Ever since Death put up the shaky wall in Sam's head, shielding him from the memories of Hell and all the badness that came with it, the audience of Supernatural has been counting down until the day it starts crumbling. You knew it was going to happen. It's been the elephant in the room since this whole mess started. Death tells Sam don't scratch the wall, else bad things will happen. Dean tells Sam don't scratch the wall, else bad things will happen. And what does Sam do? Pokes and scratches at it until minor cracks start emerging. One trickle of memories gives way to another trickle of memories and then he finds himself seizing on the floor at the end of “Unforgiven” because bad things will indeed happen if you scratch the wall. Who could have guessed? But Sammy has a soul now and he needs to make penance for all the bad things he's done, so if that means he's got to sacrifice his own well-being to do it, then that's what he's willing to gamble.However, if just a few seconds of memories causes Sam to have a seizure, what will 150 years of Hell memories flooding back do to him? Well, fans are going to find out before this season is over! Series creator Eric Kripke, who is writing the Season Six finale, has promised a follow-through on the issue. “I will say we conclusively deal with Sam's amnesia and the fact that he doesn't remember what happened to him in hell. He's got this bit of drywall in his head, but it's a shabby, unstable piece of drywall and it's only a matter of time before the wall falls down, and in the finale, the wall falls down.”
Now, before you start rejoicing, think of the possible ramifications from this event. Sure, they could cop out with a quick scene of seizing torment on the part of Sam and then all is well again, but this is Kripke we're talking about. And this is 150 years of pure torture that Sam went through, not to mention the topside memories of Soulless!Sam that will come along with it. So the younger Winchester is set to acquire two sets of simultaneous memories, neither of which are pleasant, and then has to deal with them. I'd say a seizure is the least of his worries at this point.
I've feared how they could legitimately deal with this situation ever since Sam came back without a soul in the first place. Castiel has warned that Sam's soul currently feels like it was skinned alive. A return of memories, according to Cas, could mean Sam will be driven insane and locked away inside his own mind for the rest of his life. Is this a likelihood? Well, it would certainly be a great cliffhanger as we await a possible Season Seven. But, I feel that the show has to strike a delicate balance on this matter. They can't let Sam off too easily, else the build-up would have been for nothing. On the other hand, they can't damage Sam beyond repair because it wouldn't be the show if Dean's off fighting on his own while Sam's locked up in a mental hospital somewhere.
How do you think they'll deal with the wall coming down? It's left to Kripke's hands at this point and I have the utmost faith that he'll give us a perfect balance of torture and triumph. Poor Sammy, that mental drywall wasn't going to last forever.
Always trust the Kripke and the Gamble. That is what I say.
ReplyDeleteThey've given us great twists and turns over the years :) The whole time it was emerging about how Sam was acting, before we knew it was because of the lack of soul, I kept assuring people "trust Sera...she knows what she's doing."
ReplyDeleteI have faith in Kripke, but I have no idea how they will make the ramifications serious enough and not completely debilitate Sam?
ReplyDeleteThis is will be an awesome way of ending the season. I just hope we get word soon about season 7 coming up right around the corner! Every season we have been left in suspense after the season finale, so I expect nothing different this time, but this is going to be brutal!
ReplyDeleteI am saying a prayer to the renewal gods out there for good word about a renewal very soon! Everyone with me?
It's going to be tricky. I mean, we've already seen what happens when he gets just a glimpse. How bad will it be when the whole flood washes over him?
ReplyDeleteI think they're waiting for the changing of the guard at CW before announcing the renewal? Either way, it would be bad business to now renew (plus, Kripke wrote the finale to end on a cliffhanger, so....need resolution!)
ReplyDeleteFirst it was a year, and second since the majority of fans are NOT interested in the Wall-O-Sam, Kripke and Gamble should have left well enought alone. Any cliffhanger for next season should NOT involve any more mythology OR Sam and his Wall. I have heard so many people on so many site, totally tuning OUT the finale becasue of it.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be incredible.
ReplyDeletePeople can (and do) bitch about how much S6 sucks (which in my opinion is WRONG - S6 overall has been fantastic - if a little different to what we're used to) but Kripke and Gamble have both been there through everything and will make sure we suffer big time. Cuz that's their goal in life (apart from making the coolest show ever) they live to torture the fans.
And if that means torturing Sam in order to do justice to the storyline, then I say bring in on.
But, my poor Sammy :(
Poor Dean :(
Poor US :(
Ummm first of all, do NOT speak for other fans. The majority of fans are NOT interested in Sam's wall? Yeah, sweetheart, you're NOT the majority, I'm sorry to say. And wow, so many people on this site tuning out of the finale because of it? Where? Because that's news to me.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I've been waiting for, I want to know what happened to Sam in the cage and I want to know what else RoboSam got up to during that year just like so many other fans. I can not wait. Bring it on Kripke!
ReplyDeleteOh and I could care less if a few Dean/Jensen fans decide not to watch because the episode/storyline isn't all about Dean, the ratings are still good enough for renewal without them and really they just need to get over themselves.
Sorry to all the genuine fans of this show but the bitchiness is getting pathetic.
Sam's soul had been gone a year and a half before he got it back so that's over 150 years (closer to 180 years) of torment.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can appreciate a differing viewpoint. I wouldn't say the majority of fans are not interested in the coming mental breakdown, but I'm sad that someone would decide not to watch the finale because of it.
Season Six has taken the show in interesting directions for writing. Sera has repeatedly said it would be different, so fans were forewarned. I trust Kripke and Sera tremendously and they haven't let me down yet.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better! <3
ReplyDeleteI have thoroughly enjoyed season 6! I'm glad they changed things up and made it different. It's kept things interesting! I trust Kripke & Gamble to do the story justice, they've never let me down in the past. I don't understand why ppl. would be resistant to new directions in the show, if the formula stayed the same season after season it would become monotonous and deathly boring. Can't wait to see what happens next!!
ReplyDeleteI want to know the things Soulless!Sam got up to! :D I fear they'll be very, very bad.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Dean fan, just like I'm a Sam fan. The troubles of one are the troubles of them both. I can't wait to see what Sera and Kripke have come up with to tie up the season.
(PS: I miss Adam and I hope that someone somewhere mentions the fact he's currently still being tortured before the season ends. Poor Adam, sacrificed for a fight that wasn't even his to begin with.)
I was so excited to hear Kripke was writing the finale. Every tidbit he spills just makes me more excited!
ReplyDeleteThat's what I love about the show, it's ever-changing, but still maintains the thread of family. These boys have gone from hunters to the main players in the apocalypse and it all makes sense within the storyline that's been created.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait! Actually, I feel like so much of Sam's story post re-souling has been revving us up for when the wall falls down. I want hysterics, snot-filled weeping Sammy face and a pure, single human tear from Dean when he realizes what has happened. :) I just hope they don't go the catatonic route. Too easy. heh.
ReplyDeleteNot that I want Sam to suffer, but I am so freaking excited to see what'll happen. I was hoping they would show us what would happen after Unforgiven, but Im glad they didn't because there has been a build up since then of what could happen and how emotional it will be
ReplyDeleteThere are many other sites you should read and most of their posts are from people who are NOT interested in any more of Sam-sans-soul. That has been a plot that many have wanted dumped for a long time. If you have been followings any info, besides spoilers, that is very apparent. And yes, if Kripke and Gamble insist on doing plots that fans object to, fans will not continue to watch.
ReplyDeleteI am actually really excited about this, but also very scared for Sam! I've been itching all season to find out what Sam went through while he was in Hell, and every since he got his soul back I've been dying to know what he did the whole time he was soulless before he met up with Dean again.
ReplyDeleteI was watching a video last night of Jim Beaver at Paley, and he said in this episode we are going to see more of Sam than we have ever seen before, so I'm really getting antsy now. I know also Jared said that Sam is going to have to fight the hardest fight he's ever fought, and that's fighting himself. I also know Jared said that Sam is in for a lot self-torture, so I'm wondering if Sam is going to torture himself over the things that happened both in Hell and while soulless? It's all so intriguing and exciting and the cliffhanger!? Ugh! You WOULD, Kripke. I'm gonna feel like a chicken running around with it's head cut off all summer!!!
And also, I agree with tvmonkey. Some fans seriously need to get off their little high horse. It's already been confirmed that ep 20- is Cas-centric, ep 21 is Dean-centric (and doesn't have to do with Sam) and ep 22 is Sam-centric which all makes sense to me. Sam is a main character people. Just as much as Dean. Quit your bitching and your whining. It's gotten so old and so incredibly ridiculous. Please just stop it and grow up. I might be an avid Sam girl, but at least I don't go around stomping my foot, folding my arms and refusing to watch the show just because some eps might be Dean focused and not Sam focused. Lord almighty...
