performed and that, in my books puts him on the same level as Ruby.
It's true that they have not told Dean that it was Castiel that opened the door to the panic room and let Sam out, something that Dean should know.
Let me say that I hated the ending of Season Five.
The Dean I know would never have sacrificed his brother to eternal torment, having already experienced it himself to save that same brother.
Together they would have come up with something else, for the future seen in "The End" had already been changed, simply by the fact that Dean had phoned Sam and they had gotten back together again.
You haven't mentioned Season 6 where we see the true nature of Castiel coming through. He wants to take over Heaven and is willing to go with the King of Hell to achieve his goal, not with Dean, but at the same time trying to pretend he is still good and interested in keeping Dean's trust and friendship!
I don' t know how these future episodes will play out, but for what Castiel has continually done to Sam, if I was Dean I certainly wouldn't forgive him!
You do have a point esp. how the season had begun--with Sam constantly researching a way to save Dean.
ReplyDeleteagree however it is unlikely to last, in the next episode we'll probably get a different Dean and a different Sam, the writer of the week seems to just mould the boys into whatever they want or need them to be to fit the episodes at times.
ReplyDeleteI take that to man Cas will be in 17, 18 and 19? I thought maybe his appearances would be spread out. I'm curious about this 3 episode arc.
ReplyDeletethey could film all the scenes without him in the episodes filming while he is off then shoot his when he comes back and glue it all together. I'm going assume thats what is going to happen though I do think it will be a reduced role for at least a few episodes. It makes sense.
ReplyDelete"My demon child is on the way, I'm good" LOL
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to Sam going a little (or a lot, I guess) crazy - I think it'll give Jared an opportunity to really show what he's made of! And at least those few Dean-centric episodes in a row make sense now.. I don't know how I didn't put it together before, but it totally makes sense.. Sam was never close to Castiel like Dean was, so his return (in whatever form) isn't going to affect him in the same way - he has his own demons to wrestle with, and when I think about it, it makes sense that Sam will step back a bit for Misha's return
ReplyDeleteI was interested in seeing him come back as a different character as well - I'm happy to have him back, as I felt like I deserved closure just as much as Sam and Dean, but I was hoping to see him back as someone else. We'll see, I guess!
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what you're saying, I simply woondered if Jared would miss any episodes due to his time off. Its a question that needs to be asked and hasnt been. There is a strong possiblilty that they will have to factor in Sam light episodes to accommodate him. I think the fans have the right to know?
ReplyDeleteIf you read all my posts you'll see that a number of people agree with me that therese are questions that need to be asked and havent been so far. There is nothing wrong with wanting answers. Its not overreacting or being an idiot or whatever. Answers allow us to make informed descisions rather than having to jump to conclusions.
Please dont respond to my posts if you dont understand what I'm trying to say or simply ask for some clarification.
Please dont respond to my posts if you are going to be rude. If you dont get it just ask.
ReplyDeletepresent yes but how much?
ReplyDeleteThere's no doubt that the story could have gone differently.
ReplyDeleteRemember that Lilith tried to kill Sam when Dean was killed by the hell hound, but he was immune to her power, and I'm sure he could have opened one of the doors to Hell, with a spell or something, and gone in himself to drag Dean out.
The writers probably threw some ideas about, came up with the angel thing to contrast with the Sam/demon one and went with that.
I can't deny though that I would loved to have seen Sam stalk into Hell and free his brother, taking out demons to the left and right! :)
whose to say the Leviathans dont come after Sam while in the nut house, maybe he has to escape or maybe Dean has to rescue him
ReplyDeleteYou really don't watch the show very closely do you? Jimmy asked Cas to take him again instead of his daughter. I am not forgiving Cas for what he did to Sam, but he thought he was doing the right thing when he worked with Crowley and was played by the angels just like the brothers were.
ReplyDeleteGosh maybe they should just send a script to you..don't you think you are over reacting just a tiny bit? Supernatural is a great series that I feel sure will be able to work around Jared and his "demon baby".
ReplyDelete1. Who was responding to you? There are a lot of Sam-centric fans panicking in this thread. My response was a general one to what I think is jumping to conclusions.
ReplyDelete2. Who's being rude? I didn't call anyone names or make any insulting remarks, I simply pointed out that most TV shows don't film in real time, they change up the shooting schedule all the time. Sorry, but that's a fact.
If you're referring to the "take a breath" remark...again, it was just meant in general for all the people who seem to be panicking, which I feel is unnecessary. Honestly, it wasn't intended to be rude...frankly, I was more bemused than anything.
-That was a hell of a lot more more than a few Dean cenric episodes in a row, try a 13 episode arc and Sam has been stepping bacf all season.
ReplyDeleteI think it was you that pointed out, when Jensen directed his first ep, it was shot way out of order. Some times different units are even shooting different ep scenes on the same day. Which I think would be very confusing to the actors, but our guys pull it off without a hitch. lol Gotta love my favorite series.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about what's happened previously this season - I'm talking about the episodes when Misha will be back, which have been described as more "Dean-centric". I'm not disputing that Sam's been underutilized this season, I just understand why those three particular episodes won't have a heavy focus on him.
