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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Episode 7.07 - The Mentalists - Sneak Peek

1 Nov 2011

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193 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl1 November 2011 at 18:12

    Oh holy crap!

    ReplyDelete
  2. JMC001 November 2011 at 18:15

    Does have a point, she did kill 4 people just to keep her monster son alive.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Laurie Edwards1 November 2011 at 18:16

    That's some excellent acting going on there. I can't wait until Friday!

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  4. sharonally1 November 2011 at 18:18

    Up yours Dean .

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thomas1 November 2011 at 18:20

    Really?

    Dean's in the right here.  Dean had to kill Amy; sure, he should've told Sam, but Sam would've still walked off and, to Dean's words..."be a bitch".

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  6. Matan Bahar1 November 2011 at 18:26

    Ooooh, intense. Don't think this will end well.

    And yay for the returns of sneak peeks!

    ReplyDelete
  7. luis l1 November 2011 at 18:30

    Now i get it. It's not like other people says that Dean never trusted Sam, he didn't tell him anything because with the whole Lucifer thing it can be too much for him...

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  8. Valerie Mock1 November 2011 at 18:30

    but he didn't *have* to kill amy in the end. lenore started out killing humans but stopped and they let her live. amy was forced into a desperate situation but she was done, why wasn't that good enough this time? i love dean, and i understand he doesn't see shades of grey, that he can't because of the way he was raised. it makes sense to me why he killed her. but he's still not in the right about this one, i don't think.

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  9. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:34

    I don't know why Dean thinks he needed to kill Amy either, I mean remember Lucky? He killed people and Dean let him go because he sympathised with him? I'm not sure Dean is being entirely truthful with himself or Sam over his reasons for killing Amy.

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  10. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:36

    he admitted he thought it would be too much for Sam and that he didn't know that at the time Sam was going to just be OK after the whole shooting up the place incident with Lucifer. 

    I'm confused about the whole 'you nearly got us both killed' thing

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  11. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:37

    I'm going to say 1 word LUCKY

    ReplyDelete
  12. klutzy_girl1 November 2011 at 18:38

    I think Dean was talking about how Sam went off the deep end after the wall broke.

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  13. klutzy_girl1 November 2011 at 18:39

    Please make up soon, Sam and Dean!

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  14. andy1 November 2011 at 18:40

    And the Starks killed how many, and are still alive : \

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  15. BoxManLocke1 November 2011 at 18:41

    Wow, and I thought Dean would have learned something.

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  16. Felidae821 November 2011 at 18:42

    I understand that Sam is pissed at Dean, but Dean makes a pretty good case here and he didn`t even mentioned that Sam called Ruby a friend once too!

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  17. andy1 November 2011 at 18:42

    A hug would be great, too. 

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  18. Kati1 November 2011 at 18:44

    Interesting is that they are both right AND wrong. And that's the thing, they live in a world that's mostly grey so that every thing they do can be seen from both sides.

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  19. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:45

    This is still not getting to the heart of the matter for either brother, I have a feeling it might be dragged out for a few episodes yet. 

    Well at least the Dean girls get what they wanted, Sam is the one in the wrong again. 

    Which leaves me to wonder how this all fits with what SG was saying about Dean questioning his decisions? So far I haven't seen him do that at all. Dean seems pretty convinced he did the right thing, there doesn't seem to be any questioning of who he is or whether he can trust himself not does there seem to be any questioning of who he like we were told there would be. 

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  20. Justine Kubica1 November 2011 at 18:45

    Sorry, Sam, I get that you're pissed, but I'm wtih Dean on this one. And most important: make up soon guys! ;)

    ReplyDelete
  21. andy1 November 2011 at 18:46

    Personally the Amy thing seems secondary to me.
    The whole I trust you, Sam; and then going behind his back and lying for god knows how many weeks - that's the real problem. Not to mention not even telling Sam himself, but him having to find out from LeviDean. Trust issues, they has them.

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  22. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:51

    I'm wondering if this is all about Black and White V Grey

    Dean seems have gone all Black and White again and I think that this is mostly down to Castiel. He is reacting to Cas's betrayal. He trusted a supernatural creature much like Sam did with Ruby and he got burned.

     The only problem with this is the Starks, Dean didn't seem to give a crap that they let these killers walk free. Which leaves me believe that it is Sam he cant trust?

    I hope they just hash it out in the episode

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  23. ShatteredOne1 November 2011 at 18:51

    They're both right and wrong if I look at this rationally, but I am completely on Sam's side in this and hated Dean when he killed Amy.  I guess it did confirm that Sam is my favorite of the two brothers.

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  24. jillyanne1 November 2011 at 18:53

    At least they're talking  :P

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  25. luis l1 November 2011 at 18:54

    sam nearly shoot dean

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  26. Kati1 November 2011 at 18:55

    But not for the lack of trying on their part. They tried to kill them and they failed. Now the Starks knew they were coming so the next time they popped up, they would end up being a smear on the wall before they got even close and not just them but all hunters - the Starks didn't live up to being 800 by being dumb. So, killing was reasonably outta question, thus they did the next best thing, they convinced them to stop killing - for which they were rewarded by Stark saving their lives twice, from the Levi and from his own wife.

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  27. Felidae821 November 2011 at 18:56

    This is a really good way to look at it ;P

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  28. luis l1 November 2011 at 18:56

    Besides Amy was a monters.... the starks are witches... not the same

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  29. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 18:57

    Ehmm it was close to the Sam waving a gun around shooting at Lucifer who wasn't really there and not caring that his brother almost caught a bullet in the process?

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  30. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 18:57

    exactly. This little spat is no where near getting to the heart of whats going on for either of them.

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  31. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:00

    I think the real issue here is that Sam thinks that Dean didn't trust him like he claimed to have. If Dean doesnt trust Sam then he needs to just tell Sam because then at least he will know.

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  32. Kati1 November 2011 at 19:01

    But that's the thing, they tried to kill the Starks and failed. And they would not be given another chance, not when the Starks knew, they could squash the Winchesters like bugs. So, it was more "I won't kill you if you won't try to kill us again" and "we won't try to kill you if you stop killing" kind of thing. Sometimes, it's not a clear win or lose situation, sometimes you have to be content with a draw. At least the Starks where powerful enough to justify this, the writers didn't make it an emotional decision, which would be hypocritical on Dean's part.

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  33. Elisabeth Evan1 November 2011 at 19:03

    yikes!  I don't think that tension's going away anytime soon.. but I'm glad they're not doing a separation arc - the dynamic of the show isn't the same if they're not together, even if they are fighting!

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  34. Elisabeth Evan1 November 2011 at 19:03

    but that would violate the "no chick flick moments" rule  :)

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  35. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:05

    Its still leaves the question how exactly does Dean decide which monsters live and which ones die? 

    Ones they cant take out are an exception but Dean killed Amy because she killed for her family, he let Lucky go last season after he killed for his family. Is it a case of Lucky lived because Dean sympathised with him and Amy dies because Sam sympathised with her-which again leads to does Dean really trust Sam? The next time Sam allows a monster to live will Dean disagree and take the monster out? Its starting to get confusing, especially since the writers refuse to let the boys actually talk stuff out.

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  36. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:07

    In which case is that really fair of Dean to throw that back in Sam's face and doesn't it confirm what LeviaDean said to Sam about Dean thinking Sam is crazy?

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  37. jillyanne1 November 2011 at 19:07

    I see both their points of view - but that doesn't stop me from wanting to bang their heads together. Silly boys.

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  38. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:09

    they both killed people

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  39. Chanelle Montpetit1 November 2011 at 19:11

    WHAT OMG! I cant even pick a side. I m too shocked haha

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  40. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:11

    I did not have a problem with Dean killing Amy my problem is the reasoning. I still dont know why he did it and I hate that he didn't tell Sam about it seemingly because he thought Sam wouldn't be able to handle it what with him being crazy.