Ohhhh right, I forgot. Many other sites instantly=majority of the fandom. Don't be absurd. It's a plot that's been wanted dumped by the rabid Dean/Jensen girls. That does not automatically=majority of the fandom. You really need to get your facts straight before you go around boasting crap like this. *rolls eyes*
ReplyDeleteOh I totally agree!! I can't wait to see what the finale is truly going to bring us!
ReplyDeleteOh, they've definitely been building up to this moment. I hope they don't damage Sammy too badly, but....yeah, a little suffering wouldn't be amiss :)
ReplyDeleteWe love seeing our favorites suffer :D I'm excited!
ReplyDeleteOMG THIS!!! We haven't seen Sam really cry since No Rest For The Wicked. I want Sam bawling! LOL
ReplyDeleteI hadn't thought of it much, but when he gets his memories back it will be two sets of simultaneous memories (as if one set wouldn't be bad enough). It's going to be SO GOOD!
ReplyDeleteI'm not 'rabidly boasting' anything. And most of the posts regarding the lask of interest in Sam/Wall were from Sam sites. It is a POV that is very large in the SPN community. And you don't have to take anyone's word on anything. You can check it out yourself.
ReplyDeleteWell, they can always use the (litteral...) Deus Ex Machina, since they let good ol' Prophet Chuck go so abrubtly :p
ReplyDeleteI know! I can't even begin to imagine what that's going to be like, those memories clashing together. I know Jared said that it's going to be just as catastrophic as Death warned. I am SO excited and so scared for Sammy!
ReplyDeletei wish that wall would just last and not come down at all,although now with all the spoilers i guess i should be glad if nothing even worse happens to everyone.cliffhangers are never good, i ll already be glad if noone gets possessed/ends up in hell or purgatory, noone dies iknow it sn ot going to happen but i d be happy with the deaths being eve/raphael
ReplyDeleteUh huh, so you're saying Sam fans don't want a Sam storyline? Well, wow. Doesn't that just make perfect sense. You link me to those Sam sites and we'll talk. A few people bitching on the internet still isn't majority of the fandom. I reiterate; get your facts straight. Irregardless, we're getting the story whether you like it or not. You're free to not watch, but do you honestly think running around to a bunch of sites bitching is going to change the story? They started filming the season finale today. Deal with it.
ReplyDeleteI think Season Six will end with Sam in a catatonic state after the wall comes down. Then when Season Seven opens, some time has passed since Sam became catatonic and it's only when the season begins that he wakes out of it. Sam tries to pass it off like he's suddenly alright after getting back his memories. Dean isn't buying it but is willing to go along with the charade and let Sam ride it out if it helps Sam with what's he's going through. When Sam and Dean go on another one of their monster cases, Dean notices Sam experiencing the shakes, saying stuff that don't make sense out of the blue, having an overemotional response to the monster's victims, and experiencing post-traumatic flashbacks the kind Vietnam vets got after the war. It isn't until the end of the episode that Sam has a complete emotional breakdown, brought on by the intense emotions he's been feeling due to his exposure to his Hell/soulless memories. S7 will be focused on Sam's post-traumatic recovery that's been delayed since he was taken out of Hell without a soul. For a while, he will be restrained from doing certain things that trigger the extreme aspects of his behavior.
ReplyDeleteI want to know about Adam too! I saw mentioned in an article (can't remember which one) that not only was Sam going to have to face what he did soulless but he did in Hell too? So...is it possible he tortured Adam? Or maybe the article just got it wrong because it was the only article that said anything like that. I wonder if Adam's soul went to Heaven instead of Hell and it's just Adam's soulless body down there or dead body. I don't know. I really hope Adam is okay and at peace honestly. These boys don't need anything else hurting them. Let their little brother rest in peace.
ReplyDeleteI like this idea a lot, Joe! I hope you're right! I was kinda hoping we'd see inside of Sam's mind since Jim Beaver said we'll be seeing more of Sam then we have ever seen in the finale. I was hoping we'd see Sam locked inside of his own subconscious, battling the memories, trying to keep them from overcoming him. But I would love for Season 7 to show Sam's post soulless/Hell trauma, his suffering, and a real emotional breakdown, kinda like what Dean had in Season 4, but not identical to it. Anyway, love it! I think it'd be great!! =D
ReplyDeleteTrust is good ... after Dean made an emotional cripple (thanks Lisa) I do not know if I there should have confidence.
ReplyDeleteI get the feeling God has left the building, but Kripke hasn't, so...anything is possible.
ReplyDeleteSomebody's going to die (because somebody always dies), but we just have to hope it's not Bobby, Dean, Sam, or Cas (though I wouldn't mind a fallen Cas...I liked him when he became more human last year.)
ReplyDeleteBoth these boys are suffering from PTSD and Sam's going to just get worse when the whole thing hits him. Dean drowns his pain with alcohol, but it's not like he's doing much better than his brother.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that Lisa and Ben will once again reappear before the season is over. I was displeased with the way they left it last time.
ReplyDeleteI do like that we're going to be getting some movement on the "soulless" Sam storyline and see some fallout from the Wall breaking down. It's great that the writers have paid attention to Sam's post-hell story, unlike with Dean where they played it for laughs (Yellow Fever) and other characters "boo hoo'd" him for his trauma (Sam in Sex and Violence) and told him to suck it up and quit whining (Zach in It's a Terrible Life). So, Sam has some great stuff for him, as he's had all season long, so.... what about Dean? I've read Lisa and Ben will be back (presumably to be written off the show once and for all) but it's not like the "domestic" storyline was ever going to go anywhere anyway, since this is a show about hunters ON THE ROAD. So, I'm left to wonder if the show has any intention of giving Dean any kind of relevant role or importance other than being Sam's brother. Any kind of significant storyline *equal* to what Sam has?
ReplyDeleteThis season has been really predictable, dull and very boring. I can't imagine what would make Krimble think that a redux of the crappy Swan Song is going to impress anyone except the fans who want Sam,Sam and more Sam. Dean who?
ReplyDeleteTrust Kripke and Becky Gamble? Not anymore. Giving Sam everything that belonged to Dean seems to be the only thing that Krimble can think of. Again, Dean who?
Dean has his time in 6.21 (perhaps touching on the Lisa thing again, since I guess they're not done with that) Jensen also promised that Dean was going to go after Walt and Roy, who killed them in Dark Side of the Moon, so hopefully he gets some follow-through on that, too.
ReplyDeleteAmazing how Sam has to have what Dean has had, only made much more awesome. I remember the same fans who are crying how poor woobie Sam spent so much time in hell, criticizing Krike for giving Dean the unbelievable 40 year. Yeah, seems it's believable now that it's Sam. Pft.
ReplyDeleteI think the Wall of Sam is one of the most desperate move two showrunners who have run out of ideas can come up with for their favorite character.
It's interesting how different fans see different things. I'm a big Dean fan and I think he's been given a nice storyline overall in the series (though I hope for some better resolution on the Lisa front than we got last time). Whatever happens to Sam happens to Dean, too, and they're finally a cohesive unit again. I like that.
ReplyDeleteBut the Walt and Roy storyline isn't just for Dean, that's a storyline involving both Sam and Dean together.
ReplyDeleteWe see things differently (which is good, because all fans won't get the same thing out of the same piece of material and it opens up the door for discussion). But I wouldn't say that both showrunners favor Sam over Dean. It's always been evident to me that Kripke was a Dean(boy) and Sera was a Sam(girl). They balance each other out very well.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but Dean's the one that promised he'd come after them. At any rate, whatever happens to one affects the other, so I've never seen their issues as being solely about one brother or the other.
ReplyDeleteDean has always been an emotional cripple - it's part of his charm.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason some Sam girls may have stated they don't want the wall to come down is because they're scared what it'll do to Sam, how it will affect him?! You on the other hand just came across as a whiny Dean/Jensen fan bitter because the episode/storyline wasn't going to be all about Dean.
ReplyDeleteWow, aren't you bitter Dean/Jensen fan? Get over yourself.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the problem people have with 'Samcentric' and 'Deancentric' episodes/storylines. The show, when it focuses on Dean, shows Sam's reactions. When the focus is on Sam, we see Dean's reactions.
ReplyDeleteThe show is about both brothers. Always has been, and I assume, always will be.
