So the only new news is the second episode, but I have to say Supernatural fans are pretty awesome to raise that much money on just this charity. There are so many more that the fandom supports.
I would not have been surprised if that happened because it's hard to see where Castiel's character could have gone from powerful angel. I'm happy with the MegaloCas theme though. It has great potential.
He also was suppose to die, twice, in Season 4 (after the first 2-3 episodes but Sera fought against the others writers to keep him alive, then he was suppose to die at midseason but the fans loved him too much so they changed their mind again).
I'm intrigued...and I know that it won't be just two episodes (they have only started filming TODAY or was it yesterday? there is plenty of time...PLUS they have to deal with the fact that Castiel is now God...I just hope that it isn't completely resolved in episode 2 OR dragged on for half a season...)
well... as Castiel has a lot of fans, I thought that would be enough for not killing him... I think I'm quite optimistic when I know a character has a huge amount of fans... :)
I know that he was supposed to die mid-season 4 and I was pretty sure last season that they'd kill him (hence reading that was the actual plan doesn't really surprise me), but I didn't know about that first time. I'm happy they changed their minds so many times. I just hope it won't get too awkward now ... I hope it'll fit in ... and I hope they won't ruin the character.
^^; You're not alone, I'm worry too and I really hope too that they'll find a way to do honor to Cass. But I'm waiting to see what happen before judging the throwing the whole season...I have fears, I have doubt, but I'll watch and see what happen
Castiel appeared in only 1 episode in the first 5 last season. To go even further he appeared in just 5 episodes in the first 16.
Plus when the interview happened (I believe it was between June 24 & 28) the writers were probably working on episode 4, maybe 5. As Padalecki got the first two scripts (ep 3 & 1 as that is the order they are shooting) two weeks ago.
Let's say this isn't resoved by the second episode (cause I don't see how they do it that fast) then Cas could be the big adversary in S7. Which makes me wonder: How do you fight god?
I've been saying that I didn't think Cas would stay God for long - mostly because I think the idea of two humans "fighting" God is ridiculous, and this news fits what I've been thinking. I'm predicting Cas will kick up a bunch of hornet nests in the short time he's God. We already have him hinting at an angel killing spree, talking about plans for Crowley, and we have the threat of billions of monster souls being unleashed on the world if he explodes, as Balthazar had predicted. None of which sound like good news for the Winchesters. I think at the end of the second ep, Cas will start to come undone, will be horrified at what he did, but it will be left ambiguous as to whether he died or not. Heaven, Hell and monsters will turn against Sam and Dean as Cas's former ally, and they'll have to flee. Maybe further into the season they'll meet up with Cas, also on the run.
I think the more important question will be "How do you fight a close friend?" ... yah, it's quite philosophical, but to me, it's more about that than whatever-Cas-now-really-is. I just hope they can get some sense into him again ...
Good comment. A morally gray former friend with a conflicting agenda is 100 times more interesting to me than a black-and-white scenario (Cas is bad and therefore must be killed).
Castiel needs to go far ,far, far away. We need to focus on Sam and Dean , not all this angel crap. Last season Sam and Dean..I DON'T THINK SAVED ANYONE.
They find a how-to manual in the Campbell family library on fighting God.
Seriously, I was not a fan of how easily they were able to come upon the answer to killing Eve - a being that hadn't been on Earth for a couple of thousand of years and who presumably had never been killed before - yet their ancestors conveniently had written down a guide. Realistically, they shouldn't even be able to stand up against Crowley. Without Cas's protection, Crowley should be able to kill them in a heartbeat.
^^; the weird part was why she created the only being in the world that could hurt her if she's the mom of every single creature?......or destroy it, send creatures after all Phoenix or whatever^^; She created the creature that could kill her and told someone about her weakness so that someone can write it in a book ^^;
That's a big 10-4, Linda, Crystal and Olga... I'm more than ready, too, for Castiel to go to the big Pigeon Coop in the sky (off SPN, stop dumbing down Dean, Sam and Bobby to make Castiel look better ). Olga, you're right, I don't think the boys really saved anyone (directly) this season except a few "virgins" in Unforgiven and possibly a couple of d-bags from M3TR and L&B - and L was going to be dead soon but Cas saved her.
For me it's also about what do you do if a god (and former ally) is now hunting you? The stakes are higher because Cas knows them better than their former foes. That makes everything more interesting.
The thing is, if Cas is really as powerful as he appeared in the finale, he doesn't need to hunt them (assuming he wants to). All he has to do is snap his fingers and they're gone.
While I have nothing against Cas specifically, and I greatly admire Misha Collins both as an actor and a human being, I'm tired of angels on Supernatural. I want the Winchesters to solve their own problems like they used to. That's not to say I don't want them to have outside help occasionally, but angels are just too powerful IMO.
I, too am ready see the story arc of Castiel terminated.
He has always acted ambiguously towards Sam and Dean, sometimes being super-helfpul and then betrayng them. Apart from that, the story has just gotten old.
I mean what can they do with the character, keep him all powerful? Well that would be boring as he could just show up at any time. Make him human ? Then what, put him in the Impala's back seat with the brothers or send him off to stay with Bobby? No, thanks!