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  41. Chanelle Montpetit1 November 2011 at 19:11

    I think this rule has been violate enough time to forget about it :S

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  42. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:13

    I'm not going to pick a side, I'm going to pray we get some bloody resolution in the episode. If they actually talk and hash things out I'll be shocked.

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  43. Chanelle Montpetit1 November 2011 at 19:14

    If he were he would have killed the kid. You can see he feels guilty about it

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  44. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:14

    Remember what a dick and a bitch Dean was early season 5? These two are more alike than they think.

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  45. Kati1 November 2011 at 19:14

    Last season is different than this season, not the same circumstances. Buncha things happened, the biggest one being Castiel's betrayal - here was a supernatural creature Dean trusted with his and Sam's life and got betrayed. And if someone like Cas could go bad, why not Amy? After Lenore, Dean was giving - or trying to give as much as John's upbringing allowed him - everybody the benefit of the doubt. Now Dean got burned badly and he reacts like a burned man, he falls back on seeing the world in black and white. Yet his nightmares show that it's not black and white anymore, no matter how much he tries to convince himself of that.

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  46. Thomas1 November 2011 at 19:16

    Her child was still young, so it's impossible for Amy to say she was done.  Her excuse was her young kid was dying, so the odds are stacked that her young child won't be in that same situation again until he's an adult.  Dean was in the right through and through with killing her.  Lenore is very different on that end because she never fed on a human(watch "Bloodlust" if you think Lenore ever killed anyone) and only lived on cattle's blood, although she knew she was in the wrong when she finally tasted a human's blood, so she ASKED for death in which Castiel obliged.  Plus, you gotta admit...Sam has never been in the wayward thinking when it comes to having his heart inbetween him and a supernatural entity.  Madison the werewolf, Ruby the demon and now his first "love", Amy the kitsune.  He lets his heart take over on his responsibilities as a hunter, and that comes first and foremost.  Heck, he wanted to even let that rugaru off the hook and we all knew that guy was going to be wanting to eat up some dude in a matter of minutes.

    And to compare this with how they dealt with the Starks, look at it this way: they're not the only witches they let go who had taken lives...there was a warlock in season five.  Now, the Starks deserved death moreso than that warlock, but it seems that the husband and wife won't be killing anymore.  It that justified in the end?  No, not at all, but now we know Don can be an ally.  And Amy?  She will never be an ally because if Eve can control all of the monsters, then who's to say the Leviathans can't?

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  47. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:16

    I think in one of my posts I mentioned this being a reaction to the Cas betrayal. I think the reason Dean has reverted back to black and white is because he trusted Cas and in the end he got burned much like Sam did with Ruby.

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  48. Chanelle Montpetit1 November 2011 at 19:17

    yeah.. that would mean dean admitting he was a little wrong... nay dont think there will be a resolution. (bloody? haah nice )

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  49. Thomas1 November 2011 at 19:18

    Dean didn't let Lucky go.  Lucky left that warehouse without Sam and Dean's knowledge.

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  50. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 19:19

    Also the Starks and Lucky never swore they'd never do it again and dressed up something horrific as the ONLY way to protect or save some one else - Amy did, Lucky knew he had other options and also lost everything in the process.  Amy might have been trying to save her son but killing 4 people, she choose one life over four people she didn't know and it was pretty obvious (even though I sympathise with her) she'd do it again if it her son got sick again - she's a mother she is going to protect her child.  Anyway remember Jack Montgomery?

    The question is that once Sam stops being a bitch (which sorry he is) is he going to force Dean to admit that him going after Amy wasn't just about what she had done but as much about Dean's issues at the time and his obsession about having the other shoe drop.

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  51. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:21

    maybe this isn't so much a lesson for Dean but for Sam, not to be so grey and to not trust monsters any more?

    Either that or Dean's black and white views are going to come to a head in the future. I mean what does he do now that Cas has killed so many people/been responsible for their deaths? Surely he has to put him down (when he returns)? 

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  52. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:22

    they could have tracked him down, Soulless Sam even asked if they were just going to let him go? I think he would have been all to happy to go after Lucky.

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  53. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:24

    they show will never make Dean wrong, even hen he is he's right. The writers have no problem showing Sam as wrong even when he is the one wronged. Either way Sam will be the one being bashed whatever happens in the episode.

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  54. Thomas1 November 2011 at 19:25

    And there was no reason for Dean to even listen to Soulless Sam and do what he insists.  Besides, going after Lucky or any of the skinwalkers that were left would be pretty much doing what Crowley would've wanted, and Dean was already against it.

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  55. Chanelle Montpetit1 November 2011 at 19:26

    Well from my experience with brothers or sisters that is a normal thing ahha.

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  56. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 19:26

    yeah, but Sam had consistently lied, got a blood addiction became a necrophiliac and let out Lucifer while undermining his brother's confidence while Dean was going through PTSD and bitching about how Dean didn't trust him.

    As much as I think Sam has a right to be pissed but on the whole there are degrees about the right to be bitchy.

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  57. Thomas1 November 2011 at 19:27

    A lesson for Sam?  I would say yes.  For all the great things Sam has done, he still hasn't learned the most important lesson and that is monsters are 99% evil.  And Dean had come down on Castiel before even when he didn't know that he killed Balthazar, or the real reason he killed Rachel.

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  58. percysowner1 November 2011 at 19:27

    Sadly, I agree.  I had hoped that we would see some sign that Dean felt he was wrong, at least about the lying to Sam.  Now we are still left with Dean=always right, Sam=always wrong.

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  59. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:28

    Sam was never a necrohile, Ruby's vessel wasn't dead.

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  60. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 19:30

    So will Sam have to become all black and white like Dean? 

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  61. luis l1 November 2011 at 19:35

    Sam is wrong about some monsters. Remember the rugaru in Metamorphosis? Lenore, etc...

    ReplyDelete
  62. Thomas1 November 2011 at 19:36

    Unless the monster has been trying from the get-go to be "good", such as Lenore.  She has always been the only exception so far in this series.  Every other monster has gone downhill and has never tried.  But, one thing about Dean...he doesn't "gank" children, so that's seeing shades of grey in a way.

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  63. browniegirl271 November 2011 at 19:39

    I don't think Sam has to become black and white.  Just think more with his head instead of his heart.

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  64. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 19:41

    I think that Dean does feel guilt over this, even though he can rationalise his actions.  But his reaction here is as much of him going on the defensive as a response to Sam's reaction.  It is what Dean does he either fights or bottles up his emotions especially when someone else goes on the attacks him in whatever capacity. 

    Sam being a bitch to him isn't going to get the guy to open up about anything instead it lets Dean turn it round to Sam, and really Sam has let himself be open to it by going on and on about how Dean needed to talk then shutting him out when he found out about Amy because he's angry instead of really demanding answers.

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  65. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 19:43

    She picked up the body at the point of death and when she possessed the maid to give the boys a message she mentioned that 'coma girl' was DECOMPOSING on a cabin floor.

    Without Ruby in the body, it was worm chow missing a coffin

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  66. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 19:50

    I think Dean has gotten to a point if a monster hasn't killed then he hasn't got a reason to 'gank' it, and one thing in his favour is that he has always accepted that he is going to end the same way that the monsters he kills and even given Amy's son the right to come see him if he hasn't died by the time the boy is grown.

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  67. Mia4941 November 2011 at 19:57

    Glad to see Dean fight back and defend his point. Which doesn't change the fact I'm fed up with all the Amy drama and I find it entirely pointless. Just get over it already and focus on the important stuff!

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  68. Bruce_F1 November 2011 at 20:05

    Dean doesn't have a leg to stand on here because he didn't kill the kid too.  He solved nothing and potentially made things worse in the long run.  You kill them both or don't kill them at all.  So, the truth is that while neither one was exactly right in this matter, Sam was less wrong than Dean.