ReplyDeleteSam doing yoga haha.. actually, I wouldn't put it past him.. but his limbs might be too long for that :)
ReplyDeleteI'm not panicking. I'm pissed off. There's a difference. Sam has a character and Sam's fans have been repeatedly screwed over and thrown under the bus since Season 4. Simply put, we're fed up. We don't trust the writers to give Sam the sympathy and emotional development that he deserves. They're just gonna throw him in an Asylum? Really? Why, because Dean's too busy emoing over himself to actually help his brother, and helping doesn't constitute screaming at him or bitching at him either. He's barely been there at all this season for Sam, and Sam's been too busy worrying over poor emo Dean yet again. I have no faith and no trust in these writers to do for Sam what he deserves.
ReplyDeleteGosh, what is your problem with coming on here and being nasty to people who don't share your opinion? tvmonkey said nothing about wanting them to 'send the script to her' and your comment was uncalled for. We're tired of there always being some way for the writers to sideline Sam. You don't have to agree with her, me or anybody else who feels the way that we do, but it doesn't give you the right to criticize us for being worried or upset or just flat out sick of it either. If you're happy with the show and the way things are going, good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts. Stop criticizing those who don't agree with you.
ReplyDeleteRetcon is short for etroactive continuity. From dictionary.com (because I am often unclear in my explanations) -- The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.
ReplyDeleteAh ok, that makes sense...I suppose. Never heard that term before. Thanks for the explanation!
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was me. Jared and Jensen pointed it out in their commentary on "Phantom Traveler" in the S1 disc set...they were constantly filming one scene from one episode then moving directly to a scene from another episode entirely and back to the original episode. Generally, it would happen due the availability of a director or an actor (Jeffrey Dean Morgan Syndrome, anyone? :D). When Jensen directed, they filmed those episodes first even though neither one aired first, so that it would be out of the way for Jensen and he could get back to focusing on acting. So I have no doubt they'll do, or possibly have already done, the same thing for Jared so that he can get his time off without it disrupting the continuity of the show.
ReplyDeleteAnd please don't be rude. Everyone here is allowed an opinion. I got what you were saying, it was very clear right here "Hate it because I know it means less Sam/no Sam for a while, even possibly for the rest of the season."
ReplyDeleteThat was what I responded to. Perhaps you don't understand.
Sam betrayed Dean by picking Ruby over him. I think that has dulled his brotherly instincts, but I still think they're there. I think the biggest reason Dean was hurt by Castiel's betrayal, wasn't the whole he went on a killing spree, but more because he hurt his brother. It won't be easy for Dean to forgive him.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been THIS EXCITED about Supernatural in a long time!! I wish we can just skip to Episode 17 already!!
ReplyDeletePoor Sammy! But, frankly, as much I don't want to rush this awesome season along too fast, when the episodes do get here, they are going to be great! I hope we get some good news soon about early pickup for season 8. Now, THAT would be just fantastic!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I know why Dean was upset with Sam, but it's been more than a full season since then, you'd think he would have moved past it by now. I think they'd begun to put that behind them at the end of Season 5 but for some reason Sera and co. don't see to want to let it go. Personally, I think it's been overdone. And no, Dean's problem with Cas has nothing to do with the killing...it has to do with his refusing to listen when Dean tried to talk him out of going ahead with his plan to open up Purgatory. In essence, he did the same exact thing as Sam, chose a demon over his 'brother', in this case Crowley rather than Ruby. It was bad enough having one brother betray him, he didn't need to have it happen again. And yeah, it won't be easy to forgive.
ReplyDeleteI'll probably get killed for asking this but what exactly did Cas do to Sam? Other than bringing him back without a soul which, as far as we know, was unintentional. The only thing we know he intentionally did was break down the wall in Sam's head, which obviously is enough for Dean to be pissed about, I'll grant you. But you make it sound as if Cas has continually been tormenting Sam.
ReplyDeleteI take some exception to the Ruby/Cas comparison. The difference is that Ruby did what she did knowing the price Sam would ultimately pay for it. Castiel, on the other hand, was genuinely an innocent. He believed that he had no choice but to follow orders up until the end of Season 5, then when Dean taught him that you always have the option of free will, he used his and made the wrong choice. Not excusing him for it, but that's the peril of free will...it's often put to the wrong ends.
And finally, as for the ending of Season 5...the whole POINT was Dean stepping outside of his gut reaction to let Sam go. It was the deal he made with Death and further, it was the necesary step he had to take, both to save the world and as a big brother...it was time to let Sam stand on his own two feet and do what he had to do. Yes, it was out of character for the Dean we knew up to that point and the entire point of ending the Apocalypse the way they did was having BOTH brothers make the hardest choice they'd ever had to make...Sam to jump, Dean to let him go. Together, those two very, very human choices overcame all the power of the angels and demons. Whatever flaws we have seen last season and this, that part of this series was handled brilliantly, imo.