For me, I barely notice if one brother has more screen time, dialogue, or storyline. My focus is on the show as a whole. And, call me a masochist but I can't wait for the cliffhanger finish to the season.
You know Kyelinn....I'm really tired of hearing you. You come across as such a sarcastic, mean person. Dean girls don't need to grow up, you do. You are so defensive and rude. I've seen your posts on another site and you are nothing but negative and if it's not about "your Sam" then it's all bad. I just want you to remember all this when next season we get Dean stories and Sam is left out. So don't call me a bitch, when every single one of your posts come back as you being the biggest!! And isn't it funny that I knew this was you...tells you something, right?
ReplyDeleteOh please. You really think that's going to hurt me? You really think I get a rat's ass about what you're saying to me? Also, I don't go around calling people a "bitch" dear, so you're the one stooping to that level? You're the one assuming and you're also the one convinced that Dean is going to get his stories. We know NOTHING. And what other sites have you seen me at as Kyelinn? Because the only place I'm Kyelinn at is here. I only belong to one other site and not under this name.
ReplyDeletei believe this is evident as well. I'm looking forward to the ending, and dreading it. There's nothing more both Sera AND Kripke like than raking us over the coals:)
ReplyDeleteI agree. The show is about family. It's about Dean and Sam, two brothers taking on the world and being willing to die for one another. Whatever happens to one affects the other, so whatever torment we're in for either character will be torment for both (and I can't wait for the finale!)
ReplyDeleteNot on this scale. I think Lisa has done many things broken.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? You are the one that said that Dean fans need to stop bitching (sorry that to me means you are calling us bitches) and I have seen you on SN.tv with the same name and you are talking just like this one, so you can deny all you want, guess I could never prove it, but I know what I read and this sure sounds like the Kyelinn from that site. Either way, you are very ignorant in your posts and this is the first time I have EVER replied to you. I guess today is the day I felt like going off. So why don't YOU take a chill pill and enjoy your Sammy finale....again!!
ReplyDeleteI agree Kimberly...I have liked Dean's story. I have liked Sam's. I really don't like to play favorites, but I can get defensive of either one when somebody is attacking them. I am really looking foward to what Kripke will bring us this time. I just hope he doesn't kill Lisa and Ben. I'm hoping Cas will wipe their memories of the last year or so.
ReplyDeleteI'm not on that site anymore. I left. It's a Dean-centric site. A lot of Sam fans left just because of that. Not me. We're not interested if we can't defend our favorite character without getting yelled at. No, actually, I'm not ignorant. I'm honest. And that last sentence? Right there? Enjoy my Sammy finale....again!!! That's bitterness, dear. You deny that all you want. And I think maybe you might need to go back to school and learn the difference between "bitching" about something and actually being a "bitch." So no, I was not calling you bitches. If you'd like, I will.
ReplyDelete6.21 is Dean centric, 6.22 is Sam centric. What's the problem???!!
ReplyDeleteOkay I don’t get it. We get a Dean centric episode for HALF of the finale (since it’s a two part finale 6.21 is considered part of the finale), and a Sam centric episode for the second half. You would think that would please BOTH Sam and Dean fans, you get the best of both worlds.
I’m sorry but I don’t think either Dean fans or Sam fans have a right to complain that one episode centers more around one brother when the next episode focuses on the other one. It kind of ties it up. Besides let’s not assume that because an episode centers on one brother that that means the other one is barely in it or unimportant.
you are unbelievable!! A Dean centric site? If you don't think everything is about Sam there then you are treated just like you are treating me now. I will enjoy the finale, cause I love the SHOW! Both characters! I am not bitter, and I do not need to go back to school, what I need to do is not respond to people like you. And if you are just being honest then your honesty comes across as being ignorant. You can just taste the venom in your words. I usually don't respond like this, but you just caught me on a bad day. Oh...and why aren't you on the site anymore? Maybe because there are alot more people that feel the way I do right now about how you respond to people.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree at all, but you're entitled to your opinion. :)
ReplyDeleteI totally agree.
ReplyDeleteThen perhaps you never should've responded to me in the first place. Let me see if I can put this in terms you understand: I left the site because Sam fans were constantly getting reported for things they didn't need to be. Sam fans were always getting yelled at, put on moderated posting, etc...and I'm not the only one who just recently left either. She feels the exact same way I do. It has nothing to do with how I talked to anybody because I barely SPOKE to anybody except for when I defended Sam for nasty stuff that was being said about him. But if you opened up your eyes, you'd actually see that I defended Dean in some threads too. Shock horror. I too love both characters, but Sam is my favorite. If you have a problem with that, then that's your fault. Not mine. And hey, you're the one who jumped down my throat first. I'm just defending myself.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. The show is about both of them and what affects one most certainly affects the other.
ReplyDeleteSee this is exectly what I'm talking about. You talk down to people and that's why you were edited from the site or whatever. If you hadn't responded the way you did with your post to Caylee, I probably wouldn't have responded to you, but again you came across very rightous by telling everybody else not to feel the way they feel. To tell people to grow up, well you are inviting an argument, So I would say you started this, not me. And I can completely agree with you on one thing...I should never respond to you. So with that said, I'm done. I will go on and enjoy the show and not waste my time with you..
ReplyDeleteWord. They've done their jobs amazingly so far, absolutely no reason to lose faith.
ReplyDeleteNow you're being an idiot. I wasn't edited from the site. I ASKED to be deregistered. I deregistered all on my own. Go ask Irishgirl or Raven about it. And like I said, I'm sick of Dean fans actually ruining something that could be a decent discussion about Sam for once. And good, because it spares me having to hear your mindless rabble.
ReplyDeleteThere will always be Dean-Girl/Sam-Girl hair pulling, lol.
ReplyDeleteIn general I don't have a problem with having Sam-centric and Dean-centric episodes, even with the finale. The problem (for me) is that while Sam's storyline is pretty overt -- he starts out soulless then gets his soul back but has to deal with what he did while soulless and also has to deal with his memories and the precarious nature of his wall, and now will have to deal with the wall as it tumbles down and the aftermath of that.
ReplyDeleteBut for Dean we had a very brief storyline involving Lisa and Ben, but as soon as he went back on the road with Sam, that storyline pretty much dried up while Dean focused more of his attention on what was wrong with Sam, dealing with soulless Sam, trying to get Sam's soul back, and now will have to deal with Sam's wall coming down. Now we may get to see Lisa and Ben for one episode (but really that storyline was doomed from the beginning and I imagine this will be the end of it), Dean doesn't really have his own story-arc like Sam does, especially when it's being hinted that the *soul* storyline is connected to purgatory, the Mother, and the Heavenly war.
So "Dean-centric" this season means Dean worrying about Sam. Not that I mind it when Dean worries about Sam, but that shouldn't be his ONLY relevance to the overall storyline and that's basically been his storyline for the majority of the season. So, that's my own frustration with hearing specifics about Sam's storyline in the finale (his wall coming down) and nothing specific about Dean's role being connected to purgatory, the Mother, or the Heavenly War. Nothing. But I understand not everyone agrees with my frustration, and that's cool.
You still talking? I thought you were leaving me alone?
ReplyDeleteTwo things are VERY clear at this point in time. We are going to get Kripke'd and Gamble'd once more before our season 7 starts. AND YES I truly believe 1000% we WILL have a season 7. I mean who in the CW will REALLY wanna deal with us if it turns into a no-go?
ReplyDeleteHahah the same hermitme at TWOP i'm sure harping on and moaning about poor old Dean, haven't you stopped watching yet surely it's hard to see the screen over the red haze of fury that befalls you. I don't get your opinion at all, it's difficult to comprehend especially when for about half of the season, even more Sam fans were left without their character at all while we saw mammoth amounts of Dean. I found the first half of the season very hard but i acknowledge what they did there and what Jared did playing such a different character of the Sam we loved.
ReplyDeleteDean has had a whole lot of time this season and a lot of different versions too, family man, brother, avenger, the only person against the Campbells, i don't get what more you want for him? And if they eventually kill Lisa then you could say they were giving Dean Sam's storyline aka losing the woman he loved, so it could be argued many ways.
I for one am really excited to see the end of the season and suggest if you really are that upset you just stop watching instead of coming here raining on everyones parade.
Me too :)
ReplyDeleteThe backlash over the the pre-emption was surely enough to have cw shaking in their collective shoes. They won't like us when we're REALLY p****d off.
But that won't happen. S7 is a done deal. (and hopefully 8, 9, & 10)
I think we should all just relax (as much as SPN allows us to) and prepare for our minds to truly be blown by the end of S6 and the new season ahead.
Absolutely well said! Agreed!