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  69. Elisabeth Evan1 November 2011 at 20:26

    yeah, that kid is definitely going to be back.. he had that creepy vengeful stare going on

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  70. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 20:36

    I feel like the kid will be more likely to kill now than he would have if his mother had lived, Dean should definitely either put them both down or neither at all. It doesnt really make much sense.

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  71. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 20:39

    it still want dead, the writers came out and made clear that it was neither rape nor necrophilia. The vessel had been in a come, Ruby entered it and the sou of the girl left. Ruby was able to keep the body alive, without her possessing it it would have died but she was possessing it therefore not dead.

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  72. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 20:42

    so that measn people who have lied before should never have the right to be upset when they are lied to? 

    Thats like saying a murderer doesn't have the right to be upset when a family member is killed.

    Speaking of undermining confidence isnt that exactly what Dean is doing to Sam buy going behind his back and killing Amy, he's affectively saying he doesn't trust his ability to make the right decision. He basically admits it in the sneak peak. If that made Sam a bad brother then it makes Dean one now too.

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  73. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 20:45

    I agree this doesn't help Sam at all and it allows Dean to turn it around and make Sam the bad guy. I do however think that Sam will come around and be more open to discussion once he simmers down from the initial anger and hurt he's feeling here in the sneak peak.

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  74. brianna armstrong1 November 2011 at 20:49

    oh dear lord. when will this constant lying and fighting between them end? although i felt like we were getting a glimpse of old, season 1 & 2 sammy and dean, when sam was against killing things if he knew they weren't truely evil and dean's level headed thinking that if its a monster, they kill it end of story. Granted Amy was a monster who killed four people, she did it to protect her son and never killed anyone before that. Eventually the boys will make up and see where the other is coming from, i just hope they stop lying to one another!!!

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  75. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 20:51

    Sam was desperate to be right about the Rugaru because it meant that if that guy didn't turn then he had some hope that he wouldn't either. When the Rugaru guy gave in to the blood lust Sam decided to quit the blood drinking because he doubted he would be able to stop himself from going dark side and becoming a monster too.

    Sam was right about Lenore up until the mother all came along she was fine, how was he supposed to know  that would happen. He also let Dean make up his own mind in that episode, Dean agreed Lenore wasn't a threat and let her go Sam didn't force Dean to come to that conclusion.

    It seems like a lot of fans would prefer the show go the route of black and white, monsters/all supernatural creatures get put down no matter what.

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  76. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 20:55

    Maybe or maybe not seeing how from what is implied by the clip the boys have either been apart and were working the case separately until they came to an understanding to work together or one asked for the other's help on a professional level. 

    Both situations suggest that Sam has been nursing his huff for a while instead of just getting it out in the open.

    I do hope he does rein his neck in tho as it would allow them to explore Dean as Sam's behaviour does let him hold onto the complex he has instead of confronting it.

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  77. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 20:58

    As the girl's soul was gone it wasn't rape but the necrophilia angle is debatable for me as the thing animating it wasn't alive itself.  Though if there is a clear part where the writers state that it wasn't necrophilia would be interested to read it.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Soline1 November 2011 at 21:02

    :) Yeah for the sneak peek! I got afraid for a while....and awww...:( Come on boys...:( Hug or something

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  79. Elisabeth Evan1 November 2011 at 21:02

    I agree - and I think that just goes to show that Dean really does live life in shades of grey sometimes, despite what he says.  Didn't he know that the kid had been "infected' or whatever?  If he really wanted to "do the right thing", he needed to put them both down.. now there's a kid out there with a score to settle.

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  80. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 21:05

    I read this on another site I thought all this seemed familiar, we've been there done that in season 4 just the roles are reversed this time sort of.

    S4: Dean comes back from hell burdened. Sam thinks Dean's not suited to do what needs to be done, takes it upon himself and lies to Dean about it. Sam develops a demon blood addiction.

    Analysis: Sam is wrong and should spend a season atoning.

    S7: Sam comes back from hell burdened. Dean thinks Sam's not suited to do what needs to be done, takes it upon himself and lies to Sam about it. Dean develops an alcohol dependency.

    Analysis: Sam is wrong and enough is enough.

    ReplyDelete
  81. natassa1 November 2011 at 21:14

    I thought the brothers weren't going to be fighting this year. I thought Sera Gamble said the relationship between the brothers will not be touched this year.
    Another lie, like every year. Another season of recycling old plotlines. Do the writers use the same script every time they have Sam leave Dean or do they bother writing it again? Waste of time if you ask me cause this plotline is getting older than the Castiel storyline....

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  82. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 21:17

    I think the whole issue is getting a bit muddy, the writers are giving the fans something to think about thats for sure. 

    Regardless of being a Sam girl or Dean girl there are some major moral dilemmas being discussed and its bringing out peoples personal moral stances. 

    The writers arent being clear on what was right and wrong in this case, they seem to be more on the side of Dean being in the right I think but its not clear.

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  83. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 21:18

    No, people who lie do have a right to be upset and Dean was in the wrong about not telling Sam and not talking to Sam about his concerns, yes but his actions, even though his hand was forced are being looked at, even though the stakes at this point are actually lower than when Sam did it because really you have PTSD while having Angels at one side saying one thing and the one person you trust paying lip service to it while acting completely different when the world is on the line it is going to really screw you up, when compared to someone paying lip service and trying to clean up messes they think you've made in the hope you don't know you notice is different. 

    But back to the clip, Dean's kind of right, Sam acting like a four year old in a huff, and from the look of it he's been doing it for a while, isn't going to make either one of them actually deal with the situation.  Plus his history combined with the whole nagging
    of Dean to open up and then instead of confronting and making his
    brother talk just walking away and dragging things smacks of Sam
    being something in between self righteous and hypocritical and turns Dean's actions flawed to some degree into being about Sam rather than either boy actually dealing with what Dean thinks or feels, which could lead to in your words Dean being 'wrong'

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  84. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 21:23

    never listen to Sera Gamble thats lesson most fans have learnt over the years.

    I agree this is actually a recycled storyline-season 4-and for me will only be worth my time if it actually amounts to something. The boys need to talk and resolve their issues once and for all.

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  85. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 21:29

    this isn't just about the issues Dean has its about Sam too. 

    Dean has trust issues which I think are all about the whole Cas betrayal and his worry that Sam is nuts. I also think he has some issue with trusting himself and his own judgement.

    Sam believes his brother thinks him crazy and that he doesn't trust him. I also think Sam is  worried he cant trust himself and I dont think he is doing as well as he thinks he is. I think he's barely hanging on and the fact that Dean might think Sam is crazy and a ticking time bomb is not exactly going to help his already rocky foundation.

    Its not about one brother, its about both. Their issues are actually tied to the same thing and to one another.

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  86. Mekina1 November 2011 at 21:43

    BOYS. ARGH. They need to just stop and talk...without the yelling and anger. But unfortunately that's not the Winchester Way... They really only know how to express themselves through fights.

    They're both right and wrong, I think... Dean was right to kill Amy, she was a monster, and she killed four people. I understand why she did it, for her child, but still. In all likelihood she would have killed again. Kids get sick all the time, and her kid was still young. There was no way for her to know he would never need fresh meat again. So yeah, she needed to die. BUT. Dean should not have lied to Sam. Told him he trusted him and lied some more, and let him find out about Amy from LeviaDean.

    Sam didn't know Amy all that well... It was years and years ago, and yeah, she killed her mother to save him, but she was still a monster and she still killed people. Sam (from what I've seen so far) hasn't given Dean a chance to explain. But he does have a right to be angry. Again, Dean told him he trusted him and lied to him and he didn't even find out the truth from the real Dean!