He did wrong and should be punished for it just as Sam was punished by 150 in Hell for his supposed messing up! I hope the real God turns up and sends him off to Heaven's prison or whatever.
I watched Wendigo last night and I found it delightful just having the two brothers fighing their battles with evil and saving people on their own, laughing and joking, with no other major characters taking too much screen time from their charismatic performances!
I understand that everything has evolved since then and must keep on doing so but it would be nice to get back just a little of those "on the road" days and catch a break from all these demons and angels, especially the angels, as at least the demons act consistently evil but the angels don't always act good!
Agreed. The angels served their purpose but they also made things too epic. It is the story of two humans fighting evil. When the evil becomes so big and complicated that they always need to rely on a bigger power outside themselves, it takes the humans out of the story and makes them secondary players in their own story.
Got to go to work but DAMN what is it I hear about 2 episode? :((( LOVE ME SOME MISHA! I'll accept it if its FUCKING AWESOME and you know justified, not omg what have we done how can we get out of this one.. oh i know kill him :P
It's not just the angels who are too powerful. This season we had the King of Hell, alphas, Mother of All, and Death - none of which the Winchesters could believably fight on their own. One thing in defense of the angels' presence is that, with the exception of Cas, most angels are not particularly interested in either killing or protecting humans. They operate out of self-interest and stir things up, without actually being evil themselves - and they can be fun characters to have around on occasion (Gabe, Balthazar). I agree that the writers needed to break the pattern of Cas fighting Sam and Dean's battles, but no matter which way this goes, with the rift that has developed between them, I don't see the three of them falling into that habit again.
Can we not turn this into a Cas/Misha bashing session? We just finished with the Sam bashing one, and it would be nice to get a break from the character hate for a while.
I found Cas's character arc to be one of the more interesting ones on the show, probably because he's not human, and that gave him a unique perspective. I'd like to see how his story - and his connection to the story of souls - continues to evolve next season. We started this season with a lesson on the importance of a soul on a human, only to find near the end that Sam and Dean's trusted friend doesn't have a soul and seems to be not fully equipped to be making the moral decisions that come with free will. I have more sympathy with Castiel because a lot of his decisions mirrored what the Winchesters have done over and over again. He seemed to be applying what he had learned. He chose not to bow down before someone he knew was corrupt and wrong but instead fight. He then chose to form a partnership with what he perceived to be the lesser evil, overestimating his own ability to control the situation. However, without a soul, he seemed to have only a partial awareness of the how far he was sliding, and at the end, Crowley had succeeded in isolating Cas from his friends and turning him dark.
I think Cas deserves the chance for redemption, rather than punishment, just like I never thought Sam ever deserved to go to Hell for what he did. I'd love to see him get a soul - something I think he has wanted since he first witnessed Anna's friendship with the Winchesters.
I agree with you but with the writers you never know what to expect.
I would LOVE Castiel to be the big bad of the season-- I think that Misha could definitely pull it off acting wise AND it would give the season a dramatic angsty feel because for the first time ever, the Winchesters will be up against a former friend who knows all about them. Crowley was just tip of the iceberg just imagine what Castiel would do with his knowledge of the Winchesters! And the Dean angst would go through the roof plus it would give a nice contrast to S4 Sam....
I don't begrudge Castiel his redemption by any means, everyone can be redeemed but after all he is a superior being, an angel, and if Sam made a big mistake in consorting with a demon and lying about it, then Castiel made a huge one.
However that's not the point I was trying to make, the point is what can his future be in regards to the on-going story?
If they find a logical way to integrate him, fair enough.
In season 4 and 5 he was an essential part of the arc and he had some great moments but I just feel that the angel story in general has gotten a bit tired.
I have nothing against Castiel, but I would just like more emphasis on the adventures of Sam and Dean, regards
No more Dean angst, please. We had him angsting over Lisa and Ben last season, I'd rather not see him angsting over Castiel all the time. I'd like to actually see Sam focused on with his memories and such for a change. I'd like to see Sam angst. We haven't had Sam angst for a very very long time.
I don't think this story has angels as superior beings. Free will = souls = power. Humans have free will and souls. Humans have power. Angels and demons are like parasites that feed off the power of human souls. God prefers humans.
But anyway, that's beside the point.
I don't think Cas dying, staying all powerful, riding in the backseat of the Impala, or living with Bobby are the only options. Among the scenarios I could see:
- Cas doesn't return the souls but keeps them contained in his grace. He cuts off his grace and goes on the run to prevent angels or Crowley from finding and stealing the souls. Dean and Sam join Cas in his cause of trying to protect the souls and go on the run together. - Cas loses a lot of his power and wants redemption but too much has happened for him and the Winchesters to forgive each other. Cas still has power - his knowledge, Heavens nukes, and maybe other weapons - and he is somewhat of a loose cannon that the Winchesters occasionally come upon in their travels. - Cas loses the souls but Crowley has corrupted him and he occasionally meets up with the Winchesters, often on opposite sides. - Cas becomes human, gets a soul, and then at some point becomes an angel again, but this time keeps his soul. He's the alpha in the evolutionary process of angels becoming into souled creatures and goes off to Heaven to lead the new breed of angels.