Sorry, but I don't see anyone scapegoating Sam. Dean admitted he was just as responsible as Sam since he broke the first seal. Yes, they have never revealed either Cas letting Sam out of the panic room or the changed phone message from Sam to Dean, both of which bug the heck out of me, but I don't see anyone involved with the show making Sam out to be a villain of any kind. Clearly, Sam and Dean have been represented as nothing but heros from day one!
ReplyDeleteI think she meant how Cas is getting his meat suit back now, after the Leviathans melting it. Remember, Cas was blown to smithereens at least twice before that and was brought back both times. God may not have been represented on screen (unless you still believe Chuck was God) but he is still out there, so anything's possible.
ReplyDeleteThis is a public site and anyone is free to post/respond to anyone elses remarks if they choose. Again, I don't see anyone being rude to your anybody else in this thread. And we understand what you're saying perfectly well...we simply don't agree with it. There's a difference.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, as the audience we aren't going to GET answers ahead of time...that's not how the industry works. We'll get teasers, promos and little comments in interviews like the one Jared made and that's it. The only way we'll get any definite information is when the episodes themselves air. So there is no way for you to make an informed decision. Some of us are simply warning that it does no good to jump to conclusions in the abscence of that infomration.
Please stop telling us when or where to respond just because you don't like what we have to say.
What do you mean? I watch very closely and each episode multiple times quite frequently and I never even mentioned Jimmy's daughter, Claire. Castiel knew perfectly well "What" he was dealing with - the King of Hell - and he wasn't being played by the angels (and demons) as the boys were. He even cited that he was following Dean's examples but was absolutely convinced that he'd be the one superior being who would put one over on Crowley because was an angel not a lower than dirt demon.
ReplyDeleteCastiel had an loyal angel army of his own and Balthazar's stolen Heaven's Weapons in his armory. He did not have to go after Purgatory to defeat Raphael. I dislike the introduction of Angels (and God) to the storyline,
loathe Castiel and ways have and you're not to change my opinion so don't even bother. My actual question was that in various interviews, it's been said that Castiel's body (his vessel. Jimmy) was destroyed by the Leviathans when Levia!Cas entered the water. So where did the angel form of Castiel get a "new Jimmy vessel"? Did God resurrect Jimmy and Castiel popped in (because of the "open phone line between a vessel and his angel"); is the "Jimmy body" a Levi empty clone that again Cas popped into; did angel Cas "call in some favors" as Anna did. There's no show canon that establishes an angel can create an appropriate vessel by him/herself - that's why Raphael needed to "shop for a new vessel" after Balthazar turned his male vessel to salt.
ITA, Me, either.
ReplyDeleteI think they're gonna make us wait till May
ReplyDeleteI didnt imply the Cas eps wouldnt be Sam heavy, in fact it looks like 17 at least will be Sam centric with Cas coming back. The Dean part might not even be that big of a deal/not the main focus of the episode(s) Cas is back for. It was you who implied they would be more Dean centric and Sam would/should step back.
ReplyDeleteI thought I had read in previous posts that those episodes would be lighter on Sam, but perhaps I misunderstood what was really going on. The numbers are starting to run together, and 17 seems to be the only fixed point around which I'm working - so sorry if I implied something that wasn't true, it was just the impression that I got
ReplyDeleteYeah, it always botheredme that Lilith tried to kill Sam. Why would she do that if she needed him to break the last seal? There were other things in the show that didn't add up either.
ReplyDeletenice comment and I agree with every thing. Cas was lied to by his bosses, he did not know the higher Angels wanted the Apocalypse, but when he found out he really went off the reservation working with Crowley. Still he did a very bad thing when he broke Sam's wall and it did not have the expected out come of Dean standing down. Cas said he was sorry, but there will have to be more to it, I think/Hope.
ReplyDeleteWhat Dean did by letting Sam be a man and not a child was the hardest thing he had ever done.
I have to disagree. They knew the strike was likely and could have begun to set up the storyline to continue into season four without angels if they really wanted to. I wasn't fond of the season five arc because of the antagonism between the brothers for something the angels caused. I was particularly annoyed and frustrated because Sam was being vilified in the show and the fandom was picking up on that. For example, where does Cas get off calling Sam an abomination when Cas helped orchestrate the apocalypse?
ReplyDeleteAnother reason I don't believe in a well-planned and plotted 5-year arc is because Kripke completely dropped the special children storyline because he got bored with it. Again, I think he had just a vague outline.
OH, sorry, I misunderstood, but since the Leviathans LOVE water what is to say that Cas did not blow up. Maybe the Levis just left his body and since we still don't know what Cas is going to be, I have not worried about that....yet. lol I am not one to worry about an ep that has not aired. I think you are the same way..right?
ReplyDeleteOkay, maybe what it boils down to is that I want Sam and Dean to know the WHOLE story. I want them to know everything that the angels did, especially Cas.
ReplyDeleteThis is actually a response to the post below but the stupid reply screen was so narrow I coudn't read what I was typing! :p
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo...Lilith came to realize that she would have to die to bring about the apocalypse and decided she didn't want it to happen (remember the episode where she trie d to seduce Sam and then make a deal with him?). It was Ruby who wanted her killed and prevented her from killing Sam in the final episode of S3.