    Gah. I just want to tie them down and force them to talk. Or knock their heads together. Maybe both? :D

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  87. Mekina1 November 2011 at 21:44

    I'd love a hug. I hope we get one this season.

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  88. Mekina1 November 2011 at 21:45

    That rule has been thoroughly obliterated. All those over/on the Impala chats...and lots of other moments too. But especially the Impala chats. :D

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  89. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 21:45

    Agree that both brothers rightly have issues but Sam even though pissed and worried nursing his huff to the point where from the clip he is close to throwing his toys out of the pram actually gives his brother some credence in keeping his mouth shut about what he did and his feelings about Sam's mental state.  Why would Dean open up when he knows that this is the response he is going  to get?

    I'm not saying punching his brother in the face and yelling is more healthy but Sam nursing his anger instead of confronting his worries and getting out all the reasons Dean felt that Amy had to die including how much Cas tied into it won't help either brother.

    It's not the anger that gives Sam impression of the bad brother it is the promising that he'll be there for Dean and then proving Dean's worse fears right by walking away when he finds out something that Dean feels guilty about.

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  90. Mekina1 November 2011 at 21:46

    I have to agree. But Dean just couldn't bring himself to kill a kid, monster or not...especially one who hadn't killed anybody (yet.) I'm really hoping that kid comes back.

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  91. fazziemodo1 November 2011 at 21:48

    The alcohol dependency has been building since season 4.

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  92. Mekina1 November 2011 at 21:51

    Personally I think that Dean's both right and wrong. Right for killing Amy, she was a monster, she killed four people and in all likelihood she would have killed more in the future, but WRONG for lying to Sam, WRONG for telling Sam he trusted him when it was a lie, and WRONG for letting Sam find out from LeviaDean instead of his brother! So, yeah, I think Sam has a right to be angry..though I think he should give him a chance to explain.

    (I'm a Deangirl, by the way, even though I love Sam too. I really wanna smack both of them. If only they would calm down and talk. But they're Winchesters. *sigh*)

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  93. Jessica Rodriguez1 November 2011 at 22:26

    Tension. I love/hate tension, so I tend to like to break tension. 

    ...So when I said before that I wanted a Bitch-Jerk moment, somehow the jerk part, the humor, and fun all got forgotten. All we had was a one sided bitch comment. :(

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  94. KatHale1 November 2011 at 22:56

    I'm starting to regret the moment Amy appeared on the show..

    Okay,Sam had me up until "You lied to me".He completely lost me one second later("You killed my friend")..What?!?
    That's what bothers me in this whole plot.The lying comes second,the main cause for Sam's anger(and Dean's guilt) is Amy's death.Personally,it didn't bother me in the slightest even though I could have done without the kid witnessing it.But even if I felt differently,I'd still think that it's pretty weird that it's taking them so long to move on.After all they've been through(starting the Apocalypse,Ruby...) THIS is what takes four(and probably more) episodes to solve?!

    Dean's trust issues are a more interesting part for me.So far we've only seen that he definitely has them.We have yet to see what caused them,or better what triggered their reappearance.But he does give away something here."There are people in this world that no matter how dangerous they are you just can't..".Yeah,Dean,we know.All these people have brown hair,blue eyes and they're wearing trench coats.I think that this whole thing will take a while to be addressed.The writers could do it now,but in order to achieve maximum drama,they'll do it around Cas' miraculous return(in some form).

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  95. Charles1 November 2011 at 23:29

    oh yea, i've been waiting for the alcohol dependency plot to be addressed since then. But if I remember correctly: Dean & his 'affinity' to alcohol played a minor part in  "What is and what should never be" already.. everyone kept telling him: you've been drinking blablabla...

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  96. chris6841 November 2011 at 23:39

    The irony here is that Cas is/was a supernatural creature that just went on a killing spree that makes Amy's measily four people look like nothing, and Dean would have saved Cas if he could.  Love Cas, but just sayin' ...

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  97. Charles1 November 2011 at 23:39

    This is show is about two brothers so we do need some brotherly drama and fights. I actually like the discussions, fights, trust issues cus this is how human beings interact, act, behave, react or whatsoever. But it's all about forgive & forget so yea, we willl eventually get there. No worries :)

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  98. tvmonkey1 November 2011 at 23:49

    how do you know after this scene at some point he doesnt give Dean the chance to explain? maybe right now he's venting because he is angry and upset but Deans words might change his mind and he'll want to talk about it? Sam's behaviour here isn't all that different from how Dean reacted in early season 5. I dont recall Dean being all that willing to listen to Sam until Sam forced the issue.

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  99. Mia4942 November 2011 at 00:38

    I think most people just oversee the fact that Amy was a REAL monster, i.e. killing was a part of her nature. It was something she had to do in order to stay healthy (or for her monster kid to stay healthy, whatever). Cas was an angel. The witches were human (I think). They were killing because they chose to and they could've easily chosen to stop without any consequences. A monster cannot just stop cause it's defying their nature. That's how I see it.

    Besides, at some point i believe they were ready to kill Cas, they just didn't know how to. Same with the witches - they tried and failed.

    Of course what I said makes it completely unfair that those who kill because they have to get killed by hunters and those who kill cause they choose to have a chance to get away with it. But hey, it's SPN, no easy choices, no black or white.

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  100. chris6842 November 2011 at 00:49

    The point is is that there really isn't back and white. Monsters sometimes help humans. Humans sometimes murder. Sam and Dean would kill under the right circumstances. Dean was ready to kill Gordon to protect his family (Sam). Angels smite towns for the greater good. It really comes down to a case-by-case judgment call, which Sam made in the case of Amy, and Dean undermined.

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  101. percysowner2 November 2011 at 01:02

    Crowley wanted to capture monsters to find the alphas and Purgatory.  Killing Lucky would not have helped Crowley at all and would have fit in with Dean's "if its a monster we kill it" philosophy.  Instead he let a monster that had killed 3 people go.

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  102. Folie-lex2 November 2011 at 01:02

    Oh whoa!! Dean... babe... you're so in the wrong....
     

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  103. luis l2 November 2011 at 01:08

    the starks weren't monster... and they tried to kill them

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  104. luis l2 November 2011 at 01:09

    he was wrong...

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  105. Wilson Crawford2 November 2011 at 01:27

    DAMN.
    Sam's the bitch and the dick?
    Meh, I'm just gonna close my eyes and wait until this is all over and they're brothers again.
    Although this is more realistic to me. That's about how it is with my brother half the time (with twice the profanity!) 

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  106. Wilson Crawford2 November 2011 at 01:30

    Funny, because I was thinking the same thing. Only about SAM... AND DEAN.
    DUN DUN DUN!!!! They're both out of their wits right now, those leviathans are scrambling their eggs.

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  107. Wilson Crawford2 November 2011 at 01:32

    My sentiments exactly. This whole clip shows how wrong both brothers are...and yet how right they are.

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  108. Debbie Combs2 November 2011 at 02:01

    By your logic, if a person dies and is brought back with extreme measures, they are actually still a corpse? Or would that be a zombie? I totally disagree. A demon is basically a soul, and Ruby's body was warm and had a pulse. She wasn't dead like a vampire. A vampire has no pulse... a body with a demon does. Therefore, the body is not dead. I don't see how there can be a debate.

    Some people with near death experiences actually view their bodies from an outsiders POV... If anything Ruby was a thief. She stole someone else's body, but it was really a victimless crime because the previous owner had abandoned the residence :-)

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  109. Rachel Scott2 November 2011 at 02:05

    i think sam has a right to be angry right now and I am really hoping that he is not the first one to cave in. to me it seems that is what always happens and for once i wanna see dean be wrong about something. of topic now, i am watching season one now because i was to scared to watch it when the show first started. can anyone tell me what happened to sam's visions and telepathy?

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  110. David Fischer2 November 2011 at 02:05

    Sam would just shoot back with "Yeah, and you called Cas a friend. Look at how that turned out."