My point is is that there are a lot of directions this story could go. Cas really didn't have a lot of screen time in season 6 (he was in the same number of episodes as Bobby), but he still had a good story. His character can continue to evolve without stealing much screen time from Sam and Dean.
I think whether Sam and Dean have good storylines is dependent on other factors. Both Sam and Dean had a lot of screen time in season 6, yet a number of fans from both sides found the quality of that screentime unsatisfactory (for me it was that I hated the RoboSam arc, the lack of Sam's perspective in the storytelling, and the Lisa/Ben storyline). Cas's storyline wasn't to blame and turned out to be the bright spot of the season for me in the end.
I felt the same about season 6. Cas's story became more interesting than Dean and Sam's storylines. And this is coming from someone who likes Castiel, but loves Sam and Dean above all other characters. Dean's storyline was dealt with pretty poorly, and I hated the soulless Sam storyline. And frankly, I'm not interested in the Hell memories part of the story either, because Dean's Hell storyline, been there, done that. I'm hoping this season the boys have more interesting things to do.
Kyelinn, there is nothing that I would love more than Sam angst but like browniegirl27 said...apparently the writers don't do equally opportunity-- either you get the angst for the Dean and the mythology for Sam. That is how it has been since S4....and you can't change it
I spent most of the first half of last season hoping that the reason Sam's soul was missing was that it never went to Hell. But apparently it did. This the path the writers chose, so now I want to hear Sam's story. If it's the exact same story as Dean's, I wouldn't want them to spend a lot of time on it. But I'm hoping that since Sam was the "boy king" and had a different relationship with demons and Lucifer than Dean did, then the writers can come up with something a little more creative.
I don't know. Maybe they can make it interesting. I guess my problem is that Dean's Hell storyline was angsty and exhausting. Don't get me wrong, I like angst, I'm just not looking forward to dealing with more Hell angst.
After season 5 and the apocalypse probably the writers didn't really know themselves which road to go down so the started plot lines and then changed directions so season 6 a was a bit patchy!
However we can theorise as much as we want but in the end it's the writers who call the shots so we'll just have to wait and see what they cook up and we can go from there, regards
And since when did you write the rules? Why can't there be change? Just because it's been that way since Season 4, doesn't mean that there won't be differences, and having Hell/soulless memories and suffering from them isn't exactly mythology.
True. Which is why I don't want that to happen. I'd like Dean to actually have a storyline where he does more than just angst about Castiel and Sam's situations. Some angsting is ok, even believable, but I'm hoping he has more to do.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want to see Dean have a story as well, and I'm not going to doubt the writers until I see the season. Honestly, Dean has dealt with so much emotional stuff, I'd like to see him not for once. I'd like to see him support Sam, not angst over him. I'd like to see Dean have a definitive arc, and I have faith. I just don't want to see him angsting over Castiel all season, you know?
I am sorry if my wording came off like that-- I was only referring to the way the writers have written the boys over the course of the show and it has become a consistent trend. I think that there is a clear definition of which character gets what aspect of the storyline.
I can only hope that what you've written about Sam will come true in the season...
But that's the most interesting part about all of this. No matter how powerful ge got ... he'd never hurt Dean & Sam. And I don't think that was only so he could finish with his plans. No matter how powerful he gets ... he still somehow knows / feels they're friends (family?). So even if they do something that would actually make him kill them ... I doubt he would. Or rather, I doubt he could. (Maybe that's me hoping for some good in Cas. But that's how it seems to me)
He hurt Sam when he took down his wall. But yes, I hope his ending statement in season 6 is a bluff the Winchesters can call. Still, it sounds to me like the synopsis the CW put out has the brothers on the run from an enemy that knows them well. That sounds like Cas to me, but these writers love their twists so who knows. Can't wait until the premiere to find out. Until then, everything's a guess.
It's obvious the writers have no clue what to do with Castiel's character, so maybe it is best that he goes. Hopefully, it's on less of a sour note though, cause really, Castiel has had nothing but good intentions. He's just like the Winchesters in that respect.
And you know, to people who don't like Castiel... you can't deny the fact that Castiel has become apart of their little universe. He is apart of the circle. He's a comrade, a friend. One of the team. And as Dean said (more eloquently, of course), he has done a lot for them, including sacrificing himself. You can't just get rid of that.
But that is characteristic of this show, isn't it? So you can just ignore me.
Also, I really like the idea of Random Acts. If I had money I'd give them some.
Yah, everything's a guess until then. I just can't wait to find out how this is gonna turn out, because I'm still kind of scared. I love Cas and I especially loved that he was this Angel who kind of played in both teams ... and who was always loyal to Dean & Sam when it came down to it. The thought of Cas now actually truly fighting against them, maybe even being willing to kill them if they cross him ... that thought just kinda hurts. It's not what I'd like to happy, but I'm scared it will. (Dean & Sam having to take him down is just as bad, of course)
It's fine. Misunderstandings happen, and while there might have been a trend, I really don't see why things can't change or be different. They want to give us the Butch and Sundance theme this year, they want to give us the brothers, they've turned Castiel dark and they want to tell us a new story. Why can't things change? I have faith that they can, I have faith that something can be different.