ReplyDeleteNot me. I want Adam to stay out of the picture. For me, the less we know about him the better.
ReplyDeleteI am SO excited for this too. Wheeeee
ReplyDeleteI've seen the vast majority of people really excited for the finale, i've seen no negativity except your post and someone below so i don't get 'these sites' you list, sound like a bitter Dean fan who doesn't want Sam to have an episode, when Sam gets half the finale, Dean gets half, you can't have fairer than that. Very ridiculous comment.
ReplyDeleteA finale which is half Sam, half Dean and there are no Sam fans bitching but a couple of bad representatives of Dean's here getting their a typical moan on, isn't that just typical and sad. Couldn't be fairer than half a finale each and they're still here moaning, grow up!
ReplyDeleteI would just feel better to know that his soul is in Heaven with his mom and he can rest in peace and never another mention of him. It kinda sucks just leaving it hanging in the air there. Keeping him trapped in Hell forever with Michael and Lucifer? That would just suck for the kid. >.<
ReplyDeleteThank you for your posts, Charli. This was all my point exactly. There are a few people now coming in here and raining on the excited fans' parades and I was just personally attacked by one out of nowhere for voicing how I felt. So yes. Thank you for your posts. Just wanted to say that. =)
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be so exciting and for once fair. I always felt in the past that the show swayed towards Dean a lot, then some were Sam centric but basically i didn't feel since seasons 1 and 2 they got a good balance between the boys, now the finale is going to be awesome because we have Dean first half, and Sam second half and the boys as a united front. I couldn't be more excited. And I can't wait to see what Jared does with wall down Sam, and how crazed he's left at the end of it. Woohoo. Love this show and Gamble and Kripke. Bring it!
ReplyDeleteThank YOU for being sane. You don't see the Sam girls moaning that Dean gets the first half, I appreciate the brothers as a unit and as individuals without going to a Dean synopsis and moaning on about how it should have been given to Sam. It's just immature and pathetic if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteI love when the bothers are together, as the united front, because they're always stronger together than apart. Yes, they're each others' weakness, but they're also each others' strengths.
ReplyDeleteYou are not being fair either. You cannot assume that all fans who don't like the plotline are "rabid Dean/Jensen" as you put it. That does a disservice to people who simply don't like the plot. Just like there are fans who did not like the angels or fans who did not like the fairy segue (count me as one), some people do not like RoboSam and would rather the plotline desist. Still others (and I lean this way too) do not want the torrent of angst that will happen once the wall comes down. That isn't really a Dean or Sam thing. It's an anti-angst thing. I wouldn't want to see Dean with a crashing wall in his head either. By dismissing people as being rabid on either side, we stifle the discussion and that's bad for all of us.
ReplyDeleteNot me. I am happy to be tears-free since we've had far too much angsty in the last 2 seasons for my taste.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you 100% I've always leaned more toward Sam. He IS my favorite character in the show. He always has been, but that doesn't mean for a second that I hate Dean or the fact that Dean is getting attention. I mean sure in Seasons 3, 4, and 5 it frustrated me because of lack of Sam insight and sometimes got me a bit upset, but I never went on a rampage attacking Dean over it or attacking Jensen or attacking Dean fans either. I'm excited to see the brothers uniting and working to fight together side by side on this. I'm excited to see that we're really going to be getting inside of Sam's head, literally and get us a really good Sam-centric episode that really shows and expresses a lot, you know? So when I see people coming in here and bitching and trying to ruin a lot of the fans' excitement that's going on in here, it just really bothers me and it happens so frequently, I get sick of it.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to it!!! I've been watching since the beginning. Whatever is done, will be awesome!!!! Gamble has come in behind Kripke and done a wonderful job! Kudos to all!!!!
ReplyDeleteI've kind of seen that too, just in some of the episodes that they have written in the past. But we know that in the two-part finale, Sera will write the Dean-centric one, and Kripke will write the Sam-centric one.
ReplyDeleteBut I never find that the show or the showrunners evidently favour one character every single time. I mean, we need to have Sam or Dean centric episodes here and there! I don't know.
I guess the cray-crays see things differently.
It's hard to determine what a majority of fans believe since we are all so different and we watch Supernatural for different reasons. If people are that upset, they should by all means not watch. Here at SpoilerTV, the reaction to the season finale news has been overwhelmingly positive. Most people support Kripke and Gamble and what they decide to do whether or not they know where they are heading. My question though is this: If the cliffhanger were not about the mythology or about Sam, what would it be about? The whole season has been working up to these 2 points.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with this post. :D
ReplyDeleteI never once assumed that all fans who don't like the plotline are, but a majority of them are because it's been posted loudly enough all over the internet, not just here. Funny, because I sure do see quite a few "rabid" Dean fans coming in here and getting angry over Sam's storyline, claiming they're giving the same thing to Sam that they did Dean which simply is not true. So how is that not me being fair? I have nothing against Dean or Dean fans. My problem lies with the ones who come and try to rain on the Sam fan's parades by posting comments such as that. But fine, whatever. I surrender.
ReplyDeleteI agree I hope he is peaceful in heaven. I feel for him too. I jsut don't want him taking up screentime better used on Bobby or the brothers. :-)
ReplyDeleteThe continuance of the arcs and the "sequel" nature of the storyline has worked very well!
ReplyDeleteI would think that that would be an easy way out, though.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that I would be satisfied if that's the conclusion to this storyline...
Fair enough, you make a rational point and I didn't mean to group all fans together like that lord knows I get annoyed if it's done vice versa and I do understand that certain stroylines aren't for everyone, i'm not a fan of the angel storyline. But some of the comments on here are incredibly harsh and unexplained and just flat out 'I hate this show, they have ruined it' anti Sam crap. It gets my back up, just as it should if people are villifying Dean.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Dean's alcoholism will ever be addressed?
ReplyDeleteSurrender nothing dude. You are arguing your point validly as all should. I'm sick of seeing Sam fans run out of places such as TWOP for daring to voice an opinion. So much negativity everywhere. I love Sam but I enjoy Dean too, i think the horrible thing is when you dislike a lead so much that comments become hateful and vile, I couldn't watch a show if I hated on a joint lead.
ReplyDeleteyou are so full of bullshit you must be drowning in it!
ReplyDeleteYou clearly don't like the show since I've seen you make the same complaint on just about every website all season, so do us and most of all your self a favour and just don't watch. TV is about entertainment and escapism when a show stops being entertaining and enjoyable it's time to switch channels not bitch and whine constantly. If you think going around multiple sites to post the same crap over and over again is going to do anything other than make you appear as pathetic then guess again.
Please just grow up and take your Jared/Sam hate to TWOP and keep it there.
Agreed! Excited for both episodes.
ReplyDeleteI would like to propose to you.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that that is something that is actually going to happen though. I mean, Jensen said that in what, October?
ReplyDeleteMe too and I'm sick of being shouted down for actually disagreeing. I love the show, I love both characters, I am excited to see what makes both tick, why is this such a shocker for some people.
ReplyDeleteTrue, it's just annoying because it's only like 1 or 2 posters, who obviously don't represent the majority of anything, and then everyone feels the need to comment and defend the show for the crazy (including myself...) and suddenly it seems like a huge problem.
ReplyDeleteI can only assume he wronged her or her family in a past life or something for the level of fury she rains down upon him all the time. Poor guy.
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering that too, at the beginning of the season I assumed that was going to be an issue as the season went on because it was highlighted so much. Maybe it's something they can save address in season 7, I mean the constant mentions of it have to be for something right?
ReplyDeleteI see your point (thank you for being mature about it), but even though I am a giant Dean fan, I enjoy his place in the mythology this season because, as Death pointed out, he is the "detective", we saw everything (for the first half of the season) through his POV.
ReplyDeleteYes...I think they most highlighted it with his after hell post memory drinking but he mentioned to Sam his coping mechanism was drinking so its definitely an outlet for Dean that could develop into a valid issue. I think if i spent my life witnessing the death and destruction the winchesters do i'd be a drunk too.
ReplyDeletelol! One of the contrasts with the brothers that's interesting to watch is around hope for the future. Sam usually has hope (prior to letting Lucifer out) and can't imagine growing old as a hunter ("The Curious Case ..." episode), whereas Dean thinks he doesn't deserves a better life and part of him wants to die young (season 3). Sam eats health food (taking care of his body for the future) whereas Dean eats fatty foods and tries to drown his liver. The day we see Dean admit that he can see a good future for himself will be the day we see him turning down the glass of whiskey.