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  111. Debbie Combs2 November 2011 at 02:15

    I totally agree. She had gone years and years without killing (more than 10 years at least). She adapted in a way that didn't require her to kill. She would have raised her son to do the same.

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  112. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 02:34

    Dean might've been "in the right" to kill Amy, but Dean does not have the right to tell Sam when and how he can be upset/pissed off. Dean's being a dick for Sam being hurt and upset by what Dean's done to him. Dean's the betrayer here, and all Sam is doing for once and FINALLY is expressing how he feels and how angry he is. Dean doesn't have the right to tell Sam "enough is enough" when he blatantly betrayed him.

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  113. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 02:36

     But Amy wasn't evil. She never has been evil. She as a mother trying to protect her child and save her child's life. That doesn't make her evil.

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  114. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 02:40

    Dean being a dick and bringing up Sam's hallucinations and Satan/Hell issues isn't going to help the situation either.

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  115. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 02:43

    Wow, talk about a Sam-bashing post. Necrophiliac? Really? You HAD to stoop to that level?

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  116. Thomas2 November 2011 at 03:22

    Lol, did you think about what you were typing before you clicked on 'post'?  She's not evil even though she's killing people?  Yep...that makes sense all right, haha.  She's killing people for her son...sure, in the broadest sense, it makes Amy just a regular mom who'll try to do anything, but she's not human and neither is her son and in the end, in black and white, the monsters are killing off humans, which in that broadest sense, is a reason for why hunters must kill them.

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  117. Thomas2 November 2011 at 03:24

    I'll give you that; Sam does have the right to be angry, but NOT during a case.  Sam walked away at the end of "Slash Fiction" and could've stayed away for this case, but Dean is correct on telling him to stop acting like a bitch while working together.  Again, Dean is right on this situation as well as killing Amy.  The only thing Dean is wrong about is keeping it from Sam.

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  118. AllyAF2 November 2011 at 03:28

    they're brothers^^; 99% of the brothers/sisters in the world always fight and get pissed at each other for whatever reasons more than once a decade...I think it's pretty normal for the boys who not only are brothers, but who are stuck in the car for lloonngg hours, live together, do pretty much everything together all the time, to fight once in a while

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  119. Saethe2 November 2011 at 05:10

    Sam called Cas a friend too. In fact, he still believed in him when Dean no longer did (& I think he was right to).

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  120. Saethe2 November 2011 at 05:15

    I've been trying to convince my sister about this for days (and not succeeding, as she seems to have a hate-on for Sam...). Trust is the real issue here - it has been for a very long time. Dean has always (or mostly) made the decisions for the both of them, without giving Sam even a vote. I thought he had learned to trust his brother at the end of season 5, but now their issues all seem to come back. I don't know if trusting Sam (and not killing) Amy would have been the right thing to do, but I get why Sam is so upset.

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  121. Monika Thommen-Ackle2 November 2011 at 06:20

    Dean would have killed for Sam so you wanna say he's evil too? (Both brothers knived posessed people instead of excorcised them, even if they had enough time) Soldiers are evil then? Executioners are too? What about butchers? They still take lives and should be evil in the eyes of a cow (I'm not a vegetarian) If Dean thought she was evil and believed he saved lives by killing her, which I understand he might have, then he made the biggest mistake to let the kid live. He will have to kill to survive, now that his mom doesn't provide for him anymore. I don't have problems with Dean following what he believes is right, just like Sam following what he thinks is right, but with Dean we have the factor that Sam asked him not to and he agreed. If he was against it he should have given his reasoning and asked for Sam's reasoning behind her being his friend like a equal partner, even if Sam is not all to stable. This is too big to not do that(Hmm, maybe he thought it was the sole reason, which makes his actions more plausible and IC) He might have let her live if he had known how she raised her kid and had a job to provide brains without killing. I just fear that the show will not explain it in that way and will leave Dean standing in a bad light for all Sam fans, just like making Sam look bad for all the Dean fans because if the roles were reversed, Dean's reaction wouldn't be pretty, But I feel in the show  runner's eyes it's always turned to be Sam's fault. It's the double moral in here that bothers me and the fans who agree with it. Dean's impression is that you have to kill a monster that has killed before but never a human, even if the chances of him (Drug Dealer) killing others during his lifetime was more real? Why isn't he killing Sam then? It's been established that Sam at least is a freak and he killed that nurse. If Dean was as black and white he should kill Sam, but Sam is his brother, he could never kill him, would rather kill to save him, where we are exactly where Amy was. We know that Dean rarely lives what he preaches and I would hope that the show would finally adress that. Sam and Dean are killers, no matter the circumstances. Why are they allowed to live when others aren't?

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  122. Monika Thommen-Ackle2 November 2011 at 06:33

    Good thought. If Dean had talked to Amy before like Sam, would he have let her go with a promise to be back if she'd ever kill again? I can see him doing that if he had known she had a son beforehand. Was the fact that Dean doesn't trust in Sam's current state (trying to protect him by keeping all dangers away from him and taking all decicions from him) the reason why he was so set on killing her? It would make sense but then again it would make Dean unsympathetic so I doubt it, even if it would make him much more sympathetic in my eyes if he had that narrow minded "character-fault".

    But I guess it's all going to be Sam's fault again with Dean having a minor regret about his part in it, about which he feels guilty again. (Sorry to sound so bitter. I'm a Pro bro fan with slight tendencies towards Sam, but those are growing as long as the writers turn the fact that Sam has had the healthier outlook on life often into a character weakness for him over and over again. Give the kid some credit at last, officially)

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  123. Kati2 November 2011 at 08:35

    It's interesting to see how few people can actually see both sides of the argument. Reading these comments, it's mostly "Dean's wrong!" or "Sam's wrong!" But neither of them is 100% wrong, IMHO. I don't think Dean should've killed Amy. On the other hand, Sam's running away in his mental state didn't exactly prove his judgment wasn't impaired, so...

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  124. Lubbeelou2 November 2011 at 08:47

    Oooo I would like them to get along at least once! :( Looks awesome though!

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  125. Sonia Trevisan2 November 2011 at 09:54

    dammit please no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dean idioti

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  126. Sonia Trevisan2 November 2011 at 09:55

    want together

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  127. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 11:12

    Keep watching, if we tell you we'll spoil it for you! :)

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  128. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 11:15

    That so? Sam and Dean have killed innocent humans being ridden by demons for each other. Dean would kill for Sam in a heartbeat. Sam would kill for Dean in a heartbeat. It wouldn't matter if they were human, monster or a human ridden by a demon. So does that make them evil? How about the people that Amy was killing? They were the scum of the earth-type people. Drunk drivers and drug dealers. A drunk driver who could've had a potential casualty on his hands because he decided to get behind the wheel when he could barely hold onto his keys let alone drive. A drug dealer dealing out stuff that does kill. Are humans honestly any different than the monsters who aren't out to kill just for kicks? Was Madison evil? Was Castiel evil? Was Amy truly evil? Are Sam and Dean evil? Are humans truly that different and so much better than monsters like Amy and Madison and Castiel?

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  129. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 11:17

    Just like Dean shouldn't have been drinking during a case? Look at that, it goes both ways. Maybe you could remove your Dean-colored glasses and actually look at the bigger picture. Dean's no saint. Stop trying to make him out to be one.

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  130. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 11:18

    Yes she would have but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have gotten sick again, then she would have killed again. Speaking from experience (between myself and triplet brothers and sisters) kids get sick, it happens all the time, there's no telling how many people that Amy would have killed to save her son. I'm not saying that that's wrong but give Dean SOME credit for knowing this and understanding what truly had to be done. Not saying it's completely right, not saying that its completely wrong. Its Shades of grey people, and the thing that matters is that both of the brothers are struggling with it, its supposed to be hard.  