Also CW is very bad about putting things in promos that never show up in the ep. It happens so often that I usually don't even watch the promo.
ReplyDeleteWhy not wait and see what happens first? This show has always had twists and turns and usually they are not what you expect. I'm looking forward to the episode. I seriously doubt they will toss Sam in the Asylum and forget about him. I've been frustrated as well with they way Sam has been written of late but I have faith in the show, in the end they always come through.
ReplyDeleteHe never claimed to have every little detail worked out, just a general outline. And he admitted that the special kids storyline turned out weaker than he wanted so he pulled the plug on it. He was right about that. He was also the one who decided to burn down the Roadhouse for the same reason. It happens...people change their minds. Doesn't negate the plan he had drawn out. Just sometimes when you start putting it down in writing and it takes on a life of its own you have to change directions with it. As a writer myself, I know that feeling.
ReplyDeleteOh and, nobody vilified Sam. I really think that whole thing is blown out of proportion. Cas' 'abomination' remark had to do with Sam drinking the demon's blood. Remember, he stil lbelieved in destiny at the time, that you had to do what you were destined to do. I think he came to realize there was more to Sam than that. He also refused to kill Sam and said "he's my friend"...how come everyone is so quick to dismiss that?
You can reply to her arguments without making assumptions about how closely she may or may not watch the show. That is very condescending.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I misunderstood, since the story line has not been shown I have not worried about how or what Cas will be. I will let the excellent writers take care of that problem and I will just enjoy. I do hope it will come to pass that Cas can be redeemed in the boys eyes.
ReplyDeleteWell, for a start Sam was the one who prayed and believed in God but Castiel goes straight to Dean.
ReplyDeleteWhen Castiel and Sam do meet Sam tries to shake hands with him but Castiel hesitates and calls him "the boy with the demon blood".
From then on they never really bond. Castiel interacts with him more to keep on Dean's good side that anything else, and I'm sure Sam realises this.
Then Sam is angry when Castiel and Uriel kidnap Dean to torture Alastair, and nearly get Dean killed through their incompetence, ending up having to use his demon powers to save Dean from Alastair.
Castiel let Sam out of the panic room, behind Dean's back, thus allowing him to free Lucifer.
He dragged Sam out of Hell without a soul allowing that soul to be terribly damaged. If he had told Dean that Sam was out of Hell, Dean could have found a way to get his soul back more quickly.
He told Crowley that he didn't want Dean involed with hunting now that he had the apple-pie life, but he had no qualms about pulling Sam out of Hell soulless to do the heavy hunting work for Crowley.
Sam tells Dean trhat he had tried calling for Castiel many times after coming out of Hell and he had never showed up, but the first time Dean calls him he comes right away, leaving Sam gaping like an idiot.
Castiel lied to both Sam and Dean all through season six pretending he was goody-goody but secretly in alliance with Crowley and allowing Crowley to blackmail the brothers into hunting Alphas for him.
He kept trying to persuade Dean not to put Sam's soul back into him as it would cause great damage. Obviously he would have preferred that Sam suffer in Hell for eternity!
Castiel was always listening in to the boys' conversations and who knows how many of the bad things that happened in season six were due to the information he received.
He brings down Sam's wall, which is a major thing because he does it deliberately, even although he could just have sent them off to China or somewhere!
These are only the things that come to mind, but I'm sure there are many other moments during the various episodes.
Both Ruby and Castiel were following orders, one from Lilith and one from a supposed God. Both had end-games, so I don' t really see the difference.
I will never like the essence of Swan Song.
Everyone had a hand in starting the apocalypse.
Dean broke the first seal, Castiel did his bit culminating with letting Sam out of the panic room, and Sam by killing Lilith.
Sam thought it was to stop the apocalypse, otherwise he wouldn't have done it, but he was the one who paid the ultimate price with 180 years in Hell and a shattered psyche.
Castiel got killed but was brought back to life as was Bobby, while Dean got a year of so-so suburban family life!
I know a lot of people like it, so fair enough, but I never will as I would never have chosen an ending that separated the brothers. I'm just glad it wasn't the series finale.
OK, I'm off to sleep.
Did you miss my previous response? Cass' Jimmy vessel has been destroyed and brought back at least twice before. In Cas' big explanation when he talked about being destroyed at the end of S5, he also talked about being brought back...I think the implication there was that God had done it. If he did it then, he can do it now.
ReplyDeleteExactly...they're not going to divulge any key details in interviews either. If they did that, they'd run the risk of people getting pissed off and not bothering to watch the show. Their purpose is to maintain their audience and they do that by teasing us so that we have to keep watching to find out the rest. That's just the way it works, folks.
ReplyDeleteLOL I was thinking the same thing. I mean jeez, it's not like Castiel's vessel hasn't been blown up once or twice. :)
ReplyDeleteFor what, the news on Season 8? There are already whispers that it's likely to happen. The networks usally make those decisions in the end of January/ beginning of February. Only reason it dragged on last year was because the CW was in the process of hiring a new chief exec. That shouldn't be a problem this year, so expect an officially announcement in a few weeks or so. :)
ReplyDeleteYou made excellent points in both posts that demonstrate a solid understanding of the show, characters, canon and continuity.