There's nothing wrong with having hope. I've just had my fill of Dean angst. It's too hard to watch him like that while Sam stands in the background internalizing everything. Sam's going to have the real emotional problems this season. He's going to need to get that out eventually. He can't internalize forever.
Agreed but here lies the problem Sam doesnt have a mytharc for next season so what do the writers do? do they actually for once give Sam a human story with human emotions ? dont think they can because they either dont khow or dont care. So we are left with what ?.They will have to decide.
I think this past year he has done things that they would consider hurtful (using them as bait, letting Crowley use Sam and then later Dean, and crashing the wall), but his Achilles heal seems to be the threat that something might kill them and that he won't be able to bring them back. So while I think he sees hurting them as a necessary price for the greater good, if he was ever faced with really losing them (especially Dean), that might be the trigger that could shock him into coming down from his God trip and becoming the old Cas again.
I don't think Sam had a mythic arc in season 6 either. The year started off looking like Sam's story would be it, but not much developed there, and it ended with the revelation that Cas's story was the real mythic arc.
The Dean angst hasn't put me off the show, but it's just been laid on a little too thick for me. Plus I love Dean, and I don't like seeing him so messed up all the time. I love Sam, and I don't like seeing him hiding himself and internalizing everything. I'd like to see Sam angst and get everything out to his brother and for Dean to be there for Sam to lean on this time.
Yes, was thinking along the same lines. If all the hiding places, all the weapons and their knowledge is useless (that's how I read it somewhere). It will be like they have to learn hunting all over again. OK, weird picture crossed my mind: The brothers sitting in Bobbys livingroom learning hunting 101 :)
I've assumed that the MOAM didnt "give birth/create" the Phoenix and another entity that opposed the MOAM did and maybe that entity will be introduced in S7.
I lke that! You're right. I am also leaning back and enjoying the ride (sometimes more, sometimes less but still supernatural)! And I go where the writers take me. But I guess people like thoerizing about what could be and as long as they are civil to each other it is fun hearing their thoughts. It sometimes makes me see another angle of what I thought and other possibilities of what might or might not happen.Truth is, in the end I am even more excited than I was before.
I just hope that overall, the writers do a better job with Season 7. I felt like they started out with a good a idea, but then made too many decisions based on fan reactions and by mid season it seemed like they had lost focus on their orginal "film noir" idea entirely.
I don't see how that's really a surprise. I mean it took years and years and years...and years for Eric to create and work on his 5 years plan way before the pilot was written and the pilot himself was writtern so many time with so many variations from one version to another (from Jess staying alive and/or finding their dad being death at the end of the episode...etc). I don't see why people are surprise and scream that the writers are stupid or osmething like that cause they couldn't create in a couple of months a story as big as something created in YEARS. it's totally normal^^; and now they can only step on next season and go forward
DUDE?!?! Why are there so many comments about getting rid of Castiel just because the angels' story is getting old? Remember 5x04 'The End' ? Castiel can fall, and become human, and follow the Winchesters. They are his family, not heaven. It is where he belongs. "Most of the time, I'd rather be here." T-T Give Cas what he wants!!
If its time for the angels to go so we can focus on the Winchesters, then I'm ok with that. But this story is no longer about TWO Winchesters, its about THREE Winchesters, because Cas is an honorary member. We need the Profound Bond!! Dean has already lost so much, don't split them up!
I really believe Dean has grown to need Cas just as much as he does Sam. He even said this was the case! "Like a brother to me" And if he doesnt do everything he can to save God!Cas or die trying (just like he did for Lucifer!Sam) I will NEVER forgive Dean!!!
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Ugh. Get RID of him already!
ReplyDeleteJust 2 episodes...kinda not good new for me...I hope he will return for more.
ReplyDeletewow, really? "And since the original plan was for Castiel to die in season six before the producers revised their position,"
ReplyDeleteSo the only new news is the second episode, but I have to say Supernatural fans are pretty awesome to raise that much money on just this charity. There are so many more that the fandom supports.
ReplyDeleteI would not have been surprised if that happened because it's hard to see where Castiel's character could have gone from powerful angel. I'm happy with the MegaloCas theme though. It has great potential.
ReplyDeleteHe also was suppose to die, twice, in Season 4 (after the first 2-3 episodes but Sera fought against the others writers to keep him alive, then he was suppose to die at midseason but the fans loved him too much so they changed their mind again).
ReplyDeleteI'm intrigued...and I know that it won't be just two episodes (they have only started filming TODAY or was it yesterday? there is plenty of time...PLUS they have to deal with the fact that Castiel is now God...I just hope that it isn't completely resolved in episode 2 OR dragged on for half a season...)