ReplyDeletethen you might want to stay clear of episode 21 the Dean centric angst fest, we've been told there will be tears.
ReplyDeleteWe've been told that episode 20 is supposed to be very emotional. In fact, I think Ben Edlund said that on the panel. Then we were told the conclusion with Lisa and Ben is an emotional one as well.
ReplyDeleteWhat is up here on this side? I never saw fights here about the brothers. Or I didn`t read them before? But so far, I thought this is a side for the Winchesters as a unit and as long as they are in it together, on one side, I am in for more focus on Dean and then more focus on Sams issues. So we have a two-parter this season, one involves more Dean, the other involves more Sam. How can someone say that she/he cares for both brothers and then say, they don`t watch the second part of the finale, because we get some focus on Sam`s wall? Sam is Deans brother and Dean cares for his brother and is certainly worried. So some of those fans who say, it is boring, or what else they have in mind, they should think of Dean. What it will affect Dean, when this happens? Maybe Dean is in danger and this causes Sam to break this wall down (or the enemy tries it) and in order to save his brother Sam can bring up some informations and when the wall is breaking down, he is locked in his two different memories.
ReplyDeleteI think this season is somehow more balanced between the main characters. Loving Sam means for me loving Dean, yes, Sam loves his bro! We got 11 episodes soulless Sam and I can only say, Jared did a magnificent job, although I missed Sam tremendous and was disturbed that I didn`t get any insight in Sam`s hell experience and in Sam as a person ( there is something missing for a long time now). But even in the time where I longed for more Sam insight (in season 3, 4 and 5) Jared delivered! Perfectly !And I knew where Sam was in his heart and in his head.
Its fascinating to think about what it means to act and make decisions with a soul or without a soul. It could have been better explained I think, because its hard to see your beloved character doing things like he did without the explanation or the reason behind this weird behavior. Its further intriguing to see Dean, the other main character and parental protective brother reacting to this kind of behavior.
I have two feelings regarding Sam`s issues with the wall collapsing. I am dreading it, really dreading, because it may change Sam forever and into what? Though the other side is I am very very curious, what happened to him, finally, finally (in the finale, ha) to find out. I hanging on the brotherly talks since the first time Dean asked him about and interpreted the things Sam answered (while soulless and I didn`t know) so I thought, huh, why is he so strange and reacting so? First I was curious, but at some point I wanted to know and had a very hard time (with the kind of storytelling). But one light in the end of the tunnel might be Dean. When Dean is standing up to his brother regardless heaven, hell, Bobby, Castiel, Lisa, Ben, when Dean is with his brother in this and they are on the same side, my worries is getting smaller...till its dust in the wind (I hope)
I wonder if its the Dean/Jensen fans who didn't like the Lisa/Ben arc who are the ones claiming Dean hasn't has a storyline of his own this season?
ReplyDeleteIt's why I love this site so much, because normally we never get stupid Sam-girl, Dean-girl cr*p. I think its just the hiatus.
ReplyDeletehaters usually know better than to come on this site but seems some of them have gotten lost. I too love this site because it isn't just a constant Dean V Sam battle between fans and usually I wouldn't engage in such childish arguments but I've had enough of the whining and bitchiness from a small group of so called fans this season, all it does is give the entire fandom a bad name. Jumping from site to site leaving the same stupid comment is just pathetic, we get it you hate the show/Sam/Jared/Dean/Jensen/Kripke/Gamble......blah blah blah
ReplyDeleteTheres having a valid opinion and then there's just being a bitch for the sake of being a bitch
I wouldn't mind seeing some actual detective work take place.
ReplyDeleteI'm betting the wall will go down cause they'll need information that will help fight the Mother thad Sam-Thing received from Samuel...and since Samuel is dead, SAm-Thing is the only one having those informations
ReplyDeleteI don't remember when he said it...seems like it was later than that when he brought it up, though (the con before last?)
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting theory! Though it felt like Grandpa acquired that information separate from Sam (at least, to me it didn't appear as if he were telling it as if Sam already knew?)
ReplyDeleteWe've been told that the brothers will be a cohesive unit going forward, like old times. One possible theory is that Sam and Dean go to Purgatory to find Crowley and get information about Eve, against Cas' warnings about what it could do to the Great Wall of Sam. As a result, the wall will fall and Sam will be crippled by the memories. Dean will go into major big brother mode to take care of Sam, along with their surrogate dad Bobby, and hopefully help to bring him out of it.
ReplyDeleteThe news we're hearing about the realignment of relationships on the show could be the estrangement of Cas from Sam and Dean. After Cas reflects on his situation in Heaven and how his alliance with the Winchesters has led up to where he is, he may take the visit to Purgatory as a major betrayal by them. Maybe Cas will help to heal Sam, but it may cost Sam and Dean his friendship. Cas may feel constantly taken advantage of by Dean, feeling that Dean only calls on him when he needs something.
We'll probably be left thinking Sam has gone insane and committed to an asylum at the end of the season. I personally hope the show doesn't leave us with a cliffhanger about Sam for the third season in a row.
Not saying it was a 'magic way' like ''you can kill the Mother by doing that''...but I don't know...maybe something Samuel talked with Sam last year, a something that can be really usefull. Like the vampire cure that Samuel shared with Sam-thing and it became useful later when Dean became one. Maybe there's another information like that didn't have any use at all at first but now yeah
ReplyDeleteI do feel like the relationship Cas has with the Winchesters will be changing. He seems to have shifted his focus from Dean (with whom he has a "special bond" according to him) towards Sam (who he feels for in the pain and suffering he is apt to experience). Dean's gone directly against him in getting Sam's soul back and when the choice comes down between Cas and Dean, Sam's on Dean's side. I don't think Cas will see the Winchesters as his BFFs after this season.
ReplyDeleteVery true. And Grandpa did share a TON of useful information with Sam, even if he can't remember it now. Might be worth tapping the memory if it means saving the world (again).
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Cas has been quite secretive this year. The rift could be a result of Dean and Sam finding out about the "regrettable things" Cas has done.
ReplyDeleteVery succinct and true!
ReplyDeleteThey could end the season with Sam insane and it could be resolved in season 7.
ReplyDeleteWell, I figure one or both of the boys will be in peril as we enter the summer hiatus, since cliff-hangers are all the more intriguing when personal safety is at stake.
ReplyDelete^^; especially with all the lines ''Me and my family know so much more than you'll ever know''....and Samuel, Gwen, Mark and Christian are all dead without sharing much....it would be sad to not have any information at all we can use frm them. I'm sure there's informations in Sam's head that they can use
ReplyDeleteThe only problem is that it's a bit risky since Sam could become ''Jello'' (like Sam said in the mid-season) before he had time to share the memories/flashback he's having...but since it's Sam we're talking about and we're talking about saving a LOT of people (and since Sam know the wall will break sooner or later anyway), I'm sure Sam will be more than willing to take the risk
I think it was Chicago, non?
ReplyDelete(I remember that it was during a J2 breakfast and they were in front of a giant window....)
I KNOW RIGHT? :)
ReplyDeleteGood point- what ever happened to that?
ReplyDeleteI hate when fans of one guy starts attacking the other character. It doesn't make sense to me. Never has. I like both characters and actors. They bring different things to the table and both are great. We wouldn't have this show without both guys, so what is the point in attacking either character or actor.
ReplyDeleteEpisode 20 is going to be the Cas-centric episode. That is the one Ben Edlund is directing.
ReplyDeleteYes I know. ^^ Ben Edlund also said it was going to be a very emotional episode. Than the one following which is the Dean-centric episode and will give us a Lisa and Ben conclusion, Jensen said it's an emotional conclusion. =)
ReplyDeleteIt's never made any sense to me either, Judy. Not at all. I too like both characters and both actors. And I agree with everything you're saying. Without either of the brothers, Supernatural would not be Supernatural. There is no point. People just get so angry and so bitter that they stoop to that level and it's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that ep 20, 21, and 22 will all be super emotional. Which I am not for but hopefully will not affect my viewing pleasure for any of them. :-) Well, if Lisa and Ben die, I won't be happy. No killing kids, Sera.
ReplyDeleteTWOP isn't SpoilerTV. We try very hard to avoid brother wars here.
ReplyDeleteThis is SpoilerTV, not whatever site you are talking about. We respect each other's opinions here and we don't call names. Furthermore, we try very hard to avoid brother wars. I appreciate that you are new here, but please do not bring problems from another site here. Many of us come to SpoilerTV to avoid that kind of thing. Instead, why don't you tell us what you are looking forward to for the rest of the season?