ReplyDeleteI'm replying to the question about Lilith trying to kill Sam and Ruby stopping her..I'm confused, wasn't Lilith in Ruby during that scene at the end of S3? Maybe I need another marathon, does not take much for me to start a new one. lol
ReplyDeleteA number of characters took shots at Sam for starting the Apocalypse.
ReplyDeleteIn On the Head of a Pin, Cas excused Dean for breaking the first seal because it was his destiny, but he calls Sam an abomination for his role in breaking the seals. Cas knew Sam would need to drink the demon blood – Sam was playing out his role just like Dean.
With friends like Cas, Sam didn't need any enemies.
Wow...where do I start? Castiel was SENT to pull Dean out of Hell..he followed his orders. And in the process he brought Sam's brother back to him...that was a good thing.
ReplyDeleteThe 'boy with the demon blood' remark was insensitive but it was also true. That was a fact, like it or not. And Cas is an angel, he didn't understand the human practice of couching the truth. For that same reason, he never really "bonded" with anyone...that's just a factor of his being an angel. Not intentional and it had nothing to do with keeping on Dean's good side...Cas had no emotions, he wouldn't have understood what that even meant.
The thing with Alistair was Uriel's doing, not Cas'. When Cas found out what was going on he tried to stop it himself, but he didn't have the power to stop an archangel. Yes, he did let Sam out of the panic room...again, he was still following orders there. It was not done maliciously. He thought he was doing the right thing.
Yes, he pulled Sam out of Hell without a soul but he claims he didn't realize that...he didn't realize it until Dean had him check midway through the season. I think once he did realize, that's when he began questioning the choices he'd made but by then he'd started down his dark road.
Not justifying the whole plan with Crowley, it was a bad decision...trying to do the right thing but choosing the wrong way of going about it. Sound familiar? It should...it's what Sam did with Ruby. Like I said in another post, free will doesn't always work out for the best. Cas found that out the hard way.
Yes, Cas didn't show up when Sam called, because he knew he couldn't give him the answers he wanted. He was wrong to do that, but he was conflicted. He made a mistake. You don't want us chastizing Sam for his mistakes (and neither do I!), then you can't do the same with Cas. What's good for the goose and all that.
Agreed on bringing the wall down. As I said, that was Cas' one big, intentional action against Sam and for that he carries guilt. But not the rest. Not any more than Sam or Dean anyway.
We can agree to disagree on Swan Song. I would've prefered an ending that kept the brothers together too but I undestand why Kripke opted to go the way he did. It was certainly not the easy choice...the fan reaction alone proves that...but he had the courage to make it anyway and it was pulled off brilliantly.
One final point, though...in listing everyone who had a hand in bringing about the apocalypse you left out the most obvious suspect of all...Ruby. She was NOT following Lilith's orders...that was just the bs story she wove for Sam to get him to do her bidding. She was acting on her own, to earn brownie points with Lucifer. If anyone should bear the blame for the apocalypse, it's her.
So do I, but that brings us back to the point of this whole thread, with everyone wanting to know exactly how Jared's absence is going to be handled. As the Rolling Stones said...you don't always get what you want.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah. I may take the occassional guess but I know it's not worth getting worked up without having all the facts, so why bother? :)
ReplyDeleteThis show is full of little details, its easy to miss something the first time you watch an episode, which is why many of us watch episodes repeatedly. It was a fair assumption to make that maybe she'd missed a detail, not an insult. People need to stop being so thin skinned...just because someone disagrees with you it's not necessarily an attack!
ReplyDeleteI believe you're right...Lilith abandoned the little girl and entered Ruby's meat suit. It was why Ruby had to find a new meat suit in S4, which really worked out for Jared in the long run! :D
ReplyDeleteAgain, Cas called Sam an abomination because of the demon blood...it lterally made Sam a combination of human and demon, thus something an angel would consider a disgrace...the defintion of 'abomination'.
ReplyDeleteYes, he drank it to help fulfill his destiny but that had nothing to do with Cas' reaction. He wasn't disgusted by what Sam did but by what he was. Dean was following his destiny too, yes, but he didn't have demon blood in him when he did it. It was a biological fact Cas was recognizing, not a personal judgement of Sam's character...as an angel, Cas doesn't have emotions, he can't make that kind of judgement.
When he said he wouldn't kill Sam because he was his friend, he had begun to discover the human side of himself...THAT was a genuine statement of judgement. Once he began to realize what Sam and Dean were teaching him, he began to see Sam in a new light.