ReplyDeletewell... as Castiel has a lot of fans, I thought that would be enough for not killing him... I think I'm quite optimistic when I know a character has a huge amount of fans... :)
ReplyDelete:O I didn't know that... so it's kinda miraculous he's still alive!! :)
ReplyDeleteI know that he was supposed to die mid-season 4 and I was pretty sure last season that they'd kill him (hence reading that was the actual plan doesn't really surprise me), but I didn't know about that first time.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy they changed their minds so many times.
I just hope it won't get too awkward now ... I hope it'll fit in ... and I hope they won't ruin the character.
^^; You're not alone, I'm worry too and I really hope too that they'll find a way to do honor to Cass. But I'm waiting to see what happen before judging the throwing the whole season...I have fears, I have doubt, but I'll watch and see what happen
ReplyDeleteI'd say no way it's done by the second episode, but I can see Cas being the big bad for the season.
ReplyDeleteCastiel appeared in only 1 episode in the first 5 last season. To go even further he appeared in just 5 episodes in the first 16.
ReplyDeletePlus when the interview happened (I believe it was between June 24 & 28) the writers were probably working on episode 4, maybe 5. As Padalecki got the first two scripts (ep 3 & 1 as that is the order they are shooting) two weeks ago.
Let's say this isn't resoved by the second episode (cause I don't see how they do it that fast) then Cas could be the big adversary in S7. Which makes me wonder: How do you fight god?
ReplyDeleteI've been saying that I didn't think Cas would stay God for long - mostly because I think the idea of two humans "fighting" God is ridiculous, and this news fits what I've been thinking. I'm predicting Cas will kick up a bunch of hornet nests in the short time he's God. We already have him hinting at an angel killing spree, talking about plans for Crowley, and we have the threat of billions of monster souls being unleashed on the world if he explodes, as Balthazar had predicted. None of which sound like good news for the Winchesters. I think at the end of the second ep, Cas will start to come undone, will be horrified at what he did, but it will be left ambiguous as to whether he died or not. Heaven, Hell and monsters will turn against Sam and Dean as Cas's former ally, and they'll have to flee. Maybe further into the season they'll meet up with Cas, also on the run.
ReplyDeleteI think the more important question will be "How do you fight a close friend?" ... yah, it's quite philosophical, but to me, it's more about that than whatever-Cas-now-really-is.
ReplyDeleteI just hope they can get some sense into him again ...
Good comment. A morally gray former friend with a conflicting agenda is 100 times more interesting to me than a black-and-white scenario (Cas is bad and therefore must be killed).
ReplyDeleteCastiel needs to go far ,far, far away. We need to focus on Sam and Dean , not all this angel crap. Last season Sam and Dean..I DON'T THINK SAVED ANYONE.
ReplyDeleteThey find a how-to manual in the Campbell family library on fighting God.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, I was not a fan of how easily they were able to come upon the answer to killing Eve - a being that hadn't been on Earth for a couple of thousand of years and who presumably had never been killed before - yet their ancestors conveniently had written down a guide. Realistically, they shouldn't even be able to stand up against Crowley. Without Cas's protection, Crowley should be able to kill them in a heartbeat.
I'm ready for Castiel to go already. His presence has taken the focus off the Winchesters and that is not good.
ReplyDelete^^; the weird part was why she created the only being in the world that could hurt her if she's the mom of every single creature?......or destroy it, send creatures after all Phoenix or whatever^^; She created the creature that could kill her and told someone about her weakness so that someone can write it in a book ^^;
ReplyDeleteI agree .. I think his addition has hurt not helped the show !
ReplyDeleteSame here !! I thing Cas is beyond bland not is MIsha a great actor either. He is one dimentional !
ReplyDeleteThat's a big 10-4, Linda, Crystal and Olga... I'm more than ready, too, for Castiel to go to the big Pigeon Coop in the sky (off SPN, stop dumbing down Dean, Sam and Bobby to make Castiel look better ). Olga, you're right, I don't think the boys really saved anyone (directly) this season except a few "virgins" in Unforgiven and possibly a couple of d-bags from M3TR and L&B - and L was going to be dead soon but Cas saved her.
ReplyDeleteFor me it's also about what do you do if a god (and former ally) is now hunting you? The stakes are higher because Cas knows them better than their former foes. That makes everything more interesting.
ReplyDeleteI would love for the brothers to be in more hunts that they can reasonably fight on their own.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, if Cas is really as powerful as he appeared in the finale, he doesn't need to hunt them (assuming he wants to). All he has to do is snap his fingers and they're gone.
ReplyDeleteWhile I have nothing against Cas specifically, and I greatly admire Misha Collins both as an actor and a human being, I'm tired of angels on Supernatural. I want the Winchesters to solve their own problems like they used to. That's not to say I don't want them to have outside help occasionally, but angels are just too powerful IMO.
ReplyDeleteI, too am ready see the story arc of Castiel terminated.
ReplyDeleteHe has always acted ambiguously towards Sam and Dean, sometimes being super-helfpul and then betrayng them.
Apart from that, the story has just gotten old.
I mean what can they do with the character, keep him all powerful? Well that would be boring as he could just show up at any time. Make him human ? Then what, put him in the Impala's back seat with the brothers or send him off to stay with Bobby?