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  131. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 11:24

    Is the drunk driver someone's Dad, husband, brother? Just because He's drunk this one time doesn't mean he deserves death! It's not who she's killing its the fact that she is killing. Im not saying Dean is totally right, he did lie to Sam about it, but he has a point in the fact that Sam may not be mentally ready for this revelation, but he does deserve to know at some point. 

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  132. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 11:31

    Yeah? And were those innocent people that demons were riding that Sam and Dean have both killed to save each other's skin and just to kill the demon somebody's mother/father/brother/sister/etc... You can't just say that and ignore the fact that Sam and Dean have done it too. It goes both ways here.

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  133. chris6842 November 2011 at 11:36

    Could Dean know for certain whether Cas would kill again (after he had come down from his God complex)?  Angels don't see things the way humans do, and many we've seen many angels kill humans for various reasons that would be punishable in a human court room (Balthazar giving the kid the staff, Gabriel punishing people as the trickster).  Dean never tried to kill Bathazar or Gabriel (he even released Gabriel from the ring of fire) even though they had proven they kill humans.

    Could Dean say for certain he would never kill in the future to save his family?

    I'm not in favor of killing off everyone and everything that might possibly kill in the future, but different supernatural creatures have different value systems.  Amy had spent most of her life committed to the notion of not killing.

    As for the comment that kids get sick all of the time, if this is the first time this has happened in 10 years, and she's never had to kill to save herself, it sounds like this illness was something unusual and unlikely to happen again.  Besides, in another eight years the kid is an adult and responsible for himself.

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  134. chris6842 November 2011 at 12:02

    The "Sam's running away" comment doesn't make a lot of sense considering we don't know that Sam really "ran away."  All we know is that he walked away from Dean to get some space because he was too angry to be around him at the moment.  It's a very understandable reaction and it says nothing about his mental health.

    There have been a lot of people who have said they either think Dean was right to kill Amy but wrong to lie (that's seeing both sides) or that killing Amy is a grey area and they would have been fine with either decision if both bothers had reached it together after rational decision (myself included). That's also seeing both sides.

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  135. chris6842 November 2011 at 12:12

    Who said Leonore never killed anyone before Bloodlust?  She was committed to not killing at that time, just as Amy went back to being committed to not killing after the danger to her son had passed.  We don't know Leonore's history.

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  136. andy2 November 2011 at 12:17

    ITA. I also find it quite ironic that while people were cheering for Sam, when he was trying to convince Dean that they should save Cas, they are now firmly on Dean's side for killing Amy.

    If you look at the 2 situation from a hunter's point of view, then both (Cas & Amy) killed humans, ergo they deserve to die. And before you argue that Cas was doing it for the greater good, I really don't see how a motivational speaker is worse for human kind than a drug dealer.

    And concerning the Starks. Yes, they know Sam and Dean's faces and the brothers can't try to kill them again without getting chopped into pieces. However, I do seem to have heard that there are other hunters out there, right? So, if Dean wants all supernatural things that kill stopped, why didn't he call another hunter, tell him who and where the witches are, and remind him not to forget to chill the chicken feet. Cause, those two could have another hissy fit tomorrow, and then what?

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  137. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 12:58

    Like I said nobody's completely right no one is completely wrong! I never fully took anyones side :) I think that both of the brothers, Sam and Dean, have the right to what they feel! Once again its the shades of grey and the fact that they struggle with them that matters. If they didn't 1) they wouldn't be our boys and 2) as I think Sam once said "it keeps them human."

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  138. chris6842 November 2011 at 13:00

    Just wanted to address your point about trying to kill Cas and the witches.  They tried to kill Cas when he was still on his power trip and considered very dangerous.  They stopped trying to kill him once he said he was sorry, and Dean was clearly hoping that Cas would live when Cas stopped breathing.  Amy was also past the point of killing (her son was better), so in both cases, the immediate threat had passed.  This was a preemptive killing for something that may or may not happen in the future, or punishment for killings in the past.

    As for the witches, I don't buy the argument that they stopped hunting Don and Maggie because they were powerful.  I can't believe human witches are more powerful that Eve, Zachariah, Lucifer, or any of the other big bads that the Winchesters have battled. If they wanted the witches dead, they would have tried again and made sure they got the spell right this time.
     

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  139. Sybella Antonucci Antonucci2 November 2011 at 13:17

    I'm so tired of this discuss. Here and other forums. All is the fault of the screenwriters. If they did a good job, the fandom wouldn't be so angry at Dean or Sam. They are messing up the show with their forced situations, forced changes of the characters and the plot's incoherence. (I hope I was understandable. English is not my native language)

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  140. tvmonkey2 November 2011 at 13:34

    IMO chossing to kill when you dont have to or it isnt in your nature because you're not an actual monster is so much worse.

    For me what Cas did is so much worse than what Amy did because as you said killing was in her nature but it wasnt in his, he chose to do it.

    My solution? put them both down.

    The question is will Dean be able to do if/when the time comes? Is that where this is all leading? Maybe Sam will have to be the one to do it, as Dean out it its what you do for family because Cas will clearly be one of those people that he just cant take out no matter what?

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  141. chris6842 November 2011 at 14:58

    I agree with this.  The question whether Amy should be killed or not was a gray area and could have gone either way. Sam and Dean just needed to be talking to each other about it and coming to some agreement.

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  142. chris6842 November 2011 at 15:10

    You realize Sam and Dean fall into this category too?  They've both killed and not for food.

    The real solution is to restart the apocalypse.  That way there's paradise on earth and all of the evil is wiped out.  It should also stop the Sam vs. Dean debates.

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  143. Wajihah2 November 2011 at 15:11

    sam always defend a monster..i dont understand why..too many times that we've seen that dean is always right..sam should always listen to dean..

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  144. chris6842 November 2011 at 15:34

    That makes everyone who has slept with Sam or Dean since the first time each of them died necrophiliacs as well.  Sam had already died before he slept with Ruby, so by that reasoning it was dead-on-dead sex.

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  145. Christina Frain2 November 2011 at 16:29

    not looking forward to friday at all....what a mess!

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  146. Debbie Combs2 November 2011 at 16:31

    The kid looked about 10 years old. If he had another 10, he wouldn't be her "child" any more. Maybe by then, he could get a job in a Morgue and they could have more fresh meat. She could also study up and try to change careers. There are just too many others that are out there to make Amy a "necessary" kill. If she proves Sam wrong, then she can be killed with no bad feelings on either side... just like the Rugaru guy. Sam wanted to save him, but when he went bad, dead meat.

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  147. isleofskye2 November 2011 at 17:11

    This is quite a complicated dilemma and there is right and wrong on both sides.

    Sam was obviously grateful to Amy because she did save his life when he was a teen, killing her own mother for a person that she had just met.
     If she had been such a monster she would have killed Sam and not her mother.

    The problem is, are all monsters wholly bad or are there mitigating circumstances sometimes?
    This is the sentiment that has always tortured Sam and many a time Dean has praised this very side of his brother. Remember the vampire?

    I don't know if Sam was right or wrong in not killing her, but I do feel that Dean should have discussed his doubts with Sam about Amy and not gone and killed her behind his back.
     If he was really sure she should die he should have tried harder to convince Sam who might have agreed in the end.


    Then Dean also made a grave mistake when he did not kill the child.
    That child eats brains just like his mother and although he hadn't yet killed any one himself, he is going to do so because he will need to eat fresh brains sooner or later.

    Then where was he going to go without his mother?
     Who was going to procure brains for him while he was growing up?
    So by not killing him Dean has already condemned some one to death in the future, someone that he could have saved by eliminating that child there and then.

    If Dean had left Amy alone would she have gone back to using dead brains to feed on?
    We will never know.

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  148. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 17:33

    Exactly what I meant! 