Wow, good for you. It must make you so much more superior than us currently unhappy fans because you're satisfied. I mean you evidently feel the need to reprimand us by accusing us of panicking because YOU feel it's (the way we feel) unnecessary. Amazing how earlier before the season began, Dean fans were flipping out because they were convinced Dean would be neglected this season because he didn't "have his own story" yet it turned out to be completely the opposite. You guys were consoled and people supported you, yet now that Sam fans are voicing how upset we are and disappointed, we're told that we're being ridiculous and how we feel is unnecessary. How is that even right or fair? All this show has done all season long is focus on Dean and Dean's emotions and Dean this and Dean that. One Dean-centric episode after the other. I'm sick of it and I feel Sam deserves better, but considering the writers have repeatedly let me down every season since S4, one episode after another (and I know I'm not the only Sam fan who feels this way), it's not unnecessary that I've lost any hope or faith in this show to do Sam any justice. That's just my opinion and how I feel. I shouldn't have to be told that how I feel is unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteI knew someone would mention that. Ruby was working for Lilith. I don't think they decided at the end of S3 that Lilith would have to die to break the last seal.
ReplyDeleteThese columns are getting too small. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
ReplyDeleteFirst off...despite my handle, I am not one of the people who was panicking before the season started about Dean not being neglected, so don't lump me in there. I don't feel jumping to that conclusion was any more right than the people in this thread jumping to the conclusion that Sam is going to be completely written out of the rest of the season because Jared's wife is having a baby.
ReplyDeleteThe simple fact is that none of us can know for certain what's going to happen and panicking and jumping to conclusions just serves to stress you out and zap any of the enjoyment out of the show for you. If that's what you want for yourself, then knock yourself out. I don't see why anyone would choose that approach, but that's just me.
I don't like everything that's happened this season and last (how you can find fault with Season 5 and say that Sam wasn't treated fairly in that season is beyond me, but that's your opinion. Apparently his having to be Lucifer's vessel wasn't "fair" I guess. I happen to think the entire thing was handled brilliantly) myself, but I can't control what the writer's do. I can only sit back and enjoy the ride, whatever it brings.
Watching a show like this is something like riding a roller coaster. You can ask to be handed a detailed map when you get on so that you know EXACTLY where it's going and when the rises and drops will occur or you can just get in, fasten your seatbelt and go for a ride. Seems to me that the latter would be more fun.
Iroincally, I don't even LIKE roller coasters, but I'm strapped in waiting for whatever comes around the next bend for this one...we'll find out when we get there.
I agree it is easy to miss details on the first viewing. CyanaT's response showed that she was well versed in the details of the show. rehabber didn't have an argument so she tried to diminish CyanaT's argument with a snarky comment. Her tone was if you don't see it her way then you "don't watch the show" and don't know what you are talking about. At least that's how I interpreted her comment.
ReplyDeleteLOL, I loved The French Mistake..."you married Ruby?" So much to love in that ep. A show that does not mind making fun of its self about not many people watch. That ep to me was classic SPN.
ReplyDeleteYou have every right to complain about what you feel is a slight toward Sam, but have you heard the expression Beating a Dead Horse? Once you have had your say several times, what do you think saying the same thing several more times is going to help.
ReplyDeleteI like the roller coaster thing, most of the time it is a good ride, very few times I feel like it is a hobby horse instead, but still would not miss out on the ride. lol Looking forward to the rest of the ride this season.
ReplyDeleteWell you interpreted the comment wrong. I have already told her I misunderstood what she was talking about. She was talking about something that has not even happened yet and I thought she was talking about Cas getting back into Jimmy in S4. So please don't try and put words in my mouth.
ReplyDeleteOh wow. Yet again another one of you who feels superior. Nice to know that my feelings toward what's happening is nothing but beating a dead horse. You know, you could really stand to learn some manners and stop being rude to people who don't fucking agree with you. Beat your dead horse elsewhere. I'm tired of hearing you reprimand me and others. Hello Pot, meet Kettle.
ReplyDeleteomg yay yay yay yay yay yay yay~
ReplyDeleteLOL, are you the pot or the kettle?
ReplyDeleteI understand that you are upset, but why are you liking your own posts? That makes it seem that more people are agreeing with your opinions than actually are. I understand why you have two accounts here (tvmonkey and reedmac) due to the home/work thing, but I'm beginning to think that many of these posters are the same person using different names. Maybe that's why it feels like we've had these conversations over and over again.
ReplyDeleteLOL, okay, some of the comments are highly amusing, in that "guuuurl, you crazy!" kind of whay, but it would be better for everyone to take a step back and a deep breath.
ReplyDeleteDon't let the insanity of this fandom seep in guys!
Please get over your superiority complex, it's making me lose braincells.
ReplyDeleteCreative and serendipitous (with a baby on the way to get some paternity leave) way to take a character out of a few episodes without taking him out of a few episodes. Glad everything is going well for Gen and Jared and their "demon child" :) It is wonderful that Supernatural writers and production work around their stars.
ReplyDeleteCastiel comes back as Castiel or another incarnation? Sounds like Castiel will be real, interacting with Dean so not part of Sam's hallucinations (which was how I thought he would come back). Exciting times coming up for the Winchesters and the fans! Now if only Feb. 3 would hurry up and get here.
LOL, not going to touch this one with a 10' pole..
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't expect an official announcement until at the very earliest late March/early April, although I would definitely expect an 8th season since both actors are already contracted. However, it would be very odd for them to make an announcement without at least seeing some spring ratings and definitely not before sweeps have ended.