No, thanks!
He did wrong and should be punished for it just as Sam was punished by 150 in Hell for his supposed messing up! I hope the real God turns up and sends him off to Heaven's prison or whatever.
I watched Wendigo last night and I found it delightful just having the two brothers fighing their battles with evil and saving people on their own, laughing and joking, with no other major characters taking too much screen time from their charismatic performances!
I understand that everything has evolved since then and must keep on doing so but it would be nice to get back just a little of those "on the road" days and catch a break from all these demons and angels, especially the angels, as at least the demons act consistently evil but the angels don't always act good!
Agreed. The angels served their purpose but they also made things too epic. It is the story of two humans fighting evil. When the evil becomes so big and complicated that they always need to rely on a bigger power outside themselves, it takes the humans out of the story and makes them secondary players in their own story.
ReplyDeleteHoping we get set photos soon!
ReplyDeleteGot to go to work but DAMN what is it I hear about 2 episode? :((( LOVE ME SOME MISHA! I'll accept it if its FUCKING AWESOME and you know justified, not omg what have we done how can we get out of this one.. oh i know kill him :P
ReplyDeleteANY WAY gone, reading in 9 hours
It's not just the angels who are too powerful. This season we had the King of Hell, alphas, Mother of All, and Death - none of which the Winchesters could believably fight on their own. One thing in defense of the angels' presence is that, with the exception of Cas, most angels are not particularly interested in either killing or protecting humans. They operate out of self-interest and stir things up, without actually being evil themselves - and they can be fun characters to have around on occasion (Gabe, Balthazar). I agree that the writers needed to break the pattern of Cas fighting Sam and Dean's battles, but no matter which way this goes, with the rift that has developed between them, I don't see the three of them falling into that habit again.
ReplyDeleteCan we not turn this into a Cas/Misha bashing session? We just finished with the Sam bashing one, and it would be nice to get a break from the character hate for a while.
ReplyDeleteI found Cas's character arc to be one of the more interesting ones on the show, probably because he's not human, and that gave him a unique perspective. I'd like to see how his story - and his connection to the story of souls - continues to evolve next season. We started this season with a lesson on the importance of a soul on a human, only to find near the end that Sam and Dean's trusted friend doesn't have a soul and seems to be not fully equipped to be making the moral decisions that come with free will. I have more sympathy with Castiel because a lot of his decisions mirrored what the Winchesters have done over and over again. He seemed to be applying what he had learned. He chose not to bow down before someone he knew was corrupt and wrong but instead fight. He then chose to form a partnership with what he perceived to be the lesser evil, overestimating his own ability to control the situation. However, without a soul, he seemed to have only a partial awareness of the how far he was sliding, and at the end, Crowley had succeeded in isolating Cas from his friends and turning him dark.
ReplyDeleteI think Cas deserves the chance for redemption, rather than punishment, just like I never thought Sam ever deserved to go to Hell for what he did. I'd love to see him get a soul - something I think he has wanted since he first witnessed Anna's friendship with the Winchesters.
I agree with you but with the writers you never know what to expect.
ReplyDeleteI would LOVE Castiel to be the big bad of the season-- I think that Misha could definitely pull it off acting wise AND it would give the season a dramatic angsty feel because for the first time ever, the Winchesters will be up against a former friend who knows all about them. Crowley was just tip of the iceberg just imagine what Castiel would do with his knowledge of the Winchesters!
And the Dean angst would go through the roof plus it would give a nice contrast to S4 Sam....
Just my opinion :)
Cas is a great member of SPN--Sam and Dean still dominate the show and have by far the most heroics. Having Cas in support makes SPN better.
ReplyDeleteI don't begrudge Castiel his redemption by any means, everyone can be redeemed but after all he is a superior being, an angel, and if Sam made a big mistake in consorting with a demon and lying about it, then Castiel made a huge one.
ReplyDeleteHowever that's not the point I was trying to make, the point is what can his future be in regards to the on-going story?
If they find a logical way to integrate him, fair enough.
In season 4 and 5 he was an essential part of the arc and he had some great moments but I just feel that the angel story in general has gotten a bit tired.
I have nothing against Castiel, but I would just like more emphasis on the adventures of Sam and Dean, regards
No more Dean angst, please. We had him angsting over Lisa and Ben last season, I'd rather not see him angsting over Castiel all the time. I'd like to actually see Sam focused on with his memories and such for a change. I'd like to see Sam angst. We haven't had Sam angst for a very very long time.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this story has angels as superior beings. Free will = souls = power. Humans have free will and souls. Humans have power. Angels and demons are like parasites that feed off the power of human souls. God prefers humans.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway, that's beside the point.
I don't think Cas dying, staying all powerful, riding in the backseat of the Impala, or living with Bobby are the only options. Among the scenarios I could see:
- Cas doesn't return the souls but keeps them contained in his grace. He cuts off his grace and goes on the run to prevent angels or Crowley from finding and stealing the souls. Dean and Sam join Cas in his cause of trying to protect the souls and go on the run together.