ReplyDeleteI'll be honest and admit I really wasn't happy when these producers went the overly predictable route of not only copping Dean's Hell story line, but then even more predictably making it so OTT worse than Dean's experience. Sometimes I wonder if Kripke and Gamble are the ones who actually purposely foster D v S with this kind of compare/contrast story-telling.
ReplyDeleteSo I guess this whole bazillion-gazillion years in Hell/wall thing will only ever mean anything to me if they use it to, at the same time, address the fact that Dean's Hell was never given the attention and closure it deserved. Talk about a bonding experience between the brothers. And, hey, as far as we've been told, Dean never got a wall, he's walking around forced to recall every single awful thing that was done to him and that he did, thus the copious binge drinking since he returned. There never was any concern about Dean's aftermath by anyone, which has always been a wasted opportunity.
And giving Dean a silly little domestic snippet - not even a legitimate story line - that was 90% over by the end of the teaser of the first episode isn't exactly equitable story-telling. It shouldn't be so hard to write fairly for only two leads. Yet, Dean's snippet has been completely sidelined, and no one seems to care about it anyway. Then again, if the producers don't care, how can the audience? Where are all the in-depth Dean domestic story line articles? My point exactly.
However, back to Sam's bazillion-gazillion years of, whatever. If the producers aren't going to give the finger to their own established canon (which I fully expect them to do), then one of two things should logically happen. Since Sam's soul has been in Hell for a bazillion-gazillion years, then he's a demon the second the wall falls, cut and dried. Humanity burned off at least a bazillion years ago - thus, he's the new Big Bad, and Dean has to kill him by series end. That's canon from season three (and also harkens back to John's save/kill him command).
It they're not going there, then Sam's mind is blown and he spends the rest of the series in Depends and drooling into a cup. Hey, that's what Death and Tessa and Cas and Balthazar and Meg and Crowley all said would happen. Cut and dried. Not going to do that either? Then that means it isn't as bad as everyone claimed, something else happened, which frankly would be a lot more interesting because at least it wouldn't be so predictably compare/contrast rehash. But if everyone lied to Dean about the consequences of getting back the soul, the real question is why, especially when Cas has been such a dick about it. But I'm not counting on any of that being taken into consideration either.
Frankly the amazing job Eric Kripke did in creating this show, with everyone from Kim Manners to Bob Singer and Sera Gamble building on his great ideas, and now Ben Edlund in the mix this has been an amazing series. So many new horizons and growth for both characters. Exploring and expanding is quintessential to story telling. I have only seen a few negative comments and it boils down to tantrums and tiaras. We are part of the show since we are the consumer, but we don't make the brand, we simply endorse it. Supernatural is easily the best show on television for keeping its promises. It seems a few random detractors want to speak for the whole of the supernatural family. As Dean might say - Driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cakehole!
ReplyDeleteCan we all please remember that this is SpoilerTV and not TWOP, supernatural.tv, or any other site? We play by different rules here. I am saddened that this awesome post has turned into a brother war. Thank you Kimberly for posting it. Let's get back to discussing the plot and leave the baiting to other sites. There are plenty of other ones to choose from.
ReplyDeleteYes I am new here, only because I read the article and some of the comments and was very offended by Keylinn's comment about Dean fans. So it's ok for her to post like that, but we aren't allowed to respond to it? And I do respect peoples opinions, but lines can be crossed from being honest and just being down right rude. I saw nothing before her post that warrented that kind of response from her. So this site seems to be responding like the other place. Give it time and people here will be tired of her rants too. But I'll tell you what I'm looking forward to for the rest of the season....finding out what the MOA's agenda is, what's going on with purgatory and the war in Haevan, so basically just waiting to see how everything ties together. I am very excited for everything this show brings.
ReplyDeleteI personally like Lisa and Ben, but....I don't think it's the right time for them. I think that the people who are unhappy with the lack of Dean story line are the ones that fill he's been left out on alot of his own story, like him coming back from Hell and having no real follow up for it or him being Michael's vessel. I honestly was glad he said no, but I can understand other's feelings that he was cheated that chance. So I don't think it was just Lisa and Ben story line, it's just a combination of things. But hey, I can live with whatever the writes bring, cause I just know Jensen and Jared will rock it. :)
ReplyDeleteHi brandy,
ReplyDeleteIf you see an offensive post, don't reply, just report it via the small flag
link under the comment in question
That's my theory too. We've heard far too much about "regrettable things" and that Cas must win the war in heaven for them to be random comments. My guess is that we are about to have a major showdown between Cas and the Winchesters.
ReplyDeleteThank you, I will remember that. :)
ReplyDeleteHow will the show deal with Sam's wall coming down? Let's look to canon for the answer.
ReplyDeleteSam will reveal brief snippets of what he experienced while standing beside the Impala, shedding a few tears, have a few seconds of nightmares, begin to drink like a fish, and have the man who he feels is like a second father to him tell him, "Boo hoo princess, suck it up."
That is the way that the show deals with all hell memories, isn't it?
I'm most excited about the Mother line too. I find it very intriguing and mysterious. I still don't even know what purgatory really is so I can't wait to get more details.
ReplyDeleteI would like to point out that it takes centuries upon centuries for Hell to burn away your humanity. Sam was down there for 180 years, give or take. Not a bazillion-gazillion or however much you said. So no, he wouldn't be a demon.
ReplyDeleteI really want to see Purgatory! I kept hoping that would be a staging area where some dead characters could make a reappearance.
ReplyDeleteMaybe....they all run together for me :D
ReplyDeleteWhat on earth... what is wrong with some of you people?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure which point you're referring to?
ReplyDeleteYes, Dean's had to live with his 40 years of Hell torment (10 of which he was doing the torturing) within the general population and he's dealt with it like he's done most things in his life--by stuffing it down deep inside and drinking enough to dull the pain. Sam has been down in the cage with only Lucifer and Michael (and Adam) for 150-180 years. Lucifer and Michael has been using their vessels as playthings and torturing them beyond comprehension. So, yes, I think Sam's Hell experience will be much different than Dean's. The question that the article raised is how the writers may handle the aftermath by giving it the weight it deserves while not leaving Sam beyond repair.
ReplyDeleteI would not say no to brotherly Winchester crying! But Sam and Dean have shown that they deal with their life experience much differently. Dean is more a man of action, who wants to take things head-on and not talk about the implications of how it makes him feel. Sam likes to talk it out and understand how it will affect the larger picture. That's why it was a sure sign that Sam was not Sam early in the season, because he didn't want to talk about it.
ReplyDeleteI just hope that instead of having the Sam-show all the time will finally make a change and have something more drastic for Dean. The fact that there always has to be focus on Sam and that there is ALWAYS something wrong with him makes the show quite a bit boring as of late. Though I'll keep on watching because it is fun.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I seriously can't get over how so many people are coming here and ruining this awesome article about Sam and what might happen to him by whining and complaining about Dean, or attacking Sam's character for it or even insulting Sera Gamble as I'm pretty sure I saw somebody call her Becky Gamble. It's awful that Sam fans can't even enjoy something for Sam at all without people from TWOP or Dean Haven or wherever you're coming from, coming here to ruin it by turning it into a brother war or to loudly and sarcastically post their complaints in regards to Dean instead of actually focusing on the topic at hand. It's ridiculous and insulting to Kimberly who obviously put a lot of thought and care into writing her article and having it posted. I can't even wrap my heads around some of the minds of people around here. If you want to bitch about how terrible Dean has it, then go back to the Haven or TWOP and do it. My god.
ReplyDeleteWell, the show has always been about the brothers and, at the heart of it, Dean's entire life's mission has been to save Sammy, yet he continually fails at it (doesn't stop him from trying). They'd die for one another and they have, multiple times. I quite enjoy the strength of their relationship.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that both brothers deal with their issues in different ways. So I could deal with a few minutes at the end of a couple of episodes seeing Sam deal with his memories in his "Sam" way, whatever that is. I don't want to spend episode after episode after episode watching him deal.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I am glad that the wall is coming down. That way we can get the whole "Sam in hell" as well as the RoboSam storylines over and done with. There were way more fascinating things on the table that were barely touched this season because it was all devoted to the latest "what's wrong with Sam this time" saga. Just how did Crowley get Sam out of the cage and Samuel out of heaven when Azazel said that deals needed to be made to resurrect the dead? How could a crossroads demons get access to the cage when Azazel, Lilith and the archangels could not? Why did Crowley want Purgatory? What's going on with the heavenly civil war? What is the Mother wanting to accomplish; what is her endgame? There was so much potential to this season and instead of seeing those storylines through, we are going to get maybe 5 or 6 episodes out of 22 that deal with all of that because the rest were spent on Sam and his soul/wall/regret/whatever.