ReplyDeleteAnd I sincerely hope that Dean has more to do than angst/worry about Sam.
ReplyDeleteLOL. I guess Dean's giving Sam the same treatment Sam gave Dean when Dean got back from hell.
ReplyDeleteGuess so, since you refuse to see anything positive in Cas. To each their own.
ReplyDeleteOk, I'll touch it then. Who the hell is acting superior? We're just stating our opinions, same as anyone else but because they don't agree with yours we're automatically "rude" and "nasty". Pot and kettle is right...glad you at least acknowledge it!
ReplyDeleteI realize the spring ratings are important, but they've been known to make these decisions earlier than that. Particularly since both leads are contracted through season 8, the ratings can't make too huge a difference. The new chief exec has already been quoted as saying season 8 "looks good". The spring ratings would have to display a drastic drop to change that.
ReplyDeleteI did some research and you may be right. I hope so. Renewal dates so far are:
ReplyDeleteseason 2 - May 17 ( during upfronts)
season 3 - May 15 (I believe upfronts again)
season 4 - March 3
season 5 - Feb. 24 (wow that was early)
season 6 - Feb. 16 (again surprisingly early)
season 7 - April 26
season 8 - ???
I still think that since ratings are fairly even across the board for the CW, with the exception of Vampire Diaries, we're looking more like an April renewal notice or late March. I don't think they will wait until upfronts because they are going to want to get some steam for the network. Wondering if a show is going to be canceled can get the network some buzz, but it doesn't seem to have a positive effect on ratings. I would also expect a significant drop-off in ratings for a lot of CW shows in spring. They normally do. The question will be whether these drops will be static throughout the netlet or if one or two shows will drop significantly more than others. Of course, if the ratings continue to freefall each year, the CW as a whole might be what is dropped.
Even if all he does is worry about Sam, it'll be more POV and plot than Sam's had the first half of this season. Honestly the little bit of plot that Sam HAS had has been mainly about getting him out of the way so that Dean can have adventures/bond with side characters/emo out/etc. Like AIB, where they literally tied Sam up in a corner out of the way, and had him exit stage left in almost every other scene so that Dean could have a close-up moment (wandering back to the car so the little girl could thank Dean (even though Sam actually killed the monster and was the one who wanted to help her in the first place), going to sleep so Dean could do his weird smile thing, etc). Sam has been little more than pretty plot wallpaper this season. Guest characters had more to do, say, feel than Sam does most eps. If the writers actually give Sam this story arc and focus on HIS pov for once, it'll be long overdue. So even though I love Dean too, I'm perfectly fine with him not having much "to do" during Sam's little 3-ep arc, considering that we're coming out of a 13 ep Dean arc. He's had his POV and focus - now it's Sam's turn (hopefully).
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's tiresome to have to be constantly frustrated as well, though. When your favorite character gets less growth and POV than the one-shot guest characters, has important story arcs dropped without reason, and is treated like a third wheel plot-wise rather than half of the main cast, it's frustrating as hell. I doubt anyone would be complaining about Jared potentially having a lighter presence in the last few eps if there had been balance in the rest of the season, but since Sam has been treated like more of a prop than a character for the last 13 episodes (excluding the first two eps), we were really counting on the end of the season to hopefully make up for that. People are frustrated about Sam being neglected in terms of growth and POV already, so even LESS screen time is just salt in the wound. Had he been given equal treatment for the last 13 eps, we wouldn't be bothered by some Sam-light eps.
ReplyDeleteAs it is, no one is suggesting that he should not take time off, or condemning him for it - we all seem to understand that his family is what's most important and that it's understandable and right for him to take time off. We all seem to be on board with it, to use your words - we're just upset with the writers/producers/etc for so seriously neglecting Sam's character this season.
I think you're projecting a LOT of unverified motivations and thoughts onto Cas here - that may be YOUR interpretation of how Cas saw Sam, drinking demon blood, etc. But that's certainly not been shown in canon. There's no way to know that Cas was commenting on "biological fact" as opposed to character observation - that's simply speculation on your part. You can't definitively say that that had "nothing to do with Cas' reaction", etc, because there is no canonical basis for that - just your personal opinion.
ReplyDeleteAnd Dean may not have had demon blood in him when he broke the first seal, but he was TORTURING people. Incidentally, the very thing that turns souls into demons. Don't you think that if an angel sees ingesting the essence of a demon as "a disgrace" that he would see torturing souls and heading down the path to demon-hood as disgraceful as well?
I don't even want to think about CW going away, since I watch 6 series on it, more than any other network. Also was glad to see that SPN was catching up with TSC in ratings. Maybe that should be TSC is dropping in ratings, either or, I just want SPN in second place or wishful thinking first. lol
ReplyDeleteActually, I think you're the one misrepresenting the canon here. Dean was torturing people, yes, but Cas wasn't going to pass judgement on him for that (even if he could, but as an angel...according to the canon...he can't) because it was necessary. It was the act of torturing others that broke the first seal...something Cas, at the time, felt was necessary, as part of the "orders" they were all following. Therefore, not a disgrace.