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  149. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 17:37

    Has a Supernatural quote snuck its way into this thread? I think it has :P Very nice! I Like :)

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  150. Carmen Lowe2 November 2011 at 17:38

    Its a combination of shades of grey and trust issues, for both of the brothers. 

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  151. keithfan2 November 2011 at 17:50

    So, the sneak peek reveals that Sam and Dean have not made up since the Amy event. At first I thought that maybe some time had passed and things were ok and the boys had moved on from it. But, I see they are still angry with each other. Dean had to do it to protect Sam, himself and everyone else. But, he should not have lied to Sam about it.

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  152. chris6842 November 2011 at 17:51

    I don't think it's the show that does this.  It's the fans who say "[insert Sam or Dean] is always shown as right."  If anything, the show portrays both of them as always being wrong.

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  153. chris6842 November 2011 at 18:12

    Why would you want to watch a show that you thought portrayed one character as always right and the other as always wrong?  It's the differences in perspective and understandable conflicts that make it interesting.

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  154. Kati2 November 2011 at 18:30

    I'm talking about Amy, when Sam went after Amy and just left Dean a note, without telling him where he was going. That didn't exactly prove he was of a sound mind, at least not to Dean, not after taking a hike with Lucifer just a few days ago.

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  155. Thomas2 November 2011 at 19:22

    That's the pot calling the kettle black.  Your USERNAME is 'SammyWsGirl' for Christ's sake.  Dean had always had something to drink, and Sam even called him on it.  So Dean has the right to call Sam on his bitchiness.  Do yourself a favor and remove your Sam-colored glasses.

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  156. Thomas2 November 2011 at 19:24

    Name one time where they go after any monster that had left them.  This has happened as far back as "Dead Man's Blood" when they didn't go after the other vampires.  Big whoop.

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  157. Thomas2 November 2011 at 19:32

    Soldiers are evil because they kill non-innocent lives?  No.  Are Sam and Dean evil because they are killing non-innocent monsters?  No.  With questions such as those, we need to think of the black and white spectre, because it becomes much more simpler than to think of grey and insisting that the terrorists are only killing because of their religion, and then those arguments just become non-sensical situations.  There is a judicial system when it comes to the law, to "executioners", soldiers and et cetera and that law has been created centuries ago on what is right and what is wrong, and that same moral code stands for hunters on Supernatural on what is naturally good and what is naturally evil.  Don't try to make your point with asking silly questions, ESPECIALLY with asking if butchers are evil because they kill cows. 

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  158. Thomas2 November 2011 at 19:36

    So you're trying to justify Amy's actions because she killed a drug dealer and a drunk driver?  Okay, then my point would by what if the other two people she killed were straight-laced people?  What if the other two people she killed was a husband or a wife; a son or a daughter that were family-driven people and treated others with respect? Didn't think about that, did you?

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  159. Shimmerinstars772 November 2011 at 19:36

    Dean telling Sam he has to turn off his feelings according to Deans time table of when he said its enough. Sounds  like control issues to me and Dean reverting back not only  to his black and white mentaility but to thinking he can still tell Sam what to do and when to feel and when to stop. Hope the point of Dean being so cruel and demanding is to show how messed up he is by  Castiels betrayal (yet a seocnd time the first he never knew about in\ Season 4)Hope the point is Dean can't solve his issues by trying to control Sam and that Sam will no longer except being controlled or treated like a child And please the running away thing is beyond ridiculous First it skips over what Dean did and the shock of Sam hearing it from his clone. Besides Sam is pushing 30 and his own person if he wants to get away from dean to calm down thats his call  One could easily flip that if it were a valid reason to Dean driving sam away.
    I hope this whole Amy thing and this confrontation between them was to be a catalyst for sam to finally have a voice and air out like maggie and Don stark did his long buried disappointment and anger where Deans past behavior is concerned.

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  160. Thomas2 November 2011 at 19:38

    Because exorcising demons works out just as well? You have no idea what the demon has done to the human beforehand and it could result in the same situation with the original Meg.

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  161. Rachel Scott2 November 2011 at 20:03

     what do you mean keep watching? as in finish season 1 or the rest of the show because i've seen the rest of it. i just don't think i remember

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  162. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 20:09

    I love how you base a person on what their username is. You know nothing about me. Please stop pretending you do.

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  163. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:12

    I believe Lenore mentioned she hasn't had any human blood except for when she was turned.  Plus, as I've mentioned before...Amy's son is still young and that impending danger will still be a factor until he's an adult, so it's very likely that Amy would've killed multiple times.  Plus, here's a nice fact...you know who is more innocent than Amy, who's a monster?  That emo vampire in "Live Free or Twihard" since he never fed on human and only drank through blood packets.  If someone were to complain of how Dean shouldn't kill an innocent monster, it should be that vamp.

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  164. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 20:13

    lol I just love how you're trying to justify the killing of innocent human beings being ridden by demons when they did nothing to deserve it. How do you know they're in the same shape as Meg was? You don't actually. They could've been no more innocent then that poor girl possessed by the crossroads demon back during "Crossroad Blues"

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  165. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:15

    Again, you're the pot calling the kettle black.  You say I have Dean-colored glasses, but yet I'm saying Dean was in the wrong for lying to Sam.  I'm only for Dean on killing Amy, the justification of doing such and for calling Sam out in that sneak peak.  And, you think I'm all for Dean in this situation and I've just called you out on you being wrong.  Twice now.  Please, take your own advice once more.

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  166. SammyWsGirl2 November 2011 at 20:15

    Amy was killing the scum because that's what they were, scum. She wasn't about to go out and start killing good people who actually do care about others' lives and not just how much money they're gonna make selling drugs or when they'll get to take another hit or another drink from the bottle. What's with you and your nasty, sarcastic attitude toward people? My god. Get over yourself.

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  167. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:18

    HowdoYOUknowthey'renotinthesameshapeasMeg?Yourdon't...you'rearguingwiththesesillysituationsinwhichyouhavenoideaof.

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  168. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:19

    What is wrong with my reply?

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  169. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:21

    You have no idea who the other two people are.  Get over yourself with thinking you know what the entirety of those four people did in their life before you think Amy's kills were "right".  And my attitude towards people? YOU are on Amy's side for killing them.  Goodness gracious.  Again, you're the pot.

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  170. Thomas2 November 2011 at 20:47

    What makes you so sure the other two people Amy killed were scum?  That's right, you don't.  And talking about my attitude?  You're talking about how a monster is right for killing supposed "scum".  Drunk drivers are people that has made mistakes, they don't deserve death right off the bat.

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  171. tvmonkey2 November 2011 at 20:54

    yes I did realise problem is there is not right and wring here, there is too much grey here for any one side to be right

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  172. fazziemodo2 November 2011 at 21:35

    Sam;s mental issues rightly or wrongly did play into part of Dean's reasoning and like it or not will play a part of his discussion.

    Plus, Sam promising to listen before he found out then being a bitch and blanking his brother is also a dick move.

    On the whole of it they are both being dicks the question is where they go with it.

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  173. SuePo2 November 2011 at 21:36

    You go, Dean. Sam is that pissed because of one lie? Like he hasn't been forgiven by Dean for way more? Dean did what was needed to be done because, like he said, Sam couldn't. Yeah, he didn't tell him and he explained why -- waiting until Sam was over his gun-waving Satan trip. I'm glad to see Dean telling it like it is and not apologizing. That's what I was hoping for. 

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  174. jensenfan19782 November 2011 at 21:36

    For once in his life, Dean Winchester has stood up for himself and not taken the blame as a bad thing.  He felt he had done right and he had.  He fought back for once and did not back down and take it as a guilt.  Way to go, Dean.