Personally, I do NOT want to spend one more season figuring out how to fix Sam this time. It was old a season or two ago already. Can't we please just move on now?
ho god no pleeees.... Don't start this whole good guy bad guy back to good guy, nope just kidding he still a bad guy Crap ! Like we watched be so overplayed on Heros , and Small Ville, and Superman And every other Sci-Fi / Fantasy / Thriller / mystery tv show for that mater So I say let it not be sam let it be som big fake out by death . And dean wil half to wander hell and earth to find his brother's lost soul All the while death is holding it . To try to dean to get him back the power of omega... Now that wold be cool.
ReplyDeleteFor me, I am hoping for a return to the brothers as a unit and so I was heartened by Kripke's latest statement. I want to see both in on the hunt, going after the Mother and her new creations. I want to see them use their intelligence and figure out how to stop these new creatures. I want to see something more than Dean having to fix Sam. It has been 6 seasons with the same basic premise of "Something is wrong with Sam and Dean has to back him up in some way".
ReplyDeleteSo let the wall come down, let Dean fix Sam once again, and let's move onto the hunt. No more hell, no more heaven, no more angel condoms. Just figure out who the new Big Bad is going to be, what their endgame is, throw in a few vampires, wendigos, hell throw in the Loch Ness monster, and let the hunt begin!
I'm confused...so, you're saying souled Sammy is not actually souled? He seems like normal Sammy to me, but anything is possible.
ReplyDeleteI miss old school hunts! Just Dean and Sam in the Impala, going after creatures and making jokes and fighting the good fight.
ReplyDeleteYES!!! A little bit older, a lot wiser (hopefully) but together fighting. Where are all the urban legends Kripke mentioned years ago? Bring it on and leave all this "is Sammy really Sammy" crap behind.
ReplyDeleteYou know, just for the record, I wasn't starting to any "bro wars." I LIKE Dean. I've even stated as much in my posts. I was pointing out that I've seen on other sites the rabid Dean fans being the ones to tear Sam's storyline and character down. Considering there are even more and more posts popping up from said fans, I believe I was right.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree, Dahne. My problem with this plot line has been simply that Hell is supposed to be the worst thing imaginable, right? Dean went to Hell, came back and is a functioning (somewhat) human being. Now Sam's Hell is supposed to be 'worse'? How can you get worse than worse? It's a distinction I'm dying to understand and I hope Kripke can give us some sort of balance. And before anyone starts reiterating Sam's dilemma of the cage with Lucifer etc., I know! I just can't rationalize how Hell (the worst thing imaginable) could be worse because you are stuck with two pissed off angels. Dean was tortured, Sam was supposedly tortured (although where they got weapons or a rack in a cage I'll never know.) And I would assume that as much of a dick as Michael was, he was still working for God. He was still an archangel. Would he actually turn bad and torture a human soul? These are things I want answered before I really buy into the plot line. See? Nothing to do with being a Deangirl or Samgirl. Simple logic. :)
ReplyDeleteFor me, logically we have an even bigger problem. It seems like they are touting Purgatory as being worse than hell. Blood, monster realm, and the stuff of nightmares. How can anything be worse than hell? I need some real clarification about purgatory because we've spent 3 seasons with the fact that the brothers going to hell is the worst thing that could happen to them. If suddenly purgatory is worse, it kind of cheapens the sacrifices already made. Plus, they seem to be making the Mother out as worse than the demons and Lucifer. I know they need to up the stakes. I'm just curious how this will play out without ret-conning what's already cannon. Believe me, I trust in Kripke but we've started this plot line so late in the season that I'm not sure everything will be resolved in a way my head and heart can agree on in only 6 episodes.
ReplyDeleteI would really like to see Dean deal with Roy and Walt. They would be a great target for his pent-up, alcoholic aided aggression. :) It seems like everytime he threatens to kill someone (usually for very god reason) he never gets the opportunity. Either someone or something gets to the target first (outside of the YED and Ruby -- but I'm talking human enemies). I haven't figured out if the writers are trying to keep Dean from being a murderer, but they've never really let him follow thru on any threat to a human.
ReplyDeleteGood point. If, as AlphaVamp hinted, monsters go to purgatory, there would be an awful lot of bad things in purgatory. Does that make it worse than Hell? Are monsters worse than demons? Is Even worse than Lucifer or Alastair? Can there be a place worse than Hell? Can there even be degrees of 'worse'? All legitimate questions I'm looking forward to getting answers to in the last 6 episodes. I just hope Kripke somewhat addresses his thought process instead of just saying 'that's how it is!'
ReplyDeleteIf anyone can pull this off, it's Kripke. And kudos to the very talented Jared Padalecki who portrays the character Sam perfectly in its many different forms that the writer creates. And just a side note, please get Michael out of the cage. St. Michael is a hero to many Catholics and he deserves a more heroic storyline by the writer than just being locked in a cage with Lucifer!
ReplyDeleteBoth Jensen and Jared have done their characters well over the years. I continue to applaud them.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up an interesting point about killing humans versus killing monsters. I more see it as Dean wants to kill the evil in this world. For now, that's been contained to the supernatural monsters that lurk around them, but humans are more than capable of evil. To have Dean carry the responsibility of taking a purely human life...that's one more pain he'd have to try and drown with an abundance of alcohol :(
ReplyDeleteMan, I didn't even think about the monsters vs. demons aspect. For 5 seasons, we've seen the demons (and sometimes angels) as the biggest threats (Alastair, YED, even Meg) whereas the monsters were one-shot creatures routed by the end of the episode. Now monsters are more focused and powerful. They are taken more seriously as Winchester rivals. That does lead to a conundrum. If monsters are more deadly than demons, does that mean that the Winchesters are going to have to ally with angel and demons to beat them or will it be everyone for themselves like usual?
ReplyDeleteWhat sort of storyline could the writers give Dean that you would consider equal to what Sam has? I am simply curious.
ReplyDeleteYour point is something i hear from fans here and there. But i've never quiet been able to understand because from my perspective, Dean gets all the interesting stuff(at least things i find interesting) while Sam gets all the boring stuff. Not necessary bad, but just plain old boring and superficial with moments here and there far and in-between that i actually consider interesting and character development. And No. I am neither a Sam fan or a Dean fan. I consider my favourite character to be one part Sam, one part Dean. Of course i appreciate them for their individuality because without those differences, i wouldn't love what they are as a unit.
Since we learned about the wall, I've had the feeling (and hope, since it would require a S7) that the wall would finally break for Hellatus... Here are my two favorite ways that I think we could get Sam back after his inevitable collapse:
ReplyDeleteDesperate to find some way to help Sam, Dean discovers that the Amulet is the solution (either as a symbol to help Sam find his way out, or perhaps part of the 'special' power that it has) and we spend an episode (or two) with Dean searching for it... (or perhaps a Cas/Bobby joint mission while Dean stays with Sam)... (afterward having the amulet worn by Sam)
My other idea would be for the wall to break during a major confrontation (maybe Sam breaking it in a last ditch effort to gain crucial info) and having Sam fall to the floor almost senseless... then things go really bad, and the season ends with everyone in mortal peril, and Sam locked in his head... And in the new season, we follow Sam in his head as he fights his way through it to eventually save Dean and the rest...
However it happens, I really hope that this will be the end of the 'Is Sam really Sam, and is he evil' arc, it has been amazing, but I would love to see the brothers be able to focus on something else, and face the next big bad nasty that comes along together and united! It is also time for Sam to have to save Dean, for a change :-)
I agree. SpoilerTV has been my refuge from sites where brother wars seem to be the norm. It's a great place where generally I can feel safe to express an opinion. Arguing is not discussing. It's trying to browbeat someone into either agreeing with you, or backing down.
ReplyDeleteI HATE when things like this happen. It's unpleasant and makes me feel like not coming back.
Kimberly has posted a great and thought provoking article that is about Sam's wall crumbling, and the season finale. I feel like it has been hijacked. Can we start acting like adults and not reinforce that 'rabid' label Supernatural fans seem to be saddled with?
Dude, it goes 6.20-Castiel-centric. 6.21-Dean-centric and 6.22-Sam-centric. What else do you want? The show is exactly what it has been from the very beginning with the same creator and writers at the helm. If you don't like it now, then why do you even watch the show? It's no secret that the show is about two brothers. If you are one of those fans who believe that all Dean's role is always being is to be Sam's brother. I ask you, isn't that what he was also in season 1, the genesis of the show? At least its not pretending to be anything else.