ReplyDeleteSam he saw as something other than strictly human because he had demon blood in him. Again, for Cas calling him an abomination was simply stating fact. Once he began to understand what it truly means to be human, that's when he began to see Sam as something more than just the sum of his parts...and that's when he accepted him as a friend. I don't know about you, but it was all pretty clear to me.
Obviously ratings matter...they always do...I'm just saying that we've already had a fairly positive comment from the chief exec and the basic structure of the show remains in place for another year so it's not a huge risk on the network's part.
ReplyDeleteI knew I remembered them announcing earlier than April in the past. Hopefully they'll do it again this year! :)
That is also the way I understood it and no one could blame Dean for opening that first seal, more than Dean himself.
ReplyDeleteGonna jump in here. For what it's worth, this is the way I see it...
ReplyDeleteCas never wanted Dean to break the first seal. He told Dean they got to him too late. His issue was Sam was that angels were raised to see fallen angels as the worst possible abomination, and Sam was tied to Lucifer. Cas couldn't get past that.
As for fault with starting the apocalypse, Dean's fault lies in making a deal with a demon to bring Sam back from the dead. He knew it was wrong. It went against everything he was raised to believe, but he did it out of human weakness. That act led to a chain of events that put him in a position where he would break the first seal. Sam's fault lies in drinking demon blood and using his powers. He knew it was evil (that much came out when he was talking to his mother/self in When the Levee Breaks. But he did it out of human weakness. That act led to a chain of events that led to him breaking the last seal. Dean wasn't really to blame for breaking under torture, and Sam wasn't really to blame for breaking the last seal because he was decieved, but their sins came earlier. What bugs me is that Sam is always labeled as the boy who started the apocalypse. It should be the brothers who started the apocalypse.
There should have been more blame put on Dean, but several eps that was brought up, even Dean talking to the Doc in Sam, Interrupted, said he started it. That was a very funny interview and one of the first where they told the complete truth and were deemed crazy. lol
ReplyDeleteWhat they were going thru and what they were told I never blamed either of them.
Replying to Rehabber (the thread is getting too narrow):
ReplyDelete"There should have been more blame put on Dean, but several eps that was
brought up, even Dean talking to the Doc in Sam, Interrupted, said he
started it. That was a very funny interview and one of the first where
they told the complete truth and were deemed crazy. lol
What they were going thru and what they were told I never blamed either of them."
Yes, I agree. What the story was supposed to be goes back to Gabriel's message to Sam in Mystery Spot - that their need to save each other was their weakness, and the bad guys were using it against each other. Hearing now that the original plan was to have Sam use his powers trying to save Dean from Hell, I think the story would be been a lot clearer if they had gone ahead with the original plan. Instead, they introduced the angels and tried to link Sam to Lucifer with new character traits such as arrogance (which Sam never exhibited before season 4). They made saving Dean Sam's motivation by giving Sam an arguably distorted view that Dean was weak, or had been weakened in Hell, and that killing Lilith himself would be protecting his brother. But with addition of the demon blood influence and the insinuation of arrogance as a factor, it turned what was a pure motive (saving his brother) into making Sam look like he was belittling his brother.
Well said. I agree with your interpretation overall. I think the brothers'paths to breaking the seals have a lot of parallel elements and themes, but again Sam seems to reap most of the blame and scorn for the apocalypse. Personally I blame Cas at least as much as Sam or Dean, because unlike the brothers,he KNEW what he was doing when he opened the panic room door and let Sam out. Sam and Dean were pawns and could only see parts of the truth - Cas, as an angle, could see the whole big picture and therefore understood what it was that he was doing as opposedto being just a tool.
ReplyDeleteReplying to Nikita Ahn (again, the thread's too narrow!)
ReplyDelete"Well said. I agree with your interpretation overall. I think the
brothers'paths to breaking the seals have a lot of parallel elements and
themes, but again Sam seems to reap most of the blame and scorn for
the apocalypse. Personally I blame Cas at least as much as Sam or Dean,
because unlike the brothers,he KNEW what he was doing when he opened
the panic room door and let Sam out. Sam and Dean were pawns and could
only see parts of the truth - Cas, as an angle, could see the whole big
picture and therefore understood what it was that he was doing as
opposedto being just a tool."
The thing with Cas is that he was taught that angels were only supposed to enforce the will of God without question, and that failure to obey meant you became a fallen angel like Lucifer. This was unlike Sam and Dean who grew up believing in choice and free will. Cas really struggled with this when what his conscious was telling him (the apocalypse was wrong) contradicted orders from his angel superiors, which they said was the word of God. In Cas' defense, in season 4 he was always upfront about whose team he was playing for. When he came back from Heaven changed he told Dean right away that he wasn't following Dean any more. It was during that time period when he let Sam out and held Dean captive while Sam went off to kill Lilith.
I've read comments that Cas never came clean about his actions, but by admitting to Dean, while he was preventing Dean from contacting Sam, that Lilith was the final seal, he essentially admitted that he had been working to prevent Dean from stopping the Apocalypse.