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  175. fazziemodo2 November 2011 at 21:39

    No, it is their soul and at no point can their soul willing jump in and out of the body leaving it without a heart beat.  And does a demon in a dead body - which as Ruby jumped into coma girl at time of death it would definately be, have a heart beat?  Is that ever shown.  Plus Ruby mark one got shot in the heart - little blood flow out.  Know it is TV but blood flows if heart still pumping.  But we can agree to disagree.

    As for Ruby being a thief agree that.

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  176. jensenfan19782 November 2011 at 21:41

    The thing is, Amy lied to Sam and tried to lie to Dean and say I'm killing any more.  Thing about where Sam found her.  She was no longer killing bad people.  Sam prevented her from killing and innocent person who ran out of gas.  Her son was out of the house, so he wasn't that sick when Dean showed up which wasn't wasn't that far behind Sam.

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  177. fazziemodo2 November 2011 at 21:43

    Their souls in their bodies so no.  Ruby handed Sam a certificate when he she came back in that body.  Granted we had the scene were she sat up (which was a good scene) but do you get a certificate for miraculously coming out of a coma or just when people certify your time of death|?

    To my mind they never actually cleared up Ruby's status 100% so it can be argued that as the body had been at point of death at time of possession she could be argued as to be an animated corpse.

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  178. jensenfan19782 November 2011 at 21:43

    It wasn't a sympathetic thing at all.  Dean actually apologized to her.  I think he would have told Sam once  he felt Sam was going to go bonkers on him.  I think Dean would have killed Lucky in the long run but Lucky was being used.  The witches, if he could have he would have.  I don't blame Sam for upset over the lie, but from the way he's acting, it's Amy, not the lie.

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  179. SuePo2 November 2011 at 21:46

    Preach it, sister!! :)

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  180. fazziemodo2 November 2011 at 21:46

    Though was really trying to point out that if the Dean bashing regards to series 5's attitude is going to be brought up was just going to say that if Dean deserves Sam's attitude now then Sam with his list of out there behaviour also deserved it then.

    But am happy to oblige you on the supposed Sam bashing.

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  181. frank2 November 2011 at 21:55

    Thankfully I quit watching when they killed off Bela.

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  182. fazziemodo2 November 2011 at 22:03

    I don't know that, I'm working off the clip and the comments here as
    most people can.  It looks like they are attempting to flip the fallen
    Idol dynamic the boys had where Dean went to his default controlling suffocating senior
    partner role and Sam pointed out that part of the reason he went with
    Ruby was the way he was feeling about his dynamic with Dean,  Many Dean
    girls felt that Sam was pushing the blame onto Dean which is similar to
    many Sam fans commenting her about the fact Dean mentions his worries
    about Sam's mental state as part of the reason behind his actions, when he is confronting the fact that Sam has reverted to his default mood of being a moody git when pissed off.



    Where they go from this scene is the important thing but they can't move
    on unless Sam as Dean puts it stops being 'a bitch' and actually
    listens or really vents his anger so he can let it go.  Both boys are in the wrong but equalling wrong in the clip about confronting what is happening

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  183. frank2 November 2011 at 22:30

    What's wrong with that?  My girlfriend always acted like she was dead and then wished I was afterward.

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  184. geordiegirl19672 November 2011 at 22:40

    I'm so sick of this Sam vs Dean c**p - both between the characters and among the fans. See Exhibit A; the 158 comments here and the same arguments going on on every SPN board across the web. I will say where I stand on this issue, but I REALLY wish I didn't have to. Don't the writers know that setting the boys against each other like this stirs up the fandom like a hornets nest and not in a fun way? It puts people off watching. Most people I know just want the conflict between the brothers to be over. We have trodden that road too many times for it to be credible or remotely entertaining. I just want them to be a solid unit; the Winchesters against the world. Actually THAT - a solid, trusting, supportive relationship between the boys - would be a refreshing change of direction for the show. The brotherly angst is repetitive and not what most fans (that I know anyway) want to watch.

    IMO there is always right on both sides. Both have made wrong calls at times, but always motivated by good intentions. And both have done a massive amount more good than bad. On this issue my opinion is; jury's out on whether Amy needed to be killed, but that should have been a joint decision. Dean should NOT have lied to Sam. However he did it for unselfish reasons - to protect Sam from a traumatic situation. He tried to do the same with Madison. He offered to kill her for Sam. He is just being protective. 

    Dean should trust Sam's judgement more than he appears to. Sam's instincts are not far off correct usually. He sees shades of grey much better than Dean. Yes he was taken in by Ruby, but he was right about Lenore, and that Madison was unaware of her actions and deserved for them to at least try to help her. He also saw straight through Gordon. His instinct to try to work with the Trickster / Gabriel also turned out to be sound, as did his belief that they shouldn't trust Crowley.

    I just hope this is over and done with in this next ep. After the whole of s4, the start of s5, and half of s6 I just don't have the stomach for them being at odds any more. 

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  185. Mia4942 November 2011 at 23:38

    of course it's much worse when you choose to kill instead of being forced by your nature BUT once someone says they're sorry and it won't happen again and they MEAN it, it's more likely someone whose nature is not about killing is gonna stick to this promise than someone who has to kill to survive.

    in other words, it's easier to believe Cas who says he's sorry and won't do it again than an actual monster who's probably gonna kill again as soon as her son gets sick again or she just looses it at some point.

    having said that, I'm with you on putting down anyone who kills people, but the issue with Cas is way beyond that. He's a friend. A true friend, unlike Amy. He's saved the boys many times. He's sacrificed himself for the greater good many times. He gave up everything for the boys. It's hardly what Amy or any other "good" monster would do.

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  186. Shimmerinstars773 November 2011 at 01:17

    Dean had every right to think Amy should have been killed. But his callous attitude towards Sam and his cruel and unnecessary comments on top of what he just did makes me think this is Lucifer pretending ot be Dean again. And since the stuff they usually give  us in preveiws early in the episode I hope we see the real Dean coming down the steps after that other version heads for the car. As if this is really Dean he has some serious issues. My thinking is Dean projecting onto Sams situation with Amy  his with Castiel.

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  187. CyanaT3 November 2011 at 02:00

    Lenore did kill humans in the past. In Bloodlust she said "We don't kill humans [anymore]... we haven't for a long time." 

    So Lenore is not so much the exception as she was able to subdue her "nature" for an unknown number of years until Eve's pounding voice in their forced even a benign vampire like Lenore (and I'm assuming most of her "family")into resuming killing humans again. 

     

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  188. Debbie Combs3 November 2011 at 04:09

    An innocent person? He was so drunk he had to hold on to the car to bend down to pick up the keys that he couldn't manage to hold onto. Driving a car in that condition is like aiming a loaded weapon in a crowd.

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  189. Debbie Combs3 November 2011 at 04:11

    Dean did let him go. He had lucky in his sights and didn't shoot.

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  190. Debbie Combs3 November 2011 at 04:20

    The heartbeat for Ruby2 stopped for a brief moment. The blood didn't flow from Ruby1 because she didn't want it to. Just like the blood didn't flow out of Meg when she was shot. However, as soon as Meg was exorcised all of her wounds affected her because the demon was no longer there to prevent it. The body isn't dead if the demon is inside to keep the functions going..

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  191. Tiffany Anderson3 November 2011 at 18:57

    I think how Sam AND Dean feel all goes back to the line about Dean telling Sam that their FATHER told Dean if worse comes to worse, kill Sam. I honestly believe that is the root of their problem. 

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  192. Saethe4 November 2011 at 06:32

    So Dean didn't tell Sam because he couldn't handle it at the time.
    He shoud've known that they can't keep secrets from each other. Not for long. Not really. Sam was always going to find out sooner or later, and now he has to deal with both his friend dying and being lied to by his brother. If Dean really thought Sam couldn't deal with this, he shouldn't have killed Amy.

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  193. Thomas4 November 2011 at 22:47

    You should watch the episode again if you think that.

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