ReplyDeleteOf course, i see Dean on the show differently. I see Sam on the show differently. I see their roles differently. I think Dean has the better cut story wise because he gets the parts not associated with the mythology which in as much as i love the Supernatural team, they suck at mythology. So any character whose sole plot and character is attached to the mythology(read Sam for most seasons and Dean for season 4 & 5) gets the short stick and a lousy and boring(season 5) storyline.
And like someone else said, whatever happens to one brother affects the other. And let me say, that simply fact has been the saving grace for the brother who gets the misfortune of being stuck with the mythology. The other lucky brother is affected which opens room for more interesting interaction and reactions.
As much as I want the amulet back (A LOT!), Kripke doesn't seem apt to bring it back :( It really has become a character in its own right, but I think it's a great symbol of the brotherly bond that got taken away and I miss it greatly.
ReplyDeleteI had thought that the wall was going to break as we went into summer hiatus (that was my initial thought when the whole wall storyline started), but now it seems like Kripke will be breaking it (and Sam;) within the finale, so we will get to see at least some of the effect on Sam immediately. I don't want him to be locked within himself for too long, else we don't have a show, but I also don't want him to get off too easy because the build-up of "danger, danger, this will be bad" has been too daunting to just let it go without aftermath.
I kind of think that the writers are using Sam's return from hell as a way to make up for the horrible way they handled Dean's PTSD back in season 4. I would be pissed if they made the same mistake again with Sam and not focus on it and give it the proper attention it deserves.
ReplyDeleteThe ironic thing is i believe that Dean's PTSD and return from hell was not giving the proper attention it deserved was because the writers were to focused with Dean and his relationship with the angels and arc in the mythology. If they had never decided to make Dean a part of the mythology, they would have had no choice but to focus on Dean's PTSD. They tried to do too much at once and neglected the most important. Me as a fan, i'm more interested in the emotional arcs which is Dean's arc for the majority of times. I love just watching the story of Dean dealing with his father's death, the death of Sam, the knowledge that his father traded his life for his, a soulless-Sam.e.t.c Those tug my heartstrings more than this brothers is a vessel for this douchebag angel. Characters as 3 dimensional as Sam and Dean deserve to be explored on a rich emotional arc. I want to see them deal with stuff i can relate to. I can't relate to being a vessel or being the righteous man(i hate the only one person can do it plots anyways) who can kill a whore of Babylon. But i can relate to Dean's guilt over his dad's death. His feelings of being a failure and disappointment and despair when he lost Sam. I can relate to Sam's shredding of his humanity as the possibility of loosing a loved one to death and being alone like he felt in season 3. I can relate to Sam's need to atone for what he may have done soulless, the guilt even though he knows logically, if he had been himself, he would never have done them. I have been there before.
So as both a Dean and a Sam fan, i love their emotional arcs over the mythological, supernatural related ones.
Well what happens to Sam affects Dean the most and vice versa. It's the way its always been. It's kind of the whole point. I don't get the big deal. When Dean was unstable and hurting from loosing their dad, Sam was the most affected. When Dean made a deal to bring back Sam and had only a year to live, Sam was the most affected by it judging from the crazy spiral into darkness. So when Sam returns soulless, it is Dean who would be affected the most just like he was affected the most by Sam's demon blood trip of season 4. That's the way they role. Entwined fatihs.
ReplyDeleteDean was the one driving the boat for the first half of the season. He chose Sam's fate. Did he want to save Sam's soul or put down the empty shell masquerading as his brother whom he watched fall into a hole? Dean regardless of all the oppositions and arguments from all side, angels and demons alike and with virtually no help from Bobby until the end chose to save Sam's soul from hell while at the same time, getting rid of the monster Sam's empty shell had become which if Death hadn't returned Sam's soul to would have had to be put down by Dean. I liked seeing Dean be right against Castiel, Crowley, Meg, Bobby, Samuel and their mothers and dogs. I believed in Dean and knew as a hero, he was taking the road less traveled. Plus, honestly speaking, i would rather when Dean chooses to be settled down with a wife and kid be it Lisa/Ben or not, i want it to be 100% of his own volition and not because he promised Sam or that he lost Sam and the grief paralyzed him.(which happened for that whole year) Hopefully he chooses a woman who doesn't judge him for something he did way before she ever got to know him.
That`s why I was never hesitant to click at this side. Its a forum where both brothers are admired -and loved! And I feel too like jillyanne mentioned, like this article is been hijacked from the same persons who are coming to different boards, when there is something more about the other brother(!) The relationship is the titanic of the series and those fans are the ice-hill (to speak in the sense of an upcoming episode)
ReplyDeleteIt seems the shitstorm has commenced.
ReplyDeleteAnd by that I mean "SRSLY!?" Where did all the brother-centric banter come from?
I don't know if I'll ever understand this schism within the SPN fanbase...
Yeah, I was at Paleyfest, and the amulet talk was very interesting... Kripke seemed to go out of his way to emphasize that they hadn't been talking about the amulet.. and while it was absolutely hilarious (One Tree Hill, ROFL) it seemed like he could have been trying to distract us, and keep a plot piece hidden...
ReplyDeleteOr, of course, they really hadn't been thinking about it at all... but one thing is for sure... If they hadn't been, they are now, and it could get worked in to the next season *fingers crossed*
I think that Dean's entire life being about saving Sam makes it a tragedy and a farce. I also rather resent it making Dean a failure when a lot of what Sam's problems stem from Sam. Make Sam either save himself or have Dean realize that saving Sam is just enabling Sam to both disrespect him and not grow up.
ReplyDeleteYeah, sure, if you're a Sam fan then it's gold. If you're interested in other characters, not so much.
ReplyDeleteNot really. Sam's pretty happy all by himself.
ReplyDeleteI very much agree with you that his one storyline has been pretty shortshrifted and that too much of his screentime has been worrying about Sam and that makes him a supporting character. So, yeah, it's also been frustrating to hear nothing about Dean.
ReplyDeleteNo, really no. If Sam has powers, they're not Dean's powers. When Sam has a new demon girlfriend, it's not Dean's new demon girlfriend. When Sam gets vesseled by Lucifer, it doesn't mean that Dean got vesseled.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm the mother of the hero and I'm shown wringing my hands over him and choosing medical treatment . . . I'm still not the hero. I may be a sympathetic character but am I the hero? No.
No, that's a bad argument because it's the quality of the storylines that's key.
ReplyDeleteIf we get Dean watching Ben & Lisa happy without him for an hour while Sam has a breakdown then miraculously kills Eve, Raphael & Crowley then time-wise they may be equal but honestly, Sam got the better finale. See what I mean? And Sera and Kripke are the type of writers to pull that.
The cohesive unit thing has been said almost every season and has turned out to be a lie so I'm not putting a lot of faith in that. Or it's cohesive unit in that Sam goes bad to the point Dean gets seriously injured but Dean doesn't give up on him and that's been done to death. What's so great about Dean being the big brother when Sam yelled at him all last season for being one? It's the worst job ever.
ReplyDeleteHow could Sam get information like that? It's not like either Michael or Lucifer are that interested in talking to him but more busy trying to set him on fire.
ReplyDeleteI think that the writers are playing games. They had Sam mock Dean's experience then try to retroactively justify that mockery by making Sam's suffering worse. I'm not impressed and it actually makes me care less about Sam's suffering since I'm not seeing Sam admit that he underestimate Dean's suffering and was unsympathetic when it was HIS turn to care.
ReplyDeleteIf you are arguing that X isn't a majority, then don't assume Y is either. And also . . . Sera cut that storyline short. That's not something you see done with a really popular storyline. Also she didn't claim it was someone else's idea until it was really unpopular.
ReplyDeleteHowever, by doing better by Sam and not making it up to Dean, it actually makes things a lot worse by implying that Dean's problems aren't worth fleshing out. It's like saying Dean's problems are nothing but Sam is so important that we need to make sure that nobody tells him that he's whining while it's OK for Sam to never apologize for accusing Dean of whining.
ReplyDeleteOMG, I am FREAKING OUT!
ReplyDeleteOMG I AM FREAKING OUT!
ReplyDeleteYeah, yeah, I trust Kripke, he's great, Gamble's great. I love this show and I knew they were going to deal with this issue sometime. But now? The wall is coming DOWN this season? Oh man. Oh, Sam! Little crazy here, guess you can tell. First of all, can't wait to see it. Second of all, can't wait to see it. Third of all, give us SEASON 7!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's gearing up to be great!
ReplyDelete