- Cas loses a lot of his power and wants redemption but too much has happened for him and the Winchesters to forgive each other. Cas still has power - his knowledge, Heavens nukes, and maybe other weapons - and he is somewhat of a loose cannon that the Winchesters occasionally come upon in their travels.
- Cas loses the souls but Crowley has corrupted him and he occasionally meets up with the Winchesters, often on opposite sides.
- Cas becomes human, gets a soul, and then at some point becomes an angel again, but this time keeps his soul. He's the alpha in the evolutionary process of angels becoming into souled creatures and goes off to Heaven to lead the new breed of angels.
My point is is that there are a lot of directions this story could go. Cas really didn't have a lot of screen time in season 6 (he was in the same number of episodes as Bobby), but he still had a good story. His character can continue to evolve without stealing much screen time from Sam and Dean.
I think whether Sam and Dean have good storylines is dependent on other factors. Both Sam and Dean had a lot of screen time in season 6, yet a number of fans from both sides found the quality of that screentime unsatisfactory (for me it was that I hated the RoboSam arc, the lack of Sam's perspective in the storytelling, and the Lisa/Ben storyline). Cas's storyline wasn't to blame and turned out to be the bright spot of the season for me in the end.
So, what would you like to see Dean do? He's got to have some kind of story.
ReplyDeleteI felt the same about season 6. Cas's story became more interesting than Dean and Sam's storylines. And this is coming from someone who likes Castiel, but loves Sam and Dean above all other characters. Dean's storyline was dealt with pretty poorly, and I hated the soulless Sam storyline. And frankly, I'm not interested in the Hell memories part of the story either, because Dean's Hell storyline, been there, done that. I'm hoping this season the boys have more interesting things to do.
ReplyDeleteKyelinn, there is nothing that I would love more than Sam angst but like browniegirl27 said...apparently the writers don't do equally opportunity-- either you get the angst for the Dean and the mythology for Sam. That is how it has been since S4....and you can't change it
ReplyDeleteI spent most of the first half of last season hoping that the reason Sam's soul was missing was that it never went to Hell. But apparently it did. This the path the writers chose, so now I want to hear Sam's story. If it's the exact same story as Dean's, I wouldn't want them to spend a lot of time on it. But I'm hoping that since Sam was the "boy king" and had a different relationship with demons and Lucifer than Dean did, then the writers can come up with something a little more creative.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Maybe they can make it interesting. I guess my problem is that Dean's Hell storyline was angsty and exhausting. Don't get me wrong, I like angst, I'm just not looking forward to dealing with more Hell angst.
ReplyDeleteAfter season 5 and the apocalypse probably the writers didn't really know themselves which road to go down so the started plot lines and then changed directions so season 6 a was a bit patchy!
ReplyDeleteHowever we can theorise as much as we want but in the end it's the writers who call the shots so we'll just have to wait and see what they cook up and we can go from there, regards
Angsting over Castiel is not a story.
ReplyDeleteAnd since when did you write the rules? Why can't there be change? Just because it's been that way since Season 4, doesn't mean that there won't be differences, and having Hell/soulless memories and suffering from them isn't exactly mythology.
ReplyDeleteYup. Angst can be exhausting. I get it.
ReplyDeleteTrue. Which is why I don't want that to happen. I'd like Dean to actually have a storyline where he does more than just angst about Castiel and Sam's situations. Some angsting is ok, even believable, but I'm hoping he has more to do.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you wholeheartedly. I want to see Dean have a story as well, and I'm not going to doubt the writers until I see the season. Honestly, Dean has dealt with so much emotional stuff, I'd like to see him not for once. I'd like to see him support Sam, not angst over him. I'd like to see Dean have a definitive arc, and I have faith. I just don't want to see him angsting over Castiel all season, you know?
ReplyDeleteI am sorry if my wording came off like that-- I was only referring to the way the writers have written the boys over the course of the show and it has become a consistent trend. I think that there is a clear definition of which character gets what aspect of the storyline.
ReplyDeleteI can only hope that what you've written about Sam will come true in the season...
But that's the most interesting part about all of this. No matter how powerful ge got ... he'd never hurt Dean & Sam. And I don't think that was only so he could finish with his plans. No matter how powerful he gets ... he still somehow knows / feels they're friends (family?). So even if they do something that would actually make him kill them ... I doubt he would. Or rather, I doubt he could.
ReplyDelete(Maybe that's me hoping for some good in Cas. But that's how it seems to me)
He hurt Sam when he took down his wall. But yes, I hope his ending statement in season 6 is a bluff the Winchesters can call. Still, it sounds to me like the synopsis the CW put out has the brothers on the run from an enemy that knows them well. That sounds like Cas to me, but these writers love their twists so who knows. Can't wait until the premiere to find out. Until then, everything's a guess.
ReplyDeleteIt's
ReplyDeleteobvious the writers have no clue what to do with Castiel's character,
so maybe it is best that he goes. Hopefully, it's on less of a sour note
though, cause really, Castiel has had nothing but good intentions. He's
just like the Winchesters in that respect.
And you know, to people who don't like Castiel... you can't deny the
fact that Castiel has become apart of their little universe. He is apart
of the circle. He's a comrade, a friend. One of the team. And as Dean
said (more eloquently, of course), he has done a lot for them, including sacrificing himself. You can't just get rid of
that.
But that is characteristic of this show, isn't it? So you can just ignore me.
Also, I really like the idea of Random Acts. If I had money I'd give them some.
Yah, everything's a guess until then.
ReplyDeleteI just can't wait to find out how this is gonna turn out, because I'm still kind of scared. I love Cas and I especially loved that he was this Angel who kind of played in both teams ... and who was always loyal to Dean & Sam when it came down to it.
The thought of Cas now actually truly fighting against them, maybe even being willing to kill them if they cross him ... that thought just kinda hurts. It's not what I'd like to happy, but I'm scared it will.
(Dean & Sam having to take him down is just as bad, of course)
It's fine. Misunderstandings happen, and while there might have been a trend, I really don't see why things can't change or be different. They want to give us the Butch and Sundance theme this year, they want to give us the brothers, they've turned Castiel dark and they want to tell us a new story. Why can't things change? I have faith that they can, I have faith that something can be different.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with having hope. I've just had my fill of Dean angst. It's too hard to watch him like that while Sam stands in the background internalizing everything. Sam's going to have the real emotional problems this season. He's going to need to get that out eventually. He can't internalize forever.
Agreed but here lies the problem Sam doesnt have a mytharc for next season so what do the writers do? do they actually for once give Sam a human story with human emotions ? dont think they can because they either dont khow or dont care. So we are left with what ?.They will have to decide.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with this whole comment. All the Dean angst has actually put me off the show almost completely :(
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that I pray that you're right :)
I think this past year he has done things that they would consider hurtful (using them as bait, letting Crowley use Sam and then later Dean, and crashing the wall), but his Achilles heal seems to be the threat that something might kill them and that he won't be able to bring them back. So while I think he sees hurting them as a necessary price for the greater good, if he was ever faced with really losing them (especially Dean), that might be the trigger that could shock him into coming down from his God trip and becoming the old Cas again.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you :)
ReplyDeleteI don't think Sam had a mythic arc in season 6 either. The year started off looking like Sam's story would be it, but not much developed there, and it ended with the revelation that Cas's story was the real mythic arc.
ReplyDeleteThe Dean angst hasn't put me off the show, but it's just been laid on a little too thick for me. Plus I love Dean, and I don't like seeing him so messed up all the time. I love Sam, and I don't like seeing him hiding himself and internalizing everything. I'd like to see Sam angst and get everything out to his brother and for Dean to be there for Sam to lean on this time.
ReplyDeleteYes, was thinking along the same lines.
ReplyDeleteIf all the hiding places, all the weapons and their knowledge is useless (that's how I read it somewhere). It will be like they have to learn hunting all over again.
OK, weird picture crossed my mind: The brothers sitting in Bobbys livingroom learning hunting 101 :)
I think the writers especially Ben Edlund write well for Cas and largely integrate him well in support of the boys.
ReplyDeleteI've assumed that the MOAM didnt "give birth/create" the Phoenix and another entity that opposed the MOAM did and maybe that entity will be introduced in S7.
ReplyDeleteI lke that! You're right. I am also leaning back and enjoying the ride (sometimes more, sometimes less but still supernatural)! And I go where the writers take me.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess people like thoerizing about what could be and as long as they are civil to each other it is fun hearing their thoughts. It sometimes makes me see another angle of what I thought and other possibilities of what might or might not happen.Truth is, in the end I am even more excited than I was before.
Maybe 'they don't know what to do with him' is a little extreme.
ReplyDeleteI just hope that overall, the writers do a better job with Season 7. I felt like they started out with a good a idea, but then made too many decisions based on fan reactions and by mid season it seemed like they had lost focus on their orginal "film noir" idea entirely.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how that's really a surprise. I mean it took years and years and years...and years for Eric to create and work on his 5 years plan way before the pilot was written and the pilot himself was writtern so many time with so many variations from one version to another (from Jess staying alive and/or finding their dad being death at the end of the episode...etc). I don't see why people are surprise and scream that the writers are stupid or osmething like that cause they couldn't create in a couple of months a story as big as something created in YEARS. it's totally normal^^; and now they can only step on next season and go forward
ReplyDeleteDUDE?!?! Why are there so many comments about getting rid of Castiel just because the angels' story is getting old?
ReplyDeleteRemember 5x04 'The End' ? Castiel can fall, and become human, and follow the Winchesters. They are his family, not heaven. It is where he belongs.
"Most of the time, I'd rather be here." T-T Give Cas what he wants!!
If its time for the angels to go so we can focus on the Winchesters, then I'm ok with that. But this story is no longer about TWO Winchesters, its about THREE Winchesters, because Cas is an honorary member.
We need the Profound Bond!! Dean has already lost so much, don't split them up!
I really believe Dean has grown to need Cas just as much as he does Sam. He even said this was the case! "Like a brother to me" And if he doesnt do everything he can to save God!Cas or die trying (just like he did for Lucifer!Sam) I will NEVER forgive Dean!!!